Christianity against Gay People

[SimSailorNick]

What's your take on Christianity being against gay people?

[Scarface]

I am personally gay and I find It to be quite whacked out that just because of my sexual preference I am considered a (abomination). I think It's weird that they all have to be straight and commit no sins. The world Is an imperfect place and just because someone Is different they should be exalted for it? I think not. That's my perception

[Sage]

Bronze-age bonehead philosophy.

[Fruit_Tart.]

I'm catholic. purdy close to christianity. and i believe that god doesn't hate gays nor does he not love them. if he did then i believe that there would never be such a thing. i believe that god loves everyone becuz he is the one that created us and believes in us to do wat we think is right. but eh. thats jus me... :l

[Disco Jones]

I am appalled that the Jews would be so hateful of homosexuality.

[Peace God]

I'd say that 99% biblical literalists are hypocrites. There thousands of traditions that have changed since the time it was written. And do not know any christians that follow everything the bible says. I find hilarious that most anti-gay christians havent even read the bible at all and know little about it. People like Anita Bryant and the Phelps guy make me sick, they hate and often times wish death upon people like me just for being ourselves.

http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/images/smilies/twofinger.gif to all anti gay brainwashed hypocrites

[[[chickaroo92]]]

I am appalled that the Jews would be so hateful of homosexuality.

I happen to be Jewish >.< And I don't hate people based on their personality; or sexual orientation. I hate them based on their actions. Love isn't a sin in my book; therefore, YOU can love whomever you like, within reason. Don't love someone just so you can get into their pants. Anyway, the thing that really gets to me is this: If you're straight, it's perfectly fine. But if you're Gay or whatever its like.. THE WORLD IS ENDING!!! I personally hate labels. A person is a person, they shouldn't be judged by others. Only God has the power to judge. God wouldn't create people if He wouldn't approve of them... and gives them the ability of Free Will.

What's your take on Christianity being against gay people?

Look above :D

[Disco Jones]

];839286']I happen to be Jewish >.< And I don't hate people based on their personality; or sexual orientation. I hate them based on their actions. Love isn't a sin in my book; therefore, YOU can love whomever you like, within reason. Don't love someone just so you can get into their pants. Anyway, the thing that really gets to me is this: If you're straight, it's perfectly fine. But if you're Gay or whatever its like.. THE WORLD IS ENDING!!! I personally hate labels. A person is a person, they shouldn't be judged by others. Only God has the power to judge. God wouldn't create people if He wouldn't approve of them... and gives them the ability of Free Will.



Look above :D

No, that's silly. Like a reasonable, pen-minded view of individuals' lifestyles will get you anywhere in life!

[[[chickaroo92]]]

No, that's silly. Like a reasonable, pen-minded view of individuals' lifestyles will get you anywhere in life!

Huh?

I think it's nobody's business on how a person chooses to live their life. If you have a problem, then too bad. If they were "devoted" Christians; they'd love the person the same way as they love themselves. All Hell would go loose if someone who is Gay went ahead and said "BEING STRAIGHT IS A SIN. YOU SIN, YOU DIE. PERIOD." So... that's basically what these people are doing. They don't like the fact that your life is different, therefore you're a sinner. It's a bunch of cow crap if you ask me. Sorry if I'm being too rough. In fact, not all people are like that. My cousin is a christian I believe; and she has a friend who is Gay. Big deal. Seriously :/

[Raptor22]

I am christian and I dont mind gay people, they can do what they want, it doesnt effect me either way. I really dont think I need to know what your preference is, just because I have a certain fetish (such as: feet, bondage, skirts, tights, anything) doesnt mean the world needs to know. I believe the same applies to sexual preferences. I believe that gays have the same rights associated with marriage as straight couples do, but I believe calling those unions 'marriage' is wrong because marriage is a religious practice and having the government alter religious practices is wrong.

Oh, and the "Equal Rights" marriage argument bugs me. Every American has the right to 'marry' someone of the opposite sex, that's fair and its equal. Whether one chooses to partake is up to them.

Dont get me wrong, gays in unions should have the same rights (inheritance, work benefits, insurance, parental guardianship) as straight people, just dont call them 'marriages.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Dont get me wrong, gays in unions should have the same rights (inheritance, work benefits, insurance, parental guardianship) as straight people, just dont call them 'marriages.

>.<

If they shouldn't be called "marriages," then what should they be called?! If they have a signed paper; then they're legally married....

[Magus]

I'm catholic. purdy close to christianity. and i believe that god doesn't hate gays nor does he not love them. if he did then i believe that there would never be such a thing. i believe that god loves everyone becuz he is the one that created us and believes in us to do wat we think is right. but eh. thats jus me... :l

You have just ignored half of the Bible.

Sodomite and Gomorrah... does the two brings memory to you.

Now, don't deny that Christianity, Islam and Judaism ignores homosexuality.
In fact, they have the most sever action regarding man on man - Death.

The only group who are safe from the section are Transexual or 3rd Sex.
They have other rulings as well. Another whole story.

Nothing was mentioned about women humping women. But it warns men.

Do you ever think a gay men is pious to god after what he did. Never and it is impossible.

Also - The transition from a Gay to straight is another whole story. So, I will not plunge my self into them.

Call it backward; call it old fashion; call it ancient. Religion is religion. Whether you like its system or not. There are followers that compasses beyond your imagination.

[Peace God]

You have just ignored half of the Bible.
Sodomite and Gomorrah... does the two brings memory to you.

you are misinformed
god didnt destroy sodom and gomorrah because the people were gay
he did because the officials of the city created a law that banned hospitality toward strangers/travelers

[Evermore]

Christianity doesn't hate homosexuals. It's very depressing the example some christians set for all of christianity. They seem to be more focused on rules then on loving people unconditionally. Jesus saved a prostitutes life. His disciples were liars, cheats, and poor meager fishermen. Even if homosexuality is immoral(which is debatable). You should sooner give your life for them then hate them if you're trying to live like christ.

[Magus]

you are misinformed
god didnt destroy sodom and gomorrah because the people were gay
he did because the officials of the city created a law that banned hospitality toward strangers/travelers

I'd like to have internet articles as a back up.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

How about we look at the Bible itself.

[Peace God]

I'd like to have internet articles as a back up.

Let Me Google That For You (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sodom+and+gomorrah+sin)

or

];839538']How about we look at the Bible itself.

or

Movie: For the Bible Tells Me So (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0912583/) (2007)

feel free to choose one

[Raptor22]

];839402']>.<

If they shouldn't be called "marriages," then what should they be called?! If they have a signed paper; then they're legally married....

Domestic legal unions, legal partnerships, any euphemism would work, the government tends to be quite good at coming up with them.

I am personally gay and I find It to be quite whacked out that just because of my sexual preference I am considered a (abomination). I think It's weird that they all have to be straight and commit no sins. The world Is an imperfect place and just because someone Is different they should be exalted for it? I think not. That's my perception

Well there are two different genders for a reason haha, if everyone was gay then we would all die out pretty damn fast. :P

[The Batman]

Why should it be changed just because Christians don't like it? That's why we have separation of church and state(which should be implemented more) so just because one religious group doesn't like it, other people wont' have to suffer because of it.

[Null]

Gays never hurt anyone, Nuff said. (im atheist)

[Shadoukun]

Our take means nothing. They're against it, what do you want me to say about it?

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Why should it be changed just because Christians don't like it? That's why we have separation of church and state(which should be implemented more) so just because one religious group doesn't like it, other people wont' have to suffer because of it.

Exactly. Also, this is the "land of the free..." So where the Heck is the person's freedom on HOW they WANT to live?!

Gays never hurt anyone, Nuff said. (im atheist)

Being Atheist has nothing to do with it, I don't think. But, I agree... They're people, not a friggen animal!

Domestic legal unions, legal partnerships, any euphemism would work, the government tends to be quite good at coming up with them.



Well there are two different genders for a reason haha, if everyone was gay then we would all die out pretty damn fast. :P

Yeah. BUUUT... They got documents saying that they had a legalized marriage. You can't take that right away from them. Legal partnerships is like for people who ARE NOT married; yet live together.

So what? A person chooses what gender they want to be... And they're all going to Heaven. So complain to God then :rolleyes:

Let Me Google That For You (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sodom+and+gomorrah+sin)

or



or

Movie: For the Bible Tells Me So (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0912583/) (2007)

feel free to choose one

I'm just saying. If people want to know what REALLY happened, then read the good ole' testament :P

[CaptainObvious]

The only group who are safe from the section are Transexual or 3rd Sex.
They have other rulings as well. Another whole story.

You've been spending too much time paying attention to Iran's tortured Islamic jurisprudence. Transsexuals tend to be treated as badly as or worse than gays by the major religions.

I am christian and I dont mind gay people, they can do what they want, it doesnt effect me either way. I really dont think I need to know what your preference is, just because I have a certain fetish (such as: feet, bondage, skirts, tights, anything) doesnt mean the world needs to know. I believe the same applies to sexual preferences. I believe that gays have the same rights associated with marriage as straight couples do, but I believe calling those unions 'marriage' is wrong because marriage is a religious practice and having the government alter religious practices is wrong.

Marriage is no longer a strictly religious practice, and to argue so is illegitimate. Marriage is now a civil ceremony, and insofar as that is true, gay people deserve equal access to it. If marriage were actually something engaged in by only a few devout religious adherents your argument would have credence, but marriage is not that, and therefore your argument falls rather short.

Oh, and the "Equal Rights" marriage argument bugs me. Every American has the right to 'marry' someone of the opposite sex, that's fair and its equal. Whether one chooses to partake is up to them.

That's a little bit ridiculous. That's like making a law banning having skin darker than a certain tone, and then pointing out that white people are equally constrained by the law to have white skin as black people would be to have white skin, and therefore the law respects equality. That's not how it works: the incidence of the burden of the law is entirely unequal upon different groups in such a hypothetical situation, as it is in a law banning gay marriage. For that reason, it is unjustifiable just as banning gay marriage is unjustifiable

Anyways, it is a shame that major religions have so much institutionalized homophobia. But that's far from the only ridiculously stupid thing that adherents of the major religions believe, so what can you do?

[Atonement]

So many things in Christianity are taken out of context of the Bible when people use them to hate. Such as Homosexuality. In the day, homosexuality and lusting for a man was a ritualistic Pagan cermony in which men would have ritualistic sex with eachother and such. Taken so far out of context. These misconceptions of the truth that the Bible reads is what messes up Christians perspective. Many many many times there are straight up mistakes in translation. No, because so many people believe that the Bible is flawless, I disagree, it was written by man. They believe that God wouldn't allow the Bible to be wrong, especially for the length of time it has been. No, we're human, we make mistakes, and God watches over us, but by no means do I believe he would specifically intervene.
Homosexuality as a sin is simply a common misconception throughout the church.

[Raptor22]

You've been spending too much time paying attention to Iran's tortured Islamic jurisprudence. Transsexuals tend to be treated as badly as or worse than gays by the major religions.



Marriage is no longer a strictly religious practice, and to argue so is illegitimate. Marriage is now a civil ceremony, and insofar as that is true, gay people deserve equal access to it. If marriage were actually something engaged in by only a few devout religious adherents your argument would have credence, but marriage is not that, and therefore your argument falls rather short.

Well it was derived from a religious practice and still instituted as such in the majority of cases. And since it was derived from a religious practice, government alteration of that practice would be an insult to the people that practice the institution the correct way. Wouldn't that insinuate that billions of people have been doing it wrong for the past, I dunno, 2000 years?

That's a little bit ridiculous. That's like making a law banning having skin darker than a certain tone, and then pointing out that white people are equally constrained by the law to have white skin as black people would be to have white skin, and therefore the law respects equality. That's not how it works: the incidence of the burden of the law is entirely unequal upon different groups in such a hypothetical situation, as it is in a law banning gay marriage. For that reason, it is unjustifiable just as banning gay marriage is unjustifiable

The problem is, in everyone is one gender or the other, meaning everyone applies. Its not like someone is not either male or female and does not have the choice to marry someone of the opposite gender. Your analogy makes it seem like they are outlawing one gender or the other which is not the case, it doesnt really apply here.

Anyways, it is a shame that major religions have so much institutionalized homophobia. But that's far from the only ridiculously stupid thing that adherents of the major religions believe, so what can you do?

Historically homophobia made sense. Consider this:

In a small community of followers of a single religion, the more people that made babies ensured the survival of the community. The more homosexuals there are in the community lowers the chance of survival considering that they are not bearing offspring. So by putting such a taboo on homosexual activity they are securing a future for the sect. However, that does not make much sense today since the world is overpopulated. Perhaps it worked a little too well.


Responses in red, again.

[Peace God]

Well it was derived from a religious practice and still instituted as such in the majority of cases.
so there's already exceptions but gay people cant be another one?
And since it was derived from a religious practice, government alteration of that practice would be an insult to the people that practice the institution the correct way.
go ahead and feel insulted but it doesnt affect you
and it doesnt matter what the govt does to it, church and state are SEPARATED
Wouldn't that insinuate that billions of people have been doing it wrong for the past, I dunno, 2000 years?
of course not... they wouldn't be banning opposite sex marriage

maybe im just stupid but i have a few questions for people against gay marriage:
why wouldnt it be ok for two gays to get married if their religion allowed gay marriage?
and
edit: and if you claim it is only a religious practice... why are atheists allowed to get married?

[Evermore]

maybe im just stupid but i have a few questions for people against gay marriage:
why wouldnt it be ok for two gays to get married if their religion allowed gay marriage?
and
why are atheists allowed to get married?[/QUOTE]

In christians who take a stance against gay marriage's opinion the gays religion doesn't matter because its not the true religion. The rule is against same sex marriages. Not religion. Someone who's budhist can get married, someone whos pagan can get married, so someone whos aethiest can get married.

