Just 3?

[nnnm]

Why are the US, Singapore, and Japan the only 3 developed countries to still retain the death penalty. More focusing on the US:

I'm pretty sure a life sentence (and a FULL life not with parole) is more effective than death. Did you ever kill a bug and then "put it out of its misery?" That is the same thing. They will have to live with the guilt, and the boredom, and suffering in prison, instead of being "put out of their misery."

Please reply with your standing.

[theOperaGhost]

What do victims gain from knowing the person who committed whatever crime against them is still alive and can possibly escape? You may say the same question as "what do they gain from knowing they are dead?" I can answer that question. There is closure...the feeling that they got what they deserved.

I personally see no reason for sentencing someone to life...if they're going to die in prison, what's the point in prolonging it so long? Might as well speed up the process.

[sweetmisery]

I'm pretty sure a life sentence (and a FULL life not with parole) is more effective than death

A life sentence IS like death - it's just prolonging the inevitable. Criminals who get life sentences cost a lot of money to the state and government, just to fund the space, the food, etc. So why keep them in prison? It would be a lot better to put them out of their misery right then and there - who cares about the criminals pain and suffering while their in jail - those families or people that fall victims to criminals find closure in knowing that person is not in the world anymore.

With life sentence criminals there is always the possibility that they will get out and strike again, as if there with any other criminal. There's no point in having them join the massive, crowded prisons if their future is already staring them right in the face: death.

[chazzrox2]

Death is the easy option. If someone committed a crime against me severe enough for the death penalty i would love to make sure that they rotted in prison for the rest of their lives rather than having them killed straight away.

Yea a bit evil but say they killed ur kid? partner?...u get my point

[INFERNO]

I say keep them in the prisons for a different reason. With the advancement of technology and law, there is an advancement in forensic psychology and unfortunately, it gets incredibly difficult to advance this field if the life-sentenced criminals, such as a serial killer, gets killed right away. For the benefit of science I say keep them in prison. This goes for other fields of science also, such as pharmacology, psychiatry, neurology, etc..., we can have a perfect opportunity to study the person and from that we can benefit society. By killing them we waste a valuable resource that could benefit us.

Regarding the families getting closure, isn't it closure enough to know that they're behind bars? Sure they have a possibility of escaping but where they are right now, they're more likely to stay there than to escape. Regardless of the acts they committed, they are still a human and they should be treated as such. They're not a broken toy or a piece of trash we as society toss out because we don't like them or because they're an inconvenience to have. What they did to get in the life-long sentence is something that may make some people question whether or not they're a human, however, look at it from the other view. What do we become if we simply kill them and possibly celebrate or ignore their death? We become aroused by their death, something that the actual prisoner probably did themselves. We're all capable of whatever the prisoner did and when we simply write them off and kill them, we're showing that to society. As an added bonus, society doesn't frown on it, it approves of the killing, almost as though we've regressed to the Medieval times and becoming more barbaric.

Lastly, for those who believe the criminal should indeed suffer for their crimes, then it becomes contradictory to put them to death right away. If you wish for them to suffer, aside from the fact that it won't change what happened and will simply generate a spiral of acting or supporting the hatred, then why give them the easy way out? This isn't the argument I'm in high support of, it just is a way of analyzing how the purpose of the killing goes against what the wishes are.

[XxHaViiK]

Sure they would have to be in prison for the rest of their miserable little useless lives, but it will be YOUR money paying to keep them alive in the future. I'd be 100% keeping people in jail if I knew adults weren't paying taxes to keep those people alive. But, for now, I say kill 'em all, until the government will pay for it.

[INFERNO]

Sure they would have to be in prison for the rest of their miserable little useless lives, but it will be YOUR money paying to keep them alive in the future. I'd be 100% keeping people in jail if I knew adults weren't paying taxes to keep those people alive. But, for now, I say kill 'em all, until the government will pay for it.

These are humans, living, breathing creatures we're talking about, not some random little toy. By saying just to kill them all, then it seems contradictory to want to have a nice society without killers or criminals who do crimes to get life in prison, when the society supports killing of its members simply because they're undesirable and a pain to have.

