The N-Word

[icililim]

To black americans is the n-word as offensive as it it made out to be?

[Mr. Smithers]

Yes it is. Being black myself, I find it very offensive.

I find it offensive, because whenever I hear it, I think of slavery. The worst thing man ever thought of.

[Silverfist64]

just out of curiousity...then why do african americans where i live always call each other the n-word. It just doesnt make sense to me. I understand the past of the whites using that word offensively and thereby symbolizing an insult today, but then african americans use it as a greeting jester to one another.

[Mr. Smithers]

just out of curiousity...then why do african americans where i live always call each other the n-word. It just doesnt make sense to me. I understand the past of the whites using that word offensively and thereby symbolizing an insult today, but then african americans use it as a greeting jester to one another.

You are judging the select few African American's who are ignorant. You can't judge a whole race like that.

[Silverfist64]

You are judging the select few African American's who are ignorant. You can judge a whole race like that.

Please dont think I was being racist there. I even included in my post "the african americans who live by me". Im not here to offend anyone.

[Zephyr]

From talking to my cousin Collin, who's half African-American, and other people that I've met, I get this common consensus:

'Nigger' is offensive since that is the racial slur that's been used since slavery to demean the race.

'Nigga' is not, or at least not as bad, since it's 'slang' and when used that way it's more of a cultural thing.

I still refrain from using either though, I hate the way it feels when it's said.

[The Batman]

I don't really say it. I wouldn't want someone saying it to me so why should i say it.

It's not really offensive just surprises me.

[Resinflux]

>.< Words are what humans make them to be

[Ripplemagne]

Slavery wasn't as bad as is depicted most of the time. It's kind of like trying to historically chronicle parenting in today's society in the future when people are created artificially. Cases where the lady drowned her children are going to stand out, whereas the average mother isn't going to.

There were good slavers and bad slavers. For a slave with a good master, they lived a fantastic life and wouldn't have wanted to change it. And it didn't even start as a racial thing.

Blacks were sold to whites by other blacks (and mind you, whites were also slaves) and just over time, it took a perverted image. But compare their slavery in Africa to their slavery in America and you can understand why they weren't so keen about rebelling for quite some time. But slavery has been around for centuries with no racial affiliation.

The term "nigger" is no more offensive than the mind makes it out to be. People have a habit of romanticizing the bad things that happen to give themselves a reason to get angry and have a cause.

[Sugaree]

I find it offensive, because whenever I hear it, I think of slavery. The worst thing man ever thought of.

Slavery just doesn't extend to African Americans. A slave can be black or white. To be honest, it's just a word. Unfortunately, that word has been attached to pain and suffering, so we make it out as "bad." Slavery can't be deemed as the quote-unquote "worst" thing man ever thought of. One might say that war might be the worst thing, but that can be easily argued.

If you ask me, it's just a word; a word that is associated for something that happened over a century ago. I'm not racist, nor do I support racist agendas, but what I don't like it when people tell me to not say a word when that goes against my constitutional right of freedom of speech.

[Mr. Smithers]

If you ask me, it's just a word; a word that is associated for something that happened over a century ago. I'm not racist, nor do I support racist agendas, but what I don't like it when people tell me to not say a word when that goes against my constitutional right of freedom of speech.

I completely agree. Words are words. And yes, you should be able to say whatever you want. But people do have things called feelings. In that case, words become weapons.

[Sugaree]

I completely agree. Words are words. And yes, you should be able to say whatever you want. But people do have things called feelings. In that case, words become weapons.

But that just goes to show how sensitive people are when hearing a word. Even then, they need to realize that they were the ones who originally put hurt on the word, it's their responsibility to deal with the consequences if someone says it to them.

[Doctor Fate]

Well, I almost never hear this word used, nor do I ever get the opportunity to say it (not that I ever would). Mostly because the area where I live is not very racially diverse..

Seriously I hardly ever see any black people around here... almost everyone is white. I have no idea why, but the number of non-white people I have on my FaceBook can be counted on one hand. It's really weird.

Anyways, that isn't important. Like someone has already mentioned, I find it strange that it's perfectly acceptable for black people to call each other that word, but it's majorly bad if anyone of a different race says it. Especially a white person. I don't get that. Why is it never offensive if it's coming from someone of your own race?

I don't find it very offensive when someone else says it, simply because I am not black, but I avoid using any and all racial words like the plague, just because a lot of people do find them deeply offensive (of all races) and saying them can get you in a helluva lot of trouble. That one little word in particular can get you suspended from schools, fired from jobs, banned from internet websites, hated by entire groups of people, and even beat up, or better yet, killed. It's disturbing, how darned sensitive people are to it.

I can only remember three incidents in my life where I feel I've been blatantly guilty of being racist. The first time was in the 5th grade, and I made a racist comment to a black boy at school that I didn't like because he just plain wasn't very nice to me for whatever reason. I did not say the N-word to him, but what I said was still very racist and I don't want to repeat it because I am so ashamed of it. I got suspended from school for 2 days for that, and my father was very, very cross with me.

The other two times were both in high school. Once I made a passing comment that included the C-word, to an Asian boy that I'd *recently* been friends with and felt very hurt by. I never got in any trouble for that, though; he just never looked at me again.

The other time was when I called the most insanely popular guy in school, Jordan L, the N-Word, while also giving him a good sucker kick to his nodo place. Honestly I'm not sure why everyone liked him so much and why all the girls wanted him to stuff their cracks. What they saw in him is a mystery to me because frankly I never liked him at all, and I have a million reasons why I disliked him but I won't bore you with that crap. The important part is I didn't get in trouble for it, but he, like the Asian guy, he simply refused to ever speak to me again.