On the subject matter of christians and homosexuals. My stance is this. The bible only refers to homosexuality a few times and somewhat vaguely. It can be taken out of context, poorly translated, and debated.
But since God only put a few vague things in there about it it's obviously not as important. God clearly explains over and over and over again that we should love each other more then we love ourselves. Clearly thats more important. I'll leave it up to God to do the judge-ing and i'll just accept everyone whether black, aethiest, gay, or power hungry psychopaths. *cough* obama *cough*

[Peace God]

In christians who take a stance against gay marriage's opinion the gays religion doesn't matter because its not the true religion. The rule is against same sex marriages. Not religion. Someone who's budhist can get married, someone whos pagan can get married, so someone whos aethiest can get married.
i should of been more specific.. i was addressing the people who claimed "marriage" is solely a religious practice

[Evermore]

i should of been more specific.. i was addressing the people who claimed "marriage" is solely a religious practice

Ahh, ok. Well that's bull shit.

[xiaozi]

Look, Christians aren't supposed to try to change people who don't believe in Christ. Now, if a man says he is a Christian but still sleeps around (with girls OR guys) it's other Christians responsibility to confront him.

If he's not a believer it's Christians responsibility to love him regardless of how he lives. Hate never changed anyone.

This is how it SHOULD be, not how it is. And it pisses me off too.

[Raptor22]

so there's already exceptions but gay people cant be another one?

go ahead and feel insulted but it doesnt affect you
and it doesnt matter what the govt does to it, church and state are SEPARATED

of course not... they wouldn't be banning opposite sex marriage

maybe im just stupid but i have a few questions for people against gay marriage:
why wouldnt it be ok for two gays to get married if their religion allowed gay marriage?
and
edit: and if you claim it is only a religious practice... why are atheists allowed to get married?

Right but it is not the governments job to dictate what the correct way of performing religious ceremonies.

[SafeAuto]

When it comes to this topic, I usually choke. The Old Testament is filled with horrible, immoral actions that God either commanded or did directly. However, the New Testament seems to be a complete opposite of that; salvation is now by grace not law.

Another puzzling question is why would God wire somebody to like something that he finds an abomination. God wouldn't do something like that, but I can't think of any reason why somebody would choose to be a homosexual.

God did however create reproduction to be between a man and a woman...

I continue to search for answers, ever more.

[Peace God]

it is not the governments job to dictate what the correct way of performing religious ceremonies.
you almost have it... just switch government and religion in the sentence

[Evermore]

When it comes to this topic, I usually choke. The Old Testament is filled with horrible, immoral actions that God either commanded or did directly. However, the New Testament seems to be a complete opposite of that; salvation is now by grace not law.

Another puzzling question is why would God wire somebody to like something that he finds an abomination. God wouldn't do something like that, but I can't think of any reason why somebody would choose to be a homosexual.

God did however create reproduction to be between a man and a woman...

I continue to search for answers, ever more.

The belief is that its a choice and he did not make them that way. It happens more often in people who were raised by a woman, someone who only has a sister or people who have abusive/negligent fathers. The idea is that they need love from the same sex since they didnt get it growing up and romantically/sexually is the only/best way to get it. Vice versa for women.
Getting sexually abused is also said to be a cause of homosexuality. Rebellion to overly conservative parents is another said cause. Those are what plants the homosexual urge in most cases. Then they either force themselves to stay straight, come out of the closet as gay, decide to be bi, or whatever.
It's just a belief. A widely accepted belief as well. Just as widely accepted as the belief that you are born gay.

[Jean Poutine]

why so angry

why don't you guys talk about something else for a change? we really need a hundred topics dissecting the evils of christianity and modern religion as a whole.

bruce lee had it right, take out what's shit and keep the good stuff. now shut up and enjoy your spirituality without being binded by some millenias-old book that is mostly irrelevent in today's society.

[Evermore]

I agree, we need some other non-christianity threads to discuss. I am getting sick of it.

[The Batman]

If you don't like Christian threads don't post in them just ignore them guys you aren't contributing to the topic. So let's get back on topic.

[CaptainObvious]

Well it was derived from a religious practice and still instituted as such in the majority of cases. And since it was derived from a religious practice, government alteration of that practice would be an insult to the people that practice the institution the correct way. Wouldn't that insinuate that billions of people have been doing it wrong for the past, I dunno, 2000 years?

Maybe some people would take it as an insult. They shouldn't, but maybe they would. However, that is not an argument against anything. What marriage was is not relevant to what it is: a civil ceremony that by principles of nondiscrimination ought to be available to a couple composed of any combination of sexes. Most religious people in the Western world wouldn't even disagree with this idea; however, even if they do the fact that one has religious beliefs does not rise to the level of rationale to allow government discrimination in what is no longer a religious ceremony.

The problem is, in everyone is one gender or the other, meaning everyone applies. Its not like someone is not either male or female and does not have the choice to marry someone of the opposite gender. Your analogy makes it seem like they are outlawing one gender or the other which is not the case, it doesnt really apply here.

Actually, nowadays, everyone is not one gender or another, though that's sort of peripheral to the argument. Furthermore, you point out that people can marry someone of the opposite gender. Well indeed they can; similarly, people with dark skin could go through the painful process of bleaching their skin and they wouldn't have a problem in my hypothetical scenario (or maybe we make it a law against showing dark skin, and then they could just all wear Niqabs!). The point is that a very specific segment of the population is denied the right to marry who they wish, and that burden is laid entirely upon them; thus, it is unequal. Your arguments otherwise are the kind of classically illegitimate reasoning that led the Supreme Court to force the end of segregation; similar arguments were made in those cases and dismissed as still being clearly instruments of inequality.

Right but it is not the governments job to dictate what the correct way of performing religious ceremonies.

This is precisely your problem. Marriage is not a religious ceremony any more. If you want to argue that the word "marriage" should stop being used by the government, and everyone should get a civil union, with those who desire a religious marriage being able to obtain one from their place of worship without any special government recognition, I will agree with you. But once the government specially recognizes a ceremony, whether it was religious or not is irrelevant and it must conform to all standards of nondiscrimination that apply to governments. To argue otherwise is entirely inconsistent.

[axedry]

Christianity isn't against Gay People, the Vatican is (:, and trust me its bad for them to think they can influence the Christian population :/

[Raptor22]

Maybe some people would take it as an insult. They shouldn't, but maybe they would. However, that is not an argument against anything. What marriage was is not relevant to what it is: a civil ceremony that by principles of nondiscrimination ought to be available to a couple composed of any combination of sexes. Most religious people in the Western world wouldn't even disagree with this idea; however, even if they do the fact that one has religious beliefs does not rise to the level of rationale to allow government discrimination in what is no longer a religious ceremony.



Actually, nowadays, everyone is not one gender or another, though that's sort of peripheral to the argument. Furthermore, you point out that people can marry someone of the opposite gender. Well indeed they can; similarly, people with dark skin could go through the painful process of bleaching their skin and they wouldn't have a problem in my hypothetical scenario (or maybe we make it a law against showing dark skin, and then they could just all wear Niqabs!). The point is that a very specific segment of the population is denied the right to marry who they wish, and that burden is laid entirely upon them; thus, it is unequal. Your arguments otherwise are the kind of classically illegitimate reasoning that led the Supreme Court to force the end of segregation; similar arguments were made in those cases and dismissed as still being clearly instruments of inequality.



This is precisely your problem. Marriage is not a religious ceremony any more. If you want to argue that the word "marriage" should stop being used by the government, and everyone should get a civil union, with those who desire a religious marriage being able to obtain one from their place of worship without any special government recognition, I will agree with you. But once the government specially recognizes a ceremony, whether it was religious or not is irrelevant and it must conform to all standards of nondiscrimination that apply to governments. To argue otherwise is entirely inconsistent.

Actually I wouldnt be against the government ceasing use of the term "marriage" considering it was derived from religious traditions.

And yes everyone is born either biologically a man, or biologically a woman. Everyone has the decision to "marry" an individual of the opposite gender. Your argument doesnt make sense.

As an extention, could I then be able to marry my cat? My dog? My pickup truck? A book? Someone deceased? An infant? My favorite pair of jeans? Opening up marriage to be a bond between anybody opens so many other doors. What about people who abuse the system? I could marry my best buddy so we can both get extra work benefits.

What about the extra strain on the court systems that have to oversee the influx of queer divorce cases? What about child issues?

[Peace God]

As an extention, could I then be able to marry my cat? My dog? My pickup truck? A book? Someone deceased? An infant? My favorite pair of jeans?
yes you should be able to marry them as long as they can say "i do" and sign the papers
and apparently human beings are the same thing as inanimate objects?
What about the extra strain on the court systems that have to oversee the influx of queer divorce cases?
HAHAHAHAHA

The Most Logical Argument Against Same-Sex Marriage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdH1ZEbnIms)

[The Batman]

As an extention, could I then be able to marry my cat? My dog? My pickup truck? A book? Someone deceased? An infant? My favorite pair of jeans?
You can't compare two consenting adults marrying to someone marrying things that can't consent so that point means nothing.
Opening up marriage to be a bond between anybody opens so many other doors. What about people who abuse the system? I could marry my best buddy so we can both get extra work benefits.
Yea like straight people don't already do that....

[pixie1234]

i think that no matter what religion you are people who are gay/lesbian/bisexual should be accepted. it is perfectly natural and dont christians say that God will forgive any sins (which they class gays/lesbians/bisexuals to be sinners or something like that) so therefore there should be no wrong about it.

one of the ten commandments is 'treat your neighbor as you would like to be treated' or something like that is it not??? xx

(please anyone of any religion please take no offence as none was meant :) )

[Wtficus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSfFa44p96o&feature=player_embedded

that is all

[Richthegamer99]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSfFa44p96o&feature=player_embedded

that is all

was that video a joke or for real??

[Raptor22]

was that video a joke or for real??

Of course its a joke, he counters all the arguments against gay marriage. I like his logic, it makes alot of sense. Its not rhetoric, its common sense. :)

[Richthegamer99]

yes you should be able to marry them as long as they can say "i do" and sign the papers
and apparently human beings are the same thing as inanimate objects?

HAHAHAHAHA

The Most Logical Argument Against Same-Sex Marriage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdH1ZEbnIms)


lol lol lol that was a fucken joke lol

[ray8806]

Alright, here it goes....lol

God loves everyone, including gay people. God has never hated, nor will he ever hate anyone. God is not of hate therefore he will not hate.

HOWEVER, according to Romans 1:26-27 and other verses, homosexuality is wrong and is sin. Everyone sins, we cannot live sinless lives. That was Christ. Nonetheless, we have to ask Christ into our hearts and be our Savior, then he takes away our sin and replaces it will joy, love-suffering, and those good things. People who do not do that, are, unfortunately, going to Hell.

One may ask, if God is so loving, then why does he send people to Hell? Well God never sends people to Hell...they send themselves. When they refuse to love God and follow his ways though he does so much for them, they make the choice to go to Hell.

Now let us combine that. So since homosexuality is a sin, those who practice it are going to Hell? Yes and no. If they do not repent and 'turn' from their ways, then yes, they are. However, we all understand that that transition would be a difficult one, and Christ helps us. With some people it is instant, others it takes longer and is a tough battle. But Christ will help us fight that battle.

Being the Christians are striving to be more like Christ, we must love everyone too. Including gay people. I have NO problem with them and I have many gay friends. As long as they don't try to force their ways on me, then I'm fine. I will pray for them, but what else can I do? Nothing except maybe talk to them about it if the Holy Ghost moves me to do so. I'm not going to walk up to them and start saying, "Your going to Hell! Repent!" and etc. No, that is terrible in many ways. That doesn't show love and compassion, that doesn't show mercy, what it does show is ignorance and intolerance. Which is not what Christ is about.

On another note, I believe homosexuality is a choice. Not something your born with. We are made in God's image, God isn't gay, so he would never make us gay either. He wouldn't make you into something that will send you to Hell because he loves everyone and wants everyone to go to Heaven. With that said, one of my points stated above would come into play as then would the homosexual person, who was dragged into that sin by their own actions, ask forgiveness. And Jesus forgives all sins, so they would be clean. However, they are expected to try to change, and Jesus, again, would help them.

Now many people will try to tell me, that homosexuality is not a choice and it is something your born with and that has been proved by many scientific minds.. Well, as I stated above, God makes us in his image and he would never make someone gay. Also, there has been no concluding evidence that there is a 'gay gene'. Doctors have theorized that there is, but there has been no evidence as such.

As always, we have to love our neighbor as someone above me said. ((And just on a side note, that statement wasn't part of the 10 Commandments. That was said by Jesus himself.)) Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean you should treat them any different, just pray for them, and love them with the mind of Christ.

With gay marriage. I am against it. Marriage is something that was made by God and should not be corrupted. I mean, people have already corrupted sex. Sex was made by God to be performed between a married couple as an expression of their love and a way for them to be able to be more like him and produce offspring. Although ultimately, God makes the person. But marriage, should be preserved. The becoming of one person, by God, through marriage, should be between a man and woman like God intended it to be.

Now civil unions where it says 'legally' they are together, that is different. That isn't the divine work that combines the spirit of a male and female. That is just saying that these to people have the rights of a married couple.

(I did start to ramble a bit, so forgive me. Also, I don't think I clarified to the best of my ability. )

[Perseus]

Alright, here it goes....lol

God loves everyone, including gay people. God has never hated, nor will he ever hate anyone. God is not of hate therefore he will not hate.

HOWEVER, according to Romans 1:26-27 and other verses, homosexuality is wrong and is sin. Everyone sins, we cannot live sinless lives. That was Christ. Nonetheless, we have to ask Christ into our hearts and be our Savior, then he takes away our sin and replaces it will joy, love-suffering, and those good things. People who do not do that, are, unfortunately, going to Hell.

