tell me why there isnt a god.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

title speaks for itself. for all the atheists id like to hear why you dont think there is a god.

[Abyssinian]

God has never proven him/herself to me.

Of course, Im not an ATHIEST, as such...
I believe that God is love. That all powerful force that chemicals just cant explain.

But I think that all named religions are bull.. Because theyve never proven themselves to me. Science can explain almost anything.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Because I don't see any evidence thats why most people dont believe where is the evidence?

[Harley Quinn]

Appartly the bible is supposed evidence but i dont believe that it can be trusted, i mesn it was wrote 4000years ago so how do we know its true and how God gave instructions to write it? I see no God. We cant see him. Therefore he might not be real

[Rainstorm]

title speaks for itself. for all the atheists id like to hear why you dont think there is a god.

I'm not entierly atheist, but I don't believe there is a god.


Why?

No evidence.

In the bible, which is biased to the people who wrote it, people say God created everything, including humans, in 7 days.

Based on Science, we have proved that the Earth was created billions of years before dinosaurs, then those millions of years before humans.

Who are we going to believe. Science with has findings to back it up, or a book written thousands of years ago?

[Sage]

title speaks for itself. for all the atheists id like to hear why you dont think there is a god.

I'm not an atheist but I'll go ahead and answer anyway. The same reason you don't believe in Thor or Odin or The Incredible Hulk.

[Grey fox]

It is highly likely there is no God becuase:

Many different religions have different deity's.
I refuse to believe that if there is a god "he" has ever shown "himself" to anyone.
Religion causes more wars and deaths then any other factor.
Evolution is highly credible, especially when you take the mitochondria and chloroplasts into account.

Heaven vs Hell. If there is a god, and "he" is all loving and all forgiving, everyone goes to heaven, thus eliminating the need for hell. If there isn't a god, then we die and that's it. End of. Just a silently bio-degrading lump of minerals and cells. And you don't know any the wiser.

Lastly, if there is a god he/she is bloody stupid by allowing humans to rule the earth.

[Delusion15]

To quote everyone else there is absolutely no evidence that god exists. The reason for our existence the reason we humans have gotten to where we are and why we do things can all be explained by Evolution. If god came down tomorrow and introduced himself to the world then i would believe him but until then there is no evidence to believe in any sort of deity.

[Zephyr]

Ever since I was a little kid, I've never believed in God.
I used to go to church,
Sunday school,
Used to go to Vacation Bible School,
Been to a teen youth group in the past.
Once I even asked for a Bible for my birthday,
So I could read it and try to decode what I was missing that everybody else got.
I just never felt 'his presence' so to speak.

It's much like telling me that hallucinations are real.
Whatever drug you must be on,
I must be missing out on or not getting the same effect.

In time, I've filled that absence with science though.
I need facts and reasoning, not faith and religion.
Science makes more sense to me than religion ever will.

Neither will ever be proved or disproved completely though,
So I don't try to waste my time fighting over it,
Just enjoying the time that I have alive,
Spending it how I want to for the most part = ]

[Triceratops]

I find it impossible for me not to believe in God.
God is now a massive part of my life. I am really grateful for the things He is doing for me.
If I didn't have faith in Him, I absolutely dread to think where the heck I would be right now.
I can always feel his presence whenever I need it most.
Overall, I personally just can't deny the fact that He exists.

I would never enforce my beliefs onto others as I firmly respect the fact that everyone has the right to make their own minds up on the matter.



So I don't try to waste my time fighting over it,
Just enjoying the time that I have alive,
Spending it how I want to for the most part = ]

I agree.
I wish the Atheists I knew were like this.

[MadManWithaBox]

My theory about god, and religion in general, is that their someone, or something up, determining events. But I also think their not a god as presented to as by the bible, like a perfect being. I think their more human than we care to think, with flaws, and weaknesses, cos If god truly was a perfect being, and loves us all, he wouldn't let us kill ourselves, drowning in our destruction. the nuclear bomb, the two world wars, the holocaust. I think god is the puppet master, pulling the strings, watching us all down here, destroy ourselves. But I also believe their no is no destiny, and the future can change at anytime. We can defy what god wants, and what god thinks. But thats just my opinion. And I'm not a religous type in general

[INFERNO]