Despite everything, I am ashamed of both of those incidents and if I could do it all over again, I would have done things differently.

...Oh darn, I'm such a rambler. I have no idea what I'm talking about anymore.

But why is that word so offensive anyway? And why is always OK when it's a black person saying it to another black person? Just out of curiosity....

[quartermaster]

We can agree on many things, but I'm sorry, this is quite simply historically inaccurate.

Slavery wasn't as bad as is depicted most of the time.

Slavery in many cases was quite brutal in the colonial and anti-bellum South; it was especially brutal in the Caribbean. In the end, the numbers do not lie, millions of slaves died prematurely because of overwork and disease and that does not even include those who did not even make it on the trip over; in fact, in order to off-set the number of slaves that died on the plantations., there was needed, for an extensive period of time, a constant shipment of slaves to the colonies. It was not until there was a large population of slaves and anti-slave shipping laws began coming into place that slave births began to rise above slave death rates. Even then, the slave death rates were alarmingly high well into the 19th century.


There were good slavers and bad slavers.

To be sure, there were bad slavers and less bad slavers, in regards to the way they treated their slaves, but using the terms "good" and "bad" in this case is like saying there are “good” serial killers and “bad” serial killers, in the end, they are still oppressing a person and forcing them to work without consent.


For a slave with a good master, they lived a fantastic life and wouldn't have wanted to change it. And it didn't even start as a racial thing.

This is just pure revisionist, sugar coated history. Even with a so-called "good" master, the slaves rarely, if ever, lived "fantastic" lives; they were still, after all, bound servants. If they were to disobey, they would see how "fantastic" their lives really were. Many slaves would have just as soon left their masters if given the opportunity and if they could ensure that they would not be caught. That said, many slaves were well brainwashed by their masters, as they were kept ignorant and taught obedience through the Bible; moreover, many slaves were born into servitude, as such, they did not know freedom, so many did not actively seek it. However, there is something about man that strives to be free, so though many did not actively seek freedom when not brutally oppressed, many did not cease to take it when the opportunity arouse.


Blacks were sold to whites by other blacks (and mind you, whites were also slaves) and just over time, it took a perverted image.

What was perverted? The fact that men were enslaved without their consent? Or the fact that many a slave were worked or beaten to death by their masters? I will agree, many fail to realize that it was the black slavers who kidnapped the slaves in Africa (white slave traffickers did not, for the most part, even leave the coastal cities), however, that obviously does not rid the white slavers of the blame for creating the demand, but it simply spreads the blame to many parties involved.


But compare their slavery in Africa to their slavery in America and you can understand why they weren't so keen about rebelling for quite some time.

Again, revisionist, untruths; slaves had been revolting against their masters since before the founding of the United States and well into the Antebellum period (Prosser rebellion, Vessey rebellion, Nat Turner revolt to L'Ouverture in Haiti; hundreds of large scale slave revolts) It was not a matter of them "liking" their slavery, but a matter of organization and communication; do not forget, the slave owners were not stupid, they were quite apt at keeping the slaves separated and ignorant. The masters would mix slaves from different regions with different languages, they would refuse to educate slaves, they would split apart families, they would ban large gatherings of slaves, they would give certain slaves higher “positions,” as to turn slaves against each other; all of this was a system of control envisaged by the slave owning elite to ensure that slaves would not revolt.

Beyond that, you generalize African slavery just as you accuse the establishment of generalizing American slavery. In Africa, up until the time of the massive slave demand of the 18th and 19th centuries, most slaves were taken as prisoners of war, not kidnapped. Moreover, slavery was usually not a life sentence and the children of slaves, many a time, were not slaves themselves.


But slavery has been around for centuries with no racial affiliation.

Interesting non sequitur


The term "nigger" is no more offensive than the mind makes it out to be.

This is where we can agree, the word "nigger" is only as offensive as one makes it out to be. I think the word is an unnecessary word to describe someone, but many words are “unnecessary.” I do not personally find the word offensive, what I do find a bit egregious, however, is the revisionist disinformation you just tried to pass off as history.

[Ryhanna]

People make out that they are over all the racial things and are a happily multi-racial society, but words and simple guestures such as these offend people. i think we need to rip the bandaid off the wound and give it fresh air to heal.

[Ripplemagne]

Slavery in many cases was quite brutal in the colonial and anti-bellum South; it was especially brutal in the Caribbean. In the end, the numbers do not lie, millions of slaves died prematurely because of overwork and disease and that does not even include those who did not even make it on the trip over; in fact, in order to off-set the number of slaves that died on the plantations., there was needed, for an extensive period of time, a constant shipment of slaves to the colonies. It was not until there was a large population of slaves and anti-slave shipping laws began coming into place that slave births began to rise above slave death rates. Even then, the slave death rates were alarmingly high well into the 19th century.


Would you mind substantiating your claims if you're going to start talking about numbers that apparently "don't lie" (lol?)

How many people died during slavery? (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_died_during_slavery)

To be sure, there were bad slavers and less bad slavers, in regards to the way they treated their slaves, but using the terms "good" and "bad" in this case is like saying there are “good” serial killers and “bad” serial killers, in the end, they are still oppressing a person and forcing them to work without consent.


