SURVEY - a gay pope

[growingjudy]

The way things are going, the church will soon allow gaying. How long after that, do you think there will be the first gay pope?

[Sage]

The way things are going, the church will soon allow gaying.

Gaying is not a word and there's no reason to suggest that'll happen any time soon. There are some gay catholics, sure, but the church itself is still firmly against homosexuality. Besides, what difference does it make? Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't catholic priests and higher clergymen not allowed to marry anyway? And sex outside marriage is a sin anyhow, so it's not like their sexuality is even relevant. Hell, perhaps we may have already had a few gay popes who just kept their secret to the grave.

[INFERNO]

The way things are going, the church will soon allow gaying. How long after that, do you think there will be the first gay pope?

Various demoninations already are allowing homosexuality or at least not being so harsh on it. Overall though, I think homosexuality is still frowned upon for various reasons.

As for the first "gay pope", I don't see it being a problem. First, many of the passages against homosexuality refer to acts of homosexual sex or behavior, not about bottling up one's true homosexuality or being homosexual just not displaying it a lot. Despite this, the church is still against it, which to me shows that overall, the church still doesn't allow it. Second, popes cannot get married and I'm assuming they cannot engage in sexual intercourse (not sure though) so it doesn't really matter what their orientation is.

Also, "gaying" is not a word and judging by how you constructed your post, I'm assuming you don't approve of homosexuality and would find it degrading if a pope was a homosexual.

[nick]

I would think that there can be no chance whatsoever of the first gay pope happening in the future because there will have been many in the past.

[Ryhanna]

I don't know... I dont think they even let gay people be priests/ministers, do they? I don't think we'll have a gay pope for a lONG time, I mean, the world is starting to welcome different types of people - I bet if obama announced the existance of aliens today we'd all be cheering and wanting to meet them. One day there might be a gay pope. But really, we've only just gotten a black president. diversity is only really starting to kick in now

[Patchy]

One day maybe, but I think there would be many gay bashers would try to assassinate him since it's not catholic like.

[redcar]

The way things are going, the church will soon allow gaying. How long after that, do you think there will be the first gay pope?
Ok gaying? No. Please pick up a dictionary and use the wonderful words they provide for you there.

As for a gay pope? Never. The Catholic Church is one of the most conservative organistations in the world. It will never happen. Women aren't allowed be priests, contraception isn't allowed, homosexuality is already a horrible sin. Do you really think they will do a U-turn on one of their fundamental beliefs?

[sebbie]

Well since there is only ever 1 Pope in service at any one time the odds of a gay person being it are already lower as there are less homosexual than heterosexual people. Then you have to consider that the church does not allow the ordination of men with "deep-seated" homosexual tendencies. Therefore if a Pope were to be elected who is gay the chances of them being open about it are even slimmer.

[Modus Operandi]

Ok gaying? No. Please pick up a dictionary and use the wonderful words they provide for you there.

As for a gay pope? Never. The Catholic Church is one of the most conservative organistations in the world. It will never happen. Women aren't allowed be priests, contraception isn't allowed, homosexuality is already a horrible sin. Do you really think they will do a U-turn on one of their fundamental beliefs?

Those are some of the reasons I no longer follow the Catholic church. Some of its crap makes me sick.

As for the gay pope thing, no fucking way. The church will never allow a openly gay man to be pope, or even a priest for that matter.

[The Joker]

Gaying? That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, just because you're gay doesn't mean your whole life is doing homosexual things.

So I'm guessing the church allows "straighting"?

[INFERNO]

just because you're gay doesn't mean your whole life is doing homosexual things.

Agreed. Being homosexual is part of one's identity, as is heterosexuality and whatever other sexualities, it's not the only thing that makes up one's identity.


So I'm guessing the church allows "straighting"?

Damn, that must be awful for people with no hair :lol:

[theOperaGhost]

The Catholic church will very likely never support homosexuality and I can safely say there will never be a gay pope.

The Lutheran church on the other hand has now accepted gay ministers. I can't say if the congregations will always accept them, but the Lutheran church does.

[growingjudy]

I dont understand why it cant be!! Look through history up until today. At first the church did all that it said in the old testimant. Slowly but surely it did away with most of it. It also did away with things that it says in the new testament too. They always felt that if they dont become more liberal they will lose costumers. As it is church are much much emptier that ever. Less costumers, less money, less influence in the world. Nothing is stoping them from changing things.It might not be in one day, it will take a little time slowly but surely. It will work step by step. They might first allow priests and nuns to marry.