These sorts of questions I love because you can answer with a question: tell me why there IS a god. If you wish to inquire why others disbelieve in a certain thing, then you must provide some explanation for why you believe that the certain thing exists in the first place. In other words, burden of proof is still in your side, so show some evidence for why you believe your god exists and then I will provide some evidence for my side. By evidence, I don't mean citing the bible because that commits a nice list of logical fallacies such as circular reasoning, base assertion fallacy, etc... . As for personal experiences, I prefer if they can be accurately verified, so preferably personal experiences someone has had that have been deemed to be authentic, genuine and documented. Providing some of your own personal experiences has the problem that it may be a set of lies and we don't have any way to know if you're lying or not. Providing documented and verified personal experiences do still have the risk that they are bogus, however, since they are verified and documented, it's assumed the risk is lower and that they're more credible.

[Bougainvillea]

I just never felt 'his presence' so to speak.

It's much like telling me that hallucinations are real.
Whatever drug you must be on,
I must be missing out on or not getting the same effect.

In time, I've filled that absence with science though.
I need facts and reasoning, not faith and religion.
Science makes more sense to me than religion ever will.

Neither will ever be proved or disproved completely though,
So I don't try to waste my time fighting over it,
Just enjoying the time that I have alive,
Spending it how I want to for the most part = ]

Thank you, Steph.

I understand how people believe in God. It's good to have faith. It's good to have faith in something you believe is true.
But from all my experiences. It's hard for me, personally, to believe in God.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

These sorts of questions I love because you can answer with a question: tell me why there IS a god. If you wish to inquire why others disbelieve in a certain thing, then you must provide some explanation for why you believe that the certain thing exists in the first place.

if you want i will make a thread asking people why there is a god

[Jean Poutine]

There is no God, because if there were one, He would keep people from beating dead horses, such as this one, even further into the afterlife.

Maybe it's a new membership requirement for this forum. Register, post intro, post silly God dead horse beating in ROTW.

I refuse to put my destiny in the hands of some dude with a beard in the sky, no matter how kickass said beard is.

BTW...atheists must prove themselves to you...why?

[INFERNO]

if you want i will make a thread asking people why there is a god

That's been done numerous times already. There's at least one such thread on the first page of the Ramblings of the Wise and if you search through the pages, you'll find more. In fact, many of the threads in this part of the forum have to do with religion and many of those have to do specifically with this issue.

The second problem is that using the answers given by others as to why they think a god exists may not be the same reasons that you support. The burden of proof is on YOU, it is not on US. YOU proposed the idea, YOU need to provide the burden of proof. If you're going to go about and make a forum asking others to provide some evidence for the burden of proof, then that suggests that you cannot provide any yourself, in which case, you're trying to debate a topic which you really have no information about at all. One then has to wonder, do you even understand the topic in the first place?

Lastly, why should others have to justify to you why they believe or disbelieve in something? Why should others have to tell you (as it reads in the title of the thread) why they believe/disbelieve in a god?


Maybe it's a new membership requirement for this forum. Register, post intro, post silly God dead horse beating in ROTW.

:lol: So true.

[Cody_Metalhead]

Because if there is a "God" that is as good as everyone says, why would he allow such terrible things like poverty? We are all his children, right? If there is a "God" he is not a very "holy" one at that. But, you have your beliefs, I have mine.

[Sage]

Because if there is a "God" that is as good as everyone says, why would he allow such terrible things like poverty? We are all his children, right? If there is a "God" he is not a very "holy" one at that. But, you have your beliefs, I have mine.

God supposedly allows these things to happen because we're sinners. If you studied the bible a bit more, you'd not need to raise a silly point like that.

[deadpie]

God does not speak and has never shown a sign for people to see him.
The only proof of ANY (not just the christian god) god is in some books. Not enough proof.

[Rainstorm]

God supposedly allows these things to happen because we're sinners. If you studied the bible a bit more, you'd not need to raise a silly point like that.

The bible was written thousands of years ago. Surely, things have changed, and the Bible doesn't address those.

[Cody_Metalhead]

God supposedly allows these things to happen because we're sinners. If you studied the bible a bit more, you'd not need to raise a silly point like that.

Considering I don't believe that bullshit, why the fuck would I read it?
Also, why do "Christians" also have problems like that?
To be a Christian means to be "Christ-Like", meaning, no sin.
Unless of course, "Jesus" was a sinner, but of course, "Jesus" was perfect, or so they say.

