is Obama tarnishing the image of the USA around the world?

[StateRights]

i do not like Obama. i believe that he isn't a very good president and maybe one of the worst we've ever had. he lied during his campaign and i believe most people only voted him becuz he was colored but now the novelty has worn off i think that he's been exposed for the man he is. i do not like how socialist he is either and his health care plans suck and are infringing on traditional american freedom. USA is not like canada, Britian and europe which r closer to socialism and communism then we are, where ppl can hardly get there treatment and end up dying in ER cuz theres not enough doctors to help them. he is also against the right to bear arms and i bet if he had more power he would ban guns which is not ryt. hes not even a real natural born American citizen cuz he doesnt have da proper birth certificate 2 proove he was born in hawaii USA. i believe he woz born in Kenya, so he isnt even elegiable to president of america anyway.

Now what im really asking is to differentiate from the other obama debate on here, do you Obama is a threat to the image of the greatest country in the world?

i certainly do. not only is he a threat TO our country, but he makes us look weak to the rest of the world. he is doing what terrorists tell him to do and bowing down to the saudi leader who is a terrorist simpathizor and saudi arabia is a tyranical country where women have no rights n you can get killed if u speak out against the government thats my 2 cents. i dont intend 2 offend ne1 that likes obama. im just speaking my own view. so srry if i offended anyone.

[Sage]

Because Bush only did good things for America's image.

Cheers.

[StateRights]

Bush wasnt that gr8 but he is x1000000 better then obama

when 9/11 happened bush had the guts to go after bin laden and the terrorists who attacked us for no reason, and thats why we are in afghanistan and went to iraq. God bless USA and its allys.

I bet obama wouldnt have. obama makes us look like pussies to the rest of the world. at least bush made us look strong.

[Sage]

obama makes us look like pussies to the rest of the world. at least bush made us look strong.

There's stupid, and then there's ARMY stupid.

[StateRights]

what have you got against the army? my dads in the US navy and i find that disrespectful. thats not even a funny spoof of the Army Strong commercials.

if ur just going to say stuff like that and not argue your point properly, please dont bother replying in my thread

[Sage]

if ur just going to say stuff like that and not argue your point properly, please dont bother replying in my thread

I suppose I'll just take a little break from Ramblings of the Wise and come back when half the threads aren't just Fox News talking points.

[Sapphire]

Obama is the best thing to happen to America in a long time - much better than Bush ever was. At least from a foreign perspective.

And btw, the USA has had close ties with Saudi Arabia for years.

[StateRights]

I suppose I'll just take a little break from Ramblings of the Wise and come back when half the threads aren't just Fox News talking points.
Bashing fox news got old years ago. all news r biased, but at least fox news isnt as biased as communist news network aka CNN. gottttta love r. lee ermey from full metal jacket lol.

Obama is the best thing to happen to America in a long time - much better than Bush ever was. At least from a foreign perspective.

And btw, the USA has had close ties with Saudi Arabia for years.
do u even live in america? or better yet have u ever been here lately??

everythings been getting worse since he took office, and just becuz your foreign doesnt mean u know everything. my opinion carrys more weit than urs on matters regarding our country

obama has blinded all the liberal countries with propaganda

[Sage]

obama has blinded all the liberal countries with propaganda

Oh, the irony. :rolleyes:

[Sapphire]

You are talking about the image of the USA around the world so my opinion is very valid.
Your opinion does not carry more weight than mine simply because you are American and I'm not.

obama has blinded all the liberal countries with propagandaLol!
I guess he blinded the Norwegian Nobel Committee with propaganda as well, did he?

[CaptainObvious]

i do not like Obama. i believe that he isn't a very good president and maybe one of the worst we've ever had.

Why? There's no reasonable concrete basis for that opinion, so far. Especially coming on the tails of Bush.

he lied during his campaign

About what?

and i believe most people only voted him becuz he was colored

That's a stupid thing to think.

i do not like how socialist he is either and his health care plans suck and are infringing on traditional american freedom. USA is not like canada, Britian and europe which r closer to socialism and communism then we are, where ppl can hardly get there treatment and end up dying in ER cuz theres not enough doctors to help them.

Your assertions are not based upon fact. People don't die in the ER for lack of care because of doctor shortages in Canada, nor in Britain or Europe. What is real that you ignore is the tens of millions of uninsured in America, and you further ignore the major inefficiencies and deficiencies of America's current healthcare system.

hes not even a real natural born American citizen cuz he doesnt have da proper birth certificate 2 proove he was born in hawaii USA. i believe he woz born in Kenya, so he isnt even elegiable to president of america anyway.

That's just fucking dumb. You can find the birth announcement in the newspaper from back then if you want. You must either be on the receiving end of a massive bullshit pipeline, not like thinking for yourself, or both.

Now what im really asking is to differentiate from the other obama debate on here, do you Obama is a threat to the image of the greatest country in the world?

No. Foreigners love Obama, especially compared to Bush, who they hated.

i certainly do. not only is he a threat TO our country, but he makes us look weak to the rest of the world. he is doing what terrorists tell him to do and bowing down to the saudi leader who is a terrorist simpathizor and saudi arabia is a tyranical country where women have no rights n you can get killed if u speak out against the government thats my 2 cents. i dont intend 2 offend ne1 that likes obama. im just speaking my own view. so srry if i offended anyone.

This is just jumbled. What does standard courtesy mean about anything? America is cordial with - and over its long history, has actively supported or put in place - many extremely tyrannical regimes. Human rights are almost always secondary to other such concerns. And besides all of that, it's not like no other US president was cordial with the Saudis, they've long been US allies. You just seem to dislike Obama without valid basis, and you're casting about for good justification.

[StateRights]

You are talking about the image of the USA around the world so my opinion is very valid.
Your opinion does not carry more weight than mine simply because you are American and I'm not.

Lol!
I guess he blinded the Norwegian Nobel Committee with propaganda as well, did he?
no. your sayin stuff like how obama is the best thing to happen USA and all that yet u havent lived under his rule. thats like me sayin that gordan brown is the best prime minister britian ever had or stephen harper being the best prime minister canada ever had. do u even really no what obama is like besides from ur news which is most likely like CNN covered in liberal propaganda

obama makes us look weak. its a fact. and yes they r blinded in propaganda. obama is a wolf in sheeps clothes acting all peaceful yet he is oppressing us slowly

i must admit he is smart

Why? There's no reasonable concrete basis for that opinion, so far. Especially coming on the tails of Bush.
yeah bush bashing got old about 5 yrs ago
there are much better examples 2 use then bush u know. i even said bush wasnt gr8 but he is still better then obama

Ronald reagan and abraham lincoln were republicans and some of the best presidents USA ever had. most democratic presidents neva did ne good for the country. democrats used to support slavery, but republicans stopped it. its funny how every1 forgets that



"About what?"
he promised good change all over his campaign yet there has been no change xcept WORST changes. like he said hed get us out of the war, but he never instead has sent more troops. altho thats a good thing but he still lied. i bet some liberals r even angry about that.


