Sex Before Marriage?

[Stolen Memories]

What are your guy's views on sex before marriage?

Is it wrong?
Fortification?
Is it fine?


Whats your definition of 'sex'?

[The Batman]

Girls Puberty :arrow: ROTW
Seems better here.

[SmileyGirl]

i say that sex before marriage is fine amd is ur personal choice.

[Severus Snape]

Last time I checked you don't need to be married to have sex.

[Jenna.]

Well I'm Christian but I think it's okay if you've been with the person for a while, or you're planning on being with them for a while. (longer than like.. 5 months.) I've been with my boyfriend for a year and a half and we have sex and we're planning on staying together so I don't see anything wrong with what we're doing. I don't agree with running around sleeping with everyone, or having sex a month into your new relationship, but it's your choice so when it all comes down to it, no its not wrong.

[Salvi]

Sex before marriage isn't wrong because it's a personal choice

[Atonement]

I think it is okay in committed relationships assuming you are protected and on birth control. If their smart, I see no problem.

[Giles]

I see no problem with it. If both people are happy together.

[CourageWolf]

Sex before marriage is a go. Just because it's wrong in the bible, doesn't mean it's wrong.

[woody92]

I think that there is nothing wrong with it. Seen as your expressing your affection for the other person (normaly).

[Stolen Memories]

Hmm, see my boyfriend is heavy christian and I TOTALLY respect that, I am in NO hurry, but I agree with most of you.

Sex is a way to express your love when it goes beyond words. I dont think you need to wait for marriage because it is just showing how much you love someone and you can have many relationships where you love them incredibly.

But then, the bible says 'NO SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE!' So my two questions now are:

What is 'sex'?
And WHY is it not allowed?

[Sage]

Marriage sucks. So, go for it.

[CuriousDestruction]

marriage means different things to different people. some people will say no pre-marital sex. some people will say have sex with everyone in sight. it's a matter of perspective and personal experience. personally, i think its actually necessary for people to have sex before marriage. i say that only because it's good to know a person's sexual preferences before you declare eternal love for that person.

[nachtspiegel]

This is my laughing point for a lot of beliefs. People pick and take out of the Bible what they like and are cool living with. The figure is something like 99% of American Christians have sex before marriage. It's their business, but it just makes me laugh.
Anyway, I think it's fine. I'm glad that the attitude that 'illegitimate' children are worth less than 'legitimate' children that was ever so popular a hundred years ago is not nearly as prevalent. My grandmother gave her oldest daughter up for adoption at 19 because her family would abuse her daughter (slap her, not feed her, neglect her, etc) while she was working. She had no one else to help her with her child. The money she made working was barely enough to feed her daughter, much less have her own home.
My grandmother was raped by her boyfriend at 18 in 1944. She wasn't having consensual premarital sex. She was raised to go against that, and when it was left to her will, she did.

My definition of sex takes is a little complicated. It really ties into my personal definition of what constitutes loss of virginity. My personal definition is consensually doing anything that essentially gives you sexual experience - impedes sexual "purity," if you will - I don't like labeling it that way, though. For the most part, that covers all three forms of "sex" - anal, oral, vaginal. I don't think that giving a hand job or fingering counts, because essentially, it's masturbation... just of someone else.

[2D]

Sex is good, marriage is ridiculous. So fuck away.

[Watchfulness]

Masturbation and loss of virginity - I view as great immoralities.

[iceyfresh]

Well in my opinion it's fine before marage I think it strengthens are relationships

[Stolen Memories]

Interesting your guy's view points on this.

[Nihilus]

If you are in a serious relationship with the person I don't see whats wrong with it.

[woody92]

Interesting your guy's view points on this.

In what way??
I am just curious as to how and why.

[Severus Snape]

Masturbation and loss of virginity - I view as great immoralities.

Why? The invisible sky man told you in a book originally written in a language you are illiterate in that is it bad?

^Ladies and Gentlemen, the problem with Christianity.

[Mental]

The only "requirement" I personally believe in for sex, is that the two are 16+ and are either in a stable relationship, or at least two very good friends that trust eachother and are comfortable with eachother. That's my personal opinion, but really in comes down to personal morality.

Some people believe in waiting for marriage, and that's absolutely fine. In a way, it's a good thing, because to be married, it shows a great deal of commitment between the two people and obviously they're in a stable relationship. But not everyone wants to get married, and it'd be wrong for them not to be "allowed" to have sex because of this - at the end of the day, it's their own bodies.

[Perseus]

Why? The invisible sky man told you in a book originally written in a language you are illiterate in that is it bad?

^Ladies and Gentlemen, the problem with Christianity.

I love the fact that you jumped to conclusions.
This is why I hate people like you. Y'all are a bunch of people who have a stick up their ass. I'm getting tired of you people hatin' on Christianity because of what they believe, such as not having sex before marriage.

[Aves]

Do what you damn well please. Personally, as a Catholic, I'm not gonna go have sex with every chick. But in a very committed relationship, personally I could see me having sex. But time will tell.

[2D]

Why? The invisible sky man told you in a book originally written in a language you are illiterate in that is it bad?

^Ladies and Gentlemen, the problem with Christianity.

Wow dude. You are such an arrogant little piece of shit. People believe different things. Get the fuck over it. Don't jump to conclusions and think you're better than them. You don't even know if he's a Christian. Your head is just too far up your ass to see past your own ego. I'm sorry but I fail to see any logic in your post, this is a debate forum not a "I'm better than you because I believe in nothing" forum. How is being an atheist any better? You believe nothing. Nothing was there, nothing happened, and something became. That's just as confusing as Christianity if not more confusing.

[Sugaree]

Why? The invisible sky man told you in a book originally written in a language you are illiterate in that is it bad?

^Ladies and Gentlemen, the problem with Christianity.

There are many problems with Christianity, but I love how everyone immediately goes to sex before marriage/masturbation is wrong. As a Christian (or Catholic, who the hell knows anymore), I find no problems with it just as long as the person is responsible in making the choice to have sex. They can fuck like rabbits as far as I'm concerned.

I also love how atheists/agnostics point out pure ignorance in religion (namely Christianity) and are themselves ignorant. There should be a shirt that says, "I <3 Hypocrisy," I think it comes in your size too man.

[nick]

What are your guy's views on sex before marriage?

Is it wrong?
Fortification?
Is it fine?

Whats your definition of 'sex'?
Is it wrong?

Not if both partners are old enough to understand what they are doing, are both willing partners and there is no coercion involved

Fortification?

Yes, by definition. Fornication is just a word for sexual intercourse between unmarried people. You dont have to view the word as implying any disapproval or sin.

Is it fine?

Urgh that's already answered in the "Is it wrong" reply.

Whats your definition of 'sex'?

I differentiate between sexual activity, which is everything from masturbation up, and "sex". If someone said "I had sex last night" I would take that to mean sexual intercourse, either vaginal or anal. I dont accept that you can lose your virginity to a blow job.

[Doctor Fate]

Everyone has their own beliefs and they can do whatever they choose.

To each their own.

[Marcie]

I think it's wrong..
I think that when you have sex you're giving a part of your self to that person you can't going to get back.. I think you should be able to give all of your self to the person you marry.

[lengthy_brochure]

I have deleted the contents of this post

[Watchfulness]

Why? The invisible sky man told you in a book originally written in a language you are illiterate in that is it bad?

^Ladies and Gentlemen, the problem with Christianity.

No, it's my personal opinion.
I find masturbation to be totally unnecessary, it is an urge, a fruitless one.
What does one expect to gain in commiting such actions? Nothing.

I find those who have frequent sexual activities prior to marriage to be untrustworthy, they cannot restrain their actions.

I am an atheist, but I take interest in religion as well.

[Jean Poutine]

Given that marriage is a meaningless beast these days, I can't say that I'm of the "chaste before marriage" kind of person. I'm not terribly religious, but even if I were, I'd see no need to justify my relationship before (a) God. It is quite patronising.

I am, however, of the "chaste before meeting someone really meaningful" clan. So meaningful that I don't think I'll engage in that act yet for a long time. People that fuck around with anybody because they can disgust me.

For God's sake people, keep it in your pants.

[CourageWolf]

People that fuck around with anybody because they can disgust me.

For God's sake people, keep it in your pants.

Sir, I see nothing wrong with casual sex. Seems like you're putting sex on a pedestal.

[ltimm]

Bible=Almost all bullshit

The only thing good in the Bible is 6/10 commandments.

Nobody really gives a shit if you're having sex, just be safe about it.

