this is real art!

[ineedhelppl]

kinse
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/boostin_civic/3653583737_c843b7acce.jpg

deapo
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/boostin_civic/graffit_080509.jpg

noche
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/boostin_civic/noche1.jpg

aqua
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/boostin_civic/4112968967_5a1647ec86.jpg

waldo
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/boostin_civic/3425154752_e9d1305d43_b.jpg

[Quick_Sylver]

Graffiti is a form of art yes.

[ineedhelppl]

absolutely
graffiti is a form of art

[Sage]

It's also a crime and an insult to people who bust their ass day and night for years and years to get a shot at making it into art school. Graffiti makes us all look bad.

[ineedhelppl]

no its an art
people use it as a way of self expression
your probably ignorant like everybody else.
i bet you could go out and do what they do. why because your scared and you have no talent what so ever.

[Kaleidoscope Eyes]

Is it a form of self-expression or are these gang tags? It's vandalism in any case which is part of why I can't condone it. It costs the city a shitload of money to have to keep covering that stuff up all the time--your tax dollars at work!

Some cities have walls designated for graffiti, and I think that's cool because it keeps graffiti to a minimum elsewhere around town while still letting you spraypaint on something. I've seen graffiti which was intended as a mural, and some of it is amazing and really very artistic.

Some of the pics you posted, though, specifically the "deapo" one, as it's just a word with little color or styling or anything, just look like gang tags. In fact, almost any time that you see just a single word painted on, it's symbolic of either the artist or a group they identify with. It's not intended to express anything other than, "i wuz here," as pretty as the colors may be. Unfortunately, that's what most graffiti is, and why it's such a problem for most people. Not only does it look bad for buildings to have random words painted on them, but when it's a gang symbol its even worse. Think of instances in movies and on TV, when a bunch of high schoolers will go to the rival school the night before a big football game, and paint their colors on something. Is that self-expression? Is it art? No, it's taunting the other team and pissing them off. When a gang tags something in another gang's "territory", it pisses them off and can spark retaliation. Tags are also used to mark what IS a specific gang's territory, so the other gangs are warned not to be flashing symbols or colors around there.

No, I'm not being naive and brainwashed by "the man", it really happens. With bigger, more serious gangs, this can be a problem. No city wants the Bloods or the Crips painting their name all over everything, because it makes the whole city look bad and encourages gang activity. My own city has had some graffiti problems with a local gang, and I have to say that it does not impress me. Ooh, some kids from Barry Street were here and tagged the wall. Now I'm REALLY scared to go down there! Let's leave it up so everyone else will know that the Barry Street gang is in charge of this town and we shouldn't mess with them. *rolls eyes*

Painting is an art form. Spraypainting is no different. Graffiti in itself isn't just "artistic expression", though.
[/EPIC POST]

[Hatsune Miku]

Graffiti is one of the hardest arts to master. Theres alot of different kinds of graffiti. The only that are dull and just say a name or something are probably from a gang, like that second picture. But the first picture, thats art. Where I live theres lots of graffiti, and I don't mind it.

[Sage]

your probably ignorant like everybody else.
i bet you could go out and do what they do. why because your scared and you have no talent what so ever.

You do realize I'm studying to be an art major, right?

[kipper]

some of that was quite good though deapo was horrible pro tip guys wanna graffiti practice practice and practice no one wants to see some shit tag if your gonna vandalize make make it some thing the owner wont paint over the next day

[ineedhelppl]

i agree and disagree
yeah that deapo is garbage i put the wrong picture in
for your information this isnt gang related. this is done by people who are well talented artists tired of listening to "the man" and taking their art to the streets where other people will look at it and admire their work. and yes your right graffiti is the hardest styles of art to master. its not as easy as picking up a can and spraying shit. you have to develop a style and can control. do work!

[Kaleidoscope Eyes]

Why didn't any of them paint a picture or write something other than their name? I mean, I could draw my name and decorate it with pretty colors too, stylize it all cool-like, whatever. Learning to control a spray can... it can take a little while to master, but a little practice takes care of that.

The definition of "art" isn't something I'm going to debate in here, but I will say that I don't appreciate graffiti that's just the artists name in a cool-looking style. It doesn't say anything about who you are, or what you believe in, or send a message, or anything. Like I said, it's more like, "i wuz here."

