Christianity against Gay People

[Disco Jones]

"gayism" is a fantastic word, thank you for giving me that

[Peace God]

No! Never with family.
then why did he make just Adam and Eve?...

[Perseus]

then why did he make just Adam and Eve?...

Haha, I know where you're going with this. :P

[Sage]

No! Never with family.

So who did Adam and Eve's children reproduce with? Cite specific bible passages to support your argument.

[Hanyo]

Interesting discussions… I can see people feel strongly on this subject. There seem to be a LOT of assumptions and claims about what the bibles says, some of which are not quite true…

Death – Edit the bible to remove portions that society didn’t want in it? That wouldn’t be a bible any more, that would be something else. You can’t edit “God’s word”, other than correcting the translation to more closely match what the original texts said. If you chose to write it so that it says what YOU want it to, its not God’s word anymore, its yours. That would make it pointless to read.

The citation from the Bible that verifies my claim is 2nd Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,”

The first part is the point, “inspired of God”, it means he was the real author.

The proof to back up that claim is 1 Thessalonians 2:13 “Indeed, that is why we also thank God incessantly, because when YOU received God’s word, which YOU heard from us, YOU accepted it, not as the word of men, but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God, which is also at work in YOU believers.”

This tell us that God’s word (the Bible) came from God, not men. But men physically wrote it you say? That’s true, but a secretary might be the person who physically types up a letter, FOR HIS/HER BOSS, but it’s the boss’s message.

Mojo jojo – several books missing that the church excluded?? This sounds lie-ish… there’s hundreds of millions of copies of the Bible in circulation, it’s by far the most popular book in the world, and has been for a long time. True, in the medieval times the “church” tried to prevent the general public from getting copies of the bible, and fought hard to prevent it from being mass produced because it would mean that people could read it for themselves, and not be slaves to the church… but if they had omitted portions of the Bible, I think people would’ve been able to figure that out. Please cite your source that makes you think portions were cut.

Death – God choosing to make homosexuality a sin doesn’t make it wrong? What you’re talking about is moral relativism. If God doesn’t have authority to tell us what is right and wrong, then who does? You ARE hurting people with it, you’re just not aware of it. It’s not hurting anyone physically, but you’re hurting them spiritually. Its wrong in God’s eyes, so you’re hurting your relationship with God. If he created the world and is all-powerful, I would say that’s a pretty important relationship. In my opinion, the MOST important.

Religion (True Christianity anyway) views homosexuality as something disgusting, because God told us it was. See Leviticus 20:13 “ “’And when a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing.””

This is the same section where God tells us that its wrong to have sex with our mom or dad, or brother or sister, aunts uncles etc, and also continues on to say doing it with animals is wrong as well.

Obviously God created human’s physical design for a man and a woman to go together. So homosexuality is wrong because its against what God intended for us. But, that’s not the end of the story. God is also very against fornication (sex between anyone who is not a husband and wife married to each other).

On your comment about same sex attraction also being considered wrong… well, it’s the activity that is considered wrong, I don’t see how thoughts can be held against you, but we are definitely warned in the Bible against having wrongful desires. You can’t always control what thoughts come to mind, but you don’t have to cultivate it intentionally, and you can choose to be what you want.

The idea that sex other than for the purpose of procreating is wrong is not in the Bible. God did intend for us to enjoy it and for it to strengthen couples relationships, he just wants it to be in a healthy context because he cares about us, which is why he says it should only be between a husband and his wife.

Thomas – You’re a nice guy, I think. You’re entitled to your opinion, but do you really want to be against God?

Death – All humans are imperfect, so of course the fact of someone being Christian doesn’t give anyone authority to decide what is good or bad. The Bible however comes from God, so that is the reason why it is correct.

HunterXlogan – it IS wrong for the church to decide on their own what is right and wrong. Christians are supposed to look to the Bible for answers, people who are knowledgeable about it can help point you to where to look, but they don’t have authority to make new rules or change old ones.

Matty, yes, people should believe in the whole Bible. Its important to have accurate and detailed knowledge of it though. Yes, the penalty for most of the sexual immorality including but not limited to homosexuality, according to Mosaic Law was death. HOWEVER, Jesus’ sacrificed blood covers us for our sins AND frees us from Mosaic Law, so we’re no longer under obligation to punish people for it. The principles of what constitutes proper conduct haven’t changed, but we’re not supposed to enforce the old punishments. Its more like individual personal accountability now.

I don’t mean to start fights with Catholics, but the Catholic Church is false religion. The Pope is not a person you should listen to if you want God’s opinion. What Jack90 is talking about in ref to the kingdom is a reference to rule by God in judgment day, after Armageddon. God wouldn’t let gay people into the kingdom (probably) because as we already established, God doesn’t like people to engage in that type of conduct. You have a choice of whether or not to obey, so its not like he’s singling you out randomly for exclusion. You can choose at any time to obey his commandments and advice. If you chose to disobey, wouldn’t that be like rebellion? If you were the ruler of a kingdom, would you want rebels in your kingdom, who may encourage others to rebel also?

Sorrowsingsoftly – Interesting points… if you’re trying to be a true Christian though, its better to not rely on your own understanding. Study the Bible more, then you’ll understand things better. You have an excellent point about love though. God’s foremost quality is love, so we should love people and take care of each other. Where does it say in the Bible that God will reward us in the next life? It sounds like you’re mixing in Buddhist or Hindu ideas about reincarnation. Also we are not supposed to go to Heaven, we’re supposed to live on earth.

Deschain – The bible doesn’t really say who Adam and Eve’s children reproduced with, but logically, who else was there than their own brothers and sisters? It wasn’t wrong then to have relations with your own family until later, when God told us that it was.