"That's a stupid thing to think."
funny that coming from a canadian who doesnt live down here. in my school all the black kids said they wanted obama 2 be the 1st black president and every black person i no said dat they wanted obama to win cuz hes half black and some liberals thought it was time 4 a "change" so they voted obama for demographic reasons

his color was the primary reason he was elected. srry but it is. did u see after he was inauguarted CNN was all like "first african american elected"???

"Your assertions are not based upon fact. People don't die in the ER for lack of care because of doctor shortages in Canada, nor in Britain or Europe. What is real that you ignore is the tens of millions of uninsured in America, and you further ignore the major inefficiencies and deficiencies of America's current healthcare system."
ive been 2 canada and europe and havent heard nething good about your health care systems

and most of the uninsured ppl in america are lazy ppl who dont want to work.
why should they be parasites 2 the taxpayers?

at least if i see the doctor, i can actually see them when i like. if i was in an accident id be more likely to survive then if it happened 2 me in canada, britian or europe

universal healthcare is socialist. the government runs it nd history has taught us dat the government cannot always be trusted

"That's just fucking dumb. You can find the birth announcement in the newspaper from back then if you want. You must either be on the receiving end of a massive bullshit pipeline, not like thinking for yourself, or both."
funny that. he cant produce his proper birth certificate and becuz even tho his mom was a US citizen she wasnt old enough 4 him and living in the US long enough to have him granted automatic US citizenship and his dad was not american.

obama is a US citizen, but even so he isnt a natural born one. therefore shouldnt be president.


"No. Foreigners love Obama, especially compared to Bush, who they hated."
sadly yes. canadians and europeans love obama and so do the liberals here in america but they r all deluded

and he makes us look weak 2 the terrorist countries


"This is just jumbled. What does standard courtesy mean about anything? America is cordial with - and over its long history, has actively supported or put in place - many extremely tyrannical regimes. Human rights are almost always secondary to other such concerns. And besides all of that, it's not like no other US president was cordial with the Saudis, they've long been US allies. You just seem to dislike Obama without valid basis, and you're casting about for good justification"
thats a lie. america has NEVER actively supported tyranical countries.
thats anti-american propaganda

[Mal]

You asked 'is Obama tarnishing the image of the USA around the world?' So why, exactly, is it that when people from around the world tell you how he's affected our view of the U.S, you just say our opinions don't matter because we're not American?

And for the love of God learn to spell, your posts are painful.

For the record, not everything that goes against your belief is 'anti-american propaganda'. Sometimes, you're just wrong.

[StateRights]

You asked 'is Obama tarnishing the image of the USA around the world?' So why, exactly, is it that when people from around the world tell you how he's affected our view of the U.S, you just say our opinions don't matter because we're not American?

And for the love of God learn to spell, your posts are painful.

For the record, not everything that goes against your belief is 'anti-american propaganda'. Sometimes, you're just wrong.
i'm dyslexic and plus this is the internet. i dont have 2 bother to use grammar and spell everything right. ur not my english teacher thank you. i'm not stupid.

and u still havent got my point. im fed up of foreigners telling us how 2 run our country and stuff. my thread is about weather obama is tarnishing americas image. by image i mean by weather he makes us look strong or weak, ect

[Sapphire]

no. your sayin stuff like how obama is the best thing to happen USA and all that yet u havent lived under his rule. thats like me sayin that gordan brown is the best prime minister britian ever had or stephen harper being the best prime minister canada ever had. do u even really no what obama is like besides from ur news which is most likely like CNN covered in liberal propaganda

obama makes us look weak. its a fact. and yes they r blinded in propaganda. obama is a wolf in sheeps clothes acting all peaceful yet he is oppressing us slowly

i must admit he is smartNote the words "At least from a foreign perspective" in my post. I clearly gave a subjective view on Obama and America which was dependent on the fact that I am not American.

Obama does not make you look weak. He makes the USA look stronger since he is more dedicated to righting past wrongs. He is more dedicated to making this world a little bit better than Bush was and he has the diplomacy to achieve it.

Of course this is all from my liberal foreign opinion so you will undoubtedly tell me that I don't know what I'm speaking of :rolleyes:

Anyway, I have yet to see you give a proper reason as to why a foreigners opinion on how Obama makes America look is somehow less valid than your own in this thread...

Ronald reagan and abraham lincoln were republicans and some of the best presidents USA ever had. most democratic presidents neva did ne good for the country. democrats used to support slavery, but republicans stopped it. its funny how every1 forgets thatAnd yet it is the democrats that want to work on improving the access of the citizen's of the States to health care...Funny how you are focusing on the past and not the present here.


"That's a stupid thing to think."
funny that coming from a canadian who doesnt live down here. in my school all the black kids said they wanted obama 2 be the 1st black president and every black person i no said dat they wanted obama to win cuz hes half black and some liberals thought it was time 4 a "change" so they voted obama for demographic reasons

his color was the primary reason he was elected. srry but it is. did u see after he was inauguarted CNN was all like "first african american elected"???How does someone voting for a democrat because they want things to change illustrate that they were doing it simply because he is black? How do you know that theses people didn't see him standing up for something they believe to be true and right?

And the CNN comment would have been simply because he IS the first black president of the US. I fail to see how it is proof that he was elected purely on the basis of his skin colour.

ive been 2 canada and europe and havent heard nething good about your health care systemsThat would be because no health care system is perfect and people like to complain. You don't hear about the millions of people who are seen quickly, treated properly and effectively because people don't often comment on that sort of thing and it isn't seen to be news.

But last year the World Health Organisation ranked Britain's healthcare as 18th in the world, while the US is in 37th place. Source (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/11/nhs-united-states-republican-health)
The United States ranked between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana Source (http://cthealth.server101.com/the_case_for_universal_health_care_in_the_united_states.htm)
Considering that, how can our health care system be so much worse than yours?

and most of the uninsured ppl in america are lazy ppl who dont want to work.
why should they be parasites 2 the taxpayers?Where's your evidence for such a broad, sweeping statement?

at least if i see the doctor, i can actually see them when i like. if i was in an accident id be more likely to survive then if it happened 2 me in canada, britian or europeAgain, what is this statement based on?

universal healthcare is socialist. the government runs it nd history has taught us dat the government cannot always be trustedHow is it socialist when the health care providers are not employed by the government?


funny that. he cant produce his proper birth certificate and becuz even tho his mom was a US citizen she wasnt old enough 4 him and living in the US long enough to have him granted automatic US citizenship and his dad was not american.

obama is a US citizen, but even so he isnt a natural born one. therefore shouldnt be president.As long as at least one of your parents is an American citizen at the time of your birth, you are eligible to become the president of the USA.

sadly yes. canadians and europeans love obama and so do the liberals here in america but they r all deludedTo be perfectly honest, you are the one that is starting to sound like the deluded one.