The more mural-like graffiti that I've seen I can appreciate more because it says something. It's got some serious talent behind it (not just the actual painting process, but to be able to finish it without getting caught xP), and it really makes you stop and look. The average tag doesn't make you do that and it's not exactly original. Might be their own original name, and I won't say that individual artists don't have their own unique styles, but the concept isn't new at all. I don't mean the concept of illegally painting on someone's wall, but the concept of writing your street name colorfully and in an artsy way. I'd like to see these artists actually making something, not just leaving their names everywhere.

[2D]

Down this one street close to me there is this one brick wall that must be about 150 feet long. I watched that thing get tagged so much you couldn't distinguish what any of them said.

Then suddenly I saw a woodland scene being worked into it. And now it has a whole forest painted on it; and it's been that way for a year now. Nobody wants to ruin it. I admire that guy for his work and persistence. What he did is art. Writing your name, sign, or gang name is not art.

[Bougainvillea]

You do realize I'm studying to be an art major, right?

I'm also a budding sketch artist for fashion design, so it is also insulting to me.

Jessi pretty much stated my thoughts.

There is a house here that is covered in graffiti. But the graffiti has meaning, and was done by the man who owns the house. THAT is art. This bullshit chicken scratch isn't.

[Sage]

this is done by people who are well talented artists tired of listening to "the man" and taking their art to the streets

YEAH, BECAUSE THE MAN REALLY GIVES A FUCK.

As Jessi said, all of the things you posted are nothing more than glorified "i wuz here"s. I too can appreciate more elaborate, mural sort of things- But that's because those -do- take talent and you would need to know a lot of things about art on paper or on canvas or through some other means before even attempting it.

[ineedhelppl]

everything you guys say is wrong
graffiti is art, its not just chicken scratch. its actually filled in with multiple colors. and there is detail. Kaleidoscope Eyes- do a sketch and post it.
i want to see what you can do

[Sage]

everything you guys say is wrong

This is how you get off on the wrong foot on a forum.

[Kaleidoscope Eyes]

graffiti is art, [...] its actually filled in with multiple colors

Pencil sketches aren't art then? They don't have multiple colors, just varying shades of black/grey. Same with black and white photographs, or sepia-toned ones; differing shades of the same basic color. How colorful a piece is doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the artwork, and doesn't even relate to the definition of "art".

Also, like I said, I'm not even trying to debate whether this is "art" or not. I have not said "graffiti is not art." I believe I even used the word "artistic" in a description. What I'm saying is that I don't feel that scrawling your name on something, no matter how colorful or pretty it is, is so amazingly crazily wonderfully awesome. I, personally, do not think that it's really deserving of the praise you keep heaping onto it.

Kaleidoscope Eyes- do a sketch and post it.
i want to see what you can do

So if I'm not a graffiti artist myself then I can't say whether I like it or not?

Please, stop using "You're just jealous, let's see you draw something," as an argument. I have an opinion, and whether or not I can write my name in graffiti-style letters doesn't make it any more or less valid.

Just becuase I disagree with you does not mean that I feel, "scared and have no talent whatsoever" or that I'm, "ignorant like everyone else." Ignorance has to do with lacking knowledge or choosing to ignore information. Right now, you're choosing to ignore what I've said and trying to insult my artistic ability instead of responding to my actual opinion. You're ignoring the fact that I can say I appreciate or don't appreciate something whether or not I can reproduce it, and ignoring every point where I mentioned that I disagree mainly with the photos you've posted, not all graffiti art.

[ineedhelppl]

i have to give you that one
you are right and you do have a point

[Ripplemagne]

Art or not, it's vandalism. If I came into your house and broke everything in your living room and said I thought it looked better like that, so it was art. Would you say "Oh, you crazy kids and your self expression! Let me bake you some cookies!"? No, you'd call the cops.

Guess what? Someone owns that property getting tagged.

[Brighter.Tomorrow]

Why didn't any of them paint a picture or write something other than their name? I mean, I could draw my name and decorate it with pretty colors too, stylize it all cool-like, whatever. Learning to control a spray can... it can take a little while to master, but a little practice takes care of that.

The definition of "art" isn't something I'm going to debate in here, but I will say that I don't appreciate graffiti that's just the artists name in a cool-looking style. It doesn't say anything about who you are, or what you believe in, or send a message, or anything. Like I said, it's more like, "i wuz here."

