bann on public smoking

[kolte]

Everywere you go now, public smoking is banned. And this pisses me off. What right does the government have to tell me i'm not allowd to smoke in public. People arent even allowed to smoke with minors in the car anymore, people arent allowed to smoke at work anymore. Whats next, no smoking alltogether. I am very angry with the current state of the united states. I'm about to amast a protest if things don't get better. Believe you me, I will amast a protest not only in my town, but in every major city in america, if I don't see these ridiculas laws repelled:

ok, why am i charged 80 dollars if I don't wear my seatbelt, why am i not allowed to drive with my friends in the car with me because i'm underage? What right do school's have to censer my individuality? Why arent I allwoed to invite people over to gamble? Why cant I smoke? Why cant I drink? why cant i smoke pot? Why cant I yell at my neighbors kids for messing around in my yard? Why cant I walk down the stree smoking? Why does my car have to be insured? Why do i have to be lisensed to fish and hunt? Why can the people vote to get out of war? Why didnt the people vote to get into a war? What right does the government have to take my land because I won't sell it to them? Why cant I do this, why cant I do that, what rights am I taking away from people for doing this and that? I'm not allowed to help my grandma carry a sack of grocies to the car that has alcohol or cig's in it. I'm not allowed to by matches, or lighters at the local store. I'm not allwoed to watch a rated R movie withought sombody over the age of 17 with me? I'm not allowed to rent movies or videogames that are rated over a cetin thing?

People haveing more control would be to abolish all thouse FUKING RETARTED laws.

[AC.wAkeBoArDin.06]

But playing devils advocate.... i dont smoke and i like that because im sick of smelling smoke everywhere.... the smell of it burning is ok.... but after its out.... or the smell on peoples breath and clothes... that stinks..... i dont smoke so i dont mind it....

[redcar]

well in Ireland we have had a ban on smoking in all work places for the past two years now. so that includes all pubs, restraunts et cetra. and to be honest i find it absolutly fabulous. if i go into a restraunt i dont now have to be subject to second hand smoke, which has been proven to be dangerous.

now dont get me wrong i have nothing against smokers, but when i am inside i dont want to be forced to inhale second hand smoke.

[kolte]

yeah because people in pubs are so higenic, i think it should be up to the owner of the establishment

[redcar]

legislation like this i think is brilliant, and i am delighted to hear more and more countries introducing bans. it shouldnt be left to the owner of the esbalishment because smoking is dangerous to your health, and owners would naturally keep smoking in them, and to be honest i would prefer more healthy people than happier pub owners.

[kolte]

if the owner of the establishment had the choice to insigate smoking, then the people who liked smoking would be happy, and the people who don't like smoking DON"T HAVE TO GO TO THE ESTABLISHMENT

[redcar]

but smoking is dangerous to your health and causes many illnesses. now if governments introduce smoking bans it may force people to smoke less and even give up, this in turn is better for the health system as the government will not have to pay out large amounts of money to smoking related illnesses, and that the money can be used to fund other areas like education.

[kolte]

what money is the government spending on healthcare in america! our helthcare is not part of government, hospitles are privitly owned and funded with only small government grants. If I want to smoke then I will be damned if some bitch from washington dc tells me otherwise. your fucking car is more damaging to your health then a cig. is. factories are more damaging then cigs. should we ban cars in public areas? should we say no more manufactured goods?

[redcar]

ok well it is a different story here as all hospitals are run by the government.

but come on cigarettes damage your health. they cause lung cancer, among others and are extremely unhealthy. and you cant argue with that. now by governments bringing in smoking bans they are protecting its citizens, exatly what they are supposed to do.

[kolte]

i don't care what they think they are protecting, its my right man, its my right to smoke. If sombody owns a store, its there right to smoke in there and its there right to say people can smoke in there, its not the governments right to say they cant.

[redcar]

it is their right to say it because it is for the safety of the masses, if you want to smoke then do it somewhere like the privacy of your own home, where you are only damaging yourself.

[Aηdy]

i agree with both sides here, people have a right to smocke when and where they want but also its bad for your health and olsop for other peoples (passive snoking)... so im not sure really :S

[[email protected]//]

i think its a great idea...i hate second-hand smoke...they recently banned it in ALL public places in NJ and u have to be twentyfive feet away from the bui;ding if u decide to smoke...its a fantastic idea and im glad

[kolte]

If i have to go to jail every day for smoking, I will, because its my fucking right to smoke were i want when i want how i want for what ever fucking reason and no dumb fucking government bitch is gonna tell me otherwise.

[Just...Will]

I'm asthmatic, and very sensitive to tobacco smoke. I am very grateful for owners of establishments introducing smoking bans. It makes my life a hell of a lot easier. I cannot pass someone smoking by the door of a building without starting to cough, after which I have to use a nebulizer. PM me if you don't know what a nebulizer is. The question is "Why are they infringing on my right to smoke?". My question is "Why are you infringing on my right to breathe and live like everyone else?" It's your own damn fault if you want to screw up your own lungs and your own life, but I don't want a part of it.

[redcar]

If i have to go to jail every day for smoking, I will, because its my fucking right to smoke were i want when i want how i want for what ever fucking reason and no dumb fucking government bitch is gonna tell me otherwise.
yea it is your right, but its not your right to subject others to it.

[kolte]

so don't go to an establishment were people fucking smoke *hits head* doesnt that make since to you?

[redcar]

but why should non smokers be at the mercy of smokers, now remember that smokers are the ones using the thing that is hazardous to health. now to me it makes sense that the smokers are the one that should be made go elsewhere. people have the right to go to any pub restraunt shop, and anywhere they like and have to worry about smoke damaging their health.

[kolte]

what the fuck alex, that is so wrong, nobody should be at the mercy of anyone, the owner of the pub should decide weather he wants his costomers to be allowed to smoke or not. If they can, then non smokers can choose the come or not, if the shop owner chooses to not allow smoking then the smokers can go somewere else to smoke. BUT I WILL BE DAMNED IF THIS LAW STAYS, I"M FIGHTING FOR RIGHTS NOW< THIS IS TO FAR!

[redcar]

granted its your right to smoke, its your body, do what you like to it, but with smoking you damage others as well, and that is unacceptable. ok think about this what about the people working in the pub for example. they would be subject to second hand smoke every hour of every day they work, seriously damaging their health. they need to be protected.

now if you want to damage your body go ahead, but dont damage others. if you want to smoke go outside or somewhere else.

[kolte]

nobody is forcing them to go the the bar that allows smokers though, they can just go to a bar that doesnt good god its not that fucking complitcated.

[Just...Will]

Hypothetically, I like a restaurant. They have a smoking ban. They lift it. I go to the restaurant and CANNOT BREATHE for the tobacco smoke. I don't want to deal with it. I deserve to eat there if I want, and smokers shouldn't force me out.

[redcar]

nobody is forcing them to go the the bar that allows smokers though, they can just go to a bar that doesnt good god its not that fucking complitcated.

but really who wants to be subject to second hand smoke in their jobs, plus smokers are dieing because of smoking. governments immposing smoking bans are protecting everyone. governments are doing what they are paid to do, protect the citizens of their country, so all i can say is tough shit if you want to keep smoking, you will just have to learn to like your new bans, cause they are coming.