One may ask, if God is so loving, then why does he send people to Hell? Well God never sends people to Hell...they send themselves. When they refuse to love God and follow his ways though he does so much for them, they make the choice to go to Hell.

Now let us combine that. So since homosexuality is a sin, those who practice it are going to Hell? Yes and no. If they do not repent and 'turn' from their ways, then yes, they are. However, we all understand that that transition would be a difficult one, and Christ helps us. With some people it is instant, others it takes longer and is a tough battle. But Christ will help us fight that battle.

Being the Christians are striving to be more like Christ, we must love everyone too. Including gay people. I have NO problem with them and I have many gay friends. As long as they don't try to force their ways on me, then I'm fine. I will pray for them, but what else can I do? Nothing except maybe talk to them about it if the Holy Ghost moves me to do so. I'm not going to walk up to them and start saying, "Your going to Hell! Repent!" and etc. No, that is terrible in many ways. That doesn't show love and compassion, that doesn't show mercy, what it does show is ignorance and intolerance. Which is not what Christ is about.

On another note, I believe homosexuality is a choice. Not something your born with. We are made in God's image, God isn't gay, so he would never make us gay either. He wouldn't make you into something that will send you to Hell because he loves everyone and wants everyone to go to Heaven. With that said, one of my points stated above would come into play as then would the homosexual person, who was dragged into that sin by their own actions, ask forgiveness. And Jesus forgives all sins, so they would be clean. However, they are expected to try to change, and Jesus, again, would help them.

Now many people will try to tell me, that homosexuality is not a choice and it is something your born with and that has been proved by many scientific minds.. Well, as I stated above, God makes us in his image and he would never make someone gay. Also, there has been no concluding evidence that there is a 'gay gene'. Doctors have theorized that there is, but there has been no evidence as such.

As always, we have to love our neighbor as someone above me said. ((And just on a side note, that statement wasn't part of the 10 Commandments. That was said by Jesus himself.)) Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean you should treat them any different, just pray for them, and love them with the mind of Christ.

With gay marriage. I am against it. Marriage is something that was made by God and should not be corrupted. I mean, people have already corrupted sex. Sex was made by God to be performed between a married couple as an expression of their love and a way for them to be able to be more like him and produce offspring. Although ultimately, God makes the person. But marriage, should be preserved. The becoming of one person, by God, through marriage, should be between a man and woman like God intended it to be.

Now civil unions where it says 'legally' they are together, that is different. That isn't the divine work that combines the spirit of a male and female. That is just saying that these to people have the rights of a married couple.

(I did start to ramble a bit, so forgive me. Also, I don't think I clarified to the best of my ability. )

By what you believe, you then choose to be straight. I never chose to be straight. I just am. My brain tells me like I like girls, so I like girls. Also, how do you know God isn't gay? I mean, I doubt he has a wife and all that. No one knows if He is or isn't. And why must your religion control whether or not someone wants to get married?

[Peace God]

God isn't gay, so he would never make us gay either.
Well, as I stated above, God makes us in his image and he would never make someone gay.
Well we've argued over this before so i'll make it shorter this time.
What makes you think that god is straight?

Marriage is something that was made by God.
:crazy:

[magikarpy]

Pansexuality: The belief that love does not know age, race, or gender.

I believe in pansexuality. I believe sexuality is always a matter of choice. Saying that there is a strand of DNA that makes someone prefer guys is like saying there's a strand of DNA that makes someone prefer fat people or asian people. How people were raised can affect this. But if someone truly wanted to stay completely straight and they had the help of friends and family. Then they could. But why would you want to?

[Peace God]

:headache:
While i do believe that a person's environment can play a minor role in bi/homosexuality, it is NOT a choice.
You don't even have to believe the countless scientific studies that prove it... you can just ASK one of us.

[magikarpy]

People lie. I simply know I choose my sexuality and many many others do. I think the belief that you can't choose is just a lack of willpower.

[Peace God]

People lie. I simply know I choose my sexuality and many many others do. I think the belief that you can't choose is just a lack of willpower.
Yeah gay people are actually straight people that choose to be treated like shit. Great theory.

[magikarpy]

Yeah gay people are actually straight people that choose to be treated like shit. Great theory.

Or straight people are actually gay people who are afraid of what others might think.

[Peace God]

Or straight people are actually gay people who are afraid of what others might think.
wouldn't that still make them gay?

[Marcie]

I'm a Christian and, I'm not against gay people. I have absolutely nothing wrong with gay people. However, I do think that having those kinds of relationships is wrong.

[dead]

I'm a Christian and, I'm not against gay people. I have absolutely nothing wrong with gay people. However, I do think that having those kinds of relationships is wrong.

If you find that kind of relationship wrong then what would you like them to do instead?

[Marcie]

If you find that kind of relationship wrong then what would you like them to do instead?

Not take part in that kind of relationship.

[dead]

Not take part in that kind of relationship.

So I assume not to have relationship at all? Tell me if i'm wrong.

[Marcie]

So I assume not to have relationship at all? Tell me if i'm wrong.

Not necessarily, a relationship with a girl is fine :P

[Peace God]

I have absolutely nothing wrong with gay people. However, I do think that having those kinds of relationships is wrong.If you find that kind of relationship wrong then what would you like them to do instead?
Not take part in that kind of relationship.

you honestly see nothing wrong with that statement?

[ray8806]

Let me start with this. I was on YouTube the other night and found a talk show host, forgot who it was, who had people who literally though they were REAL vampires on the show. Are you kidding me?!? There is no such thing as a vampire with supernatural powers and such as they were trying to display. They are just people who have that mind set and thought they were, and so they chose to believe it and now 'are'. <----not all of this pertains to what I'm going to say.

Gay peoples, are NOT born gay. Everyone is born straight. People choose to be gay(That is for the guy who said something like "Did I choose to be straight?"). With that said, there could be many reasons why they chose to be gay. Could be attention, could be peer pressure(One gay guy at my school said he turned gay b/c people kept calling him that and believed it. He wasn't born that way, just he chose to believe what people called him), could be their self esteem toward getting a girlfriend was low and though a guy would be easier, IDK. Could be ANYTHING. But ultimately, something happened that put them into a situation where they began to think, "Well maybe I'm gay." But then that turned into, "I am gay." They chose to take that upon themselves.

The reason why a gay person would put themselves in that 'horrible' situation is quite simple...or maybe it is complicated. Depends on who you are.

One thing, I don't think it is a 'horrible' situation. No one in my school who are gay are ridiculed, and personally I have never seen a gay person ridiculed more than anyone who is 'different' from the norm. That is the only reason, but it isn't any different.

Just like gothic people, they are 'ridiculed' for what they choose to be. But not any more than the norm and they gets used to it.

Not don't get me wrong, I think ridiculing anyone is very shameful and wrong. It should never be done, but it is mainly done by those who have a low self esteem or are just plain jerks.

In my opinion, homosexual are no different than the two examples above. They just aren't 'normal' so people 'ridicule' them. It's nothing personal, just because they want to be different.

[Jean Poutine]

you honestly see nothing wrong with that statement?

no?

homosexuality in itself isn't a sin, it's the act that is.

fight the temptation etc etc.

[Perseus]

Let me start with this. I was on YouTube the other night and found a talk show host, forgot who it was, who had people who literally though they were REAL vampires on the show. Are you kidding me?!? There is no such thing as a vampire with supernatural powers and such as they were trying to display. They are just people who have that mind set and thought they were, and so they chose to believe it and now 'are'. <----not all of this pertains to what I'm going to say.

Gay peoples, are NOT born gay. Everyone is born straight. People choose to be gay(That is for the guy who said something like "Did I choose to be straight?"). With that said, there could be many reasons why they chose to be gay. Could be attention, could be peer pressure(One gay guy at my school said he turned gay b/c people kept calling him that and believed it. He wasn't born that way, just he chose to believe what people called him), could be their self esteem toward getting a girlfriend was low and though a guy would be easier, IDK. Could be ANYTHING. But ultimately, something happened that put them into a situation where they began to think, "Well maybe I'm gay." But then that turned into, "I am gay." They chose to take that upon themselves.

The reason why a gay person would put themselves in that 'horrible' situation is quite simple...or maybe it is complicated. Depends on who you are.

One thing, I don't think it is a 'horrible' situation. No one in my school who are gay are ridiculed, and personally I have never seen a gay person ridiculed more than anyone who is 'different' from the norm. That is the only reason, but it isn't any different.

Just like gothic people, they are 'ridiculed' for what they choose to be. But not any more than the norm and they gets used to it.

Not don't get me wrong, I think ridiculing anyone is very shameful and wrong. It should never be done, but it is mainly done by those who have a low self esteem or are just plain jerks.

In my opinion, homosexual are no different than the two examples above. They just aren't 'normal' so people 'ridicule' them. It's nothing personal, just because they want to be different.

Y'know why they think that? Because they're low on iron and think drinking blood will help them.

[dead]

Let me start with this. I was on YouTube the other night and found a talk show host, forgot who it was, who had people who literally though they were REAL vampires on the show. Are you kidding me?!? There is no such thing as a vampire with supernatural powers and such as they were trying to display. They are just people who have that mind set and thought they were, and so they chose to believe it and now 'are'. <----not all of this pertains to what I'm going to say.

Gay peoples, are NOT born gay. Everyone is born straight. People choose to be gay(That is for the guy who said something like "Did I choose to be straight?"). With that said, there could be many reasons why they chose to be gay. Could be attention, could be peer pressure(One gay guy at my school said he turned gay b/c people kept calling him that and believed it. He wasn't born that way, just he chose to believe what people called him), could be their self esteem toward getting a girlfriend was low and though a guy would be easier, IDK. Could be ANYTHING. But ultimately, something happened that put them into a situation where they began to think, "Well maybe I'm gay." But then that turned into, "I am gay." They chose to take that upon themselves.

The reason why a gay person would put themselves in that 'horrible' situation is quite simple...or maybe it is complicated. Depends on who you are.

One thing, I don't think it is a 'horrible' situation. No one in my school who are gay are ridiculed, and personally I have never seen a gay person ridiculed more than anyone who is 'different' from the norm. That is the only reason, but it isn't any different.

Just like gothic people, they are 'ridiculed' for what they choose to be. But not any more than the norm and they gets used to it.

Not don't get me wrong, I think ridiculing anyone is very shameful and wrong. It should never be done, but it is mainly done by those who have a low self esteem or are just plain jerks.

In my opinion, homosexual are no different than the two examples above. They just aren't 'normal' so people 'ridicule' them. It's nothing personal, just because they want to be different.

So your saying if you make yourself believe that you are gay, you'll then be attracted to Males?

[ray8806]

I'm saying, it's not something you are born with. And yes, you can make yourself gay. For example: If a completely straight guy, who is at the moment, thinks homosexuality is gross and makes him sick. If he says, "I want to be gay." Well then, he can 'make' himself so. He can start 'looking; at guys, at first he may not like it, but it will begin to grow on him. Then he can move further and further into it, and eventually, he will be completely gay and not like anything about females at all even.

You know those elegant foods that are delicacies? Well some are 'acquired' tastes. Some people will like the food more at first, but others won't. But eventually, once you eat enough of it you begin to like it. An 'acquired' taste. That person made the decision to like that food, eventually they did. Whether it took a long time or not, depends on the person.

[dead]

I'm saying, it's not something you are born with. And yes, you can make yourself gay. For example: If a completely straight guy, who is at the moment, thinks homosexuality is gross and makes him sick. If he says, "I want to be gay." Well then, he can 'make' himself so. He can start 'looking; at guys, at first he may not like it, but it will begin to grow on him. Then he can move further and further into it, and eventually, he will be completely gay and not like anything about females at all even.

You know those elegant foods that are delicacies? Well some are 'acquired' tastes. Some people will like the food more at first, but others won't. But eventually, once you eat enough of it you begin to like it. An 'acquired' taste. That person made the decision to like that food, eventually they did. Whether it took a long time or not, depends on the person.

Your funny.

[Disco Jones]

I'd be interested in knowing what you have to back this up, Ray. I don't mean that against you, I'd really like to know. I wouldn't think sexual preference would work the same way as taste in food.

[L]

in my opinion, its the religious fanatics that judge people based on their sexuality that should be judged.. i mean they have some messed up morals.

[Tankinx91]

Your funny.

Second.

[Hollywood]

It seems like Christians enjoy molding their religion into what they want it to be. Nothing in the Bible says "Thou shalt not be gay". In my opinion, you should be able to date and/or marry the person you love, wether they are the same sex or not.

[Disco Jones]

It seems like Christians enjoy molding their religion into what they want it to be. Nothing in the Bible says "Thou shalt not be gay". In my opinion, you should be able to date and/or marry the person you love, wether they are the same sex or not.

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.(Leviticus 18:22 KJV)

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.(Leviticus 20:13 KJV)

[Hollywood]

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.(Leviticus 18:22 KJV)

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.(Leviticus 20:13 KJV)


That dosen't change my views. Why is homosexuality an abomination? Does this mean that god does not love homosexuals?

I've seen a million photos of "Christian rallies" with Christian people holding up picket signs saying "God hates Gays". I'm pretty sure god says he loves all of his children equally.

[Mattasaur94]

Bah.
I was raised as a Christian, by my parents.
When I was given the freedom of choice I left.
I think it's really stupid, some people I know are incredibly nice and their gay, I don't see why "they" should be branded and labelled and shunned from society, people don't have to like it, they don't have to be confortable with it... They just have to be able to accept that some people like people of the same gender. What of it?