[The Batman]

Mojo jojo – several books missing that the church excluded?? This sounds lie-ish… there’s hundreds of millions of copies of the Bible in circulation, it’s by far the most popular book in the world, and has been for a long time. True, in the medieval times the “church” tried to prevent the general public from getting copies of the bible, and fought hard to prevent it from being mass produced because it would mean that people could read it for themselves, and not be slaves to the church… but if they had omitted portions of the Bible, I think people would’ve been able to figure that out. Please cite your source that makes you think portions were cut.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banned_from_the_Bible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banned_from_the_Bible_II
There were two documentaries on the History Channel about it called Banned from the Bible I and II.
List of the ones that are no longer apart of it.
The Life of Adam and Eve
The Book of Enoch
The Book of Jubilees
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
Proto-Gospel of James
The Gnostic Scriptures of Nag Hammadi
The Gospel of Mary
The Gospel of Nicodemus
The Apocalypse of Peter
Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_Hammadi_library)The Testament of Solomon
The Zohar (The Book of Splendor)
The Alphabet of Ben-Sira
Joseph and Aseneth
The Septuagint
Bel and the Dragon
The Acts of Peter
The Acts of Paul and Thecla
Mar Saba letter and The Secret Gospel of Mark
The Gospel of Judas

[Perseus]

Interesting discussions… I can see people feel strongly on this subject. There seem to be a LOT of assumptions and claims about what the bibles says, some of which are not quite true…

Death – Edit the bible to remove portions that society didn’t want in it? That wouldn’t be a bible any more, that would be something else. You can’t edit “God’s word”, other than correcting the translation to more closely match what the original texts said. If you chose to write it so that it says what YOU want it to, its not God’s word anymore, its yours. That would make it pointless to read.

The citation from the Bible that verifies my claim is 2nd Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,”

The first part is the point, “inspired of God”, it means he was the real author.

The proof to back up that claim is 1 Thessalonians 2:13 “Indeed, that is why we also thank God incessantly, because when YOU received God’s word, which YOU heard from us, YOU accepted it, not as the word of men, but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God, which is also at work in YOU believers.”

This tell us that God’s word (the Bible) came from God, not men. But men physically wrote it you say? That’s true, but a secretary might be the person who physically types up a letter, FOR HIS/HER BOSS, but it’s the boss’s message.


Deschain – The bible doesn’t really say who Adam and Eve’s children reproduced with, but logically, who else was there than their own brothers and sisters? It wasn’t wrong then to have relations with your own family until later, when God told us that it was.

There are other books of the Bible, of whom which were not put into the Bible by the Catholic Church because they didn't think it belonged. And also, to what you told Deschain, that's just silly and trying to get around it.

[Peace God]

The bible doesn’t really say who Adam and Eve’s children reproduced with, but logically, who else was there than their own brothers and sisters? It wasn’t wrong then to have relations with your own family until later, when God told us that it was.
But if Adam & Eve were the first people...then that means we're ALL family.

[Clawhammer]

But if Adam & Eve were the first people...then that means we're ALL family.

Sort of. Keep in mind that there are millions of people out there today, we're all extremely distantly related according to the Bible.

[INFERNO]

Although you responded to other posters and not myself, there are a few of your responses to others I think are nonsense or unsure what you are saying.


The first part is the point, “inspired of God”, it means he was the real author.

You cant really argue this without arguing it means human author(s) were inspired by god. You're using the bible to argue for the bible being made by someone. Both logically and through laymen understanding, this is a circular argument as well as committing the bare assertion fallacy whereby you have made the assumption that the contents of the bible are true without knowledge or evidence from outside the bible.


This tell us that God’s word (the Bible) came from God, not men. But men physically wrote it you say? That’s true, but a secretary might be the person who physically types up a letter, FOR HIS/HER BOSS, but it’s the boss’s message.

Indeed it is the boss' message but now comes the question, does the secretary write down exactly what the boss has said? For the ancient text, possibly but through the numerous translations, the meanings do become distorted because you cannot translate from language-to-language perfectly. Let me give you an example of what I mean. In French, the word "plein" can mean drunk, full (as in not hungry) or pregnant in English. However, other words can be used also depending on the person's wants. So, if the boss tells the secretary to write down that he is full (not hungry), she may use the word "plein" and tell this to people he has appointments with who may think the boss is drunk and not full. If the boss is female, her clients may also think she's pregnant in addition to possibly drunk or full.

Do you see how this message of just one simple word can get obscured through just one translation? Think of the numerous translations the bible has gone through and you'll see the messages may become obscured.

However, for the same language, when people communicate, they often don't say the message word-for-word, they'll summarize it through different words and it becomes the telephone game, whereby just in one language, the meaning gets obscured.

Taking this into consideration with the numerous languages and you'll see how whatever is said in the bible must have doubts and uncertainty as to if it is what it actually meant. Another example is the post I made on the previous page.


Religion (True Christianity anyway) views homosexuality as something disgusting, because God told us it was. See Leviticus 20:13 “ “’And when a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing.””

See the post I made about homosexuality in this thread on the third page. It addresses this very thing from the ancient texts.


Obviously God created human’s physical design for a man and a woman to go together. So homosexuality is wrong because its against what God intended for us. But, that’s not the end of the story. God is also very against fornication (sex between anyone who is not a husband and wife married to each other).

Then why do males have a prostate gland, which is homologous to female's Skene's gland (for sexual arousal)? It seems fitting that of course females have a vagina and males have a penis so therefore that's how sex is meant to be but when you begin looking in detail, it's not so clear and doesn't make sense.


Death – All humans are imperfect, so of course the fact of someone being Christian doesn’t give anyone authority to decide what is good or bad. The Bible however comes from God, so that is the reason why it is correct.