[kolte]

I would rather be tortured, rapped and beaten for ever, I would rather burn in hell for all eternity rather then let this country become fucking communist. thats what it's doing, its taking freedom after freedom right after right untill we have nothing! I AM AMERICAN, I AM FREE!!!!! I'm not almost free! My forfothers fought and died for freedom, and it's not smoking I care about, its the picture. What next everyone. WHAT NEXT. The government takes away this and that. they restict this and that. I've really had it. You all may be happily frolicking but i'm noticing it all. YOU ARE NOT LOSING YOUR RIGHTS, I AM. Of course you don't give a shit, its not affecting you, its affecting me!!!!! Its affecting people you hate. YOU HATE SMOKERS. What did I do to you, If you don't want to smell smoke, then don't go to a restront that has smokers. If you don't wanna smell smoke you dont have to. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE. tuff luck. But cars are more harmful to your health. you FUCKING LOVE them. WHO ARE ALL THESE PEOPLE DYING FROM SECOND HAND SMOKE????? where are they!!!!!!!!! Give me names, give me proof that people HAVE DIED. you have all these bastards thinking smokers are just fucking wretches. Were people to god damnit. We get rights too!!!! I'm pissed, I'm so fucking pissed I swear to god the next mother fucker i see that opens there fucking mouth and complains about me smoking, I'm tearing there fucking head off. EVERYDAY! People bitch about smokers! FUCK YOU, its none of your business get the fuck over it. Your whinny complaining ass is damageing to my health. I swear to god! and anti smoker is NOT a friend of mine. If you are anti smoking, then I don't ever want to talk to you again. You want to strip me of my rights!!!???!!! well to hell with that, I won't let you fucking do it. You people have started a war. You think your getting away with it, you don't even know what you have done! If there is a person in this world that wants to challenge the fact that Shit is going down, then bring it on!!!!!!! I love a bit of compitition. BUT GOD DAMNIT i'm smoking this god damn cig. in my car driving down the road, I'm getting maarried to whom i want to. I'm not paying attention to this government anymore! IF it wants to spend money on wars then have at it, but not my money! I HOPE THE GOVERNMENT FALLS INTO THE GROUND, I thought terrorists might knock some since into your ingnorant little heads on september 11th! I thought the Katrina disastor would do something! but you keep on about shit that doesnt even bother you, just so you can do somthing. I'm aborting babies, I'm smoking pot, I'm renting what I want, i'm wathing what I want because this is a FREE NATION and noboy is saying otherwise.

[R_master]

Human Rights:

10. Everyone has the inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected.

even thought there is nothing in the constitution to protect smokers, they are treated inhumanly. They are stuck outside like dogs in cold weather, rain and snow. People like you anti smokers in this thread think less of smokers and treat them like dirt. Thats great if you dont approve but it's there Life and they better be able to do what they fucking want with their bodies. Smoking is in no way healthy but what about alchohol and caffeine, the government should not be able to dictate our lives saying what we can and cant have, so in my opinion chose your poison. I know I would be fucking pissed off if peanuts were banned because people with alergys bitched about it. So tough shit for people happy with the current laws on smoking because it benifits them.

P.S Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, Alexander Gram Bell and Edwin Hubble (all celebrated smokers) the list goes on..

[Just...Will]

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

READ THAT. I'm not against smoking, nor am I against smokers. I am, however, against being killed. I will not be killed because you couldn't kick the habit. I WILL NOT LEAD an impeded life because of your addiction.

You bring a peanut analogy. You are not forced to eat peanuts in any public place. You are forced to inhale second-hand smoke in most public places. I do not treat smokers like dirt. My aunt and cousin's wife are smokers. BUT THEY HAVE THE COMMON COURTESY NOT TO SMOKE NEAR A SENSITIVE-TO-TOBACCO ASTHMATIC! EATING PEANUTS DOES NOT KILL THOSE AROUND YOU!

Kolte, I'm requesting a lock on this thread. It's getting out of hand.

[kolte]

Listen, you are not forcced to inhale anything, if you don't want to breath smoke, eat at another place, but god forbid you take the rights of smokers because people are cryin about it. The people at the work place, should they not smoke, can find another job. I'm going to calm down, I'm leaving this unlocked, this is a issue I am very ralwed about.

[redcar]

kolte man calm yourself down. rite i will point out to begin with that i am not, i repeat, i am not anti-smokers. like if i was i would want it eradicated totally. what i see smoking as, is a health risk, and it has been proved to damage health.

now u will admit yourself that smoking is unhealthy and addictive thing. now i see that by governments bringing smoking bans in enclosed spaces helps peoples health overall. now dont go into this about they have the choice to go to a non smoking place bullshit, cause people shouldnt have to choose, they should be provided with proper health and safety when they go out to do their business.

now clearly we disagree on this, so i am not going to argue with you anymore.

[kolte]

yeah, don't make people choose, they shouldnt have to, I shouldnt have to be FORCED BY LAW to not smoke in a business full of smokers. its a load of bs

[Ravenous]

Good!
It just has been/is about to be banned in all pubs and clubs here.
Which is good, doesn't really bother me much but its unfair that non-smokers have to breathe in all your second hand smoke.
I agree some of those laws are retarded, but some of them I think are important, e.g. not wearing a seatbelt, if you don't you endanger everyone else in the car and yourself.
Kolte that is bullshit, why should we have to go somewhere else, just because there are smokers in the place we want to eat/drink?
I am not anti-smokers, you wanna smoke fine, but I completely agree with a public ban. Its not taking your fucking rights away, its protecting the public.

[kolte]

WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO GO SOMEWERE ELSE? you you you, YOU NOT THE ONE LOSING YOU RIGHTS!!!!!! Of couse you don't care, but I have to GO ALL THE WAY BACK HOME before i can light up. You guys really don't understand. I shouldnt be a second class citizen just because I smoke a cig. every now and then. I'm making noise in my community, my god you better believe it. I'm starting an independent news paper to adress this, I'm gonna talk to the owner of the tobaco store and organize a protest, Its on, its not right. Your not getting it. All I want, is for it to be up to the owner of the establishment weather or not he thinks that people should be able to smoke or not. if you wanna go to a pub to drink, which drinking is proven to kill not only you but those you take out driving home from the pub. oh yes and its all of you people with cars that the fumes eek into the ozone layer eating away our atmosphere and giveing people skin cancer. not to mentnionn the cars creating smog layers over our cities causing cancer, and other very harmful diseases to all those that lay in its wake. Plus cars cause acid rain which can wipe out feilds in developing countries, causeing famine, and the amount of toxins let out of you car ever time you start it is equal to the amount of toxins in a pack of cig's. ouch! ANd the oil runoff into rivers and such from parkinglots and roads has whiped out complete ecosystems! Three of my friends two years ago, got into a car reck and died instantly as I watched from my bus, freakin' out. So I know casualties of the car industry. I only know 1 friend that has died from cancer caused from smoking. But thats not to say the danger isnt there. I see the danger, but I dont want to smoke around you, If I'm at a resteront, I don't care if there smoking section is outside and its 112 degrees. I'm steping outside and smoking a cig. I'm fine with that. If i'm on the sidewalk, thats different, the city owns the sidewalk, they ahve the right to say you cant smoke there. BUt they dont' own our economy, we do, and if you start a business, then you should be able to say weather or not people should be able to smoke on your property. In any case, The way to get around this is to start calling pubs privit property, exclusive membership, and then just let anyone come an go, giving anyone who sicks there hand out a membership card. Store owners will reolize thats they way to do it, and bam, 20% of stores will be privet property. But are you fine with this? Its just making segregation. Your just telling people that you are better then them and you don't care about there rights! You know what, and I know this sounds awful, but I hope you all get lung cancer. That way you will die and quit your bitchen. You don't want to breath smoke, there are plenty of public places that don't allow it allready without the laws. The mall, most fast food joints, an estimated 15% of casual dinners, most stores located in strip malls. You could have thought about yoru argument first too. we wanna be health when we go the the pub and drink! as if drinking isnt harmful allready. Cry all you want, those laws are gonna be repelled, mark my words they will be repelled.

[redcar]

ok i know i said i wouldnt say anymore on the topic but....meh!

you say about making pubs and shops etc, private establishments, blah blah et cetra et cetra, what if they bring in a ban on smoking in workplaces, like they did here? it means if you hire someone, no matter where it is, private or public, it is a workplace, meaning ban on smoking.

yes cars cause pollution, but they have not become as unsociable as smoking, i know in Ireland smoking is no longer seen as very sociable thing, and most people dislike it, see it as unhealthy and want to quit or not be around while someone is smoking. that is the will of the majority of people. anad governments follow the will of the people.

unfortunatly you will have to realise that the will of the people is that they dont want people smoking around them. now i know there is millions of people who smoke, who dont mind et cetra, but more people dislike it, and bans will come in, higher excise duties will be placed on tobacco products, and it will become so hard to do it. that is the reality.