Annd... Satanism FTW...
Massive change to Christianity, but I prefer this. I embrace the fact, now, that I am a human, I'll live my life as I want, not fearing god, for the only powers he has over me is through death, and when your dead you can't do much about it, can you?
So I'll live my life to it's fullest, I accept people, because people shouldn't be shunned for who or what they are.

[Apparitions]

First off I hate organised religion so I might as well get that out the way. I think that religion should have nothing to do with peoples sexuality and some of the things that Christians say about gay people is saddening. This is one of the main reasons I dislike religion so much. People should be allowed to be attracted to whoever they want. How can people who don't have sex (priests) tell people who do have sex who to have it with and how to do it?!

[Disco Jones]

That dosen't change my views. Why is homosexuality an abomination? Does this mean that god does not love homosexuals?

I've seen a million photos of "Christian rallies" with Christian people holding up picket signs saying "God hates Gays". I'm pretty sure god says he loves all of his children equally.

It wasn't meant to, I'm just saying that intolerance of homosexuality does actually have clear roots in the Old Testament and isn't molded out of nowhere.

[Hollywood]

It wasn't meant to, I'm just saying that intolerance of homosexuality does actually have clear roots in the Old Testament and isn't molded out of nowhere.

I understand that, but that dosen't make it right to treat homosexuals different than others. They're people too.

[Death]

Not necessarily, a relationship with a girl is fine :P

So it's okay to have a heterosexual and a lesbian relationship but gay (male) ones are not okay? Care to elaborate on why?

It wasn't meant to, I'm just saying that intolerance of homosexuality does actually have clear roots in the Old Testament and isn't molded out of nowhere.

Yes, it has roots, in one of the most fucked up bits of the Bible that you will ever encounter. If I put up a sign saying that wearing glasses is wrong, is it right for people to then discriminate against those with glasses and say that it's right because it has 'roots' (the sign)? Of course not. Same principle here.

I don't have a problem with religious people, but I do if it has ended up warping their mind into believing homophobic bigotry. Remember, the old testament is over 5000 years old. Is it really that reliable and applicable to today?

[deadpie]

>How dare people be in love with the same sex and show happiness together. That's so evil and they should all go to hell. Believing in love and happiness is totally alright if it's not with the same sex, because then it's just pure evil.

also sage

[2D]

So it's okay to have a heterosexual and a lesbian relationship but gay (male) ones are not okay? Care to elaborate on why?

Pretty sure you could figure out what he meant, oh well.

Yes, it has roots, in one of the most fucked up bits of the Bible that you will ever encounter. If I put up a sign saying that wearing glasses is wrong, is it right for people to then discriminate against those with glasses and say that it's right because it has 'roots' (the sign)? Of course not. Same principle here.

I don't have a problem with religious people, but I do if it has ended up warping their mind into believing homophobic bigotry. Remember, the old testament is over 5000 years old. Is it really that reliable and applicable to today?

>Implying you had anyone to debate with

[Death]

Pretty sure you could figure out what he meant, oh well.

Well why didn't Marcie say what he meant?



>Implying you had anyone to debate with

What do you mean? We're on a debate forum, right?

[2D]

Well why didn't Marcie say what he meant?

Deciphering is a useful skill.

What do you mean? We're on a debate forum, right?

You were arguing with people who had the same viewpoint, that's pretty useless.

[Perseus]

Well why didn't Marcie say what he meant?







Wow dude, can't you read between the lines?

[Death]

Yes I can thank you very much. It would just be better if people posted in such a way (or correctly depending on their thoughts) so that I didn't have to. Or at least I would view it as such.

Besides, if I had to start 'deciphering' everything that people say instead of just taking everything they say as their belief, it could lead to inaccuracies and mistakes.

EDIT: Regardless, I was actually just trying to get Marcie to elaborate on why she believes that homosexuality is wrong simply because both lovers are of the same gender.

[Vutra92]

I ignore that part. I think that the bible is just like a constitution...a good guide but a bit outdated.

[Death]

Thing though, if you are ignoring the bad parts of the bible, then you will be surprised at exactly how much you are ignoring. This would make me at least question how good the bible is as a guide. Admittedly, most of the bad scriptures are in the old testament.

[Vutra92]

Thing though, if you are ignoring the bad parts of the bible, then you will be surprised at exactly how much you are ignoring. This would make me at least question how good the bible is as a guide. Admittedly, most of the bad scriptures are in the old testament.

Its not the bad part its the just part where social norms of the time were made into law with no foresight for how those norms would change in the future.

[Death]

But to us, that part is very bad. But yes, I see where you're coming from in that 'bad' is a subjective term.

[MacMilker]

I'm catholic. purdy close to christianity. and i believe that god doesn't hate gays nor does he not love them. if he did then i believe that there would never be such a thing. i believe that god loves everyone becuz he is the one that created us and believes in us to do wat we think is right. but eh. thats jus me... :l

couldnt of said it any better myself. completely agreed.

Why would we be here? God created all of us, and loves all of us because we are his creation. Why would the love of one of his creations be a sin?

But eh. thats just me ahah (:

[Death]

Why would we be here? God created all of us, and loves all of us because we are his creation. Why would the love of one of his creations be a sin?:

Because he said so in the bible, unless the bible is wrong? Oh, and how did God create you if you came from your mother?

[Jess]

I was a Christian (not anymore now) but I was never against homosexuals. never

[Death]

That's good, but there are plenty of Christians that are, simply because of their faith.

[ray8806]

To concur with Jess two posts above me...

I am a devote Christian. My faith says that homosexuality is wrong. Does that make me think any less of a homosexual? No. Not at all. They are still people, just they are sinning. Everyone sins, and we ALL have things to work with to change.

And yes, God does love ALL people. Just because something is an abomination doesn't mean that God doesn't still love the person who is committing the abomination. He loves the person, but hates the sin.

I have plenty of gay friends, I never force my religion on them and they never challenge it. It is a mutual respect. We never think any less of each other.

[Death]

So you think that homosexuals are immoral, and yet you don't care? Would you care if they did something that actually is immoral like hurt someone? Would you care then?

Another question: How can you be devoted to a homophobic bigot (don't say that he's not, otherwise he wouldn't hate homosexuality)? Another thing that I should ask is do non-human animals 'know' that homosexuality 'is wrong'? Becasue homosexuality has been found in certian species and so it is clearly natural.

[icililim]

Its true the Christian church is manly against gays. Its there view so let them have it

[Peace God]

He loves the person, but hates the sin.

But he made the sin.

[The Batman]

To concur with Jess two posts above me...

I am a devote Christian. My faith says that homosexuality is wrong. Does that make me think any less of a homosexual? No. Not at all. They are still people, just they are sinning. Everyone sins, and we ALL have things to work with to change.

And yes, God does love ALL people. Just because something is an abomination doesn't mean that God doesn't still love the person who is committing the abomination. He loves the person, but hates the sin.

I have plenty of gay friends, I never force my religion on them and they never challenge it. It is a mutual respect. We never think any less of each other.

What you're doing is taking things from thousands of years ago and trying to relate them to us. Homosexuality is not a sin it was an indecent act back then because it was not understood. So using religion to deny someone rights isn't a good reason especially when you don't understand it yourself.

[Atonement]

The mentions of homosexuality in the Bible were directed toward all men. It is very closely related to the story of "spilling the seed" if you know that story, it was bad to waste the potential creation of a child. In those time, Jews were to procreate, all the time. To have a period was to waste time in having children and literally women were punished. Now, we have plenty of people, we don't need more, thus, to use our semen for something other than procreation is no longer a problem.

[The Dark Lord]

Christianity IS against gay people christians AREN'T this week the head of the catholic church in scotland issued a letter saying that civil partnerships should never be equal with marriage. It for the hypocracy of the catholic church that caused me to become an athesis

[Death]

I think it's the hypocrisy and internal contradictory throughout the bible and many other believers that make several people atheists (as well as the logical flaws).

[Asylum]

i think it's wrong that any religion can be against love. thye accept hate and killng (the crusades) also child molesting (the recent cover up with the pope) .. but not love? God said tha love ok. i see as long as it is love then i'm ok with it.

[BeautifulDisaster]

I'm gay.
I never chose to be gay.
You don't choose to be straight, bisexual, or gay.
Just as someone is born with brown eyes, or blue eyes, people are born straight, gay, etc.
It's not about lack of willpower.
You can't run from who you are.
It'll bite you pretty hard if you try to run from it somewhere down the line.
People who are gay/bisexual can't control that, it's who they are inside, they can't help that, they should not be hated or discriminated or be considered less of a person or ashamed of or thought of as being a sinner because they are gay/bisexual, which is, ultimately, who they are, just as those who are straight, that's who they are.

It's really shallow & closed minded how people think in such ways about those who like the same gender.
Makes me sad to be a part of this society.

[Death]

This is exactly how I feel on the subject. The very thought that there are actually those out there that say that homosexuality, whether the being or the act, is wrong disgusts me, and anyone else who's judgment has not been clouded by homophobia. One should never have to suppress their sexuality, no matter what the bible might say.

[The Dark Lord]

I think that christianity has become hypocritical and outdated- particularly regarding gay rights. religion as a whole is an analogue idea in a digital world. People are within their rights to choose to be gay and no one has the right to judge them. The church is ostracizing itself and will result in more and more people turning their backs on religion if they don't modernise into the 21st century

[ray8806]

I think that christianity has become hypocritical and outdated- particularly regarding gay rights. religion as a whole is an analogue idea in a digital world. People are within their rights to choose to be gay and no one has the right to judge them. The church is ostracizing itself and will result in more and more people turning their backs on religion if they don't modernise into the 21st century

I find it funny how you had to say 'Christianity' when Islam, Judaism, Taoism, the Romans, Sikhism, and many other religions deem homosexuality as 'wrong' or 'unnatural'. (I use the quotations for using wrong as in the lesser sense of the word in these two cases.)

Christianity is just ONE of the many religions around this planet that takes a stance against homosexuality. Everyone of them says that it is a choice. Now, would I trust almost EVERY religions in this world? Or inconclusive scientific 'evidence' that says the 'gay gene' is still theory and has yet to be proven. Many scientists and biologics actually reject the 'gay gene' theory.

1) William Byne, stated the his evidence was inconclusive and any 'differences' between chemical make-up of homosexuals compared to heterosexuals is not significant in any way.

2) Daryl Bem, a social psychologist at Cornell University, has theorized that the influence of biological factors on sexual orientation may be mediated by experiences in childhood. (Not how they are born)

3) Psychology professor J. Michael Bailey posited that a 'germ theory' did not necessarily mean homosexuality was a disease.

4) Simon LeVay studied four groups of neurons in the hypothalamus(the part of the brain that 'determines' homosexual), called INAH1, INAH2, INAH3 and INAH4. LeVay found no evidence for a difference between the groups in the size of INAH1, INAH2 or INAH4 and virtually none in the INAH3 neuron.

[Peace God]

Now, would I trust almost EVERY religions in this world? Or inconclusive scientific 'evidence'
So you would choose to trust something really old based on dogma, superstition and unquestioning faith rather than something that is constantly being questioned, revised and improved?
The psychological and scientific communities come to their conclusions through constant experimenting and debating. Most religious groups come to their conclusions because of superstition like the idea that wasting sperm is bad. You are putting your trust in people that say "I'm right because i said so and if you dont believe me...I Kill You!" vs people that say "i dont know... lets go find out".

that says the 'gay gene' is still theory and has yet to be proven. Many scientists and biologics actually reject the 'gay gene' theory.

1) William Byne, stated the his evidence was inconclusive and any 'differences' between chemical make-up of homosexuals compared to heterosexuals is not significant in any way.

2) Daryl Bem, a social psychologist at Cornell University, has theorized that the influence of biological factors on sexual orientation may be mediated by experiences in childhood. (Not how they are born)

3) Psychology professor J. Michael Bailey posited that a 'germ theory' did not necessarily mean homosexuality was a disease.

4) Simon LeVay studied four groups of neurons in the hypothalamus(the part of the brain that 'determines' homosexual), called INAH1, INAH2, INAH3 and INAH4. LeVay found no evidence for a difference between the groups in the size of INAH1, INAH2 or INAH4 and virtually none in the INAH3 neuron.
Nice try but none of this says that genetics doesnt play a factor in nor does it imply that people make a conscious choice to be gay.

But here's your biggest mistake...even if i somehow agreed that homosexuals make a conscious choice to be gay....How does that make it a bad thing?

[Magus]

i think it's wrong that any religion can be against love. thye accept hate and killng (the crusades) also child molesting (the recent cover up with the pope) .. but not love? God said tha love ok. i see as long as it is love then i'm ok with it.

Of course love is okay, but not in the form of gang raping - that's not love.

[Death]

I find it funny how you had to say 'Christianity' when Islam, Judaism, Taoism, the Romans, Sikhism, and many other religions deem homosexuality as 'wrong' or 'unnatural'.

Have you not read the topic title? It says 'Christianity against Gay People', so of course he was only talking about Christianity.

Christianity is just ONE of the many religions around this planet that takes a stance against homosexuality. Everyone of them says that it is a choice.

And that is why you get plenty of atheists in the world; the ones with enough good morality to be able to realise that what they would otherwise be following is archaic, wrong, and simply disgusting (in several places). I'm not saynig that religious people are bad, only those that follow all of their teachings literally including the bad bits.

Now, would I trust almost EVERY religions in this world? Or inconclusive scientific 'evidence' that says the 'gay gene' is still theory and has yet to be proven. Many scientists and biologics actually reject the 'gay gene' theory.

That doesn't mean that they reject homosexuality and hate it. BTW, why must people like you always deny evidence when it's thrust into your face but happily believe random texts that you read form books written thousands of years ago in a time where procreation was very important due to the woefully different and smaller society? One word: arrogance. I suppose that you're going to be saying that the world is 10,000 years old next.