Oh come on, this is an argument of a five-year old. I can argue using this very same logic to show that the other roughly 365 theistic beliefs are all true because their god is correct. If you deny the fact I can do this, you deny your own argument. If you accept this, then it shows your argument is moot.


Deschain – The bible doesn’t really say who Adam and Eve’s children reproduced with, but logically, who else was there than their own brothers and sisters? It wasn’t wrong then to have relations with your own family until later, when God told us that it was.

So if god did not say incest is wrong, you would have no problem having sex with a sibling if you wanted and had a sibling? If god said that burning your sister alive was the right thing to do, then you would do so? Using this argument makes all these possibilities open because you argument comes down to this: if god says to do _____ then doing ______ is right because god says _____ is right. You can argue with relevance to the bible that burning your sister alive is wrong but that argument gets you nowhere because you still adhere to the same basic argument design.

[Clawhammer]

I am a Christian, if I am to put a name to what I believe because I don't have a specific opinion and condemn other opinions as false. The prejudice against homosexuals in many churches today is a sin in my eyes. This act goes against all that I believe, how can I call myself a follower of God if I demonstrate hate to the people He loves? My sister is a homosexual, and I love her still. I would still gladly lay down my own life for her if such a sacrifice was necessary, because she still loves me. We are family, it is what we are called to do. However, I do not encourage her lifestyle just as I do not condemn it. I meditate on this subject often, and the answers still do not present themselves as clearly as I wish they would.

It is my personal belief that in the church, a homosexual is a person with a greater burden to bear. It says in scripture that when people no longer loved God, He let them love each other as they exchanged the natural for the unnatural. There is no doubt in my mind that the body of a man and the body of a woman were made for each other, that is why homosexuals cannot have their own children. If there is a member in the church who is a homosexual, that individual is given a greater burden to bear than any heterosexual can imagine. They fear becoming an outcast, being shunned by those they once called friends, being looked down upon by their families. My sister began to cut herself to try to relieve some of the inner pain.

Homosexuals in the Christian church are not called to be miraculously healed of their condition and like the opposite sex again, they are called to carry their cross as Christ carried His for a greater reward in the next life. We as humans can never stop sinning as Christian doctrine teaches. If this is true, how do we get to heaven and gain God's acceptance? We cannot beat sin permanently, we are humans. However, the Bible says the we are called to fight it, whether we beat it or not. Carry our cross to the end, maybe not perfectly, but if we follow through, the Bible says that God will reward us in the next life.

Thanks for reading this, it's just my opinion, I'm not trying to force it on anybody.

[Sith Lord 13]

Go back and read the original Hebrew. The earliest versions of the bible have Yahweh as part of a group of gods. He goes off on his own and creates the garden. Cain later mates with the "others" who were created by the rest of the gods.

[The Dark Lord]

Matty, yes, people should believe in the whole Bible. Its important to have accurate and detailed knowledge of it though. Yes, the penalty for most of the sexual immorality including but not limited to homosexuality, according to Mosaic Law was death. HOWEVER, Jesus’ sacrificed blood covers us for our sins AND frees us from Mosaic Law, so we’re no longer under obligation to punish people for it. The principles of what constitutes proper conduct haven’t changed, but we’re not supposed to enforce the old punishments. Its more like individual personal accountability now.

I don’t mean to start fights with Catholics, but the Catholic Church is false religion. The Pope is not a person you should listen to if you want God’s opinion. What Jack90 is talking about in ref to the kingdom is a reference to rule by God in judgment day, after Armageddon. God wouldn’t let gay people into the kingdom (probably) because as we already established, God doesn’t like people to engage in that type of conduct. You have a choice of whether or not to obey, so its not like he’s singling you out randomly for exclusion. You can choose at any time to obey his commandments and advice. If you chose to disobey, wouldn’t that be like rebellion? If you were the ruler of a kingdom, would you want rebels in your kingdom, who may encourage others to rebel also?

You are very naive, ignorant and homophobic. You proceed from a false assumption: We don't all believe in God and the bible. I don't quite understand what a false religion is, it sounds like one which disagrees with your beliefs. I am impressed with your ability to conclude that homosexuality is wrong based on what the bible says. The unbelievable hypocrise of bible readers is surreal, either do it all or do nothing. You cannot pick and choose what parts of the bible you believe

[Death]

^^Agreed. How about you just go out a methodically wipe out every non-Christian or homosexual or teenager who might have disobeyed their parents. Hell, wipe out every long-haired male, every person who has touched a stick on Sunday, and so on and so forth. I think you'd be left with no-one. So stop blabbering on and find a more appropriate reason to hate homosexuals, because yours are simply grabbed from bits of the Bible that you decide that you agree with. How childish. If you truly believe that you are hurting people for homosexuality, you are truly ignorant. If God created homosexuals and are now condemning people because of it, he is clearly evil. So don't waste your excuses on any of us.

EDIT: In fact Hanyo, all you are doing is helping prove the notion of the topic: 'Christianity against Gay People'. I don't have a problem with Christians on the whole, but you're giving them a bad name.