[kolte]

well you know what about 20-30 percent of adults smoke in america and about 20-30 teenagers smoke in america. That means that even though you just have the majority, its just barely there. Black people arent the majority they still have rights. Women arent the majority they still have rights. Hell, I'm not the majority, I have rights. But smokers don't have rights? I'm only allowed to smoke at home now? not in my car, not at my job, not at any pubs or restronts. You don't know how much respect I have just lost for you alex, sombody I thought believed in equality. Yeah, equality as long as you win. But if sombody else gets treated like dog shit by society, then meh, who cares, its not hurting you, in fact you can breath at a pub now, as if you go to a pub in the first place.

[redcar]

i am for smoking bans in workplaces, like we have here, thats a ban on smoking in enclosed places where people work. i couldnt give a flying fuck if people smoke outside, there is plenty of air out there. now honeslty i dont care if you have lost respect for me in me expressing my opinion. all i want is safe clean air to breath and for children, as much i dislike them, i dont particularly want children subject to second hand smoke either.

...as if you go to a pub in the first place.

jsut because i have pissed you off by me expressing my opinion doesnt mean you have to get bitchy with me.

[~Dazed&&Confused~]

I'm for ban of smoking altogether.. It's a dirty habbit.. Costs a bomb so why are people still doing it?..

[Ravenous]

Of course me, you are the one causing the problem by smoking, so why should I have to change the way I do things.
If a pub owner had the choice then so be it, but it is just an inconvience for the majority. You gotta please as many people as you can, and a smoking ban is doing that. Your not a fucking second class citizen, you are just being stopped from damaging other peoples health. Which is good.
Right drink driving is just plain fucking stupid, when you go to the pub, just don't take the car. Problem solved. Cars are a convinience, think how travel would be without cars, or planes or buses. They are usefull, smoking is just a simple pleasure, one that we can afford to change. Are you seriously saying we should ban cars?
but I hope you all get lung cancer. That way you will die and quit your bitchen.
Nice. Thats real fucking nice there.
Think about what your saying man, your talking shit. Non-smokers shouldn't be inconvinieced because of your nasty habit. Drinking is also harmfull yes, but people have the choice of what they subject their body too. You could use that same arguement with hard drugs "you drunk a pint last night, so why not just go skag yourself up?" See it doesn't work.
You have rights, smokers have rights of course they do. But like for everyone, rights are limited.
Life aint fair, the quicker you realise that the better.

***JG*** you obviously don't understand smoking. IT IS ADDICTIVE! Has no one ever told you that?
It is also relaxing, and some people think it will help them loose weight, look cool etc. All of those are false of course.

[kolte]

It was up to the owner's of the establishments untill people passed smoking bans. I'm not damaging anyone's health but my own, if you choose to sit by me when i'm smoking your damaging your own health and you need to deal with that. But we cant even go outside and smoke anymore, we can only smoke at home. AND NO i'm not saying we shoudl ban car's, leave it to ignorance for people to think thats what I'm saying. I'm saying banning cig's because of health makes about as much since as banning cars for health. i love cars, i use them everyday, full well knowing that I'm killing people because of it I love to smoke, I do it every day, but I don't get up in peoples faces about it or anything. I go outside when sombody doesnt want peopel smoking in there house and I stand at least 30 feet away from county roads since the bans in my areas saying no smoking on state property, and since the local and state governments own that 30 feet off the road, I respect that and smoke on my poarch. In fact, the laws not much of a blow to me, but a blow to smokers and freedom alltogether. If your at a bar, then your not to self concious about your health in the first place. If you go to a bar then you shoudl allready be aware that people are gonna be smoking there and you should think, should I go in the bar, knowing that people are gonna be smoking and it could be damaging to my health, or shoudl I make a law telling people they cant smoke in the bar, putting the bar out of business, or pissing everyone off in the bar. Your causing the problems by being a pud, stop being so....whinny and babyish. Get over it, your gonna die one way or another, and second hand smoke is the least of your worries. Those people who die of second hand smoke, probably smoked themselves, probably had hard core exposure for more then 20 years. If you sniff it every other day for 10 seconds its not gonna hurt you.

[redcar]

Your causing the problems by being a pud

actually its smokers that are causeing the problem, and if you think otherwise you are more naive than i thought.

Get over it, your gonna die one way or another

so true, but at least i am not going to die, from second hand smoke.

[Just...Will]

Listen, you are not forcced to inhale anything, if you don't want to breath smoke, eat at another place, but god forbid you take the rights of smokers because people are cryin about it. The people at the work place, should they not smoke, can find another job. I'm going to calm down, I'm leaving this unlocked, this is a issue I am very ralwed about.

Why should I be forced to go somewhere else because of you then? Your arguments can all be turned against you. We all have equal rights. Why should I have to go all the way home to breathe without worrying about my safety and health? Why should I be forced to leave a restaurant because you want to smoke? Why should I have to get another job because you WANT to smoke? The arguments go both ways, smart one.

[~Dazed&&Confused~]

Of course me, you are the one causing the problem by smoking, so why should I have to change the way I do things.
If a pub owner had the choice then so be it, but it is just an inconvience for the majority. You gotta please as many people as you can, and a smoking ban is doing that. Your not a fucking second class citizen, you are just being stopped from damaging other peoples health. Which is good.
Right drink driving is just plain fucking stupid, when you go to the pub, just don't take the car. Problem solved. Cars are a convinience, think how travel would be without cars, or planes or buses. They are usefull, smoking is just a simple pleasure, one that we can afford to change. Are you seriously saying we should ban cars?

Nice. Thats real fucking nice there.
Think about what your saying man, your talking shit. Non-smokers shouldn't be inconvinieced because of your nasty habit. Drinking is also harmfull yes, but people have the choice of what they subject their body too. You could use that same arguement with hard drugs "you drunk a pint last night, so why not just go skag yourself up?" See it doesn't work.
You have rights, smokers have rights of course they do. But like for everyone, rights are limited.
Life aint fair, the quicker you realise that the better.

***JG*** you obviously don't understand smoking. IT IS ADDICTIVE! Has no one ever told you that?
It is also relaxing, and some people think it will help them loose weight, look cool etc. All of those are false of course.
you can always get help...

[kolte]

I want everyone to read a book called In Defence of Smokers by Lauren A. Colbey, and then you can yell at me about the hazards of smoking, or actually, you might question your bitchy additude twords smokers.

"...........On the death certificate there was a line for the doctor to insert the immediate cause of death, and then three lines for "due to". The doctor inserted "cigarette smoking" under "due to". The letter writer questioned the doctor: was he sure the tumor was caused by cigarette smoking? The doctor said he wasn't sure about that, but there were guidelines issued by the American Cancer Society, and that when a person dies of certain conditions and has smoked, the doctor is instructed to list the "due to" as "smoking". In this instance, Ms. Haley persuaded the doctor to omit the usual "due to cigarette smoking", but obviously, this was a rare occurrence. The willingness of the medical profession to blindly observe "guidelines", issued by the Cancer Society generates a continuous stream of death certificates, validating the official line that cigarette smoking causes everything from heart disease to uterine cancer; yet, there is no shred of scientific evidence to validate any of the certificates; they are based on nothing more than official instructions to put down smoking as the cause of death!........"

[Ravenous]

I stick by my points, smokers are the minority, and they are harming the majority, which should be stopped. You can smoke all you like, as your as your not affecting the non smokers who don't like it.
Like said previously, smokers are the one causing the problem, and we are going to sort it out.
I know I am going to die, but I don't want my health damaged unecessarily by smokers. Personally I don't really mind smoke around me at all, but millions do.
I want alot of things, you don't always get what you want. I am not inconviniencing myself, to read this book, just so I can help your arguement. I couldn't give a shit what your books say or how doctors lie on death certificates. The facts are, second hand smoke is harmfull.

[kolte]

prove that second hand smoke is harmful hun, you cant!

