Zero Tolerance

[Modus Operandi]

What do you think of zero tolerance policies in schools? Like regarding weapons, drugs and the like. My school has a zero tolerance policy regarding weapons, and lists what the state defines to be a weapon and also says that the administrators can call whatever they want a weapon(doesn't actually say that, but that's the meaning of the legalese they use).

Fire away!

[theOperaGhost]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a zero tolerance policy on weapons, drugs, etc. Now...one place this can get in the way is in hunting communities. My school for instance...during hunting season, I bet you 70-80% of the cars in the parking lot (which the zero tolerance policy does cover) had guns in them. Even the principal's son's car had guns in it during hunting season. Is it against school policy? Absolutely.

So, yes, I think a zero tolerance policy on weapons is absolutely wonderful in schools...what do you need a gun (or any weapon) in school for anyway? As for my school with all the guns in vehicles during hunting season...I don't think it was a good thing, however I never felt unsafe since I knew who everyone was and why they had guns in their vehicles.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

weapons and drugs i have to agree with, but my school has a zero tolerance for mobiles and electronics, which means that if you get caught there is no warning they get takem away immediatly.

[Modus Operandi]

I guess more what I mean is, do you think it's better that principals determine what constitutes a weapon, or should one code cover everything,and anything that meets even one parameter of that code is a weapon? here i'm thinking nail files. They're sharp and could hurt somebody, but are they really a weapon?

[Sage]

I have zero tolerance for zero tolerance policies.

[Delusion15]

Of course i am going to go out on a limb and assume your principal is a reasonable guy. This isn't degrassi and he is probably not going to just take whatever you have and call it a weapon to get you kicked out of school. Those rules no matter how much hate them do in fact keep me bullet hole free and safe (think the airport)

and i say they should stay i mean does no one else remember Virginia Tech and those other shootings i am for Zero tolerance policies and they should stay

[Sage]

The idea of zero-tolerance simply comes out of people being lazy and scared and not wanting to actually think about the best way to go for every individual case.

[INFERNO]

I guess more what I mean is, do you think it's better that principals determine what constitutes a weapon, or should one code cover everything,and anything that meets even one parameter of that code is a weapon? here i'm thinking nail files. They're sharp and could hurt somebody, but are they really a weapon?

As much as I usually am all in favour of having a standardized list, this is one of the times where I'm willing to make an exception. However, in doing so, I'm making a few assumptions about the principal and school in general and if these are violated, then I'll say to have a standardized system. So, the assumptions would be that the principal isn't completely paranoid about every single tiny thing, isn't giving ridiculous punishments for even the most minor of things, the teachers aren't completely paranoid (if they were, then the assumption is they'd bother the principal about every damn thing) and that the principal is smarter than all or at least most of the students.

What I would be in favour of would be a principal using the standardized list even if none of the assumptions are violated AND using his/her own judgment (naturally, he/she could go against the list). I'm against generally having one code to cover everything because the students are going to make things that get around the list, cause harm to someone else and a big political and media frenzy will occur leading to the entire list having to be re-done over and over again. If the principal is capable enough as is the rest of the school, then the list could be a guideline for the basic stuff but he/she could use their own judgment in case something is not on the list.

You gave an example of nail files and yes, they can be sharp, however, if it's not on the list, then I'd say it's up to the principal to decide if they're worthy of being on the list. By worthy I mean that although they can be dangerous, pretty much everything can be dangerous, even a pencil can be sharp and thus dangerous. I'd say to have something obscure deemed a weapon if someone uses it or tries to use it as a weapon simply to show that someone is willing to use it as a tool to cause damage and so it should be on the list.

Above I said that I'm only willing to have the principal use his/her discretion if the assumptions are met. If the principal is too paranoid about even a nail clipping being a weapon or if the school itself is too unstable, then I would say to use the list simply to generate some stability because the school itself clearly is unable to. As for the principal not giving far too harsh punishments, to me it shows that the principal is unfit for the job despite how stable the rest of the school may be and so to bring some stability, I'd say bring in a comprehensive list.

However, bare in mind that I'd invoke the list if all or most of the assumptions were violated. If the principal is completely paranoid but the rest of the school is fine, then I would say to have him/her use the list's guidelines of punishments but still allow him/her to have some discretion. I'm also assuming that with this answer, due to the school's stability, they'd be in search of a more fit principal but even if they aren't, better to have a principal who is paranoid enough and if he/she cannot make appropriate punishments, then use the list.

[MDW001]

I agree. If a person brought a weapon or drugs to school that person could kill another person or effect the person's or another person's health.

[Camazotz]

The idea of zero-tolerance simply comes out of people being lazy and scared and not wanting to actually think about the best way to go for every individual case.

Although I slightly disagree when it comes to weapons, I agree in general with Tim. Schools lack the responsibility to make an informed decision based on the scenario at hand and use a standard method of punishment, even if it may make the situation worse than it has to be.