[INFERNO]

I mentioned this I think 1 or 2 pages back and many Christians whom I say this to seem to ignore it out of inability to acknowledge what it implies. In the scriptures, two Greek words are found: "arsenokoites" and "malakos". In modern bibles, the first gets translated to homosexuality yet when you actually look its usage up in the ancient texts, that's not really what it means as it means various things and is context-dependent. When used by Paul, it is not clear what he meant by using it as it can mean murder, heterosexual sex, etc... . It is used only 76 times in the bible and 56 of these times it does not mean homosexual sex or homosexuality, yet for unknown reasons modern bibles translated it as such. HERE (http://www.gaychristian101.com/Arsenokoites.html)

"Malakos" is another Greek that was used with arsenokoites (or some variation) in Paul and it too does not mean homosexuality: it was used for referring to the victims of sex or sexual abuse from men, such as slaves, rape, prostitutes, underage male prostitutes for heterosexual sex, pedophilia, etc... . When first translated to English, it carried a derogatory meaning or one of calling someone weak, perhaps feminite but not effiminite. Here too, for some unknown reason, from King James Version of the bible and onwards it was translated to effeminite and thus to homosexuality despite never having that meaning. HERE (http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/Malakos.php)

This is something to consider in the Christianity against homosexual debate: those who are against homosexuals are not following what the actual bible was in Greek and shows a clear fallacy that by not bothering to look up even the entymology of the words, the translated bible is assumed true. I've never had a Christian argue against this argument, the common results were being dumbfounded, ignoring what I've said and arguing the bible is true (argument which works against them).

[Peace God]

...either do it all or do nothing. You cannot pick and choose what parts of the bible you believe
Of course you can...people do it all the time. Why do you think that there are so many types of christianity, translations of the bible and disagreements between christians... not to mention the fact that the bible cant even agree with itself.

[The Dark Lord]

Of course you can...people do it all the time. Why do you think that there are so many types of christianity, translations of the bible and disagreements between christians... not to mention the fact that the bible cant even agree with itself.

You can't consider yourself a true christian if you don't follow the bible exactly.

[Clawhammer]

not to mention the fact that the bible cant even agree with itself.

An example of where the Bible disagrees with itself would be?

[Death]

There's plenty. You just have to devote some time to reading it. Or you could click here (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#good_to_all).

[Peace God]

An example of where the Bible disagrees with itself would be?

RB3g6mXLEKk

You can't consider yourself a true christian if you don't follow the bible exactly.
did you not read what i said?...nobody follows the bible exactly not even the bible itself

[Lights]

It's so juvenile that being in love with someone of the same gender is considered a sin.

[Magus]

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."
~Leviticus 18:22

[Continuum]

God's love is universal. That's all that is. Homophobia in Christianity is the brainchild of barbaric and medieval philosophy. Even they thought that masturbation causes blindness.

[Death]

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."
~Leviticus 18:22

Do you actually agree with that (as in it's an abomination)? What about Leviticus 20:13? "If a man lies with mankind as he lieth with a woman, they have both committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them." If you believe these things because the Bible says so, you may as well believe the second quote.

[Magus]

Do you actually agree with that (as in it's an abomination)? What about Leviticus 20:13? "If a man lies with mankind as he lieth with a woman, they have both committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them." If you believe these things because the Bible says so, you may as well believe the second quote.

Both of them has the same message. Are we apostates not to believe in them? Where is the deviation in those two verses?

[Death]

One says they must die. Do you truly believe that?

[Magus]

One says they must die. Do you truly believe that?

We all are going to die. There is no escape from death. Now, we cannot collect millions of gay population and kill them. This feat is impossible. It became highly contagious hence an abomination.

[INFERNO]

Levicitus 18 and 20 are not really against homosexuality when you look and think about it. They address only the sexual acts but it does not say that the person needs to have a desire for one another. That is, it simply says "don't have anal sex", nothing about "homosexuals shall not have anal sex". Nowhere in there does it say anything about having love for the sexual partner, which is what is part of the definition of homosexuality.

My point is this:

we cannot collect millions of gay population and kill them

Is not what the bible says nor commands, it is what Christians in the past, present and future want it to say.

[CaliKid24]

I honestly don't care what any religion teaches. If I'm against it I won't follow it. It bothers me though when the government doesn't remember seperation of church and state. And i think that the reason gay marriage is so controversial is religion is against it. So I am not against the followers of the religion, only the followers that don't treat everyone equal.

[The Dark Lord]

We all are going to die. There is no escape from death. Now, we cannot collect millions of gay population and kill them. This feat is impossible. It became highly contagious hence an abomination.

Is this a serious post? You have have described killing millions of gays as a "feat" and homosexuality as "contagious". You are disgusting.

[Death]

We all are going to die. There is no escape from death. Now, we cannot collect millions of gay population and kill them. This feat is impossible. It became highly contagious hence an abomination.

In the past, you've said that I hate Christianity. Even though this isn't true, what you've just said isn't exactly a reason to like it.

[Lights]

Is this a serious post? You have have described killing millions of gays as a "feat" and homosexuality as "contagious". You are disgusting.

You're right - her comment was discusting.
What she was saying is that if possible, she'd like to see the gay population killed but because it's not possible, she'll settle for slagging them off instead.

[CaliKid24]

Wow reading what one of the people said about they agree with killing them/us, really makes me pessimistic towards the followers of christianity. It affirms my opinIon that Christianity is Very descriminatory and i would go out trash talking Christians but I don't want to lower myself to there level.

[The Batman]

No where in that post did he say "I agree with lining up gays and killing them"

[CaliKid24]

No where in that post did he say "I agree with lining up gays and killing them"

Read the whole conversation

[Death]

No where in that post did he say "I agree with lining up gays and killing them"

But he said that being a Christian, he was to believe that the bible verse that promoted killing homosexuals was right, so in a way he did. Besides, either way, he insulted them.

[Magus]

Is this a serious post? You have have described killing millions of gays as a "feat" and homosexuality as "contagious". You are disgusting.

Am I disgusting? And Homosexuality which is detested by God and many of the Men is not disgusting.

Furthermore, I was just performing a role. By doing this 'role' I might have a better understanding in the stance of "Christianity against Gay People".