But would you care to give examples of how he is so manipulative and of how we have all been fooled by him?

and he makes us look weak 2 the terrorist countriesExplain?

thats a lie. america has NEVER actively supported tyranical countries.
thats anti-american propagandaThe USA and Saudi-Arabia have had many dealings with each other going back as far as the 1930's when the two nations joined forces and created ARAMCO in search of Saudi oil.
In fact, the US-Saudi relationship strengthened after 9/11 with the Saudi King making three visits to the USA (2002, 2005, 2008) and Bush making two visits to Saudi-Arabia in 2008.

and u still havent got my point. im fed up of foreigners telling us how 2 run our country and stuff. my thread is about weather obama is tarnishing americas image. by image i mean by weather he makes us look strong or weak, ectLol, where have we tried to say that the USA should be doing X, Y or Z?
All we've done is give our opinions on Obama and whether he is good or bad for America's image.

You asked 'is Obama tarnishing the image of the USA around the world?' So why, exactly, is it that when people from around the world tell you how he's affected our view of the U.S, you just say our opinions don't matter because we're not American?Thank you! :)

[woody92]

most of the uninsured ppl in america are lazy ppl who dont want to work.
why should they be parasites 2 the taxpayers?

There are people who work a 70/80 week and cant aford to eat! so my point is that there are people that work as hard as they can, and still cant aford to pay for food let alone insurance. I know that when we first came to Spain my dad was working 60/70 hours a week and we couldnt pay for him to have insurance for his moped, but he had to get to work (with no insurance) for about 3 months! (I know car insurance is diffrent to healthcare, but its an example to back up my statement above!)

[Sage]

So, when someone registers just to argue a 100% republican viewpoint in ramblings of the wise, you really have to wonder if we're all just being republitrolled.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Obama hasn't tarnished our image at all, Bush did a fair enough job buttfucking our image over thank you very much.

[CaptainObvious]

no. your sayin stuff like how obama is the best thing to happen USA and all that yet u havent lived under his rule.

I live in America (this is going to be repeated a few more times, since it's a long post and I in no way expect someone like you to remember, by the end). I am also a foreigner.


thats like me sayin that gordan brown is the best prime minister britian ever had or stephen harper being the best prime minister canada ever had. do u even really no what obama is like besides from ur news which is most likely like CNN covered in liberal propaganda

See above comment, yes, yes I do. Your constant slandering of CNN is amusing, by the way, since I would be happy to take you on any day on their being more centrist than any other American news network.

obama makes us look weak. its a fact. and yes they r blinded in propaganda. obama is a wolf in sheeps clothes acting all peaceful yet he is oppressing us slowly

Specifically, how is Obama oppressing you? And, for consistency, did you equally stridently protest the many civil rights abuses of the last administration? Obama might not be a libertarian dream President but he's certainly doing better than his predecessor on civil rights.

i must admit he is smart

Well finally you got something right.

yeah bush bashing got old about 5 yrs ago
there are much better examples 2 use then bush u know. i even said bush wasnt gr8 but he is still better then obama

5 years ago Bush was only starting to become as unpopular as he is today, so that statement is just incorrect on the face of it. But more relevant, comparing Obama to a terrible President - Bush - and concluding that he is better is of course not an argument for his being good. However, it serves to illustrate your contradictory and absurd viewpoint. There is no way in hell you can reasonable say based on the relevant accomplishments and mistakes of their respective terms that Bush was better than Obama. I'll explain why, if you'd like.

Ronald reagan and abraham lincoln were republicans and some of the best presidents USA ever had.

Lincoln was excellent, and Reagan was decent but severely overrated. His ridiculous expansion of the national debt is inexcusable.

most democratic presidents neva did ne good for the country. democrats used to support slavery, but republicans stopped it. its funny how every1 forgets that

The latter fact has no bearing on the former. Besides which, it's the Republican party that institutionalizes racism today; what it did ~150 years ago is of little relative consequence.

he promised good change all over his campaign yet there has been no change xcept WORST changes. like he said hed get us out of the war, but he never instead has sent more troops. altho thats a good thing but he still lied. i bet some liberals r even angry about that.

So you picked one single thing he has had to modify from his campaign (with good reason) and that's your entire argument? Weak. Obama is doing very well by the standards of politicians, and the promises he has been unable to put into place have generally been stopped by Republican opposition.

Besides which, whether or not you think the changes are "WORST" doesn't make them lies.

funny that coming from a canadian who doesnt live down here.

Here's repetition #1: I do live in America, and lived in America for the entirety of the 2008 primaries and campaign. As a statistics major, campaigns hold special interest for me and I will guarantee you I followed that one far more closely than you. From America, where I live. (That's repetition #2!)


in my school all the black kids said they wanted obama 2 be the 1st black president and every black person i no said dat they wanted obama to win cuz hes half black and some liberals thought it was time 4 a "change" so they voted obama for demographic reasons

Well first of all, I needn't point out that unless you are substantially older than your terrible typing indicates, the "kids" at your school are just that, kids, and can't vote. So what they said is absolutely irrelevant. More centrally, black people almost always vote monolithically (>90%) Democrat, so this election was no change in that regard. You have not supported your thesis that "most", or even "many" people voted for Obama because of his race who would not otherwise vote for him anyways.

his color was the primary reason he was elected. srry but it is. did u see after he was inauguarted CNN was all like "first african american elected"???

The fact that it was found noteworthy does not mean it was why he was elected. You need substantially more argumentation to reasonably conclude that the votes of people who would not otherwise vote for him and did because of his race won him the election, to support what you said. Even McCain was gracious and spoke several times of the historic nature of Obama's election; do you think McCain voted for Obama, because he was black?

ive been 2 canada and europe and havent heard nething good about your health care systems

Well I've lived in Canada with family who are doctors, varying widely from standard GPs to chief of staff (head of medicine) at major hospitals. You've visited; you've never experienced the care yourself? Can you point me to some kind of valid evidence of what you're saying? Otherwise, I both call bullshit on the fact that you never heard anything good about our healthcare, and regardless of the veracity of your statement point out that it's still irrelevant. Limited samples mean nothing, and yours sounds very limited.

and most of the uninsured ppl in america are lazy ppl who dont want to work.
why should they be parasites 2 the taxpayers?

That's manifestly untrue. Again, back the assertion up with statistical evidence instead of stereotypes... if you can.

at least if i see the doctor, i can actually see them when i like. if i was in an accident id be more likely to survive then if it happened 2 me in canada, britian or europe

Again, you're just flat out making shit up and sounding stupid now. First, you're not more likely to survive an accident in America. You're just making that up. Second, unless you're filthy rich and pay your medical care out of pocket - like one wealthy woman I knew who was diagnosed (and later died of, sadly) with small cell lung cancer and to maximize her potential treatment flexibility got rid of insurance and paid out of pocket - you have no more freedom than I do to see doctors. What, your insurance doesn't have any guidelines? I have great insurance, and it's far more of a pain in the ass to see someone dealing with the medical system here than in Canada.

I've experienced both healthcare systems firsthand. What you're saying is, at the risk of repeating myself, bullshit.

universal healthcare is socialist. the government runs it nd history has taught us dat the government cannot always be trusted

Whereas history has obviously taught us that corporations can always be trusted, right?

obama is a US citizen, but even so he isnt a natural born one. therefore shouldnt be president.