[Giles]

These are humans, living, breathing creatures we're talking about, not some random little toy. By saying just to kill them all, then it seems contradictory to want to have a nice society without killers or criminals who do crimes to get life in prison, when the society supports killing of its members simply because they're undesirable and a pain to have.
Killing the killers and criminals would completely get rid of that particular person and would act as a brilliant deterrent if it was more common place.

(I'm in the Uk, we don't have the death penalty over here. But I'm joining in anyway)

[INFERNO]

Killing the killers and criminals would completely get rid of that particular person and would act as a brilliant deterrent if it was more common place.


True, it probably work be a good deterrent for many, however, even if the death penalty was kept in Canada, then I'd say only for the absolute worst criminals where they're in life without parole. As much as I am against it, that's the only time I could be lenient enough to support it. Other than that, I wouldn't say to use it for any other criminal. To me it just seems that if we instill the death penalty to be more common for more crimes, then we've regressed back to the Medieval times, only with fancier gadgets and more sterilized equipment for the killing.

[The Batman]

We should focus more on rehabilitation and less on putting people away or killing them. Who says that we can say who deserves to live an die but a criminal can't? We're no better than them by doing it no matter what you want to say to help you sleep at night you're still taking away someone's life.

[meygan]

death penalty is wrong. it's not just the fact that you're killing someone, its also the fact that you have potential to kill someone INNOCENT. people get wrongly accused and sentenced all the time, and at least with prison you can let someone out if you realise you've got it wrong which can kinda correct your mistakes a little. but you cant undo death.

[Camazotz]

I think we can all agree that killing is a bad thing. If killing is wrong, why should we kill a convicted criminal? We've already established that killing is inhumane and cruel. Is it any different if it's controlled by the government? This "closure" we are talking about; isn't it simply revenge? Aren't we just as evil for supporting the death of another human being, no matter how cruel they were or how many people they've killed?

[Whisper]

Robert Pickton should have never left that pig farm alive
He's one of the worst serial killers in my nations history
he's raped, tortured, murdered and then feed 26 girls to pigs. Those are the ones that we can confirm but there are allot of half skeletons all over his farm the estimated number is over double that

right now he's sitting comfortably in a nice cell appealing his sentence, costing yet more tax dollars

the RCMP should have killed him on site

Vince Weiguang Li out of the blue for no reason stabbed Tim McLean who was quietly sleeping next to him on a greyhound bus anywhere between 50 to 60 times, he then proceeded to decapitate him and ate chunks of his raw flesh. He was only 22yrs old, with a family.

Hes also sitting comfortably in prison


Canada could use a death sentence
Or at least some cops with balls
they wont kill these assholes but they'll tazz the fuck out of some lost dude at an airport

[Tiberius]

No one every said that we want to "put them out of their misery." In fact, I'd love it if we did things like hook criminals testicles up to a power grid and let them roast to death- talk about a shocking experience. It's cheap, painful, and very effective. However, some might consider such methods like I just listed as "cruel and inhumane."

[Sage]

However, some might consider such methods like I just listed as "cruel and inhumane."

And you wouldn't?

[theOperaGhost]

Thomas, all I can say is some people can't be rehabilitated.

[INFERNO]

Robert Pickton should have never left that pig farm alive
He's one of the worst serial killers in my nations history
he's raped, tortured, murdered and then feed 26 girls to pigs. Those are the ones that we can confirm but there are allot of half skeletons all over his farm the estimated number is over double that

right now he's sitting comfortably in a nice cell appealing his sentence, costing yet more tax dollars

the RCMP should have killed him on site

Vince Weiguang Li out of the blue for no reason stabbed Tim McLean who was quietly sleeping next to him on a greyhound bus anywhere between 50 to 60 times, he then proceeded to decapitate him and ate chunks of his raw flesh. He was only 22yrs old, with a family.