In the past, you've said that I hate Christianity. Even though this isn't true, what you've just said isn't exactly a reason to like it.

I hate Christianity? Where and when did I said that?! Was it you? Gee, problem in engresh. Sorry, I couldn't parse the second sentence, let alone the first one.

You're right - her comment was discusting.
What she was saying is that if possible, she'd like to see the gay population killed but because it's not possible, she'll settle for slagging them off instead.

It is "Disgusting"
I am male if you haven't noticed. It is a shame that you took a look at Bill Kaulitz(Who is a Boy) and you thought that it was me and that I am a girl.
Well, because of misinterpretation that we get from the Bible. And I don't want to see "the gay population" killed. And I didn't insult anyone.
Obviously it was you who have blindingly minus rep-ed me. I am glad that it wasn't someone else - perhaps they understood my message.

But he said that being a Christian, he was to believe that the bible verse that promoted killing homosexuals was right, so in a way he did. Besides, either way, he insulted them.

Now, must you scrutinize me with the "He insulted them"? Because I did not.
Why shouldn't I "Believe" in what the Bible verses say? Because it was misinterpreted, mistranslated and or morally wrong?

[starrburst]

Gays are people too y'know?! They also have feelings, and a life to live. Stop criticizing them, I thought that Christianity was also about loving everybody equally?! I guess I was wrong? ^^

[Lights]

Actually I never gave you any rep at all. I've been on my iPod Touch in the past few days which doesn't allow me to give rep. Check with an admin if you really don't believe me.
I really dislike your views but I can't rep you down for your opinion.

And also, I really don't appreciate you correcting a spelling mistake of mine when you can't even construct sentences correctly:

"Obviously it was you who have blindingly minus rep-ed me."

Should be has.

[INFERNO]

Am I disgusting? And Homosexuality which is detested by God and many of the Men is not disgusting.

In the bible, at most, god finds only same-sex intercourse disgusting, not the homosexual orientation and homosexual emotions to another.


I hate Christianity? Where and when did I said that?! Was it you? Gee, problem in engresh. Sorry, I couldn't parse the second sentence, let alone the first one.

That is not what he said; he said that in the past you accused him of hating Christianity, not that he accused you of it.



Well, because of misinterpretation that we get from the Bible. And I don't want to see "the gay population" killed. And I didn't insult anyone.

You clearly stated that homosexuality in disgusting, which means you have called those who are of homosexual nature to have a disgusting orientation. So yes, you did insult them. It's like saying all tall people over 6 ft 5 are disgusting, you insult a characteristic of the person and the person themself.


Obviously it was you who have blindingly minus rep-ed me. I am glad that it wasn't someone else - perhaps they understood my message.
[/LIST]

Rep points don't matter at all but if they're this important that you'll make a fuss over it, I'll give you a positive rep and we'll all stay happy over this silly rep issue.


Why shouldn't I "Believe" in what the Bible verses say? Because it was misinterpreted, mistranslated and or morally wrong?

Believe in what you want but yes, there are clear mistranslations and misinterpretations in the bible, including the issue of god hating/liking homosexuals.

[Magus]

Actually I never.............ur opinion.

My view was on the "Christian" stance - And I haven't stated any opinion. And the rep is a silly thing, and I don't really care about it.


And also, I really don't appreciate you correcting a spelling mistake of mine when you can't even construct sentences correctly:

"Obviously it was you who have blindingly minus rep-ed me."

Should be has.
Yes, I am not a native English Speaker, plus I don't live in an English speaking community. Yes, it is a shame to make that minute mistake. But that does not render my 'English' inferior to yours or anyone else. (Shouldn't it be "you who had"? :what: has, had, have, has had; I always had trouble with it)

In the bible, at most, god finds only same-sex intercourse disgusting, not the homosexual orientation and homosexual emotions to another.
We all agree on this. Even Islam and Judaism agree on this. The orientation isn't the issue. We all have subtle attraction to the same gender. Whether it is physical or emotional attractions, we do have it and it is undeniable.

In Islam; anal sex is prohibited and considered Haram and one of the major sins. It is also called "Lewat" which was derived from "Lot". There are two "Lewat" - Minor Lewat and Major Lewat. Minor would be the Anal penetration of a female. The Major Lewat is same as minor but the case is of male anal penetration. That's where it goes, the whole Qu'ran doesn't condemn men loving one another; it is this sexual act that is condemned. In this world, there are men who are in relationship but never engaged in any sexual act, am I right so far?

Unfortunately, this is the discussion about "Christianity against Gay People", otherwise I would have brought other religions' perspective on homosexuality to further my point.

In Japan. Love between Men is considered the "Purest Form Of Love"(Just I thought of bringing this :yawn: )


That is not what he said; he said that in the past you accused him of hating Christianity, not that he accused you of it.
Yes, that. In the other thread(God vs. Satan - that's what my memory tells me). But I never brought in the word "Hate".

You clearly stated that homosexuality in disgusting
Sorry, I couldn't parse this.

I never said anything against Homosexuality prior to my quotation of the Bible. Again, I was playing a role that would be considered as a homophobic, biased Christian, no?

It would be a graceful act to actually write the post number and quote me where I have said "Homosexuality is Disgusting" directly.

These are some of the posts which are made prior to the bible quotation.

Just what as what you say about bible - Anal sex and not the love.
Of course love is okay, but not in the form of gang raping - that's not love.


Homosexuality is a sin because it is immoral, demented and deviated(As perceived by the religion). And respectively, in what way it isn't?
Simple attraction to young male(Male's case) is natural(Which occurs in every male) - according to Sigmund Freud.
Becoming a full-fledged homosexual is a totally different story.

