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View Full Version : Are you looking for a martial art? Tips for not stumbling on crap.


Jean Poutine
March 7th, 2010, 03:50 AM
Let me start this by saying one thing :

You are all extremely gullible.

Martial arts teaching is one of the most unregulated professions in North America. Credentials are easily forged and people are easily made to believe things. We view martial arts teachers as inherently virtuous because of the view we have of martial arts training : inner peace, discipline, honor, etc. Lemme tell you this. Throw this view of martial arts out of the window. Right now. The prime aspect of a martial art should be hurting people into oblivion. None of that philosophical nonsense.

While choosing a martial art, there are only three things you should ask yourself :

1) is this person qualified?
2) are the techniques taught sound?
3) is the training taught with aliveness?

1) is this person qualified?

Some martial arts (like Judo, Karate, BJJ) have national or international bodies that keep track of credentials. For example it is easy to write to the USJA/USJF/Judo-Canada and ask "hey is joe schmoe really 3rd dan". Which is what you should do.

Other arts do NOT have organisations. This is true in most forms of kung-fu (some eclectic kung-fu derived arts have one). Generally you should ask your prospective teacher for his "lineage". Chinese martial artists are usually proud of their lineage and should give it to you without asking questions. If the answer is not "I trained under x who trained under y who trained under the founder..." then run away. The answer should be straight-forward, not vague, like "oh I trained with so many people". This is also done in BJJ, your teacher should be telling you for example "I'm a purple belt under Fabio Holanda". If you don't trust him then write to BTT-Canada and ask them yourself.

There are also wide-reaching bogus organisations that operate strickly for money. To spot these, generally you should look for overly grandiose titles like United States Martial Arts Hall of Fame. It is also unlikely that your local karate instructor could've won "Instructor of the Year" from the United States Martial Arts Hall of Fame. Such "Halls of Fame" are pay-to-play organisations : you pay for the mention, no questions asked.

2) are the techniques taught sound?

You aren't going to be catching a punch in mid-air. Forget about it. Techniques like :

-standing wristlocks (or even just standing joint locks)
-chambered punches

are unlikely to work in a real fight. If your art contain lots of those and much more, change, it's worthless. Ask yourself : "would a trained UFC/Pride/whatever fighter use this shit?"

You are always safe with a combat sport. No matter what anybody tells you, you need to fight to become good at fighting. Sparring and sportive combat generally weeds out the stupid shit from the art and makes it certain to be effective (more on that later).

Arts that can generally be characterised as "effective" :

-(kick)boxing
-judo
-BJJ
-kyokushin, ashihara karate
-daido juku
-wrestling
-sambo
-MMA
-muay thai
-sanshou/sanda (sportive application of kung fu)
-others...

Arts that can generally be considered as poop :

-taekwondo
-most karate
-most kung fu
-aikido (sans tomiki aikido)
-traditional japanese jujutsu
-krav maga
-ninjutsu
-MANY more others...

3) is the training taught with aliveness?

Generally, "aliveness" is described when training uses methods that are as close to a real fight as possible, while still making it safe. For example, MMA is very alive. Doing kata in front of a mirror is "dead" training, so is hitting pads. Point sparring is about as alive as a cancer patient five minutes away from dying. Non-contact sparring is not alive despite what anybody will tell you. Drills are obviously useful but are still dead training.

While training, you should spar often, with a good amount of contact, and as little rules as possible, while still being safe from grave injury. Technical drilling should and must occur, but there must also be sparring. This is where you pressure-test your shit against someone who is looking to wreck it.

Never buy into "our art is too dangerous for sportive combat". They'll tell you it's why you don't see Wing Chun fighters in the UFC. It's a bullshit excuse that bullshitters use to get out of trouble. If your art relies on eye gouges and strikes to the throat you can't practice, it's rubbish. You can't learn to swim on dry land. It's hard enough to punch someone in the face - how the fuck do you expect to gouge their eyes out?