[Perseus]

I find it funny how you had to say 'Christianity' when Islam, Judaism, Taoism, the Romans, Sikhism, and many other religions deem homosexuality as 'wrong' or 'unnatural'. (I use the quotations for using wrong as in the lesser sense of the word in these two cases.)

Christianity is just ONE of the many religions around this planet that takes a stance against homosexuality. Everyone of them says that it is a choice. Now, would I trust almost EVERY religions in this world? Or inconclusive scientific 'evidence' that says the 'gay gene' is still theory and has yet to be proven. Many scientists and biologics actually reject the 'gay gene' theory.



Everything is a theory until proven wrong, then a new theory is brought up. Gravity is a theory, do you not believe in that since it's a theory? Just lettin' you know.

[The Dark Lord]

I find it funny how you had to say 'Christianity' when Islam, Judaism, Taoism, the Romans, Sikhism, and many other religions deem homosexuality as 'wrong' or 'unnatural'. (I use the quotations for using wrong as in the lesser sense of the word in these two cases.)

Christianity is just ONE of the many religions around this planet that takes a stance against homosexuality. Everyone of them says that it is a choice. Now, would I trust almost EVERY religions in this world? Or inconclusive scientific 'evidence' that says the 'gay gene' is still theory and has yet to be proven. Many scientists and biologics actually reject the 'gay gene' theory.

1) William Byne, stated the his evidence was inconclusive and any 'differences' between chemical make-up of homosexuals compared to heterosexuals is not significant in any way.

2) Daryl Bem, a social psychologist at Cornell University, has theorized that the influence of biological factors on sexual orientation may be mediated by experiences in childhood. (Not how they are born)

3) Psychology professor J. Michael Bailey posited that a 'germ theory' did not necessarily mean homosexuality was a disease.

4) Simon LeVay studied four groups of neurons in the hypothalamus(the part of the brain that 'determines' homosexual), called INAH1, INAH2, INAH3 and INAH4. LeVay found no evidence for a difference between the groups in the size of INAH1, INAH2 or INAH4 and virtually none in the INAH3 neuron.

If you had read thread title you would have read "Christianity against gay people" which is presumably why I didn't refer to other religions, although I do accept that most religions are against homosexuality which is why I believe, as I stated in my original post, that religion is "a analogue concept in a digital world". You asked yourself: "Now, would I trust almost EVERY religions in this world? Or inconclusive scientific 'evidence' that says the 'gay gene' is still theory and has yet to be proven. Many scientists and biologics actually reject the 'gay gene' theory."
Now I ask you: Do you endorse outdated, homophobic and sterotypical views that the church champions? Why are your views shared by an ever decreasing number in society, while everyone else embraces homosexuality, similar to the way racial equality was embraced 100 years ago? The bible was written over 2000 years ago. It is now irrelevant. Do you live your life by a book which is as relevant in the 21st century as Harry Potter or do you judge people upon meeting them and not by outdated sterotypes? There is NOTHING wrong with homosexuality.

[ray8806]

Wow, it's funny how when people tell you not to judge people(which I haven't), other people judge you.

Did I ever say that I was one of those dogmatic persons, I don't think so.

Anyway, homosexuality is a SIN, as stated in Romans 1:27. Homosexuals, on the other hand, are NOT. God loves the people, as always. He has always loved everyone and that will never change or falter. However, he hates the sin that they indulge in. I have sinned, many times, and I will continue to because it is human nature. Homosexuals, they will sin, as it is human nature.

HOWEVER, they need to get their life right with Christ(and I am not going to go deep into that), and then Christ will help them get over their homosexual tendencies. The Bible even tells us to be weary of our emotions. If you live your life off your emotions, you will get yourself into a lot of trouble(not trouble like someone getting on to you necessarily, trouble as in bad situations as well). We have to think with a clear and sound mind, that God can give us.

The Bible, yes was written a while ago, but being that the Word IS God, and it is the Word OF God, and taking into the fact that God never changes, well it is perfectly fit for this society as well.

Christianity believes that homosexuality is wrong because God said so. Why did he say so? He made man to be with woman. Matthew 19:5. For a man is to leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife. It never said his male 'partner' or whatever the correct political term is. God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and populate the earth. If they were gay and had homosexual partners, could they do that? No. Homosexuality is unnatural. The very figure of the male and female body doesn't support homosexuality, but rather encourages heterosexual behavior.

------

All in all, I am just trying to defend why my religion thinks like it does. You have no obligation to believe in my religion and I respect that you have made your decision. That is about as far as we can go. I don't care what you believe, and I am sure that you say the same thing about me. Christians don't HATE homosexuals, as a matter of fact, I have many homosexual friends. I just do not condone what they do, but they are still very good friends of mine.

---------------

To the guy that said that the Bible says, "wasting sperm is bad". I would like to ask, where does it say that? Yes, there was Onan who did 'spill' his 'seed' during intercourse. But God didn't kill him because of that. His brother died, and in Jewish tradition then, the brother of the deceased is to take the deceased wife and bear a child with her to take his father's name so that his 'legacy' would live on. So that the father would always have an heir. Instead of doing that, Onan 'spilled' his seed on the ground instead of in the wife so that Onan's brother could have an heir. So basically, he didn't do his brotherly duty.

------------------

And to 'Perseus', gravity is not a theory. It is now called the 'Law of Gravity'. You learn in middle school the difference between a scientific law and a scientific theory.

[dead]

And to 'Perseus', gravity is not a theory. It is now called the 'Law of Gravity'. You learn in middle school the difference between a scientific law and a scientific theory.

Yes, but what you showed as your "Scientific" evidence are theory's. Oh and on another matter please dont preach on the fucking ROTW.

[Peace God]

he hates the sin that they indulge in
so he uses a petty human emotion like hate (which a 5 yr old can get over)...all because we are indulging in sins that he created?
HOWEVER, they need to get their life right with Christ(and I am not going to go deep into that), and then Christ will help them get over their homosexual tendencies.
idk about that...jesus is a pretty handsome man


The Bible, yes was written a while ago, but being that the Word IS God, and it is the Word OF God, and taking into the fact that God never changes, well it is perfectly fit for this society as well.
So slavery is ok... and we should stone heretics, homosexuals and disobedient kids. It fits perfectly!!!

To the guy that said that the Bible says, "wasting sperm is bad". I would like to ask, where does it say that?
when did i say that?


And to 'Perseus', gravity is not a theory. It is now called the 'Law of Gravity'. You learn in middle school the difference between a scientific law and a scientific theory.

there is also the theory of gravity...its purpose is to explain how gravitation works

[Perseus]

And to 'Perseus', gravity is not a theory. It is now called the 'Law of Gravity'. You learn in middle school the difference between a scientific law and a scientific theory.

Herp derp, it's still a theory. It's just called "law of gravity" so people won't be like, "oh, it's a theory, that must means it's fake." Everything in science is a theory. Everything about genetics is a theory. Y'know, people are choosing whether or not to change "the theory of natural selection" to "the law of natural selection". So, since it will be "the law", you'll believe in it, right?

[Death]

Wow, it's funny how when people tell you not to judge people(which I haven't), other people judge you.

We are judging you on your homophobia, which is completely different to judging someone for something they can't control, or doesn't involve discrimination.

Anyway, homosexuality is a SIN, as stated in Romans 1:27.

Wow, just because a 5000-year old book says that something is to be condemned, it must be true. [/SARCASM]

Homosexuals, on the other hand, are NOT. God loves the people, as always. He has always loved everyone and that will never change or falter.

Problem is, you're assuming that God exists. You don't need to believe or disbelieve in God to be able to argue about whether or not Christianity is against homosexuals.

However, he hates the sin that they indulge in.

That shows God's homophobic nature (since he decided to make homosexuality a 'sin' in the first place) proving that he's a bigot. Are you sure that this is really the case? Or are homosexuals not so bad after all?

HOWEVER, they need to get their life right with Christ(and I am not going to go deep into that), and then Christ will help them get over their homosexual tendencies.

Then why do you get Christians who are gay? Because you can't 'cure' homosexuality. The very fact that you are suggesting that you can is stupid. Why can't you say something that is actually based on facts?

The Bible, yes was written a while ago, but being that the Word IS God, and it is the Word OF God

*Yawn*, I'm not going to even bother starting on how disturbingly ignorant you are if you actually believe that the Bible was not the work of humans.

Christianity believes that homosexuality is wrong because God said so.

Great reason.

Why did he say so? He made man to be with woman.

That is also a poor argument that is just begging to be refuted. Are you seriously saying that doing anything that we aren't 'made for' is wrong? I'm sure that we were never supposed to sit on our arses watching TV or playing games or wear braces (why do you think they feel so horrible before getting used to them, which can still be annoying in ways?). So, that must be wrong. Makes perfect sense.

God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and populate the earth. If they were gay and had homosexual partners, could they do that?

But that was thousands of years ago. We no longer need to populate the Earth. You're trying to get ideas and laws from so long ago, that they are no longer applicable to today. Don't even bother since you will fail every time.

No. Homosexuality is unnatural.

I was wondering when that line would come up. Not only has it been found in certain non-human animals (who can't 'know' anything about the Bible and its bigoted, so called 'laws'), it also means that living in houses and using microwaves and anything else 'unnatural' is wrong, which is nonsense. You're not proving that homosexuality is wrong, you're proving your arrogance, nothing else.

If you were born gay, I'm sure that you would think more of homosexuality. And if you say that homosexuality is wrong, you may as well be saying that being black is wrong. They are exactly the same principle and you can control neither. You know what, I'm sorry. Not for refuting you, but I feel sorry for you because you've been brainwashed into believing a wrong and awful 'moral'. I can only be glad that my mind hasn't been corrupted like that.

[ray8806]

We are judging you on your homophobia....

I'm not homophobic. Homophobia(as defined in the Marriam-Webster dictionary)-irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.

I don't fear, discriminate, or any of the sort toward homosexuals or homosexuality. I do consider it wrong, but I don't discriminate against it. I treat homosexuals as people still. Like I have said many times, I have many gay friends. If I was homophobic, I definitely wouldn't have gay friends. I just don't get involved with it. That's all.

I find it somewhat amusing how people start to insult me and get all hostile when I haven't. I haven't insulted any of you, and if I have, it was completely unintentional.

All in all, this thread is moving from explaining the assumption that Christianity is against gay people, which is completely untrue, to some anti-Christian rant.

Christians and Christianity is NOT against gay PEOPLE. Just homosexuality...the act of. We have nothing against the people, just the sin. But then again, we are also against drinking, cursing, cheating, lying, and many other sins. Do Christians even do those sins every once and a while, of course we do. We are no better than anyone, even homosexuals. A person who commits the sin of homosexuality, is not worse than someone who lies or cheats or curses. I don't hate someone who cusses. I wish they wouldn't but I don't hate them. Am I against cursing? Yes. Am I against people who do curse? No.

Anyway, I see that this is not going to get anywhere at all. So, if I may, I am taking my leave and not responding to any more of these posts. I wish you all happiness and prosperity.

God bless.

[dead]

God bless.

Please stop your preaching and get some common sense.

[Peace God]

Anyway, I see that this is not going to get anywhere at all. So, if I may, I am taking my leave and not responding to any more of these posts.
you havent really been responding to our counter arguments in the first place...i hope you read them at least

Please stop your preaching and get some common sense.
wow that was completely unnecessary

[Perseus]

Christians and Christianity is NOT against gay PEOPLE. Just homosexuality...the act of. We have nothing against the people, just the sin. But then again, we are also against drinking, cursing, cheating, lying, and many other sins. Do Christians even do those sins every once and a while, of course we do. We are no better than anyone, even homosexuals. A person who commits the sin of homosexuality, is not worse than someone who lies or cheats or curses. I don't hate someone who cusses. I wish they wouldn't but I don't hate them. Am I against cursing? Yes. Am I against people who do curse? No.

Anyway, I see that this is not going to get anywhere at all. So, if I may, I am taking my leave and not responding to any more of these posts. I wish you all happiness and prosperity.

God bless.

How is drinking alcohol a sin? Jesus drank wine, did he not? And thanks for dodging my statement/question. And swearing is not bad, in the sense of Christianity. What words were deemed "bad" back then are different than they are now. Especially since those were different languages and society deems words bad, not God. English wasn't around 2,000+ years ago. By you not responding to the people not bashing you shows your character. Never pay attention to "Death"; he has this animosity towards Christians, overall.

[dead]

wow that was completely unnecessary

I know, but I don't see him learning anytime soon and I would love for him to stop preaching.

[Peace God]

I know, but I don't see him learning anytime sooni takes some ppl longer than others...we can only hope he learned something

and I would love for him to stop preaching.

well it looks like your wish came true(on this thread at least:P)

[Perseus]

Please stop your preaching and get some common sense.

That's not really preaching, and he obviously did that to troll y'all up. His mission was accomplished, obviously.

[dead]

That's not really preaching, and he obviously did that to troll y'all up. His mission was accomplished, obviously.

I know, but I have nothing better to do.

[Perseus]

I know, but I have nothing better to do.

How pointless. Instead of antagonizing him, you could of just not posted. But whatever, this is going off topic.

[Aceso]

I am christian I guess, but I have absolutely nothing against gays :)
My best friend is gay. I dont know what I would do without him! :wub: Its your life, not ours, so you should be able to do what you want with it.
If you truly loved someone, no matter what gender, I dont think there is anything wrong with having a loving and caring relationship with them :)

[PainUnreal]

I find it so stupid that Christians say that its unholy to be gay. Okay, it says it in the Bible. You know what else are abominations as mentioned in the same section of the Bible? Shellfish. Bunnies. Working on Saturday. Shaving. Vegetable gardens. Polyester. Tattoos.
Leviticus also suggests that slavery is perfectly okay.
Something I found online: Leviticus verses do not deal with homosexuality but rather the Canaanite sex rituals performed by Molech's male priests/ prostitutes who dressed up as women, wore goddess vestments, and goddess masks and whose customers were male- hence laying with a male as though a female.
It's just interpreted to say that gays are immoral and whatnot because they want a justifiable reason to be a bunch of bigots. Its really quite wrong that Christians say that gays are an "abomination unto the lord". A person is a person, whether they're gay or straight doesn't make a difference.

