10 year old boy refuses to say the pledge

[IowaBoy]

http://www.arktimes.com/articles/articleviewer.aspx?ArticleID=2f5d7a3b-c72a-446b-8d20-3823aa79c021

[Bougainvillea]

That kid is badass.

[The Batman]

Will Phillips isn't like other boys his age.

For one thing, he's smart. Scary smart. A student in the West Fork School District in Washington County, he skipped a grade this year, going directly from the third to the fifth. When his family goes for a drive, discussions are much more apt to be about Teddy Roosevelt and terraforming Mars than they are about Spongebob Squarepants and what's playing on Radio Disney.

It was during one of those drives that the discussion turned to the pledge of allegiance and what it means. Laura Phillips is Will's mother. “Yes, my son is 10,” she said. “But he's probably more aware of the meaning of the pledge than a lot of adults. He's not just doing it rote recitation. We raised him to be aware of what's right, what's wrong, and what's fair.”

Will's family has a number of gay friends. In recent years, Laura Phillips said, they've been trying to be a straight ally to the gay community, going to the pride parades and standing up for the rights of their gay and lesbian neighbors. They've been especially dismayed by the effort to take away the rights of homosexuals – the right to marry, and the right to adopt. Given that, Will immediately saw a problem with the pledge of allegiance.

“I've always tried to analyze things because I want to be lawyer,” Will said. “I really don't feel that there's currently liberty and justice for all.”

After asking his parents whether it was against the law not to stand for the pledge, Will decided to do something. On Monday, Oct. 5, when the other kids in his class stood up to recite the pledge of allegiance, he remained sitting down. The class had a substitute teacher that week, a retired educator from the district, who knew Will's mother and grandmother. Though the substitute tried to make him stand up, he respectfully refused. He did it again the next day, and the next day. Each day, the substitute got a little more cross with him. On Thursday, it finally came to a head. The teacher, Will said, told him that she knew his mother and grandmother, and they would want him to stand and say the pledge.

“She got a lot more angry and raised her voice and brought my mom and my grandma up,” Will said. “I was fuming and was too furious to really pay attention to what she was saying. After a few minutes, I said, ‘With all due respect, ma'am, you can go jump off a bridge.' ”

Will was sent to the office, where he was given an assignment to look up information about the flag and what it represents. Meanwhile, the principal called his mother.

“She said we have to talk about Will, because he told a sub to jump off a bridge,” Laura Phillips said. “My first response was: Why? He's not just going to say this because he doesn't want to do his math work.”

Eventually, Phillips said, the principal told her that the altercation was over Will's refusal to stand for the pledge of allegiance, and admitted that it was Will's right not to stand. Given that, Laura Phillips asked the principal when they could expect an apology from the teacher. “She said, ‘Well I don't think that's necessary at this point,' ” Phillips said.

After Phillips put a post on the instant-blogging site twitter.com about the incident, several of her friends got angry and alerted the news media. Meanwhile, Will Phillips still refuses to stand during the pledge of allegiance. Though many of his friends at school have told him they support his decision, those who don't have been unkind, and louder.

“They [the kids who don't support him] are much more crazy, and out of control and vocal about it than supporters are.”

Given that his protest is over the rights of gays and lesbians, the taunts have taken a predictable bent. “In the lunchroom and in the hallway, they've been making comments and doing pranks, and calling me gay,” he said. “It's always the same people, walking up and calling me a gaywad.”

Even so, Will said that he can't foresee anything in the near future that will make him stand for the pledge. To help him deal with the peer pressure, his parents have printed off posts in his support on blogs and websites. “We've told him that people here might not support you, but we've shown him there are people all over that support you,” Phillips said. “It's really frustrating to him that people are being so immature.”

At the end of our interview, I ask young Will a question that might be a civics test nightmare for your average 10-year-old. Will's answer, though, is good enough — simple enough, true enough — to give me a little rush of goose pimples. What does being an American mean?

“Freedom of speech,” Will says, without even stopping to think. “The freedom to disagree. That's what I think pretty much being an American represents.”

____________

Please post atleast part of the article with the link.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

good on the kid!

[MacMilker]

w00t w00t will hes a smarty pantsy haha i enjoyed reading that

[Sage]

A true gentleman and scholar.

