Grabbing His Ball and Running Home

[nnnm]

I'm getting a little annoyed of people complaining about the troop surge, with Obamas plan to withdraw soon. It is necessary to win this war. It is compared to Obama just "taking his ball and running home." Did you ever play kick, base, foot- ball with the one kid that sucks, and everyone teases but owns the ball? Did he ever get upset and just "take his ball home" so that everyone else couldn't play either. That is what Obama is trying to do.

Please reply with your standings.

[chazzrox2]

I'm getting a little annoyed of people complaining about the troop surge, with Obamas plan to withdraw soon.

an extra 30,000 troops doesn't sound like withdrawing to me...just saying

[Kahn]

It is not withdrawing but with this surge we might be able to get the mountain people http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/spongebob/images/5/5d/Cave.jpg out of their caves. (Sorry I wanted to make a funny). Honestly it is a 50/50 shot at wether we can get to Osama before he can get out. Which is funny honestly. We have thousands of people over there searching for him yet we still cannot find him, so now we are sending more.

The thing is with this surge comes a price to pay. When and if we find Osama Bin Laden, we will have thousands of jobs that we need to fill for the vets that are still coming back. What do you think will happen when we have thousands unemployed? America is already showing signs of decline. Once we find Osama Bin Laden, I think it is the end of power for America. I find it sad but I think it is our time to give the seat to someone else.

[Rutherford The Brave]

There's nothing to win, what are we going to win if we defeat the taliban? Nothing, infact we will have lost so much. Men, resources, innocent people, etc. When this war ends, I think that no one will really say that the war was won. But rather thank who ever they believe in that it is over.

[Kahn]

I guess Greg is right. There really will be no winner or loser. It is a war against an informal militia. Even if we do "win" in our own minds they (The Terrorists) might believe they had won.

[The Batman]

What else is there left? We took out Saddam and they are not finding bin laden by having a hell of a lot of soldiers over there we need to start withdrawing troops and if they want to find bin laden then put together a special team and have them search. The economy is bad and we don't need to waste money on a war that's got no where to go.

[INFERNO]

I think it's about time to end the war because it's become a wild goose chase trying to find Osama. Wherever he is he's hiding in such a way that we cannot find him and the place that the soldiers are meant to defend (America) is going to hell by the economy. Sending out more people isn't going to do anything amazing because suppose we do find Osama, then what? Whatever the consequence is for him, we're the ones (I'm talking from America's perspective not Canada's) taking the larger consequence and more long-lasting one. Suppose he gets locked up or killed, then that's basically kicking ourselves real hard because we've gone through such a mess and are in such a mess right now just to end up having one person have such a dismal sentence compared to ours. It's pretty much like we're laughing or degrading ourselves.

When this war ends, there is no true winner because both sides are so far in the shitter that it'd be asking which one is less worse when both are in awful states as it is. I'd say it's about even in terms of how far both sides are in the shitter so if we want to have some more immediate good come of this, then just say screw it and focus on getting our economy more stable than a house of cards in a windy room. Otherwise, regardless of who wins the battle, we lose the war.

[Kahn]

Just a quick question. How can a whole nations Army not find one man hiding in the mountains that has a liver or kidney disease?

[Giles]

Just a quick question. How can a whole nations Army not find one man hiding in the mountains that has a liver or kidney disease?

Because He's probably already dead...
Also, it's not hard to hide one body in a few countries... (Iraq,Iran, Afghanistan)

[Rainstorm]

I don't even consider this much of a war anymore. All we're doing is fighting against some extremists, who have no official army.

And really, this has went from a war about us finding Bin laden, to just us supporting the Middle East as they go through a Civil War. If they want to fight it out amongst themselves, they can. I don't see why the US needs to put itse nose in things that no longer concern us

[Kahn]

Because if we back off from what we've already started and the extremists win then we will have a real army to fight. And a real army is much worse than just a sort of developed group hiding in mountain caves in Afghan.

[Strength]

This is the 'change' he spoke of...

[chazzrox2]

I think it's about time to end the war because it's become a wild goose chase trying to find Osama.

why is everyone pretending like the war is still about finding Osama Bin Laden?
It is about getting rid of terrorists. not the removal of a perhaps already dead image.

Using the armis out their to remove terrorist cells and train the Afghani police to do it efficiently is much more effective.

Or we could do what we did last time and stop any corruption by saying they have nuclear bombs and killing the president.