Rep points ......... issue.

The issue of "Rep points" is insignificant. But I'd like to see who it was that gave the negative rep. without fully understanding what I was conveying.

Believe in what you want but yes, there are clear mistranslations and misinterpretations in the bible, including the issue of god hating/liking homosexuals.
If you are saying that what bible actually condemn was the "Anal Sex" and not "Homosexual Orientation" and that because of mistranslation and misinterpretation it came out more aggressive to the orientation. Then I am totally fine with it and wholeheartedly agree with you.

But, that doesn't matter to me much. Because I am irreligious, and I don't have a "Christian" background.

Side notes:
And yes. I consider my self bisexual more than homosexual. Why? Because I do have slight attraction to the opposite gender; in contrast to male, which is obviously more. Yeah - LGBT here.

Final words: I am not a Christian - I Never was a Christian

[Death]

I hate Christianity? Where and when did I said that?! Was it you? Gee, problem in engresh. Sorry, I couldn't parse the second sentence, let alone the first one.

Er, you seem to have completely misunderstood what I said. I've said that you have accused me of hating Christianity in the past, which is ironic.

Now, must you scrutinize me with the "He insulted them"? Because I did not. Why shouldn't I "Believe" in what the Bible verses say? Because it was misinterpreted, mistranslated and or morally wrong?

You shouldn't believe the bits in the bible involving killing these people because they are both archaic (inapplicable to today's society), and yes, they are clearly wrong. Are you telling me that murder is justified if it is done to a homosexual?

[Magus]

Er, you..... ironic.
Well, I didn't accuse you of "Hating" Christianity. And if I did, then please do write the post number and in which thread and quote me. :yes:

And, I don't see the irony.


You shouldn't believe the bits in the bible involving killing these people because they are both archaic (inapplicable to today's society), and yes, they are clearly wrong. Are you telling me that murder is justified if it is done to a homosexual?

No my friend. If I see the Bible as misinterpreted, mistranslated and defiled(added words) then I absolutely will ignore bible and leave it in the dust. But if I see that there is no mistake in it and it is valid, I will follow it.

Homosexual; depends on what the religion says in the light of Homosexuality, and depends on the accusation that's upon the individual.

Let me be a bit frank. There are a lot of Homosexual. Some people do not deny their homosexuality and come out; some don't. Some of them are religious, and some of them aren't. But as Inferno said, Anal Sex is condemned, not the person who is Homosexual. I agree on this.

I cannot say that it is justified if a "murder" is done to a homosexual or not because the Bible says so. No, I am sorry, but I am unqualified to answer this question.

[jesusfreak77]

I believe that God has called us fellow believers to b lovers of his people..that means gays, suicidal people, porn stars, etc. And i dont understand y some christians think its ok to judge gay people, when in reality all sin is equal..i mean who r we to judge!? we were all guilty, bound by the chains of sin. Yet God sent his only son, the prince of heaven and earth to b killed, mocked, and abused for our mess! The way a father could send his only son for me..still, everyday is awakening. So all in all, Jesus loves gay people:) The only thing he hates is their sin, but their sin is as equal as my sin, but forever more, God will love gay people:)

[INFERNO]

We all agree on this. Even Islam and Judaism agree on this. The orientation isn't the issue. We all have subtle attraction to the same gender. Whether it is physical or emotional attractions, we do have it and it is undeniable.

You'd be amazed then at the large amounts of Christians who are opposed to the homosexual orientation as well as the homosexual sex.


Unfortunately, this is the discussion about "Christianity against Gay People", otherwise I would have brought other religions' perspective on homosexuality to further my point.

I'm not sure how using other religions to support your assertion of Christianity, Islam and Judaism but I'll leave it be.


Yes, that. In the other thread(God vs. Satan - that's what my memory tells me). But I never brought in the word "Hate".

Hate, dislike, scorn, objection, discord, resentment, disgust, etc... . All have the same general meaning.


I never said anything against Homosexuality prior to my quotation of the Bible. Again, I was playing a role that would be considered as a homophobic, biased Christian, no?

If you were playing Devil's advocate, then I apologize for being incorrect.


It would be a graceful act to actually write the post number and quote me where I have said "Homosexuality is Disgusting" directly.

Those exact words were not uttered by you however the meaning was the same. Unfortunately, having noticed you were playing Devil's advocate all this time, it is rather useless and pointless of me to write the post number. Nevertheless, I'll satisfy your request: HERE (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=890869&postcount=188)

Jesus loves gay people The only thing he hates is their sin, but their sin is as equal as my sin, but forever more, God will love gay people

People sin by doing certain actions. If the actions of homosexuals are deemed sinful, then those actions are not liked. You're effectively stating Jesus loves homosexuals yet hates homosexuals because of their actions. I state only the actions, such as the homosexual sex because that is what the bible states, unless you believe otherwise that the bible condemns homosexual orientation also. If so, your assertion has contradicted itself. If not, your assertion is Jesus loves people of homosexual orientation just hates any homosexual acts they perform. Dodgy way of showing love.

[CaliKid24]

Someone clarify. Does the religion condemn homosexuality or the actions involved in homosexuality? Either way it's wrong.

[The Batman]

Someone clarify. Does the religion condemn homosexuality or the actions involved in homosexuality? Either way it's wrong.

Do your own research. The problem with the bible is that people can interpret it to mean whatever they want to. Some say it does, others say it doesn't. You just have to read it and take from it how you see it.

[CaliKid24]

Do your own research. The problem with the bible is that people can interpret it to mean whatever they want to. Some say it does, others say it doesn't. You just have to read it and take from it how you see it.