[Death]

I'm not homophobic. Homophobia(as defined in the Marriam-Webster dictionary)-irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.

You think that homosexuality i s wrong. That in itself is homophobia. Don't even bother denying it.

I do consider it wrong,

See, you're a homophobe.

I have many gay friends.

You think homosexuality is wrong, and yet you are prepared to have gay friends. So, would you also be prepared to have thieving friends despite the fact that theft is wrong? Probably not. See the contradiction there?

I find it somewhat amusing how people start to insult me and get all hostile when I haven't.

We haven't insulted you, we've only refuted you. If you don't like it, don't give us reason to by not posting in the first place. remember, you are on a debate forum. You can't expect everyone to agree with you.


Christians and Christianity is NOT against gay PEOPLE.

Read the old testament. It says, among other things, that they all need to die.

Just homosexuality...the act of.

You do realise that you haven't yet given a reason why homosexuality (even if just the act) is wrong yet. If two people give consent to have fun, who's getting hurt? No-one. The sooner you see that (or come up with a valid argument), the better.

We have nothing against the people, just the sin.

But I've already told you (even if you didn't listen), it's a 'sin' because God in the Bible made it a sin. He would only do that if he was a homophobe.

God bless.

Are you deliberately trying to insult me pointlessly?

Do you realise that you haven't addressed any of my points? Why? Because you have nothing to refute them with? I don't see why I bother responding to you if you ignore the points that I make.

[Death]

By you not responding to the people not bashing you shows your character.

It also shows that he isn't willing or able to counter-argue (probably the former since I find the latter unlikely), seeing that all we did was refute him.

Never pay attention to "Death"; he has this animosity towards Christians, overall.

The very fact that you are insulting me instead of trying to refute me shows your immaturity. I have nothing against Christians, I never have, but I will put forward my beliefs on a debate forum. If you don't like that, how about you stop trolling towards me and actually try to refute my claims? I would love for you to try that, whether you fail miserably or come up with stumping points. Besides, it is clear that you only hate me because I'm an atheist who naturally disagrees with a lot of Christianity. Therefore, it is clear that you also have animosity toward atheists and for you to then have a go at me like this is hypocrisy.

I would at this point stop responding to people and voice my own opinions, but I've already done that a few times and no-one has said anything to refute it that requires any sort of counter-response.

[Perseus]

The very fact that you are insulting me instead of trying to refute me shows your immaturity. I have nothing against Christians, I never have, but I will put forward my beliefs on a debate forum. If you don't like that, how about you stop trolling towards me and actually try to refute my claims? I would love for you to try that, whether you fail miserably or come up with stumping points. Besides, it is clear that you only hate me because I'm an atheist who naturally disagrees with a lot of Christianity. Therefore, it is clear that you also have animosity toward atheists and for you to then have a go at me like this is hypocrisy.

I would at this point stop responding to people and voice my own opinions, but I've already done that a few times and no-one has said anything to refute it that requires any sort of counter-response.

I don't know what you're going on about because I never insulted you and having nothing to refute you on. And also, three of my best friends are atheists, so... I doubt I hate atheists...

[Death]

I never insulted you

So saying that one should never pay attention to me isn't insulting? What's your definition of 'insult' then? If you ask me, you don't just have to call someone a name like 'cunt' or 'douchebag' to insult them.

and having nothing to refute you on.

If you don't want to refute any of my previous arguments, no-one said you had to. But I don't think it would be smart to ignore anyone, and that stretches to saying that one or everyone should.

And also, three of my best friends are atheists, so... I doubt I hate atheists...

Maybe you don't. And I have Christian friends, so I hardly think that I hate Christianity either. Works both ways you know.

[The Dark Lord]

I'm not homophobic. Homophobia(as defined in the Marriam-Webster dictionary)-irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.

I don't fear, discriminate, or any of the sort toward homosexuals or homosexuality. I do consider it wrong, but I don't discriminate against it. I treat homosexuals as people still. Like I have said many times, I have many gay friends. If I was homophobic, I definitely wouldn't have gay friends. I just don't get involved with it. That's all.

I find it somewhat amusing how people start to insult me and get all hostile when I haven't. I haven't insulted any of you, and if I have, it was completely unintentional.

All in all, this thread is moving from explaining the assumption that Christianity is against gay people, which is completely untrue, to some anti-Christian rant.

Christians and Christianity is NOT against gay PEOPLE. Just homosexuality...the act of. We have nothing against the people, just the sin. But then again, we are also against drinking, cursing, cheating, lying, and many other sins. Do Christians even do those sins every once and a while, of course we do. We are no better than anyone, even homosexuals. A person who commits the sin of homosexuality, is not worse than someone who lies or cheats or curses. I don't hate someone who cusses. I wish they wouldn't but I don't hate them. Am I against cursing? Yes. Am I against people who do curse? No.

Anyway, I see that this is not going to get anywhere at all. So, if I may, I am taking my leave and not responding to any more of these posts. I wish you all happiness and prosperity.

God bless.

You hate homosexuals because the bible tells you to. What part of that is rational? You've said homosexuality is "wrong". People should be judged upon meeting them, not on what the bible tells you to think of them. I'm not homosexual but you are a bigoted, deluded moron.

[Death]

Extending on what Matty1 said, the Bible is also over 5000 years old. How can one take a random book written by humans of a completely different society and even try to begin applying it to today?

Also, the 'point' about the need to populate the world is no longer valid either, as today, overpopulation is becoming more and more of a problem than depopulation. Anyone could see that.

[The Batman]

You think that homosexuality i s wrong. That in itself is homophobia. Don't even bother denying it.



See, you're a homophobe.Just because someone thinks it's wrong it does not make them a homophobe.



You think homosexuality is wrong, and yet you are prepared to have gay friends. So, would you also be prepared to have thieving friends despite the fact that theft is wrong? Probably not. See the contradiction there? That's pretty much asking him would he rather have a friend that's attracted to him or one that steals his things. So trying to compare different actions because they both are wrong isn't going to prove a point.





Read the old testament. It says, among other things, that they all need to die.[/qoute]
There are christians who are not against homosexuality because they are smart enough to not try and implement the bible in their every day life.



[QUOTE=Death;877932]But I've already told you (even if you didn't listen), it's a 'sin' because God in the Bible made it a sin. He would only do that if he was a homophobe.


Do you realise that you haven't addressed any of my points? Why? Because you have nothing to refute them with? I don't see why I bother responding to you if you ignore the points that I make.

The only evidence you've presented is your opinion I haven't seen one good source or point from you yet so your points are just as good or bad as his.

Anyways, I only came because of one post I saw.


Anyway, homosexuality is a SIN, as stated in Romans 1:27. Homosexuals, on the other hand, are NOT. God loves the people, as always. He has always loved everyone and that will never change or falter. However, he hates the sin that they indulge in. I have sinned, many times, and I will continue to because it is human nature. Homosexuals, they will sin, as it is human nature. Are you talking about this verse? And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Sorry but I do not see the "homosexuality is a sin" in that verse or any of the translations.
http://bible.cc/romans/1-27.htm
HOWEVER, they need to get their life right with Christ(and I am not going to go deep into that), and then Christ will help them get over their homosexual tendencies. The Bible even tells us to be weary of our emotions. If you live your life off your emotions, you will get yourself into a lot of trouble(not trouble like someone getting on to you necessarily, trouble as in bad situations as well). We have to think with a clear and sound mind, that God can give us.Where in the bible does it say that god will cure you of your homosexuality?

The Bible, yes was written a while ago, but being that the Word IS God, and it is the Word OF God, and taking into the fact that God never changes, well it is perfectly fit for this society as well. Well the problem with that is the bible was written by MAN, translated by MAN, and preached by MAN. A preacher is going to put their opinion in it and preach it to the masses so whatever they think about it being a sin or not is what their congregation is going to think.

Christianity believes that homosexuality is wrong because God said so. Why did he say so? He made man to be with woman. Matthew 19:5. For a man is to leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife. It never said his male 'partner' or whatever the correct political term is. God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and populate the earth. If they were gay and had homosexual partners, could they do that? No. Homosexuality is unnatural. The very figure of the male and female body doesn't support homosexuality, but rather encourages heterosexual behavior.If homosexuality was unnatural why does it occur in more than just humans? There are homosexual animals in nature African Buffalo[21]
African Elephant[22]
Agile Wallaby[23]
Amazon River Dolphin(Boto)[19]
American Bison[21][24]
Antelope[25]
Asian Elephant[22]
Asiatic Lion[26]
Asiatic Mouflon[27]
Atlantic Spotted Dolphin[19]
Australian Sea Lion[28]
Barasingha[29]
Barbary Sheep[30]
Beluga[19]
Bharal[31]
Bighorn Sheep[30]
Black Bear[32]
Blackbuck[33]
Black-footed Rock Wallaby[23]
Black-tailed Deer[29]
Bonnet Macaque[14]
Bonobo[34][35][36]
Bottlenose Dolphin[19][37]
Bowhead Whale[19]
Brazilian Guinea Pig[38]
Bridled Dolphin[19]
Brown Bear[32]
Brown Capuchin[39]
Brown Long-eared Bat[40]
Brown Rat[41]
Buffalo[30]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mammals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

All in all, I am just trying to defend why my religion thinks like it does. You have no obligation to believe in my religion and I respect that you have made your decision. That is about as far as we can go. I don't care what you believe, and I am sure that you say the same thing about me. Christians don't HATE homosexuals, as a matter of fact, I have many homosexual friends. I just do not condone what they do, but they are still very good friends of mine. You can defend your religion just go learn more about it first since most of your points are opinionated and just incorrect.


To the guy that said that the Bible says, "wasting sperm is bad". I would like to ask, where does it say that? Yes, there was Onan who did 'spill' his 'seed' during intercourse. But God didn't kill him because of that. His brother died, and in Jewish tradition then, the brother of the deceased is to take the deceased wife and bear a child with her to take his father's name so that his 'legacy' would live on. So that the father would always have an heir. Instead of doing that, Onan 'spilled' his seed on the ground instead of in the wife so that Onan's brother could have an heir. So basically, he didn't do his brotherly duty.
You can explain that but you can't explain why homosexuality isn't a sin. If you can rationalize another part of the bible what stops you from doing the same with the versus you have poorly presented to us?

[Peace God]

So saying that one should never pay attention to me isn't insulting? What's your definition of 'insult' then? If you ask me, you don't just have to call someone a name like 'cunt' or 'douchebag' to insult them.

Dude, you're ridiculous... you're okay with insulting people and accusing someone of being a homophobe and a bigot and then bitch over comments that are barely insulting.


See, you're a homophobe.

not necessarily... read his analogy which i thought was pretty good

A person who commits the sin of homosexuality, is not worse than someone who lies or cheats or curses. I don't hate someone who cusses. I wish they wouldn't but I don't hate them. Am I against cursing? Yes. Am I against people who do curse? No.


I honestly never expected a stubborn, closed minded christian like ray8806 to be the more mature person in this debate.

Grow the fuck up and stop whining.

[Death]

Dude, you're ridiculous... you're okay with insulting people and accusing someone of being a homophobe and a bigot and then bitch over comments that are barely insulting.

And yet you're insulting me now. God, the number of hypocrites on this thread seem to be increasing rapidly.

not necessarily... read his analogy which i thought was pretty good

The bias of a lot of people on this thread is amazing. Why are you believing what he's saying when all he's talking about is an archaic book that isn't even applicable today?

I honestly never expected a stubborn, closed minded christian like ray8806 to be the more mature person in this debate.

I'm not going to even get started on how stupid you are if you genuinely believe that. I am not close minded and you damn well know it. I have not insulted Christianity or anything anywhere on this thread, and ray8806 has not addressed any of my points. So how about you actually try reading through the thread before opening your trap to spew out pointless insults without actually debating - or at least not very well.

Grow the fuck up and stop whining.

I'm not going to stop arguing my point simply because you disagree with me. What's the matter? Don't like anything that you don't agree with? Can't argue back so you just have to start moaning? You are so childish. Get a life.

All the opinions I have stand. If you don't like it and don't feel like debating, get the fuck off the debate forum.

EDIT: Oh, and don't bother saying that I'm a troll or that I like insulting people or anything. I've tried civility, but people still piss on you, so why should I suck up to people like you?

[The Batman]

You guys need to cool it and stick to the debate any more arguing or insulting and I'll warn/infract.

[Peace God]

The bias of a lot of people on this thread is amazing. Why are you believing what he's saying when all he's talking about is an archaic book that isn't even applicable today?
I'm able to trust someone's word regardless of what book they believe in...how does that make me biased? He doesn't hate sinners just the sin. Why is that so hard for you to believe?

I'm not going to even get started on how stupid you are if you genuinely believe that.
I do believe that he is more mature than you....sure, he is misinformed and stubborn but he is pretty respectful and doesnt whine as much as you do.

I am not close minded and you damn well know it.
When did i say you were?
So how about you actually try reading through the thread before opening your trap to spew out pointless insults without actually debating - or at least not very well.
I've read every post on here and my insult was not pointless...it was so you could stop taking things personal and out of context. Nobody here hates you.


I'm not going to stop arguing my point simply because you disagree with me.
I never told you to stop arguing your point.