[Rainstorm]

why is everyone pretending like the war is still about finding Osama Bin Laden?
It is about getting rid of terrorists. not the removal of a perhaps already dead image.

I hope you know, we're never going to "get rid" of terrorism. There always has, and always will be, terrorists.

[INFERNO]

why is everyone pretending like the war is still about finding Osama Bin Laden?
It is about getting rid of terrorists. not the removal of a perhaps already dead image.

Because getting rid of terrorists is so unlikely I'd venture to say an impossible idea. Finding Osama is actually practically possible.


Using the armis out their to remove terrorist cells and train the Afghani police to do it efficiently is much more effective.

Agreed.


Or we could do what we did last time and stop any corruption by saying they have nuclear bombs and killing the president.

Although it may not start corruption, it would start a good amount of controversy especially with other countries already pulling out because of the view that there's no immediate threat, hence, no purpose in staying there. We cant ethically say they have something and begin killing their political leaders because their politics is already unstable as it is, there's no need to screw it around even more. Besides, if we make such allegations, then we need either some hard proof or a reason to show why they have nukes. We cant simply say "hey, they got nukes, now let's go kill their president because that'll solve everything". That's not going to solve everything, it's going to add in more chaos to the mess, which I might add, the mess is being cleaned up.

[My_Toes_Are_Cold]

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here, even though I will be undoubtedly flamed.

I know many members of the United States Marine Corp and the United States Army and I have asked them the same question: "were the Iraqis rude to you?". Every single member has expressed that the Iraqis were grateful for their presence and were frequently thanked by the people.

While I do not approve of the Iraq War, I do support the fighting in Afghanistan. After the United States went in, women in Afghanistan were actually allowed to make their own choice and the literacy rate surged upward. While, tactically, it is a losing war... I still support the idea. While I would rather there being no war at all, that simply isn't possible to achieve unless I learned how to cheat the spacetime continuum. From this point, we can only hope for the future.

[INFERNO]

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here, even though I will be undoubtedly flamed.

I know many members of the United States Marine Corp and the United States Army and I have asked them the same question: "were the Iraqis rude to you?". Every single member has expressed that the Iraqis were grateful for their presence and were frequently thanked by the people.

While I do not approve of the Iraq War, I do support the fighting in Afghanistan. After the United States went in, women in Afghanistan were actually allowed to make their own choice and the literacy rate surged upward. While, tactically, it is a losing war... I still support the idea. While I would rather there being no war at all, that simply isn't possible to achieve unless I learned how to cheat the spacetime continuum. From this point, we can only hope for the future.

While the US is there now, do you think it should still be deemed a war or do you think it's simmered down? I agree, some of the effects for the Afganis is good despite how it's screwing over the US, do you think as many soldiers should be there or do you think it should be less army people and more achieving the goals without that many?

[My_Toes_Are_Cold]

A troop surge doesn't happen for no reason, and I believe the war in Afghanistan is more about helping them than oil. The country isn't exactly a resource powerhouse... it's arid, mountainous, and unpleasant. The reason we have 30,000 more soldiers there is because the fighting there has become too difficult for the original force. It's force-on-force fighting there; not as many cars blowing up randomly, more getting shot at.

It's a warzone in Afghanistan right now.

[Richthegamer99]

an extra 30,000 troops doesn't sound like withdrawing to me...just saying

extra 30,000 troops going into the war WTF where does the money comefrom to pay for this war

[Rainstorm]

extra 30,000 troops going into the war WTF where does the money comefrom to pay for this war

The same place credit card charges come from. You can put off paying for as long as you can, but eventually, that bill is going to wind up on Obama's desk, or whoever may be our new president. Of course, then this country will be in an even bigger debt, but that's a different topic

[nightrider250R]

The same place credit card charges come from. You can put off paying for as long as you can, but eventually, that bill is going to wind up on Obama's desk, or whoever may be our new president. Of course, then this country will be in an even bigger debt, but that's a different topic




No he is gonna tax the hell out of us and force us to spend more money than needed. I think he said like an extra billion dollars for the 30,000 troops.