[Evermore]

Do what you damn well please. Personally, as a Catholic, I'm not gonna go have sex with every chick. But in a very committed relationship, personally I could see me having sex. But time will tell.

if you're in a very commited relationship why not get married?

[Rutherford The Brave]

Be safe, and get your dick wet. Just have some damn sex. If you believe that god gave you a penis then do what he wanted you to do with it. Have some sex, and if he gave your a vagina trick it by using a super thin piece of latex, is it really that difficult?

[screamtobeheard]

I don't really see any problem with it in a committed relationship. It's a choice, as has been said. It's really up to the person.
Definition of sex...I mean, I'd say anything except really a hand job.

[sir ninja]

im roman catholic so im against sex before marriage and in the bible its technically saying no penetration if you know what i mean so sleeping with them naked and kissing and all that is fine i suppose

[2D]

if you're in a very commited relationship why not get married?

Because 1) He legally can't. 2) Marriage is a piece of paper. Oh, and it help on your taxes.

[Katrina]

When both the girl and the guy are comfortable with it, there is no need to hesitate.




What's your definition of 'sex'?
For me sex means an intimate physical bonding with your partner to fulfill your lust.

[Perseus]

Bible=Almost all bullshit

The only thing good in the Bible is 6/10 commandments.

Nobody really gives a shit if you're having sex, just be safe about it.

You = almost bullshit.

See what I did there?

[Severus Snape]

I love the fact that you jumped to conclusions.
This is why I hate people like you. Y'all are a bunch of people who have a stick up their ass. I'm getting tired of you people hatin' on Christianity because of what they believe, such as not having sex before marriage.o rly? I have a stick up my ass?

Once again, I scoff at you from my high horse of superior logic.

Wow dude. You are such an arrogant little piece of shit.
Fallacy.

People believe different things.
Duh

Get the fuck over it.
You obviously haven't.

Don't jump to conclusions and think you're better than them.
My beliefs are better, that's why I have them.

You don't even know if he's a Christian.As a matter of fact, I know he is not. I was making a point which flew right over your head.

Your head is just too far up your ass to see past your own ego.
Fallacy.

I'm sorry but I fail to see any logic in your post,
Seems like a you problem to me.

this is a debate forum
Then why are you here? You're not very good at it I'm afraid.

not a "I'm better than you because I believe in nothing" forum.
ZOMG Jumping to conclusions!!!

How is being an atheist any better?
I don't believe in fairy tales.

You believe nothing. Nothing was there, nothing happened, and something became. That's just as confusing as Christianity if not more confusing.

Ahhahahaha. If you are Christian you must have a very simple minded understanding of your faith. Quantify this: three persons in one god. Want another paradox? Transubstantiation. Not enough yet? A virgin birth.

In short, absolutely, I would rather believe in nothing than something ridiculous. And actually, no, I do not believe in nothing. That's ridiculous for you to assume. You only prove your own inability to speak maturely when you act like this. You will be lucky if I even respond to your next post.

There are many problems with Christianity, but I love how everyone immediately goes to sex before marriage/masturbation is wrong. As a Christian (or Catholic, who the hell knows anymore), I find no problems with it just as long as the person is responsible in making the choice to have sex. They can fuck like rabbits as far as I'm concerned.Well, that's your opinion and I respect it. :)

I also love how atheists/agnostics point out pure ignorance in religion (namely Christianity) and are themselves ignorant. There should be a shirt that says, "I <3 Hypocrisy," I think it comes in your size too man.
I can guarantee you that I know much more about Christianity than most anyone else here. It is why I reject it outright. The problem is that as you can see with the kid I creamed earlier in this post, people post from emotion, and not logic.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Throwing randoms threats, and rude comments is no way to debate at all. We're not getting any where, respect the beliefs and stick to the damn thread. This isn't a debate all I hear is a bunch of kiddies rambeling about things that are irrelavent.

[Sugaree]

I can guarantee you that I know much more about Christianity than most anyone else here. It is why I reject it outright. The problem is that as you can see with the kid I creamed earlier in this post, people post from emotion, and not logic.

So I suppose that you know more about Christianity then say a priest who studied for years in theology? You seem to have an incredibly high opinion of yourself in saying you know more about Christianity than anybody whether they be on here or elsewhere. It's true that some people post from emotion, but there are plenty who can post with true logic. They get mixed up because one can mix both elements and call it logic.

[2D]

Fallacy.

My beliefs are better, that's why I have them.

lolwut?

Duh

Oh wow, take one half of a sentence out of context. Mature.

You obviously haven't.

I have, idc what anyone believes. I just don't respect anyone that thinks because they believe something they are inherently better than everybody that holds a different opinion.

As a matter of fact, I know he is not. I was making a point which flew right over your head.

Which is that you are better than everyone else who does not share your belief.

Seems like a you problem to me.

Maybe it would help to use logic then?

Then why are you here? You're not very good at it I'm afraid.

:rolleyes:

ZOMG Jumping to conclusions!!!

OMFG look!!! It's inferred in your entire post!

I don't believe in fairy tales.

Congrats, nor do I.



Now, what do you actually believe? I do believe that might help.

And yes, my before post was short sided and based off emotion but the point still stands: you aren't better because your beliefs.

[Jean Poutine]

Guys.

You're getting hardcore trolled.

By the way, the correct term is ad hominem.

Sir, I see nothing wrong with casual sex. Seems like you're putting sex on a pedestal.

Maybe because you hold niggardly morals.

See? I'm pretty good at ad hominem arguments.

[Severus Snape]

I have, idc what anyone believes. I just don't respect anyone that thinks because they believe something they are inherently better than everybody that holds a different opinion.Then you must hate a lot of people.

Which is that you are better than everyone else who does not share your belief.My beliefs are superior, that's why I believe them. If I didn't then obviously I wouldn't have them, would I? Would you believe something knowing it was wrong?

Maybe it would help to use logic then?
Well listen up hun, because I'm a pretty logical person.

OMFG look!!! It's inferred in your entire post!Well you come to some strange conclusions to fit your own argument then. Misinterpreting data won't win you anything in the long run, but avoiding major points will result in intellectual castration by my hand.

Now, what do you actually believe? I do believe that might help.The manifesto is not yet complete, but if your definition of atheism is "belief in nothing" you either have a very poor grasp of the English language or choose to ignore the reality of what is.

And yes, my before post was short sided and based off emotion but the point still stands: you aren't better because your beliefs.
So you agree your argument was pathetic and hardly worth my response yet you continue to make the same philosophically and psychologically unsupported claims.

[littlerascal]

My beliefs are superior, that's why I believe them. If I didn't then obviously I wouldn't have them, would I? Would you believe something knowing it was wrong?




This single statement loses the whole debate for you. How can your beliefs be superior if you don't even know what the hell they are? The fact is, you can't argue against anyone with this logic, simply because you're not going to change a person's beliefs. If you expect to change someone's beliefs you are just as bad as the Christian you are debating against. When it comes to beliefs, nobody is "wrong." It's a belief...no belief can be proven factual. It becomes completely pointless to even debate it. I just had to point out that your argument failed.

[Sugaree]

My beliefs are superior, that's why I believe them. If I didn't then obviously I wouldn't have them, would I? Would you believe something knowing it was wrong?

Ladies and gentlemen, the problem with atheism! I know I've made a post already in this topic regarding you, but this is just way too good to pass up. Look at you all high and mighty. "I don't believe in a god, thus I am better and my belief system is better." No it's not, you've lost the debate completely and all of your other "points" are minute and invalid.

[Severus Snape]

This single statement loses the whole debate for you. How can your beliefs be superior if you don't even know what the hell they are? The fact is, you can't argue against anyone with this logic, simply because you're not going to change a person's beliefs. If you expect to change someone's beliefs you are just as bad as the Christian you are debating against. When it comes to beliefs, nobody is "wrong." It's a belief...no belief can be proven factual. It becomes completely pointless to even debate it. I just had to point out that your argument failed.
There's no such thing as evangelical atheism, try again. I know very well my beliefs, but I am not going to waste an hour of my time committing them to writing when the people I am addressing don't give two shakes. It isn't my goal to try and force my beliefs on others. They can come to the conclusion that god is a delusion by themselves, it just takes a little bit of reason, the ability to challenge authority, and the education to see things through a broader scope. You're wrong, also, and honestly you are talking yourself in a massive circle here. If I don't believe in god and somebody else does, we can't both be right. Therefore one belief is ultimately better than the other because one is right and one is wrong. It is very simple.

