A Wonderful and Meaningful Life Without God

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I just made this video recently, and would like to share my thoughts on the existential issue that theists often bring up about nihilism being a "necessary factor" one must accept as an atheist. I don't think that's the case.

Anyways, watch the video, and tell me what opinions you guys have: is life meaningless without a god? What is wrong with only having subjective meaning? Is Christianity inherently nihilistic?

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[Sage]

Life is fantastic whether there's a sky-daddy or not. Being a pagan is just something I believe, becoming one didn't really make me any more or less happy than I was on average before. And I think there is a sort of nihilism with Christianity and abrahamic beliefs, in that we're all nothing compared to God, which in my view really puts down all the great achievements that humans have made.

[INFERNO]

I don't think Christianity is nihilistic as opposed to possibly dogmatic and ignorant, although this is more true for the believers who are like this, the belief does in a way seem somewhat ignorant and arrogant but ultimately it's the believers who believe what parts of it they want. The believers who look down on others, it's not that they're nihilistic, it's that they see themselves (not in all cases) as being superior for some reason. Nihilism is about not believing in rules or laws or established social structures and social roles. I don't think theism nor atheism requires that but rather that the believer wants nihilism in addition to whatever their beliefs are on atheism or theism.

I think that regardless of whether there's one god or 100 gods or one goddess or 100 goddesses, life still has meaning, it is still subjective. To me, believing in theism or atheism is subjective so regardless of what you believe in, even if it's nihilism, it's still subjective and there still is subjective meaning.

To answer the last question, I think some Christians are nihilistic but I don't think the actual Bible and what is said in it is nihilistic, it's the interpretations that may be contain nihilism.

If anything, I think that believing there's an after-life of heaven or hell takes away some value of life. If there's supposedly a life after this one, which is more or less for eternity, then there's no real need to actually do anything or to try to aspire to anything because you could have a second life. I just feel that it takes away some "natural motivation", which I consider to be motivation to accomplish a certain goal before we're either too old and crippled or dead. With beliefs in the afterlife, this "natural motivation" is gone because once you die, it doesn't matter, you have another life (or lives) to do what you want.

Don't get me wrong, I think that even with the belief in afterlife (or afterlives), you still can construct meaning in this current life.

[Hyper]

If anything, I think that believing there's an after-life of heaven or hell takes away some value of life. If there's supposedly a life after this one, which is more or less for eternity, then there's no real need to actually do anything or to try to aspire to anything because you could have a second life. I just feel that it takes away some "natural motivation", which I consider to be motivation to accomplish a certain goal before we're either too old and crippled or dead. With beliefs in the afterlife, this "natural motivation" is gone because once you die, it doesn't matter, you have another life (or lives) to do what you want.



I don't understand why you think so..

Many religious people, including myself, set much higher goals than usual for themselves in life partly because there is an afterlife in their mind.

Of course what somebody considers to be an achievement to strive for is different.. For most its material wealth & power but to many religious people its more intellectual and spiritual.

[Triceratops]

If anything, I think that believing there's an after-life of heaven or hell takes away some value of life.

I strongly disagree.

I actually find that believing there's an afterlife gives life more meaning and value. The reason for this is because I know that as soon as I die I shall ascend to heaven for eternal life beside God.

Life can be a struggle at times, so knowing that there's a better place up there gives me that glimmer of hope.

[Sage]

I strongly disagree.

I actually find that believing there's an afterlife gives life more meaning and value. The reason for this is because I know that as soon as I die I shall ascend to heaven for eternal life beside God.

Life can be a struggle at times, so knowing that there's a better place up there gives me that glimmer of hope.

I'm more keen to waste my days doing nothing in particular (summer vacation) since I know I have many of them ahead than when I know I've only got a little time to do whatever it is I want (typical weekend).

[MykeSoBe]

One may argue that religion has too many expectations, and may seem like torture, which is why many people don't care about it. My own Roman Catholic church was in the rule of harsh popes in the past, and I agree that our Inquisition was perhaps equal to or worse than the Holocaust.

