fear of burning in hell

[thedudeman]

im pretty sure hell isn't real, i know it was something created by the christian political system a long time ago to scare people into worship, but when i was in 8th grade i tried to give my soul to the devil, no special charms or anything, i was just angry about how i was treated like crap in school and it made me feel "powerful", now im afraid im going to end up in hell even though satan or a demon never appeared to me, and after i gave up satanism i turned to good religion and gave my soul to a good god, right now i dont have a religion, but my anxiety is taking this whole thing out of proportion and so i can convince myself of the stupidest things
some reassuring advice would be much appreciated.

[Sage]

Perhaps looking up how Hell came about in the first place may be a little reassuring to you.

[sebbie]

im pretty sure hell isn't real, i know it was something created by the christian political system a long time ago to scare people into worship, but when i was in 8th grade i tried to give my soul to the devil, no special charms or anything, i was just angry about how i was treated like crap in school and it made me feel "powerful", now im afraid im going to end up in hell even though satan or a demon never appeared to me, and after i gave up satanism i turned to good religion and gave my soul to a good god, right now i dont have a religion, but my anxiety is taking this whole thing out of proportion and so i can convince myself of the stupidest things
some reassuring advice would be much appreciated.

To me it seems the reason you are afraid is because you have some kind of belief. If you were an atheist you would not believe in Satan thus it would have no affect on you.

[INFERNO]

If you don't have a religion then why fear something that requires a religious belief? Odds are you do believe in something, perhaps you don't formally worship it but there would probably be a belief nonetheless. So to comfort you over it, you can either try to do various deeds that prevent you or reduce your chances of going to hell or you can altogether abandon the belief of hell's existence.

[MykeSoBe]

You probably don't realize it but you're likely an atheistic Satanist ... even more particular, you're more of an LaVeyan Satanist (you view Satan as a symbol of the human future, and feel free to satisfy your urges, exhibit kindness to friends, but plot revenge at your enemies and foes); the other type of atheistic Satanist is the Modern / Symbolic Satanist (they reject all forms of worship, but otherwise similar to LaVeyan Satanists).

But then you said you were afraid of burning in Hell ... if, then, you're a plain old atheist, then I don't know why you should feel any sort of spiritual fear.

[mosaic.]

You're nearly confident that hell doesn't exist, yet still have a fear for it as if it does? That's a bit scrambled, if you ask me.

Do what you believe is right. Act with morality, and stay true to yourself. Best wishes.

[thedudeman]

its the anxiety really, it makes me believe the stupidest things
and i havn't been a satanist of any form for a long time, it was a phase i went through, i think what brought it up was watching something about deals with the devil and it made me freak out, irrational anxiety basically, very irritating

[Ripplemagne]

Your soul isn't a trinket that you can sell and pawn at your leisure. Whoever told you that is very ignorant of Judeo-Christian theology. Yes, there is a struggle between Jehovah (God) and Satan (the Devil) for your soul, but the ultimate choice comes down to the covenant cast down by Yeshua Ben Yosef (Jesus) or following all of the Jewish customs. as the latter is ridiculous and you've already nulled that as an option, the former is salvation if you believe in Judeo-Christian theology.

But a lot of words are being thrown around, so let me give you the run down on what each mean.

Atheism is disbelief in a God or Gods. This means that you do not believe in a devil either.

Satanism has many different forms, but the most common is...

LaVeyan Satanism, which is self-indulgence to the max. Imagine the Sith Code in Star Wars and you have LaVeyan Satanism.

Now, this "deal" you made is irrelevant because, as stated before, you don't make those sort of deals in this regard. The way your soul works is that sins impede on your ability to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If they are not cleansed through one of the two methods I mentioned above, then your tainted soul cannot enter. Which means that you're fair game for Satan to gobble up. Ergo, get taken to Hell.

If you believe in Hell, then maybe you should start understanding the Abrahamic religions to understand what it is that you believe in. If you really don't believe in Heaven, Hell, God or any of that, then you have nothing to worry about, right? If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

[Death]

im pretty sure hell isn't real, i know it was something created by the christian political system a long time ago to scare people into worship,

Right now, you are sounding quite athiest. This would ordinarily be fine although later, you contradict yourself.

but when i was in 8th grade i tried to give my soul to the devil, no special charms or anything, i was just angry about how i was treated like crap in school and it made me feel "powerful", now im afraid im going to end up in hell even though satan or a demon never appeared to me,

You are afraid of something which you cannot prove exists? If believing in something is causing you problems, the simple solution would be to simply not believe in irrational things like this.

and after i gave up satanism i turned to good religion and gave my soul to a good god,

How do you define, 'a good god'? Just wondering.

right now i dont have a religion, but my anxiety is taking this whole thing out of proportion and so i can convince myself of the stupidest things
some reassuring advice would be much appreciated.

If you have no religion, you are athiest. So why are you worried about some supernatural force dooming you upon death?

SIDE NOTE: I would not have thought that this is ROTW material.

Your soul isn't a trinket that you can sell and pawn at your leisure. Whoever told you that is very ignorant of Judeo-Christian theology.

One question, what is the soul? I know no part of the body named the 'soul' so it must be an abstract concept; unless you'd like to fill me in, in wich case I'd appreciate it.

Yes, there is a struggle between Jehovah (God) and Satan (the Devil) for your soul, but the ultimate choice comes down to the covenant cast down by Yeshua Ben Yosef (Jesus) or following all of the Jewish customs. as the latter is ridiculous and you've already nulled that as an option, the former is salvation if you believe in Judeo-Christian theology.

How is following Jewdaism redicilous? Following Jewdaism is no more redicilous than following any religion. Why do you insult Jewdaism? Because you don't believe in the religion?

Atheism is disbelief in a God or Gods. This means that you do not believe in a devil either.

That's what I thought. Having no religion should mean that you do not believe in the devil to my knowledge since you would be an Athiest.

Now, this "deal" you made is irrelevant because, as stated before, you don't make those sort of deals in this regard. The way your soul works is that sins impede on your ability to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If they are not cleansed through one of the two methods I mentioned above, then your tainted soul cannot enter. Which means that you're fair game for Satan to gobble up. Ergo, get taken to Hell.

Is this your way of intimidating people into following the wishes of God?