[INFERNO]

Because if there is a "God" that is as good as everyone says, why would he allow such terrible things like poverty? We are all his children, right? If there is a "God" he is not a very "holy" one at that. But, you have your beliefs, I have mine.

According to the bible, yes, humans are god's creation, however, you recall that god is credited in the Christian view to have made everything. Part of making everything includes making whatever is evil as well as what is good.

Considering I don't believe that bullshit, why the fuck would I read it?

It's meant to be a civil debate. As for why you would read it, you can read it so you can understand what it is that you don't like. If you've never read the bible, then I'm assuming you dislike it either because you prefer the atheist view (which I am a fan of) and you probably learned very little indirectly what it is.


Also, why do "Christians" also have problems like that?

What problems are you referring to? Why do certain "atheists" have problems like the ones you have?


To be a Christian means to be "Christ-Like", meaning, no sin.
Unless of course, "Jesus" was a sinner, but of course, "Jesus" was perfect, or so they say.

Being Christian means you forgive, you be compassionate, etc... . I'd be lying if I said all Christians are all of these things, however, being Christian is simply that you believe in the Christian paradigm and perhaps read the bible. Being a Christian generally doesn't mean being sinless because humans are sinful even Christians. The view I take on Christianity is that when one believes, they believe that the Holy Spirit will in a way help them reach Heaven upon their death, if one wants to believe in spirits and such existing. Whether you want to view this as the human doing diddly squat and letting the Holy Spirit give them a free ride or whether the Holy Spirit only pops in to guide only at certain times to help them be more righteous is up to you.

[Church]

I dont believe in God cause of lack of evidence, science disproving things in holy books.

The people who say God changed their lives dont give themselves enough credit, they put the hard work into accomplishing what needed done.

[Sage]

Considering I don't believe that bullshit, why the fuck would I read it?

Because knowing something about what it is you debate against does wonders in the way of not making you look like a jackass. : )

[Cody_Metalhead]

Because knowing something about what it is you debate against does wonders in the way of not making you look like a jackass. : )

I'm not here to debate.
I'm here to throw in my two cents and leave it at that.
So, I'm not seeing how I'm a jackass?

[Bougainvillea]

ROTW is a DEBATE forum.

I wholeheartedly agree with INFERNO and Deschain.

And if you wanted to leave it at that, then you shouldn't reply to the post.

If they see something they don't agree with, it will be called upon. Expect it to happen.

[Sage]

I'm not here to debate.

I'm here to throw in my two cents and leave it at that.

So, I'm not seeing how I'm a jackass?

I'm not here to debate.

I'm not here to debate.

I'm here to throw in my two cents and leave it at that.

Thanks for playin'. Now let's get back on topic please.

[INFERNO]

I'm not here to debate.
I'm here to throw in my two cents and leave it at that.
So, I'm not seeing how I'm a jackass?

I'm not sure what your true motives are, however, sadly you have debated in this forum my friend. You brought up a question initially, it was answered and challenged, and you responded with a challenge yourself. That is right along the definition of what a debate is. I'm not sure what you consider a debate to be, although we can leave that for another thread if you want.

As for being a jackass, when you call something that you have little knowledge on as being bullshit and wouldn't want to waste your time reading it yet you do want your questions answered about it, and after insulting it, you seem oblivious as to why people who believe what you don't would be angry, and you then proceed to continue along your "high-and-mighty" path, I would hope that you can put two-and-two together. We can debate about what the proper terminology would be for insulting you but I'm sure you're smart enough to figure out why your posts on this thread would lead to others getting annoyed and insulting you.

If you still cant get it, then I'll let someone else spoon-feed you.

[Whisper]

title speaks for itself. for all the atheists id like to hear why you dont think there is a god.

Give me scientific reasoning to prove there is
you don't believe in Santa do you?
Why not? because a man that gives gifts to every single child on earth in one night by climbing down a chimney isn't very plausible is it?
Yet some omnipotent being that hears a few billion people whispering to him all at once is perfectly sound?

Do you believe in Zeus? Poseidon? Osiris? Odin? Huitzilopochtli?
didn't think so
why?
are they some how less?
are they primitive?
insignificant?
what makes this "God" better than any other throughout history?

[mrmcdonaldduck]

well, i will tell why i beleive
until science explains everything i will beleive in god, but not as in church.

[Camazotz]

well, i will tell why i beleive
until science explains everything i will beleive in god, but not as in church.