I myself have to say that the only Christian church which never scared its faithful has been Eastern Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy was the first church, directly descended from the faith of the Apostles. A millennium after the founding of the One, Holy, and Apostolic Christian Church, the Bishop of Rome declared he was supreme over all the other four archbishops, thus was the Great Schism, which signified the birth of Roman Catholicism. But I still remain faithful to Roman Catholicism, mainly because the Apostle Peter himself was the first bishop of Rome.

But think about it like this. Fasting and abstinence actually help us. Self-indulgence is fun, very fun, even I, as religious as I am, have to say ( ...lol), but at times, it has to be controlled. It is important to think of others who are not as fortunate as us. After all, high, uncontrolled self-indulgence can lead to obesity and health problems.

I think that we all were created from one Intelligent Creator, just not as described in the Torah / Genesis / Old Testament. After all, the chances of our Universe being created from an Intelligent Creator are just as likely as from a Big Bang. But that isn't the focus of this thread.

[BuryYourFlame]

True, Christianity does give less significance to man than many people would like, but that insignificance is important. That insignificance gives greater meaning/significance to the fact that God loves us.

[Sage]

But think about it like this. Fasting and abstinence actually help us.

How do fasting and abstinence help anybody?

[MykeSoBe]

How do fasting and abstinence help anybody?

It's like dieting, except fasting and abstinence [from meat] is its mandatory religious version. It does help, even just one day out of the week, or more. It helps us to reflect on those less fortunate than us. Hunger, after all, is a powerful tool.

[The Batman]

It's like dieting, except fasting and abstinence [from meat] is its mandatory religious version. It does help, even just one day out of the week, or more. It helps us to reflect on those less fortunate than us. Hunger, after all, is a powerful tool.

Typically when someone finishes fasting they have a feast which kills anything they gained from the fast.

[Sage]

Typically when someone finishes fasting they have a feast which kills anything they gained from the fast.

Yeah. Way to reflect on those 'less fortunate'. But at least other aspects in the big religions promote modesty and charity, right? Right?

http://www.letsgo-europe.com/Germany/Ulm/cathedral_pan_web.jpg
http://www.hickerphoto.com/data/media/3/granada-cathedral-altar_31087.jpg
http://www.molon.de/galleries/Italy/Pisa/images01/19%20Cathedral%20altar.jpg

No, nothing needlessly extravagant while there are people in need, riiiight?

[MykeSoBe]

Yeah. Way to reflect on those 'less fortunate'. But at least other aspects in the big religions promote modesty and charity, right? Right?

http://www.letsgo-europe.com/Germany/Ulm/cathedral_pan_web.jpg
http://www.hickerphoto.com/data/media/3/granada-cathedral-altar_31087.jpg
http://www.molon.de/galleries/Italy/Pisa/images01/19%20Cathedral%20altar.jpg

No, nothing needlessly extravagant while there are people in need, riiiight?

I like your sarcasm :) and I'll admit that I was cracking up!

[MykeSoBe]

Typically when someone finishes fasting they have a feast which kills anything they gained from the fast.

Hmm, typically my family doesn't have a feast, we just resume our regular daily diet. But then, you know us Italians, we feast everyday! I especially have to be careful over what I eat even though I'm a boy with the best metabolism ever.

[INFERNO]

I don't understand why you think so..

Many religious people, including myself, set much higher goals than usual for themselves in life partly because there is an afterlife in their mind.

Exactly, the belief in an afterlife allows you to have an endless amount of time to achieve your goals. On Earth, you have a finite amount of time and want to try to ensure you get everything you can to be done while you're on Earth but believing in the afterlife allows you to take it easy because it doesn't matter if you don't succeed with your life-long goals on Earth, you have heaven and eternity to accomplish them.


Of course what somebody considers to be an achievement to strive for is different.. For most its material wealth & power but to many religious people its more intellectual and spiritual.

If it's a spiritual goal, then I understand why you'd wait until heaven for obvious reasons but even if it's for intellectual goals, you wouldn't have to really try at achieving them on Earth because in heaven, your time isn't going to run out, it's going to be a wonderful, ideal place unlike Earth, etc... .

I strongly disagree.