Do you not know how to read? The birth announcement - and certificate, for that matter, and yes, it does exist - are from Hawaii. Hawaii is American soil. Therefore, Obama is natural born.

sadly yes. canadians and europeans love obama and so do the liberals here in america but they r all deluded

Well that answered your question above. And of those who are probably delusional here, the one claiming retarded things who cannot spell is the most likely candidate, just saying.

thats a lie. america has NEVER actively supported tyranical countries.
thats anti-american propaganda

Apparently you're just stupid. America regularly trades with China, who are responsible for many human rights abuses. America has long been close allies with Saudi Arabia (long before Obama, and if you're really angry about it you ought to be incesed with Bush [unsurprisingly, you're not], who had closer ties to the Saudis than most other presidents). America actively armed and supported Iraq in its war with Iran. During the 20th century, America deposed numerous democratic governments to install more friendly dictactors who then abused human rights and were tyrants. Etc, etc, etc.

The fact that you think those simple historical facts are "anti-American propaganda" is hilarious. You are sorely incapable of the intelligent thought required for this debate.

[Mental]

This thread is amusing me tbh, and Sapphire/CaptainObvious have posted most of my thoughts already, so I won't bother reitterating them.

But why do you want USA to look strong and fearworthy? If the USA is truly this bastion of Liberty, Freedom, etc. then why do you want USA to look ultra strong? I believe wanting people/making people fear you is a form of oppression.

Obama doesn't make USA look either strong nor weak. That's not what this is about. My impression of Obama is that he's trying his best (perhaps even too hard) to basically please everyone and improve USA's diplomatic relations with other countries.

[2D]

Hooolyyyyy shit.


Are you for real kid? Seriously? Or are you just fucking with us.

Well, to answer the main question in the thread name, no.

Why? Read all points above.



Cheers.

[Rainstorm]

i do not like Obama. i believe that he isn't a very good president and maybe one of the worst we've ever had.

Yes. He IS the worst president ever. I can't believe we've forgotten all the other president that have been in scandals. or Bill Clinton who basically let Obama remain free. This man is the worst.


he lied during his campaign and i believe most people only voted him becuz he was colored but now the novelty has worn off i think that he's been exposed for the man he is. i do not like how socialist he is either and his health care plans suck and are infringing on traditional american freedom.

What president HASN'T lied in his campaign. And he's been in office for only a year. He has plenty of time

The man he is? A great and intelligent man who can actually spell correctly, unlike some people here.

American freedom? America needs a change now. The world is changing, and America is still trying to stand by principils that clearly aren't working.


USA is not like canada, Britian and europe which r closer to socialism and communism then we are, where ppl can hardly get there treatment and end up dying in ER cuz theres not enough doctors to help them. he is also against the right to bear arms and i bet if he had more power he would ban guns which is not ryt. hes not even a real natural born American citizen cuz he doesnt have da proper birth certificate 2 proove he was born in hawaii USA.

The US should be more like Canada and Britian. Just saying.

I'm against the right to bear arms as well. People don't need Ak-47's or shotguns under their mattress. And Obama wouldn't have power to ban the guns either way. He would have to remove the Supreme Court from power, as that proposal would be unconstitutional. Thus ratifying this argument useless.

Uh, yes. He has been proven to have been born in Hawaii, and even if he hadn't, who the fuck cares. The fact that only natural born americans can run is the most fucking idiotic rule we have. Unless their terrorists.


i believe he woz born in Kenya, so he isnt even elegiable to president of america anyway.

Now what im really asking is to differentiate from the other obama debate on here, do you Obama is a threat to the image of the greatest country in the world?

i certainly do. not only is he a threat TO our country, but he makes us look weak to the rest of the world. he is doing what terrorists tell him to do and bowing down to the saudi leader who is a terrorist simpathizor and saudi arabia is a tyranical country where women have no rights n you can get killed if u speak out against the government thats my 2 cents. i dont intend 2 offend ne1 that likes obama. im just speaking my own view. so srry if i offended anyone.

He was born in Kenya. Yes, because this has been proven false many times. Get some info before you debate.

America is by far not the greatest country. We (and I include myself much to my hatred) are conceited, overpompus, somewhat tyrants, a bit imperialistic, and many other things that we shouldn't be. American needs a good punch in the face and a rewire, because obviously we have let out "power" go to our heads.

Sending 30,000 more troops into a warzone makes up weak? And the Saudi Arabia portion is just plain garbage, in my opinion.

[woody92]

Yes. He IS the worst president ever. I can't believe we've forgotten all the other president that have been in scandals. or Bill Clinton who basically let Obama remain free. This man is the worst..
You have to give him a chance! You cant say he's "the worst". He needs more than 1 year to show what he's capable of!

What president HASN'T lied in his campaign. And he's been in office for only a year. He has plenty of time .

Loads of them have your right!

America is by far now the greatest country. We (and I include myself much to my hatred) are conceited, overpompus, somewhat tyrants, a bit imperialistic, and many other things that we shouldn't be. American needs a good punch in the face and a rewire, because obviously we have let out "power" go to our heads.

You shouldnt say that America is the "greatest" because every country is great in their own way.

- UK greatest to be polite!
- Spain Great sun and heat!
- Irak, Pakistan, .... great at blowing people up (JOKE!!; NO HARM MENT!)

[Mental]

You shouldnt say that America is the "greatest" because every country is great in their own way.

- UK greatest to be polite!
- Spain Great sun and heat!
- Irak, Pakistan, .... great at blowing people up (JOKE!!; NO HARM MENT!)
I'm sure that last joke comment about Iraq and Pakistan will have fueled Rambo here's cause (as in the OP). :rolleyes:

[Sapphire]

You people apparently aren't aware that you can be the President as long as at least one of your parents is an American citizen at the time of your birth...I've said it before but people are still talking as if it isn't true.

[The Batman]

They also forget the fact that John McCain wasn't born in America...

[Rainstorm]

You have to give him a chance! You cant say he's "the worst". He needs more than 1 year to show what he's capable of!



You shouldnt say that America is the "greatest" because every country is great in their own way.

- UK greatest to be polite!
- Spain Great sun and heat!
- Irak, Pakistan, .... great at blowing people up (JOKE!!; NO HARM MENT!)


For the first part, I was actually being sarcastic. But, this is the internet.

The second part I made I typo. I meant to type not.

[woody92]

For the first part, I was actually being sarcastic. But, this is the internet.

The second part I made I typo. I meant to type not.

OK apologies! :) No hard feeling on my part!

[CaptainObvious]

You people apparently aren't aware that you can be the President as long as at least one of your parents is an American citizen at the time of your birth...I've said it before but people are still talking as if it isn't true.

It's slightly more complicated than that but it doesn't matter because Obama's citizenship comes from jus soli, or his being born upon American soil.

They also forget the fact that John McCain wasn't born in America...

Indeed, the question of whether or not McCain was eligible is still open. "Natural born" citizen is a vague term used nowhere else in the Constitution and its meaning has therefore changed with the state of applicable law and courts' views on it. There are arguments that any laws made to confer citizenship on children born of US parents abroad outside of US territory - since McCain was born in Colon, not the Panama Canal Zone as often listed - were after the fact and therefore McCain was - and thus is - not a natural born citizen.

