Chat moderators

[Kahn]

John (Starstrukk) and I have a suggestion regarding the chat.

I read in the "Smart conversations" thread that some people wanted Chat moderators. Well, lets make this the thread that decides it. I know it will be the upper staff decision in the end, but lets see if the majority would like moderators.

John and I were in chat, and people start talking about the size of their penis, and how they jack off with friends. Sure, we could just leave, but I think Jeff did not donate the money for Chat to be used like this. I am not saying the moderators need to be forum moderators, and I am not saying they need the mod face or anything, they are just there to moderate the chat.

[Mr. Smithers]

Well I don't see how it couldn't be a bad idea. I hardly ever go onto the chat room, but when I do go, people seem to behave themselves usually, but I don't see a problem just having chat room moderators, then again, I wouldn't be the one to make the final decision on that, but I see the point that you are trying to make.

[CaptainObvious]

It seems like most of the time there's staff on there and therefore not too much misbehavior. I guess it comes down to how much of the time there's nobody there when bad stuff is going on, which from where I'm sitting seems to account for not much of the time - therefore, specific chat moderators would seem unnnecessary.

*edit* Of course, since by definition I'm mostly not around to see chat when I'm not available to be in it my perspective could be skewed. :P

[Harley Quinn]

Whenever I'm in chat their is always a "hey you got cam" "can I ask your dick size" ect. I think that yes, moderation could be used and I think it should be on a basis that you're in chat a lot and know what you're doing. Members/Moderators could put themselves forward. It's a good idea yes, but again not my final choice.

[Aspiringanonymous]

From what I can see, there does seem to be almost always at least one staff member in the chat during increased times of activity. However - moderation in chat is more relaxed than in the forum.

I think there is definitely a need for more clear-cut rules and moderation procedures for the chat. Discussing penis size and other questions that are commonly acceptable in P101, is an annoyance of course - but isn't technically breaking any rules.

I'll be honest and say that oftentimes I won't know what to do when a troll enters the chat and starts interrupting a good conversation - if they are simply being annoying and not actually saying anything that could warrant a ban.

[Kahn]

I am always in chat, and almost always, whenever there is not a moderator, someone comes in asking about camming, sexuality, if it is a dirty chat, etc. Usually moderators aren't in there in the morning, and when I am someone always comes in when I'm having a discussion asking if someone wants to cam, or if anyone wants to dirty chat. Therefore I have to end my discussion and leave because I am not dealing with this person.

[2D]

Adam's basically said everything I think. and if this does come to pass I'm in chat most of the day.

[Antares]

I think this has been considered before but just more normal mods were added.

Honestly, personally, I think that they are unnecessary. People just need to be vigilantes.

Report inappropriate behavior by taking a screen shot or telling an admin the exact time and user and it will be handled effectively.

[Iron Man]

Oh, I think it would be an excellent idea. A lot of people, including me, have been bashed in there because of the lack of a moderator presence. People say whatever they want in there, including hurtful things.

[BlackBetty]

All the stuff happenes when mods arent there. I think there should be mod for chat.....

[CaptainObvious]

All the stuff happenes when mods arent there. I think there should be mod for chat.....

Yes except that there's a point at which adding more mods doesn't necessarily help that. 100% moderator presence is never going to happen, even if you were to add 3 or 4 chat moderators. And it would create additional complications.

Anyways, I agree with John. If someone does something against the rules that you witness while no mod is around to deal with it, report it.

[2D]

Anyways, I agree with John. If someone does something against the rules that you witness while no mod is around to deal with it, report it.

That's not what we're on about. We mean at the moment when it happens you can't do anything. Sure we can report it but that does nada when someone is fucking up a conversation with cam questions.

[Maverick]

I'm really in favor of it.

[AllThatIsLeft]

If it counts for anything. I wouldn't mind being Chat Mod.

[Aspiringanonymous]

I think this has been considered before but just more normal mods were added.

Honestly, personally, I think that they are unnecessary. People just need to be vigilantes.

Report inappropriate behavior by taking a screen shot or telling an admin the exact time and user and it will be handled effectively.

Yes except that there's a point at which adding more mods doesn't necessarily help that. 100% moderator presence is never going to happen, even if you were to add 3 or 4 chat moderators. And it would create additional complications.