Science will never explain everything. Never ever. Believing in God is illogical without scientific evidence.

[Whisper]

well, i will tell why i beleive
until science explains everything i will beleive in god, but not as in church.
I love how you ignored my argument and question entirely, denial...common trait among religious followers
Religion does NOT explain everything it fabricates a story to make you feel better about the unknown
science will never know the answers to everything
nine times out of ten you get more questions than answers
that's the joy of the scientific method
I don't fear the unknown
I'm in wonder of it

[Eagle1]

because there is no proof somebody writes a book and everybody believes it and science can explain almost EVERYTHING.

[INFERNO]

well, i will tell why i beleive
until science explains everything i will beleive in god, but not as in church.

Science is not able to explain everything completely. Believing in god may provide you with a different explanation, however, I don't believe one can accurately say that science's explanation is better than religion's explanation and vice-verca.

You can believe in god all you want and you can believe in science, the two are not mutually exclusive. Believing in god because you believe science will never explain everything to me is a rather horrible reason because you're trying to use the premise of science against science in order to explain why you believe in something that's not science. Your explanation is basically saying that you believe in god because you disbelieve in science's ability yet you don't have a reason that's a more religious one.

I have 2 questions for you though:

1) Do you believe in any aspect of science?
2) Do you believe that the answers that god or your religion provides you fulfill your curiousity about a certain subject completely?


Believing in God is illogical without scientific evidence.

Why? Believing in god involves faith so why do you need science to back up that faith? If you do, then it's not faith anymore and it's not really a religious belief anymore. The result that you'll get may be along the lines of theistic evolution or theistic science. It tends to warp science and religion because although one can believe in the two of them, if you try to combine them together, then you distort both of them and the result is you trying to make some sense out of the chaos you've made.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

in answer to your questions, yes for the first and no for the second.

allow me to elaborate on my beleif, i think that science can explain almost everything except the origin of life, the universe and everything. until they can say that some force, be it concious or not created the universe and it was all chance, i beleive in god.

i am by no means a fundemantalist christian, i beleive in evolution and that the world is billions of years old, not 6000 and unlike most of my family, who are fundemantalists, i see why people are atheists.

[Kahn]

I remain Neutral on this topic.

1. There cannot be a god because him or her hasn't even proven itself.

2. The bible is an ancient piece that is bound to have some false articles.

3. No man can speak or be spoken to by someone that no one can see unless he is crazy.

4. Why should we think this higher power created us when humanity can take all the credit itself?

Why he can be real.

1. People swear to have visited heaven if they have had a brief death.

2. People have prayed and great things have happened.

Thats all I got for the real part..

[Triceratops]

Believing in God is illogical without scientific evidence.

I absolutely disagree.

Us Christians have faith which is so commonly underestimated. Faith is such a strong and powerful thing which only the individual can understand if they've experienced it for themselves.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

I absolutely disagree.

Us Christians have faith which is so commonly underestimated. Faith is such a strong and powerful thing which only the individual can understand if they've experienced it for themselves.

excactly, faith is a powerful thing.

[Commander Thor]

excactly, faith is a powerful thing.

Yet, evidence is THE most powerful thing.

[Sage]

Yet, evidence is THE most powerful thing.

And yet neither are mutually exclusive!

[PalindromicBob]

I absolutely disagree.

Us Christians have faith which is so commonly underestimated. Faith is such a strong and powerful thing which only the individual can understand if they've experienced it for themselves.

Faith. Is it not synonymous with denial?

[Sage]

Faith. Is it not synonymous with denial?

Not really. I have faith in humanity's ability to progress, as times are always getting better (when you look at the big picture), much the same way I have faith that I'm a good person, even though I may not be everything the typical good person is.

[PalindromicBob]

Not really. I have faith in humanity's ability to progress, as times are always getting better (when you look at the big picture), much the same way I have faith that I'm a good person, even though I may not be everything the typical good person is.

In that sense it isn't... But within the context of (stereotypical full-fledged) christianity isn't it?

[Delusion15]

Not really. I have faith in humanity's ability to progress, as times are always getting better (when you look at the big picture), much the same way I have faith that I'm a good person, even though I may not be everything the typical good person is.


I see where you are going with that however you have evidence to support that. We are making hybrid cars we are not cutting down as many trees ect


Thats not faith that is more hope and or knowing that we are slowly realizing what we have done and how we can fix it. Do you think you are a good person if you can look in the mirror and not cringe at the sight of yourself (inner self not outer self) then i say deep down you are a good person.