".......It turns out that a high rate of smokers prevalence translates, in many cases, to long life expectancy and low rates of lung cancer. For males, in 1994, the country with the highest life expectancy (76.6 years) was Iceland, where 31% of the men smoked. The next runner-up was Japan, where 59% of the men smoked, and life expectancy was 76.5 years. Other countries with high rates of male smoking and long life expectancies included Israel (45%, 75.9 years); Greece (46%, 75.2 years); Cuba (49.3%, 74.7 years) and Spain (48%, 74.5 years).
Clearly, these figures rebut the hysterical claims of anti-smoking organizations. Figures bandied about in this country, and never challenged, estimate that smoking costs the smoker at least seven years of life expectancy. Figures circulated in Europe and cited on Mr. Van der Griendt’s web page, claim as much as 20 to 25 years of loss of life expectancy. But the official vital statistics from countries with high rates of smoking fail to validate these claims. To the contrary, it turns out that some of the countries with the highest rates of smoking have the longest life expectancies. This is important, not only from the standpoint of lung cancer, but also from the standpoint of heart disease. If, as is frequently claimed, smoking leads to heart attacks, the effects should be clearly show up in the form of greatly reduced life spans in countries where a lot of people smoke. They don’t. ........"

[redcar]

proof? the proof is everywhere. check out the Journal of American Medical Association's website they have a lot of info on it.

[kolte]

I did a search and found nothing proving that second hand smoke is harmful to your health, or in fact, that smoking was harmful to your health. I'll have you know that "....despite the claims of the anti-smoking movement, there is no "pandemic" of lung cancer in the United States. In the United States, there are about 2,140,000 deaths from all causes, each year. Of these deaths, less than 120,000 are from lung cancer. Thus, despite what you may have read or heard, lung cancer is not a common illness...."

[Charlotte]

From The American Cancer Society
The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has classified secondhand smoke as a Group A carcinogen, which means that there is sufficient evidence that it causes cancer in humans. Environmental tobacco smoke has also been classified as a "known human carcinogen" by the US National Toxicology Program.
Secondhand tobacco smoke contains over 4,000 chemical compounds. More than 60 of these are known or suspected to cause cancer.
Secondhand smoke can be harmful in many ways. In the United States alone, each year it is responsible for:
An estimated 35,000 to 40,000 deaths from heart disease in people who are not current smokers
About 3,000 lung cancer deaths in nonsmoking adults
Other respiratory problems in nonsmokers, including coughing, phlegm, chest discomfort, and reduced lung function
150,000 to 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections (such as pneumonia and bronchitis) in children younger than 18 months of age, which result in 7,500 to 15,000 hospitalizations
Increases in the number and severity of asthma attacks in about 200,000 to 1 million asthmatic children
The 1986 US Surgeon General's report on the health consequences of involuntary smoking reached 3 important conclusions about secondhand smoke:
Involuntary smoking causes disease, including lung cancer, in healthy nonsmokers.
When compared with the children of nonsmoking parents, children of parents who smoke have more frequent respiratory infections, more respiratory symptoms, and slower development of lung function as the lung matures.
Separating smokers and nonsmokers within the same air space may reduce, but does not eliminate, the exposure of nonsmokers to secondhand smoke.

[Ravenous]

If you really think smoking isn't harmfull then your more ignorant than I thought.
You are taking in tar! and carbon monoxide! These are very harmfull!
Oh and when you think about those stats, Lung Cancer is a pretty common way to die. 120,000 out of 2,140,000. Think about how many diseases there are.
That means 1 in every 18 deaths is caused by lung cancer. Thats quite a few wouldn't you agree?

[kolte]

Smoking can be harmful to your health, but it is highly exaggerated. Of the 2600 deaths per day of heart disease, about 218000 of the overall 949000 a year are caused from smoking and second hand exposure. There are approx. 50 million smokers in America, and about 250 million non smokers. So about 109 out of 25000 smokers will die of lung cancer, compared to 731 out of 250000 non smokers. Of course, this is strange, seeing as how, a very similar percentage of each will die of heart disease. So we can conclude that smoking does not heighten your chances of heart disease related death. Also, despite the fall in the percentage of smokers since the 1960’s, Lung Cancer deaths have gone up. How is this so? If less people are smoking, shouldn’t less people be dieing? This is not so.


“...The most obvious interpretation to be given to these figures is simply that the decline in smoking has not produced any decrease in LCDR's and that, in fact, in most age categories, the LCDR's have gone up...”
“... The United States, therefore, has been turned into a giant laboratory for the evaluation of a cigarette/lung cancer link. If, in fact, cigarettes do, in fact, "cause" lung cancer, we should see a decrease in the LCDR's over the time period between 1961 and the present, corresponding to the approximately 50% decline in cigarette consumption, and the comparable decline in smoking. The problem is, we don't!...”
"...tobacco executives don't deny there's a risk in smoking. In fact they even boast that there's a risk. One of their own employees testified to the Waxman panel that he wouldn't want his daughter to smoke. You see, the tobacco companies have frequently been sued by people suffering from lung cancer who claim that they got the disease from smoking cigarettes. The conventional wisdom says that smoking does, in fact, cause lung cancer, but the conventional wisdom is often wrong and, in this instance there is plenty of evidence that it is wrong. The tobacco companies, however, don't need to buck the conventional wisdom in order to defend lawsuits. The tobacco companies have found it easier to defend lawsuits by saying to the plaintiff "Didn't you read the warnings on the cigarette packages? Didn't you listen to all the warnings from prominent physicians and public officials? You went ahead and assumed the risk!". Back in 1890, the conventional wisdom said that masturbation caused blindness.
Suppose some doctor dared to challenge the conventional wisdom, and advised a patient that the practice is harmless. The patient takes the advice, goes ahead and masturbates and goes blind. He sues the doctor and I'm hired to represent the doctor in court. Believe me, if I'm a good lawyer, I'm not going to challenge the conventional wisdom and say the blindness had nothing to do with the plaintiff taking my client's advice! A much better defense is to cross examine the plaintiff: "Haven't you read books written by prominent authorities about the dangers of Onanism? Haven't you heard the preacher warn about it, in church? Haven't you heard the lectures by prominent temperance authorities about this dangerous vice? You proceeded at your own risk!"
Where smoking is concerned, it's obvious that if everybody who smoked developed lung cancer, we could say, conclusively, that smoking "causes" lung cancer. But we all know that not everybody who smokes develops lung cancer, and we also all know of many people who don't smoke a day in their lives, but none-the-less develop lung cancer at an early age and die from the disease..."
Oh and compare lung cancer deaths to these: The legal information resource ItsMyLife.com (http://www.itsmylife.com/statistics.asp) offers some interesting mortality statistics for the United States. Of the 2,400,000-plus Americans who die each year, over 45,000 are killed in transport accidents. The number of homicides, poisonings, and drunk driving fatalities are roughly the same, at around 17,000 each. Perhaps more surprisingly, a stunning 178,000 Americans die from medical or hospital error every year.

[R&b_Boy]

well in Ireland we have had a ban on smoking in all work places for the past two years now. so that includes all pubs, restraunts et cetra. and to be honest i find it absolutly fabulous. if i go into a restraunt i dont now have to be subject to second hand smoke, which has been proven to be dangerous.

now dont get me wrong i have nothing against smokers, but when i am inside i dont want to be forced to inhale second hand smoke.

I wish day did sumethin like dat here in the U.S.. can't stand smoking

[kolte]

but were do you draw the line?