Anyways, I agree with John. If someone does something against the rules that you witness while no mod is around to deal with it, report it.
I'm going to agree with John and David here.

If someone comes along and starts to be annoying - report and ignore them - to an extent, it's the same concept as with posts in the forums. There won't always be a staff member guaranteed online, especially during times of decreased activity, but reports are dealt with as soon as it becomes possible.

It's a well-intending suggestion - but I, too, question its necessity and the complications it may bring - ignore feature is there for a reason.

[Gumleaf]

just so you all know, the senior staff are already in discussion about this idea and hopefully in the coming days will come to a conclusion with it.

[Mzor203]

It seems almost 50/50 for me really. Arguments can be made against it, arguments can be made for it. However, one really obvious point that comes forward is moderator workload: a chat moderator position is one which reduces strain on the normal moderators. As a former mod I know that after a while everything really kind of starts to pile up so just sitting around in the chat making sure things are going well can easily be something that adds stress or simply doesn't get done.

The other thing is just that it's a position which someone like me might consider. At this point I'd never be comfortable even sending in an application for a full-on moderator job due to time constraints (which you all know about :P) but a more minor position is something that someone who wants to contribute in a smaller way could help with. Spreading the load around. Many hands make light work, all that good stuff.

EDIT: Somehow didn't manage to see Stephen's post, I'll shut up now. >_>

[Sage]

*shrug* I'm in chat for at least a number of hours every day. Reporting certain things is pointless because by the time a moderator can come around to deal with them, the issue or person in question is long gone. I don't see chat mods as being as... authoritative? on the forum as the regular staff, but having people around to serve quick chatroom law and order where needed would certainly be nice, and would hopefully make the chatroom a more pleasant place for most people.

[Kahn]

Me and Jeff are virtually always in chat. As is a few others. We just need to give the senior staff time to think about it.

[Atonement]

Personally, I see no problem against it. I mean, someone could take the appropriate action of taking a screen shot and sending it to a mod, or, most of us are connected to a mod some way off of VT, so someone could just jump on MSN and call in a mod. I don't think its unnecessary, but not completely essential.

[Aves]

I'm in for it. Since it's chat, and not VT itself, it seems pretty easy to handle bad moderators who would abuse there powers.

[CaptainObvious]

I guess I should *shuts mouth*. :P

But seriously, the question I would have is how this would be implemented. If chat mods are literally only able to moderate chat, their only effective powers will be kicking and banning, the latter being a pain to undo from what we're told and therefore to be used sparingly. They wouldn't be able to infract users for behavior in chat without reporting to another staff member unless they were given forum powers as well, and therefore the end result would seem to be a marginal improvement. Though I guess that's a question of mechanics.

[Kahn]

idk lol

Point of this post?

Anyway. Leave it to the Senior Staff to decide. They are already thinking about it. I am for it, others are not.

[BlackBetty]

If Ant is for it, im sure there will be a descent need for it.

[2D]

To be honest, I think Adam deserves it. I could care less. Just as long as someone can do something.

[Kahn]

Thanks Jeff, but whoever deserves it gets it. I'm not going to lie and say I don't want it, I'm just fine if I don't get it. But thank you

[Kahn]

Alright, is this resolved? Because there is still ongoing fights in chat. Just now this was posted.

Do NOT FUCKING TELL ME YOU HAVE NEVER WANT SOMETHING IN YOUR LIFE YOU COCKSUCKER!

FUCK YOU DREW

reverse u need to go kill urself.

i have no idea why u r on this site unless u have no fucking life, but u really do need to stop trying to tell people how to live their lives

These are examples of what happens when there is no mod. Like I said, I am always in there, and so are others. I just want to know if this has been resolved. This was all posted moments ago.

Sorry for double posting.

[Maverick]

You know until its resolved you can PM a staff member that is currently online to handle the situation.

[Scarface]

Go for It Adam you get the position I for one am not always in chat, but every time I'm there you are. When your there your always respectful so you have my vote.

[CaptainObvious]

Alright, is this resolved? Because there is still ongoing fights in chat. Just now this was posted.

Do NOT FUCKING TELL ME YOU HAVE NEVER WANT SOMETHING IN YOUR LIFE YOU COCKSUCKER!