Religion has no evidence therefore it has nothing that it can say that would count as proof

[PalindromicBob]

I dislike these arguments. They cannot be won. One who cannot step back and see the absurdity of organized religion is already to far-gone argue with.

[Hyper]

I dislike these arguments. They cannot be won. One who cannot step back and see the absurdity of organized religion is already to far-gone argue with.

Nice prejudice!

All extremists are bad religious and atheist militants, don't like either of them

Same shit different color - still smells

[INFERNO]

I dislike these arguments. They cannot be won. One who cannot step back and see the absurdity of organized religion is already to far-gone argue with.

If one is to say that part of what they're arguing is too absurd for anyone else to accept, then I think that the argument with the heavily biased person is too far gone.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

Nice prejudice!

All extremists are bad religious and atheist militants, don't like either of them

Same shit different color - still smells


excactly, i dont know if your a an atheist or not, but your argument makes sense

[Sage]

In that sense it isn't... But within the context of (stereotypical full-fledged) christianity isn't it?

Debating extremists only gives them the attention that they want. As the saying goes, no publicity is bad publicity (or something like that). It only makes you come off as a bigot on either side if you assume the worst of someone based on their beliefs. Many of my best friends are christians who meet none of the stereotypes associated with them, even more so with my few muslim friends, who are awfully cool folks that you could never apply the 'terrorist' or 'america-hater' label to.

I dislike these arguments. They cannot be won.

I'm sorry that debating with moderates is such a pain in the ass for you. From experience, I'll say, the more radical someone is in their beliefs, the easier it is to make a mockery out of them in debate (whether they admit defeat or not).

One who cannot step back and see the absurdity of organized religion is already to far-gone argue with.

So why bother talking to anyone who isn't an atheist anyway? Isn't being judgmental and close-minded of other viewpoints something most atheists have against organized religion?

[Hyper]

excactly, i dont know if your a an atheist or not, but your argument makes sense

I am a very religious person which is why I avoid participating in these arguments

I just had to state a point of principal.

[PalindromicBob]

Debating extremists only gives them the attention that they want. As the saying goes, no publicity is bad publicity (or something like that). It only makes you come off as a bigot on either side if you assume the worst of someone based on their beliefs. Many of my best friends are christians who meet none of the stereotypes associated with them, even more so with my few muslim friends, who are awfully cool folks that you could never apply the 'terrorist' or 'america-hater' label to.



I'm sorry that debating with moderates is such a pain in the ass for you. From experience, I'll say, the more radical someone is in their beliefs, the easier it is to make a mockery out of them in debate (whether they admit defeat or not).



So why bother talking to anyone who isn't an atheist anyway? Isn't being judgmental and close-minded of other viewpoints something most atheists have against organized religion?

#1. First of all, I am not assuming the worst about anyone. If you are referring to my original post, I was describing the minority of individuals who take faith too far. I did that simply to illustrate what impact faith CAN have on SOME individuals (Also, I'd like to note that I have Muslim and Christian (heck, my whole community is catholic) friends as well. I want to stress that I am hating the ideologies, not the individuals).

#2. I know. I didn't intend to send that such a harsh (,illogical, prejudiced, etc.) message. My frustration with all the "bad" things religion has caused in the past took over, and I wrote emotionally, rather than logically.

#3. You're perfectly correct. Also, I'm not Atheist, I just don't believe in a "creator".

[Sage]

My frustration with all the "bad" things religion has caused in the past took over, and I wrote emotionally, rather than logically.

Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people. If you want to attack an ideology, attack dogmatism and willful ignorance. Religious or not, motivations aside, that is the one thing all hinderances to our progress as a species have in common, from the fascist state of Nazi Germany to the medieval Catholic Church, it is dogmatic thinking and the rejection of new ideas that chips away at our world, not the belief that there may be something beyond our comprehension outside.

[PalindromicBob]

Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people. If you want to attack an ideology, attack dogmatism and willful ignorance. Religious or not, motivations aside, that is the one thing all hinderances to our progress as a species have in common, from the fascist state of Nazi Germany to the medieval Catholic Church, it is dogmatic thinking and the rejection of new ideas that chips away at our world, not the belief that there may be something beyond our comprehension outside.