Hes also sitting comfortably in prison


Canada could use a death sentence
Or at least some cops with balls
they wont kill these assholes but they'll tazz the fuck out of some lost dude at an airport

Vince Li was a different issue because of the possible schizophrenia he had and so his actions were likely impaired. I haven't paid a lot of attention to his story but I assumed it went along the lines of NCRMD.

No one every said that we want to "put them out of their misery." In fact, I'd love it if we did things like hook criminals testicles up to a power grid and let them roast to death- talk about a shocking experience. It's cheap, painful, and very effective. However, some might consider such methods like I just listed as "cruel and inhumane."

Ah, there we go, with thinking like that we'll regress back to the Medieval times in no time. If we're lucky we'll regress a bit before then. Just imagine it, if the current death sentence can be witnessed by certain people, I'm assuming this torture will be allowed to be watched also. So now that we're encouraging torture, possibly also for criminals who aren't sentenced to life in prison, then imagine how society will be. Sure it may be a nice deterrent but it's going to backfire and there's going to be a massive clusterfuck. As for the legal and international issues on it, well, that's going to be an enormous clusterfuck so much so that I'd rather not think about it if it actually was successful.

It'll be like a mixture of the Jetsons and Medieval times; having amazing technology compared to the Medieval times and yet, applying Medieval times practices. Might as well give science the boot and bring in the dominating Church just to make the image complete. Or perhaps we could be original and while we're along the lines of torturing people for petty purposes, might as well just boot the ethics books because let's be honest, those would be out if that happened. So with that out, then perhaps we can have science doing all the nice unethical experiments (many of which would be somewhat useful) just to counter it with the barbaric society we'd have. Sounds peachy doesn't it?

[Whisper]

Vince Li was a different issue because of the possible schizophrenia he had and so his actions were likely impaired. I haven't paid a lot of attention to his story but I assumed it went along the lines of NCRMD.
I don't give a flying fuck if hes a schizophrenic, you could argue that Hitler had mental problems that doesn't excuse their actions. Anybody, ANYBODY that does anything like that is fucked in the head, i'm a psych major, you don't need a psych evaluation for them, its pretty cut and dry, the specifics aren't the issue nor are they significant, the actions are. He murdered someone in cold blood in a truly horrific manner and then relished in it and desecrated the body.

What he did is inexcusable PERIOD. He should have been shot like a dog the minute RCMP responded to the scene.

[INFERNO]

I don't give a flying fuck if hes a schizophrenic, you could argue that Hitler had mental problems that doesn't excuse their actions. Anybody, ANYBODY that does anything like that is fucked in the head, i'm a psych major, you don't need a psych evaluation for them, its pretty cut and dry, the specifics aren't the issue nor are they significant, the actions are. He murdered someone in cold blood in a truly horrific manner and then relished in it and desecrated the body.

What he did is inexcusable PERIOD. He should have been shot like a dog the minute RCMP responded to the scene.

Good, if you're a psych major, then you'll know exactly what NCRMD is and the very reason why it is in effect. I'm not denying that he was "fucked in the head", however, saying he doesn't need a psych evaluation from him, especially coming from a psych major is something I thought I'd never hear. Psych evaluations aren't done merely to determine the diagnosis and course of treatment, it's done using various risk assessment methods to know the possible risk the individual poses and how to manage that risk (other than using a chunk of metal entering the brain). Things like the HCR-20, VRAG, ICT, Static-99, LSI-R, PCL-R/PCL-YV/PCL-SV, etc..., they're risk assessment tools meant for that very reason. We're through with shooting someone because they're odd, although I guess that's an incorrect statement on my part. The correct one would be SOME are past such primitive acts.

I'd expect a psych major to at least take a more scientific view, even if they don't approve of the person's actions. But I'm curious though, why are you a psych major if you clearly don't give two shits about the behavior of people, especially when the behavior impairs them to such a degree?

You're right, what he did is horrible, however, in this day and age with the advancing science, specifically for psychology, psychiatry and pharmacology, we don't simply resort to shooting someone down like a dog if they've done something horrible like what Li did.