FUCK YOU DREW

reverse u need to go kill urself.

i have no idea why u r on this site unless u have no fucking life, but u really do need to stop trying to tell people how to live their lives

These are examples of what happens when there is no mod. Like I said, I am always in there, and so are others. I just want to know if this has been resolved. This was all posted moments ago.

Sorry for double posting.

It's not like you can't report this stuff now. Seriously, chat is just like the forum: if something happens while there's no staff around, tell the staff. The problem of people going unpunished for doing things that are against the rules in chat is also partially on all of you. Chat mods going ahead or not, the people with powers in chat can't be there all of the time; it's the members' responsibility to let us know when illicit things happen and we're not there.

[Kahn]

It's not like you can't report this stuff now. Seriously, chat is just like the forum: if something happens while there's no staff around, tell the staff. The problem of people going unpunished for doing things that are against the rules in chat is also partially on all of you. Chat mods going ahead or not, the people with powers in chat can't be there all of the time; it's the members' responsibility to let us know when illicit things happen and we're not there.

But it won't happen right away. What I am trying to say with Chat moderator is that they will always be in there when people are in there. I am in there all of the time with a new window open. I always see what is going on.

When we report things it won't be tended to right away. If there is something happening in chat, it is happening right away and everyone can sit there and watch what happens, or they can choose sides.

And I did let Ant know what happened. He entered chat and after awhile resolved it.

[Giles]

I'm with Adam on this idea.
On the rare occasions I'm there, people always talk about things inappropriate.
It would be good for an almost permanent mod to be there, to deter more than anything.

[Kahn]

I'm with Adam on this idea.
On the rare occasions I'm there, people always talk about things inappropriate.
It would be good for an almost permanent mod to be there, to deter more than anything.

Or you could stay in there, and have another window open like I do.

[Giles]

Or you could stay in there, and have another window open like I do.

That is what I do. Just saying, having a mod there would deter people from even talking about bad things.

[Kahn]

That is what I do. Just saying, having a mod there would deter people from even talking about bad things.

Ah, took your message the wrong way. I thought you meant they had to stay in there and never come out.. Like some people do in P101 :P

[Antares]

Okay, lets be hypothetical.

If Adam were a chat moderator, how would that really change things?
Sure, someone is getting attacked but basically all Adam would be able to do is kick them from the chat (in which they would log back on again) and repeat the process. If he were to ban someone they would be IP banned and it would create a host of issues getting that particular user unbanned. Other than that that is it.

My point is, it would not do very much. The long term punishment, amending the usernote, infracting, etc. wouldn't be able to be done.

So I say hypothetically, Adam needs to report the people so they can be handled appropriately or Adam needs to become a full moderator.

[Perseus]

Okay, lets be hypothetical.

If Adam were a chat moderator, how would that really change things?
Sure, someone is getting attacked but basically all Adam would be able to do is kick them from the chat (in which they would log back on again) and repeat the process. If he were to ban someone they would be IP banned and it would create a host of issues getting that particular user unbanned. Other than that that is it.

My point is, it would not do very much. The long term punishment, amending the usernote, infracting, etc. wouldn't be able to be done.

So I say hypothetically, Adam needs to report the people so they can be handled appropriately or Adam needs to become a full moderator.

What if the ban, I don't know if it's possible to do this, was on a timer? Like, you get kicked, and you can't rejoin for ten to thirty minutes.

[CaptainObvious]

But it won't happen right away. What I am trying to say with Chat moderator is that they will always be in there when people are in there. I am in there all of the time with a new window open. I always see what is going on.

When we report things it won't be tended to right away. If there is something happening in chat, it is happening right away and everyone can sit there and watch what happens, or they can choose sides.

And I did let Ant know what happened. He entered chat and after awhile resolved it.

I know, I'm not criticizing or using that as part of some argument. My point is that whether we have chat mods or not we won't have total coverage and so it is ultimately up to the members to help us when we're not there.

Okay, lets be hypothetical.

If Adam were a chat moderator, how would that really change things?
Sure, someone is getting attacked but basically all Adam would be able to do is kick them from the chat (in which they would log back on again) and repeat the process. If he were to ban someone they would be IP banned and it would create a host of issues getting that particular user unbanned. Other than that that is it.