The thing is, religion and the encouragement of dogmatic and/or ignorant behavior are sometimes inseparable. Those such cases are what irk me the most, and are the main reason for my strong opinion.

PS: You made it sound as if all religious beliefs are Agnostic in nature. They aren't.

[Sage]

The thing is, religion and the encouragement of dogmatic and/or ignorant behavior are sometimes inseparable. Those such cases are what irk me the most, and are the main reason for my strong opinion.

Sometimes but as we progress through history, religions themselves are becoming more and more reasonable. Things like the evangelists in the south and the terrorists in islamic countries go beyond religion and are more cultural problems than anything.

PS: You made it sound as if all religious beliefs are Agnostic in nature. They aren't.

I never said that. If it was implied, it was done so falsely.

[Stewart]

I don't believe in God because I don't believe in an invisible kingdom in the sky and a since there are so many religions, which one is right, or correct?

[Sage]

I don't believe in God because I don't believe in an invisible kingdom in the sky and a since there are so many religions, which one is right, or correct?

Believing in a higher power isn't necessarily limited to organized religions.

[PalindromicBob]

Sometimes but as we progress through history, religions themselves are becoming more and more reasonable. Things like the evangelists in the south and the terrorists in islamic countries go beyond religion and are more cultural problems than anything.



I never said that. If it was implied, it was done so falsely.

#1. Whether or not such issues are now cultural, the root cause must be addressed and, if possible, corrected (and, as you said, steps toward this are being taken.

#2. Ok.

[Sage]

#1. Whether or not such issues are now cultural, the root cause must be addressed and, if possible, corrected (and, as you said, steps toward this are being taken.

That's pointless. Culture is far greater than any one religion. Just look at all the muslims that have managed to fit into 'western' culture (and yes I know many have not). They don't bother anybody! There are ways to address the cultural problems in the world without forcing anyone to change their religious views.

[Xenomi]

I'm not entierly atheist, but I don't believe there is a god.


Why?

No evidence.

In the bible, which is biased to the people who wrote it, people say God created everything, including humans, in 7 days.

Based on Science, we have proved that the Earth was created billions of years before dinosaurs, then those millions of years before humans.

Who are we going to believe. Science with has findings to back it up, or a book written thousands of years ago?


the Torah says that on Seven Days God created part of the universe. It never says these days are consecutive nor does it say "on the next day"

if you dont believe me read the Torah

[Sage]

the Torah says that on Seven Days God created part of the universe. It never says these days are consecutive nor does it say "on the next day"

if you dont believe me read the Torah

The Torah is not evidence of the Torah. Welcome to Ramblings of the Wise, a name less relevant by the day.

[INFERNO]

I don't believe in God because I don't believe in an invisible kingdom in the sky and a since there are so many religions, which one is right, or correct?

Consider scientific theories, even ones as dominant as the theory of evolution. One property of all them is that they're falsifiable. Religious beliefs are similar, they can be falsified although in a different sense. I don't think we'll know what one is truly, 100% correct because in order to do that we'd need to know every single thing about the universe and every single thing that was, is and will be. Until then, religious beliefs, like scientific theories, are an attempt to explain something. You're right, since there are so many diverse ones, chances are some are wrong, however, the way I see it, it doesn't exactly matter because all of them have an equal chance of being wrong (or conversely, an equal chance of being right). There is no way to know, just as in science, there is no way to know something is completely factual.

the Torah says that on Seven Days God created part of the universe. It never says these days are consecutive nor does it say "on the next day"

if you dont believe me read the Torah

You cannot hope to come into a civilized debate, quote the Torah and then use the Torah as evidence for itself.


In the bible, which is biased to the people who wrote it, people say God created everything, including humans, in 7 days.

Based on Science, we have proved that the Earth was created billions of years before dinosaurs, then those millions of years before humans.

The problem though is one thing which you seem to have over-looked: how does the bible define a day? You're applying the modern definition of it being 24 hours, however, the bible was written thousands of years ago and it's very possible that what they considered a day is completely different from what we consider a day to be.


Who are we going to believe. Science with has findings to back it up, or a book written thousands of years ago?

Personally, I side with science although I don't think one has to choose between only science or only religion to answer the overall question. In other words, the two are not mutually exclusive, one can be religious yet adhere to science and vice-verca.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

the priest at my church has said several times that the theory of evolution is acceptable and that 7 days could be 700 million years.