I suppose though that you're also unaware of the laws that are in existence. Police don't show up to a scene, see that someone killed someone and say "hey, let's shoot him now boys". Sure that may make things a lot simpler but that is exactly what we're trying to steer away from. This too I'd expect from a psych major.

[Appleton]

I think it makes you have a different point of view on punishment when you've been the victim. The person I'm referring to took the easy way out and killed himself before his trial. He got off easy and I was left with even more anger that he escaped whatever punishment was awaiting him. Granted he wouldn't have gotten the death penalty but was looking at life in prison. To me, life in prison would have been way too good for him. I would have loved to see him be put to death for what he did. I'm not sorry that it may offend you, it's just my point of view, just as some of your points of view are against putting criminals to death. They don't offend me, they are just your views.

[INFERNO]

I think it makes you have a different point of view on punishment when you've been the victim. The person I'm referring to took the easy way out and killed himself before his trial. He got off easy and I was left with even more anger that he escaped whatever punishment was awaiting him. Granted he wouldn't have gotten the death penalty but was looking at life in prison. To me, life in prison would have been way too good for him. I would have loved to see him be put to death for what he did. I'm not sorry that it may offend you, it's just my point of view, just as some of your points of view are against putting criminals to death. They don't offend me, they are just your views.

I'm going to assume you're referring this to me.

You don't need to be sorry about your view and no, it has not offended me because whatever happened to you, you're reacting out of emotions. Also, as you mentioned, you were a victim and it's not unreasonable to feel a form of revenge would be in order. I sympathize with you on this.

[Appleton]

Oh no...actually i wasnt referring to you..just in general. thanks for understanding. :) thanks.

[Whisper]

Good, if you're a psych major, then you'll know exactly what NCRMD is and the very reason why it is in effect.
That's actually more to do with criminology but ya I know, not criminally responsible by reason of mental disorder.
Are you fucking with me? this isn't a minor case


I'm not denying that he was "fucked in the head", however, saying he doesn't need a psych evaluation from him, especially coming from a psych major is something I thought I'd never hear.
Thats your opinion on the matter I don't really care. There should be no treatment. He should have been killed. I've known and interacted with many schizophrenics in my life, i've seen some that hit sometimes, but this. Negative, somethings are unforgivable i don't care what your state of mind is.


Psych evaluations aren't done merely to determine the diagnosis and course of treatment, it's done using various risk assessment methods to know the possible risk the individual poses Eats. People.

and how to manage that risk (other than using a chunk of metal entering the brain). short drop n a sudden stop?

Things like the HCR-20, VRAG, ICT, Static-99, LSI-R, PCL-R/PCL-YV/PCL-SV, etc... I may be training in this feild and you obviously are as well or have previous knowledge of it. But not everybody on this site does so lets put the word-a-day calender back in the drawer and stop being rude.

they're risk assessment tools meant for that very reason. We're through with shooting someone because they're odd, although I guess that's an incorrect statement on my part. The correct one would be SOME are past such primitive acts.
No we'd rather put them in a tiny cell for life to satisfy our morals
The courts don't need to be dealing with his crap anymore than they do Roberts.

I'd expect a psych major to at least take a more scientific view, even if they don't approve of the person's actions. But I'm curious though, why are you a psych major if you clearly don't give two shits about the behavior of people, especially when the behavior impairs them to such a degree?
You know nothing about me, nor my reasonings so shush

You're right, what he did is horrible, however, in this day and age with the advancing science, specifically for psychology, psychiatry and pharmacology, we don't simply resort to shooting someone down like a dog if they've done something horrible like what Li did.
No we spend copious amounts of cash and recourses on them through courts and prisons and "treatment" making sure he's okay while children die of starvation on our very streets. Alllllllot of money being spent on him, yet nothing really for the victims family. I can think of many other areas where as a tax payer I'd rather it be spent.

I suppose though that you're also unaware of the laws that are in existence.
I suppose your heads so far up your ass you get to taste the corn twice.

