Why are there not many 'pure' Christians nowadays?...

[Mental]

I mean a Christian that consistently obeys the Bible. Yup, that's right. The good parts and the bad parts.

From what I see, most modern Christians pick and choose which parts of the Bible and God/Jesus's teaching they like or agree with, but conveniently ignore the bad parts?

I see many Christians that are tolerant of homosexuality, and some are even homosexuals or bisexuals themselves. Now in my opinion that's a good thing, but the Bible sure as hell doesn't think so:

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable"

No.. wait.. you should be killing homosexuals instead!

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.

And so much for tolerance of other religions/atheists:

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him

I'm touched.

Yes, these are all lovely. legimate quotes from the Bible which Christians follow. Can anyone, particularly Christians please explain why these parts are ignored..

This isn't aimed at offending anyone, I'm not a raging hardcore atheist. But it's the truth. This is what the Bible says. Old Testament or New Testament. They're both part of the Official Bible, so neither should be ignored.

[Antares]

I completely and utterly agree.

From what I see, most modern Christians pick and choose which parts of the Bible and God/Jesus's teaching they like or agree with, but conveniently ignore the bad parts?If it is in the bible, and god says obey it, then why exactly are people disobeying it yet still calling themselves hard-core christians.

Which leads me to believe that religion is stupid.
Sorry charlie.
If you say that god is your savior wahtever whatever whatever, then I advise you to go kill some homos, stop having sex with random people, stop breaking the law, and finally stop going out for a night of sinning, partying, and drinking, and ending up in church the next day thinking like you know whats going on when you really dont...

[2D]

Why? Two words.

Old Testament.

It's largely accepted as out of date and needs not be followed. Don't ask me why, that's just how it is I suppose.

Now, to deal with the Romans scripture seeing as it's in the New Testament.

Nowhere does it say they should be put to death. Merely that they brought this upon themselves and that is their punishment.


I do not agree however that some shouldn't be ignored. It is obvious that many rules and whatnot from the Old Testament have no place in today's culture.

Cheers.


EDIT: I do not claim to be a hardcore Christian, I'm rather the opposite, in fact.


EDIT AGAIN: Another good reason, society does not allow such acts as killing people....sooooo.

[Sugaree]

I think it's because the society we live in calls for more tolerance for others. The 'pure' Christians are either dead or don't leave their homes. I mean really, there really are no hardcore Christians in my opinion. The Bible, to most Christians I've had this conversation with, is not a way to live your life or to read every day but rather for a type of guidance. Now, I'm not saying to those who DO read the Bible to kill the next "fag" (and you should see why I put that in quotations) they see or meet. What I AM saying is that you should look up a few verses maybe for inspiration or for enlightenment.

I still like to think that there are strong Christians who will follow whatever the Bible says. But they aren't as much "strong" as they are "extremist". Tolerance on the more extremist Christians is near impossible. This past November, I went to Kansas City along with my youth group for a religious youth conference, also known as NCYC. It was a great experience, I met new people, but it really opened my eyes to some of the more lenient and extremist Christian sides.

The extremist Christians that I met were VERY much against any idea that involved anything the Bible did not state. They carried Bibles with them, crosses around their necks, just about anything they could carry religious they did. This makes me a bit disappointed by my religion because it gives us a bad name.

Now the more lenient Christians were very open minded and sensible people. They weren't always accepting of new ideas, but they thought them over given the proof and made a good deliberation on it. These were the types of people I can get along with.

All in all, I'd like to think that there are still many different types of Christians out there. You have your extremist, lenient, and even the "in the middle" types. We have the same beliefs, but it's to the extent to which we wish to carry them out.

Why? Two words.

Old Testament.

It's largely accepted as out of date and needs not be followed. Don't ask me why, that's just how it is I suppose.

But really, you can't just take the Old Testament out of the equation entirely. The Old Testament is pretty much the earliest accounts of the Church. The only reason it is seen as "out of date" is because of the obvious, it's old. But so is the New Testament. The Bible isn't something to be followed fluently, but rather conservatively in my view. You can't live your life based on what is written in stone, or in this case, black and white.

[Mental]

I know some of it from the Old Testament. But the fact is, Christians consider the Old Testament as part of their Holy Book, therefore they should remain consistant to it. I know Christians that believe in the story of Creation (Old Testament, Genesis) and Noah's Ark, which is also an Old Testament story.

I'm pretty sure there was a lot more of lovely stuff like this in the New Testament, oh.. like this. Gayz dun go 2 heven:

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God

I do not agree however that some shouldn't be ignored. It is obvious that many rules and whatnot from the Old Testament have no place in today's culture.
Then why is there and not completely left out of the Bible, and why do Christians accept the Old Testament at all?