By your logic I can believe that giant talking Walnut trees fluent in Portuguese are going to abduct me from my room and take me to their secret base in the Seychelles Islands and I can't be wrong.

And again, you're wrong. Beliefs most definitely can be proven wrong- see below. It has been a joy to educate you.

Ladies and gentlemen, the problem with atheism! I know I've made a post already in this topic regarding you, but this is just way too good to pass up. Look at you all high and mighty. "I don't believe in a god, thus I am better and my belief system is better." No it's not, you've lost the debate completely and all of your other "points" are minute and invalid.
Oh really? So me not believing in something which can't be proven makes me the loser? What makes your beliefs better? The fact they are more popular? You know what else was a popularly held belief at one point? Geocentricity and the concept of the world as flat. and Don't you see you are doing the exact same thing I am doing or else you wouldn't be making the argument in the first place? By telling me that my beliefs are inferior you are suggesting yours are better. You defeat yourself. I declare myself the winner in this little struggle. It has truly been a pleasure.

[littlerascal]

There's no such thing as evangelical atheism, try again. I know very well my beliefs, but I am not going to waste an hour of my time committing them to writing when the people I am addressing don't give two shakes. It isn't my goal to try and force my beliefs on others. They can come to the conclusion that god is a delusion by themselves, it just takes a little bit of reason, the ability to challenge authority, and the education to see things through a broader scope. You're wrong, also, and honestly you are talking yourself in a massive circle here. If I don't believe in god and somebody else does, we can't both be right. Therefore one belief is ultimately better than the other because one is right and one is wrong. It is very simple.

By your logic I can believe that giant talking Walnut trees fluent in Portuguese are going to abduct me from my room and take me to their secret base in the Seychelles Islands and I can't be wrong.

And again, you're wrong. Beliefs most definitely can be proven wrong- see below. It has been a joy to educate you.



It's been a joy to be educated by you, oh wise ass...I mean wise one.

Yes, by my logic, I can believe that there is a flying spaghetti monster as well. Am I wrong...very likely. I can believe in God, however, there is no proof of his existence. Am I wrong....the same likelihood as being wrong about the FSM.

You are right that beliefs can be proven wrong, however, only partially. You believe you can prove that God doesn't exist. Very well...how are you going to prove this to anyone else? You're not going to. A Christian believer isn't going to be proven wrong by you. In fact, they will believe that they can prove you wrong. Thus, you end up with both parties believing they have proven the other wrong. Does anyone win this argument? Nope, not from a neutral point of view (even though it'd be impossible to find a completely neutral, unbiased point of view). You'll still believe you are right and your beliefs are superior to anyone else. The Christian will still believe he is right and his beliefs are superior to anyone else. Nobody wins the debate.

And what in the hell are you on about an evangelical atheism? I don't have a fucking clue where the hell you got that from.

[Jean Poutine]

Look, I'm not religious at all. I consider myself a "true" agnostic because I refuse to even consider the question.. But I still wanna jump in the troll fest.

You believe nothing.

Atheism is the belief that there is no superior being ("being" is loose here). It's not the belief in "nothing". If he believed nothing he would have no opinion on the matter.

You could at least use a dictionary, man.

I just don't respect anyone that thinks because they believe something they are inherently better than everybody that holds a different opinion.

So you think that gullible people should follow cult leaders because all beliefs are equal? I would remind you of, say, Jim Jones, who led a bunch of his followers to isolation and ultimately suicide.

Your position is actually indefensible. How do you know than Jim Jones wasn't in fact a prophet sent by God? Yet I'm sure you'd agree that the building of Jonestown and the expatriation of believers to Guyana, as well as the mass suicide, are all heinous actions perpetrated by a psychopath?

you continue to make the same philosophically and psychologically unsupported claims.

Well, if you wanna go there, I'm surprised no one here tried to pull out Pascal's Gambit to clown you.

Yeah, there are problems with the logic, and it does directly contradict certain claims made by the Bible, but hey, it's BLAISE PASCAL! Geniuses are never wrong.

There's no such thing as evangelical atheism, try again.

No, there is. An evangelical atheist is an atheist who proselytizes to theists. Which I disagree is what you're doing, but one more exaggeration will barely budge the count.

Therefore one belief is ultimately better than the other because one is right and one is wrong.

Not really. Insofar as both sides cannot prove their point of view, and are at a virtual standstill, saying that only the most logically plausible solution is the best is erroneous. They are both illogical depending on the person you ask. They may be the best for you. For 6,999,999,999 other people they aren't. Feel free to apply Occam's Razor, however, not everything is always as it seems.

Most people consider the better belief is the one that is the most logically plausible, as I said. I won't go over Pascal's Gambit because honestly that's a flawed example. I'm just going to say that I think both options (theism and atheism) are flawed to me, but thankfully they are not the only ones.

The "better" belief in my eyes is one that is both logically plausible to an acceptable degree and ultimately the most rewarding. Due to certain logical errors, I disagree with Pascal's conclusion that it is to believe in God. I think the best belief is to live a righteous life and forget about the whole "faith vs. science" debate. Neither are needed to guide your spiritual life.

My own beliefs allow me to consider both spiritual forces and science, the musings of pagan philosophers, the divine, and the wretched. Ultimately both major beliefs put one's eggs in the same basket. I never believed in extremes, so I just set myself in the middle and carefully observe.

If God's grace and mercy is as limitless as Christianity pretends, then I should be granted entry to Purgatory or Heaven upon the basis of a solid, morally upright life. If the view that one needs to accept Jesus Christ as one's savior to benefit from it is true, and I actually get sent to Hell because of my beliefs, this makes the Christian God one I want nothing to do with, and thus I lose nothing with my punishment, Furthermore, I have lost nothing in my life by conforming myself to a single set of beliefs. There is also the possibility that God would rather reward the intellectually enlightened that challenged His existence and used God's gift of reason, logic and consciousness, rather than the blind sheep who chose to obediently follow mortal leaders. After all, God's ways are impenetrable, huh...

It is that simple.

[Sugaree]

Oh really? So me not believing in something which can't be proven makes me the loser? What makes your beliefs better? The fact they are more popular? You know what else was a popularly held belief at one point? Geocentricity and the concept of the world as flat. and Don't you see you are doing the exact same thing I am doing or else you wouldn't be making the argument in the first place? By telling me that my beliefs are inferior you are suggesting yours are better. You defeat yourself. I declare myself the winner in this little struggle. It has truly been a pleasure.

Did I ever say MY beliefs were better than YOURS simply because I believe there is a possible Supreme Being? No. You say that since you don't believe in anything, that automatically makes you better. What I'm insinuating is that YOU believe you are higher than those who believe in a Supreme Being. I never said your beliefs were inferior, nor did I say mine were better. I was saying that this is the exact attitude I've seen from atheists on this site in the past. They all believed they were better than Christians/Catholics because they didn't believe in a god. Really, you're just digging your own grave. I'm not saying there IS a god, maybe there is maybe there isn't. But certainly giving yourself the image as being the supreme person is this debate only furthers a losing attitude.

[Severus Snape]

I'm not better, my beliefs are better. I'm not the supreme person, never once claimed to be, but I will say that I do consider myself sane and evangelical Christians a bit insane purely by their actions.

[littlerascal]

I'm not better, my beliefs are better. I'm not the supreme person, never once claimed to be, but I will say that I do consider myself sane and evangelical Christians a bit insane purely by their actions.

And evangelical Christians consider themselves sane and people with beliefs like yours a bit insane purely by your actions. Their beliefs are also better in their opinion. Your beliefs are only better in your own opinion, especially since you haven't proven, or for that matter even stated, what your beliefs are. You see? Nobody gets anywhere by arguing about religion. Neither side will ever be able to prove themselves to the other. I couldn't agree with Uchimata any more.

[Watchfulness]

Sex = Loss of Purity.
Sex before marriage symbolizes reckless sexual thoughts and urges.
I respect those who restrain from disturbing sexual actions.

[Sugaree]

I'm not better, my beliefs are better. I'm not the supreme person, never once claimed to be, but I will say that I do consider myself sane and evangelical Christians a bit insane purely by their actions.

So what you're saying is that you technically are better because your beliefs are somehow better? Ok, I'll just leave you to your thoughts then.


Sex before marriage symbolizes reckless sexual thoughts and urges.

Like you haven't had any sexual thoughts or urges in your life? Look, we all get them, but what matters is our decision to act on them or to leave them be.