I've read most of the bible and I have read the parts that talk about gays. Either way I still believe that any God that would be so unfair to a certain group of people is not a God I want to spend eternity with. His mindset towards gays would be no better than hitlers if the bible has been interpreted right.

[Sith Lord 13]

One particular translation only condemns homosexuals who sleep with women. The problem is, as far as I know, not one of us is able to read the original language. The bible's been translated so many times, it's kind of impossible to take it at face value.

[Magus]

You'd be amazed then at the large amounts of Christians who are opposed to the homosexual orientation as well as the homosexual sex.
I think that's the base point on what this thread is about.


If you were playing Devil's advocate, then I apologize for being incorrect.

You can say that, since why I have brought down the bible verse. People wants to know what's really going on and I am one of them.


Those exact word..........est
But didn't I quote myself in my previous post #241 (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=920439&postcount=241)?
I don't know how that transited into what you are saying. Beside, you neglected what's written in the parenthesis. That would be the cause of saying such words, because it is considered as such in the said religion - even you have said it!

"Christians who are opposed to the homosexual orientation as well as the homosexual sex"

Would not an opposition use such words?

(Thanks for the new term "Devil's advocate" :yes: )

[INFERNO]

Someone clarify. Does the religion condemn homosexuality or the actions involved in homosexuality? Either way it's wrong.

The Greek versions of the bible are very obscure in whether they condemned any form of homosexuality. Chances are, it does not when you do some researching. Some say that certain ambiguous Greek words mean exactly homosexual sex but when you look at the context of their usage, that universal definition makes no sense. So in some instances, it's possible the Greek version was condemning homosexuality but given the ambiguous words they used, it's hard to know exactly what it was they meant and the context doesn't always help.

King James had the bible translated and it is known and documented he had words pertaining to this to be mistranslated and misinterpreted either accidentally or intentionally. The result is the Greek words with multiple meanings got ascribed one meaning with no reason why he chose that one meaning over the other likely meanings that the context supports. The best argument researchers today make is he wanted it to be like this for discrimination and oppression of homosexuals. Since the King James Version, the other biblical versions have the same or similar content and many believers/non-believers do not look at the ancient versions (partially because we don't have them but also because they don't understand the language or care enough to do so).

When you look at certain testimonts today, such as Levictus, it only refers to anal sex between men as forbidden, nothing about loving another man. Unfortunately, there are only a few parts of the bible that even address homosexuality and most are in Levictus, which if you read through it, such as Chapters 13 and 14, you'll realize Levictus is very fond of blood-shed and killing, sometimes in the most nonsensical ways. Given this, the best answer I have is the bible MAY condemn homosexual sex IF you accept/practice what is in Levictus and possibly Deuteronomy.


But didn't I quote myself in my previous post #241 (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=920439&postcount=241)?

Yes you did. And I told you that it is pointless of me to give you any such link in this thread where you say the exact words, "homosexuality is disgusting" because whenever you do, you were playing Devil's Advocate. Redundancy and more redundancy.


I don't know how that transited into what you are saying. Beside, you neglected what's written in the parenthesis. That would be the cause of saying such words, because it is considered as such in the said religion - even you have said it!

There's no purpose to continuing this little quarrel because the answer is you were playing Devil's Advocate when you posted such phrases and I did not realize that until you clarified it. I couldn't find the exact words in the paranthesis, hence why I neglected giving a link for them. The link I gave and the post you quoted yourself saying give the same general meaning, so it's a matter of a silly game of semantics which both of us know is going to go nowhere.


"Christians who are opposed to the homosexual orientation as well as the homosexual sex"

Would not an opposition use such words?


They may not use that exact sentence word-for-word but their sentences may carry the same meaning, depending if they were operating under the view that the bible condemns all homosexuality or only homosexual sex.

[Death]

I believe that God has called us fellow believers to b lovers of his people..that means gays, suicidal people, porn stars, etc. And i dont understand y some christians think its ok to judge gay people, when in reality all sin is equal..i mean who r we to judge!? we were all guilty, bound by the chains of sin. Yet God sent his only son, the prince of heaven and earth to b killed, mocked, and abused for our mess! The way a father could send his only son for me..still, everyday is awakening. So all in all, Jesus loves gay people:) The only thing he hates is their sin, but their sin is as equal as my sin, but forever more, God will love gay people:)

I may agree with you that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality, but using the bible to try to support that is probably a bad idea because if you read through all of it, you will find that a lot of it is both opposed to it and down right barbaric - suffice to say that God hates gays, even if Jesus doesn't.

Someone clarify. Does the religion condemn homosexuality or the actions involved in homosexuality? Either way it's wrong.

Wow, I'm so blown away from your irrefutable argument, I'm left speechless!

[world_king]

in the bible it says that a man should not sleep with a man therefore it is a sin but it also says that no sin is greater then any other sin so to lie is just as much a sin as for a person to be gay! i see no problem with gays i dont agree with their life choices but i dont hold that against them it is their life therefore their choice if that is what makes them happy then there is no reason for them to be something that they r not they r what they r (people) they still have to eat and sh*t like the rest of us!

i should add that i dont think it is a sin for a per to be gay but for that person to sleep with another person of the same sex! but that is my interpritation of of it

[Death]

Firstly, you do realise how old this thread is right? And two, why bother saying that you have no problem with homosexuality if you think it's wrong? Make up your mind. Thirdly, the bible says something, so that makes it undoubtedly true? I'm completely failing to see your logic here.

[Kaya]

I dont think its right because God says that he loves all.......ALL. Not just straights

[Delusion15]

whoa everybody i am an atheist but when we start marshaling them into the same group like that we become as bad as the ones that call us abominations and what not.