What's the matter? Don't like anything that you don't agree with? Can't argue back so you just have to start moaning? You are so childish. Get a life.
hahaha... did you not read any of my posts? i agree with you on this subject

Edit:
You guys need to cool it and stick to the debate any more arguing or insulting and I'll warn/infract.
oops..my bad:whoops:

[Jack90]

I'm catholic. purdy close to christianity. and i believe that god doesn't hate gays nor does he not love them. if he did then i believe that there would never be such a thing. i believe that god loves everyone becuz he is the one that created us and believes in us to do wat we think is right. but eh. thats jus me... :l

God loves them but they wont enter teh kingdom. And christians are not against Gays. were against gayism. We love all men and therfor we also love gays.

[AgusCO]

Are you talking about this verse? Sorry but I do not see the "homosexuality is a sin" in that verse or any of the translations.
http://bible.cc/romans/1-27.htm



Are you being serious?
"New International Version":
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
It does sound like the description of a sin to me.Actually more like "An unnatural act that is a sin involving a deadly sin and is to be punished"

God loves them but they wont enter the kingdom
Oh,so they are getting their souls tortured by the ever-lasting flames,etc of hells for eternity? Yeah,that's sounds like love.

[The Batman]

Are you being serious?
"New International Version":

It does sound like the description of a sin to me.Actually more like "An unnatural act that is a sin involving a deadly sin and is to be punished"


Oh,so they are getting their souls tortured by the ever-lasting flames,etc of hells for eternity? Yeah,that's sounds like love.

That's what you're taking from it though. It's not saying it's a sin what it could be saying is that it was against the law back then and they got punished by their people for it. It does not say that "man fucked another man and went to hell" Also that one you quoted uses the word lust not love and homosexuality is about love not lust so it could be straight guys fucking each other for all you know.

[Duskofdawn]

See, the thing is, Christianity isn't about hate. It isn't about hating gay people, it isn't about hating adulterers, it isn't about hating. It's about love. I love everyone, Jesus said to love each other like I love you. That's what you do. You love everyone, hate the sin, love the sinner. I don't hate gay people, some of my best friends are gay. Do I like them being gay? Of course not. The most known verse in the bible, John 3:16 For god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that nobody should perish, but have everlasting life. Christians who hate gays are hypocrites. God didn't just give Jesus for the straight white people, he gave Jesus for everyone, there's no sin too big or too small.

[Peace God]

hate the sin...Do I like them being gay? Of course not.
why do you even hate the "sin"?...im sure you dont hate it when people work on the sabbath or when women hold positions of authority over men
why do you choose to hate homosexuality?

[Tiberius]

Everyone seems to forget something: Homosexuality is considered a sin just like any other.

It's not worse or any better than the other sins. Christianity doesn't hate homosexuals, it loves them like any Christian. It just views what they are doing as being immoral.

[Death]

hate the sin

But why is homosexuality a sin? I know that God said it in the bible, but why did he choose to make something a sin which doesn't harm, inconvience or affect anyone in any bad way?

Do I like them being gay? Of course not.

Why is it that I get the feeling that you think that homosexuality is really weird and unnatural?

For god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that nobody should perish, but have everlasting life. Christians who hate gays are hypocrites.

I won't deny that there are many parts of the bible (moreover in the new testament) that are accepting, but there are even more (moreover in the old testament) that say essentially the opposite (homophobia amplified to the extent of killing).

[magikarpy]

But why is homosexuality a sin? I know that God said it in the bible, but why did he choose to make something a sin which doesn't harm, inconvience or affect anyone in any bad way?


I won't deny that there are many parts of the bible (moreover in the new testament) that are accepting, but there are even more (moreover in the old testament) that say essentially the opposite (homophobia amplified to the extent of killing).


First, the point that "God" makes throughout the whole bible is that obedience is key. If you try to put it through a human's perspective it'll look warped. Why did he throw us out of the garden and create all those horrible things just because we ate a fruit? Why does god dislike homosexuality? Why did Jesus have to die if God can do anything? Most christians simply wait for the moment that they can die and they believe they can ask there father anything when they're in heaven. There entire religion is based on faith.

The old testament is different from the new testament for just one major reason. The old testament is before jesus, theoretically, died on the cross. Taking all the sins and forgiving them the second they're committed if you have accepted him. That is the core belief. Now catholicism and other demoniations warp it and make it about hatred. But If you look into the Bible, a christian should hate a homosexual as much as they hate a murderer or someone who works on the sabbath. With absolutely no hate whatsoever.

[Death]

But If you look into the Bible, a christian should hate a homosexual as much as they hate a murderer or someone who works on the sabbath. With absolutely no hate whatsoever.

Should a Christian (or any religious person for that matter) follow their religious texts precisely as it's written though?

[Sage]

See, the thing is, Christianity isn't about hate. It isn't about hating gay people, it isn't about hating adulterers, it isn't about hating. It's about love.
History suggests the contrary.

I love everyone, Jesus said to love each other like I love you. That's what you do.
It's one thing to say you love everyone. What do you do to express this love to absolutely everyone you meet?

I don't hate gay people, some of my best friends are gay.
They all say that.

Do I like them being gay? Of course not.
Why though? What's so bad about homosexuality? Why is it amoral? Why, man, why?

The most known verse in the bible, John 3:16 For god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that nobody should perish, but have everlasting life.
I can quote the Bible to argue my points too (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=820971&postcount=1345). Tim wrote that, but, for the sake of this argument, it more or less sums up my counter argument. You can just as easily use the Bible to spread hate and discrimination as you can 'love' (even though I don't feel it is possible to wholeheartedly and sincerely love everyone in the world equally and that anyone who claims to do so is full of it).

Christians who hate gays are hypocrites. God didn't just give Jesus for the straight white people, he gave Jesus for everyone, there's no sin too big or too small.
You may not like that interpretation of the Bible, but it is no more or less valid than your own.

Should a Christian (or any religious person for that matter) follow their religious texts precisely as it's written though?
The problem with this line of thinking, my dear Death, is that you spend a great deal of time and effort arguing against dogmatic thinking and then try to argue that religious people should not be anything but dogmatic, unquestioning believers. Not believing every part of a religion is not wrong, per se, it just takes away from the legitimacy of the entire belief as a whole and needlessly divides people that are supposedly of the same faith.

[Tankinx91]

Aren't all sins equal in gods eyes?

“For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.” (James 2:10) I don't see why christians make such a big deal about being gay.

The bible may say homosexuality is wrong, but doesn't it also say a whole bunch of other bullshit that nobody pays attention to? I'm not a christian so i don't care what your god says about me.

[Tiberius]

I can quote the Bible to argue my points too (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=820971&postcount=1345). Tim wrote that, but, for the sake of this argument, it more or less sums up my counter argument. You can just as easily use the Bible to spread hate and discrimination as you can 'love' (even though I don't feel it is possible to wholeheartedly and sincerely love everyone in the world equally and that anyone who claims to do so is full of it).


Tim, you do realize that when you take a excerpt of text from something and use it out of context, you can make it mean whatever you want it to? That's exactly what your little buddy has done and it is a horribly biased view of things.

[ThatDude93]

I am a Christian and I believe that homosexuality is frowned upon by God. But he is the one to do the judging, not us. The Bible says to love the sinner, hate the sin...and to love thy neighbor as thyself. That includes gays, and bi's, and everyone else. I don't hate gay people, homophobia is gay. There are a lot of hypocrites out there that try to act like they know everything. But most of them have rarely even cracked open the Bible. God loves everybody, it says that in the Bible as well. So you can't say God hates gays either.

I hope I don't seem hypocritical, if I do tell me. I am just saying what I am thinking at the moment. I like to debate about stuff like this, so if you want to reply to me go ahead. I expect this to be an interesting topic.

[CuriousDestruction]

we can take quotes from anywhere, put them out of context and declare them sufficient in an argument. if you want to quote someone, be original, quote yourselves. make your own ideas. create your own philosophy.

[Sage]

we can take quotes from anywhere, put them out of context and declare them sufficient in an argument. if you want to quote someone, be original, quote yourselves. make your own ideas. create your own philosophy.

When you're debating the Bible, it's sort of necessary to quote the Bible. As well, I fail to see how a great number of those gruesome passages can be put into any remotely positive contexts.

I believe that homosexuality is frowned upon by God.

But WHY? What makes it wrong?

[Death]

But WHY? What makes it wrong?

It seems pretty obvious that Jwb187 has no intention of answering that question. What a surprise.

That includes gays, and bi's, and everyone else. I don't hate gay people, homophobia is gay.

You know, I'm actually laughing at that line. Not because of the childish grammatical error with an apostrophe which is clearly redundant, but because of the hypocrisy where you say that 'homophobia is gay' with the term 'gay' being used as a synonym for 'stupid', which is homophobic and therefore hypocritical in itself.

God loves everybody, it says that in the Bible as well. So you can't say God hates gays either.

I suppose that explains why he committed genocide a few times including flooding the entire world simply for not following him as well as burning down towns that worshiped other deities, killed plenty of homosexuals (usually as part of the genocide and partly or wholly why) etc.


The problem with this line of thinking, my dear Death, is that you spend a great deal of time and effort arguing against dogmatic thinking and then try to argue that religious people should not be anything but dogmatic, unquestioning believers. Not believing every part of a religion is not wrong, per se, it just takes away from the legitimacy of the entire belief as a whole and needlessly divides people that are supposedly of the same faith.

I never said that religious people should be dogmatic. In fact, I was saying quite the opposite. People can follow religion but not be dogmatic and be more accepting of what the religion might be against, since after all, we are living in a very different society today.

[Atonement]

Homosexuality is only mentioned as a sin referencing two motives.

1. Not procreating.

2. Paganism and rape.

1- In the early days, the nation of Israelites was still growing and needed members. To be gay wasn't the problem, we've been gay forever, but to not contribute to the baby making force was to not help God's nation, thus, must be a sin.

2- Homosexual sex and sodomy happened a LOT in Pagan rituals then and also it was used to humiliate defeated opponents. There are references in history to whole armies being raped and sodomized by the victor in a battle. Also, with Christianity starting off, it was mainly Christianity v. Jews and Christianity v. Pagans. To fight the Paganism, they converted many festivals to have Christian meanings (Easter, Christmas, etc.). Also to break away from their traditions of before, they made it so that Pagan rituals were illegal in their eyes and to commit them was to be Pagan, hence, non-Christian.

If you want more, I can get more on it. This is just the stuff I have off the top of my head without citing sources, etc. :)

[ThatDude93]

But WHY? What makes it wrong?
I can't answer that question fully, because I am not God. But, the way I see it, the first humans were Adam and Eve, a man and a woman. Marriage was meant as a union between just that, a man and a woman.



You know, I'm actually laughing at that line. Not because of the childish grammatical error with an apostrophe which is clearly redundant, but because of the hypocrisy where you say that 'homophobia is gay' with the term 'gay' being used as a synonym for 'stupid', which is homophobic and therefore hypocritical in itself.



I suppose that explains why he committed genocide a few times including flooding the entire world simply for not following him as well as burning down towns that worshiped other deities, killed plenty of homosexuals (usually as part of the genocide and partly or wholly why) etc.



I do see my issues here, I was being hypocritical with the homophobia is gay line. I did not notice it until now, thank you for pointing it out. But on the other note, my point was that it is not right to hate on others just because they are different. Oh, and the grammar mistake, I was about to get off the computer and I didn't take the time to type out bisexuals, and just bis didn't look right.


Well, once again I am not God, but it does say in the Bible that God is a jealous God(Exodus 34:14). Also, God is not always our big eraser in the sky to make all our screw-ups better without punishment. When you screw up a lot and you know what your doing is wrong and you really don't care, (disobeying God on purpose without even praying about it) I figure God gets a little upset.
Homosexuality is only mentioned as a sin referencing two motives.

1. Not procreating.

2. Paganism and rape.

1- In the early days, the nation of Israelites was still growing and needed members. To be gay wasn't the problem, we've been gay forever, but to not contribute to the baby making force was to not help God's nation, thus, must be a sin.

2- Homosexual sex and sodomy happened a LOT in Pagan rituals then and also it was used to humiliate defeated opponents. There are references in history to whole armies being raped and sodomized by the victor in a battle. Also, with Christianity starting off, it was mainly Christianity v. Jews and Christianity v. Pagans. To fight the Paganism, they converted many festivals to have Christian meanings (Easter, Christmas, etc.). Also to break away from their traditions of before, they made it so that Pagan rituals were illegal in their eyes and to commit them was to be Pagan, hence, non-Christian.

If you want more, I can get more on it. This is just the stuff I have off the top of my head without citing sources, etc. :)

You make a good point, it may not be homosexuality in general that upsets God, it could be all the sodomy and rape that happened back then.

But I don't think not having a baby is a sin, it is recommended, but it isn't a sin if you don't. The ancient Israelites might have thought it was, but i don't see any reference to that in the Bible

[Peace God]

the first humans were Adam and Eve, a man and a woman.
how does this make homosexuality wrong?
Marriage was meant as a union between just that, a man and a woman.
or several women and one man... according to the bible
Well, once again I am not God, but it does say in the Bible that God is a jealous God(Exodus 34:14).
jealous of what?

You make a good point, it may not be homosexuality in general that upsets God, it could be all the sodomy and rape that happened back then.

then shouldnt he also hate heterosexuality? or is he okay with men raping and sodomizing women?

[Perseus]

You know, I'm actually laughing at that line. Not because of the childish grammatical error with an apostrophe which is clearly redundant, but because of the hypocrisy where you say that 'homophobia is gay' with the term 'gay' being used as a synonym for 'stupid', which is homophobic and therefore hypocritical in itself.









Saying "gay" does not make you homophobic at all. I say it all the, well not all the time, and I'm not homophobic. Are gays who are openly gay and say "gay" make them homophobes, even though they accept who they are? And also, using it as a synonym for "stupid" is just as derogatory as saying "stupid" for something that you do not like.

jealous of what?