I'm going to continue to use "good" and "bad" because a number of slavemasters considered their slaves a part of the family and treated them much better than they'd have been treated in the work force. That's why I find it hilarious when people are like "TEH BYBL TEACHEZ SLAVRY", not understanding that being a slave in those times was better than doing anything else besides being a noble.

I think the word "slavery" is like a red tarp to a bull for most people because of movements that have demonized it by exacerbating the worst of the worst. I believe the days are behind us for slavery and that's fine, but it's not as barbaric as many people make it out to be. It's like saying that some teenagers torture their cats, so all pet owners must be evil; or, as you referenced, on par with being a serial killer.

This is just pure revisionist, sugar coated history. Even with a so-called "good" master, the slaves rarely, if ever, lived "fantastic" lives; they were still, after all, bound servants. If they were to disobey, they would see how "fantastic" their lives really were. Many slaves would have just as soon left their masters if given the opportunity and if they could ensure that they would not be caught. That said, many slaves were well brainwashed by their masters, as they were kept ignorant and taught obedience through the Bible; moreover, many slaves were born into servitude, as such, they did not know freedom, so many did not actively seek it. However, there is something about man that strives to be free, so though many did not actively seek freedom when not brutally oppressed, many did not cease to take it when the opportunity arouse.


And how does that differ from when you live under your parent's rule? They tell you what to do. You listen. If you don't, you get punished. Believe it or not, not everyone is comfortable being independent, so try not to speak for everyone.

By no means am I saying that the Civil War and the subsequent Civil Rights Movement was not a good thing. I think it's great that black people can be their own people in today's society. However, your "revisionist history" is just a byproduct of the liberal guilt that pervades our academia.

Your statement falls short because there are a number of slaves during that time who did not want to be free and were much happier in slavery. Why do you insist on speaking for an entire group of people that you have absolutely no ties to? I'm not saying there weren't atrocious practices or that all slave masters were good. I'm saying that slavery, in of itself, wasn't the problem. It was depraved people in power, which is a problem even today.

What was perverted? The fact that men were enslaved without their consent? Or the fact that many a slave were worked or beaten to death by their masters? I will agree, many fail to realize that it was the black slavers who kidnapped the slaves in Africa (white slave traffickers did not, for the most part, even leave the coastal cities), however, that obviously does not rid the white slavers of the blame for creating the demand, but it simply spreads the blame to many parties involved.


And again, that's no different than parenting. We aren't asked to be born. We don't choose our parents. By your logic, it is an abomination that we are born at all!

Look, I never said I supported slavery. I said that it wasn't as bad as it's marketed and it's black balled mostly with the worst case scenarios. It's kind of like the media; they focus only on the negatives of society.

Again, revisionist, untruths; slaves had been revolting against their masters since before the founding of the United States and well into the Antebellum period (Prosser rebellion, Vessey rebellion, Nat Turner revolt to L'Ouverture in Haiti; hundreds of large scale slave revolts) It was not a matter of them "liking" their slavery, but a matter of organization and communication; do not forget, the slave owners were not stupid, they were quite apt at keeping the slaves separated and ignorant. The masters would mix slaves from different regions with different languages, they would refuse to educate slaves, they would split apart families, they would ban large gatherings of slaves, they would give certain slaves higher “positions,” as to turn slaves against each other; all of this was a system of control envisaged by the slave owning elite to ensure that slaves would not revolt.


Again, absolutism and revisionist history taught in academia to create a boogeyman. All of which, we have no reputable source for determining how many participants were involved, but I guarantee you it wasn't the majority of slaves.

In fact, with the exception of Nat Turner's Rebellion and the Haitian Revolution which is covered below, every instance you just listed was leaked by other slaves.

Not that that would prove me wrong anyway. People rebel over stupid shit all the time in today's society and that doesn't exactly prove them right or speak for the majority. That's like saying that jihadists epitomize the thoughts of all Muslims. You're making a broad generalization based on a minority of people.

Nat Turner, by the way? Experienced "visions" (which we call schizophrenia today), which he used to get a religious foothold over his brethren. During his rebellioin, he even gave orders to kill white women and children. Yes, Nat Turner was, by today's customary standards, out of his bird. Oh, but he was a slave, so he must be a hero and a liberator, right? Nat Turner was a psychopath.

As for the Haitian Revolution, there were ten times as many black slaves as there were Frenchmen. By the laws of struggling of power, it is natural that they would assert their dominance in an environment where they are the dominant class. The government set up there was feudal and rooted in traditionalism, which is evidenced by the existence of the Maroons.

You had a melting pot of diversity. Naturally, the most dominant of the caste is going to overlap the others. But going beyond that, what does that prove? I've repeatedly pointed out that there were brutal practices, which we both accept. However, I pointed out that it's not so cut and dry as you're making it out to be and you insist that this is ludicrous.

You're attempting to gain a perspective on everyone's individual circumstances based on nada. It's very well possible that every single slave in Haiti was in horrible circumstances and they rose up and gave a huge "fuck you" to the French. That, however, is not proof that that's a universal case.

Beyond that, you generalize African slavery just as you accuse the establishment of generalizing American slavery. In Africa, up until the time of the massive slave demand of the 18th and 19th centuries, most slaves were taken as prisoners of war, not kidnapped. Moreover, slavery was usually not a life sentence and the children of slaves, many a time, were not slaves themselves.

And?

Interesting non sequitur


Blacks were sold to whites by other blacks (and mind you, whites were also slaves) and just over time, it took a perverted image. But compare their slavery in Africa to their slavery in America and you can understand why they weren't so keen about rebelling for quite some time. But slavery has been around for centuries with no racial affiliation.