Frankly, I think the whole thing is a massive waste of time. It should be gotten rid of. Citizenship should be citizenship with regard to all rights and responsibilities, until forfeited for some other reason than the nationality of one's birth.

[Sapphire]

It's slightly more complicated than that but it doesn't matter because Obama's citizenship comes from jus soli, or his being born upon American soil.In this case, it is irrelevant. But just felt this might be of interest. The birth of a child abroad to U.S. citizen parent(s) should be reported as soon as possible to the nearest American consular office for the purpose of establishing an official record of the child's claim to U.S. citizenship at birth.
-- Source (http://travel.state.gov/law/info/overseas/overseas_705.html)

[obiwan94]

eeer...I was going to make a point by point rebuttal...but for one something happened and half my post was erased and looking at what other people wrote...States Rights is about as ignorant as our last president so not worth arguing with someone that thinks "our children is learning" that Austria and Australia are the same place, and cant tell the difference between APEC and OPEC.

States Rights...how much do you travel? I travel a lot with my parents and I'm no longer embarrassed to be an American.

Also you mentioned the socialist European countries...I'd just like to point out that those countries have lower infant mortality rates than we do and usually rank higher in quality of life measures. So its ok for us to let sick infants die in the streets because we dont feel like helping a poor mother out with healthcare? Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than we do! Of all the developed countries we usually fall last in HDI and health.

We also dont have the largest economy (if including the EU as one country) or the highest per capita income...so what exactly makes the US that much better than anywhere else? We can bully someone with out military?

Yeah I like the US but too many americans are too arrogant

[tripolar]

Because of your "statements" you sir is why so many people hate America.

When did he bow down to terrorists, and whats with the Saudi Arabia thing. I know exactly what you want Obama to do. Start a war in Saudi Arabia, then execute the leader. Why?

Another thing about the "bowing down to terrorists" then tell me why Obama is sending 30,000 extra troops to Afghanistan. If he was "bowing down" he would pull out all the troops right away and let terrorists run free.

The whole first paragraph that you wrote has nothing to do at all with tarnishing America's image. Do you think the world will look down to us for gun control, or health care no. The only people that give a damn about that are people that live here.

I am not a Obama lover, nor did I vote for him to win the election. no offense also your spelling is fucking horrendous.

[quartermaster]

Dear God! Did you create this thread to embarrass the people who actually have valid arguments against the Obama presidency? Or individuals who actually support States' Rights?

Here is a little tip for you, the Bush administration was an abomination, and anyone who truly was for States' Rights could never even legitimize his presidency. I suggest you get off of the Neo-conservative bandwagon and actually do a little research, my friend.

[Perseus]

Holy crap, man. Lrn2englsh.

Anyway, I would just like to CNN is not liberal. CNN is the only good news source around. Fox News is full of a bunch of bablign idiots *cough* Glenn Beck *cough*.
Obama is not tarnishing the image of the USA around the world, to answer your question.

You sound like my mom... with your ridiculous claims and such, OP.

[The Joker]

i do not like Obama. i believe that he isn't a very good president and maybe one of the worst we've ever had. he lied during his campaign and i believe most people only voted him becuz he was colored but now the novelty has worn off i think that he's been exposed for the man he is. i do not like how socialist he is either and his health care plans suck and are infringing on traditional american freedom. USA is not like canada, Britian and europe which r closer to socialism and communism then we are, where ppl can hardly get there treatment and end up dying in ER cuz theres not enough doctors to help them. he is also against the right to bear arms and i bet if he had more power he would ban guns which is not ryt. hes not even a real natural born American citizen cuz he doesnt have da proper birth certificate 2 proove he was born in hawaii USA. i believe he woz born in Kenya, so he isnt even elegiable to president of america anyway.

Now what im really asking is to differentiate from the other obama debate on here, do you Obama is a threat to the image of the greatest country in the world?

i certainly do. not only is he a threat TO our country, but he makes us look weak to the rest of the world. he is doing what terrorists tell him to do and bowing down to the saudi leader who is a terrorist simpathizor and saudi arabia is a tyranical country where women have no rights n you can get killed if u speak out against the government thats my 2 cents. i dont intend 2 offend ne1 that likes obama. im just speaking my own view. so srry if i offended anyone.

Why does his health care plan suck? Because he would help millions of people?

No, we actually survive more often than you do, because we actually GET THE FUCKING CARE. He's a fucking US citizen.

Bush wasnt that gr8 but he is x1000000 better then obama

when 9/11 happened bush had the guts to go after bin laden and the terrorists who attacked us for no reason, and thats why we are in afghanistan and went to iraq. God bless USA and its allys.

I bet obama wouldnt have. obama makes us look like pussies to the rest of the world. at least bush made us look strong.

Just because he doesn't want to fight for stupid reasons doesn't make him a pussy. The Republicans have trained terrorists, and have been allies with them. Every day America is in Iraq, the more terrorists get pissed off and want to attack you.

Ronald reagan and abraham lincoln were republicans and some of the best presidents USA ever had. most democratic presidents neva did ne good for the country. democrats used to support slavery, but republicans stopped it. its funny how every1 forgets that

his color was the primary reason he was elected. srry but it is. did u see after he was inauguarted CNN was all like "first african american elected"???



No, your first point there is total bullshit.

Also, they probably said that because he WAS the first black president, after their only being white presidents for over a 100 years.

[Antares]

This is THE most entertaining debate in a LONG time.
From these statements, I don't even think you are really American.
In fact, according to my mod powers, you aren't actually American.

i do not like Obama. i believe that he isn't a very good president and maybe one of the worst we've ever had. he lied during his campaign and i believe most people only voted him becuz he was colored but now the novelty has worn off i think that he's been exposed for the man he is. i do not like how socialist he is either and his health care plans suck and are infringing on traditional american freedom. USA is not like canada, Britian and europe which r closer to socialism and communism then we are, where ppl can hardly get there treatment and end up dying in ER cuz theres not enough doctors to help them. he is also against the right to bear arms and i bet if he had more power he would ban guns which is not ryt. hes not even a real natural born American citizen cuz he doesnt have da proper birth certificate 2 proove he was born in hawaii USA. i believe he woz born in Kenya, so he isnt even elegiable to president of america anyway.First off, you are attacking a Yale graduate when you can barely write. That, in my opinion makes your 'opinion' completely null and void.
But I will still respond to some of them.
First, he is a citizen of the United States. If you ever took a government class you would know that anyone that is born to an American citizen is automatically an American citizen. So that s*** can be taken back to your arse.