[Severus Snape]

And evangelical Christians consider themselves sane and people with beliefs like yours a bit insane purely by your actions. Their beliefs are also better in their opinion. Your beliefs are only better in your own opinion, especially since you haven't proven, or for that matter even stated, what your beliefs are. You see? Nobody gets anywhere by arguing about religion. Neither side will ever be able to prove themselves to the other. I couldn't agree with Uchimata any more.The Nazis considered themselves sane. Your point is moot. I don't need to prove that god doesn't exist, Christians need to prove he does. It isn't logical to believe in something that cannot be proven. It is not illogical to not believe in something that has not been proven. Do you understand?

So what you're saying is that you technically are better because your beliefs are somehow better? Ok, I'll just leave you to your thoughts then.No, you obviously didn't read my post, but if your normal habit is to grossly misinterpret data, I'll just leave it to you then.

[Sugaree]

No, you obviously didn't read my post, but if your normal habit is to grossly misinterpret data, I'll just leave it to you then.

No, if that were true, I'd make some outrageous statement and not back it up. I'm saying that you're being a completely self centered jackass by believing that you - along with your system of beliefs - are better than those of us who do have a belief in some great creator. I don't think you're really getting my point in saying this because you are either...

1. Simply ignoring the fact

or

2. Trying to go under the radar and be virtually unnoticed

I'll put you in a situation, so let us be hypothetical for minute: You're a Christian and you're having a debate with one of your friends who just so happens to be an atheist. So you're just going along on this debate and he says, "My beliefs are better because I believe in nothing." Technically, this means he believes that he is higher than you because he does not bother himself with believing in a higher being. What say you to this?

[Severus Snape]

Let me put this as bluntly as I can. I don't give a flying fuck what you believe. I don't care what you think about my beliefs. You are intentionally misinterpreting things and then trying to paint your own picture of my argument divorced from the reality of the situation. It truly is a pathetic way to get a point across.

I've already said before that atheists don't believe in nothing. I am going to have to give you an English lesson, aren't I?

[2D]

Let me put this as bluntly as I can. I don't give a flying fuck what you believe. I don't care what you think about my beliefs. You are intentionally misinterpreting things and then trying to paint your own picture of my argument divorced from the reality of the situation. It truly is a pathetic way to get a point across.

I've already said before that atheists don't believe in nothing. I am going to have to give you an English lesson, aren't I?

Then explain what you do believe in. Because you haven't done so despite being asked to.

[littlerascal]

The Nazis considered themselves sane. Your point is moot. I don't need to prove that god doesn't exist, Christians need to prove he does. It isn't logical to believe in something that cannot be proven. It is not illogical to not believe in something that has not been proven. Do you understand?


Saying the Nazis considered themselves sane is also a moot point. The KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, Blood, Crips, etc, etc, etc, also believe themselves to be sane. Just because you believe yourself to be sane doesn't make you sane.

This is where I end my argument with you, because I can no longer disagree with you. In fact I've never disagreed with you, only your logic and debate tactics. Your points have proven nothing to me, even if I agree with them.


Let me put this as bluntly as I can. I don't give a flying fuck what you believe. I don't care what you think about my beliefs. You are intentionally misinterpreting things and then trying to paint your own picture of my argument divorced from the reality of the situation. It truly is a pathetic way to get a point across.

I've already said before that atheists don't believe in nothing. I am going to have to give you an English lesson, aren't I?

^^This is a good post actually. The only thing I can't agree with you on is that you have yet to give what you believe....it still seems to me, regardless of you disagreeing with me, that you don't know what you believe yourself. If you did know what you believed, you'd be having a better debate.

[Sugaree]

Let me put this as bluntly as I can. I don't give a flying fuck what you believe. I don't care what you think about my beliefs. You are intentionally misinterpreting things and then trying to paint your own picture of my argument divorced from the reality of the situation. It truly is a pathetic way to get a point across.

I've already said before that atheists don't believe in nothing. I am going to have to give you an English lesson, aren't I?

Alright, I'm not going to argue with you on this if you're going sit there and rage over my opinion of your beliefs hurr. So what do you believe in anyway, other than that there is no supreme being? You have yet to elaborate on that point. Also, you might want to go back and check how you word your posts. Better yet, before you post you might want to reread it a few times. The only reason I'm going up against you is because you have imaged yourself, by the wording of your post, that you are somehow better than those who have a belief in a god.

[ltimm]

I KNOW I'm better than religious people! I have a higher mental capacity! I can understand things while they make up excuses!

[Sugaree]

I KNOW I'm better than religious people! I have a higher mental capacity! I can understand things while they make up excuses!

Nice sarcasm bro.

[ltimm]

I understand where you could see sarcasm, but, frankly, I wasn't being sarcastic...

[war-fougt-in-a-boy]

Is it wrong? well im a christan but lik if u do it brings up a lot of seriuos problems so i say wait thas wat im doin thas y they invented masterbating lol

[Rutherford The Brave]

Theres nothing wrong with believing in god or anything I guess its your life make your own damn calls. If you choose not to then so be it, but do not let people tell you, you cannot have premarital sex.

[Sugaree]

I understand where you could see sarcasm, but, frankly, I wasn't being sarcastic...

Still, you completely said it at the right time. For that, I give you over 9000 internets.

[Jean Poutine]

I KNOW I'm better than religious people! I have a higher mental capacity! I can understand things while they make up excuses!

One could argue that being able to have faith into something speaks of a higher "mental capacity" than needing everything and anything explained to your feeble logic.

In short, no one cares.

[Severus Snape]

Then explain what you do believe in. Because you haven't done so despite being asked to.

I'll give you the short form notes.

-there is no god/supreme being

-There is no afterlife besides molecular reincarnation

-Religion is a complex set of beliefs that has evolved through the centuries that at one point, due to lack of understanding of how the world worked, was permissible to believe

-Religion, Christianity in particular, is a contradictory faith made up of impossible to understand paradoxes and impossibilities

-Religion as a force in the world is wholly evil. It is comparable to racism, nationalism, and imperialism

-There is no soul

- There is no plan

- Religious belief is outdated and backwards thinking

- We must look to science for answers regarding the world, not some ancient book written by people who were about as aware of the world as we are of distant galaxies today.

Saying the Nazis considered themselves sane is also a moot point. The KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, Blood, Crips, etc, etc, etc, also believe themselves to be sane. Just because you believe yourself to be sane doesn't make you sane.
Thank you. You just proved my point. Just because religious people consider themselves sane does not mean they are. :)

This is where I end my argument with you, because I can no longer disagree with you. In fact I've never disagreed with you, only your logic and debate tactics. Your points have proven nothing to me, even if I agree with them. Believe what you want, I was the one being attacked here and I don't care about winning people over to my side of thinking.

^^This is a good post actually. The only thing I can't agree with you on is that you have yet to give what you believe....it still seems to me, regardless of you disagreeing with me, that you don't know what you believe yourself. If you did know what you believed, you'd be having a better debate.The debate is fine, and see above. See, the thing is, truly no thinking, mentally autonomous individual can actually disagree with what I am saying.

Alright, I'm not going to argue with you on this if you're going sit there and rage over my opinion of your beliefs hurr.
HURRRRR mememeohohoh.

Also, you might want to go back and check how you word your posts. Better yet, before you post you might want to reread it a few times.
Is the language too advanced for you?

The only reason I'm going up against you is because you have imaged yourself, by the wording of your post, that you are somehow better than those who have a belief in a god.Well then guess what, you're wrong yet again. The wording of my post is intentional and aggressive towards the idea of theism because I find it a retarded belief. That does not mean the people that believe it are retarded. You see, throughout this whole debate, I have not called anybody a name. I on the other hand, have been called arrogant, a fucking piece of shit, a "cocksucker" in a rep comment (not too far off the point, but still...), a stupid fuck, etc. I respect people enough, but not their beliefs, whereas an overwhelming majority of people in here are very disrespectful and rude. I dish it back as it is handed out because I have no tolerance for ignorance or disrespect. A certain Christian phrase comes to mind... xD

SO! I will say once again, I am not better because of my beliefs, but my beliefs are better than other peoples'. You can't argue with that because it is simple truth and is true for everybody or else all of you would have instantly forsaken your religion when I showed up.

One could argue that being able to have faith into something speaks of a higher "mental capacity" than needing everything and anything explained to your feeble logic.

In short, no one cares.

