Legalizing illegal immigrants(in America)

[Perseus]

Well, some people believe that legalizing the over eleven million unauthorized immigrants in America would help the economy because they won't be on a low profile, they will be paid more, they will buy more, they will pursue higher education, etc.

Do you believe that all the illegal immigrants in America should just become legal?

I say nay because even if does boost the economy, you're kicking all the people who did the citizenship test and all that in the balls, and it makes that pointless because they've done it before(legalizing illegals), so if they do it again, they might do it more and more.

So what are your thoughts? If you're wondering how I know this, there was an article I did a current event in my AP Human Geography class and I got the article last Thursday(off of CNN), so it's new a theory that has been brought up.

[OnlyByTheNight.]

Not technology related. Moved to ROTW.

[Perseus]

Not technology related. Moved to ROTW.

Wait, where did I post this? I thoguht I posted it in ROTW.. weird.
Ah cap, I wasn't thinking when I posted it there.. whoops, my bad.

[Mental]

Well I don't live in America, and I'm not directly from there (I have heritage and family there), but I don't think legalising illegal immigrants anywhere is ever a good idea.

I feel sorry for them on humanitarian and moral grounds, and it would be awesome to help them, but if you legalise them, you don't conquer the root of the problem, instead you just encourage more of them, and too much immigration can cause problems to the economic infrastructure. It's like shaving hair.. you can cut them, but they'll grow back even hairier and thicker!

It's the inconvenient truth. You really can't save everyone.

[Zephyr]

I have to agree with Mental.

From the humanitarian perspective, yes, it's a good idea.

But if illegal immigration were to be legalized, people would flood to the border to pursue jobs and education. Right now, it's hard for even legal citizens to find jobs. Colleges are filled to the brim with people going back to school so that they can actually get jobs... it's so bad at my college that in some classes, as many as 20 people that arn't even on the waist list have come to class hoping to get in. People have to park several blocks away from the school at times too, it's so packed. Hell, even my dad, who's 47, is taking courses right now to make himself more valuable to the company that he works for. I know that all of the community colleges here in Oregon have been having this issue of extremely high enrollment. At my college, it's more than tripled over the last 2 years.

In a different time when we arn't having the issue as I've just described above, I wouldn't have a problem with immigration as long as it's controlled.

You can only take so many onto the life raft before it begins to sink.

[quartermaster]

I would argue that all of the current illegal immigrants here within the United States should be given citizenship, as they would become tax payers and could legitimize their operations economically. Further, I believe that the resources we would and currently do use on deporting “illegals” is better spent elsewhere.

Despite such beliefs, however, I also believe that the borders should be secured and our government(s) should make great efforts to stop “illegals” from "flooding" across the border, but, on that same token, I believe immigration regulations should be greatly relaxed. The citizenship process here within the United States is far too difficult and I believe it should be streamlined. If we truly want people to enter our country "legally," we must secure the border and incentivize legal immigration; as long as immigrating across the border illegally is easier than actually becoming a citizen, we cannot expect illegal immigration to cease.

I also oppose illegal immigration for reasons of resource, soundly because of the welfare state; having illegal immigrants flood across the border is an injustice to the taxpayer. I would have no problems with open-door immigration if we did not support a welfare state, where the taxpayers must support the "free riders," vis-à-vis, illegal immigrants. Forcing taxpayers to pay for individuals who do not pay into the system is unacceptable.

[Perseus]

I would argue that all of the current illegal immigrants here within the United States should be given citizenship, as they would become tax payers and could legitimize their operations economically. Further, I believe that the resources we would and currently do use on deporting “illegals” is better spent elsewhere.

That's pretty much what the experts said. They believe it can raise the GDP by 1.6 trillion dollars within the next ten years, so I mean, economically, it is good, if what they want to work works, but otherwise it isn't as great as they think.

[cherry_boi]

legalizing illegal immigrants would cause so many problems...now and in the future...there would be so many equal rights lawsuits if america ever denied future immigrants access, and yea 11 million is alot of people that could then go on welfare or unemployment...just ya...waaaaaaaay too many potential problems with that

[IowaBoy]

The United States is already overpopulated, why in the hell overpopulate it more.

[Mental]

The United States is already overpopulated, why in the hell overpopulate it more.
Eh, hardly overpopulated. There's a lot of people.. but there's plenty of space. Lol. China is roughly the same size or slightly smaller than the United States, and has well over a billion people in it. USA has about 300-350m I believe.
Go figure.

[IowaBoy]

Just not talking about space; food sources, employment, housing, etc...

legalizing illegal immigrants
would cause so many problems...now and in the future...there would be so many equal rights lawsuits if america ever denied future immigrants access, and yea 11 million is alot of people that could then go on welfare or unemployment...just ya...waaaaaaaay too many potential problems with that

agreed

[quartermaster]

Just not talking about space; food sources, employment, housing, etc...

Food sources, non issue; how do you suppose they are eating here already? Scrounging for nuts and berries in the wilderness?

Employment , non issue; tell me, what jobs would they "take up" that they haven't already? We will find that once they become naturalized citizens they will be forced to get a skill, legitimize or go back, because it is much harder to obtain a post, asking for minimum wage, than it is when you are working for under that price. In many ways, making them naturalized citizens could help with employment, as it would eliminate, on balance, a large pool of lowered paid workers, as they have to be paid minimum wage.

Of course, this is all theoretic, but when a group has a monopoly on price, another group that cannot compete with that, be it due to law, union, or what have you, is going to inevitably lose. You eliminate that price monopoly, then all workers are on equal footing, as it were; that is, at least, from the start.

Housing, non issue; I'm not sure if you noticed, but the United States is in a bit of a housing crisis where we have too many homes, specifically in California, where many illegal immigrants live. There are more than enough homes in the United States, or more poignantly, in California, to facilitate the current population of illegal immigrants.

The only foreseeable issue I can see is reliance on unemployment and welfare, though that is unusual for immigrants. However, if they do add as much money to the economy as the experts claim, I imagine this is a non issue as well.

[2D]

What I don't get is why they're still coming here. I want to get out of the country as soon as possible. I'd prefer to be somewhere else when everything officially goes down the shitter. And it will.

[StateRights]

What I don't get is why they're still coming here. I want to get out of the country as soon as possible. I'd prefer to be somewhere else when everything officially goes down the shitter. And it will.
and go where? if u think america has it bad, u should see africa or europe and canada which r slowly becoming socialist paradices where u dont have as much freedom of speech nd the government controls ur life.

anyway i dont think there should be any immigrants except legal ones who have skills or american family. illegal aliens r bad 4 our economy and they take american jobs. and not just tomato picking, but they take jobs in construction too. there ARE americans who both want and need these jobs.

also illegal aliens drive without insurance and kill americans every year, nd many join drug gangs.

they bring crime and trash our economy. whats good about that???

no i do not believe in rewarding criminals, so illegal aliens should not be legalized. just sent back to there own countries.

Liberal mythology would tell u dat they pay taxes nd only pick tomoatoes in fields and all r just here 4 a better life. thats stupid. if they just wanted a better life they would have got proper visas.

they r here to trash america. y do u think illegal mexicans fly there flag everywhere and burn american flags??? theyre just like the 911 terrorists imo

[Rutherford The Brave]

and go where? if u think america has it bad, u should see africa or europe and canada which r slowly becoming socialist paradices where u dont have as much freedom of speech nd the government controls ur life.

anyway i dont think there should be any immigrants except legal ones who have skills or american family. illegal aliens r bad 4 our economy and they take american jobs. and not just tomato picking, but they take jobs in construction too. there ARE americans who both want and need these jobs.

also illegal aliens drive without insurance and kill americans every year, nd many join drug gangs.

they bring crime and trash our economy. whats good about that???

no i do not believe in rewarding criminals, so illegal aliens should not be legalized. just sent back to there own countries.

Liberal mythology would tell u dat they pay taxes nd only pick tomoatoes in fields and all r just here 4 a better life. thats stupid. if they just wanted a better life they would have got proper visas.

they r here to trash america. y do u think illegal mexicans fly there flag everywhere and burn american flags??? theyre just like the 911 terrorists imo

If all illegal immigrants where to be sent home, then you'd be sent home. Wherever your home maybe, your not American per se your European American I bet, your ancestors are not rooted in America. Just because you came here first gives you the right to decide whether or not someone can or cannot be American? America is all about hardwork and making a living for yourself. To be honest, those who are getting in here illegally are doing a hell of alot better than you in that respect.

[StateRights]

If all illegal immigrants where to be sent home, then you'd be sent home. Wherever your home maybe, your not American per se your European American I bet, your ancestors are not rooted in America. Just because you came here first gives you the right to decide whether or not someone can or cannot be American? America is all about hardwork and making a living for yourself. To be honest, those who are getting in here illegally are doing a hell of alot better than you in that respect.
my ancestors immigrated in legally in the 19th century to america from britain and other parts of europe actually. none of my ancestors ever hurt a single indian which was wrong.

that argument got old years ago. america wasnt even a proper country with laws until europeans came as the indians did not rly care much if anyone lived there. i guess they gave an inch and we took a mile. but thats all in the past

america wouldnt be strong unless it was for the white settlers that built it up and became americans

[Rutherford The Brave]

my ancestors immigrated in legally in the 19th century to america from britain and other parts of europe actually. none of my ancestors ever hurt a single indian which was wrong.

that argument got old years ago. america wasnt even a proper country with laws until europeans came as the indians did not rly care much if anyone lived there. i guess they gave an inch and we took a mile. but thats all in the past

america wouldnt be strong unless it was for the white settlers that built it up and became americans

Its not indians, Indians are from India smart ass. My ancestors cared. We cared deeply, we were set in our traditions and your imperalism was deemed offensive to my ancestors. I don't care if your ancestors didn't do crap, the fact is that your family came here Illegally. Which means when passing down a judgement to an illegal immigrint, you are the hypocritical spawn of some ship boarding, imperalism loving, britishmen looking for religious freedoms. No one became anything, being American is a title given to the citizens of this nation. You do not get it just because you decided what the rules would be.

[Sugaree]

my ancestors immigrated in legally in the 19th century to america from britain and other parts of europe actually. none of my ancestors ever hurt a single indian which was wrong.

that argument got old years ago. america wasnt even a proper country with laws until europeans came as the indians did not rly care much if anyone lived there. i guess they gave an inch and we took a mile. but thats all in the past

america wouldnt be strong unless it was for the white settlers that built it up and became americans

Indians are from India (as previous stated). American Indians took offense when your ancestors took their land from them when they "bought" it. Your ancestors never legally immigrated from Britain to North America. Rather, they just boarded a dingy ship to get away from some tyrant ruler. It was you British that caused your own demised during the Revolution by taxing the people more.

Last I checked, immigrants in the 19th century didn't have legal tender papers proving that they were legal to move across the ocean to a new land. So if they sent all illegal immigrants home, that would include you and your family along with mine since my ancestors were from Scotland, crossing over in the 18th century.

Yeah wow, some white men made laws, big whoop. This land was stable before the pilgrims came over anyway despite having a few small wars between American Indian tribes. It was the "white men" who thought they owned the land of the American Indians. This caused a huge revolution and lead to bad consequences. Ever hear of Wounded Knee? Last I checked, that battle was fought over owned land between the Indian tribes in the Black Hills in the Dakotas.

[Sage]

my ancestors immigrated in legally in the 19th century to america from britain and other parts of europe actually. none of my ancestors ever hurt a single indian which was wrong.

that argument got old years ago. america wasnt even a proper country with laws until europeans came as the indians did not rly care much if anyone lived there. i guess they gave an inch and we took a mile. but thats all in the past

america wouldnt be strong unless it was for the white settlers that built it up and became americans

http://18.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kv8ad3cIa51qzcvqso1_400.gif

[Rutherford The Brave]

http://18.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kv8ad3cIa51qzcvqso1_400.gif

Your damn right.

[2D]

Your damn right.

That's you're, not your.


Grammar Nazi awayyyyyy!!!!!!!!!1

[Rebecca L Vaughn]

It depends on your point of view. (So to Speak) If you are a rich person you particularly would not like if illegal people come into the country to take jobs. On the other hand, if you were a poor person, you could compare to what it is like for the people in Mexico that want to come over to get better jobs, health, etc. They are only trying to help their families get money because they are poor and want a better life. I would say that I am for it but in some ways I am against it.

[StateRights]

Indians are from India (as previous stated). American Indians took offense when your ancestors took their land from them when they "bought" it. Your ancestors never legally immigrated from Britain to North America. Rather, they just boarded a dingy ship to get away from some tyrant ruler. It was you British that caused your own demised during the Revolution by taxing the people more.

Last I checked, immigrants in the 19th century didn't have legal tender papers proving that they were legal to move across the ocean to a new land. So if they sent all illegal immigrants home, that would include you and your family along with mine since my ancestors were from Scotland, crossing over in the 18th century.

Yeah wow, some white men made laws, big whoop. This land was stable before the pilgrims came over anyway despite having a few small wars between American Indian tribes. It was the "white men" who thought they owned the land of the American Indians. This caused a huge revolution and lead to bad consequences. Ever hear of Wounded Knee? Last I checked, that battle was fought over owned land between the Indian tribes in the Black Hills in the Dakotas.
ok as i said my ancestors are from other parts of europe, not just britain, so i'm not really british. and u cant say theyre illegal cause you dont KNOW that. anyhow my ancestors broke no existing laws at that time. and sorry i dont follow political correctness so i can call them indians if i like. and my ancestors didnt hurt any indian. oh and europeans built america and their desendents made the laws and those laws say u need to be legal, so thats it.

we have laws for a reason and were not that hard to move to. just get a skill or marry an american there are hundreds of ways. we dont need people who invading america and taking american jobs, which americans DO work for its just that some have crappy wages that real americans cant afford 2 work on.

tyvm

[Rutherford The Brave]

ok as i said my ancestors are from other parts of europe, not just britain, so i'm not really british. and u cant say theyre illegal cause you dont KNOW that. anyhow my ancestors broke no existing laws at that time. and sorry i dont follow political correctness so i can call them indians if i like. and my ancestors didnt hurt any indian. oh and europeans built america and their desendents made the laws and those laws say u need to be legal, so thats it.

we have laws for a reason and were not that hard to move to. just get a skill or marry an american there are hundreds of ways. we dont need people who invading america and taking american jobs, which americans DO work for its just that some have crappy wages that real americans cant afford 2 work on.

tyvm

I'll tell you again its not fucking Indians you sound like a damn fool. Hypothetically speaking, lets say you have a family that is related to you but not indirectly from England. They immigrate to this country illegally, are you going to prosecute them as you would a Mexican immigrant?

If we as Americans are having a hard time getting a job, Maybe we should go to Fucking college instead of sitting around and expecting just because we are Americans that we should have a job available. Also if its a blue collar job maybe we should work harder and stop asking for much. Thats why immigrants are getting jobs, because they are more active, they work harder and they do not expect everything to fall into their lap.

[Sugaree]

ok as i said my ancestors are from other parts of europe, not just britain, so i'm not really british. and u cant say theyre illegal cause you dont KNOW that. anyhow my ancestors broke no existing laws at that time. and sorry i dont follow political correctness so i can call them indians if i like. and my ancestors didnt hurt any indian. oh and europeans built america and their desendents made the laws and those laws say u need to be legal, so thats it.

we have laws for a reason and were not that hard to move to. just get a skill or marry an american there are hundreds of ways. we dont need people who invading america and taking american jobs, which americans DO work for its just that some have crappy wages that real americans cant afford 2 work on.

tyvm

Technically, it WAS illegal that they crossed over. To immigrate from one country to another today, you'd need legal tender paper work, passport, etc. etc. Your ancestors just came over on a ship and settled wherever their asses could fit. Also, it's not political correctness to call your so called "indians" as "American Indians" or "Native Americans". It's because they WERE the first to settle on this land. It was the Europeans who eventually claimed ownership of their lands that got them pissed off. Also, how sure are you when you say that your ancestors didn't even harm the Native Americans? So one of them called you and told you all about it?

Laws today are very hard to move, and you're right with that. But the fact that Americans aren't getting the jobs IN America has been overused. The only reason that Americans can't get jobs is because they blame everything on the economy and decide to not get off their asses and find a job. So who is taking the advantage? The illegal immigrants. They may be illegal, but they are human beings. They need money to support their family, support themselves, and to make an honest living. If this country is so "welcoming" then why are we trying to kick out these immigrants?

[quartermaster]

Technically, it WAS illegal that they crossed over. To immigrate from one country to another today, you'd need legal tender paper work, passport, etc. etc. Your ancestors just came over on a ship and settled wherever their asses could fit.

I agree with your fundamental premise(s), but now you're just "talking out of your ass." You have no basis for this claim, it's a fallacy.

[Sugaree]

I agree with your fundamental premise(s), but now you're just "talking out of your ass." You have no basis for this claim, it's a fallacy.

Elaborate on this, as I've gone over my post without any conclusion as to why it is a fallacy.

[quartermaster]

Elaborate on this, as I've gone over my post without any conclusion as to why it is a fallacy.

You cannot apply a law of today, to the situation of yesterday. Your folly is a subset of the historian's fallacy, where you apply the information, morality or law of the present, on the past. Essentially, what you have done is committed an ex post facto; just because it is illegal today, does not denote that it was illegal back then, nor would they be considered “illegals” in today's terms when looking back, as there was no law making their immigration illegal.

Of course, this assumes that his family did immigrate to a place where they did not break any anti-immigration laws; even if they did, you have no way of knowing that, thus you have committed the fallacy of a hasty generalization in that regard.

[StateRights]

thank you quartermaster. and no my ancestors werent illegal back then so your point on that sucks, The Dog. they also did not hurt or invade any american indian.. native.. whatever u want to call it. the world is a very different place today and so is america. now we have about 300 million people here and we are fully civilized. we also have clear immigration laws and guidelines and i'm completely accepting and welcoming to those who RESPECT our immigration laws and get fking green card. but illegal immigrants from anywhere do not deserve to live here if they are going 2 be breaking federal laws.

I'll tell you again its not fucking Indians you sound like a damn fool. Hypothetically speaking, lets say you have a family that is related to you but not indirectly from England. They immigrate to this country illegally, are you going to prosecute them as you would a Mexican immigrant?

If we as Americans are having a hard time getting a job, Maybe we should go to Fucking college instead of sitting around and expecting just because we are Americans that we should have a job available. Also if its a blue collar job maybe we should work harder and stop asking for much. Thats why immigrants are getting jobs, because they are more active, they work harder and they do not expect everything to fall into their lap.
lololol. firstly this isnt a RACE issue. i do not care where illegals come from whether its mexico, canada, england, africa or whatever. if theyre illegal they should NOT be in america. just like an american should NOT be illegal in any of those countries. its a 2 way street. so yes i wouldnt want my imaginary mexican family to be in america if they were illegal. secondly thats a stupid statement 2 make. americans should not be forced to go to college just because our governent and employers do a crap job at protecting our work. not all americans can AFFORD college and not all americans have the TIME for college. they may have families to look after! nobody living legally im america should be forced to "upgrade" themselfs just because people who aren't even MEANT 2 be in our country will get their jobs because they will work 4 abysmal wages.

[Rutherford The Brave]

thank you quartermaster. and no my ancestors werent illegal back then so your point on that sucks, The Dog. they also did not hurt or invade any american indian.. native.. whatever u want to call it. the world is a very different place today and so is america. now we have about 300 million people here and we are fully civilized. we also have clear immigration laws and guidelines and i'm completely accepting and welcoming to those who RESPECT our immigration laws and get fking green card. but illegal immigrants from anywhere do not deserve to live here if they are going 2 be breaking federal laws.


lololol. firstly this isnt a RACE issue. i do not care where illegals come from whether its mexico, canada, england, africa or whatever. if theyre illegal they should NOT be in america. just like an american should NOT be illegal in any of those countries. its a 2 way street. so yes i wouldnt want my imaginary mexican family to be in america if they were illegal. secondly thats a stupid statement 2 make. americans should not be forced to go to college just because our governent and employers do a crap job at protecting our work. not all americans can AFFORD college and not all americans have the TIME for college. they may have families to look after! nobody living legally im america should be forced to "upgrade" themselfs just because people who aren't even MEANT 2 be in our country will get their jobs because they will work 4 abysmal wages.

Thats not my problem that they wanted to have kids before they got a job, thats not my fault they didn't work hard enough to get into college. (You can get in by scholarships.) Its not my fault that Americans these days are to lazy. To bad if you as an American doesn't get a job and an immigrant does. Immigrants throughout history have been doing a better job then us for lower wages, and you wonder why they get hired over lazy ass Americans?

[Jesusb]

I do think they should legalize them but first do like a background check to make sure they don't have a criminal history or something like that

[redcar]

Simple answer. If you are illegal you are removable.
Can't just have amnesties and let every Tom, Dick and Harry in. Its a receipe for disaster.

[Sugaree]

I do think they should legalize them but first do like a background check to make sure they don't have a criminal history or something like that

But how? If they are new to the country, we don't have any records on them. We wouldn't be able to tell if they have a criminal background unless they are on a "Most Wanted" list.

[Iron Man]

well, in my opinion it is their fault that the economy is so bad because they take our jobs for cheaper and why there are a lot of jobless americans out there. so i think that all illegals should be displaced to where they came from, whether or not they were born here.

[Mental]

well, in my opinion it is their fault that the economy is so bad because they take our jobs for cheaper and why there are a lot of jobless americans out there. so i think that all illegals should be displaced to where they came from, whether or not they were born here.
Nnnnnno.... not really.
The U.S. and worldwide economy is bad because of so many other factors. Illegal immigrants are ranked very low on that list. Js.