Obama is NOT a threat to the image of the USA around the world. In fact, polls show that he is probably one of the most well liked presidents that the nation has seen in a LONG time abroad. Probably because he has a nice personality and is overall a nice person. So I am not sure where you are getting this from but it is completely erroneous and you need to do some fact checking (factcheck.org).

i certainly do. not only is he a threat TO our country, but he makes us look weak to the rest of the world. he is doing what terrorists tell him to do and bowing down to the saudi leader who is a terrorist simpathizor and saudi arabia is a tyranical country where women have no rights n you can get killed if u speak out against the government thats my 2 cents. i dont intend 2 offend ne1 that likes obama. im just speaking my own view. so srry if i offended anyone.Completely ignorant. He's doing what the terrorists are telling him to do??? How exactly are they telling? What exactly has he done? Provide some evidence to back that completely...out of this world claim up.

Furthermore, women's oppression in Saudi Arabia is probably the same that white people were doing in Europe probably about...14th century. Not much different. Religion and social standards have been nearly the same in their culture. Not our problem. Not his problem either.


Anyways, umm yea...I don't think this is funny at all. You are making some really bogus unsupported statements. YOU sir is what "tarnishes the image of the USA around the world". It is quite obvious in this thread really.

[Whisper]

okay instead of everyone ganging up on him. Why don't you give him a minute to respond. Its a debate not a flogging.

[quartermaster]

okay instead of everyone ganging up on him. Why don't you give him a minute to respond. Its a debate not a flogging.

No, this is not a debate, nor should this be considered a debate; the OP is simply spewing talking points and has no actual idea what he is talking about.

[CaptainObvious]

In fact, according to my mod powers, you aren't actually American.

Gogo ModCP! IP Checks FTW lol.

[Whisper]

No, this is not a debate, nor should this be considered a debate; the OP is simply spewing talking points and has no actual idea what he is talking about.

Its in the debate forum.
It obeys the rules set fourth by it.
It's a debate. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. Just as mine is mine, and his is his.

I helped created this forum and whither you agree with his opinion or not, it will be handled in a respectful manner.

Its probly a joke anyway.

I fuckin hate this site

[StateRights]

yes i am from U.S.A. but currently studying abroad via xchange program at a bording school for 6 months for those who felt the need to check my internet protacal i did not see any reason for this to be pointed out as it is irelevent, the reason it is in my location is bcause im from W.V. so do not assume i'm a foreign 'troll' [as you call it] who joined this site to ravel your nerves as i didnt think their would be as much resistence. as people have demanded that i spell and type correctly, i will try for the sake of pleasing the whiners here.

ok seeing as most of you have pretty much repeated saphire and captain obvious posts already ill just say it all here. Yes i'll agree to the fact obama may 'look better' than bush on the world stage as far as allies and other industrilized countries go, but i still feel he is weak kneed as far as the middle east goes. he is not keeping anyone at arms length but he is asocciating himself with terrorists and other opressive people and making america look weak and stupid

we need a man who is not so weakwilled and not bow down to people who hate the U.S.A. is what im saying in short. im sorry all you obama lovers but he really is not that great. we need ronald reagan back but sadly hes dead. obama is just a FDR and JFK wannabe.

[Sapphire]

he is not keeping anyone at arms length but he is asocciating himself with terrorists and other opressive people and making america look weak and stupidI fail to see how any American President could associate themselves more with oppressive rulers than Bush did...

we need a man who is not so weakwilled and not bow down to people who hate the U.S.A. is what im saying in short. im sorry all you obama lovers but he really is not that great. we need ronald reagan back but sadly hes dead. obama is just a FDR and JFK wannabe.How is he weak willed? How is he bowing down to those who hate America?
All I can see is someone who is trying to improve the state of the country he is President of and of the world he is a part of and already doing a better job of it than his predecessor.

And would you care to address the points I raised in my other post while you are replying to this post?

[2D]

I fuckin hate this site

Then, good sir, leave.

[Sage]

Yes i'll agree to the fact obama may 'look better' than bush on the world stage as far as allies and other industrilized countries go, but i still feel he is weak kneed as far as the middle east goes.

Re: is Obama tarnishing the image of the USA around the world?

The only image I see Obama tarnishing is your neoconservative wet dream.

/thread

[Ryhanna]

I'm not American but I think Obama has done a fairly good job.

YOU try running America for a few days! Actually... no, I take that back, I don't trust you.

[Antares]

ok seeing as most of you have pretty much repeated saphire and captain obvious posts already ill just say it all here. Yes i'll agree to the fact obama may 'look better' than bush on the world stage as far as allies and other industrilized countries go, but i still feel he is weak kneed as far as the middle east goes. he is not keeping anyone at arms length but he is asocciating himself with terrorists and other opressive people and making america look weak and stupid

we need a man who is not so weakwilled and not bow down to people who hate the U.S.A. is what im saying in short. im sorry all you obama lovers but he really is not that great. we need ronald reagan back but sadly hes dead. obama is just a FDR and JFK wannabe.

We all simply agree to disagree with you.
Not that we are attacking you as a uniform party, it is just that no one agrees with your neoconservative views as they have been called (to Kodie too).

Honestly, he has never negatively associated himself with any middle east terrorists. In fact, hes killing them.
So please support that claim because I fail to see how you can believe that when it is so far from the truth. So please prove it.

For the "weakwilled" part...how is escalating the War on Terror (or Afghanistan, whatever it's offical name is) weakwilled? How is increasing troop presence and basically surging troops in to Afganistan weakwilled and making America look weak and stupid abroad??
Simple: it isn't.

And I think that a President that "bows down"...or in actuality try to repair ties with the US from countries that hate us is good! It prevents future conflicts and can create allies which is what is needed in today's world of impending nuclear war.

Honestly, Ronald Reagan was hardly a great president.
I wouldn't want him back.
I'll stick with Obama. He has hardly been there for a year and hasn't done many changes to the country yet.

[Sage]

This "bowing down" is a little something us non-warmongerers like to call "diplomacy".

[Rebecca L Vaughn]

Bush was not a bad president. He had tons of things to deal with such as Bill Clinton's mess, 9/11, etc. The president is an extremely popular person, so if Bush did 99 things right, and one thing wrong, the world brings that one flaw out. I would say that Obama is not doing as well as Bush was, because he lied about plenty of things.

[Sage]

Obama is not doing as well as Bush was, because he lied about plenty of things.

List examples or moot point.

[CaptainObvious]

Bush was not a bad president.

Yes, he most certainly was. He ballooned the national debt primarily through unnecessary tax cuts for the rich, which has put the country in a massively problematic budget position. He got involved in an unnecessary war in Iraq that significantly exacerbated the problem. Even if you think the war was necessary, his administration's handling of it was terrible. Also, he presided over a significant reduction of civil liberties, and his administration was one of the most structurally mismanaged in modern history. I would go on... but the list is long and I've made my point.

He had tons of things to deal with such as Bill Clinton's mess

You know, you posted about "Bill Clinton's mess" before and I asked you what that was. You never answered. So back it up, what mess did Clinton leave that was so hard to deal with?

The president is an extremely popular person, so if Bush did 99 things right, and one thing wrong, the world brings that one flaw out.

Except he didn't do 1 thing wrong and 99 right. I can only think of a few decisions he made - increasing aid to Africa, for example - that were right.

I would say that Obama is not doing as well as Bush was, because he lied about plenty of things.