No, it isn't hard to blindly believe something, especially one that promises life everlasting in paradise after you die. Don't you see? Death is the ultimate fear, it always has been, since ancient times. In order to deal with this fear thoughts about an afterlife started circulating around and after some time we have our modern conception of heaven and hell (which is also ancient). We should all be smart enough now to realize that this simply cannot be true. Faith is nothing more than wishful thinking. Trust me, if the afterlife made sense or was remotely possible I would be seriously reconsidering the way I live my life.

[littlerascal]

Thank you. You just proved my point. Just because religious people consider themselves sane does not mean they are. :)

Believe what you want, I was the one being attacked here and I don't care about winning people over to my side of thinking.

The debate is fine, and see above. See, the thing is, truly no thinking, mentally autonomous individual can actually disagree with what I am saying.



No, I didn't prove your point, but you are constantly proving mine. Just because atheists consider themselves sane does not mean they are. :)

I fail to see how you were being attacked. If you were being attacked, I would have defended you, as I am atheist.

And there we go again...you saying that you are superior to people who believe in a religion. Apparently anyone who disagrees with you does not think nor have mental autonomy. Thus, not only are your beliefs superior, you are now saying you yourself are superior. You are doing the exact same thing you are pissed off at Christians for. You're not mentally autonomous...you yourself are following a belief system, which takes away your autonomy.

[Sugaree]

And there we go again...you saying that you are superior to people who believe in a religion. Apparently anyone who disagrees with you does not think nor have mental autonomy. Thus, not only are your beliefs superior, you are now saying you yourself are superior. You are doing the exact same thing you are pissed off at Christians for. You're not mentally autonomous...you yourself are following a belief system, which takes away your autonomy.

Well, I think rascal here has just taken my point and proven it further. And to clarify from my standpoint (which to Meteoric means little to nothing since I'm Christian), I wouldn't say all Christians take this attitude. A majority sure, but not all I don't believe. I think people, atheists especially, always look at the cons in religion and not the pros. Anyway, I'm leaving this debate before it turns into another flame war (like most Atheist v. Christianity threads). No, I'm not giving up, I'm simply not going to make myself of a shitstorm.

[Severus Snape]

I fail to see how you were being attacked. If you were being attacked, I would have defended you, as I am atheist.
I neither desire nor require your help.

And there we go again...you saying that you are superior to people who believe in a religion.
NEVER ONCE DID I FUCKING SAY THIS. As a matter of fact I said three separate times this is not what I think.

Murdoc flees the battlefield before sustaining yet another devastating blow. Bye.

[littlerascal]

The debate is fine, and see above. See, the thing is, truly no thinking, mentally autonomous individual can actually disagree with what I am saying.




This statement says differently. Anyone who disagrees with you does not think and not free thinking or capable of making rational decisions on their own. If this statement doesn't imply that you are better than anyone who disagrees with you, I'd think about restating it.

It's also contradictory. It's not very autonomous if they agree with what you are saying.

Agreeing with you would be the same as following a religion, which automatically removes autonomy.

To me, it appears you have just as bad, if not worse of a superiority complex than a lot of Christians have. You're so blind that you can't even see how similar you are to an extremist Christian. You're blinded by your own perceived superiority. It really is losing the debate for you.

[2D]

What were we even going on about? I forgot. I should stop debating since I actually do suck at it and just get mad. Look, your beliefs are your own, and I respect that. I don't respect arrogance so tone that down though. Well, who am I to judge. Bye guys. <3

[CourageWolf]

Lol I thought this was a debate on premarital sex?

[2D]

Lol I thought this was a debate on premarital sex?

Oh yeah! My stance: fuck away, kids.

[Sugaree]

Murdoc flees the battlefield before sustaining yet another devastating blow. Bye.

I flee? No, I made the conscious effort to say "This thread is going nowhere, we're just rambling." And leave. I'm not going to give you some more, in your words, "devastating" blows because I have never done so. You're the one who takes everything I say and rage over it. This thread has obviously gone SO far off course that it's down to barebones fighting almost. That's why I've left the debate. Call me a coward or pansy all you want, but at least I'm mature enough to admit that I'm not going any further because it's just going to all turn to one massive shit fest.

[CourageWolf]

Yet you come back to argue some more...

[Severus Snape]

Yet you come back to argue some more...It is a sign of my victory. Come to my feasting halls tonight, the mead shall flow freely.

This statement says differently. Anyone who disagrees with you does not think and not free thinking or capable of making rational decisions on their own. If this statement doesn't imply that you are better than anyone who disagrees with you, I'd think about restating it.

Their beliefs are uniform, and worse than that the main tenets which happen to be the most outlandish to grasp are the widely accepted ones. While I am completely free thinking, many Christians rely on the preaching of the 'institution', whatever that may be.

It's also contradictory. It's not very autonomous if they agree with what you are saying.It shows a willingness to challenge authority and widely held incorrect beliefs.

Agreeing with you would be the same as following a religion, which automatically removes autonomy.No, since I am not a religion.

To me, it appears you have just as bad, if not worse of a superiority complex than a lot of Christians have. You're so blind that you can't even see how similar you are to an extremist Christian. You're blinded by your own perceived superiority. It really is losing the debate for you.
Oh puh-lease. I've been told so many times I am going to hell the phrase has lost all meaning to me.

[littlerascal]

It is a sign of my victory. Come to my feasting halls tonight, the mead shall flow freely.



Their beliefs are uniform, and worse than that the main tenets which happen to be the most outlandish to grasp are the widely accepted ones. While I am completely free thinking, many Christians rely on the preaching of the 'institution', whatever that may be.

It shows a willingness to challenge authority and widely held incorrect beliefs.

No, since I am not a religion.


Oh puh-lease. I've been told so many times I am going to hell the phrase has lost all meaning to me.

You are not completely free thinking...you obviously follow something, whether it be science or what not. Something has influence on your beliefs, thus making you not completely free thinking or autonomous.

Religion is an ideology, which is the same as your beliefs. People follow the ideologies of a religion and people would be following your ideologies if they agreed with you. Same thing. Atheism is technically a religion when you strip down the definition of religion.

Umm....I didn't tell you to go to hell? I don't believe in hell, so I'm not exactly sure where your last statement came from.

[Severus Snape]

Atheism is technically a religion when you strip down the definition of religion.And Christianity is a cult.

Umm....I didn't tell you to go to hell? I don't believe in hell, so I'm not exactly sure where your last statement came from.

not you

[littlerascal]

And Christianity is a cult.



not you

Most any organized group of people with a belief system is a cult. There are atheistic cults out there, I'm sure.

And you said that after quoting something I said, so I'm really wondering who it was to.

[Sugaree]

It is a sign of my victory. Come to my feasting halls tonight, the mead shall flow freely.

Technically, you've only won half the battle. You're still going up against rascal, but seeing as how my opinions means nothing to your supposedly superior beliefs, I'll stop here. Better?

[Perseus]

Technically, you've only won half the battle. You're still going up against rascal, but seeing as how my opinions means nothing to your supposedly superior beliefs, I'll stop here. Better?

Matt... you said that 3 of your posts ago, dude. -.-

Y'all should probably drag this discussion on over to "Religion", y'know?

Anyway, I don't think that you should have sex until your married because of all the chances you have with babies, mainly the baby part, the STD part is pushed way too hard from schools and your not really gonna get an STD, because most people wanna have sex with virgins, it's the truth, and if I was gonna have sex with someone, I would ask, no joke.

[littlerascal]

Matt... you said that 3 of your posts ago, dude. -.-

Y'all should probably drag this discussion on over to "Religion", y'know?

Anyway, I don't think that you should have sex until your married because of all the chances you have with babies, mainly the baby part, the STD part is pushed way too hard from schools and your not really gonna get an STD, because most people wanna have sex with virgins, it's the truth, and if I was gonna have sex with someone, I would ask, no joke.

Yeah...tell everyone with herpes that it's a joke....Herpes is transmitted in epidemic proportions.

[Perseus]

Yeah...tell everyone with herpes that it's a joke....Herpes is transmitted in epidemic proportions.

No, I'm saying schools are like, "everytime you have sex not married, you will get an STD."

[Ceaser]

I think its not wrong

[freshman]

i am personally going to try not to have sex before marriage.

[Magus]

Am I the only one who Discourage sex before marriage?

[BeautifulDisaster]

I don't care as long as it's consented, thought out, and preferably legal.

[Asylum]

sex is between two people who love each other and are ready to commit themselves. this commitment is called marriage. only then should it be ok to have sex because you want to give yourself fully to one person alone.

[Magus]

sex is between two people who love each other and are ready to commit themselves. this commitment is called marriage. only then should it be ok to have sex because you want to give yourself fully to one person alone.

I am with you.

It's hurtful to see young women in particular to lose their virginity; which I consider the most precious thing for a girl to hold; think of it as a breakable diamond. This diamond gift is suppose to be given to the one who will be your lifetime partner, and some kid you think he loves you and what not, and at the end you will find that the same kid is not your spouse.

[Evermore]

I am with you.

It's hurtful to see young women in particular to lose their virginity; which I consider the most precious thing for a girl to hold; think of it as a breakable diamond. This diamond gift is suppose to be given to the one who will be your lifetime partner, and some kid you think he loves you and what not, and at the end you will find that the same kid is not your spouse.

Exactly!!! People are saying "Well if you love each other very much then it's fine."

If you love each other so much why aren't you married? Then it wouldn't be a problem!!

[Magus]

Exactly!!! People are saying "Well if you love each other very much then it's fine."

If you love each other so much why aren't you married? Then it wouldn't be a problem!!

I think I need to rephrase it mate.

"This diamond gift is suppose to be given to the one who will be your lifetime partner, and not some kid you think he loves you and what not"

[2D]

Exactly!!! People are saying "Well if you love each other very much then it's fine."

If you love each other so much why aren't you married? Then it wouldn't be a problem!!

Marriage is silly though. It's a piece of paper and a break on your taxes. If you actually love someone you don't need some piece of paper to confirm that.

[Magus]

Marriage is silly though. It's a piece of paper and a break on your taxes. If you actually love someone you don't need some piece of paper to confirm that.

And how do you confirm that love? Sex?

on your taxes

What in hell is taxes?

I love my father, how do I confirm that? Simple, by doing the current father-son relation we have.

[2D]

And how do you confirm that love? Sex?

No, I don't believe you need anything to confirm you're in love.

What in hell is taxes?

Taxes as defined by the dictionary: "a sum of money demanded by a government for its support or for specific facilities or services, levied upon incomes, property,sales, etc."

In America, the government taxes the shit out of you. if you get married then you get to keep some of the money they would otherwise take from you. I don't know why, but that's how it works.

[Magus]

No, I don't believe you need anything to confirm you're in love.

Ok, am In love, what else? Where is that leading me?

In America, the government taxes the shit out of you. if you get married then you get to keep some of the money they would otherwise take from you. I don't know why, but that's how it works.


Gee! And I though here is f'ed up because of the expansive value.

[2D]

Ok, am In love, what else? Where is that leading me?

You have to find that out for yourself.

Gee! And I though here is f'ed up because of the expansive value.

As if stuff isn't expensive here?

[Magus]

You have to find that out for yourself.

Alrighty then. I hate forced and arranged marriage though. But I must take the consent of my parent on the on I love.


As if stuff isn't expensive here?

Nop, I did price comparison and it isn't.

[2D]

Alrighty then. I hate forced and arranged marriage though. But I must take the consent of my parent on the on I love.

I totally agree.


Nop, I did price comparison and it isn't.

May I ask where you live?

[Magus]

May I ask where you live?

OUT OF TOPIC: There are cool things called PM, it's awesome, use it.

No matter what, even if dating is not reachable.

A man must check the girl out before really marrying any one. And there should be love between them.

With no love, how will you marry some one you don't like?

[2D]

OUT OF TOPIC: There are cool things called PM, it's awesome, use it.

No matter what, even if dating is not reachable.

A man must check the girl out before really marrying any one. And there should be love between them.

With no love, how will you marry some one you don't like?

Point taken. =P


I agree that there has to be love between people before marriage. But do you need marriage to have love?

And if you marry someone you don't like then you are stupid.

[Magus]

But do you need marriage to have love?


Yes.

Even statistics shows, people who marry and yet never met before marriage(only the time of engagement) have better chances to stay longer.

Why do you think the divorce rate is so high where you live?
Because they think marriage is a stupid thing? No, there is no love between the spouses.

There are relations that goes without marriage. I acknowledge that.
But other complexities comes along.

Also, it is religiously needed from some one to marry the wife/man as the love of their life.

There is a reason why the word "fornication" was made. Again, it is dependent on many thing.

As I told you. Marriage is commitment, be it paper or pen. "The pen is mightier than the sword" as I heard.

Why do you think the LGBT's wants their right for marriage in the first place, while they can have sexual relation and love each without that commitment?

[burnout]

aaaa

[2D]

Yes.

Even statistics shows, people who marry and yet never met before marriage(only the time of engagement) have better chances to stay longer.

Why do you think the divorce rate is so high where you live?
Because they think marriage is a stupid thing? No, there is no love between the spouses.

There are relations that goes without marriage. I acknowledge that.
But other complexities comes along.

Also, it is religiously needed from some one to marry the wife/man as the love of their life.

There is a reason why the word "fornication" was made. Again, it is dependent on many thing.

As I told you. Marriage is commitment, be it paper or pen. "The pen is mightier than the sword" as I heard.

Why do you think the LGBT's wants their right for marriage in the first place, while they can have sexual relation and love each without that commitment?

Marriage ≠ love.

It just doesn't. People who never know each other then marry each other won't suddenly love each other. You don't have to be married to love someone. Otherwise no one would be married because they wouldn't love anyone.

And, care to show me those statistics? Sounds like you're saying arranged marriages are good.

[Magus]

And, care to show me those statistics? Sounds like you're saying arranged marriages are good.

I lost the link(sore excuse)

The story says sex before marriage and not love. And I just discourage sex before marriage, because it does effects you in many other ways.

And sex is not love.

[2D]

I lost the link(sore excuse)

The story says sex before marriage and not love. And I just discourage sex before marriage, because it does effects you in many other ways.

And sex is not love.

I agree that sex is not at all love. Eh, I'm indifferent on sex before marriage suppose.

[xurcroh]

I think it's not a problem. I'm 14 and I've already had sex with three girls so obviously it's not a bad thing. just gotta make sure to wear a condom or pull out in time.

[Evermore]

I think it's not a problem. I'm 14 and I've already had sex with three girls so obviously it's not a bad thing. just gotta make sure to wear a condom or pull out in time.

That's not something to brag about. and whether you do it or not does not change morals. I believe sex before marriage is wrong. Yo should only have sex if you love someone and if you love them you should get married.

[nick]

I think it's not a problem. I'm 14 and I've already had sex with three girls so obviously it's not a bad thing. just gotta make sure to wear a condom or pull out in time.
For goodness sake dont even think about pulling out in time. That is the most unreliable form of contraception ever, in fact it doesnt really count as contraception. If you want to become a father through stupidity that's the way to do it.

That's not something to brag about. and whether you do it or not does not change morals. I believe sex before marriage is wrong. Yo should only have sex if you love someone and if you love them you should get married.
Love isnt always as simple or as tidy as that. There may be all sorts of reasons why you cant get married. In many places one of those would be because you are gay.

[Evermore]

The debate was the morality of sex before marriage. People who have come to terms with there homosexuality and have come out have tossed any religious belief of sex before marriage out the window and can not be worried about those kind of things.

[Perseus]

If you are homosexual then the whole morality thing is tossed out the window and just be sure to use protection.

Did you just call gay people immoral?

[Evermore]

Did you just call gay people immoral?

Wow, word twisting much? I simply stated that if they are homosexual that the rules of christianity(or other religions) do not apply to their personal belief. I'm not saying because you're gay you see nothing wrong with killing people I simply said that if you are gay you should not worry whether sex is something you have to wait for before gay marriage is leaglized/people accept it.

[2D]

Did you just call gay people immoral?

It would appear that way.

[Perseus]

Wow, word twisting much? I simply stated that if they are homosexual that the rules of christianity(or other religions) do not apply to their personal belief. I'm not saying because you're gay you see nothing wrong with killing people I simply said that if you are gay you should not worry whether sex is something you have to wait for before gay marriage is leaglized/people accept it.

Sorry, I'm starting to assume things since you give off this Nazi like Christian troll characteristic, my bad.

[Evermore]

Sorry, I'm starting to assume things since you give off this Nazi like Christian troll characteristic, my bad.

Nazi/Christian < Nothing to do with each other.

I would like to know where you get this assumption.

[Perseus]

Nazi/Christian < Nothing to do with each other.

I would like to know where you get this assumption.

The what's its face thread... um... Oh yeah, "was the Earth created in six days?"

And, when someone says Nazi, it just means like really strict, etc.

[Evermore]

The what's its face thread... um... Oh yeah, "was the Earth created in six days?"