[redcar]

Ah now lets be fair the Catholic Church and not bring money in it. They are possibly one of, if not the, richest organisation on the face of the planet. Vatican City - their own little country - have you ever seen what is in there? The stuff they own is priceless and thats just what they put on display.

Money is not an issue with them, never has been never wil be.

[Sage]

I dont understand why it cant be!! Look through history up until today. At first the church did all that it said in the old testimant. Slowly but surely it did away with most of it. It also did away with things that it says in the new testament too. They always felt that if they dont become more liberal they will lose costumers. As it is church are much much emptier that ever. Less costumers, less money, less influence in the world. Nothing is stoping them from changing things.It might not be in one day, it will take a little time slowly but surely. It will work step by step. They might first allow priests and nuns to marry.

Some days I honestly can't tell if you're a troll or just really, really foolish.

[theOperaGhost]

Some days I honestly can't tell if you're a troll or just really, really foolish.

I've been thinking the same thing..

[Sugaree]

Some days I honestly can't tell if you're a troll or just really, really foolish.

I tried to find a picture that could express my feelings:

Image has been removed, please do not encourage bashing.


Believe it or not, the OP PMed me about this before starting the thread. I'll stand by what I said: There can never be a gay pope. Even if there has been a gay pope, they kept it a secret.

[INFERNO]

I dont understand why it cant be!! Look through history up until today. At first the church did all that it said in the old testimant. Slowly but surely it did away with most of it. It also did away with things that it says in the new testament too. They always felt that if they dont become more liberal they will lose costumers. As it is church are much much emptier that ever. Less costumers, less money, less influence in the world. Nothing is stoping them from changing things.It might not be in one day, it will take a little time slowly but surely. It will work step by step. They might first allow priests and nuns to marry.

Less influence in the world? Less "customers"? Less money? You must be kidding yourself. I agree with you that some of the church has indeed changed, such as from the 1400s when Malleus Malficarum was written but it's still quite strict. The church hasn't "done away" with the New Testament, it's still quite powerful and strong.

I highly doubt they'll allow priests and nuns to marry or to have a homosexual become a pope because the day that happens, I'd expect the church to have warped itself inside-out and in no way resemble its former self.

Things do change over time, you're correct, however, I'm not sure what one is more likely to come first: the church changing that much or the Earth being visited by little green alien men and women from another galaxy.

[Zephyr]

Some days I honestly can't tell if you're a troll or just really, really foolish.

I've been thinking the same thing..

I tried to find a picture that could express my feelings:

Image has been removed, please do not encourage bashing.


Believe it or not, the OP PMed me about this before starting the thread. I'll stand by what I said: There can never be a gay pope. Even if there has been a gay pope, they kept it a secret.

If you have a problem with somebody, then you approach them or a staff member about it, not make an open argument about them in a public setting in an attempt to bash them.

Keep this thread constructive or it will be locked.

[MykeSoBe]

Yeah, sure [sarcasm intended] ...

It's bad enough the Eastern Orthodox church curses us because of the Schism. We should not be giving into the Protestants. They have messed up doctrine. Us Orthodox and Catholic don't. Though we have had abusive popes in the past, look at John Paul II and His Holiness Benedict XVI. They are revered more than any American president ever will be.

[Sage]

look at John Paul II and His Holiness Benedict XVI. They are revered more than any American president ever will be.

Ahahahah no not really.

[nick]

Ahahahah no not really.
I agree

[MykeSoBe]

Ahahahah no not really.

Well there was only one Catholic president, John Fitzgerald Kennedy. I think he was murdered by a racist southerner. I might be wrong but that's what I'd come to expect.

Anyways, the Popes probably aren't as revered in America because more than 7/10 of America is Protestant but look at Europe.

[nick]

Well there was only one Catholic president, John Fitzgerald Kennedy. I think he was murdered by a racist southerner. I might be wrong but that's what I'd come to expect.

Anyways, the Popes probably aren't as revered in America because more than 7/10 of America is Protestant but look at Europe.
I'm from Europe, I (and many other people) will judge a pope on their merit, not blind pope worship because of their job. JP II started well and was loved by many people, but as time went on was less and less respected. A man out of all touch with the reality of human and family life, a man who perpetuated and added to misersy, sickness and death for thousands of people especially those in the poorest and most needy parts of the world. A man who ultimately demonstrated and summed up all thats wrong about the roman catholic church.

[INFERNO]

It's bad enough the Eastern Orthodox church curses us because of the Schism. We should not be giving into the Protestants. They have messed up doctrine. Us Orthodox and Catholic don't.