I actually find that believing there's an afterlife gives life more meaning and value. The reason for this is because I know that as soon as I die I shall ascend to heaven for eternal life beside God.

The issue though is that you'll have ETERNAL life beside god so there's no time constraints, you can do whatever you want and have it work out for you perfectly or almost perfectly. As long as your life on Earth is good enough to get into heaven, then in heaven you have eternity to do everything you want. If you try to do your goals on Earth but fail over and over, then you can just stop trying those goals and wait to do them in heaven.

I'm not seeing how it gives more meaning and value to life.


Life can be a struggle at times, so knowing that there's a better place up there gives me that glimmer of hope.

I'm not referring to motivation, although I'll agree that it may indeed be a good source of motivation.

[Hyper]

Exactly, the belief in an afterlife allows you to have an endless amount of time to achieve your goals. On Earth, you have a finite amount of time and want to try to ensure you get everything you can to be done while you're on Earth but believing in the afterlife allows you to take it easy because it doesn't matter if you don't succeed with your life-long goals on Earth, you have heaven and eternity to accomplish them.



If it's a spiritual goal, then I understand why you'd wait until heaven for obvious reasons but even if it's for intellectual goals, you wouldn't have to really try at achieving them on Earth because in heaven, your time isn't going to run out, it's going to be a wonderful, ideal place unlike Earth, etc... .


You misunderstand the reason to try hard is BECAUSE there is an afterlife

I suppose the difference is what you believe that afterlife is for, I believe it isn't for things that we have to do on this Earth but for others so in my view of things this life is the ONLY place to achieve certain things

[Sage]

You misunderstand the reason to try hard is BECAUSE there is an afterlife

But one could just as easily say that you shouldn't do things just for the reward that may come out of them. I help people because I'm a nice person, not because I'll get a prize for doing so.

[INFERNO]

You misunderstand the reason to try hard is BECAUSE there is an afterlife

I suppose the difference is what you believe that afterlife is for, I believe it isn't for things that we have to do on this Earth but for others so in my view of things this life is the ONLY place to achieve certain things

Hmm, interesting, I thought you had a different definition of the purpose of an afterlife. What things would you believe one does in the afterlife because on Earth, we can do so many things whether we like to do them or not? On Earth we can obtain intelligence, spiritual enlightenment, materialistic goods, etc..., so what is out of our reach that we can do in the afterlife?

[Hyper]

Hmm, interesting, I thought you had a different definition of the purpose of an afterlife. What things would you believe one does in the afterlife because on Earth, we can do so many things whether we like to do them or not? On Earth we can obtain intelligence, spiritual enlightenment, materialistic goods, etc..., so what is out of our reach that we can do in the afterlife?

Well now we're not debating but rather sharing my views so.. By how I perceive it and believe it

On Earth we learn & rediscover our spiritual being and we try to achieve whatever we were meant to achieve for this world be it purely for our own spirituality or intelligence or some other sort of achievement.

I'd guess ( seeing as I can only do that at the moment ) that in the ''afterlife'' we take on different responsibilities, maybe we are reborn, maybe we become guardian angels of a sort, maybe we continue our lives in some sort of heavenly kingdom though I find that one to be the most unlikely to me at least in the sense that most of us would perceive ''kingdom & heavenly'' put together.

Its a hard theistic viewpoint to explain and you might not get at all since I don't fully get it yet myself seeing as I can't dare to claim that I'm ''spiritually enlightened'' or any more intellectual than the common man.

[Bluearmy]

In disagreement, I don't believe that someone's life can be more shallow or fulfilling because they do or don't believe in God or multiple Gods. That is irrelevant.

I has always found that people with more intelligence have a more complex life with deeper meanings and a wider variety of goals. Were as relatively ignorant people have a simple life with goals that don't stretch farther then their backyard. One could even argue that ignorant people would be happier because their goals are more easily achievable.

[Sage]

I has always found that people with more intelligence have a more complex life with deeper meanings and a wider variety of goals. Were as relatively ignorant people have a simple life with goals that don't stretch farther then their backyard. One could even argue that ignorant people would be happier because their goals are more easily achievable.

Truth.