[Kahn]

I have refused to say the pledge before and got sent to the office. I believe it started due to the Soviet and United States tensions and the United States started spreading propaganda of a Communist regime rising in the United States and saying the pledge stated you were a true citizen.

Just common knowledge. I am not sure it is true but I have heard about it and read a little about post world war 2.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

actually, in relation to the post above me, the US accused russia of indoctronation of its children, when they made their kids say the pledge and sing the national anthem every day.

[XxHaViiK]

I'd like to befriend that kid, we share very similar opinions and I agree with pretty much everything. Smart.

[drumir93]

I don't see what the big deal is on either side. I never stand or say the pledge. Not because of gay rights (which I fully believe in), but because it's one of the least American things in this nation. It makes you say you believe in god, makes you conform to what all others are doing, and it wreaks of fascism.

[Rainstorm]

Glad the kid is standing by his decision.

[Aspiringanonymous]

That was deeply inspiring.

[Giles]

I'm so glad I don't live in America.

[ShatteredWings]

I have refused to say the pledge before and got sent to the office.
Legally, you could have raised shit for that.


I flat out refuse to say the pledge.

Why?
Come on. We're pledging to a nation under a god, that the government can't enforce because we've got chruch/state seperation (also, 'under god' is newer), and frankly, they can't make me. They can't make me stand, they can't make me respect a fucking thing of fabric

[klep]

that kids my hero :yes:

[Tiberius]

I haven't been reciting the pledge since January 20th, 2009, and I won't until Obama is removed from office or until Jan. 20th, 2012.

[TheKingDavis]

how did I know I would be the stick in the mud in this thread?

Anyway...

saying the pledge isnt just what has been said, but its thanking our veterans who have died for us, they gave their lives so we can have the rights that we currently have

think of the people who gave their lives so you can sit there and not say the pledge, it isnt all about God

[sebbie]

how did I know I would be the stick in the mud in this thread?

Anyway...

saying the pledge isnt just what has been said, but its thanking our veterans who have died for us, they gave their lives so we can have the rights that we currently have

think of the people who gave their lives so you can sit there and not say the pledge, it isnt all about God


The very same people who you mention fought and died so that freedom of speech exists in America, surely he is just using that right when he disagrees.

[TheKingDavis]

The very same people who you mention fought and died so that freedom of speech exists in America, surely he is just using that right when he disagrees.

Think a little deeper USING or ABUSING

[AllThatIsLeft]

Good on the kid.
I bet you, he'll be an important figure in the future.

[Kahn]

actually, in relation to the post above me, the US accused russia of indoctronation of its children, when they made their kids say the pledge and sing the national anthem every day.
Really? I didn't know that part of the story. I am sure mine is true because I have heard of it and spoke of it many different times. But it seems I learn something new everyday. Thank you for pointing that out Mr. Duck ;).

[drumir93]

how did I know I would be the stick in the mud in this thread?

Anyway...

saying the pledge isnt just what has been said, but its thanking our veterans who have died for us, they gave their lives so we can have the rights that we currently have

think of the people who gave their lives so you can sit there and not say the pledge, it isnt all about God

One of those rights they gave us was the right to stand up for our opinions in manners such as this.
I think refusing to say the pledge can be a very patriotic thing, it is an excellent way to practice your freedom of expression.

[Strength]

If your not going to say the pledge, get out of the country. you're basically insulting it.

[drumir93]

If your not going to say the pledge, get out of the country. you're basically insulting it.

Not at all. In the united states when people criticize things about the country it's usually because we love our country and we want it to live up to it's potential. Which we don't see it doing.
Of course for many different reasons.

[fohawk]

that kid is awesome i want to meet him i am all for gay rights woooo

[The Batman]

I really don't see all the hype in it. He's not the first kid to refuse to say the pledge.

[Kahn]

Like I said. I haven't said the pledge and I got sent down to the principals. I thought one of this countries principals was "Freedom of Speech"?

[Kaius]

Smart and well mannered kid, His parents should be proud

[sebbie]

Think a little deeper USING or ABUSING

I thought a little deeper and I came to the conclusion that he is

USING

He does not agree with it due to the principles that are in the original article so he is USING his right to abstain from taking part in saying the pledge.

[Suicune]

That kid could be a president! O_O

[drumir93]

That kid could be a president! O_O

If our standards have really gotten that low it explains a lot about the last half-century.