The truth is that the "delivery system" of these arts is useless. If it was good then you'd see Wing Chun UFC fighters doing well, even without eye gouges. You are not being trained to "deliver" your moves by hurting a compliant partner who's letting you hurt you. There must be resistance.

No, kata is not useful to learn how to fight. It is useful to learn how to dance. The proverbial image neophytes have of martial arts is hundreds of Shaolin monks lined up and doing taolu in the wind. This doesn't make you a badass. It makes you a dancing fairy.

Punching bags is good for refining technique and conditioning. Not for fighting. Women who do tae-bo aren't going to kick your ass.

One more thing.

www.bullshido.net

Learn it and love it.

Mattasaur94
March 7th, 2010, 04:07 AM
Arts that can generally be considered as poop :

-taekwondo

Uhm... Thanks... I guess...
I'm Australian, I do Taekwondo (TKD) and have been for the last few years, its one of the only ways I can really cope with anxiety issues without having to use drugs...
I love the sport, not so much the sparring, I still do it.
I don't consider it as "poop"...

:)
I'm not sure, America might be different, but I love TKD.

Magus
March 7th, 2010, 04:36 AM
I think this is a reply to my other post. Doesn't matter.

I have to agree on something, some or to say most Martial Arts are just show and not really in for fighting.

People, who are not actually experienced in fighting in real life stances.

I am pretty sure a black Belt'er Karate trained person Can be easily beaten by untrained ruthless thugs. Why? Because they simply do not have the ability to counter act, even though they are trained on how to fend themselves.

It is true, it depends on people who are actually trained by real professional and experienced people.

And I cannot believe how you say Kav Maga is a poop, it is one of the best MMA. Usually trained by military, if it is not good in first place it wouldn't be on the rooster.

The rest as you have said. They are just some moves and not actually active


By meaning Alive, I am pretty sure you mean a full-contact and Normal contact training.
It goes in most of the training.

Also, I am not sure how the training in America is. But I know the myth on how you can become a real fighter by just training in their Dojo. It is basically the money they want.

It is not the case where I live. The most sportive games here are Judo, kyokushin, BJJ and Muay Thai.

The rest are Karate and TaeKonDo.

Also, as all sport goes. They also effective in there own way.

You get to be active and have better physics by actually doing something rather than nothing.

Also, Why Do you think of Shaolin? What is that in any way? I my self don't know lol.

Lazy Procrastinator
March 8th, 2010, 08:57 AM
Lol thanks Claude, but I think your definition of poop is flawed due to the fact that there are some really good professionals at these sports, true there are frauds and dumbasses out there, but most martial arts professionals I've seen in Australia Perth are actually really good at their particular martial art. My old karate teacher was actually taught by an authentic Japanese source, and had proper credentials and proof.

But thank you for the time you put into your post, greatly appreciated. Judo sounds the best out of what I've read on VT and the internet :) it has a lot of "active" use in most clubs with sparring every lesson for half the lesson (could be fun :P), but i'm not sure if I should start at the age of 16 hahaha, would look kind of sad...

Magus
March 8th, 2010, 09:19 AM
the best out of what I've read on VT and the internet :) it has a lot of "active" use in most clubs with sparring every lesson for half the lesson (could be fun :P), but i'm not sure if I should start at the age of 16 hahaha, would look kind of sad...

No worries. Even if you are as old as in your 50's You can start out.

To some Judo is nothing, but for other Judo is not a martial art you learn its moves and win competitions and what not. No, it is a life style in its own way.
It saves lives and not just earn Medals.

Most MMA mix Judo with it along with other Fighting Technique.

I think I am the one who suggested Judo in the other thread <_<

As Judo is not a straight forwardly offensive MA, but defense intensive Martial Art.

Judo is meant for small framed bodies, but if a Big bodied learn its secrets, than a deadly assailant he will be in defensive terms.

I tend to Mix Judo with Kick Boxing which I will be attending this summer. As no time I am free with the exception of the said Period.

You have seen how Paul Phoenix fights in Tekkens series, right? That's Judo mixed with Karate. (I had to put an example, no?)