My point is, it would not do very much. The long term punishment, amending the usernote, infracting, etc. wouldn't be able to be done.

So I say hypothetically, Adam needs to report the people so they can be handled appropriately or Adam needs to become a full moderator.

This is true.

What if the ban, I don't know if it's possible to do this, was on a timer? Like, you get kicked, and you can't rejoin for ten to thirty minutes.

Doesn't work that way though, unless it's an option yet to be enabled. If so I would love to see it since we ourselves could definitely use that tool currently.

[Giles]

What if the ban, I don't know if it's possible to do this, was on a timer? Like, you get kicked, and you can't rejoin for ten to thirty minutes.

I think it's a fixed thing with the hoster (what is it called?) of the chat.

Maybe if Adam, hypothetically again, was to kick them 2/3/4 times - then if he needs to kick them again then he just bans them. That way people might take the hint to stop talking about that thing and would change the subject.

If it was something serious then it could be passed onto a full Moderator who could deal out infractions or Bans.

[Kahn]

I think it's a fixed thing with the hoster (what is it called?) of the chat.

Maybe if Adam, hypothetically again, was to kick them 2/3/4 times - then if he needs to kick them again then he just bans them. That way people might take the hint to stop talking about that thing and would change the subject.

If it was something serious then it could be passed onto a full Moderator who could deal out infractions or Bans.

I like this. If I were to actually have to ban someone after one or two kicks, I would message Ant, Steph, a G-Mod, or a regular mod about infracting or even banning concerning the circumstance.

[Antares]

You can't do that.
In this new chat there are two options only.
Kick user and IP ban user.

Thats it.

[Mzor203]

The other issue is also: No one can stay in the chat 24/7. It would be folly to assume one person could cover it, especially if the 10 or so moderators VT has now seemingly cannot handle it. (As a side note, I've never seen much bad i the chat at all, honestly. granted I'm not always in there but this is getting a bit blown out of proportion.

I don't know what Ant's skills are with PHP and MySQL but another option would simply be to add a "Report chatroom abuse" button to the page chat is embedded on (or a link under the chat options in the hotbar) which would act the same as the report button on posts would in that it'd add a post to the mods' reported things forum. This would -possibly- require a bit of work (though if I can study up vBulletin a bit I'd be happy to give an admin some code if I think it's doable :P) but it would be a long-term solution which wouldn't require extra "chat mods" and stuff because the response time on reported posts is pretty good, I think, and it's certainly more efficient than PMing all the mods on since any of them can see it and deal with it as well as those who may log on in a minute or two.

[Antares]

I like that report chat abuse...and then all it would do is just put up a prompt with a text box, then the user can describe the situation, then the admin can go back in the logs and take appropriate action and have them banned, frozen, infracted, etc

[Maverick]

With the current chat set up there's no way to add any report abuse button to it. The chat room is remotely hosted on another server of the chat provider with no source code or editing access. It only is designed to connect to the database for user login authentication

[Mzor203]

The chat is embedded into the page. I'm saying stick a button -on the actual page- which would do the report on VT's server and code. It doesn't need to be linked with the chat in any way. As far as I understand it a post in the report forum can be created by simply inserting a row into the database. The user would only have to describe the issue in a text field, the query would happen using a PHP script on VT's host, and the report would be sent off.

I was thinking a button which would open a small popup window with just a text field and a "send report" button, it's perfectly possible and doesn't require integration into the chat. It would just require some coding and fooling around.

You could easily put such a button in the hotbar under the chat section. Just label it "chat abuse" or something.

I'll do some looking around later and see if I can figure out how vB is structured and see if it's doable without a lot of hassle. If it is, if you decided you wanted to go such a way I could send you off the code.

But of course there could possibly be easier solutions. It's just a thought, I've done such with other forum software (not this exact case but you get the idea) and it seemed like it might be a plausible idea. :P

And an edit: Just looking around, vB's MySQL structure is very simple so I think this would be completely doable with not a ton of hassle.

Last edit I hope:

And this is what I'm talking about. Watch out, you're going to be blown away by my paint skills:



There'd be this extra button:



http://i43.tinypic.com/34odlir.jpg

And then it would open a popup window with this PHP page:



http://i39.tinypic.com/5vu1dy.jpg

This page would contain a single form, which would send off to a PHP page which would do all the checking username/password/other stuff, and the send in the data to the database, thus putting a nice thread into the reports forum. Yes, it's more complicated than I'm making it sound, but doable, and I'm certain I could do it if it was something that would work.