Let's hear those "plenty of things", then.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Correct me if Im wrong but didnt clinton perside over one of the largest economic growths in the history of America?

[Antares]

Correct me if Im wrong but didnt clinton perside over one of the largest economic growths in the history of America?

You're pretty much correct.

I would like you to tell me what exactly Clinton's mess is.

Furthermore, Obama or whoever elected in the 2008 elections probably have had the hardest job ever since FDR.
The vast amount of general problems is just a bit overwhelming.
All of the problems Bush had during his presidency were never resolved so they automatically get tagged on to the new person's list of tasks which basically automatically makes their job harder than Bush's. Bush is nothing compared to what Obama has in store for himself.

So you argument that Bush had a harder job than Obama is just plain untrue.

[Kahn]

The image of America has been tarnished for far too long. It started with Vietnam and eventually people like Nixon started popping up in politics. What happened to the good people like F.D.R? Or Teddy? Oh god where are the Teddy's of the 21st century?

In Vietnam as many as 300 soldiers were died per week during Nixon's 1st term. Do you realize how many people that is? His term began in.. 1969? The war lasted until 1975. Approximately 93,000 soldiers died on the American side if that was a steady death ratio. Around one million of North Vietnamese died during that war. The American people did not want that war. We had no reason to be in that war. None. Well. Actually they thought communism was spreading to and fro and because we're Americans COMMUNISTS MUST BE STOPPED!

Nixon also tried to re-elect himself.. Watergate if anyone knows the term. I'm not even going there on what it did to our image.

After that we had... well a pretty decent list of presidents. Clinton gave us one of the greatest economic surges of American History, George H.W Bush.. Honestly I don't care. Ronald Reagan was there for the destruction of the Berlin Wall. Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon for what he had done.. Which honestly I can't believe.

Then came him. The man who ruined the United States of America. George W. Bush. Never had I've read or seen a more terrible and corrupt politician rather than tyrants and dictators. He took the thriving American economy, turned it upside down and shook it until all of it's lunch money fell out. He not only was in office during 9/11 he didn't take action during it! He was in an elementary school reading a book to the children when he was told what had happened. He sat there in thought. Became a little flushed. Continued reading.

Not saying we had it coming but an attack on our country was long overdue. Anyways. Bush Sr. continued business partnership with the men who ordered the attack and visited them shortly after that sad day.

I can't say Obama is helping with the image for I believe I am too young to realize to an extent of what he is doing in office right now. Rather I believe this quote comes into play in honor of 9/11.

"This day will live in infamy"

Thank god for you Franklin D. Roosevelt. If we had, say Nixon or Bush in office during your time we would never had won the war and would be plunged into a Facist-Nazi world. Oh and thank you Vladimir Lenin for starting a Soviet Revolution and making your successor as corrupt or even more corrupt than Adolf Hitler. Because without you we also would've lost. Thank you Joseph. WE LOVEZ YOU!

If we would have stuck with the basic views of Colonial America. Keep Government productive and stable, do not form political parties (George Washington) and remain neutral we would still be in the limelight of good attention. Instead we are getting bombed by terrorists. Isn't it funny how say one person can change the whole course of a country?

My view on the topic. Hell no. It was already tarnished.

http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/43440/2862940640101688296S600x600Q85.jpg Thank you Mr. Stalin for saving us from Facism with the disease of Communism!

i do not like Obama. i believe that he isn't a very good president and maybe one of the worst we've ever had. he lied during his campaign and i believe most people only voted him becuz he was colored but now the novelty has worn off i think that he's been exposed for the man he is. i do not like how socialist he is either and his health care plans suck and are infringing on traditional american freedom. USA is not like canada, Britian and europe which r closer to socialism and communism then we are, where ppl can hardly get there treatment and end up dying in ER cuz theres not enough doctors to help them. he is also against the right to bear arms and i bet if he had more power he would ban guns which is not ryt. hes not even a real natural born American citizen cuz he doesnt have da proper birth certificate 2 proove he was born in hawaii USA. i believe he woz born in Kenya, so he isnt even elegiable to president of america anyway.

Now what im really asking is to differentiate from the other obama debate on here, do you Obama is a threat to the image of the greatest country in the world?

i certainly do. not only is he a threat TO our country, but he makes us look weak to the rest of the world. he is doing what terrorists tell him to do and bowing down to the saudi leader who is a terrorist simpathizor and saudi arabia is a tyranical country where women have no rights n you can get killed if u speak out against the government thats my 2 cents. i dont intend 2 offend ne1 that likes obama. im just speaking my own view. so srry if i offended anyone.

Ok... What the hell? If you can't spell why do you even bother discussing politics? Sorry thats just my2 cents

He is not a threat to our country at all. He won the fucking Nobel Peace Prize ON HIS FIRST YEAR OF HIS TERM! AND YOU THINK HE'S BOWING DOWN TO TERRORISTS? He is not as socialist as you think. Oh and the right to bear arms? Yeah do we really need to defend ourselves with a gun if they are just stealing maybe our car? We can just call the police and have them track the license plate number. You remember we have a Police force right? Their not the S.S. Their not going to take your precious gun away. Don't worry.

HE WAS NOT BORN IN KENYA! He is from fucking Hawaii, father abandon him, mother moved to wherever the hell she wanted because she needed a husband. And because Saudi Arabia gives no rights to women it is automatically tyrannical? What if they gave rights to women and no rights to minorities? Would that be tyrannical as well?

How is he a threat to other countries? He is trying to resolve conflicts not start them like say... The president before him. The great and all powerful George W. Bush! The same man that as he was on his way to his inauguration people egged his limo and protested him being president elect. Oh yeah he was the best president and one of the only presidents to win the Nobel Peace Prize is the worst. The president that is trying to diplomatic solutions to conflicts over seas is worse. But you know lets send another 100,000 troops over to the mountains of fucking Afghanistan and while we're at it we might as well nuke Iran and Pakistan. Right Bush? Thats the best solution.

You sir, are uneducated blind and stupid. Have a good day.

[Sugaree]

No, the image of this country had already been tarnished when Clinton had affairs. I know that there are probably many other examples, but I can't be bothered to look them up on the current time/moment. Clinton, in my opinion (which to you StateRights, means nothing obviously), made the image of the country very tarnished. Being the PotUS, you'd think twice about running around. Granted, Clinton DID lead one of the largest economic growths in some 30 years. I'll give him that.

George W. Bush was NOT a better President than Obama. I wouldn't want anyone else in the White House now, not even Bush OR Obama. The fact of the matter is that major news networks like MSNBC, CNN, and Faux Noise made SUCH a big deal about it all. Eventually this lead to people revolting at his plans for being "socialist". You know, you should be happy that you live in a country that has free speech. I'm sure if you were in China that the government would execute you :rolleyes:

Barack may not be our best president, but you need to give the man credit for having some balls to take the job. You may not like him, but give the man a beer for all the shit tossed at him day in and day out, because he deserves one. Bush was no better, yet you'll take him any day. Bush made us get into a war and an endless game of hide and seek. He was hated by many other nations, including our own. He made inflation skyrocket, the economy collapse, gave tax cuts to the rich, and made all Southern Christians look bad. The reason Obama is liked by other countries is because he's being admired for taking things head on, which is what he SHOULD be doing. On the point that he wasn't born in the country has been proven false. His father is FROM Kenya, his mother from Hawaii. Just because his father is Kenyan, does NOT mean Obama was born in Kenya. If he can't prove that he was born in Hawaii, then he needs to before people get too suspicious and start to dig.