[Norton]

I just wish i could be one of those 30,000 going. Its a shame i was born in '92 and not like 5 yrs. earlier so that i could already be done with my officer and infantry training and being deployed like now. I just wish they would lower the bar on the rules of engagement so we could get things done over there better. We aren't letting are troops unleash their full fighting potential by limiting their combat effectiveness via strict rules of engagement. this is a hot zone, and the R.O.E. should be adjusted accordingly and Obama hasn't done that thus far. We need to More funding for the Army and Marines to increase our ground forces effectiveness as well by replacing a lot of our REALLY outdated gear and weapons that are still stocked (like older night vision devices, over used small arms, worn humvees, and etc... )

[nightrider250R]

I just wish i could be one of those 30,000 going. Its a shame i was born in '92 and not like 5 yrs. earlier so that i could already be done with my officer and infantry training and being deployed like now. I just wish they would lower the bar on the rules of engagement so we could get things done over there better. We aren't letting are troops unleash their full fighting potential by limiting their combat effectiveness via strict rules of engagement. this is a hot zone, and the R.O.E. should be adjusted accordingly and Obama hasn't done that thus far. We need to More funding for the Army and Marines to increase our ground forces effectiveness as well by replacing a lot of our REALLY outdated gear and weapons that are still stocked (like older night vision devices, over used small arms, worn humvees, and etc... )

Amen to that. I too want to fight, but from the air. Your right about the funding. The troops need more if they are gonna live and make progress.

[Norton]

Amen to that. I too want to fight, but from the air. Your right about the funding. The troops need more if they are gonna live and make progress.

You goin' Airforce? when are you gettinin?
I'm personally going army for either Infantry or Scout Calvary(Humvee platoons with .50's and the like). I'll take either, cause i don't know which MOS i will be able to squeeze into, cause i hear it can be hard to get into when demand for man power is lower in certain fields. I just want my boots on the ground at the frontline.

[nightrider250R]

You goin' Airforce? when are you gettinin?
I'm personally going army for either Infantry or Scout Calvary(Humvee platoons with .50's and the like). I'll take either, cause i don't know which MOS i will be able to squeeze into, cause i hear it can be hard to get into when demand for man power is lower in certain fields. I just want my boots on the ground at the frontline.

Im joining the Navy in like eight years. A Humvee platoon would be BAD A$$. I like the Ground units but I have a certain love for air combat.

[AddiEast]

There's nothing to win, what are we going to win if we defeat the taliban? Nothing, infact we will have lost so much. Men, resources, innocent people, etc. When this war ends, I think that no one will really say that the war was won. But rather thank who ever they believe in that it is over.

:clap:
You said it pefectly
Its sad but true. We cant "WIN" this war
Im all for taking our ball and going home.

[Kahn]

But if we take our "Balls" and run home then what will we gain? Less people out of work. Just being a soldier is a job, and it puts thousands with jobs. The only thing is when this war ends we will sky rocket in unemployment. That I think is a turn off for returning our troops home.

[Rainstorm]

I just wish i could be one of those 30,000 going. Its a shame i was born in '92 and not like 5 yrs. earlier so that i could already be done with my officer and infantry training and being deployed like now. I just wish they would lower the bar on the rules of engagement so we could get things done over there better. We aren't letting are troops unleash their full fighting potential by limiting their combat effectiveness via strict rules of engagement. this is a hot zone, and the R.O.E. should be adjusted accordingly and Obama hasn't done that thus far. We need to More funding for the Army and Marines to increase our ground forces effectiveness as well by replacing a lot of our REALLY outdated gear and weapons that are still stocked (like older night vision devices, over used small arms, worn humvees, and etc... )


We can't really fund using money we don't have, now can we?

[Norton]

We can't really fund using money we don't have, now can we?

Trust me, The department of defence has the funding, but they would rather spend it on useless things like new insanely advanced naval warfare equipment rather than on the things that matter (ground forces and support elements). plus the Government has deep pockets as long as it keeps over taxing its citizens like it continues to do. trust me i know, I have to pay my taxes :(

[Rainstorm]

Trust me, The department of defence has the funding, but they would rather spend it on useless things like new insanely advanced naval warfare equipment rather than on the things that matter (ground forces and support elements). plus the Government has deep pockets as long as it keeps over taxing its citizens like it continues to do. trust me i know, I have to pay my taxes :(

So, putting the money for another aspect of the military is now useless?

Anyway, back to the op, this is a pointless war with no end in sight. Even if we send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan, what are the chances we will find the most likely dead body of Bin Laden in the region that isn't helping us with the cause? This is a non winnable war. Even if we somehow miraculously find Bin Laden, we have still necessarily lost the war. Nine years of pointless fighting.

Yes, 9/11 was a terrible event. Yes, the terrorists are the cause. Still, you have to realize at some point in time you can't beat an idea that opposes yours. If Obama was smart, he'd pull out.