[Whisper]

Everywere you go now, public smoking is banned. And this pisses me off. What right does the government have to tell me i'm not allowd to smoke in public. People arent even allowed to smoke with minors in the car anymore, people arent allowed to smoke at work anymore. Whats next, no smoking alltogether. I am very angry with the current state of the united states. I'm about to amast a protest if things don't get better. Believe you me, I will amast a protest not only in my town, but in every major city in america, if I don't see these ridiculas laws repelled:

GOOD!!!!!
Just because you were stupid and started smoking dosen't give you the right to harm other people with that disgusting habit.
Smoking anywhere a minor has access to is illigal alberta wide Edmonton Vancouver Saskatoon and a few other citys are smoke free PERIOD including bars, pubs, etc...
I think its brilliant i'm sick and tired of having to hold my breath outside an entrance to a mall because theres all these fuckers puffing away
I'm sick of going into a bar or a resturant and leaving with my cloths just wrecking of smoke
I'm sick of breathing in that filth becuase other people are being selfish shits!
fuck that!!
You wanna smoke do it FAAAAAAAR away from anyone else
prefurably in a small unventilated room

not only that but its been PROVEN good for bussiness
bars are booming because there smoke free now

you want to slowly kill yourself kolte
be my fucking guest
but don't you dare get pissed off because FINALLY your not allowed to harm other people other CHILDREN aswell

[kolte]

oh bullshit, there has been a drop in business in america becuase of the bans.
maybe in canada you don't smoke much, but americans are big on tobacco.
and people need to stop blubbering about second hand smoke.
those people who die from it have had MASSIVE exposure to it for 30 years plus.
your not going to get cancer because you inhale smoke at a bar or dinner every now and then.
cancer is caused by compolsive irritation.
and yeah, smoking causes cancer.
but not in the numbers they say.
if that were the case, then the japanese would be dropping like flies from smoking related death.
and there not.
anti smokers go way to far with smoking being harmful.
yeah, it is.
but anything taken over a long period of time is.
and you say 400000 plus die a year from smoking.
but these are people that died from heart disease and cancer that smoked.
the smoking didnt necessarily cause the cancer or heart problems.
perhaps there lazy life style and eating habits had something to do with it.
stop complaining about something, thats not even a major threat.
instead of banning if from all public places, leave it to the owner of the shop.
its there property anyway.
they are LETTING you go there.
and if they say people can smoke, its not anyone elses property, people should be able to smoke there.

[Whisper]

Even if it can't kill me which it can tis been proven your still missing the point
the majority of people are non-smokers
we find the smell of smoke disgusting
and it sticks to you
seeps through your cloths and sticks to your skin
and were sick of it
We don't want to have to deal with it anymore
thats like who wants to see a 500lbs nude hairy ass walking down white ave
well smokers are just as disgusting
and you have no right to make us breath that filth
or go through that crap in public
You don't have the right
you can yell at me all you want I garuntee you theres no way in hell you will ever make me feel any pitty towards smokers
nevermind agree with them

your(smokers) weak
you can't break the addiction
We shouldnt have to suffer because of that
So you want to smoke GO AHEAD
as long as your the fuck away from a minor and/or public area

[Nexdeus]

once again im going to have to side with koler on the fact the goverment should not be able to ban smoking in privately owned areas like pubs, dining resturants, stores or bars. (1) because its the property owners damn choice because the owner can sure as hell kick you out if he feels like it why cant it be his choice in the matter.


and just so people no i dont smoke

[redcar]

yes but there is a thing called health and safety and if these "privately owned areas" serve the public then they are no longer private. now you say privately owned areas such as pubs, can i ask do you know wat pub is short for? well i will tell you, public house, not private house. now these establishments need to have a certain level of health and safety for their patrons.

like would you accept drinking in a pub with with dirty beer taps? no because its dangerous and the government have identifed that as such, smoking is no different, its dangerous and therefore in public places needs to be stopped.

[Nexdeus]

Okay...i geuss you got a point but i men if you dont like smoking dont go there imean if its about your health then is the food really that good or is your health more important

and if you think they are forcing you to breath in smoke then what about you forcing them to smoke in a designated area i mean even though your choice is healthier what about their choice

[kolte]

Okay...i geuss you got a point but i men if you dont like smoking dont go there imean if its about your health then is the food really that good or is your health more important

and if you think they are forcing you to breath in smoke then what about you forcing them to smoke in a designated area i mean even though your choice is healthier what about their choice

finally sombody gets what the hell I'm saying.
you see, if the owner of the bar has the choice,..... *we don't call bar's pubs in america (burn)* .....owner of the bar has a choice, then nobody is comprimising.
the non smoker knows that if they go there, there will be smokers.
they still have a choice to not go there and enjoy a meal and or drink at another establishment.
if the government forces it, then smokers loose rights.
so this is a win loose situation one way.
and a win win situation the other way.
should smoking be allowed in bars etc, then the non smoker doesnt loose, because he can still go there, or somewear else.
if non smoking is inforced, then one party wins, and the bar owner and the smoker, loose.

[Whisper]

http://www.nlma.nf.ca/nexus/issues/spring_2003/images/image_2.jpg

Heather Crowe, the long-time waitress who contracted lung cancer after decades of exposure to second-hand smoke, has died. She was 61.
Crowe, who never smoked, became widely known as the face of the nation's anti-smoking movement after sharing her personal story in television ads for Health Canada.

In the advertisements, she describes how she contracted cancer from second-hand smoke at the restaurant where she worked for some 40 years.
Denis Choiniere, director of regulations and compliance for Health Canada said Crowe helped to put a face on the grim numbers.

""She had a strong and influential impact for our second-hand smoke campaigns," Choiniere said, appearing on CTV Newsnet.
"She was the figure, the face for the statistics that we've been using -- about 1,000 people every year dying from exposure to second-hand smoke in Canada," he said.

Crowe was diagnosed with inoperable lung cancer in 2002, and she fought the disease with chemotherapy, radiation and steroids before it went into remission.

But she learned last August that she was losing her battle with the disease.
Crowe was the first person to win a claim filed with the Ontario Workers Safety and Insurance Board for full compensation for lung cancer caused by occupational exposure to cigarette smoke.

"If I'd lost my hand at work they'd have paid me,'' she once said of the claim. "So if they're going to take chunks out of my lungs, why wouldn't I be entitled (to benefits)?''

Crowe's death comes about one week before the Smoke Free Ontario Act goes into effect. The provincial legislature paves the way for a blanket ban on smoking in all indoor public and workplaces to start in June 2006.
By June 2008, the legislation demands retailers remove their so-called cigarette 'power walls' and replace them with a new display that puts them out of sight from minors.

Jim Watson, the Liberal MPP for Ottawa-West-Nepean and a frequent customer at the restaurant where Crowe worked, described her as the "matriarch of the anti-smoking movement.''

Crowe told him she wanted to live to see the anti-smoking legislation come into effect, Watson told The Canadian Press on Sunday.
"It's very sad that she's not going to be here to see it, but she should be very happy that because of her influence, Ontarians will be able to breathe easier as a result of the legislation on May 31," said Watson.

[kolte]

dude, she was 61, its not like it was a big shock or anything.
lots of people die at 61 from tons of illnesses.
my great aunt died of lung cancer, she was a teacher, she never smoked a day in her life.
the cancer wasnt assumed caused by smoke.
dr's cant prove she got the cancer from second hand smoke,
so I don't believe it.
I think she just got cancer.
because people fucking get cancer.

[Whisper]

I think your a moron in sum really fucked up denial

[serial-thrilla]

you dont need to smoke to get cancer.

[rEpReSsIoN.?]

In britain as it is a free health service the goverment pays for all these people with cancer was got it though passive smoking, so thats a main reason why they banned it here to reduce it. And it is annoying in a public place to have smokers.

[/[{Alex}]\]

i saw that commercial.....so sad..........

ok just so you know, the life expectancy is 79 years, that means she(Heather Crowe) would be hear with us now, and she would be with us today if it wasnt for your smoke. she would be with her grandchildren, and she would have been able to watch them go threw university and get a family. but now she cannot. just remember that.

with that said, i am not anti smokers, i have a few people in my family who smoke, and the try their best to smoke outside or in a ventilated area away from me, which i have to that them for.

but you are just being, ignorant and selfcentered, its not just you who has rights, we do to and you shouldnt have to make us pay for your disgusting habit, i personally think they should take this law further, but thats just me...

[Pink-Floyd]

Well what I think, If public smoking gets banned, It'll be good at first, but then it may start people protesting and rioting, Think how serious it could be, And it's not like public smoking is going to give someone else cancer.