[Kaius]

Rex's idea sounds pretty good to me. But i also agree with the chat moderator idea with one difference. There's no way Adam is going to be in there 24/7, he can't literally be. What if you chose say 4 members to be chat moderators, each one from a different time zone. This way you could cover a lot more of the time, providing these members are active etc.

[Kahn]

Rex's idea sounds pretty good to me. But i also agree with the chat moderator idea with one difference. There's no way Adam is going to be in there 24/7, he can't literally be. What if you chose say 4 members to be chat moderators, each one from a different time zone. This way you could cover a lot more of the time, providing these members are active etc.

4 would be a little much. I would think 2 or 3 would do it.

[Mzor203]

4 would be a little much. I would think 2 or 3 would do it.

That would be expecting each member to be on for an average of 8 HOURS each day which is just downright ridiculous. That is really not a healthy amount of time to be sitting and staring at your computer each day.

Try about 10 to 12 chat moderators. That would make it so each person has a load that's completely manageable and healthy. You have to factor in that we're all mostly in school. A normal person comes back from school around 3 PM in the afternoon. 8 hours moderating would mean all they do in their day is go to school, come back, moderate, and go to sleep. Not a healthy lifestyle, and even with 5 or 6 that's waaay too many hours to expect of one person for something like this.

[Kahn]

Other moderators are in chat. Just not ALWAYS. That is why I brought this whole thing up. So we can 2,3,4 people there to manage it when there is no mod in there. Because when there are people with power to ban/kick people it is less likely that there will be abusive or inappropriate behavior going on in chat.

[DanCheese]

Can i butt in and ask something?

Is there anyway to detect keywords that are said in the chats???

Yea, I know im a noob thats only just joined but yea, if it can detect them, they could get kicked straight away, automagically...

[AllThatIsLeft]

what do you mean keywords?
First of all, you need to consider that everyone deserves a chance at speaking. Either that being right away or a little later when they've understood that some things are better be said or talked about either in the forums or in private.

Kicking and banning just because they said a word, is plain unfair.

[DanCheese]

On other chatrooms Ive been on, where some people are constantly spamming, the computer system, when it detects certain disgusting words, has silenced people for 60 seconds or so.
If they say something particularly offensive, they have been banned for a minute, meaning they have to refresh the page, and wait another minute untill it logs back in.

Like Ben said, if they constantly get kicked out of the room, they could be banned altogether... idk. I'm just trying to make a suggestion.

[AllThatIsLeft]

meh that wouldnt really work. Just think of all the sarcastic conversations we have in chat. We'd all be banned, -.-

[DanCheese]

ok, i get what ya mean. yea as i said. just a suggestion :)

[redcar]

Way back in the day when I was admin, in the chat room we used then we had the ability to check the chat log. Now it was limited so it would need to have been checked daily but I used to check it most days and do searches for certain words and phrases that might be part of an unsavory conversation and if found they were dealt with. I think fear that there is monitoring going on but not necessarily in the form of a moderator does work as well.

The problem with having a chat moderator is they are not going to be on 24/7. How much does one actually spend on VT? At the very max a few hours a day. Even if you have a few it's not going to cover it and you end up with excess staff. My opinion on this would be to have existing staff go into the chat room when they log on to VT. There is generally someone on at most points in the day. This would mean new staff is not necessary and existing staff get more responsibility.

Anyway thats just my two cents.

Sure, we could just leave, but I think Jeff did not donate the money for Chat to be used like this.
I am sorry for picking this up but let us not go down that road. Other people have donated money and products for VT use over the years and I have never seen that kind of arguement used before and I really don't think we want to see it either.

[Kahn]

Way back in the day when I was admin, in the chat room we used then we had the ability to check the chat log. Now it was limited so it would need to have been checked daily but I used to check it most days and do searches for certain words and phrases that might be part of an unsavory conversation and if found they were dealt with. I think fear that there is monitoring going on but not necessarily in the form of a moderator does work as well.