And surely God > Society, so they're already being unChristian by conforming to the norms of society?

It seems like a horrible cake with sweet icing. Modern Christians will eat the icing (good parts), but disregard the rest of the cake (bad parts).

I think it's because the society we live in calls for more tolerance for others. The 'pure' Christians are either dead or don't leave their homes. I mean really, there really are no hardcore Christians in my opinion. The Bible, to most Christians I've had this conversation with, is not a way to live your life or to read every day but rather for a type of guidance. Now, I'm not saying to those who DO read the Bible to kill the next "fag" (and you should see why I put that in quotations) they see or meet. What I AM saying is that you should look up a few verses maybe for inspiration or for enlightenment.

I still like to think that there are strong Christians who will follow whatever the Bible says. But they aren't as much "strong" as they are "extremist". Tolerance on the more extremist Christians is near impossible. This past November, I went to Kansas City along with my youth group for a religious youth conference, also known as NCYC. It was a great experience, I met new people, but it really opened my eyes to some of the more lenient and extremist Christian sides.

The extremist Christians that I met were VERY much against any idea that involved anything the Bible did not state. They carried Bibles with them, crosses around their necks, just about anything they could carry religious they did. This makes me a bit disappointed by my religion because it gives us a bad name.

Now the more lenient Christians were very open minded and sensible people. They weren't always accepting of new ideas, but they thought them over given the proof and made a good deliberation on it. These were the types of people I can get along with.

All in all, I'd like to think that there are still many different types of Christians out there. You have your extremist, lenient, and even the "in the middle" types. We have the same beliefs, but it's to the extent to which we wish to carry them out.
No offence, but the whole different divisions of Christianity (like other religions) sounds just like another form of cherry picking to me.
However, I'd probably consider them extremist Christians the most consistant of all. People condemn those nutjobs at Westboro Baptist Church for being "extreme" but the funny thing is, they're right about a lot of things, although I'm pretty sure they've contradicted themselves by being judgemental at peoples funerals. But you can only do your best when led by a largely contradictory piece of literature.

[Sugaree]

No offence, but the whole different divisions of Christianity (like other religions) sounds just like another form of cherry picking to me.
However, I'd probably consider them extremist Christians the most consistant of all. People condemn those nutjobs at Westboro Baptist Church for being "extreme" but the funny thing is, they're right about a lot of things, although I'm pretty sure they've contradicted themselves by being judgemental at peoples funerals. But you can only do your best when led by a largely contradictory piece of literature.

Divisions of Christianity don't seem like another form of cherry picking. People do that themselves as to what they will follow or not. Besides, Westboro Baptist isn't really a division of Christianity as it is a Baptist Division. True, they follow the same laws that the older Christians used to, but they are of a completely different religion. However, I can see your point being valid of their extremism views and actions. They can be right in some cases, but in others they will contradict themselves (as most other religions do) because they aren't really taking in the full affect of what their actions will cause.

[Mental]

Divisions of Christianity don't seem like another form of cherry picking. People do that themselves as to what they will follow or not. Besides, Westboro Baptist isn't really a division of Christianity as it is a Baptist Division. True, they follow the same laws that the older Christians used to, but they are of a completely different religion. However, I can see your point being valid of their extremism views and actions. They can be right in some cases, but in others they will contradict themselves (as most other religions do) because they aren't really taking in the full affect of what their actions will cause.
But tell me why certain Christians only choose to follow certain parts of the Bible..

If I'm not wrong fornication (sex before/out of marriage) is a mortal sin, just like murder is, according to the Bible. So why disregard this? I even know of "Christians" that have done this. They should believe they're going to Hell unless they repent, right?

[quartermaster]

I mean a Christian that consistently obeys the Bible. Yup, that's right. The good parts and the bad parts.

From what I see, most modern Christians pick and choose which parts of the Bible and God/Jesus's teaching they like or agree with, but conveniently ignore the bad parts?

I see many Christians that are tolerant of homosexuality, and some are even homosexuals or bisexuals themselves. Now in my opinion that's a good thing, but the Bible sure as hell doesn't think so:



No.. wait.. you should be killing homosexuals instead!





And so much for tolerance of other religions/atheists:







I'm touched.

Yes, these are all lovely. legimate quotes from the Bible which Christians follow. Can anyone, particularly Christians please explain why these parts are ignored..

This isn't aimed at offending anyone, I'm not a raging hardcore atheist. But it's the truth. This is what the Bible says. Old Testament or New Testament. They're both part of the Official Bible, so neither should be ignored.

Make no mistake, I agree that Christians pick and choose biblical passages to meet their own ends all the time. However, your issue seems to stem more from a general misunderstanding of the Bible, than any issue of Christians not following the Bible.

The Old Testament is defined by the laws and rituals set by God for humans to follow in order to stay "righteous" and "earn" their passage into heaven. Of course, because of the sin of man and man's fallibility, man could never "earn" passage into heaven. Despite all the laws and rituals that man had, to keep him “righteous,” he still fell short of “God’s grace.”

As such, Jesus was sent in order to die for man's sins etc., you know the story. With the death of Jesus, man was under what is known as a new covenant, a new relationship with God, so the rituals and laws of the old covenant were no longer needed. Man did not need to "earn" passage into heaven, as they could never do so in the first place, but instead, they needed to accept Christ and repent of their sins. That is why Christians do not follow those laws anymore; you must understand all biblical passages in context, before you make certain assumptions, most certainly, before you begin to “tell” Christians what they should be doing.

One would never judge a character, or at least, logically and empirically judge a character in any story without understanding context. One would never, logically, judge anything without knowing the full story. You accuse Christians of “picking and choosing” (which, without a doubt, many do), yet you would engage in the fallacy of Cherry Picking yourself.


If I'm not wrong fornication (sex before/out of marriage) is a mortal sin, just like murder is, according to the Bible. So why disregard this? I even know of "Christians" that have done this. They should believe they're going to Hell unless they repent, right?

That would be correct, as per the Bible, sex before marriage is a sin and Christians should repent for such a sin. Many Christians do not follow this, because for aforementioned reasons, man is fallible; God's commands still stands for Christians (as per the Christian milieu, it does for all humans), but the laws to remain "righteous" and clean, in the sense of obtaining passage into heaven, are no longer needed.

[Sugaree]

But tell me why certain Christians only choose to follow certain parts of the Bible..

If I'm not wrong fornication (sex before/out of marriage) is a mortal sin, just like murder is, according to the Bible. So why disregard this? I even know of "Christians" that have done this. They should believe they're going to Hell unless they repent, right?

As I've said before, it's common for people to pick and choose what they believe. Most Christians these days don't see fornication before marriage as a bad thing, only because they don't really consider it first. It's all about what your religion tells you to believe and what you WANT to believe. If Christianity were to say that dogs were evil, there would be people who would blindly follow and there would be people who would disregard it.

Same goes for the Bible. There are parts people ignore and others that they don't. Why they do it is for reasons known to them. I think it's safe to say that they might ignore certain parts of the Bible because it contradicts what they believe.

[Mental]

One would never judge a character, or at least, logically and empirically judge a character in any story without understanding context. One would never, logically, judge anything without knowing the full story. You accuse Christians of “picking and choosing” (which, without a doubt, many do), yet you would engage in the fallacy of Cherry Picking yourself.
Oh.. I do know there's nice bits of the Bible, that are more prevelent in the New Testament, like "He who has not ever sinned cast the first stone" and "Love thy neighbour" and a few others.

But even so, there's still parts of the New Testament that condemn groups, particularly homosexuals.

As I've said before, it's common for people to pick and choose what they believe. Most Christians these days don't see fornication before marriage as a bad thing, only because they don't really consider it first. It's all about what your religion tells you to believe and what you WANT to believe. If Christianity were to say that dogs were evil, there would be people who would blindly follow and there would be people who would disregard it.

Same goes for the Bible. There are parts people ignore and others that they don't. Why they do it is for reasons known to them. I think it's safe to say that they might ignore certain parts of the Bible because it contradicts what they believe.
I know that, but I fail to understand why they accept such literature as their life, yet ignore a big chunk of it, many of which is assumingly what God (somebody that we dedicated our lives too and treat with utmost respect as he is our creator) wants: "God detests homoesexuals" - "Modern Christian: It's OK to be gay"

It's like if I wrote 50 rules for my household, and my kids followed 35 of them, yet conveniently disregarded the rest and still claiming to fully respect me or that it was completely OK because they followed most my rules. I'm not great at making analogies, but you see my point.

[quartermaster]

Oh.. I do know there's nice bits of the Bible, that are more prevelent in the New Testament, like "He who has not ever sinned cast the first stone" and "Love thy neighbour".

But even so, there's still parts of the New Testament that condemn groups, particularly homosexuals.

Yes...and? A point would be nice...

Further, the Old Testament does not condemn homosexuals, it condemns those that commit the act of homosexual sex. The Bible classifies homosexual sex as an "abomination" onto God, not necessarily the person who has the urges. As per the New Covenant, those who have committed homosexual "sin," as the Bible would define it, are not outside of God's mercy and forgiveness.

Again, a misunderstanding of the Bible is where your folly in reasoning lies. Granted, I am a bit perplexed as to your point in this post.

[Mental]

OK.. so it codemns the "act" then, but even so that's still homophobic. I mean, what about gay Christians who have sexual relationships.. which is within their right, but the Bible forbids it, so they have gone against the Bible and the Christian belief system, and if I'm not mistaken homosexuality is also a mortal sin unless you repent the hell out of yourself.

And my point is - it's contradictory. It's full of God hates this, God likes that, God hates homosexuality, but God loves all his children! Do not cast a stone unless you never sinned, but stone that child who disobeys his father or that woman who is not a virgin at marriage.

[Camazotz]

Although many Christians today decide to ignore most of the Old Testament and choose "good" passages in the New Testament, there are obviously some controversial verses in the New Testament as well.

Jesus says:
Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Jesus is encouraging the killing of atheists, and anyone that questions the Christian faith and anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Matthew 5:17-19
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

These verses are telling Christians to not ignore the Old Testament, and accept each word taught as the truth and a way of life.

[Antares]

Westboro Baptist Church is completely bonkers in today's society...they are completely right following the "Good Book" though...I never realized that until now so I strangely have new-found respect for them

[Mental]

Westboro Baptist Church is completely bonkers in today's society...they are completely right following the "Good Book" though...I never realized that until now so I strangely have new-found respect for them
It's funny that many people just dismiss them as fringe lunatics, including other Christians, but after watching a few of their interviews on YouTube and stuff, it's not like they've got any of the scriptures wrong. They quote and follow the scriptures quite accurately.

They believe in thanking God for every of his "righteous" judgement, good or bad. Most people just thank God for the good in the world. Shirley Phelps Roper's interpretation of "love thy neighbour" is not what people would think, but it's to "warn" people that their "sins" (fornication, homosexuality, etc) are leading them to Hell, and that's why they go protesting all over the place.

I don't agree with anything the WBC says or believes in, but I gotta give 'em the +1 for consistency.

[deadpie]

All i can say is this:

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs034.snc3/12169_189242412483_622637483_3459924_7802482_n.jpg

[ThatDude93]

As a Christian, I believe that Christ came to make a new covenant with humanity. The Jews were no longer "the chosen people". Many old testament laws are now considered criminal, as rightly so. They are not morally right. It was a different time. You must remember that the Bible is the word of God, but it is also in the hands of humans. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. I am sure there have been many misinterpretations over the last thousands of years anyway. The 10 commandments are really the main laws from the old testament, and they still stand as law to all people.

Christ came to fulfill the prophesies of certain old testament prophets, such as Isaiah. That is what he is speaking of when he says and that he is here to fulfill what the prophets said, not to mark out and replace.

Feel free to ask questions, just respect my beliefs, as I respect yours.

[INFERNO]

OK.. so it codemns the "act" then, but even so that's still homophobic. I mean, what about gay Christians who have sexual relationships.. which is within their right, but the Bible forbids it, so they have gone against the Bible and the Christian belief system, and if I'm not mistaken homosexuality is also a mortal sin unless you repent the hell out of yourself.

True, but I'm failing to see what your point is other than showing the obvious that it's homophobic.

As for homosexual Christians and the bible, the first thing to decide is whether the passages pertaining to homosexuality are to be taken literally or metaphorically. If it's to be taken literally, then although the bible would forbid it, one has to decide how lenient they'll be in their beliefs. One could acknowledge what the bible says but not believe in it.


And my point is - it's contradictory. It's full of God hates this, God likes that, God hates homosexuality, but God loves all his children! Do not cast a stone unless you never sinned, but stone that child who disobeys his father or that woman who is not a virgin at marriage.

I think this is one main reason why you see Christians disbelieving some parts of the bible: it's contradictory to their set of beliefs. When you have a belief system that says A is good, A is bad, B is good, B is bad and so forth, if you're going to believe in it, either you're going to have to choose some parts to ignore in order for it to make some sense or you're going to have to believe it in its entirety and somehow figure out a way for it to all make sense. It's easier to just cut out those parts that don't make as much sense than it is to accept it all and try to reason around it.

When one tosses society's views into the mix, one now has to decide whether or not to stick with their view and in doing so oppose society's or to conform. People may still believe what the Bible says but they may interpret it in a non-literal form which is less opposing to society.

Chances are though, Christians are going to either interpret something non-literally or ignore it, such as passages that command you to kill someone for something they've done. Chances are, your average Christian won't go on a killing spree killing non-believers. Instead, they may condemn the non-believers to hell. It isn't following the bible to the letter but the general idea is still there.

Why would a Christian ignore passages that command certain people to be killed? It'd be amoral, unethical, illegal and may go against some of their own beliefs (i.e. all life is valuable, don't kill other humans, etc...).

I mean a Christian that consistently obeys the Bible. Yup, that's right. The good parts and the bad parts.

From what I see, most modern Christians pick and choose which parts of the Bible and God/Jesus's teaching they like or agree with, but conveniently ignore the bad parts?

When you claim to be a Christian that obeys all parts of it, do you go out on murderous rampages killing non-believers, young children, neighbours, fortunetellers and psychics, killing people who disrespect their parents, killing people who don't listen to priests (which can include fellow Christians) and so forth? If the answer is no, then you don't obey all parts of the bible and you too pick and choose.

[ThatDude93]

as far as I am concerned if you say you obey all parts of the Bible, your either lying, or rightfully locked up in jail...

Times have changed and so has society's views on right/wrong

[2D]

Way to totally disregard almost all of Sean's (quartermaster) post.

[Jean Poutine]

killing people who disrespect their parents

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF that should be happening already.

[Sage]

There are few pure Christians for the exact same reason there are few pure conservatives or democrats or Muslims or anarchists or anything. If you just point out that someone who is part of an ideology doesn't subscribe to it and nothing else, you're ignorant.

[The Joker]

I like to form my beliefs on many things, but mainly on Christianity.

[Techno Monster]

I agree so much with the OP I'm about to spontaneously combust.
Really, it seems that Christians seem to drag out some of the parts of the bible, like how homosexuality goes against god, how masturbation is a sin... etc.
But they completely ignore when the bible states clearly not to discriminate against others.
It's pretty stupid if you ask me.

[ThatDude93]

Way to totally disregard almost all of Sean's (quartermaster) post.

I was stating my view. I read Sean's post...I regarded what it said, I just didn't quote or reference it.

[2D]

I was stating my view. I read Sean's post...I regarded what it said, I just didn't quote or reference it.

Not directed at you, I meant Mental.

[ThatDude93]

oh, ok cool...anyway..we need to get back on topic

[Mental]

There are few pure Christians for the exact same reason there are few pure conservatives or democrats or Muslims or anarchists or anything. If you just point out that someone who is part of an ideology doesn't subscribe to it and nothing else, you're ignorant.
Religion =/= Politics.. one is your beliefs on how the Government and country should run, so it's not bad if you're not a pure Conservative or pure Liberal, you're not exactly contradicting your belief system as your beliefs are mainly individual, so making that comparison was irrelevant.

But in religion, you choose to accept a structured belief system, which includes a deity and in the case of Christianity a Holy Book aka the Bible. Most Modern Christians have cherry picked the Bible to hell to suit their lifestyles.

Fornication, homosexuality, etc etc. are clearly condemned in the Bible (Old and New Testemants), and many Modern Christians have disregarded these parts conveniently under the guise of "Oh well God loves and forgives us anyway!".

Also, to those who say that the Act is wrong and not the Person. Many Christian homosexuals DO act on their sexuality and sleep with other men/other women, and have thus committed a Mortal Sin - just like if they had murdered somebody, thus is unforgiveble. Many homosexuals Christians also believe in same-sex marriage and civil unions, but clearly under Christianity, the union of marriage is reserved for heterosexual couples of one man and one woman.

I'm sure there's Muslims that disregard or contradict some of their Quran, but I don't know much about it to make an informed comment on it.

Not directed at you, I meant Mental.
I didn't disregard what he said. If you think I did, I'm sure my bit above might explain my point better.

Times have changed and so has society's views on right/wrong
That's wonderful, but the Bible and Christianity has remained static with their beliefs. I don't see any amendments to the Bible regarding all these issues. I just see Christians (even some Christian officials such as churches) conveniently and quietly becoming more liberal with many things that society deems acceptable today, despite the fact the Bible hasn't changed.

+ INFERNO, I'll get to your points later, either by a new post or editing this one, I don't have time at the moment to discuss your points, as you left me a lot. Mk. Just in case I get accused of disregarding you.

[Sage]

But in religion, you choose to accept a structured belief system, which includes a deity


But in religion, you choose to accept a structured belief system


you choose to accept a structured belief system


accept a structured belief system


a structured belief system

I love the hypocrisy of an atheist telling other people how they should act. :rolleyes:

/thread

[Mental]

I love the hypocrisy of an atheist telling other people how they should act. :rolleyes:

/thread
1. How I love assumptions. :rolleyes: I'm not atheist, I'm agnostic. There's a difference.

2. I don't tell people how they should act. The Bible does, and many Modern Christians undeniably disregard a lot of their Holy Book, which they have dedicated their lives to. End of.

Your sarcastic post hasn't really.. made any point, though, to be honest. But anyways:

True, but I'm failing to see what your point is other than showing the obvious that it's homophobic.

As for homosexual Christians and the bible, the first thing to decide is whether the passages pertaining to homosexuality are to be taken literally or metaphorically. If it's to be taken literally, then although the bible would forbid it, one has to decide how lenient they'll be in their beliefs. One could acknowledge what the bible says but not believe in it
So what does "metaphorically" taking it mean then, when it has clearly said numerous times that you should not be/act on homosexuality?

I think this is one main reason why you see Christians disbelieving some parts of the bible: it's contradictory to their set of beliefs. When you have a belief system that says A is good, A is bad, B is good, B is bad and so forth, if you're going to believe in it, either you're going to have to choose some parts to ignore in order for it to make some sense or you're going to have to believe it in its entirety and somehow figure out a way for it to all make sense. It's easier to just cut out those parts that don't make as much sense than it is to accept it all and try to reason around it.
Fair do's.

When one tosses society's views into the mix, one now has to decide whether or not to stick with their view and in doing so oppose society's or to conform. People may still believe what the Bible says but they may interpret it in a non-literal form which is less opposing to society.

Chances are though, Christians are going to either interpret something non-literally or ignore it, such as passages that command you to kill someone for something they've done. Chances are, your average Christian won't go on a killing spree killing non-believers. Instead, they may condemn the non-believers to hell. It isn't following the bible to the letter but the general idea is still there.

Why would a Christian ignore passages that command certain people to be killed? It'd be amoral, unethical, illegal and may go against some of their own beliefs (i.e. all life is valuable, don't kill other humans, etc...).
The Bible sure as hell needs some amendments then, doesn't it?
And the point about Christians going killing such people and how they condemn the non-believers, etc. to hell. They don't even do that. I don't know any Christian that does. They just say "Oh it's OK to be gay/have sex as a teenager/don't believe in God/follow another religion/etc"

When you claim to be a Christian that obeys all parts of it, do you go out on murderous rampages killing non-believers, young children, neighbours, fortunetellers and psychics, killing people who disrespect their parents, killing people who don't listen to priests (which can include fellow Christians) and so forth? If the answer is no, then you don't obey all parts of the bible and you too pick and choose.
So why even accept such a religion and it's Holy Book that instructs or encourage such things?

Not even the most extreme bits such as killing your daughter for not being a virgin at marriage, but the clearly obvious stuff that the Bible forbids like homosexuality and fornication - many modern Christians just completely ignore it.

I don't understand the mentality that people who do such things and yet still even want to be a Christian. The Bible clearly condemns it, and many Christian churches do as well.

Now I'm sure I'm going to be told somewhere along the line that the Bible can't/shouldn't be amended to fit modern society's views because it is "God's Word". Well if it really is God's Word, then why disregard it or cherry pick at it?

If I were God and wrote/aided someone to write the Bible and all these rules and such, and my "followers" decided to follow the parts they liked, and ignore the parts they didn't like, I'd be pretty pissed.

[quartermaster]

Although many Christians today decide to ignore most of the Old Testament and choose "good" passages in the New Testament, there are obviously some controversial verses in the New Testament as well.

Jesus says:

Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Jesus is encouraging the killing of atheists, and anyone that questions the Christian faith and anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Incorrect, nice way to take this completely out of context, next time why don't you tell the posters that this is from a parable told by Jesus. The Parable of the Pounds is a parable about a servant who was not only lazy but openly defied his king, thus his king called for the servant to be struck down. In a similar way, Jesus is not telling anyone to strike anyone down; he is saying that any man who works against God will become an enemy of God, just as the servant had become an enemy of the king. Ultimately, as per the Bible, enemies of God are judged by God and struck down. This parable warns people against openly working to defy God as well as being lazy, or those who sit on the side of reaction; nowhere does Jesus tell any man to strike another man, as judgment is left up to God.

So, tell me, how is this "controversial?" It goes hand in hand with the Christian milieu. At least, insofar as you do not take it out of context as if it were a standalone statement by Jesus, and then erroneously attempt to interpret it, as you have done. A little research will go a long way!


Matthew 5:17-19
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

These verses are telling Christians to not ignore the Old Testament, and accept each word taught as the truth and a way of life.

The Old Testament is never to be ignored, as, per Jesus, it is the word of God. It is still Holy Scripture, but it is no longer binding, as Jesus was to fulfill the prophecies and the law. Do not forget, Jesus challenged the laws, scribes, traditions and above all, interpretations of the Pharisees; Jesus was to fulfill the law, but he was clarifying that the law and the Old Testament were still the word of God.

To be sure, Christians are not to ignore the Old Testament, so you are correct in that regard, but its laws and traditions created for man to "earn" heaven, were no longer binding. Otherwise, Jesus' entire life, all of his teachings and ultimately, his inevitable death, would have been for naught.