[Whisper]

Well what I think, If public smoking gets banned, It'll be good at first, but then it may start people protesting and rioting, Think how serious it could be, And it's not like public smoking is going to give someone else cancer.

you are such a dumbass
theres PROOF that it does give other people cancer
hence the dangers of second hand smoke

its been banned in all public areas in Alberta and not a single riot has happened
hell edmonton is smoke free everywhere including bars
Ontario and Quebec are to
and i think BC and Saskachewan either are or will be shortly

not a single riot has happened
and if they do
http://joeshaw.org/images/riot-police.jpg
LET THEM COME

[kolte]

you are such a dumbass
theres PROOF that it does give other people cancer
hence the dangers of second hand smoke

its been banned in all public areas in Alberta and not a single riot has happened
hell edmonton is smoke free everywhere including bars
Ontario and Quebec are to
and i think BC and Saskachewan either are or will be shortly

not a single riot has happened
and if they do
http://joeshaw.org/images/riot-police.jpg
LET THEM COME

that dude is monster. n.n he just shouldnt be allowed. you know, I maybe non smokers could chill out a bit. what is it? what is it really? Its not that smoking is bad for you or smells bad. No, there is something else. there is something about smoking that pisses you off that your not sharing. Because unhealthy? smells bad? there are so many other things you could be fighting for that would make such a more profound difference in this world. Why smoking. This trivial, stupid thing?

[Whisper]

that dude is monster. n.n he just shouldnt be allowed. you know, I maybe non smokers could chill out a bit. what is it? what is it really? Its not that smoking is bad for you or smells bad. No, there is something else. there is something about smoking that pisses you off that your not sharing. Because unhealthy? smells bad? there are so many other things you could be fighting for that would make such a more profound difference in this world. Why smoking. This trivial, stupid thing?

Oh so to you my health and the health of others around you is trivial?
interesting
You already know why I think its a disgusting pathedic habbit
I've told you on here many times
and the best part is my government agrees
Canada rules!!

[MegPerc725]

OF COURSE smoking is banned in public places.

Second hand smoke is BAD.
So why should someone have the right to expose others to it.
That's not fair.

It person A smokes, and person B inhales the second hand smoke, it isn't person B's fault that they just damaged their lungs. The fault is person A's.

Which is why smoking in public areas is banned.

Now onto the car thing.

How is it fair to person A's kid for person A to endanger the kid's life.
What kind of parenting is that.

[JunkBondTrader]

http://www.nlma.nf.ca/nexus/issues/spring_2003/images/image_2.jpg

Heather Crowe, the long-time waitress who contracted lung cancer after decades of exposure to second-hand smoke, has died. She was 61.
Crowe, who never smoked, became widely known as the face of the nation's anti-smoking movement after sharing her personal story in television ads for Health Canada.

In the advertisements, she describes how she contracted cancer from second-hand smoke at the restaurant where she worked for some 40 years.
Denis Choiniere, director of regulations and compliance for Health Canada said Crowe helped to put a face on the grim numbers.

""She had a strong and influential impact for our second-hand smoke campaigns," Choiniere said, appearing on CTV Newsnet.
"She was the figure, the face for the statistics that we've been using -- about 1,000 people every year dying from exposure to second-hand smoke in Canada," he said.

Crowe was diagnosed with inoperable lung cancer in 2002, and she fought the disease with chemotherapy, radiation and steroids before it went into remission.

But she learned last August that she was losing her battle with the disease.
Crowe was the first person to win a claim filed with the Ontario Workers Safety and Insurance Board for full compensation for lung cancer caused by occupational exposure to cigarette smoke.

"If I'd lost my hand at work they'd have paid me,'' she once said of the claim. "So if they're going to take chunks out of my lungs, why wouldn't I be entitled (to benefits)?''

Crowe's death comes about one week before the Smoke Free Ontario Act goes into effect. The provincial legislature paves the way for a blanket ban on smoking in all indoor public and workplaces to start in June 2006.
By June 2008, the legislation demands retailers remove their so-called cigarette 'power walls' and replace them with a new display that puts them out of sight from minors.

Jim Watson, the Liberal MPP for Ottawa-West-Nepean and a frequent customer at the restaurant where Crowe worked, described her as the "matriarch of the anti-smoking movement.''

Crowe told him she wanted to live to see the anti-smoking legislation come into effect, Watson told The Canadian Press on Sunday.
"It's very sad that she's not going to be here to see it, but she should be very happy that because of her influence, Ontarians will be able to breathe easier as a result of the legislation on May 31," said Watson.
Listen, I feel sorry for the poor lady and her family but, like Kolte said, she was 61! That's below average, I'll give you that, but it's not like she was in her 20s or anything. The whole second-hand smoke issue is a load of worthless propaganda bundled with tons of anecdotal evidence, which in short is complete bullshit. That would be like saying "my grandad lived to 82 died of non smoking related causes and he smoked all his life" which is true, he died of prostate cancer, the one kind of cancer that has been proven completely unconnected to smoking. But does this suggest that smoking isn't dangerous? Hell no!

There is hardly any evidence that second-hand smoke causes cancer and I won't believe any of this junk until I see some solid proof. There is no cancer that is specific to smoking, it could have been caused by anything. Car exhaust, radon/aspestos (actually I doubt it was aspestos), who knows?

I remember in super size me some doctor whose name I don't remember brought up a very good point. People hastle smokers all the time because it's filthy and dangerous and whatever. Why don't you go up to fat people and tell them the same thing? You wouldn't would you? Obesity, for example, is equally, if not more dangerous than smoking.

As for public smoking nobody is forcing you to drink at a pub or eat at a resteraunt. If you don't like the smoke there then call it a bad resteraunt and don't go there. And whats so bad about some smell anyway? Is an odour going to kill you? No.

And why is it disgusting? Smoke comes from fire and tobacco is a naturally occurring substance, just like trees. As for the chemicals, tell me this: have you ever eaten at McDonalds? Have you every drunk a Coke or a Gatorade? Have you ever eaten chocolate? They have just as many chemicals in them as cigarettes.

Of course, I agree to drawing the line at some point. For example, I don't think that they should let people light up on the bus or on the tube or even the cinema somewhere, people need those places to go to work or have fun. There are no alternatives. And once they're at work they shouldn't be allowed to smoke either (unless they have their own office or somewhere cut off) because people have to go to work to make a living and to buy food and water. But how many people can honestly say that they have to go through the pub to get to work? And the barstaff? I can't speak for you blokes in the USA but here in the UK 90% of barstaff said they don't mind smoke at all.

It's not fair that anybody can tell me I can't light a fag in a public place. For one thing, if it's out in the open, what's going to happen? Even if by some freak second-hand smoke is dangerous then why can't I smoke in the park? Because cigarettes make me smell bad? Why don't you go and tell joggers that they don't have the right to sweat? After all they smell too.

[Aηdy]

you cant stop sweatting. you can stop smoking

[Bobby]

I remember in super size me some doctor whose name I don't remember brought up a very good point. People hastle smokers all the time because it's filthy and dangerous and whatever. Why don't you go up to fat people and tell them the same thing? You wouldn't would you? Obesity, for example, is equally, if not more dangerous than smoking.

As for public smoking nobody is forcing you to drink at a pub or eat at a resteraunt. If you don't like the smoke there then call it a bad resteraunt and don't go there. And whats so bad about some smell anyway? Is an odour going to kill you? No.

And why is it disgusting? Smoke comes from fire and tobacco is a naturally occurring substance, just like trees. As for the chemicals, tell me this: have you ever eaten at McDonalds? Have you every drunk a Coke or a Gatorade? Have you ever eaten chocolate? They have just as many chemicals in them as cigarettes.

Of course, I agree to drawing the line at some point. For example, I don't think that they should let people light up on the bus or on the tube or even the cinema somewhere, people need those places to go to work or have fun. There are no alternatives. And once they're at work they shouldn't be allowed to smoke either (unless they have their own office or somewhere cut off) because people have to go to work to make a living and to buy food and water. But how many people can honestly say that they have to go through the pub to get to work? And the barstaff? I can't speak for you blokes in the USA but here in the UK 90% of barstaff said they don't mind smoke at all.

It's not fair that anybody can tell me I can't light a fag in a public place. For one thing, if it's out in the open, what's going to happen? Even if by some freak second-hand smoke is dangerous then why can't I smoke in the park? Because cigarettes make me smell bad? Why don't you go and tell joggers that they don't have the right to sweat? After all they smell too.