The problem with having a chat moderator is they are not going to be on 24/7. How much does one actually spend on VT? At the very max a few hours a day. Even if you have a few it's not going to cover it and you end up with excess staff. My opinion on this would be to have existing staff go into the chat room when they log on to VT. There is generally someone on at most points in the day. This would mean new staff is not necessary and existing staff get more responsibility.

Anyway thats just my two cents.


I am sorry for picking this up but let us not go down that road. Other people have donated money and products for VT use over the years and I have never seen that kind of arguement used before and I really don't think we want to see it either.

Jeff said it himself, he doesn't want chat to be used this way.

I realize that we cannot be in chat 24/7, but that is why others suggested we have more than one moderator for chat. Someone also brought up we could get moderators from different timezones.

[redcar]

Jeff said it himself, he doesn't want chat to be used this way.

I realize that we cannot be in chat 24/7, but that is why others suggested we have more than one moderator for chat. Someone also brought up we could get moderators from different timezones.
I don't know Jeff. But I do know he is not an administrator. In my opinion they are the people who decide VT policy, operation etc. It is not for someone else to decide. For exmple the blog facility we use here was paid for by Ben (Kiros). We don't see him coming in here telling us what type of blogs can be posted. It is left for the administration to decide that.

I do see your point of view with the timezones. But an idea not so dissimilar years ago in relation to getting moderators from different timezones to moderte forums did not work. I really think current staff could be used for this purpose and would be better able for it.

[Kahn]

I don't know Jeff. But I do know he is not an administrator. In my opinion they are the people who decide VT policy, operation etc. It is not for someone else to decide. For exmple the blog facility we use here was paid for by Ben (Kiros). We don't see him coming in here telling us what type of blogs can be posted. It is left for the administration to decide that.

I do see your point of view with the timezones. But an idea not so dissimilar years ago in relation to getting moderators from different timezones to moderte forums did not work. I really think current staff could be used for this purpose and would be better able for it.

I understand what you're saying.

We should at least try, and if it fails, find a different solution. It is up to senior staff. We can (You more than me since you used to be an Administrator) on influence the decision they are going to make.

And Jeff is the user 2D. If he payed, he should at least get a say on what happens. If Ben saw that the blogs were being misused he wouldn't want something changed? I do not know him, you probably do. All I know is he was the first (I think, I am not sure) admin, and if the blogs were being misused he would probably do something to stop it.

[Mzor203]

And Jeff is the user 2D. If he payed, he should at least get a say on what happens.

That, in a short, blunt manner, is BS. That's like saying if we use VT's donate function, we get to become Admins because we are technically helping to pay for the continuation of VT.

If you donate anything to any organization, it is nothing more than a donation. You don't get any right to say what happens with it past then.

And BTW, Ben was not the first admin.

[Giles]

Rex is right, there are no benefits for donating.

So he shouldn't get any more say than the rest of us, he probably has more of an opinion because he did pay for it though.

[redcar]

And Jeff is the user 2D. If he payed, he should at least get a say on what happens. If Ben saw that the blogs were being misused he wouldn't want something changed? I do not know him, you probably do. All I know is he was the first (I think, I am not sure) admin, and if the blogs were being misused he would probably do something to stop it.

Absolutly not. It was a donation not an investment.
If Ben saw the blog system being greatly abused he would bring it up and let Ant and Steph handle it how they see fit. Same with myself. I bought something for VT at one point but I don't expect any sort of say in its operation. I am a regular member; hell if they want to ban me thats their perogative.

[Maverick]

And Jeff is the user 2D. If he payed, he should at least get a say on what happens.If that's the case then it will be promptly returned and that will pretty much solve all of our problems.

[Kahn]

I don't know what to say. I was wrong on Jeff being able to have a say, and it makes sense that it was only a donation. I didn't think of it as a donation before.

I'll let the decision form itself.

[2D]

I feel so used.

In all honestly I don't feel entitled to a more important opinion. It is annoying when someone can't take a hint and keeps asking P101 question and won't leave. It usually breaks up whatever conversation is going on. And yes, it's impossible for someone to be in there 24/7, but you're missing the fact that regular mods are already there, just not all the time. If you guys to choose to have chat mods pick ones from the regular chatters. Right now I can think of me, Adam, Aaron (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/member.php?u=16516), and Ronnie (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/member.php?u=19064). That's all I can think of right now.