If you believe in Hell, then maybe you should start understanding the Abrahamic religions to understand what it is that you believe in. If you really don't believe in Heaven, Hell, God or any of that, then you have nothing to worry about, right? If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

True enough; thedudeman's fear (and thus belief, even if not full) in hell does not seem to be doing him any good. I'd say go with my signiture (include the devil); that way, you have nothing to worry about.

[thedudeman]

Your soul isn't a trinket that you can sell and pawn at your leisure. Whoever told you that is very ignorant of Judeo-Christian theology. Yes, there is a struggle between Jehovah (God) and Satan (the Devil) for your soul, but the ultimate choice comes down to the covenant cast down by Yeshua Ben Yosef (Jesus) or following all of the Jewish customs. as the latter is ridiculous and you've already nulled that as an option, the former is salvation if you believe in Judeo-Christian theology.

But a lot of words are being thrown around, so let me give you the run down on what each mean.

Atheism is disbelief in a God or Gods. This means that you do not believe in a devil either.

Satanism has many different forms, but the most common is...

LaVeyan Satanism, which is self-indulgence to the max. Imagine the Sith Code in Star Wars and you have LaVeyan Satanism.

Now, this "deal" you made is irrelevant because, as stated before, you don't make those sort of deals in this regard. The way your soul works is that sins impede on your ability to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If they are not cleansed through one of the two methods I mentioned above, then your tainted soul cannot enter. Which means that you're fair game for Satan to gobble up. Ergo, get taken to Hell.

If you believe in Hell, then maybe you should start understanding the Abrahamic religions to understand what it is that you believe in. If you really don't believe in Heaven, Hell, God or any of that, then you have nothing to worry about, right? If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

takin fairy tales and metaphors to literally kid
i watched a episode of supernatural in which this guy makes a deal with the devil at crossroads and the devils dogs come drag him to hell ten years later and i have severe anxiety issues which made me believe that whatever was goin down in the show was reality, thats how my anxiety works, so i feared going to hell, i gave my soul, or metaphorically gave it to the christian god, i used to follow rasta, it was an attempt to better myself, im not exactly the cleanest person on earth when it comes to sin, although who is? everybody has issues but im generally a good person, why should i be punished in hell fire with eternal pain and punishment for being a stupid fourteen year old readin some satanic bible in order to feel powerful, if god is really so great then i dont understand him sending a person to a place as bad as hell unless there on hitlers level, most people fall into the category of the middle, limbo, or maybe reincarnation, seems more suitable then eternal pain to me, or the most rational way to explain this, human beings have a fear of losing existence, so they made up the afterlife which gave them some security aka, they don't have to stop living, and hell was developed when christianity was running the government several hundred years after christs death in order to scare citizens into following, look it up, hell and the devil are equivalent to the boogeyman, this would also mean some dogs went to hell and some heaven, and don't tell me dog don't have as much of a soul(if it exists) as humans do, just because there not as intelligent does not mean they have no soul, the bible was written by humans, how can it be credible?

don't take what i said originally literally, i was having anxiety issues

[foof1]

like you said, hell is just some stupid thing that christian polititions made up to scare people into believing

[Death]

I really wouldn't worry about going to hell. Like foof1 said, it is the Christian way of trying to get people to behave their way. So long as you are a good person (do what you feel is right; no what some random book written over 2000 years ago says) and act like it, you have nothing to worry about. Don't worry about what happens after death. After all, there is nothing solid to suggest that there is any experience after death and thus, I would strongly advise you to not worry and enjoy the life you have while you can (just like my signiture says).

[Ripplemagne]

One question, what is the soul? I know no part of the body named the 'soul' so it must be an abstract concept; unless you'd like to fill me in, in wich case I'd appreciate it.

Soul
–noun
1. the principle of life, feeling, thought, and action in humans, regarded as a distinct entity separate from the body, and commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; the spiritual part of humans as distinct from the physical part.
2. the spiritual part of humans regarded in its moral aspect, or as believed to survive death and be subject to happiness or misery in a life to come: arguing the immortality of the soul.
3. the disembodied spirit of a deceased person: He feared the soul of the deceased would haunt him.
4. the emotional part of human nature; the seat of the feelings or sentiments.
5. a human being; person.
6. high-mindedness; noble warmth of feeling, spirit or courage, etc.
7. the animating principle; the essential element or part of something.
8. the inspirer or moving spirit of some action, movement, etc.
9. the embodiment of some quality: He was the very soul of tact.
10. (initial capital letter) Christian Science. God; the divine source of all identity and individuality.
11. shared ethnic awareness and pride among black people, esp. black Americans.
12. deeply felt emotion, as conveyed or expressed by a performer or artist.

How is following Jewdaism redicilous? Following Jewdaism is no more redicilous than following any religion. Why do you insult Jewdaism? Because you don't believe in the religion?

First of all, it's "Judaism". And second of all, you're misreading what I was saying. By it being ridiculous, I meant that some of the practices are not applicable to his lifestyle. Please don't make hostility where there is none.

That's what I thought. Having no religion should mean that you do not believe in the devil to my knowledge since you would be an Athiest.

Actually, atheism is a religion. (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=408674623&blogId=447498177) But yes, being an atheist would mean that you don't believe in a devil either.

Is this your way of intimidating people into following the wishes of God?

Is this your way of playing Valiant White Knight or Pseudo-Intellectual Philosopher?

A question was asked. I answered it. How you contrive that I'm trying to intimidate him into believing in anything, I couldn't say.

True enough; thedudeman's fear (and thus belief, even if not full) in hell does not seem to be doing him any good. I'd say go with my signiture (include the devil); that way, you have nothing to worry about.

So, you believe that believing in something should stem from what feels good? Sorry, but 2+2=4 no matter how much 2+2=5 makes me feel.

takin fairy tales and metaphors to literally kid

Lets try to avoid getting condescending and snarky with each others' beliefs, mmkay?

im not exactly the cleanest person on earth when it comes to sin, although who is? everybody has issues but im generally a good person, why should i be punished in hell fire with eternal pain and punishment for being a stupid fourteen year old readin some satanic bible in order to feel powerful,

You seem to be under the impression that committing sin damns you to Hell with no hope of redemption. Yes, your sins prevent you from entering Heaven, but you were very right when you said that everyone commits sins. That's where the crucifixion and atonement comes in; as we all fall short of grace, we are given the ability to cleanse those sins through the covenant left behind by Yeshua Ben Yosef.

I understand where the confusion stems from. When I was younger, I thought murdering someone = Hell. I didn't understand the intricacies of sin and how they correlated with salvation. So, your plight doesn't fall on deaf ears.

if god is really so great then i dont understand him sending a person to a place as bad as hell unless there on hitlers level,

Ah, perhaps you didn't read carefully. I never said that God sent anyone to Hell. Because he doesn't. I'm going to simplify this with a metaphor you may better understand.

Your camp councilor is hiking up a mountain and there are a plethora of courses you can take. Your camp councilor makes it very clear that if you stray off the path he's setting, you put yourself in danger. Now, you can follow your camp councilor -- perhaps come off track a few times, but find your way back -- or you can wander off. Once you wander off, your camp councilor can't protect you if danger is afoot and because of that, you are attacked by a pack of coyotes.

If you haven't guessed ,the camp councilor is God and the pack of coyotes is Satan. I don't see how it's bad jujus for God to leave very basic instructions for us to follow, so that we can reach him.

As I said before, God doesn't send anyone anywhere. If we cleanse our souls, we may enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If we don't, the sins attract evil, which gobbles us up into the lake of fire. So, in essence, we choose where we're going.

or the most rational way to explain this, human beings have a fear of losing existence, so they made up the afterlife which gave them some security aka,

The same argument can be made in contrast. Humans have a fear of believing that anything is greater than them, so they choose to be atheists. Do you see how belligerent that sounds?

and hell was developed when christianity was running the government several hundred years after christs death in order to scare citizens into following,

Cite sources?

this would also mean some dogs went to hell and some heaven, and don't tell me dog don't have as much of a soul(if it exists) as humans do, just because there not as intelligent does not mean they have no soul,

There's actually an ongoing debate over whether animals have spirits or not. I'm not going to comment on it because it's not really a topic that intertwines with this one.

the bible was written by humans, how can it be credible?

Hopefully, metaphors are your forte. Consider this: I just wrote a novel and when I'm commended for it by the tabloids and I'm interviewed, I comment with "Oh, I did not write this novel. My pen did!" The Bible was written through humans by God as novels are written through pens by humans. Savvy?

[mosaic.]

How is atheism a religion? If to practice a religion is to observe a faith, does atheism really fall in that category?

Is it not the lack of faith that makes atheism the lack of religion?

[Just a note: I am not opposed to atheism]

[Ripplemagne]

How is atheism a religion? If to practice a religion is to observe a faith, does atheism really fall in that category?

Is it not the lack of faith that makes atheism the lack of religion?

[Just a note: I am not opposed to atheism]

Did you read the link?

[thedudeman]

Soul
–noun
1. the principle of life, feeling, thought, and action in humans, regarded as a distinct entity separate from the body, and commonly held to be separable in existence from the body; the spiritual part of humans as distinct from the physical part.
2. the spiritual part of humans regarded in its moral aspect, or as believed to survive death and be subject to happiness or misery in a life to come: arguing the immortality of the soul.
3. the disembodied spirit of a deceased person: He feared the soul of the deceased would haunt him.
4. the emotional part of human nature; the seat of the feelings or sentiments.
5. a human being; person.
6. high-mindedness; noble warmth of feeling, spirit or courage, etc.
7. the animating principle; the essential element or part of something.
8. the inspirer or moving spirit of some action, movement, etc.
9. the embodiment of some quality: He was the very soul of tact.
10. (initial capital letter) Christian Science. God; the divine source of all identity and individuality.
11. shared ethnic awareness and pride among black people, esp. black Americans.
12. deeply felt emotion, as conveyed or expressed by a performer or artist.



First of all, it's "Judaism". And second of all, you're misreading what I was saying. By it being ridiculous, I meant that some of the practices are not applicable to his lifestyle. Please don't make hostility where there is none.



Actually, atheism is a religion. (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=408674623&blogId=447498177) But yes, being an atheist would mean that you don't believe in a devil either.



Is this your way of playing Valiant White Knight or Pseudo-Intellectual Philosopher?

A question was asked. I answered it. How you contrive that I'm trying to intimidate him into believing in anything, I couldn't say.



So, you believe that believing in something should stem from what feels good? Sorry, but 2+2=4 no matter how much 2+2=5 makes me feel.



Lets try to avoid getting condescending and snarky with each others' beliefs, mmkay?



You seem to be under the impression that committing sin damns you to Hell with no hope of redemption. Yes, your sins prevent you from entering Heaven, but you were very right when you said that everyone commits sins. That's where the crucifixion and atonement comes in; as we all fall short of grace, we are given the ability to cleanse those sins through the covenant left behind by Yeshua Ben Yosef.

I understand where the confusion stems from. When I was younger, I thought murdering someone = Hell. I didn't understand the intricacies of sin and how they correlated with salvation. So, your plight doesn't fall on deaf ears.



Ah, perhaps you didn't read carefully. I never said that God sent anyone to Hell. Because he doesn't. I'm going to simplify this with a metaphor you may better understand.

Your camp councilor is hiking up a mountain and there are a plethora of courses you can take. Your camp councilor makes it very clear that if you stray off the path he's setting, you put yourself in danger. Now, you can follow your camp councilor -- perhaps come off track a few times, but find your way back -- or you can wander off. Once you wander off, your camp councilor can't protect you if danger is afoot and because of that, you are attacked by a pack of coyotes.

If you haven't guessed ,the camp councilor is God and the pack of coyotes is Satan. I don't see how it's bad jujus for God to leave very basic instructions for us to follow, so that we can reach him.

As I said before, God doesn't send anyone anywhere. If we cleanse our souls, we may enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If we don't, the sins attract evil, which gobbles us up into the lake of fire. So, in essence, we choose where we're going.



The same argument can be made in contrast. Humans have a fear of believing that anything is greater than them, so they choose to be atheists. Do you see how belligerent that sounds?



Cite sources?



There's actually an ongoing debate over whether animals have spirits or not. I'm not going to comment on it because it's not really a topic that intertwines with this one.



Hopefully, metaphors are your forte. Consider this: I just wrote a novel and when I'm commended for it by the tabloids and I'm interviewed, I comment with "Oh, I did not write this novel. My pen did!" The Bible was written through humans by God as novels are written through pens by humans. Savvy?

this is some of the stupidest crap i have ever read, i watch a lot of documentaries on christianity the talk of hell as a political movement was a huge part of one ill try and find it and post a link, in the mean time, if you believe some human was possessed by god and wrote this book youve got some problems, god is supposed to be LOVING, if this is really who god is then hes just as much of a sinner as me, i mean the story of jobe? when he turns his life to shit just to prove a point to satan? what is this, it is ignorant and stupid and not the way a true just god would act, the bible is a book of metaphors kid, open your eyes it's NOT REAL, it is simply a book of guidelines for humanity to live by, and another funny thing you said about the man you have to follow is that if this were true, heaven would have a SMALL population, everybody falls off the track sometimes, those who live off the track completely, deserve a punishment of hell, not a kid like me, im a decent guy who got beat up and bullied so reading the satanic bible made me feel bad ass, now im a good person, don't believe in evil, try and do the right thing, and i don't do drugs, but somehow because i don't adhere to your beliefs i have to burn in an eternal lake of fire, hell is just a scare tactic look at it what it really is, its the boogeyman but believed by millions

have you ever read the old testament? theres no mention of hell, and that was the original bible, i went and read the quotes of jesus christ that supposedly mentioned hell and i see a million different ways to interprate them besides literally meaning your gunna go to hell and burn, oh yea, jesus, the kindest most gentle man on earth who gave himself to save humanity believes in a place of eternal torment and punishment, and the idea of lucifer, he was a metaphor for not going against gods words or beliefs, god cast him down because he would not bow to him, well there are a million ideas as to what lucifer did to piss god off so much, but the point is, god got jealous just like a human would who's power is threatened and sent lucifer to a kingdom of damnation, sounds to me like gods commiting some pretty big sins to, and he's supposed to be the guide, well it looks like your guide is as human as me

humans also have become more rational since 2000 years ago, maybe thats why they don't believe in your religion? whats wrong with following a different religion that teaches good? oh thats right, there not telling me im gunna burn for eternity unless i do what they say, this seems to me to be the biggest difference between christianity and other religions, you guys are the bullies, there the loving ones, now i know your probably gunna pick out little things in my argument and try and make me look stupid instead of actually lookin at the whole argument, so have fun

[thedudeman]

Soul




Actually, atheism is a religion. (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=408674623&blogId=447498177) But yes, being an atheist would mean that you don't believe in a devil either.



this isn't a good enough argument i don't think, that means that any sole strong belief is a religion, im not anything, you can try and throw me under some kind of label but im not anything, i dont have a religion

[sebbie]

His beliefs do not require you to believe them. He is just saying what they are.

Also you raise a key point in your post about interpriation of the bible, who is to say that he or you are interpreting it the correct way.

Also would it kill you to show a little more tolerance in your post!?

[thedudeman]

His beliefs do not require you to believe them. He is just saying what they are.

Also you raise a key point in your post about interpriation of the bible, who is to say that he or you are interpreting it the correct way.

Also would it kill you to show a little more tolerance in your post!?

good point, i just have problems with people who push the idea that eternal pain and torment is a good punishment for normal human behavior and mistakes, hard to be nice about it, but ill try

[sebbie]

good point, i just have problems with people who push the idea that eternal pain and torment is a good punishment for normal human behavior and mistakes, hard to be nice about it, but ill try

To be fair, your original post was a religion themed question, and Ripplemagne gave you a religious based answer. When I said you should try to be more tolerant I was referring to things like this:

this is some of the stupidest crap i have ever read

it is ignorant and stupid

you guys are the bullies

These 3 examples are offensive and not necessary and it is quite easy to be nice when differing in beliefs.

[/my2cents]

[mosaic.]

Actually, I did read the link. I found the interpretation to be rather undersupported and ambiguous.

[sebbie]

Actually, I did read the link. I found the interpretation to be rather undersupported and ambiguous.

I agree with you on this. Generally atheism is classed as not being a religion but when you play around with definitions you can make it seem that way.

As the article in the link suggests that religion is just a word for a group of people who band together with similar beliefs. It is not limited to people who believe in a God

[Death]

Ripplemange, the definitions you gave about the soul proves that it is merely and abstract concept. The soul cannot go anywhere; the soul is in no location.

First of all, it's "Judaism". And second of all, you're misreading what I was saying. By it being ridiculous, I meant that some of the practices are not applicable to his lifestyle. Please don't make hostility where there is none.

To me, it sounded like you were trying to warp his lifestyle.

Actually, atheism is a religion. (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=408674623&blogId=447498177) But yes, being an atheist would mean that you don't believe in a devil either.

I disagree. How is athiesm a religion? Athiesm is abstaining from religion. Quite frankly, the stuff the person in your link said is a very bad argument and besides, why can't you explain why athiesm is a religion? I am not a religious person - simple as that. But I am athiest.

Is this your way of playing Valiant White Knight or Pseudo-Intellectual Philosopher?

A question was asked. I answered it. How you contrive that I'm trying to intimidate him into believing in anything, I couldn't say.

What are you talking about? You were going on about how the soul is doomed to hell if one sins (does not follow God) which to me, sounds like a method to get people to believe; a particually intimidating method.

So, you believe that believing in something should stem from what feels good? Sorry, but 2+2=4 no matter how much 2+2=5 makes me feel.

Ths point is void. Coming to think of it, believing that 2+2=5 is the same principal as believing in God. You may as well believe that the sky is pink and an invisible fairy orbits the moon twice a month.

You seem to be under the impression that committing sin damns you to Hell with no hope of redemption. Yes, your sins prevent you from entering Heaven, but you were very right when you said that everyone commits sins. That's where the crucifixion and atonement comes in; as we all fall short of grace, we are given the ability to cleanse those sins through the covenant left behind by Yeshua Ben Yosef.

As far as I'm concerned, this is all false. Why do you believe this? Because you were taught this by some enforceful enthusiast as a child. Had this not have happened, you would be athiest. All babies are born athiest since they have not yet been brainwashed. It tends to be the toddlers that think for themselves better that remain athiests.

Your camp councilor is hiking up a mountain and there are a plethora of courses you can take. Your camp councilor makes it very clear that if you stray off the path he's setting, you put yourself in danger. Now, you can follow your camp councilor -- perhaps come off track a few times, but find your way back -- or you can wander off. Once you wander off, your camp councilor can't protect you if danger is afoot and because of that, you are attacked by a pack of coyotes.

If you haven't guessed ,the camp councilor is God and the pack of coyotes is Satan. I don't see how it's bad jujus for God to leave very basic instructions for us to follow, so that we can reach him.

Wow, you found a sceneareo which represents religion. But how in the hells does this even remotely prove that one specific religion out of so many is correct?

The same argument can be made in contrast. Humans have a fear of believing that anything is greater than them, so they choose to be atheists. Do you see how belligerent that sounds?

Actually, religious people fear death since they can't accept the fact that their life is going to have to come to an end one day and so we get Christians. Athiests however, embrace the truth. So please don't insult the lack of religion, namely athiesm.

There's actually an ongoing debate over whether animals have spirits or not. I'm not going to comment on it because it's not really a topic that intertwines with this one.

Has your God not made this clear to you yet? Or have you simply not been told this by humans yet? The latter, quite clearly, since God doesn't exist. It makes sense.

Hopefully, metaphors are your forte. Consider this: I just wrote a novel and when I'm commended for it by the tabloids and I'm interviewed, I comment with "Oh, I did not write this novel. My pen did!" The Bible was written through humans by God as novels are written through pens by humans. Savvy?

This is one of the most far-fetched concepts I've heard. Of course the bible was written by humans. 2000 or so years ago, a conspiracy decided to write a discriminitive finction novel which 'describes why we are here and what we must do and blah, bah, blah...' in order to enforce their beliefs onto others since they had no intention of researches why things are as they are scientifically since they were too damned lazy, arrogant and ignorant. My main question is, how did God write the bible?

Oh, and by the way, the OP posted here because he wanted some reassuring advice. Do you realy think that saying that if he sins, he will go to hell is reassuring? Really!? As I've said before OP, I would not worry about stuff that isn't backed up. Enjoy the life you have; don't start worrying about random things that cannot be proved like hell and any other fancy concept you decide to grab out of thin air.

[Ripplemagne]

thedudeman, I think you would benefit from structuring your posts into paragraphs. As it stands, all of your ideas are jumbled together in one heap of a textual monument. This is not meant to put you down, but I think it would be wise to separate your ideas by breaks.

this is some of the stupidest crap i have ever read, i watch a lot of documentaries on christianity the talk of hell as a political movement was a huge part of one ill try and find it and post a link,

You mean Zeitgeist? Or The God That Wasn't There? I've watched them both and anyone with any scholastic understanding of theology will find these ideas utterly laughable. But by all means, I would love to hear your evidence for this audacious claim. Because you, obviously, are an enlightened agnostic intellectual and I'm a hedonistic, jingoistic, ignorant Christian.

In all of these documentaries you've watched, how many of them are from Christian scholars? Or did you watch the Discovery Channel and take their word as law? Did you take the time to research how accurate any of their claims were? Did you take the time to impartially analyze every tidbit of information or are you playing up that lust for power again with a Holier Than Thou, condescending attitude that militant atheists are so fond of?

Side note: The last statement was not meant to offend and the word "militant" is strategically placed for a reason. I don't believe all atheists are of this mindset, but I believe the numbers are proportionate to their overzealous, rouge-cheeked theist counterparts.

f you believe some human was possessed by god and wrote this book youve got some problems,

Perhaps you could elucidate why?

god is supposed to be LOVING, if this is really who god is then hes just as much of a sinner as me, i mean the story of jobe? when he turns his life to shit just to prove a point to satan?

Actually, I'm glad you brought the Book of Job up because it's one of my favorite stories in the Old Testament. Obviously, you have a rather slanted perception of what the narrative actually speaks of, so I'm going to quote the entry in Wikipedia that gives a synopsis of the events.

There was an extremely pious man named Job. He was very prosperous and had seven sons, and three daughters. Constantly fearing that his sons may have sinned and "cursed God in their hearts" he habitually offered burnt offerings as a pardon for their sins.[2]

The angels of heaven (the Hebrew word translated as "Angels" means "the Sons of God") and Satan (literally, the Hebrew word means "the accuser" or "the adversary") present themselves to God. God asks Satan his opinion on Job, apparently a truly pious man. Satan answers that Job is only pious because he is prosperous. In response to Satan's assertion, God gives Satan permission to destroy Job's possessions and family.[3]

All of Job's possessions are destroyed and all of his offspring are killed. Job does not curse God after this but instead shaves his head, tears his clothes and says, "Naked I came out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return : YHWH has given, and YHWH has taken away; blessed be the name of YHWH" (Simplified).[4] So despite all Job's sufferings, his response is to worship the Lord.

As Job endures these calamities without reproaching Divine Providence, Satan solicits permission to afflict his person as well, and God says, "Behold, he is in your hand, but don’t touch his life." Satan, therefore, smites him with dreadful boils, and Job, seated in ashes, scrapes his skin with broken pottery. His wife prompts him to "curse God, and die" but Job answers, "You speak as one of the foolish speaks. Moreover, shall we receive good from God and shall not receive evil?" In all this, Job did not sin in his lips.

And the three of Job's friends heard all this evil that came on him, and they came every man from his place — Eliphaz the Temanite (Heb: Aliphaz the Thimanite), Bildad the Shuhite (Heb: Bildad the Shuchite), and Zophar Naamathite (Heb: Zuphar the Nomathite). A fourth, Elihu the Buzite (Heb: Alieua ben Barakal the Buzite), first begins talking in chapter 32 and bears a distinguished part in the dialogue; his arrival is not noted. The friends spend 7 days sitting on the ground with Job, without saying anything to him because they see that he is suffering and in much pain. Job at last breaks his silence and "curses the day he was born".

In the epilogue, God condemns Job's friends for their ignorance and lack of understanding while commending Job for his righteous words, commands them to prepare burnt offerings and reassures them that Job will pray for their forgiveness. Job is restored to health, gaining double the riches he possessed before and having 7 sons and 3 daughters (his wife did not die in this ordeal). His new daughters were the most beautiful in the land, and were given inheritance along with their brothers. Job is blessed once again and lives on another 140 years after the ordeal, living to see his children to the fourth generation and dying peacefully of old age.

There isn't much else to be said besides the fact that I have to address that you claimed that "God punished Job". This is not necessarily the case; he allowed Satan too, yes, but God didn't say "Hey, Job, I don't like you, so I'm going to pick on you." Quite the contrary, he admired Job so much that he knew Job could undergo these ordeals. He had faith in Job and as a byproduct, Job had faith in God.

I understand you did a bit of reading about Christianity and that makes you think that you're a whimsical aficionado of all that is biblical and theological, but at least demonstrate that you get the theme of the story instead of spouting rehashed, militant atheist paradigms.

Do you know how I know you have no idea what you're talking about? Because you don't see the viewpoint of the opposing party. Only when you can understand why the opposing party believes what they do and still disagree do you have an understanding of the concept at hand. I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I'm not the fourteen year old Cafeteria Catholics you preach your anarchic/marxist/Satanic/atheistic/whatever values to at school.

By all means, you probably make those kids look very silly because they believe, but it's hollow. Or they say they believe and don't. But don't presume that I'm cut of the same cloth that they are because I am under the same umbrella as them. Now, if you'd like to exchange opinions and probe my mind for answers, it's advised that you take a course in respect for someone else's viewpoints. I don't want this to become a series of ad hominems because this has the potential for a very productive discussion, so don't blow it by causing the thread to get locked.

hat is this, it is ignorant and stupid and not the way a true just god would act, the bible is a book of metaphors kid, open your eyes it's NOT REAL, it is simply a book of guidelines for humanity to live by,

Read above.

But kid? How old are you to be calling me kid? I sincerely hope you're at least twenty (what are you doing on a teen forum if that's the case? Either way, I highly down that you are older than sixteen if even that) because I'm eighteen. But since you're so indignant about the fact that my beliefs are because I'm a delusional, crackpot with an internet connection, how about you offer some empirical data to support it? If you're going to make a universal statement, then back it up with something subjective and valid.

and another funny thing you said about the man you have to follow is that if this were true, heaven would have a SMALL population,

I've never been there, so I can't say what the population is like. Nor am I God to even make an estimate of how many people would be given entry. But the covenant I spoke of earlier has been accepted by many people throughout history, so I would imagine it dwarfs the numbers of Hell. At least, for now.

everybody falls off the track sometimes, those who live off the track completely, deserve a punishment of hell, not a kid like me, im a decent guy who got beat up and bullied so reading the satanic bible made me feel bad ass, now im a good person, don't believe in evil, try and do the right thing, and i don't do drugs, but somehow because i don't adhere to your beliefs i have to burn in an eternal lake of fire, hell is just a scare tactic look at it what it really is, its the boogeyman but believed by millions

Did you read what I said or are you grasping at straws to avoid looking like you lost a debate? Once again, you being Satanic would not disallow you to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, provided you accepted the covenant. The covenant? Asking for forgiveness for your sins and attempting to live the best life you can through the sacrifice of one, Yeshua Ben Yosef.

Doesn't seem that difficult to understand to me, but hey, I've spent years studying theology, so I may have dissociated myself with the learning experience.

Anyway, "I'm a good person". By whose standards? Hitler thought that he was a good person. Mussolini thought that he was a good person. Timothy McVeigh thought that he was being a good person when he sent 168 people to their graves and 450 to the emergency room. But you look at them like they're bad people. So, please don't attempt to instate a universal code of right and wrong because last I checked, there are political clashes over if it's right or wrong to abort a fetus.

I understand you don't see yourself as a bad person. And that's whatever. But you use far too much rhetoric and far too many universal statements when trying to get your point across.

hell is just a scare tactic look at it what it really is, its the boogeyman but believed by millions

You're not making a case I haven't heard before. Your entire argument crumbles under the light of logic. 9/11 scared people, but does that mean that it didn't happen? Of course not. Just because something is scary doesn't mean that it's not true.

Can it be a scare tactic? It's possible, though I don't believe it is. But if you're going to tell me what my beliefs are, why don't you offer something tangible instead of "LOL UR BELEFZ SUK CUZ DEY DUM."

have you ever read the old testament? theres no mention of hell, and that was the original bible, i went and read the quotes of jesus christ that supposedly mentioned hell and i see a million different ways to interprate them besides literally meaning your gunna go to hell and burn, oh yea, jesus, the kindest most gentle man on earth who gave himself to save humanity believes in a place of eternal torment and punishment, and the idea of lucifer, he was a metaphor for not going against gods words or beliefs, god cast him down because he would not bow to him, well there are a million ideas as to what lucifer did to piss god off so much, but the point is, god got jealous just like a human would who's power is threatened and sent lucifer to a kingdom of damnation, sounds to me like gods commiting some pretty big sins to, and he's supposed to be the guide, well it looks like your guide is as human as me

It certainly does tin the King James Version. (http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=hell&version1=9&searchtype=all) You must be reading from the New International Version of the Bible. You see, there is an ongoing debate between whether the word "sheol" refers to "Hell" or "grave" and whether the word "Gehenna" has a symbolic undertone when in correlation with "sheol".

Now, what this means is that in the case of those who follow a KJV of the Bible, Hell (sheol) is the abode of the dead and will be cast into the lake of fire (Gehenna). For one who follows the NIV of the Bible, it is believed that people go to the grave and if saved, will be resurrected and death will be no more.

Honestly, both have a lot of credentials, but I find that the King James Version, the Bible which I believe has the closest translation to the original Hebrew Bible, is more accurate. Again, not all Christians believe in Hell, but from my scholastic probing over the years, I have found that the King James Version is the most linear and in sync recording of events.

The rest of this little quip is your own inner conflict with theology that I won't address because that's something you need to work out and I can't really help you with.

humans also have become more rational since 2000 years ago, maybe thats why they don't believe in your religion? whats wrong with following a different religion that teaches good? oh thats right, there not telling me im gunna burn for eternity unless i do what they say, this seems to me to be the biggest difference between christianity and other religions, you guys are the bullies, there the loving ones, now i know your probably gunna pick out little things in my argument and try and make me look stupid instead of actually lookin at the whole argument, so have fun

Because Muslims don't believe in damnation, right?

Not once did I say that you couldn't practice another religion. Not once. Where you garner that I'm attempting to force my views on you, I have no idea. You asked a question; I answered it. And now, suddenly, you're mad at me for answering your question. If I were anyone else, I'd leave you to figure things out on your own next time, but I won't ignore your plight next time because you tried to step on me this time.

Rationale has nothing to do with disparaging viewpoints. The society we live in now (at least in the western civilization) operates under freedom of religion. Whereas 2,000 years ago, the Roman Empire had no buts about slaughtering Jews and Christians alike. Or are we forgetting that Constantine had to make it legal to practice Christianity?

You can lash out against the big, mean overdog until the cows come home, but it doesn't change fact. I'm not going to go down the list of every other major religion because I feel the attack would be unprovoked, but suffice to say, in the realm of reason, your argument that Christianity is the bully because it's the most popular is asinine.

Actually, I did read the link. I found the interpretation to be rather undersupported and ambiguous.

Elaborate.

Ripplemange, the definitions you gave about the soul proves that it is merely and abstract concept. The soul cannot go anywhere; the soul is in no location.

And how does it prove that?

To me, it sounded like you were trying to warp his lifestyle.

By answering his question? He asked about Hell; I explained my understanding of it. How is that trying to warp his lifestyle? Oh, I forgot. Because I'm a crazy Christian with an agenda to convert the masses! How silly of me!

I disagree. How is athiesm a religion? Athiesm is abstaining from religion. Quite frankly, the stuff the person in your link said is a very bad argument and besides, why can't you explain why athiesm is a religion? I am not a religious person - simple as that. But I am athiest.

Why don't you read who the author is?

Atheism is a belief system. It is a religion that professes no God. It is for this reason there are atheistic religions such as Buddhism. Atheism is not the absence of religion, but the absence of believing in a God.

What are you talking about? You were going on about how the soul is doomed to hell if one sins (does not follow God) which to me, sounds like a method to get people to believe; a particually intimidating method.

You're going nowhere he. You're dropping strawmen left and right. Once again: He asked a question through a theist vessel and I answered it through a theist vessel. No one told him to believe in.

"What do you believe?"

"I believe this."

"Oh, why are you trying to intimidate him?"

Does that make sense to you?

Ths point is void. Coming to think of it, believing that 2+2=5 is the same principal as believing in God. You may as well believe that the sky is pink and an invisible fairy orbits the moon twice a month.

And why can't I say the same thing about not believing in God?

As far as I'm concerned, this is all false. Why do you believe this? Because you were taught this by some enforceful enthusiast as a child. Had this not have happened, you would be athiest. All babies are born athiest since they have not yet been brainwashed. It tends to be the toddlers that think for themselves better that remain athiests.

Wrong. On two accounts.

First of all, babies are not born as atheists. They are ignorant to the subject, so don't make a valid decision on the matter. Atheism is a doctrine that assumes that there is no God. A baby is not born saying "God does not exist" just as they aren't born saying he does.

And two, I was neither raised on nor taught my belief systems. I was baptised Catholic, but was never taught a lick of religion from anyone in my family. When I got older, I read up on everything myself and came to the decision that I did. And lo and behold? I am no longer Catholic nor do I share religious viewpoints with anyone in my family.

In fact, my mom would have no problem if I were an atheist, Buddhist, Muslim or Jedi. She allowed me to explore all of my options and I did just that. Don't attempt to psychoanalyze me because you spoke with a few fourteen year old Church goers, who don't know their elbow from their gluteal cleft when it comes to theology. They are not the same person as me.

Wow, you found a sceneareo which represents religion. But how in the hells does this even remotely prove that one specific religion out of so many is correct?

You completely disregarded the intention of that metaphor. In no way was I trying to say or imply that Christianity was superior to any other religion or trying to force anyone into believing in it. Once again, a question was asked and I answered it. The magnitude of your strawmen are horrendous because all you're doing is filibustering and stone walling this discussion, so that nothing can be discussed.

Actually, religious people fear death since they can't accept the fact that their life is going to have to come to an end one day and so we get Christians. Athiests however, embrace the truth. So please don't insult the lack of religion, namely athiesm.

How about your inability to spell your own religion's name?

By the way, you just made a fatal error in that response. Instead of addressing my refutation of your close minded jargon, you restated the same thing that I just debunked.

Tell me, is English your first language?

Has your God not made this clear to you yet? Or have you simply not been told this by humans yet? The latter, quite clearly, since God doesn't exist. It makes sense.

I haven't been told by humans yet. Because, obviously, I am fed everything I know by my overzealously religious parents that beat me into believing what I do! :( Please understand that I have no choice in the matter and your superior, all-enlightened fourteen years of dogmatic subscription to Atheists Monthly is far too much for me and I'm only arguing with you because my father will beat me with a toaster if I don't. D:

This is one of the most far-fetched concepts I've heard. Of course the bible was written by humans. 2000 or so years ago, a conspiracy decided to write a discriminitive finction novel which 'describes why we are here and what we must do and blah, bah, blah...' in order to enforce their beliefs onto others since they had no intention of researches why things are as they are scientifically since they were too damned lazy, arrogant and ignorant. My main question is, how did God write the bible?

Got the whole world figured out in fourteen years, huh?

Oh, and by the way, the OP posted here because he wanted some reassuring advice. Do you realy think that saying that if he sins, he will go to hell is reassuring? Really!? As I've said before OP, I would not worry about stuff that isn't backed up. Enjoy the life you have; don't start worrying about random things that cannot be proved like hell and any other fancy concept you decide to grab out of thin air.

*Buzzer* Wrong. He asked, specifically, about Hell -- an Abrahamic religious concept -- and wanted something beyond "LOL JUS DONT TINK ABOT IT ND IT GO AWAI." I further elucidated the concept of Hell to him to give him a broader understanding of it, which can go one of two ways; he'll get a sharper idea and convert or, as people fear the unknown, he won't worry about something that he grasps.

In fact, I reassured him that the "deal" he made was moot. Null and void under Christian theology. Whereas, you accomplished nothing by doing what? Telling him that it doesn't matter? I'm sure that's crossed his mind before. I even closed off by telling him that I'd be happy to answer any questions.