Jealous of you worshiping other gods, whom are false. That's the jist of it, if I remember correctly of what was drilled into my head when I was a little kid.

[magikarpy]

Should a Christian (or any religious person for that matter) follow their religious texts precisely as it's written though?

Ummm... yes?



I suppose that explains why he committed genocide a few times including flooding the entire world simply for not following him as well as burning down towns that worshiped other deities, killed plenty of homosexuals (usually as part of the genocide and partly or wholly why) etc.

I shall say it again. According to their belief, all of those "genocides" were committed in the old testament where humanities sins weren't forgiven.

[Peace God]

I shall say it again. According to their belief, all of those "genocides" were committed in the old testament where humanities sins weren't forgiven.
According to their belief? or According to the bible?
Because the bible still has genocide in the new testament.

[magikarpy]

According to their belief? or According to the bible?
Because the bible still has genocide in the new testament.

The bible is their belief. Correct me if I'm wrong but no where in the Bible does God commit any acts of genocide.

[ThatDude93]

how does this make homosexuality wrong?

or several women and one man... according to the bible

jealous of what?


then shouldnt he also hate heterosexuality? or is he okay with men raping and sodomizing women?

The way I meant it was that God made it to be that man and a woman are to be together. And on the subject of polygamy, it never says that it is ok in God's eyes. but the Bib;e never does say it is wrong or right.

It means that God is jealous of not having a relationship you.

Sodomy and rape are wrong no matter if it is heterosexual or homosexual.

[Sage]

It means that God is jealous of not having a relationship you.


A perfect being cannot experience negativity.

[ThatDude93]

Well according to the Bible, which is regarded by Christians, such as myself as the Word of God, he does experience negative feelings.

[Peace God]

God made it to be that man and a woman are to be together.
even if that were true... it still doesnt necessarily make homosexuality wrong

It means that God is jealous of not having a relationship you.

so he sends me to hell because he wants have a relationship with me?

Sodomy and rape are wrong no matter if it is heterosexual or homosexual.
Well lets see what the "word of god" has to say...

homosexual penalty for normal sex:
And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Heterosexual penalty for rape!!
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Sounds like he's okay with rape.

[magikarpy]

Old testament dumbass read my fucking posts. The rules in the old and new testament are different.

[Death]

Should a Christian (or any religious person for that matter) follow their religious texts precisely as it's written though?Ummm... yes?

So they should do everything it says everywhere in the Bible including the old testament? They should kill anyone who follows a different deity? They should drag their rebellious teenage children out of the house and have them stoned to death in front of their family and everyone else who watches? They should do everything else that is bad in those texts simply because it was written that way?

I don't know about you, but every Christian I know does not follow the Bible precisely as it's written.

[Peace God]

Old testament dumbass read my fucking posts. The rules in the old and new testament are different.
i was addressing the person who believes the bible is the word of god...last time i checked the old testament is still part of the bible

and im pretty sure god did kill people in the new testament... although probably not that many, because he has a much better personality in the new testament

also...since when are all of the old testament's teachings void just because of the new testament?

[magikarpy]

*facepalms*

Both of you. When Jesus theoretically came in the new testament he said that he was doing away with the old Jewish laws and customs and that now they need not follow ten commandments but simply two.

1. Love your neighbor as yourself.
2. Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart.

The Bible clearly says that it's okay if you slip up occasionally (although not condoning it) the only thing that will send you to hell in denying the "free gift".

[xXWatEvsXxXx]

nobody should hate,, =]

[Peace God]

Both of you. When Jesus theoretically came in the new testament he said that he was doing away with the old Jewish laws and customs and that now they need not follow ten commandments but simply two.

1. Love your neighbor as yourself.
2. Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart.

The Bible clearly says that it's okay if you slip up occasionally (although not condoning it) the only thing that will send you to hell in denying the "free gift".
so the majority of the bible is irrelevant because of the new testament?

[magikarpy]

so the majority of the bible is irrelevant because of the new testament?

The old testament is there for stories and rules. The message is in the new testament. You should read the new testament first.

[Death]

If that's the case, why is the new testament after the old testament? In fact, why is the old testament even in the bible?

[Perseus]

If that's the case, why is the new testament after the old testament? In fact, why is the old testament even in the bible?

The first part is a silly question, and you know it. The Bible was put together forever ago by the early Catholic church, and they decided what should and shouldn't be in the Bible. That's why it's there, and why not? The only harm it caused is people hating gays, which is ridiculous, but still.

[magikarpy]

If that's the case, why is the new testament after the old testament? In fact, why is the old testament even in the bible?

Historical purposes. The how did it happen, the why did it happen, the where did it come from. Questions like that. Genesis along with stories of Jesus' ancestors all the way down to Jesus himself. It provides a complete geneology.

[Sage]

Well according to the Bible, which is regarded by Christians, such as myself as the Word of God, he does experience negative feelings.

That's pretty pathetic for a supposedly all-powerful being. Any entity that possesses every trait that all Christians can agree on (all powerful, omnipotent, omnipresent, etc) doesn't need to create humans to solve its loneliness, it can simply will the negative feeling away. It needs not create the Earth as a paradise when it'll just become a shithole later. It knows everything that's going to happen before it happens, so why begin anyway?

Everything your god does is pointless.

nobody should hate,, =]

That's incredibly stupid. Everybody hates something, it's natural. Hate is not inherently a bad thing either. You know what I hate? Injustice. You know what else I hate? Avoidable disasters and people who make the world a worse place. Hate of these things can be powerful motivation to work against them.

[deadpie]

>Implying Christians are only against gay people.

Let's show the love of God.


Christianity Against Rape Victims (Death To Victim)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

Christianity Against Non-followers(Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests)

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Christianity Against Witches (Kill Witches, lol)

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Christianity Against Anyone Who's Not Christian (Kill Nonbelievers)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Christianity Against Followers Of Other Religions (Kill Followers of Other Religions.)

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Christianity Against Brats (Kill Brats)

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

Oh, I'll throw this in just because I feel like it -

Kill Your Neighbors

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

[Ryhanna]

The bible is their belief. Correct me if I'm wrong but no where in the Bible does God commit any acts of genocide.

What about noah's ark? I'm assuming god killed the rest of those people with his rain? If not then catholic schools don't teach enough :/

I think the Christian community should just get over it. More and more people are feeling comfortable enough to come out and it's becoming increasingly likley that religious figures will eventually come out (those who are gay, naturally..).

Face it Christians, homosexuality is part of the world now, instead of fighting it and making yourself look like (giggle, even MORE like) huge bigots, just accept it. Your not going to make it go away.

[kingpinnn]

if you take the bible literally, then it is against homosexuality

[DayBreakArt]

Jesus loves all yet homosexuals are an abomination? wtf? I dont think its the religion itself but more of the people that follow the religion.

[Zeh Crazy]

Unfortunately, I grew up with this. My grandma preached to me as a child that liking the same sex was vile, disgusting, and wrong. And that you would go to Hell. I never believed that. But you can imagine what that did to me as a kid, with doubts about my own orientation. It scared the piss out of me that I could be sent to Hell, that God would send me there because I love a certian person.

We're all people, and we all deserve to be loved.

[Death]

The first part is a silly question, and you know it. The Bible was put together forever ago by the early Catholic church, and they decided what should and shouldn't be in the Bible. That's why it's there, and why not? The only harm it caused is people hating gays, which is ridiculous, but still.

It wasn't a silly question, thankyou. Just becasue it was written in a certian way or order, it doesn't mean that new bibles made have to be the same. If society thought that they didn't want everything in the bible to stay there, why couldn't they edit bits out to make it more appropriate to today's society?

Jesus loves all yet homosexuals are an abomination? wtf? I dont think its the religion itself but more of the people that follow the religion.

And yet I would have said that it was the other way around. But yes, there is contradiction in the bible. You should remember however that the first bit you mentioned is from the new testament whilst the second is from the old one.

[The Batman]

It wasn't a silly question, thankyou. Just becasue it was written in a certian way or order, it doesn't mean that new bibles made have to be the same. If society thought that they didn't want everything in the bible to stay there, why couldn't they edit bits out to make it more appropriate to today's society?

They do.

There are several books missing from the bible that the church excluded.

[magikarpy]

What about noah's ark? I'm assuming god killed the rest of those people with his rain? If not then catholic schools don't teach enough :/

I think the Christian community should just get over it. More and more people are feeling comfortable enough to come out and it's becoming increasingly likley that religious figures will eventually come out (those who are gay, naturally..).

Face it Christians, homosexuality is part of the world now, instead of fighting it and making yourself look like (giggle, even MORE like) huge bigots, just accept it. Your not going to make it go away.

I made a mistake in my post. Nowhere in the new testament does he commit "genocide".

You think the christian community should just get over it? I suppose the vegetarians should get over it too? Eating meat is part of society.

[Peace God]

I suppose the vegetarians should get over it too?
im over it :cool:

[bmurdock60]

it's not the issue of gay people and being gay. it's more hate the sin not the sinner so honestly

[Death]

Why the above is wrong has already been stated several times. Homosexuality is a 'sin' because God homophobicly chose to make it a 'sin'. By no means does that make it wrong. In fact, I really can't see why homosexuality is wrong at all. Who are you hurting and how?

[Magus]

Homosexuality is a 'sin' because God homophobicly chose to make it a 'sin'. By no means does that make it wrong. In fact, I really can't see why homosexuality is wrong at all.

Homophobicly?

Homosexuality is a sin because it is immoral, demented and deviated(As perceived by the religion). And respectively, in what way it isn't?

Simple attraction to young male(Male's case) is natural(Which occurs in every male) - according to Sigmund Freud.

Becoming a full-fledged homosexual is a totally different story.

Your turn.

[Death]

Homophobicly?

You know what I mean.

Homosexuality is a sin because it is immoral, demented and deviated

But why does religion view it like that? That's no answer - especially given the fact that homosexuality is found in other animals quite commonly, so it's clearly natural.

Simple attraction to young male(Male's case) is natural(Which occurs in every male) - according to Sigmund Freud.

It's good to know that you get open-mindedness in religion, but some of the narrow-minded Christians (liberal protestants - no offense) even go as far as to feel that simple same-sex attraction is wrong - which is immoral and therefore hypocritical seeing that one cannot control it.

Becoming a full-fledged homosexual is a totally different story.

If you are referring to homosexual sex, why is that wrong? Is it because it's sex which isn't procreating? If so, are you also against contraception and masturbation?

Your turn.

Taken.

[INFERNO]

The modern-day translations are analyzed HERE (http://www.otkenyer.hu/truluck/six_bible_passages.html) as it gives some historical and cultural views of each passage for better interpretation.

I haven't read all 10 pages but I have read the last few so the first thing to clear up is this: homosexuality, at least the word never existed in the bible. In the ancient texts, the word that was used was "arsenokoites". Unfortunately, the meaning of this word is still in debate because whenever it was used, it's meaning was often not stated, it was used relatively few times in the bible with differing scenarios and thus, the view that it means homosexual is false. Hence, the bible does not ever state in the ancient texts anything about homosexuality, homosexual sex or other homosexual acts being wrong. Translated versions do state this however, when examined by researchers, the meaning of it being homosexual is based on pretty much nothing.

Sources: HERE (http://www.otkenyer.hu/truluck/six_bible_passages.html), HERE (http://www.gaychristian101.com/Define-Arsenokoites.html)

In contrast, others have stated that it does mean homosexual sex, along with "malakos", however, it does not refer in any way to the orientation or homosexual desires, just the sexual acts. So by this view, if two homosexuals do not have any homosexual sex, then no sin has been committed from their homosexual engagements. Even people who do support this view also state that the meaning of "malakos" and "arsenokoites" depends on the situation where it is used and that the two words are quite vague.

Source: HERE (http://www.dtl.org/ethics/article/homosexuals.htm)

The point I am making is that the ancient texts do not condemn homosexuality as it is perceived today. Researchers in the field stated it's unknown why it was spun to mean homosexuality in its entirety when the ancient texts state nothing of the sort. The ones who do believe it does condemn all forms of homosexuality are not following the ancient texts of their bible, they're following the modern translations which isn't accepted by researchers.

[ThomasB.]

If god says gay is wrong. God is wrong. My opinion anyway. ;)

EDIT: Someone gave me bad rep for this saying that it was homophobic. How the hell is it?

[Death]

Well there's certainly no reason why everything Christians (or the Bible) say has to be correct at all. And yes, the same can be said for anyone.

[xHunterXloganx]

I feel its wrong that a church(christan) can say what your sexuality is, it makes me uber mad! (im wiccan)

[The Dark Lord]

What right is it of the churches to dictate people's opinion of homosexuality. If people base their lifestyle around what the church/bible believes then presumably gay people should be stoned to death? Either believe in the whole bible, or none of it

[The Dark Lord]

God loves them but they wont enter teh kingdom. And christians are not against Gays. were against gayism. We love all men and therfor we also love gays.

What is "gayism"? If that is the case why does the Pope encourage homophobia and there is no such thing as the "kingdom" but if you love gay people, why not let them into the "kingdom"?

[Decapitated]

God made adam and eve! Not adam and steve!

[Perseus]

God made adam and eve! Not adam and steve!

Lol, you silly. Go back to your cave, now.

[Peace God]

God made adam and eve! Not adam and steve!
so incest is better than homosexuality?

[Decapitated]

so incest is better than homosexuality?

No! Never with family.

[Clawhammer]

The incest in genesis was a method of survival, but I'm still pondering that. It was what had to be done, and that was before God gave us the commandments against it. I have to review that area in scripture before I can have a solid foundation for my opinion on this matter, but this is my first glance.