As much as I hate smoking. Felix is right. If you don't like smoke , go away. It's kinda like the saying. "If you don't wanna get wet, stay away from the pool" Another thing It's not just cigarettes and cigars that cause lung cancer..... it could be inhalants, poisonous chemicals, smoke from wild fires. Should we call mother nature and tell her to stop wild fires. NO!!! we might cause wild fires. but some are caused by heat which we can't control. What gives you the power to go up to a smoker and tell them that they are disgusting, but you don't have the nerve to go up to an overweight person and tell them their fat??? Smoking is a part of a person, just as being over weight is.

[Melchi0r]

The thing is, when people smoke in public, both groups of people lose: the smokers, because they're killing themselves slowly with their cigarettes, and the non-smokers, because they're inhaling the waste, which is even worse. The smokers do have the right to choose if they will smoke or not, but the non-smokers deserve to choose to inhale the crap. I am not for total bans on public smoking, because that's not fair to the smokers, but I think that smoking should definately be prohibited inside public buildings like restaurants and the like. I think smoking directly in front of the entrance/exit to places should not be allowed either.

[Ravenous]

Inhaling second hand smoke is harmfull, getting splashed from a swimming pool isnt. I don't really mind, but many people do and they shouldn't have to go through it if they dont want to.

[Dante]

well first off, Im happy for the smoking ban. Why the hell should i risk getting cancer so smokers could have the right to slowly put posion in their body, that my friend is absurd.

Second" Kolte it seems that you smoke, which btw since u live in america and you are UNDER 18 is illegal. So not only are u trying to put ur posion in non-smokers body, but you are breaking the law

[Melchi0r]

Actually, Se7en, there's no law that says smoking under the age of 18 is illegal. The law is someone under 18 can't buy cigarettes. That's a pretty poor way to keep minors from smoking though.

Now, cars, pollution, etc., are dangerous, too. And even though car crashes and malfunctions kill people, it is not an automatic health risk to the general public. Regular amounts of people do not die due to cars. Cars can be controlled. Their are regulations to car protection, reasonable regulations such as seatbelts. But with smoking, the government shouldn't have to regulate that the general population strolls the streets with a health mask on just because 2-3/10 people choose to endanger their own health.

[Dante]

well if u r under 18 yrs old and u cant buy cigarettes then doesnt that mean in someway, that ur not allowed to smoke....and actually i have seen cops give tickets to kids for smoking because they are under 18 yrs of age

[RowanVer.3.0]

Either make it all legal (marijuana all that shit), or make it all illegal (Alcohal, cigars, cigarettes). They're all bad. Countries should make up their mind.

EDIT: Another thing, I would MUCH rather be talking to someone who is stoned on the MJ instead of someone who's drunk. Stoned people aren't even rowdy. They're just mellow and stuff.

[kolte]

You guys. Are you serious? Your argument is forever flawed. You are all being hypocritical (spelling?). You argue that you are against second hand smoke because of its health risk, but you don't look at the hundreds of other products sold in the US and other countires that are twice + as harmful. Carcenogenes found in cig's can also be located in water, mcdonalds burgers, tissue paper, automobile smog, and well....everything in the world has...some carcenogenes (cancer causing material). So blame the lung cancer and heart disease on cig's but unfortunatly these illnessess can also be the cause of the america life style. Laziness, and ill food habits. I'm sorry, but don't expect to live past 40 if you eat shitty food every day. Don't expect to live past thrity if your watching telivison for over 5 hours in one sitting. Or if you sit in front of the computer for prolonged peridos. McDonalds, Burger King, Wal-Mart, Dollar Store, and the Mini Mart, Quickstop is not going to mold you into a super model. It will only contribute to your obesity, or your heart condition, or your lung failute. Stop putting all this attention on smoking when its not the problem. I laied down facts. Japan, the largest smoking population percentage of any countries in the planet, but also some of the loest lung cancer and heart disease numbers of any country on the planet. What does this conclude at least to me? It tells me, and you too, that while smoking is not healthy, at least in the United States the number of deaths in relation to smoking are highly exaggerated. In fact, I wouldnt be suprised if they have been stretched by as much as 300000 deaths per year. So yeah, smoking is bad, hell, it kills and hurts people. But if you eliminate it, your not saving yoruself. Your not helping the numbers of death. Your anti smoking capainges have lowered the number of smokers greatly. From what, something near 60% in the 50's 60's to now about 30% 40%. So, in relation to the population....less people as a % should be dying of lung cancer and heart disease right. Well, it just so happens that more people are dying of lung cancer and heart disease in relation to a percentage of the population. So you loose. Not because I win, but because you cant prove your case....I can prove mine. Who cant say that cig's are harmful. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. But to prove how harmful they arent....that takes class lol.

[Melchi0r]

Yes, Kolte, it seems like you think that people can choose to inhale second hand smoke.

[Bobby]

They choose to be around people who are smoking.

[JunkBondTrader]

They choose to be around people who are smoking.
Exactly. And as for exists/entrances to shopping centers and the likes... I mean, come on! Your near smoke for like two seconds when your walking out. No one with a brain can tell me that walking past a couple of people smoking will give you cancer.

[Dante]

but we shouldnt be subjected to inhaling that poison for 1 second

[Charlotte]

You guys. Are you serious? Your argument is forever flawed. You are all being hypocritical (spelling?). You argue that you are against second hand smoke because of its health risk, but you don't look at the hundreds of other products sold in the US and other countires that are twice + as harmful. Carcenogenes found in cig's can also be located in water, mcdonalds burgers, tissue paper, automobile smog, and well....everything in the world has...some carcenogenes (cancer causing material). So blame the lung cancer and heart disease on cig's but unfortunatly these illnessess can also be the cause of the america life style. Laziness, and ill food habits. I'm sorry, but don't expect to live past 40 if you eat shitty food every day. Don't expect to live past thrity if your watching telivison for over 5 hours in one sitting. Or if you sit in front of the computer for prolonged peridos. McDonalds, Burger King, Wal-Mart, Dollar Store, and the Mini Mart, Quickstop is not going to mold you into a super model. It will only contribute to your obesity, or your heart condition, or your lung failute. Stop putting all this attention on smoking when its not the problem. I laied down facts. Japan, the largest smoking population percentage of any countries in the planet, but also some of the loest lung cancer and heart disease numbers of any country on the planet. What does this conclude at least to me? It tells me, and you too, that while smoking is not healthy, at least in the United States the number of deaths in relation to smoking are highly exaggerated. In fact, I wouldnt be suprised if they have been stretched by as much as 300000 deaths per year. So yeah, smoking is bad, hell, it kills and hurts people. But if you eliminate it, your not saving yoruself. Your not helping the numbers of death. Your anti smoking capainges have lowered the number of smokers greatly. From what, something near 60% in the 50's 60's to now about 30% 40%. So, in relation to the population....less people as a % should be dying of lung cancer and heart disease right. Well, it just so happens that more people are dying of lung cancer and heart disease in relation to a percentage of the population. So you loose. Not because I win, but because you cant prove your case....I can prove mine. Who cant say that cig's are harmful. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. But to prove how harmful they arent....that takes class lol.

McDonalds isn't forcing their food upon people who don't want to eat. McDondals may be there, yes, but you don't have to go in there and eat there food. It's an option. The government is not taking away your right to smoke, so don't put words in their mouths! They are protecting the rights and health of people who do not want to smoke, and I, as a non-smoker, think its wonderful that I no longer have to worry about breathing second hand smoke everywhere I go. People can still smoke on the sidewalk outside of the mall or the movie theatre, and I have to inhale that.

Also, people have taken the whole "free-country" thing to amazing extremes. The idea of a free country was to protect the citizens, yes, but the idea of a government is to protect the citizens as well. Without a government, we would be an anarchy, and I wont even go into the problems of that. The government is not always perfect, no, but things would be a lot worse off without one.

[JunkBondTrader]

but we shouldnt be subjected to inhaling that poison for 1 second
Because you probably wouldn't even inhale it, especially if your outdoors. The only evidence that suggests second hand smoke is dangerous is totally meaningless: anecdotal evidence.

[cmpcmp]

IF it is a place you own, smoke all you want,

IF it is a public place that you don't own you don't have the right to risk other people's life

IF it is a private bar that isn't government owned, and you aren't leagly compelled to be there (do they have goverment bars?) it should be up to the owner, and it should be illegal to smoke in a bar that the owner has decided is smoke free.