Backing up my point, I'd like to bring up the healthcare situation. I honestly don't find the current plan as helping to fix the system. Seeing as how the race in Massachusetts is settled, it appears now that the Republicans have enough to overturn the bill. Which, in my opinion, is great. Now we can start with a clean slate and try to come to a general understanding. However, I highly doubt that you can say that we are short on doctors and THEN say you can go to your doctor any time you wanted. Really useless "point" there chap.

You also asked for the opinion of foreigners (you know, the people that AREN'T in the United States? Because there ARE other countries.) on the image of America. Carole and others are right in saying that - from a foreigner standpoint - things look better. Obama IS trying to redo the wrongs of the Bush administration, but that won't be very easy. You also can not say that your opinion "weighs more" than that of a foreigner, of which, you asked a foreigners opinion.

Reagan was a good president. But saying that they were good JUST because they were Republicans is an utterly wrong view. Ever hear of the Berlin Wall? Yeah, Reagan gave that speech near Potsdamer Platz to "tear down the wall". Two years later, in 1989, it DID come down. Reagan also helped the failing economy in the 80's.

Lincoln was also a good president, but you are once again saying he was great just because he was Republican. Lincoln was the one who abolished slavery, but he didn't do it of his own accord. In actuality, he did it to end all the fighting and killing. Also, your "valid" point about how liberals supported slavery is wrong. Read a history book for once. The liberals wanted slavery abolished, while the conservatives wanted it to remain. This leads to the Civil War, etc. etc. Once again, read a history book and pay attention.

[Ryhanna]

I really don't think any of should really critisise the presidents. It's a hard job running a country, you have a go at fixing everything. It can be really hard. Don't quote me and say stuff like "I'd change everything for better whether people like it or not" - people would riot. You really have to keep everything in order, whislt also making the changes, I think Obama is being critised too much.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

but i still feel he is weak kneed as far as the middle east goes. he is not keeping anyone at arms length but he is asocciating himself with terrorists and other opressive people and making america look weak and stupid

we need a man who is not so weakwilled and not bow down to people who hate the U.S.A. is what im saying in short. im sorry all you obama lovers but he really is not that great. we need ronald reagan back but sadly hes dead. obama is just a FDR and JFK wannabe.

Right, so surging troop numbers by 30 000 is weak willed? and trying to help palestinians have a country to call home is "bowing down to people who hate the US"? it appears that i as an australian, which hears much less about US news can tell that Obama is applying force to the terrorists and being diplomatic with the palestinians and isrealis.

As to obama asocianting him self with oppresisve governments, Bush was doing the same thing. Would you like your gas to be $4 a litre, because it would be if america and saudi arabia werent friends

And to answer your question, Obama has made americas image 20x better then Bushm by simply being diplomatic, not a warmongerer.

[Perseus]

I would like to say the old Republican party is the now Democratic party, for those who don't know... *cough* OP *cough*

[quartermaster]

Correct me if Im wrong but didnt clinton perside over one of the largest economic growths in the history of America?

Clinton presided over one of the largest artificial growths in the history of America, fueled by artificially low interest rates and inflationary policies. Such policies created a boom in the 1990s that led to massive malinvestment and ultimately the inevitable business cycle that resulted in a rather steep recession at the end of his presidency, known as the "Dot Com Crisis."

Indeed, some economic issues we have today, directly result from our two artificial booms (1990s and mid-2000s).

I would like to say the old Republican party is the now Democratic party, for those who don't know... *cough* OP *cough*

That is a bit of a misrepresentation; the modern Republican and Democratic parties are both decedents of the Old Republican Party. Lest we forget that the old Democratic Party was for the most part destroyed due to the Civil War, as such, the new Democratic Party was an amalgam of both parties. That amalgam retained many pre-Civil War ideas and more conservative ideas (vis-à-vis, Bourbon Democrats, my personal favorites), which over time gave way to more populist and later, progressive ideas (Bryant and Wilson, respectively) thus abandoning much of the Jeffersonian-Republican appeal.

Over time, moreover, the Republican Party of Lincoln had a split, where the big business liberal New Englanders went to the Democratic Party, and the Big business Southerners and Westerners stayed with the Republican Party. That gradual change caused the move of many conservative Democrats (Kennedy played a large part in this) to the Republican Party, who identified with the more conservative Republicans. Despite such shifts, both parties are controlled and descendent from the big business Republican legacy of Lincoln, Grant and McKinley, not of the Democratic Party of Jackson, Calhoun and to an extent, even Cleveland.


Lincoln was also a good president, but you are once again saying he was great just because he was Republican. Lincoln was the one who abolished slavery, but he didn't do it of his own accord. In actuality, he did it to end all the fighting and killing. Also, your "valid" point about how liberals supported slavery is wrong. Read a history book for once. The liberals wanted slavery abolished, while the conservatives wanted it to remain. This leads to the Civil War, etc. etc. Once again, read a history book and pay attention.

A bit simplistic, Lincoln's reasons for ending slavery may have been to end the war, but it was certainly not because he was a humanitarian. There were a myriad of reasons for ending slavery in the South: to reel them in and have a peaceful settlement, to ensure that Britain and France did not join in, or at the very least, recognize the CSA as an actual country, to destroy the economy of southern plantation owners by creating an incident where slaves would begin to flee en mass, the list goes on. His reasons for ending slavery in the South were not, most certainly, because he was some peace loving humanitarian.

[Sage]

I really don't think any of should really critisise the presidents.

Of course people should, it's what keeps them in check. I just think that, if you're going to make an argument against the president, you should do so with valid arguments. As one poster mentioned earlier, the OP is really not doing a good service at all for the people who do raise legitimate points of concern regarding Obama.

[Kahn]

I think we figured out who won in this thread... The people on Obama's side.

[The Joker]

I'd still like to see if he can come up with a decent rebuttal.

[boy.on.laptop]

First of all as a New Zealander living in a nation with universal health care, to those of you who have read all about people dying in ER etc. is a lie. The system is not perfect but I can assure you from the statistics as well as most on personal experiences meeting doctors who had worked in both systems, universal healthcare is important. As a christian I believe ever life is priceless and as much as possible should be done to save it.

As for the crap about lowering America's prestige, look at any country outside Poland and you will see that the over wellmingly majority even conservatives perfer Obama to Bush about 2 to 1.

I admit Obama is far from perfect but Bush truly was the worst president, I truly believe at heart he is a good man and did what he thought was best for America(no different to Obama in his love for his country I believe) but he started two wars, lead America into its worse reccession since WW2 and lowered the income of America's poor while given its most wealthy more and more money.