Police don't show up to a scene, see that someone killed someone and say "hey, let's shoot him now boys".
You haven't been to YVR have you? "don't tazz me bro" lawl
No, they stand around, don't even bother to properly secure the bus (they were guarding ONE SIDE of the fucking bus) and only when they herd a TON of noise because psycho wasn't being very graceful did they realize he had escaped out the other side. THEN they arrested him. HOURS after it had started, of which a good portion of the time he spent cutting the body up and showing off the head some more because you know craft time is important.


Sure that may make things a lot simpler but that is exactly what we're trying to steer away from.
Change isn't always a good thing. Sometimes, theres to much bureaucracy.

This too I'd expect from a psych major.
I'd expect you to have died from oxygen deprivation by now
Ya learn new things everyday


See i hate debates.
so much anger.
Tea?

[INFERNO]

That's actually more to do with criminology but ya I know, not criminally responsible by reason of mental disorder.
Are you fucking with me? this isn't a minor case

I never said it was a minor case and no I'm not fucking with you. I mentioned NCRMD because it's an alternative other than letting Li go free, tossing him in jail or killing him. It's the more ethic or morally right way to approach it.


Thats your opinion on the matter I don't really care. There should be no treatment. He should have been killed. I've known and interacted with many schizophrenics in my life, i've seen some that hit sometimes, but this. Negative, somethings are unforgivable i don't care what your state of mind is.

Alright, let me ask you this. Where do you draw the line between who gets killed due to unusual behavior and who doesn't? You said you've interacted with people who have schizophrenia and do you think the non-violent ones deserve treatment? If so, then why and where do you draw the line as to where they don't get treatment?


I may be training in this feild and you obviously are as well or have previous knowledge of it. But not everybody on this site does so lets put the word-a-day calender back in the drawer and stop being rude.

True, not everyone may know the terms, however, I'm debating currently with you and since you know what they are, we can use the proper terminology.

"Are you fucking with me?", "That's your opinion on the matter and I don't really care",
"I suppose your heads so far up your ass you get to taste the corn twice" and "
I'd expect you to have died from oxygen deprivation by now". You'll notice I haven't given any statements anywhere near as rude to you so why you're reacting with such hostility I'm not sure why. Ontop of that, you're accusing me of being rude and not yourself? Don't kid yourself, if I'm to be accused by you of being rude, then you are also.


No we'd rather put them in a tiny cell for life to satisfy our morals
The courts don't need to be dealing with his crap anymore than they do Roberts.

Who is Roberts?


You know nothing about me, nor my reasonings so shush

That quote was not in regards to your reasoning, it was in regards to your conclusion or your overall view and what I would have expected. Nothing in that has to do with your reasoning, however, I'm asking for your reasoning now.


No we spend copious amounts of cash and recourses on them through courts and prisons and "treatment" making sure he's okay while children die of starvation on our very streets. Alllllllot of money being spent on him, yet nothing really for the victims family. I can think of many other areas where as a tax payer I'd rather it be spent.

Agreed, the resources could be allocated elsewhere and the victims generally don't get anywhere near as much attention as they should. But part of this is due to the budget that's given to the mental health sector, both clinically and for research. The kids on the street in poverty is a separate issue altogether.


I suppose your heads so far up your ass you get to taste the corn twice.

Indeed I do.


You haven't been to YVR have you? "don't tazz me bro" lawl
No, they stand around, don't even bother to properly secure the bus (they were guarding ONE SIDE of the fucking bus) and only when they herd a TON of noise because psycho wasn't being very graceful did they realize he had escaped out the other side. THEN they arrested him. HOURS after it had started, of which a good portion of the time he spent cutting the body up and showing off the head some more because you know craft time is important.

What's YVR?


Change isn't always a good thing. Sometimes, theres to much bureaucracy.

Agreed.


I'd expect you to have died from oxygen deprivation by now
Ya learn new things everyday

I can hold my breath for a long time.


See i hate debates.
so much anger.
Tea?

The anger isn't always equal from both sides.

Sure, I'll have some tea. Want a biscuit or cookie?