When it comes down to it there are some christians and jews and muslims who are just mean people looking for some way to vent there rage, while others there are christians and jews and muslims who help people everyday and truly do not have any malice in them.

[Death]

^^I second this. You're not homophobic because your God effectively tells you too be, you're homophobic because that is how lowly your personality is.

[ZodiacKiller]

Leviticus clearly states that gay men are abominations and rules death upon them. You cannot pick which books are "right" because then you are not following your religion. Don't give "But that's old testament and I'm christian" BS. If you beleive in any book in the old testament (think genesis) then you must beleive in all, for the new testament never says "by the way... ignore these books of the old testament, apparently they were wrong..." with no religous guide you cannot ignore specific books unless you want to betray your religion.

That said, if you hate gays I hate you.

"Wait, so I'm christian. Thus, I must hate gays. Thus, he hates me. Thus, If I'm christian, he hates me. That's mean."
Good for you sherlock.

[Break]

I am a Christian. I believe that God sent his only son to die, so that we may be forgiven of our sins. But guys, a lot of things that you hear about Christianity on the internet today are lies.
According to the bible, homosexuality itself is a sin. Therefore, I do not like it, but that doesn't mean I hate homosexuals. According to the bible, you are to love everyone. Also according to the bible, no sin is worse than another in the eyes of the lord. So yeah, homosexuality is a sin, but so is lying, stealing, cursing, adultery... (the list goes on)

EVERYONE in the world sins. God loves EVERYONE the same. Any person that calls another person out for a sin (in this case, homosexuality) is a hypocrite, and any person who calls someone out for a sin is committing a sin.

There is no thing you could ever do that would stop God from loving you.
All you have to do is ask for forgiveness. (and really mean it)

[Jagster]

Christians are freaking discriminators of gays. Seriously, if they don't like homos, then why the hell are they bothering them?

[Rainstorm]

Leviticus clearly states that gay men are abominations and rules death upon them. You cannot pick which books are "right" because then you are not following your religion. Don't give "But that's old testament and I'm christian" BS. If you beleive in any book in the old testament (think genesis) then you must beleive in all, for the new testament never says "by the way... ignore these books of the old testament, apparently they were wrong..." with no religous guide you cannot ignore specific books unless you want to betray your religion.


Clearly, you don't understand the difference of definitions in biblical terms.

When the Bible was written, oh, some thousand or so years ago, Abomination did not mean Evil or Satin-ish (Which isn't a word). Abomination in the Bible means UNCLEAN, which is why the scripture rules death upon homosexuals. The acts they did were thought to be unclean, and would cause death. Not an act of God, like a lightning strike.

The same went with eating shellfish. People thought it was unclean (an Abomination), and because it was in some cases, death would come to people who ate it.

[The Joker]

I am a Christian. I believe that God sent his only son to die, so that we may be forgiven of our sins. But guys, a lot of things that you hear about Christianity on the internet today are lies.
According to the bible, homosexuality itself is a sin. Therefore, I do not like it, but that doesn't mean I hate homosexuals. According to the bible, you are to love everyone. Also according to the bible, no sin is worse than another in the eyes of the lord. So yeah, homosexuality is a sin, but so is lying, stealing, cursing, adultery... (the list goes on)

EVERYONE in the world sins. God loves EVERYONE the same. Any person that calls another person out for a sin (in this case, homosexuality) is a hypocrite, and any person who calls someone out for a sin is committing a sin.

There is no thing you could ever do that would stop God from loving you.
All you have to do is ask for forgiveness. (and really mean it)

For forgiveness from doing what, being born?

[Peace God]

For forgiveness from doing what, being born?
lol pretty much... thanks to our grandparents adam & eve we're sinners just for being us

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin
The Fall of Man or simply the Fall refers in Christian doctrine to the transition of the first humans from a state of innocent obedience to God, to a state of guilty disobedience to God.

Some Christian denominations believe the Fall corrupted the entire natural world, including human nature, causing people to be born into original sin, a state from which they cannot attain eternal life without the gracious intervention of God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Man

[The Joker]

Ah, so under the Christian Bible, we should apologize for something we didn't do?

[Magus]

Ah, so under the Christian Bible, we should apologize for something we didn't do?

No related to the issue, but...

The Quran says that Adam initiated the fruit eating and that both Adam and Eve (Hawa) ate the forbidden fruit, for which God later forgave them, and then sent both of them down to earth as his representatives.
-
The concept of original sin does not exist in Islam, as Adam and Eve were forgiven after they repented on Earth, according to the Quran ~Wiki

[The Joker]

While I don't agree with religions, the Qu'ran one makes more sense to me.

[Peace God]

Ah, so under the Christian Bible, we should apologize for something we didn't do?
Yup...makes perfect sense, right?

[DarkHorses]

I never really got the whole idea of having to be sorry for something that was completely out of your control. Obviously we're not perfect, but how is that our fault? It's the way that God created us. I don't believe that any God who is kind and just would ask us to be repentant and sorry for the way he created us, seeing as we had no say in how we would turn out.

Sure, the Old Testament tells us that gays are an abomination, and that they are terrible sinners. But it also tells us that people who cheat on their spouses should be stoned. It also says that it's okay for a man to have more than one wife but a women is a slut if she does the same. Does that mean that we should follow those rules too?

God loves everyone, regardless of their sexuality. If you want to be gay, he will accept that. The only ones who won't are the Christians who are so brainwashed by the bible that they can't think for themselves.

[hotandgay]

i am gay and Christan(idk if thats spelled right)...it all really depends on the church/people...i always get to kno everyone in the church and become a part of it like a big family...then i tell them and there cool with it because they kno i am a sweet careing god loving gay kid

[Kaius]

Don't bump old threads please :locked: