The God Delusion By: Richard Dawkins

[wisse2012]

Who has ever read this book. when i read it i wasnt sure how to take it i have recently read the book again... for thos of you who havent read it it is abut how god and religions dont make sense and how science has explainable explanations for everything. Now when i recently read it i understood it better. and i have made my decision to be atheist. my mom is a bible school teacher. this just shows how quickly science can change your mind. for anyone whom have problem with there religion i advise you to read this book. It may help you base your religious belifes and how to live with it. this is here for disscucion on what others think on their religion and if anyone has any ideas on how i can tell my parents please let me kno...

[Aspiringanonymous]

Science doesn't have explanations for everything.

[Mzor203]

Science doesn't have explanations for everything.

Following on that though, religion has explanations for nothing. Just supposed 'answers' which have no factual backing.

[Sage]

religion has explanations for nothing.

Morality.

[theOperaGhost]

The only problem I have with this is (and no, I'm not religious at all) that it sounds an awful lot like you are trying to "convert" people. Atheists bitch and moan whenever a religious person tries to "convert" them, so why can you do the same thing? Double standards piss me off. I refuse to call myself an atheist for the simple reason that I can't stand the majority of the people who do call themselves atheists. I don't want to be associated with them at all (not all atheists are bad, mind you).

[Sage]

The only problem I have with this is (and no, I'm not religious at all) that it sounds an awful lot like you are trying to "convert" people. Atheists bitch and moan whenever a religious person tries to "convert" them, so why can you do the same thing? Double standards piss me off. I refuse to call myself an atheist for the simple reason that I can't stand the majority of the people who do call themselves atheists. I don't want to be associated with them at all (not all atheists are bad, mind you).

That's why I'm agnostic.

[Triceratops]

The only problem I have with this is (and no, I'm not religious at all) that it sounds an awful lot like you are trying to "convert" people. Atheists bitch and moan whenever a religious person tries to "convert" them, so why can you do the same thing? Double standards piss me off. I refuse to call myself an atheist for the simple reason that I can't stand the majority of the people who do call themselves atheists. I don't want to be associated with them at all (not all atheists are bad, mind you).

^ This.

Science doesn't have explanations for everything.

^ And this.

Following on that though, religion has explanations for nothing. Just supposed 'answers' which have no factual backing.

I disagree.
Personally, I find that religion has explained a very large amount for me.
It's down to the individual to see for themselves whether God exists, or doesn't exist. Once you have truly found your faith, or perhaps undergone a religious experience, some things in life just become surprisingly clear.
I find that science just isn't powerful enough to be the sole cause behind the formation of the universe. Each precise detail within this Earth is just far too perplexed for some explosion to have naturally created it from out of nowhere.

Believe me, it takes a whole lot more than some scientific evidence to disprove the power of faith.

[Mzor203]

Believe me, it takes a whole lot more than some scientific evidence to disprove the power of faith.

Again, I think it takes a whole lot more than faith to disprove scientific evidence. Science is vastly more powerful than a lot of us believe, and since the universe has been around for an infinite amount of time, it's had that endless amount of time to evolve into the state that it is in today. It seems rather more sudden than that to us, but that is only because we are only now living and being able to see this universe which has already had that time to evolve.

Faith, while supposedly powerful, does nothing to actually -answer- the questions I'm most interested in... answers that can only be provided by two things. Science, or God. And since it is pretty obvious that I'm never going to get a chance to talk to God about any of this (he's just stingy like that, I guess), the only logical course is science.

[theOperaGhost]

I honestly don't see either science or religion answering most of the questions I'm interested in, so I guess I can't believe in either.

[deadpie]

I honestly don't see either science or religion answering most of the questions I'm interested in, so I guess I can't believe in either.

Pretty much what operaghost said. Science hasn't proved anything to be real or not, and neither has religion. I guess it's all between your faith, or your beliefs in mindset. Sometimes religion isn't all about faith, but more of just knowing something is greater then you.

I'm an atheist and proud of it, but I don't shove it in people's face. I don't try to convert anyone, and when someone tries to pull their religion on me, I just tell them I'm not interested in the nicest way I can.

[Ghosthustler]

That's why I'm agnostic.

Agnosticism isn't a religious deceleration (Or lack there of), silly Des. :D

[Sage]

Faith, while supposedly powerful, does nothing to actually -answer- the questions I'm most interested in... answers that can only be provided by two things. Science, or God.

If you think you've boiled down the secrets of the universe to one of two sources, they will forever remain a mystery to you. Or, if you prefer a shorter answer-

False dichotomy. Thanks for playin'.

[INFERNO]

Science doesn't have explanations for everything.

True, however, the explanations that are present have been tested and re-tested and had new findings analyzed to see if they can shed some let or possibly refute a previous explanation.

On the other hand, religion has one constant explanation that assumes it's correct without any testing or verification methods. The explanation it offers covers everything and so you're left with the same answer that has a greater chance of being wrong because it's never analyzed nor tested.

So it depends, which do you want? Explanations that are verifiable, constantly re-tested and give precise processes to something but cannot cover everything OR one explanation that is not verifiable, has no validity nor reliability and is incredibly vague and ambiguous but can apply to everything. A simpler question to help you decide, which do you want more in terms of explanations: high quality, low quantity vs. low quality, high quantity?

I disagree.
Personally, I find that religion has explained a very large amount for me.
It's down to the individual to see for themselves whether God exists, or doesn't exist. Once you have truly found your faith, or perhaps undergone a religious experience, some things in life just become surprisingly clear.

So it boils down to a change in perception to something that assumes above all less without any evidence or reasons that are not circular, that it is correct.


I find that science just isn't powerful enough to be the sole cause behind the formation of the universe. Each precise detail within this Earth is just far too perplexed for some explosion to have naturally created it from out of nowhere.


But you believe that a deity created himself and time at the exact same moment. Following that, that same deity made everything while punishing many for not being perfect like he is yet he denies access for one to be perfect prior to being dead. But why do you believe that someone had to guide everything in place? Is it not possible for a system to function properly by itself without having an external force interfere? Is it not possible for random chance to produce something productive and beneficial? Is it not possible for things to regulate, maintain and change as a reaction to the environment without having an external force interfere?

[Bluearmy]

@debate
Science explains things, Religion interprets them. There should be no conflict. I can't remember who said that, but it's an epic quote.


@person who made thread
Telling you parents that you are an atheist will be hard on them, since that is opposite of your beliefs. But you should be up-front and stand firm to your morals, values, and convictions. There is no reason for you to fake that you believe when you absolutely don't. Just explain to them why. If your reason is rational and your parents are good parents, then it would be best to be fourth-coming about it so a comfortable barrier can begin to grow early on. I've seen religious debates where there are two opposing parties. It's not a pretty sight.

[Mzor203]

If you think you've boiled down the secrets of the universe to one of two sources, they will forever remain a mystery to you. Or, if you prefer a shorter answer-

False dichotomy. Thanks for playin'.

I think you've misunderstood the point of the post entirely. It is pretty evident from a bit of thinking that there are a good deal of questions that are never going to be answered in my lifetime - and possibly never at all, unless God does exist and he has the answers to these questions, which as of yet I can not assume as I have not seen any evidence which points to the existence of God as the Christian faith views him.

Therefore, I am left with two options, assuming I want to look deeper into the workings of the universe:

a) Use the tools I am given, make observations, and use the evidence which I myself have collected to make educated guesses, bringing me that much closer to understanding the focus of my studies...

or...

b) Say "God did it."

To a practical person like myself, which one is obviously going to hold more appeal? If God wished to show me that he was indeed existent, I figure he would have made that clear to me somehow. It's not my fault for being raised in an Atheist family... I couldn't help that.

"Faith" and "Science" are both very broad words, and therefore very useful in encapsulating the two main methods of understanding our universe. The point is that in the end, these 'secrets' are going to either come from the result of science, the revelation of them from some higher power, or a combination thereof. Yes, of course there are shades of grey. It does not change the point, which is that taking the proactive route of using science to determine these answers instead wandering around hoping they fall into your arms is a much more reasonable method of going about this.

I'm no scientist, and I don't claim to be. I just have interest in these matters, and as I see it, unless I can talk to God directly and have a two-way conversation with him, using science (in the broad term) is going to prove to be much more fruitful.

[Kahn]

We are a people of both Religion and Science. People need to deal with it.

[Sage]

Therefore, I am left with two options

No, your simple human mind is left with two answers. You missed my point entirely.

[Mzor203]

The point is that in the end, these 'secrets' are going to either come from the result of science, the revelation of them from some higher power, or a combination thereof. Yes, of course there are shades of grey.

As I said, of course there are shades of grey. Of course there's going to be a certain amount of overlap between faith and science, if that is what you're trying to get at. If not, well can you please elaborate on what your point was exactly other than what I said was wrong for some mysterious reason?

I just see poking at a calculator and coming to conclusions or sitting there and saying 'Gpd did it' as your conclusion fall into very seperate categories.

[Sage]

I just see poking at a calculator and coming to conclusions or sitting there and saying 'Gpd did it' as your conclusion fall into very seperate categories.

And what I'm getting at is that you're a living testament to human ignorance if you think the answer to everything we want to know about the universe and existence can fall into two categories.

[Triceratops]

But you believe that a deity created himself and time at the exact same moment. Following that, that same deity made everything while punishing many for not being perfect like he is yet he denies access for one to be perfect prior to being dead. But why do you believe that someone had to guide everything in place? Is it not possible for a system to function properly by itself without having an external force interfere? Is it not possible for random chance to produce something productive and beneficial? Is it not possible for things to regulate, maintain and change as a reaction to the environment without having an external force interfere?

That's exactly what I had trouble getting my head around, initially.
Questioning where this explosion would of came from was challenging, but I've never really trusted science because I believe in many things that can break the laws of science (E.G. miracles, stigmata's, the Holy Spirit, mystical and religious experiences). I have questioned where God must have come from, but the faith I have experienced is just so powerful that I realise I should trust God and anticipate until I die and ascend to heaven, where things will be clarified by God himself. Right now, I believe mankind is incapable of comprehending numerous things about the universe since the entire matter is far beyond a human being's knowledge and understanding. Only a higher and much more powerful being would grasp the true acknowledgements, fathoms and discernments of how this universe was originally formed. Nothing else.

[Aspiringanonymous]

I believe mankind is incapable of comprehending numerous things about the universe since the entire matter is far beyond a human being's knowledge and understanding.
Indeed it is.

Most human minds will find this idea unsettling to some extent, however. We want to get to the bottom of things, find an explanation for everything, whether or not the theory stands up to challenge. But most of all, we don't want to just hold "perceptions of truth", we want to know that we are investing hopes and passions in the truth. What ever that actually is.

If one perceives something to be real and truthful, than to them, it is their reality. It may seem like a delusion to someone else, but that doesn't make it appear any less real to the one with that genuine belief. Religion and spirituality is a personal choice; why can't we all just practice religious tolerance?

Faith and science can absolutely co-exist in harmony. It has been done before, it can still be done today. Both, ultimately, are subject to limitations in its decipherment of our existence; where one is rendered ineffective, the other would be able to fill in. Of course, as both science and spirituality evolves over time, its roles with respect to one another also undergoes change.

[Hyper]

We are a people of both Religion and Science. People need to deal with it.

^

This.. Every time threads like this come around its just facepalm.. I keep wondering where did the philosophy originate from that science is something that is the nemesis of religion and that it can somehow render faith in a persons life useless. I'm not going to dwell into a random monologue on my opinion of people who desperately cling to logic & fact and have given up on faith of any kind..

Also this science rendering faith & religion useless thing almost always makes me wonder has science become a organized religion as well... You know them fanatics, can't have a religion without them!

But all of that personal banter, that nobody really cares about, aside the dude in the quote said it all, society should stop moaning about this and cooperate about it. Science - Religion not water & oil, can be kept perfectly separate in the human mind, even if your a creationist.... Though that would definitely be a 1 out of 100 000, at least.

Also when people stop making literal interpretations of the bible we'll have alleviated the faults of mass religion, greatly as well!

[Jean Poutine]

HEY GUYS!

I decided I would make it MY business to make sure that people believed in either religion or science - THEY CANNOT COEXIST!

I swear if it were revealed that God was in fact a scientist and that baby Jesus created the Universe by mixing two brightly colored liquids in a divine mock kid's laboratory, it would be the greatest day ever.