Are you just looking to respond to everything I write or what?

I do not personally find the word offensive, what I do find a bit egregious, however, is the revisionist disinformation you just tried to pass off as history.

Remember something. The winners throughout history are the ones who get to write history. Who won the Civil War and the subsequent Civil Rights Movement? Not to say that the Confederacy was right because Abraham Lincoln, Wlliam Lloyd Garrison and Martin Luther King Jr. are some of my favorite historical figures in American History. However, absolutism has no place in discussing these things because anyone who lives in the world knows that that's not the way it works.

[CuriousDestruction]

very offensive. my friend, who is hold a degree in african american studies, had this to say on the subject. if you really want to argue with it, i'm not going to answer:

J. Gallows writes,

Per the usual, the issue over the use of the "N" word has risen it's ugly head, but this time, I'm just storing the post so that you chimps can find it later.

Time and time again, I come to the Gaian forum after dropping posts at the Spooks and Projekts guilds, and see the same ignorance in the cesspool that is the Hip-Hop and R&B forum..I remember when it used to be a halfway decent place to be, when Caz Nova first started it(shout out to him), and when there was discussion that occured, rather than seeing who could log the most posts of Clearchannel's token negro thug act of the week. While I'm not here to take shots at people's tastes, I keep bearing witness to the same ignorance on display over one word, and it's damn irritating.

Nigger.

Never in my 27 years of existence(and yeah, I'm a geezer), have I witnessed such a passion, an addiction, if you will, to using this word....I stay amazed at the black folks I see use it daily, and even more amazed at how many white, latino, and asian folks have latched on to using such a derogatory and destructive term. I know some of you are already taking your hands off of your private parts after having the R. Kelly tape up in a sepearate window on your computer and raring to post, but bear with me for a minute(since I know you don't want to read it, anyhow), and try to analyze this.

The word "nigger" is defined by Merriam-Webster as:

Main Entry: nig?ger
Pronunciation: 'ni-g&r
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of earlier neger, from Middle French negre, from Spanish or Portuguese negro, from negro black, from Latin niger
1 usually offensivesee usage paragraph below : a black person
2 usually offensive, see usage paragraph below : a member of any dark-skinned race
3 : a member of a socially disadvantaged class of persons <it's time for somebody to lead all of America's niggers... all the people who feel left out of the political process -- Ron Dellums>
usage Nigger in senses 1 and 2 can be found in the works of such writers of the past as Joseph Conrad, Mark Twain, and Charles Dickens, but it now ranks as perhaps the most offensive and inflammatory racial slur in English. Its use by and among blacks is not always intended or taken as offensive, but, except in sense 3, it is otherwise a word expressive of racial hatred and bigotry.

For those of you who are going to try to avoid the obvious, I shall assist you by highlighting a key point or two.

Main Entry: nig?ger
Pronunciation: 'ni-g&r
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of earlier neger, from Middle French negre, from Spanish or Portuguese negro, from negro black, from Latin niger
1 usually offensive, see usage paragraph below : a black person
2 usually offensive, see usage paragraph below : a member of any dark-skinned race
3 : a member of a socially disadvantaged class of persons <it's time for somebody to lead all of America's niggers... all the people who feel left out of the political process -- Ron Dellums>
usage Nigger in senses 1 and 2 can be found in the works of such writers of the past as Joseph Conrad, Mark Twain, and Charles Dickens, but it now ranks as perhaps the most offensive and inflammatory racial slur in English. Its use by and among blacks is not always intended or taken as offensive, but, except in sense 3, it is otherwise a word expressive of racial hatred and bigotry.

Let's analyze a few things from the basic text above, shall we?

1)The word "nigger" has never been synonymous with the word "ignorant"
This statement is often used in defense of the use of the word, yet is completely inaccurate. When the word was used (remember that time called "slavery" that no one wants to talk about?) and the word was linked to being a synonym(for those not in the know, a word that meant the same thing) for ignorant, it was done in a derogatory nature toward black folk(For those who still don't get it, let me "explain shit real good" to quote my man Skillz from VA-When they said, "Oh, nigger means ignorant", they were doing it to say all black people were ignorant, not to create a new word that meant ignorant). The true etymology of the word stems from a bastardization of the word "negro"(pronounced neh-gro in Spanish, not the knee-gro we're more familiar with), and was derived when the slaves were being handed off from spaniards to the states via the west indies.-I don't see anything in the spanish version that has to do with intelligence.)
(don't believe me?Check out http://www.ferris.edu/htmls/news/jimcrow/caricature/ for further details)

2)Based on the observation of the corrolation between stereotyping ignorance and black people("Explaining Stuff Real Good definition-"If you notice that when people say "nigger", it supposedly means ignorant, and you add on the fact that this was how black people were stereotyped before), there's no positive definition of the word.

Yes, I'm aware of Mos Def's statements on it, and yes, I'm aware of "all of them rappers who be sayin' it"-it still doesn't make it right, no matter how much your black friends with the limited vocabulary "be sayin' it!". Despite the definition above speaking about using it in the context of oppressed peoples(and before you argue this point, question this-if we live in a society that is set to benefit only the upper class and caucasian(oh, and by the way, if you're middle class and poor, that doesn't include you), why don't most black people you know let white people say it?), it's still recognized worldwide as a derogatory term.

The word has been offensive, and will continue to be, regardless of how much you hear Dave Chapelle say it; I laugh at Chapelle just as much as the next guy, but even as an emcee, I don't use it. Why?Simple-I don't want to corrolate being ignorant. It's funny-you use that word, you talk "black", but if you don't, and speak with some degree of intelligence you "talk white". Gee, considering that the word supposedly meant "ignorant" back in the day, I wonder why that association would take place?


"Still mo' blacks is dyin, kids ain't livin they tryin
"How to Make a Slave" by Willie Lynch is still applyin"
-"Re:DEFinition", Black Star

Willie Lynch...there's a name you might not know, and no, he didn't join G-Unit recently(they appear to be recruiting everyone as of late). This dashing fellow once wrote a document called "How to Make A Slave", and it appears to apply today in many respects. "But, but, there ain't no slaves today!It's not my fault!I didn't own one!". Slow down...no one accused you of anything. However, maybe I should point out how the use of the word corrolates to the strategies laid out in his work...

(italicized/bolded for emphasis by me)

"The more a foreigner knows about the language of another country the more he is able to move through all levels of that society. Therefore, if the foreigner is an enemy of the country, to the extent that he knows the body of the language, to that extent is the country vulnerable to attack or invasion of a foreign culture. For example, if you take a slave, if you teach him all about your language, he will know all your secrets, and he is then no more a slave, for you can't fool him any longer, and BEING A FOOL IS ONE OF THE BASIC INGREDIENTS OF AN INCIDENTS TO THE MAINTENANCE OF THE SLAVERY SYSTEM"

Hmm...where we have seen this before?Think about it.....what have we heard more of in recent times?Mos Def, Immortal Technique, these people can't get play....we need to hear some more of that kill, kill, murder, murder, ho, bitch, pimp shit, right?Forget having a balance and having your Onyx with your Talib Kweli-throw on a crunk CD and forget actually listening to the words!G-G-G-G-G-G UNIT!!!!




"Accordingly, both a wild horse and a wild or nature n-word is dangerous even if captured, for they will have the tendency to seek their customary freedom, and in doing so, might kill you in your sleep. You cannot rest. They sleep while you are awake, and are awake while you are asleep. They are DANGEROUS near the family house and it requires too much labor to watch them away from the house. Above all, you cannot get them to work in this natural state. Hence both the horse and the n-word must be broken; that is breaking them from one form of mental life to another. KEEP THE BODY TAKE THE MIND!"



"Take the meanest and most restless n-word, strip him of his clothes in front of the remaining male n-words, the female, and the n-word infant, tar and feather him, tie each leg to a different horse faced in opposite directions, set him a fire and beat both horses to pull him apart in front of the remaining n-word. The next step is to take a bull whip and beat the remaining n-word male to the point of death..."


These last two quotes might not seem to link, but hear me out.....you know how you hear a song on the radio, and you hate the hell out of it, but you find yourself humming it to yourself("But I don't be listenin' to the radio!"-yeah, well, try it with a CD or an MP3 player.)?. Let's assume, for a second, that you listened to a CD with compliments on your personality and appeareance over the course of a month. Chances are, you'd feel much better about yourself, and probably behave as such. In similar fashion, if you heard derogatory and depressingly offensive comments on yourself, you'd probably be depressed.

What do you think the word "nigger" exists for so staunchly(much and often) in black communities in it's current state?


In addition, the definitions of words or terms are only a minute part of the process. Values are created and transported by communication through the body of the language. A total society has many interconnected value system. All the values in the society have bridges of language to connect them for orderly working in the society. But for these language bridges, these many value systems would sharply clash and cause internal strife or civil war, the degree of the conflict being determined by the magnitude of the issues or relative opposing strength in whatever form. For example, if you put a slave in a hog pen and train him to live there and incorporate in him to value it as a way of life completely, the biggest problem you would have out of him is that he would worry you about provisions to keep the hog pen clean, or the same hog pen and make a slip and incorporate something in his language where by he comes to value a house more than he does his hog pen, you got a problem. He will soon be in your house.


Uhm....keep in mind I didn't say the above. WILLIE LYNCH SAID THAT HIMSELF. If this doesn't emphasize the previous points, I don't know what does.

Perhaps it's because this is part of the strategy of people who don't necessarily believe in equality to miseducate slaves to better reindoctrinate them?I don't believe there's some white guy behind a desk planning to put more malt liquer out on the streets to kill people who look like me, but I can assume, especially after the tactics of our president during Hurricane Katrina, that the people who do this don't care about it, and won't move to stop it(spare the Kanye comment and the debate on it's accuracy or inaccuracy-George Bush doesn't care about poor people)I drink alcohol and watch as much porn as the next guy, but I don't play the stereotypical bullshit, nor a race card(unless called for by blatant prejudice on the part of the other person), so don't get it twisted-I'm not a saint. I also won't, however, cater to some asshole who thinks that I'm only here to shuffle and eat watermelon by using it, especially if it's debilatory.

When I tend to present this argument, however, I tend to get excuses/retorts/arguments against it. Here are some of my favorites:

1)"But when I say it, I'm spelling it n-i-g-g-a/n-i-g-g-u-h/(insert-flavor-of-the-month-spelling-heard-on-MTV-here)!"

Uhm...analyze what you just said. You just said that when you say something(indicating sound) you spell(indicating writing) it differently. Ever notice how to, too, and two all sound the same?That also applies here.

2)"But, but, my black friends say it's okay for me to say it!Some of my best friends are black!"

This one gets tricky, but it's this simple-trust me when I say they'll respect you more for not saying it. They may not tell you, but they will, because they won't have to question if you think like the people who use it offensively(because it's so easy to tell them apart!).

Ah, and number 3...you thought you were safe, didn't you?

3)"But, but, I'm black!I have a right to say it!"
Follow me on this one-remember how you get mad when "those people who don't have permission to be usin' it"(a.k.a. the people you don't know, and pretty much anyone you don't feel like permitting to use it that day through prejudice and ignorance) use it, and then cite you for using it, asking the same question, "Why can't I use it if you do?That's a double standard!". Remembe how you normally had to shut the fuck up in that argument if you had any logic in your brain at all?

Here's a concept-don't use it at all

Save me the speech about how things need to be "less politcally correct to somehow make the word meaningless"-if it "didn't even mean nothin'", http://ytmnd.com("But that's a joke!"-rrriiiight........everyone who posts that is joking.) wouldn't have a ton of "N*gga stole my bike jokes". If it meant nothing, I wouldn't see idiots in here every five minutes trying to affirm their "downness" with hip-hop by using it often. If it was meaningless, you wouldn't be trying to think of a way to argue this point right now, despite the logic in the statement. If you, as a black person, do not use it, it automatically removes any right that anyone around you felt, presumed, assumed, or attempted to take to use it, and outs them as a racist imbecile if they choose to use it(if "they're not racist", it should be nothing for them to stop using it, right?). You're smarter than that, despite having the opposite beaten into you-STOP THAT SHIT.


Yeah, I know you didn't want to read the post, because "them words be takin' up too much of the page", and you have to run to post about whoever Clearchannel deemed to be flavor of the hour so you can seem as cool as your other 6 friends who all log onto Gaia in matching White Tees and Blue Jeans, but attempt to use the other 99 percent of your brain, and contemplate this for a moment-if the word is so important to continue this cycle, think about how much more impact you'd have if you didn't use it?

You may be suprised at what you find.

[XxHaViiK]

I hate hearing and I'm not even near dark skinned. I think the term brings down both whites and blacks. Blacks because that was the term used to call them when they were considered very low. Whites because we were the assholes that made it up... I can't stand racism...

[Perseus]

Words are what you make them.

It was used to call blacks stupid, basically, because that is what they made them to be since they never let them get educated.
Me, I barely say it, but when I do, it means that you're stupid.

[JackOfClubs]

I have never used that word, and I never will. I was taught to never say it, even the kids in my school that have the foulest language never use the word "nigger."

I do agree with Steph though, hearing people say "nigga" as slang is OK; my African American friend uses it all the time talking to his friends, and they use it all the time with him. I know it doesn't offend him, because its slang. If someone called him a "nigger" though, he'd probably beat the living shit outta them.

[ryanmichael]

i think this is hilarious the nword used to mean ignorant but since thats not how its used ,webster dictionary changed the meaning to black person as well as faggot meaning a bundle of sticks no means a homosexual male

[quartermaster]

Would you mind substantiating your claims if you're going to start talking about numbers that apparently "don't lie" (lol?)

How many people died during slavery? (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_died_during_slavery)


....


Remember something. The winners throughout history are the ones who get to write history. Who won the Civil War and the subsequent Civil Rights Movement? Not to say that the Confederacy was right because Abraham Lincoln, Wlliam Lloyd Garrison and Martin Luther King Jr. are some of my favorite historical figures in American History. However, absolutism has no place in discussing these things because anyone who lives in the world knows that that's not the way it works.

I have an entire rebuttal written, but seeing as you are banned and unable to defend your post, I am not sure if it is prudent to post...perhaps I will do it just to ensure posterity does not fall for these fallacies and untruths.

[badash]

Ok this is what i say to everyone. "nigger" is offensive but "nigga" isn't. Im a half black canadian so i dont know if it counts for america but from what ive heard "nigga" is more in a friendly, jokingly manner

[Buddy]

just out of curiousity...then why do african americans where i live always call each other the n-word. It just doesnt make sense to me. I understand the past of the whites using that word offensively and thereby symbolizing an insult today, but then african americans use it as a greeting jester to one another.

Yeah I have always wondered the same thing, It bugs the crap out of me that SOME of them go around school being all like " what up ngga?" But if a white student even says that word they get written up and suspended and most likely jumped. And yes I do know that all black people are not like that and I am in no way the least bit racist.

[Hyper]

very offensive. my friend, who is hold a degree in african american studies, had this to say on the subject. if you really want to argue with it, i'm not going to answer:

J. Gallows writes,

-SNIP-

Ha that was quite good

[iceyfresh]

You are judging the select few African American's who are ignorant. You can't judge a whole race like that.

Very true I know alot of white people who use it as slang with there friends and that's wrong!

[Sugaree]

Very true I know alot of white people who use it as slang with there friends and that's wrong!

So it's wrong if a white person calls another white person "nigga" but it's A-OK for a black person to say it to another black person then?

[Mental]

I have never used that word, and I never will. I was taught to never say it, even the kids in my school that have the foulest language never use the word "nigger."

I do agree with Steph though, hearing people say "nigga" as slang is OK; my African American friend uses it all the time talking to his friends, and they use it all the time with him. I know it doesn't offend him, because its slang. If someone called him a "nigger" though, he'd probably beat the living shit outta them.
Can I just ask, if that applies to only his black friends using "nigga" or all of his friends? And what if a black person calls him "nigger"? I'm a little confused about how some black people are completely OK with calling eachother "nigga" but go apeshit over the word "nigger"? They have the same origin, slang or not. It's a bit hypocritical to go crazy over being called a "nigger" yet calling your friends "nigga" as slang.

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of political correctness. I don't go around calling black people or anyone for that matter "nigger" myself, but it makes me laugh that people treat the word "nigger" as this great social taboo. Yet it's completely OK to use words associated with disability as insults or putdowns. I'm sure half the people who go crazy over the word "nigger" being used are the first people to call other people the word "retard" when they don't like someone or they're pissed off about something, when in fact someone who actually does have mental disabilities could be offended by that word just as much as a black person is offended by the word "nigger".

[Aves]

Political correctness makes me laugh. Honestly, does anyone know where the term "cracker" is derived from? It's not a damn saltine, it's the white man holding a whip. What sound does a whip make? Crack.

Also, people think that "African American" is the right way to address blacks in America. I think that's racist. Black people can be from any country if you think about it. There are blacks in Haiti, there are blacks in South America. And hell, why do we insist from YEARS of ancestry to call every black in America, "African American".

Am I saying "nigger" is appropriate? No. I hated writing it for this post, and I never use it. It should be avoided, but it will come up none the less.

[Perseus]

Political correctness makes me laugh. Honestly, does anyone know where the term "cracker" is derived from? It's not a damn saltine, it's the white man holding a whip. What sound does a whip make? Crack.

Also, people think that "African American" is the right way to address blacks in America. I think that's racist. Black people can be from any country if you think about it. There are blacks in Haiti, there are blacks in South America. And hell, why do we insist from YEARS of ancestry to call every black in America, "African American".

Am I saying "nigger" is appropriate? No. I hated writing it for this post, and I never use it. It should be avoided, but it will come up none the less.

You be wrong, mon copain. Cracker came from white people calling undesirable people from South Carolina and Georgia crackers. It was a deragotory term that white people used to call other white people.

[Sugaree]

Political correctness makes me laugh. Honestly, does anyone know where the term "cracker" is derived from? It's not a damn saltine, it's the white man holding a whip. What sound does a whip make? Crack.

Ha...haha really? The term "cracker" may have meant that back during the slavery times, but it refers to a caucasian's pale skin which resembles a saltine cracker. Jake is right too, but I highly doubt you'll see whites walking the street going, "WUT UP MA CRACKAAAAAAAAA!?"

[BeautifulDisaster]

I don't understand how people who are black call themselves(and others who are black) "nigga's" and when they are called it(by someone who is white anyway), it's offensive.

Why call yourself something you find offensive?

[scuba steve]

tch honest i dont find the word offensive as it's just a shortened term for the "Nigro" tribe that where put into slavery by the americans i still wouldn't call anyone coloured person by this as they personally find it offensive. it just like making fun of ginger people for being ginger, is that not racist too?

[BeautifulDisaster]

I don't see people who are ginger calling themselves those sort of names though.

[Camazotz]

Offensive words are offensive.

Maybe they're not offensive to you, but they can offend someone else. And while people shouldn't be overly-sensitive over words, sometimes they can feel justified in getting upset. I don't care what other people call each other, using a derogatory term as slang or a name shows immaturity and disrespect.

[Watchfulness]

I think it is agreed that the n-word is universaly considered a racist remark.

[2D]

Niggers call other niggers niggers but when a person from another race calls them a nigger they're suddenly offended. I have come to the conclusion that niggers are morons.

[Severus Snape]

Racial slurs are a sign of low intelligence, regardless who uses them.

[Watchfulness]

Niggers call other niggers niggers but when a person from another race calls them a nigger they're suddenly offended. I have come to the conclusion that niggers are morons.

Let's review history.

[munchausen]

I don't see people who are ginger calling themselves those sort of names though.

I do and so do some friends, but it's pretty common to be ginger in scotland so maybe that has something to do with it.

[2D]

Let's review history.

Erm, yes lets shall we, I'm pretty sure white people fucked over my people to. (my people being Cherokee) I'm not bitter though. No one in modern times has slaves. The past is the past. I'm not saying to forget it, but you shouldn't drag it out forever.

[littlerascal]

There were white slaves too.

Ever heard of an indentured servant? Ever heard of an apprenticeship? They are equivalent to slavery....lived in the same conditions, lived with the same treatment, etc. Liberalized history books seem to disregard that.

[2D]

There were white slaves too.

Ever heard of an indentured servant? Ever heard of an apprenticeship? They are equivalent to slavery....lived in the same conditions, lived with the same treatment, etc. Liberalized history books seem to disregard that.

So, you're saying since we were all slaves to someone at some point we should hate each other? I was merely pointing out the stupidity of some black people. Not all, but some. TBH I was going for rage or lulz more than an actual debate.

[littlerascal]

So, you're saying since we were all slaves to someone at some point we should hate each other? I was merely pointing out the stupidity of some black people. Not all, but some. TBH I was going for rage or lulz more than an actual debate.

My comment wasn't to you, 2D..I was just saying in general. Slavery has always been seen as white people owning black people. Well, through out history white people have owned white people, black people have owned black people, etc, etc, etc. Up until the very late 1800s a man's wife and children were his property and he had property rights over them. Basically the state could not intervene in anything a man did with his family. One major change to that came in 1838 with Ex Parte Crouse which basically says that "the rights of parents over children were not inalienable." This laid the foundation for the juvenile justice system. Prior to this, children were property and it was legal to do whatever you wanted with them...even as far as killing them...Interestingly enough, there were laws protecting animals before there were laws protecting children.

[2D]

My comment wasn't to you, 2D

My apologies.

[Perseus]

My comment wasn't to you, 2D..I was just saying in general. Slavery has always been seen as white people owning black people. Well, through out history white people have owned white people, black people have owned black people, etc, etc, etc.

Yeah, people seem to forgot that Romans and Egyptians and the Gauls, etc. slaved people after ransacking cities and stuff.

[Sugaree]

Offensive words are offensive.

Because offense is put on them when it shouldn't be. Words are words and there is nothing more than that.

I think it is agreed that the n-word is universaly considered a racist remark.

And other racial slurs like spick/wetback, gook, kike, and other various ones aren't universally considered racist?

[CourageWolf]

Because offense is put on them when it shouldn't be. Words are words and there is nothing more than that.

You don't think offense should be "put on" a word used to oppress an entire race? I don't see how that makes any sense.

[littlerascal]

You don't think offense should be "put on" a word used to oppress an entire race? I don't see how that makes any sense.

It's not a word to oppress an entire race! Negro means black in several languages....nigger comes from negro. The term "nigger" was only used to distinguish a black person...exactly the same as calling someone black, colored, African American (which is one of the worst names today...they are Americans), etc. Now, I can see words like spook, coon, etc being offensive, but nigger is not offensive.

[Sugaree]

You don't think offense should be "put on" a word used to oppress an entire race? I don't see how that makes any sense.

It's not used to oppress the race anymore though. It's the problem that black people are ignorant enough to put hurt on the word and say that it oppresses them. It's not like slavery is still legal. The word now is used to distinguish, just as it did back then, a black person. Words are words and are nothing more than that; putting some extra "meaning" to them is worthless and a COMPLETE waste of time.

[CourageWolf]

It's not a word to oppress an entire race! Negro means black in several languages....nigger comes from negro. The term "nigger" was only used to distinguish a black person...exactly the same as calling someone black, colored, African American (which is one of the worst names today...they are Americans), etc. Now, I can see words like spook, coon, etc being offensive, but nigger is not offensive.

I see your view point. But obviously black people inherit hate for the n-word and the fact that almost every black person takes offense to this word makes it offensive. All of my black friends get offended when they're referred to as "colored", that also being part of the definition.

I mean I joke around and call all my white friends the n-word, but I wouldn't classify a group of black people as "niggers".

It's not used to oppress the race anymore though. It's the problem that black people are ignorant enough to put hurt on the word and say that it oppresses them. It's not like slavery is still legal. The word now is used to distinguish, just as it did back then, a black person. Words are words and are nothing more than that; putting some extra "meaning" to them is worthless and a COMPLETE waste of time.

Slavery is no longer legal but racism still occurs a lot, whether you're aware of it or not. You don't think putting "hurt" on a word that people have probably used as an insult on them during their life in the past gives them the right to put hurt on a word?

[Sugaree]

Slavery is no longer legal but racism still occurs a lot, whether you're aware of it or not. You don't think putting "hurt" on a word that people have probably used as an insult on them during their life in the past gives them the right to put hurt on a word?

I understand that there is still racism occurring everywhere, and I am fully aware of it. If someone calls me a honky, would I take offense at it? No, because I don't go off and put some hurt on the word where I get upset and take offense. Another point you should consider is pure ignorance. If another nigger calls another one of his own a "nigger" or "nigga", there's no harm done; but if someone else calls that nigger a "nigger" or "nigga", then all hell breaks loose with Al Sharpton closing in to stomp your ass.

They have every right to put hurt on the word, but I'm saying it's useless because you're just going to further damage yourself emotionally. "Nigger" is a word, should be treated as such, and should be SEEN as such, nothing more nothing less.

[CourageWolf]

I understand that there is still racism occurring everywhere, and I am fully aware of it. If someone calls me a honky, would I take offense at it? No, because I don't go off and put some hurt on the word where I get upset and take offense. Another point you should consider is pure ignorance. If another nigger calls another one of his own a "nigger" or "nigga", there's no harm done; but if someone else calls that nigger a "nigger" or "nigga", then all hell breaks loose with Al Sharpton closing in to stomp your ass.

They have every right to put hurt on the word, but I'm saying it's useless because you're just going to further damage yourself emotionally. "Nigger" is a word, should be treated as such, and should be SEEN as such, nothing more nothing less.

I do agree that if blacks want to look at such a word as a highly offensive, they shouldn't be throwing it around at each other so lightly. But consider this a racial slur is really only empowered when used by a different race. Even if honky was looked at in society the same way nigger is, if a white person called you a honky you'd just think him a hypocrite and make nothing of it.

To address both your first and last points, you kind of contradicted yourself, but since you say you agree they have every right to "put hurt" on the word I'll just not go there. A word can't be viewed as a just word when it's being passed down from generation to generation of blacks as derogatory insult used on them since they were slaves, and still is used in that context by racist people today.

[Sugaree]

Even if honky was looked at in society the same way nigger is, if a white person called you a honky you'd just think him a hypocrite and make nothing of it.

Exactly, because he's doing the same as what black people do with the word "nigger".

To address both your first and last points, you kind of contradicted yourself, but since you say you agree they have every right to "put hurt" on the word I'll just not go there.

You're right that I did, but I still firmly believe that we have the right to context words how we want. It might be wrong, but if we have that right then we will use it for good or bad; in this case it's bad.