[ShatteredWings]

the Torah says that on Seven Days God created part of the universe. It never says these days are consecutive nor does it say "on the next day"

if you dont believe me read the Torah

actually... that's true.

Note: The jewish torah and the old testament of the christan bible are the same.

Nothing spefically says "on the second day" blah blah. it's just how it's taught to kids. Which i think is wrong, from a religious stand point.

i haven't read this whole thread, but that post just caught my attention.


prove there is no god
prove there is a god

you can't.

faith is blind. There's no way to prove either way.
i, personally, can't beleive in a higher power of sorts, but i can respect anyone who does. that's where all this bs coems from. Intolerance on both sides

[MyNameIsJack]

Create your own belief.
I have mine.

well, i will tell why i beleive
until science explains everything i will beleive in god, but not as in church.


YOU'RE SOO RIGHT! For example: Vatican wants limousine for the poor but what the fuck, they have gold in the air they breathe

[Contra]

I just don't think there is somebody or something controlling our actions or the things that happen in our daily events, or all around the world.
I think, and this is my personal opinion, we make our own decisions and actions.

[Hatsune Miku]

I just dont see enough proof. I mean, Im supposed to believe some book that states god made all humans and life just like that? And like everybody else said, It was made thousands of years ago. We have scientific proof that humans and life were created from evolution, and a logical theory on how the earth was created.

[Sage]

I just dont see enough proof. I mean, Im supposed to believe some book that states god made all humans and life just like that? And like everybody else said, It was made thousands of years ago. We have scientific proof that humans and life were created from evolution, and a logical theory on how the earth was created.

Evolution explains the diversity of life, not the origin. You're thinking of abiogenesis which is isn't a full-fledged scientific theory yet.

[Hatsune Miku]

Evolution explains the diversity of life, not the origin. You're thinking of abiogenesis which is isn't a full-fledged scientific theory yet.

My mistake

[Trickster]

Im not aethist but i have like my own religion.(my beliefs and ideas)
I think because the bible is a book, it can be edited so easily and 400 years ago people thought so much which is wrong(womens role, rights of different colored people, that witchcraft is possible...) we developed complex thought and we question our religion.
I think also because if God is all forgiving then that means a mass murderer with no remorse will go to heaven. That doesnt seem right...
God i do believe in, but alot that people say he does and do i dont.

[enzenzz]

because god is supposed to be perfect, we are created in his image and likeness, therefore we must be perfect too. yet we are not.

[Sage]

because god is supposed to be perfect, we are created in his image and likeness, therefore we must be perfect too. yet we are not.

Free will.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

excactly, eve ate the fruit.(but i dont beleive in the book of genesis and most of the old testament.)

[mosaic.]

God does not exist because we choose not to believe in him/her.

God does exist because we choose to believe in him/her.

Whichever one you follow is true for you.

[Cybertone]

I don't have any reason to believe in the existence of a god, nor do I feel the need.

[Modus Operandi]

excactly, eve ate the fruit.(but i dont beleive in the book of genesis and most of the old testament.)

I'm glad to hear you don't take the old testament literally, like some people do.:eek:

I really see no evidence that god does or doesn't exist. Thus, I'm in the middle. If someone gave me abject scientific proof for either side, I'd believe it. Yes, I know about the whole "faith is blind" arguement, but that's just a bullshit cop out, IMO. I have serious beef with religion(not the concept of god).

I know for a fact no one can prove scientifically God is or isn't real, so for now, I can't prove to you that there is no god, as the thread asks. However, I can't prove for you that there IS a god either.

[Xenomi]

excactly, eve ate the fruit.(but i dont beleive in the book of genesis and most of the old testament.)

do you believe in the new testament?

[INFERNO]

because god is supposed to be perfect, we are created in his image and likeness, therefore we must be perfect too. yet we are not.

You're taking one passage and completely ignoring the rest of the bible. If you read further, you will realize that a) there's free will, b) there's a statement or commandment saying there are no others gods (if we were perfect like god, then we'd be a god also) and c) there are passages that imply god may not be omni-present and thus may not be all perfect. These are only some of the long list of arguments against what you claim. Point is, you cannot simply point to one passage and say "look, this is what it says" whilst ignoring every single other thing.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

do you believe in the new testament?

parts yes, like how jesus says we should be kind to each other and to an extent, him rising from the dead.