Again, under any other circumstance you individuals would read the book in its entirety, understand context and not quote random passages from statements and of all things, parables! You would never do that under any other circumstance! So, why then do you all proceed to do that with the Bible, assume you know what is being said, while not so much as having taken the time to tie in other passages from the Bible that explain or compliment. Above all of that, many of you proceed to make assertive statements about a particular piece, without any backing; if you were asking for clarification, I am more positive that that it can be accommodated, but you do not ask nor care to ask.

You all somehow have the “facts” a priori, even without the wisdom and probity of context; if I had the power you guys apparently have now to interpret the meaning of a single standalone text, why, I would have had to work much less in my High School AP writing courses, that is to be sure.

Where is the academic integrity? Right, because the Bible is mythology about some mystical “Sky Sugar Daddy,” it does not merit it.

Next!

As for the original poster, I have answered his questions quite sufficiently, which is an indication to me that he did not truly want clarification, but had already made up his mind before he even created this thread; as such, it would be a waste of time to continue to squabble with him.

[Perseus]

Also, to those who say that the Act is wrong and not the Person. Many Christian homosexuals DO act on their sexuality and sleep with other men/other women, and have thus committed a Mortal Sin - just like if they had murdered somebody, thus is unforgiveble. Many homosexuals Christians also believe in same-sex marriage and civil unions, but clearly under Christianity, the union of marriage is reserved for heterosexual couples of one man and one woman.

Actually, Mental, if you murder someone, you can still get into heaven by praying for forgiveness, so I shall assume it is the same for homosexuals.

Yeah, I know, makes no sense if a murderer gets in Heaven, but it's the truth.

[ThatDude93]

That's wonderful, but the Bible and Christianity has remained static with their beliefs. I don't see any amendments to the Bible regarding all these issues. I just see Christians (even some Christian officials such as churches) conveniently and quietly becoming more liberal with many things that society deems acceptable today, despite the fact the Bible hasn't changed.

I do know that in the Bible, Jesus says that the old laws(of the Old Testament) no longer apply. If they do, he taught them in his sermons. And yeah, some churches have changed their stances on Biblical matters....I relate that to the whole "denomination factor"...which I hate....

[Evermore]

It's difficult to obey every command in the bible but you should try if you're a true christian. Also those verses can be taken out of context which is exactly what is happening here. This is old testament laws that were switched for the new testament rules later.

[ThatDude93]

Right...well except for the commandments....which Jesus still upheld and preached that they were still law.

And they can be hard to follow...I can say I am a true Christian and I struggle...we are all human...we screw up sometimes

[The Joker]

I agree so much with the OP I'm about to spontaneously combust.
Really, it seems that Christians seem to drag out some of the parts of the bible, like how homosexuality goes against god, how masturbation is a sin... etc.
But they completely ignore when the bible states clearly not to discriminate against others.
It's pretty stupid if you ask me.

Masturbation isn't a sin, it said Onan spilled his seed on the ground. During that time, they were trying to increase the population, so the thought was that Onan didn't ejaculate inside the women, so he was struck down.

[ThatDude93]

as far as I know..masturbation is only a sin if your lusting for someone when you do it....I have done bible studies over that and talked with people

[Rebecca L Vaughn]

The BIBLE says that you are not supposed to hate them, but forgive them. I am the same way, I know the Bible, but sometimes I just don't want it.

[Evermore]

Masturbation isn't a sin, it said Onan spilled his seed on the ground. During that time, they were trying to increase the population, so the thought was that Onan didn't ejaculate inside the women, so he was struck down.

It's cause he was told by God to bear the woman a child he made love to her but spilled his seed. That's the only thing remotely close to masturbation. Now looking on someone with lust in your heart is a sin. Usually guys do that when they are masturbating.

Right...well except for the commandments....which Jesus still upheld and preached that they were still law.
And they can be hard to follow...I can say I am a true Christian and I struggle...we are all human...we screw up sometimes

That's what I was saying you didn't have to negative rep me. You are supposed to love and forgive everyone. Which Jesus states i to replace the ten commandments. Love your neighbor as yourself. AND Honor your god with all your heart, your soul, and mind. Now if you are a full fledged christian you shouldn't want to do anything on the ten commandments. Now if you break one. Or you break all of them. Repeatedly. God will still love you and will forgive you if you repent.

[Severus Snape]

Half of it was written for a specific group of people, not Christians. The audience is different. I attribute the rest to the prevailing attitude of the materialist culture in which we live. This attitude renders humanity incompatible with the message of Jesus.

[Dive to Survive]

I mean a Christian that consistently obeys the Bible. Yup, that's right. The good parts and the bad parts.

From what I see, most modern Christians pick and choose which parts of the Bible and God/Jesus's teaching they like or agree with, but conveniently ignore the bad parts?