I still, seriously don't understand why this is a big deal. Thousands of kids in the U.S. do this everyday.
Me and many others on this forum are some of them.

[Sage]

I still, seriously don't understand why this is a big deal. Thousands of kids in the U.S. do this everyday.

It's why.

[Sapphire]

saying the pledge isnt just what has been said, but its thanking our veterans who have died for us, they gave their lives so we can have the rights that we currently have

think of the people who gave their lives so you can sit there and not say the pledge, it isnt all about GodYou don't have to stand and recite a religious pledge to think of and respect those who have died for your nation.

Sebbie is right in saying that this kid (and all others who don't say the pledge) are simply exercising their right to freedom of speech.

I really don't see all the hype in it. He's not the first kid to refuse to say the pledge.
But I'll bet my boots that this is the first 10 year old child who has done it for such legitimate reasons after his own, individual contemplation on the topic.

[TheKingDavis]

Our generation is losing alot of respect, think back, not saying the pledge would insult many people. But now our generation is pushing their rights as far as they can, it takes less than 30 seconds to say that pledge, if you cant take 30 seconds out of your life, why should our soldiers risk theirs to save your pathetic life?

[Sapphire]

Our generation is losing alot of respect, think back, not saying the pledge would insult many people. But now our generation is pushing their rights as far as they can, it takes less than 30 seconds to say that pledge, if you cant take 30 seconds out of your life, why should our soldiers risk theirs to save your pathetic life?You do not need to say a religious pledge to show respect to the soldiers who have died for your country.

In this country, we don't say a pledge to the country or to God.
But we show our respect for soldiers (past and present) who have died protecting the people of this country and of the world as a whole each year on the Sunday closest to 11th November. We do this with the poppy appeal - donations to the British Legion are given in return for poppies to pin to items of clothing - ceremonies across the country and a minute silence - to remember and reflect on how these people fought and died so we could be a free nation.

[TheKingDavis]

You do not need to say a religious pledge to show respect to the soldiers who have died for your country.

In this country, we don't say a pledge to the country or to God.
But we show our respect for soldiers (past and present) who have died protecting the people of this country and of the world as a whole each year on the Sunday closest to 11th November. We do this with the poppy appeal - donations to the British Legion are given in return for poppies to pin to items of clothing - ceremonies across the country and a minute silence - to remember and reflect on how these people fought and died so we could be a free nation.

Considering its ONE day out of 360 days that we thank our vets? umm how about no. We have fathers day once a year yes? but we also say "I love you" to our father (or mothers) often, correct? yes. Then same thing.

And if someone doesnt like God, then gtfo of America, our country was founded on religion.

soldiers die so you can say "im atheist" or "Hell no i wont say the pledge"
THEY DIE to give YOU that right!! YOU! And so many people abuse the right, life is not something to be taken gentle. Life is life, once your body leaves this world, its not coming back.

show some respect people.

[Sapphire]

Considering its ONE day out of 360 days that we thank our vets? umm how about no. We have fathers day once a year yes? but we also say "I love you" to our father (or mothers) often, correct? yes. Then same thing.At least Remembrance Day is specifically for the soldiers who have died and has no religious connotations. It raises money for The Royal British Legion as well, which is something that reciting a pledge everyday doesn't do. It is a way every one can truly express respect for these people as opposed to simply reciting a pledge to remain committed to the country.

Saying a pledge doesn't give even half as much to soldiers (alive or dead) as our Remembrance Day.

And if someone doesnt like God, then gtfo of America, our country was founded on religion.What about the separation of church and state as per the First Amendment?

soldiers die so you can say "im atheist" or "Hell no i wont say the pledge"
THEY DIE to give YOU that right!! YOU! And so many people abuse the right, life is not something to be taken gentle. Life is life, once your body leaves this world, its not coming back.But to criticise or try to force people to say the pledge goes against the rights that these people have died for.

show some respect people.I do show respect and support to soldiers (past and present) and in much better ways that reciting a piece of text, IMHO.

[Bougainvillea]

And if someone doesnt like God, then gtfo of America, our country was founded on religion.

I'm an atheist.

My grandfather was a marine. He was an atheist.

Should we have left?

By saying that Dustin, you're implying that religious activities are supposed to be part of our daily lives.
And no, our country was not founded on religion. Thomas Jefferson oughta slap you in the face.