[enzenzz]

You're taking one passage and completely ignoring the rest of the bible. If you read further, you will realize that a) there's free will, b) there's a statement or commandment saying there are no others gods (if we were perfect like god, then we'd be a god also) and c) there are passages that imply god may not be omni-present and thus may not be all perfect. These are only some of the long list of arguments against what you claim. Point is, you cannot simply point to one passage and say "look, this is what it says" whilst ignoring every single other thing.

you do realize that the bible contradicts itself very often and was written by persons that aren't exactly eyewitnesses and most likely edited heavily by early christians.

anyway, A) free will has nothing to do with not being perfect. It even makes it more ideal because you can choose and are not hardwired to do one thing.

B) you argue that one cannot just point to one passage and yet you point to one to for your argument. well, you could say that we are part of the persona of god. like the trinity, 3 persons 1 god.

C) Christians faith is founded on the idea that god is infallible. Even the pope is deemed infallible and he is just the representative of god. Take that away and it's like saying that Jesus was just a man.

take away the myth and retain the teachings and most religions will produce the same results.

[ErykaInspire.]

I used to be a Christian until God seemed to just never appear for me.
My little brother was born in June 2000, and he fought for his life. But guess what? If God existed.. he would've saved my little brother and alot of my life wouldn't have gone to crap. But now I have to spend every day missing a life that was shown to me then torn away at my fingertips.
Then, a few years ago "God" let me get into the most life-changing experience ever. Not in a good way..

God never proved that he's there. Until he does, maybe i'll get my faith back.
Maybe when he gives me my little brother back.

I think the bible is a bunch of crap. I highly doubt that Jesus had someone follow him around writing every little thing he did/say down. God had a Son, but he didn't poop out a damn scriptor. I'm sorry for being vague. My view on God is quite brutal.
I mean, Jesus told everyone to "look to the bible and you will have your answer".. Books weren't even created until 1290!!

I just don't think any of it is legit.
If you can prove me wrong, then please do so.

(I would continue with my Theory but I'm in school and the teacher is logging onto the main computer which can view everything that we're doing. SO, i'll continue this later ^-^)

[Contra]

You know, I think the Bible was supposed to be a story book, and instead of it, people thought it was a religion to follow.

[INFERNO]

you do realize that the bible contradicts itself very often and was written by persons that aren't exactly eyewitnesses and most likely edited heavily by early christians.

I am well aware that is was written by many people and that it does contradict itself quite often. However, one of the reasons I think it's seen as so radically different and to an extent "wrong" is the large difference in society and social norms then and now. Do I think that all the stories that were told in the bible actually happened? No. I do think however that many of the statements, such as "punish someone who does/is ..." is a representation of the society back then.

I'm sure that it was edited by many people and I would think that it could lead to the numerous contradictions. However, it's not unheard of to have a book of any type and quality to be edited, to take various biases, etc... . Thus, I find your point of it being edited to be a moot point because it applies to every single book.


A) free will has nothing to do with not being perfect. It even makes it more ideal because you can choose and are not hardwired to do one thing.

The problem though is that multiple things can be considered to be "perfect" and there's numerous ways to achieve perfection. Free will does give you the choice to do whatever you wish, however, it's not mutually exclusive to perfection. Take for example god himself, he's supposed to be perfect and he chooses what he wishes to do so by that, he has free will and is supposedly perfect.


B) you argue that one cannot just point to one passage and yet you point to one to for your argument. well, you could say that we are part of the persona of god. like the trinity, 3 persons 1 god.

The difference is that you pointed to only one passage, whereas in my response, I mentioned more than one argument and attempted to integrate them.


C) Christians faith is founded on the idea that god is infallible. Even the pope is deemed infallible and he is just the representative of god. Take that away and it's like saying that Jesus was just a man.

It is founded on several ideas although that would be one of them. If you take it away, then it's distorting Christianity massively. It's like saying that mathematics is founded on addition, subtraction, multiplication and division and everything else is derived from it. If we then go about and take away addition, we've distorted our view of mathematics. So your argument here is also moot because you've shown that if you remove one of the main premises or assumptions, then the idea will be different. Well, that is to be expected to occur.


take away the myth and retain the teachings and most religions will produce the same results.

True, however, religion is defined as requiring the beliefs in order to explain various phenomena and results. It's meant to serve as some of the reasoning although not always rationale.

[deadpie]

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