And, when someone says Nazi, it just means like really strict, etc.

Strange... I see myself as much less close minded then other christians.

[Kahn]

I honestly believe in this. If both of the people in the couple truly love each other they should be willing to wait. Although.. If they truly love each other they should be able to maintain a mature sexual relationship... So honestly I think I would wait but I don't think the world would end if I didn't.

[Evermore]

I honestly believe in this. If both of the people in the couple truly love each other they should be willing to wait. Although.. If they truly love each other they should be able to maintain a mature sexual relationship... So honestly I think I would wait but I don't think the world would end if I didn't.

This guy^^^:rolleyes:

Exactly how I feel. I just think I am not good at phrasing. I have come to believe this guy is awesome after seeing his posts pop up everywhere like angry mosquitos wanting to be noticed.

[Kahn]

This guy^^^:rolleyes:

Exactly how I feel. I just think I am not good at phrasing. I have come to believe this guy is awesome after seeing his posts pop up everywhere like angry mosquitos wanting to be noticed.

My name is Adam..

I am bored and tired. I need to entertain myself so this is what I am doing :D

Thank you for the compliment though.

[Evermore]

Hmm.... I fail at being funny. I think I just pissed you off.

[Severus Snape]

or pull out in time.

That doesn't work, you know.

[peaceloverugby]

Well, seeing as I can only get married in five states, I doubt I'll be waiting until then...

As for heterosexuals, who cares? There's nothing sacred about marriage anymore, it has become nothing more than a legal contract between two adults. In the US 50% end in divorce, it's one of the easiest contracts to get out of.

[Camazotz]

Sex is not just done in the missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation. People can have sex for sexual pleasure, not just to make a child. For this reason, people should be able to have consensual sex as often as they like at any age. Sure, it sounds like it might get out of control, and it may, but that doesn't make all sex immoral. Sex can even be done for fun.

[Stolen Memories]

Sex is not just done in the missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation. People can have sex for sexual pleasure, not just to make a child. For this reason, people should be able to have consensual sex as often as they like at any age. Sure, it sounds like it might get out of control, and it may, but that doesn't make all sex immoral. Sex can even be done for fun.

Yes, the way I see it and it seems to be changing, but as of right now, I see it as OK, and not OK. On a PERSONAL level I see sex as a gift, its my body, and it's the best gift I can give someone I love. I want to be absolutely positive that I love this person before I give that to them. When i come to that realization I do not know, before/after marriage, it doesn't matter.

The person I am with now, we've been together 4 months, and we're starting to introduce a few things... I see this as OK. I care about him, I want to please him.



For all your REALLY religious people that have good biblical sense, because mine SUCKS, what does the bible say about sex before marriage? Why is it wrong? I get all the fortification stuff and going after taken people but the world is different...

Back then you could get married as easily as becoming BF/GF, so in a way is this *Sex Before Marriage* thing the same as no sex before commitment?

[Dive to Survive]

I think it's wrong simply because of my beleifs. I think sex is a thing for married couples.

[Stolen Memories]

I think it's wrong simply because of my beleifs. I think sex is a thing for married couples.


Ok but why do you feel this way?

[Scarface]

In the state of florida homosexual's cannot get married, but i have had sex before so i guess i think its ok

[Dive to Survive]

Ok but why do you feel this way?

I just think that it is reserved for married couples. That it is a serious thing and should only be done with somebody that you are willing to and devoted to spending your life with. What do you think? :)

[Sage]

I just think that it is reserved for married couples. That it is a serious thing and should only be done with somebody that you are willing to and devoted to spending your life with. What do you think? :)

I think we shouldn't tell consenting adults how to enjoy themselves.

[Dive to Survive]

I think we shouldn't tell consenting adults how to enjoy themselves.

Huh, funny, I dont remember asking you. But its always good to hear your input:rolleyes:

[Sage]

Huh, funny, I dont remember asking you.

I don't remember needing your approval. Typically, the way ROTW works is, person A say something stupid, and person B comes along to point out why their reasoning is stupid.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Huh, funny, I dont remember asking you. But its always good to hear your input:rolleyes:

Yeah, what you say isn't going to do anything to me. I'm going to get my dick wet and enjoy it. Good luck waiting until your like 30 or something.

[Dive to Survive]

I dont care what it does to you :P

[Rutherford The Brave]

I dont care what it does to you :P

So you wont mind me doing it infront of you?

[Sage]

I dont care what it does to you :P

13 year old enters debate forum.
13 year old makes highly opinionated post.
13 year old has his views challenged.
13 year old: "DO WHAT YOU WANT! IT'S MY OPINION! I DON'T CARE!!"

[Stolen Memories]

I just think that it is reserved for married couples. That it is a serious thing and should only be done with somebody that you are willing to and devoted to spending your life with. What do you think? :)


I think it is definitely a very very serious thing to consider. It's my body and its my choice who gets it, its a gift that I want to give someone that I care that much about... Someone I'm sure I want to have it..

The way I see it... if you care that much about someone why not wait till Marriage? Just to say you did it?

[Sage]

if you care that much about someone why not wait till Marriage?

Because it feels good.

[Ryhanna]

I'm personally going to wait, not necessarily until marriage. Out of my own personal decsion. Pfft, I couldn't care less if Im a virgin at 25. Most of my friends aren't virgins now and I just don't feel like chucking my dignity down the drain for sex.
On the whole, I think celibacy is a personal decision. There's some people who I would definatley recommend celibacy to. (i.e most hollywood starlets ... I'd pay for the chastity belts :P)

[Sage]

Pfft, I couldn't care less if Im a virgin at 25.

With the majority of my friends being in their 20s, I feel it safe to say you'll probably be singing a different tune down the road.

[Stolen Memories]

Because it feels good.

Simply because I CAN... And I have no reserves, I will freely have legal consensual sex... But my BF is very against it and I care enough about him to wait.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Simply because I CAN... And I have no reserves, I will freely have legal consensual sex... But my BF is very against it and I care enough about him to wait.

Dude getting past the past 16 years was hard enough why wait longer! Let me fuck!

[Ryhanna]

With the majority of my friends being in their 20s, I feel it safe to say you'll probably be singing a different tune down the road.

I have bigger things to focus on other than getting laid. One day, yeah, I'll probably change my mind. But right now the most important thing to me is my future. I don't want to throw my hard work away for a relationship.

[Sage]

I don't want to throw my hard work away for a relationship.

>implying one can't have nice things whilst working on a relationship
>implying one needs to be in a relationship to have sex

[Stolen Memories]

>implying one can't have nice things whilst working on a relationship
>implying one needs to be in a relationship to have sex

YOU don't need to be in a relationship, but most people in this world aren't sluts.

And all he's saying is he's just not ready, he wants to work hard and focus on his school work so that when he is ready for a relationship he can relax and coast more through life.

[Ryhanna]

>implying one can't have nice things whilst working on a relationship
>implying one needs to be in a relationship to have sex

Im not implying either of those things thank you.
Implying I need to be in a relationship to have sex. I'm not the sort of person who just has sex with randoms. And I'm too busy to work on a relationship right now. I was talking about my situation, not the situation in general.

[2D]

Im not implying either of those things thank you.
Implying I need to be in a relationship to have sex. I'm not the sort of person who just has sex with randoms. And I'm too busy to work on a relationship right now. I was talking about my situation, not the situation in general.

>implying that all people are random people until you date them

[Stolen Memories]

>implying that all people are random people until you date them

~Implying you have no self morals.

[CaptainObvious]

Why does having sex with people one is not in a relationship with or married to mean one has no self morals? That does not at all follow. Sex feels good. It's also an act that should have some gravity attached to the decision. But there is no reason why having sex outside of a relationship should mean that one has no self morals. What if they just want some sexual satisfaction with someone they are attracted to without the attendant burdens of a formal relationship? And what is wrong with that, exactly?

[Sage]

~Implying you have no self morals.
>Implying the only morals are your morals.

[Stolen Memories]

Why does having sex with people one is not in a relationship with or married to mean one has no self morals? That does not at all follow. Sex feels good. It's also an act that should have some gravity attached to the decision. But there is no reason why having sex outside of a relationship should mean that one has no self morals. What if they just want some sexual satisfaction with someone they are attracted to without the attendant burdens of a formal relationship? And what is wrong with that, exactly?


Oh but you see that has many opinionated answers.

In my unprofessional opinion one must be in a relationship to be sexually active. Sexual Intimacy should be done in a love filled relationship. There is no need for a 'feel good' remedy, if you need that, again do it with someone you love. Yourself.