Why is your doctrine somehow better than Protestant's doctrine? Or is it simply because you believe in yours so much you're unwilling to even allow another doctrine to be correct or proper? You should not give into bottling yourself up to a point where you hold yourself and your belief on a pedestle while other beliefs you view as essentially filth.


Though we have had abusive popes in the past, look at John Paul II and His Holiness Benedict XVI. They are revered more than any American president ever will be.

What is your evidence? I'm assuming that since you're very religious, you're going to be heavily biased for your decision and so, what is your objective evidence to support your claim? Until then, your claim is dismissed because you have nothing to base it from.

Anyways, the Popes probably aren't as revered in America because more than 7/10 of America is Protestant but look at Europe.

So your argument is that since America doesn't agree with the beliefs you share (refer to the first quote by you in this response), you're going to point out an area that you believe is in more favour of your belief and use that as evidence? That's like saying "Well the gym teacher isn't liked as much in Qwerty because people aren't into sports but in Yuiop, people are heavily into sports, therefore, the gym teacher is liked". See the ridiculous amount of bias there?

[MykeSoBe]

Why is your doctrine somehow better than Protestant's doctrine? Or is it simply because you believe in yours so much you're unwilling to even allow another doctrine to be correct or proper? You should not give into bottling yourself up to a point where you hold yourself and your belief on a pedestle while other beliefs you view as essentially filth.



What is your evidence? I'm assuming that since you're very religious, you're going to be heavily biased for your decision and so, what is your objective evidence to support your claim? Until then, your claim is dismissed because you have nothing to base it from.



So your argument is that since America doesn't agree with the beliefs you share (refer to the first quote by you in this response), you're going to point out an area that you believe is in more favour of your belief and use that as evidence? That's like saying "Well the gym teacher isn't liked as much in Qwerty because people aren't into sports but in Yuiop, people are heavily into sports, therefore, the gym teacher is liked". See the ridiculous amount of bias there?

I don't say our doctrine is better or worse than that of the Protestants. Us Roman and Eastern Catholics (under full communion with each other) and Eastern Orthodox are different mainly in how we view the Archbishop of Rome (i.e., the Pope). The Eastern Orthodox have many different "popes" under one ecumenical patriarch. We separated with them in an event known as the Great Schism, under the argument of the authority that the Archbishop of Rome has. Other than that, we believe in pretty much the same doctrines, such as veneration (not worship) of the Virgin Mary (known as the Theotokos in Eastern Orthodoxy) and of the saints. I do not consider Anglicans to be Protestants since Henry VIII separated from us way before Luther took off; the Anglicans collectively have their own communion, under the Archbishop of Canterbury (their version of the pope). Well, enough with the history ... I basically believe that Eastern Orthodoxy may have more adherence to the faith of the Apostles, and is pretty obvious in the vestments of Eastern Orthodox clergy ... they look almost like rabbis except with the Cross on their miters/crowns. But for the most part, I adhere to Roman Catholic doctrine, and since we adhere to purer original Christian law, we are, in a sense, more correct than the Protestants and the Anglicans too for that matter. For example, the Anglican Communion believes divorce to be alright, but it isn't, as Jesus said himself that if a women marries with any other man, let alone have sexual relations with him, she is an adulterer. And the Episcopalian Church, under the Anglican Communion, was the first denomination to support homosexuality and homosexual clergy. Many Protestant traditions, especially the newer traditions such as the Assembly of God, completely ignore the original Christian doctrine of Jesus and the Apostles. So it is not in any way on a superiority complex, but based on proof from early Christian doctrine.

You probably think I honor every pope ... wrong. I hate many popes, at least those which gave permission to England to invade Ireland ... because of you, whichever pope you were, we have Northern Ireland a British territory instead of the Irish territory it's supposed to be. I also hate the popes who supported the Spanish Inquisition ... may their souls rest in eternal damnation. But look especially at our deceased Pope John Paul II. He helped convince Poland and eventually all of Eastern Europe to end communism, and improved our relationships with Anglicanism, Judaism, and Eastern Orthodoxy (in other words, they don't hate us no more, for the most part). He was fluent in 11 languages and had traveled 130 nations. And if you watched his funeral, you'd have seen his awfully simple funeral casket, made of cypress wood, the only decoration being a book of the Gospels. Truly a holy man. So now you know that I don't automatically venerate popes?

Americans don't pay attention, or at least haven't been paying attention, to our recent popes mainly because of the high influence of Protestantism and because of the reforms of Vatican II, which, in my opinion, gave the world an excuse not to care about Church no more. American Catholicism is radically different than Catholicism in the rest of the world, and is almost a different denomination. Great examples of this are the doctrines regarding fasting and abstinence.