The more mural-like graffiti that I've seen I can appreciate more because it says something. It's got some serious talent behind it (not just the actual painting process, but to be able to finish it without getting caught xP), and it really makes you stop and look. The average tag doesn't make you do that and it's not exactly original. Might be their own original name, and I won't say that individual artists don't have their own unique styles, but the concept isn't new at all. I don't mean the concept of illegally painting on someone's wall, but the concept of writing your street name colorfully and in an artsy way. I'd like to see these artists actually making something, not just leaving their names everywhere.

I fully agree. I like my friend's graffiti though: http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/109/l_334b6ecc8e7849e097cddadabab9c255.jpg
It says "Dream Big"

[Ripplemagne]

The message it entails doesn't matter. The same logic can be used to justify the graffiti on the outskirts of Manhattan that says "9/11 was an inside job." Fact of the matter is that it's still someone's property and it's being vandalized. No ifs, ands or buts.

[laurita_21]

i don't really see this as art =/ just think of the people who are going to have to take it off.... :D poor them ! lol

[Kaleidoscope Eyes]

I think the message it entails is what makes the actual work something I can appreciate, not considering what it's painted on. I do agree with teh RippleChris that it's still vandalism, though. Someone has to clean that up--either the owner of the property or the taxpayers, depending on whether it's public or private property that's been tagged.

[ineedhelppl]

okay i agree its vandalism but what about all those old abandoned warehouses that people never use. why not let graffiti writers paint those. some like destroying people stuff but others dont. they like to do it because of the feeling they get out of it. and creating beautiful pieces of art work which they will be known by in the graffiti world. and what about train tracks. people arent gonna go down there and be like oh my god this is affecting our everyday lives.

[The Batman]

They can paint them if they go about the it the legal way. Go and talk to the owner of the building and ask for written permission that way you can take your time and do it instead of rushing through it.

[ineedhelppl]

but owners arent going to let them do it because their going to think its gang related and think its bad.

[Kaleidoscope Eyes]

If someone wouldn't want you painting on their property, which you've just acknowledged that they probably won't, why do it anyways? "I knew you wouldn't want me doing it, so I just didn't ask, I hope that makes it ok."

[Sage]

but owners arent going to let them do it because their going to think its gang related and think its bad.

Maybe if graffiti artists grew up and bought their own buildings, this wouldn't be an issue. :rolleyes:

[The Batman]

but owners arent going to let them do it because their going to think its gang related and think its bad.

Also if you sketch out what you want to draw on paper then show it to the owner letting them know it's not going to be gang related then they are more keen to letting you tag it.

[ineedhelppl]

no no no no no
im talking about train tracks, abondoned buildings, under bridges
who will they ask permission for that? i understand that people who go around tagging on peoples houses are assholes but im talking about other places. who will they ask.
buying a place would be nice but then you wouldnt be out there getting up. making yourself famous. you guys need to be in my shoes to understand what im trying to get at

[The Batman]

You aren't suppose to tag under bridges and train tracks so don't seriously it's not worth the consequences and I don't care about being in your shoes because they are going to walk you straight into a jail cell. If you can't do it legally then don't do it at all and if you see those abandoned buildings you can find out who owns them I think by going to the town clerk or pulling public records of it.

[ineedhelppl]

who says im a graffiti writer myself?

[DarkWingedAngel]

I know what your getting at dude
completely
I am a fellow graffiti artist myself.
I agree that there should be places to do this, there not many but if you look hard enough there are.
now unlike others I get permission, most of the time if i can, But I also do it on houses(with permission), I have done graffiti things in people's bedrooms and made money for it.
now all you gotta understand is, yes it is illegal, and will get in a LOAD of shit if coppers find you doing it. so why not ask so you don't have worry?
It pays to be smart dude.

[The Batman]

You sure are implying it.

[Ripplemagne]

You know. I've heard "you need to be in my shoes to understand" for people who steal to support their children, people who assault someone because their lives were in danger, et cetera. But I don't think I've ever heard anyone say it in regards to graffiti.

Question. Does doing graffiti prevent poverty? Does it cure cancer? Does it put food on your plate? Does it pay the bills? Does it prevent you from dying a premature death? Does it feed starving children in Africa? Does it pay off your gambling debts? Does it pay for your little sister's abortion after that big creepy guy raped her?

The answer to all of those questions is a resounding no. All it does is cost you money (you need to buy the spray paint unless you stole it) and potentially put you in prison. No good comes from it.