[The Batman]

Our country was founded on religious freedom not on religion that's why the pilgrims first settled and it's why we are celebrating Thanksgiving tomorrow.

[TheKingDavis]

Go here!!!!

-----> http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=699472#post699472

[The Batman]

Go here!!!!

-----> http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=699472#post699472

That entire thread has a different topic than this one don't advertise other threads that aren't relevant in the discussion it's considered spam.

[TheKingDavis]

That entire thread has a different topic than this one don't advertise other threads that aren't relevant in the discussion it's considered spam.

It is relevant. And its not spam. I brought up veterans. The other is related. Listen to the other one before you judge.

[Kaleidoscope Eyes]

It's still not a discussion of the article, which is the topic of this thread.

It's also against the rules to advertise a thread of yours, either in the shoutbox or by posting links in other threads.

[TheKingDavis]

It's also against the rules to advertise a thread of yours, either in the shoutbox or by posting links in other threads.

My bad, didnt knnothat part, thats my mistake

[Bougainvillea]

10 year old boy refuses to say the pledge
I brought up veterans.

And its not spam.
Yes it is.


I think this kid could be a great political leader, someday.

[The Joker]

Considering its ONE day out of 360 days that we thank our vets? umm how about no. We have fathers day once a year yes? but we also say "I love you" to our father (or mothers) often, correct? yes. Then same thing.

What does the pledge have to do about soldiers? It also talks about God, many people aren't Christian.

And if someone doesnt like God, then gtfo of America, our country was founded on religion.

So, all Muslims get out? Are you a Jew? GET THE HELL OUT OF AMERICA, DUSTIN'S AFTER YOU! Atheist? Leave. Are you different in any way? Leave. Your country was founded on freedom. You are saying that you don't like people who don't like God. They have the FREEDOM to not be a Christian. By the way, I am Christian myself.

soldiers die so you can say "im atheist" or "Hell no i wont say the pledge"
THEY DIE to give YOU that right!! YOU! And so many people abuse the right, life is not something to be taken gentle. Life is life, once your body leaves this world, its not coming back.

If they died so we could have that privilege, wouldn't using it be the best way to thank them?

show some respect people.

You directly said that all Non-Christians should get the fuck out of America.... get some fucking respect for other peoples beliefs.

[CaptainObvious]

And if someone doesnt like God, then gtfo of America, our country was founded on religion.

No, America was founded upon legions of enslaved black people. Go tradition, yeah!

[drumir93]

Considering its ONE day out of 360 days that we thank our vets? umm how about no. We have fathers day once a year yes? but we also say "I love you" to our father (or mothers) often, correct? yes. Then same thing.

And if someone doesnt like God, then gtfo of America, our country was founded on religion.

soldiers die so you can say "im atheist" or "Hell no i wont say the pledge"
THEY DIE to give YOU that right!! YOU! And so many people abuse the right, life is not something to be taken gentle. Life is life, once your body leaves this world, its not coming back.

show some respect people.

This made me so frustrated I can't even think of what to write. This country was founded on many things, one of the primary being religious freedom. And soldiers DO and have died so I can say "I'm an atheist, or " Hell no, i wont say the pledge". It's what makes us different from Nazi Germany and the middle east and I'm incredibly thankful for it. That freedom to say what you believe and express your opinions in a non-violent way is what made this country great in the first place and is why many of our ancestors came here.If you knew a damn thing about this country you would know that much.

[IAMWILL]

Has anyone forgot the pledge?
I, pledge allegiance to the flag,
Of the United States of America,
And to the republic for which it stands,
One nation, under God, indivisible,
with Liberty and Justice for all.
I say it almost everyday, but to be honest I never had thought about it... now that I do, I see how people are against it.
Look though, it was written AWHILE AGO, 100+ years. The words "under God" were added in 1954.
Even if America was a country founded on freedom of religion and speech, 90% of the country believes in God (although 43% of statistics are worthless :P).
It's going to stay the way it is probably for awhile.

That kid is smart though, he knows what he's doing.

[Commander Thor]

I quite enjoy this picture, and I think it fits in with the discussion at hand:
http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pKrzKoyXIiVLyRghxkcOLG_OXH-I2321VOlSmToeg2PdE7xkC-AuZLa4eNtY6ab_m6MQKhno7nj8XkX5qBBoSOQ/519.jpg