If you don't like smoke don't go to that bar. as long as a nation is capitalistic if ppl don't like smoke there will be a bar with no smoke for thoes ppl.
If you think bungie jumping is too dangerous don't do it.
If you think something is dangerous don't do it.

Simple as that.

[Nexdeus]

bar and resturants can kick you out of THEIR place THEY OWN the place

person A:"i dont like smoking i will tell the resturant owner to make him stop"

resturant owner:"im sorry i OWN this place AND grant people the right to smoke here"

Person A:"But it hurts my body"

Owner:''THEN LEAVE"

[Whisper]

Thank god nobody cares what you think

Its illigal to smoke anywhere a minor has access to in alberta
and its illigal in Edmonton PERIOD

ALLOT of provinces and citys are like that now

[fdsgfg55465]

yeah because people in pubs are so higenic, i think it should be up to the owner of the establishment
it is up to them

[dmeek7]

banned yes....... smoking rocks

[Hyper]

The last post on this is almost a year old.. Great necro

But yeah it is getting ridicilous

[Underground_Network]

Two things.... First this should be locked... Second, although I don't smoke, I believe smokers have rights, but they do not have the right to harm other people, my friend's mom died from second hand smoke, so I'm more on the against side when it comes to smoking in public. Second hand smoke kills almost as many as smoking itself does. If you want to destroy your life by smoking, have fun, but don't harm others in doing so, my mom has asthma, and a long while ago she had to go to the hospital when we were in a restaurant filled with smoke, despite the fact that we were in the non-smoking section. Anyways... [REQUEST LOCK]

[Maverick]

I really don't think this should be locked. I know its old but I kinda want to debate this. Andy what do you think?

[Everglow]

Smokers harm me, the people around them and the environment. There should totally be against smoking in public places. It's disgusting, fowl, rancid and definately not people, animal, or earth friendly.

[redcar]

It should be kept open, esspecially seeing as Wales just introduced their smoking ban.

As I have said before, I believe, I love smoking bans. And am very proud that Ireland was one of the first countries in the world to introduce a smoking ban in all enclosed work places and that it is also one the strictest in Europe.

[Hyper]

Smoking ban, I am fine with that, because that is somewhat understandable

but some things surtenly aren't.. Like in here in our capital you can't buy alcohol after 11 pm.. And you can't drink in public. That doesn't still stop someone from selling the alcohol for a jacked up price after 11 and it doesn't stop people from drinking on the streets.. The law should focus on other things, rather than smoking or drinking on the streets

[redcar]

Thats the same in Ireland. Although I believe its midnight that it cant be sold after. And you can't drink in public here either (other than a public house or a venue which has a license). All these laws are good, smoking on the streets has the ability to damage other peoples health and drinking on the streets can lead to dangerous behaviour.

[dannyley]

ban it, it kills the smoker and the people around him/her.

[Hyper]

Thats the same in Ireland. Although I believe its midnight that it cant be sold after. And you can't drink in public here either (other than a public house or a venue which has a license). All these laws are good, smoking on the streets has the ability to damage other peoples health and drinking on the streets can lead to dangerous behaviour.


Do people actually follow that law there.??

Look at history.. Look what happend when USA banned alcohol.. They got the mob who made hundreds of millions from it

But now we have some old drunkards or junkies selling some home made shit for a jacked up price at night, or some punks buying crates of alcohol to sell it for twice the price later.. And the cops don't even take the law seriously..

[redcar]

Yea they do, like drinking out in public on the street is not great thing to do, like its cold and shitty. People drink in bars, where there is a license to do so, restraunts, their homes, but not out on the street or in public or public places.

But yes we obey the law because its not unreasonable.

[BillyWitchDoctor.com]

i will never touch a cigg in my life, but im not gonna go out and start preaching to smokers and shit, im not against them. you cant just be liike "i think smoking should be banned" its a shame, but do u realize how incradibly bad that would be for the economy? at least in america, the ciggarette industry is huge, u cant just take it out of the picture and expect nothing to happen w/ the economy. on the subject of smoking in public places, if the owner of a bar( a bar meaning just a bar, not a bar/restaurant) wants to have allow smoking in the bar, then i think that this is his choice. This is because, 1. he/she owns the establishment. 2. minors are not allowed in bars so it doesnt make a difference in the case of minors. If you dont want to go to that bar, then dont, if u dont want to work there, dont. Restaurants are different, minors are allowed and it is a family setting where smoking families and non-smokikng families can enjoy themselves. Smoking shouldnt be legal in restaurants (it isnt anmyre in NY) because all families/people are welcome, smokers should make their wawy to that bar that allows smoking, if they dont want to then they can step outside for their smoke and come back in. Smoking on the street? theres NO FUCKING WAY that u can get NYC to stop smoking as they walk on the street. i dont like it, but u cant be so stuck up, uve gotta learn to live and adjust, if i am about to walk by a guy puffing smoke like no tomarrow, i hold my breath for 2 seconds and then keep walking. if ur smoking in a car w/ a minor, stop bein a douchebag. you dont have the right to get that kid starting their life off around smoke. you should be a respectable person and realize that smoking is your choice but that doesnst mean that you should be an ass and not recognize that an 8 y/o kid in the back seat cant say much as they dont know much. you should be a good enough person to smoke when they're not around, let them make the poor decision to start smoking on their own, once they realize that their a shameful addict, shame on them

[Ironic Infidel In England]

I smoke, but I still think you should do it so it's only going to affect you, and certainly not near kids. (WTF? I'm only 14)

[theonetheycallbob]

The government has a right and a responsibility to protect its citizen's. Second hand smoke is bad for those of us who have chosen not to smoke so they are protecting us. I personally appreciate not having to smell like smoke and/or breath in smoke everytime I'm in public!

[Hyper]

Ohh comon realy, people should focus their attention on starving kids for example or the homeless

Not on smoking in public places, why the hell should the smoker stop smoking everywhere because a handful of ppl dont like some little smoke cloud?

but why should those people breath in the smoke?

Simple compromise dont breath it in, and if the people who smoke cant stay in the smoking section kick their ass in there..

[redcar]

why the hell should the smoker stop smoking everywhere because a handful of ppl dont like some little smoke cloud?
Because a majority of people don't like it, not a minority, and also the small fact that second hand smoke damages health.

Simple compromise dont breath it in
Mmmm can anyone see the flaw in this compromise?! Answers on a postcard!

Thats like saying if there is a pervert out there who likes to flash at people, then there is a simple compromise, don't look. Or if someone is a dangerous driver, the compromise is, don't get in their way.

[Bobby]

I haven't read the whole thread, and I don't really feel like it :P, but here is my opinion on this matter.

Yes public smoking should be banned. If people want to basically write themselves a death note, then they should go ahead. But I don't want that crap in my lungs. I prefer to breath, not caugh in that stuff. Do it in your own house, where it won't bother other people.

[Hyper]

Because a majority of people don't like it, not a minority, and also the small fact that second hand smoke damages health.


Mmmm can anyone see the flaw in this compromise?! Answers on a postcard!

Thats like saying if there is a pervert out there who likes to flash at people, then there is a simple compromise, don't look. Or if someone is a dangerous driver, the compromise is, don't get in their way.


Lol if a pervert flashes near you, you begin looking Alex?

And I do think you would try not to get infront of a dangerous driver..

Why should the smoker stop? And why should the other ppl breath it in.. Answer that, you are still trying to force you're will on the smoker

[DestroyTheFuture]

smoking bans are not needed.

its the owners decision. if he accepts smoking, he might change his rules if customers dont give him money because of his smoking enablement.

its also simple to put it like this

who cares, its their choice to smoke, and your's to not be involved with that person. simple


owned

[kikicupkake]

well i dont know if public smoking is banned becase i just moved here but i think that it should becase i have to have an inhaler thanks to my mom when i was a small child. and i dont want to have to see kids go throw what i have to sooo.....

[Hyper]

As i've noticed, the light shit that ppl smoke, their smoke smells awful, makes me wanna puke but the strong sigs don't have that odd annoying sickly smoke smell :P