[Sage]

In my unprofessional opinion one must be in a relationship to be sexually active.
That's no fun.

Sexual Intimacy should be done in a love filled relationship.
Why?

There is no need for a 'feel good' remedy,
You can use that argument against anything pleasurable in life.

if you need that, again do it with someone you love. Yourself.
No one loves me and neither do I. Why should I be denied sexual gratification?

[Rutherford The Brave]

Oh but you see that has many opinionated answers.

In my unprofessional opinion one must be in a relationship to be sexually active. Sexual Intimacy should be done in a love filled relationship. There is no need for a 'feel good' remedy, if you need that, again do it with someone you love. Yourself.

Dude its called being a hedonist, and If you are one I doubt you want to make someone fall in love with you, when your main goal is pleasure.

[Dive to Survive]

No one loves me and neither do I. Why should I be denied sexual gratification?

I'm sure somebody loves you. You just haven't found 'em yet :)

[Travis22]

i think its good for some people to wait but 90% of american teens havent waited and have already done it numerous times :)

[Sage]

I'm sure somebody loves you. You just haven't found 'em yet :)
Pop culture reference that was only meant to be partially serious and clearly went way over your head.

i think its good for some people to wait but 90% of american teens havent waited and have already done it numerous times :)
I can pull statistics out of my ass too.

[Dive to Survive]

Pop culture reference that was only meant to be partially serious and clearly went way over your head.

Whatever floats your boat

[Sage]

Whatever floats your boat
Or rather, sinks yours. If you're just going to say "whatever" every time someone argues with you, why argue at all? It only makes you look like an even poorer debater and anyone with more brain cells than a pine cone can see right through it.

[Dive to Survive]

Huh, I dont know, pine cones are smarter than they look ;)
I already explained my beleif and debated so now im just seeing what other people think and this isnt a pop culture debate.

[2D]

I think it's wrong simply because of my beleifs. I think sex is a thing for married couples.

I already explained my beleif and debated so now im just seeing what other people think and this isnt a pop culture debate.

That's not stating your beliefs, and you've debated nothing. Enlighten me O wise bible thumper.

[Dive to Survive]

That's not stating your beliefs, and you've debated nothing. Enlighten me O wise bible thumper.

I explained it in a later post. Thanks for paying attention

[2D]

I just think that it is reserved for married couples. That it is a serious thing and should only be done with somebody that you are willing to and devoted to spending your life with. What do you think? :)

I explained it in a later post. Thanks for paying attention

Oh you mean that one?

From there you proceeded to say (paraphrased) "I don't care what you do." "I don't care what you think" "someone loves you" "This isn't pap culture"


Now, can someone, anyone tell me what part of that was debating?

[Dive to Survive]

Fine, wrong word choice. Happy? (By the way I said 'pop' culture not pap culture)

[2D]

Fine, wrong word choice. Happy? (By the way I said 'pop' culture not pap culture)

No. Changing up those words does not boost the intellectual value of them nor the debating properties of them. I suggest you lurk moar and learn to debate properly.

[Spinder]

To each their own, I say. We all have to make our own choices in life, and sex is a very personal decision that only you can make for yourself.

[Disco Jones]

Kaname's argument is completely valid, actually. All that matters is that you and your partner share compatible sexual beliefs, beyond that it's nobody's business what you do and there's no reason to care what others do.

[CaptainObvious]

Kaname's argument is completely valid, actually. All that matters is that you and your partner share compatible sexual beliefs, beyond that it's nobody's business what you do and there's no reason to care what others do.

Kaname's point of view is, for himself, equally valid. His argument is not, since it consists of... well, nothing.

[Disco Jones]

Kaname's point of view is, for himself, equally valid. His argument is not, since it consists of... well, nothing.

That's because there's no argument to be had, sexual behavior is a personal thing. "Whatever floats your boat" is a legitimate response, we can discuss our personal beliefs on sexuality but we can't determine if premarital sex is right for anyone but ourselves.

[Stolen Memories]

That's because there's no argument to be had, sexual behavior is a personal thing. "Whatever floats your boat" is a legitimate response, we can discuss our personal beliefs on sexuality but we can't determine if premarital sex is right for anyone but ourselves.

FINALLY!

your right. Its not really debatable.. all I really wanted was your own feelings on the fact rather than saying yours is right.

Who ever has the ability to say one religion, one motive, one belief is wrong, and theirs is right?

[2D]

FINALLY!

your right. Its not really debatable.. all I really wanted was your own feelings on the fact rather than saying yours is right.

Who ever has the ability to say one religion, one motive, one belief is wrong, and theirs is right?

Because I don't believe in lies. I hold my opinions based upon truths.

[Rutherford The Brave]

FINALLY!

your right. Its not really debatable.. all I really wanted was your own feelings on the fact rather than saying yours is right.

Who ever has the ability to say one religion, one motive, one belief is wrong, and theirs is right?

Apparently Christianity.

[Sage]

Who ever has the ability to say one religion, one motive, one belief is wrong, and theirs is right?

Why would anyone hold a belief they didn't think is right?

[Disco Jones]

Because I don't believe in lies. I hold my opinions based upon truths.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here.

[Peace God]

i don't regret it and it doesnt go against my morals
sex doesnt have to involve love
and as many others have already said...marriage is overrated anyways

[2D]

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here.

Same thing as Deschain but worded differently. I hold opinions I think are true. So I have the ability to say my opinions, beliefs, motives, and morals are right.

[Disco Jones]

Okey dokey, you can believe premarital sex is all right and Kaname can believe it isn't and you can both act according to those beliefs. Are you trying to say that others should behave as you do?

[Stolen Memories]

Why do you always assume you know what everyone's saying? Why do you assume that your right and everyone else is wrong?

No one can be WRONG in this debate, it's just not possible, because love/sex/religion, it's all personal. There personal choices that no body can take out of any body else's ability.

[2D]

Okey dokey, you can believe premarital sex is all right and Kaname can believe it isn't and you can both act according to those beliefs. Are you trying to say that others should behave as you do?

Naw, I'd much prefer that people question everything. Simple as that.

Why do you assume that your right and everyone else is wrong?

Why would anyone hold a belief they didn't think is right?

[Disco Jones]

Was that your point, then? Fair enough, but it would have been a lot smoother if you just said that in the first place.

[xiaozi]

I'm a little late, but I'll say this:

For me, sex is beautiful. Sex shouldn't be with just anyone. Sex is the highest form of communication two people can have. And that's not something I would want with just anything. Sure it's fun, but it's so much more than just some good feelings. Sex is about two people wanting to share something beautiful with each other. If it's before marriage and they're both ready, that's great. If it's after marriage, they both should be ready, because a sexless marriage isn't a marriage at all.

[Sage]

Sure it's fun, but it's so much more than just some good feelings.

Not really. As I said earlier, love and sex are like nachos and cheese. Good on their own, but better together. You can't blame someone for only wanting one or the other. If two people want to have sex, they shouldn't have to go through all the work needed in a relationship.

[aleexax3]

i think sex before marriage is fine its nothing bad

[Amnesiac]

There's nothing wrong with it, it's a personal matter.

[debo94]

i think the sex before marriage really isn't good becuase its a sin, but if you really cant take it and have to do it, you should do it with someone who you care about and really wanna be. Not just someone you think looks good, or would be great in bed

[Sage]

Not just someone you think looks good, or would be great in bed

Why not? You don't need to love someone to have sex with them.

[Dive to Survive]

Why not? You don't need to love someone to have sex with them.

You should be careful, pre-marritial sex might have you end up with STD's. I'd rather have sex after marriage, than risk getting something by having sex before marriage and the not being able to have sex when you meet someone that you actually want to have a family with.

[Sage]

You should be careful, pre-marritial sex might have you end up with STD's. I'd rather have sex after marriage, than risk getting something by having sex before marriage and the not being able to have sex when you meet someone that you actually want to have a family with.

Your opinion on sex will be worth something once you're nearly done with puberty.

[The Madman]

Its fine and its done

[maestro15]

Its A- ok with me. Even though Im jewish i think that its absolutely alright. because after marriage people tend to gain weight and loose hair. Just as long as you do it when you are economically stable, very educated with the dangers, and you are very prepared! Sex is like a fireplace, just as long as you stay within the parameters of the fireplace, you wont burn the house down. If youre uneducated about fire, you can burn your house down!

[Sage]

Its fine and its done

It's well-spoken and insightful posts like this one that make me question why we even have a debate forum on VT.