Don't say people don't understand your need to vandalize because there's no feasible or justifiable reason for it. I'm sure a magistrate would love to hear "you have to be in my shoes" when you're on trial for destroying Biff's beautiful beach house in Miami.

You're wrong. Plain and simple.

[gone]

All decent, except the second - spray like that is just trash, don't dirty the streets with ratty tags.

[ineedhelppl]

so what if it doesnt feed us or whatever. people do it for fun and because they like to do it. people who do drugs dont do it for the high, because after a while you just dont get high anymore and do it for shits and giggles. some of the art people do is horrible but other stuff is amazing. people dont understand us. and you are right, i am a graffiti artist.

[Ripplemagne]

Then stop bitching about getting in trouble for it because you're doing something wrong. You're like a whiny 15 year old who got caught stealing from the drug store and your only cop out is that the shit splattered art canvas that is your bed room wall depicts some pasty kid with fringed hair slitting his wrists because it's the "only pain he felt he could control."

Give me a break. O. U DNT UNDRSTND ME. IM SO UNIQ. I R SOOOOO ORIGNL. UR JUS OLD ND NVR BEN THRU WUT I HAV.

Shut. Up.

You're like a prom night dumpster baby on speed, getting your brown tap danced on by Roman Polanski at a Clown Dyke Bar. The sheer level of idiocy permeating from your lips ensures that you are bound for years behind bars getting bitch slapped by some 6'5" mamaluke with a tattoo of a gingerbread man on his ass named Wendy. And you'd rightfully deserve it for being such a pissant little prick, who can't understand the fundamental theorem that no one wants their shit destroyed by some pseudo-artistic, disestablishmentarian, "school is for fools", jargon spewing needle dick who won't take "go the fuck home" as an answer.

Did your father play with your balls in your prepubescence? Wait, wait. You're still a prepubescent jolly roger. Did your father play with your balls recently? Is it just that you need to find an outlet to feel like a badass? I realize that no matter how hot the water is, the feel of the slime from his schlong snapping across your jaw the whiplash you experienced from it won't go away, but grow up, kid.

I'm not even saying this to put you down. I'm trying to demonstrate just how ridiculous you're behaving right now with your pseudo-rebellion. Go do something productive with your life and leave peoples' personal property alone.

[Kaleidoscope Eyes]

so what if it doesnt feed us or whatever. people do it for fun and because they like to do it. people who do drugs dont do it for the high, because after a while you just dont get high anymore and do it for shits and giggles. some of the art people do is horrible but other stuff is amazing. people dont understand us. and you are right, i am a graffiti artist.

Oh, ok. So graffiti is like drugs. Well, then, I'm all for it! o_0

To clarify a few of your points, I'm going to start by saying that you do still get high on many drugs even after you use them a while. Your tolerance may go up, but that's not to say that there is always a point where you don't feel it at all anymore.

And HEY. If you didn't feel anything, why would you get any "giggles" out of using it? What would you be metaphorically shitting and giggling over? It's not fun if it literally has no effect. If you don't get high off of it anymore, the only reason you keep doing it is due to a physical addiction. Which is, as you may be able to guess, not a good thing. A lot of cigarette smokers say they don't really get a buzz anymore, but they still smoke. Do they do so because it's fun? No, they do so because the withdrawals are a bitch.

You DO do drugs for the high, that's what is appealing, the effect of it. What else is there to be attracted to, if not the immediate effects?

Graffiti and drugs aren't the same thing, and if you're trying to use this drug analogy as justification for doing graffiti... it's not working. It's not accurate, and if it were it would not make me feel like graffiti was any cooler. No, "Oh, it's just like drugs, I get it now!" or anything like that. I don't know how you think that that's a good argument.

[damn almonds]

can you make & post one that says "Sheila" for me, plz?

sumthin kindsa like the nooche, or aqua. COLORFUL. plz make one and post a pic. thnx.

[The Batman]

can you make & post one that says "Sheila" for me, plz?

sumthin kindsa like the nooche, or aqua. COLORFUL. plz make one and post a pic. thnx.

Please don't double post and also making graffiti is against the law and pictures of members breaking the law are not permitted at all.

[Kitty Purry]

Yes it is art but their is people that bust their ass to live in good places and what this does is ruin the neighborhood. Plus it is illeagal so why do it

[jaynewk09]

graffiti is a form of art and self-expression

[2D]

graffiti is a form of art and self-expression

Way to go captain-fucking-obvious.