I see many Christians that are tolerant of homosexuality, and some are even homosexuals or bisexuals themselves. Now in my opinion that's a good thing, but the Bible sure as hell doesn't think so:



No.. wait.. you should be killing homosexuals instead!





And so much for tolerance of other religions/atheists:







I'm touched.

Yes, these are all lovely. legimate quotes from the Bible which Christians follow. Can anyone, particularly Christians please explain why these parts are ignored..

This isn't aimed at offending anyone, I'm not a raging hardcore atheist. But it's the truth. This is what the Bible says. Old Testament or New Testament. They're both part of the Official Bible, so neither should be ignored.

Everyone wants to live their own way.
Homo/bi-sexuality isnt a religion.
Why quote the Bible if you dont care?

[Sage]

Why quote the Bible if you dont care?

It's called researching the other side of the debate.

[Dive to Survive]

Why do you go after every little thing I say?

[Sage]

Why do you go after every little thing I say?

Because this is Ramblings of the Wise, and I debate people when I feel they're wrong about an issue. I just happen to think you're wrong about everything. It'd seem we have completely contradictory world views.

Also, you've not been around here long to see past debates I've had in ROTW, but taking a single post and breaking it down into numerous quotation boxes is something I do fairly often. It just makes a post simpler to read in my opinion and gets to the point.

[Dive to Survive]

Because this is Ramblings of the Wise, and I debate people when I feel they're wrong about an issue. I just happen to think you're wrong about everything. It'd seem we have completely contradictory world views.

Also, you've not been around here long to see past debates I've had in ROTW, but taking a single post and breaking it down into numerous quotation boxes is something I do fairly often. It just makes a post simpler to read in my opinion and gets to the point.

I'm glad that we have totally opposite views. It's nice to have someone to argue with just to see what others think. Ya know? If not than whatever. ;)
If its easier to read than thats cool:D

[scuba steve]

because religion is a pointless lie, that decends from the Dark ages fear of what happens to you after you die, and now people are starting to relise that it is infact a big pile of balls. granted it has inspired some nice things like Christmas and the Sistinth chapel but that's about it.
call me narrow minded and i call you a damn bible basher

[Dive to Survive]

I wont call you anything you and I are free to have our own beleifs and I'll leave it like that :)

[Sage]

because religion is a pointless lie, that decends from the Dark ages fear of what happens to you after you die, and now people are starting to relise that it is infact a big pile of balls. granted it has inspired some nice things like Christmas and the Sistinth chapel but that's about it.
call me narrow minded and i call you a damn bible basher

Religion dates back long before the dark ages. Before and during the time of some of the world's oldest civilizations, including the Egyptians and Chinese, we were already seeing many different belief systems arise, including Paganism, Druidism, Satanism, and Shamanism, as well as various indigenous religions.

[Dive to Survive]

Religion dates back long before the dark ages. Before and during the time of some of the world's oldest civilizations, including the Egyptians and Chinese, we were already seeing many different belief systems arise, including Paganism, Druidism, Satanism, and Shamanism, as well as various indigenous religions.

Because I'm not perfect I'd like to ask you a question without you insulting me. And I'd like to learn from you ;) What is druidism and shamanism. I know what a shaman is and Ive heard of a Druid. But what are the "Religions"? :)

[Rutherford The Brave]

Ill tell you why there aren't any pure Christians. People like to have sex, cause trouble and they get angry at each other.

[Sage]

I know what a shaman is and Ive heard of a Druid. But what are the "Religions"? :)

Shamanism and druidism. To get any more specific, I'd be getting into the names of a very large number of very small community or village-based groups. The similarity of beliefs in the widespread groups is what makes them a 'religion'. There is no name for it, however, and so shamanism and druidism are named after the practices.

[Dive to Survive]

Well, what do they beleive? What are their practices? :)

[Sage]

Well, what do they beleive? What are their practices? :)

*shrug* I don't know. I'm neither a shaman nor a druid. Go do some research.

[Dive to Survive]

Alright

[belfordrocks]

The beliefs of 'pure' Christians would be considered so extremist in modern society they would undoubtly be socially ostracised if they were to practise as such. It's more of a compromise for people who would want to follow the a Bible but not end up like Ned Flanders- "I've done everything the bible says- even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff."

[Peace God]

short answer: modern science

[scuba steve]

Religion dates back long before the dark ages. Before and during the time of some of the world's oldest civilizations, including the Egyptians and Chinese, we were already seeing many different belief systems arise, including Paganism, Druidism, Satanism, and Shamanism, as well as various indigenous religions.

fine then, when people started believing in more believable lies like christianity, not worship the sun

[Sage]

fine then, when people started believing in more believable lies like christianity, not worship the sun

>implying zombie jew worship makes more sense than anything
>lololololol