You can, kindly, hop off now.

[sebbie]

This thread delivers!

EDIT: I took out my picture because it offends people :(

[Death]

Please ignore this and look at the succeeding post; double post mistake.

[Death]

And how does it prove that?

The definitions did not define the soul as a physcial object. It is therefore an abstract concept like happiness or love or fear, etc.

By answering his question? He asked about Hell; I explained my understanding of it. How is that trying to warp his lifestyle? Oh, I forgot. Because I'm a crazy Christian with an agenda to convert the masses! How silly of me!

Correct. But I won't succumb to the nonsense that you are forcibly spewing out.

Atheism is a belief system. It is a religion that professes no God. It is for this reason there are atheistic religions such as Buddhism. Atheism is not the absence of religion, but the absence of believing in a God.

Wrong. Atheism is not a religion at all. Not everyone has a religion. Some people simply don't wish to waste their time with religion. I have no religion, okay. In fact, if Atheism is a religion (which it clearly isn't), what do you call someone without a religion?

You're going nowhere he. You're dropping strawmen left and right. Once again: He asked a question through a theist vessel and I answered it through a theist vessel. No one told him to believe

If you want to intimidate people then fine, do so. I obviously cannot dissuade you.

Wrong. On two accounts.

First of all, babies are not born as atheists. They are ignorant to the subject, so don't make a valid decision on the matter. Atheism is a doctrine that assumes that there is no God. A baby is not born saying "God does not exist" just as they aren't born saying he does.

The babies do not believe in God from birth since they have never been brainwashed into doing so let alone told about the utterly ludricous subject and thus, they are athiests. They have no religion since they have just been born and haven't been forced to have one and thus, they are athiests. Is this really so hard to understand?

And two, I was neither raised on nor taught my belief systems. I was baptised Catholic, but was never taught a lick of religion from anyone in my family. When I got older, I read up on everything myself and came to the decision that I did. And lo and behold? I am no longer Catholic nor do I share religious viewpoints with anyone in my family.

Are you seriously telling me that you belive in God simply because you found some 2000 year-old book which said so? Well, that's quite sad since it proves your gullibility and your inability to think for yourself. I almost feel sorry for you.

You completely disregarded the intention of that metaphor. In no way was I trying to say or imply that Christianity was superior to any other religion or trying to force anyone into believing in it. Once again, a question was asked and I answered it. The magnitude of your strawmen are horrendous because all you're doing is filibustering and stone walling this discussion, so that nothing can be discussed.

I really don't know why you use some of the most pointless of arguments. I won't even bother telling you what I think of this since it will simply go through one ear and filtered through the other.

How about your inability to spell your own religion's name?

Oh come on pedant, I only accidentially typed in the 'e' and the 'i' the wron way round by mistake. Why do you moan about the most pointless of things? Besides, your point's void because I do not even have a religion and don't you dare say that I do.

By the way, you just made a fatal error in that response. Instead of addressing my refutation of your close minded jargon, you restated the same thing that I just debunked.

All I did was make a similar interpretation of the belief in a God. What you said about Atheism was disgusting and all I did was gave you a similar example so how about you get off your fucking high horse and stop being so bigoted?

Tell me, is English your first language?

No, despite the fact that I am able to type English very quickly and to a high enough standard to be able to type coherantly and suitably for debate, I actually fully learned Chinese, German, Spanish and Polish before this in that order. [/SARCASM] Of course it's my first language; don't be so rude!

Got the whole world figured out in fourteen years, huh?

No. I simply have enough sense to not assume that everything is as it is because of some invisible man in the sky who created everything in a mere week.

*Buzzer* Wrong. He asked, specifically, about Hell -- an Abrahamic religious concept -- and wanted something beyond "LOL JUS DONT TINK ABOT IT ND IT GO AWAI." I further elucidated the concept of Hell to him to give him a broader understanding of it, which can go one of two ways; he'll get a sharper idea and convert or, as people fear the unknown, he won't worry about something that he grasps.

Not believing in Hell would be more reassuring than knowing that you would be damned if you didn't follow a vindictive and bigoted (according to the old testament) lord.

In fact, I reassured him that the "deal" he made was moot. Null and void under Christian theology. Whereas, you accomplished nothing by doing what? Telling him that it doesn't matter? I'm sure that's crossed his mind before. I even closed off by telling him that I'd be happy to answer any questions.

I only gave my opinion. Why worry that you will go to hell simply because your lifestyle isn'y quite the lord's? I think that you would be happier not worrying yourself over htings like this. Please don't insult my opinion.

You can, kindly, hop off now.

Since your attitude in several areas (including what I just quoted) disgusts me, I think I shall.

[sebbie]

Why is it you say that he is intimidating people?

[Ripplemagne]

The definitions did not define the soul as a physcial object. It is therefore an abstract concept like happiness or love or fear, etc.

Oh, I misread what you said. Alright, so the soul is intangible -- what's your point? Just as your example of happiness, love and fear are a part of a human being, as is the soul. No, the soul is not an organ. I'm not seeing the point you're trying to make here.

Wrong. Atheism is not a religion at all. Not everyone has a religion. Some people simply don't wish to waste their time with religion. I have no religion, okay. In fact, if Atheism is a religion (which it clearly isn't), what do you call someone without a religion?

Someone without a religion is someone who doesn't believe anything. As you, clearly, believe that there is no God, you follow a religion. I've presented anecdotal, empirical data that completely trumps what you're saying, yet you're still plugging your ears up and screaming "lalalalala".

If you want to intimidate people then fine, do so. I obviously cannot dissuade you.

Why is it you say that he is intimidating people?

Because he is intimidated by me. Which is, obviously, why he has taken up arms against me, unprovoked and refuses to relent even when it's obvious that he's wrong. He claims that I'm trying to intimidate people as transference for the fact that he, himself, is intimidated by me.

The babies do not believe in God from birth since they have never been brainwashed into doing so let alone told about the utterly ludricous subject and thus, they are athiests. They have no religion since they have just been born and haven't been forced to have one and thus, they are athiests. Is this really so hard to understand?

Atheism
–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

You lose. Again.

Are you seriously telling me that you belive in God simply because you found some 2000 year-old book which said so? Well, that's quite sad since it proves your gullibility and your inability to think for yourself. I almost feel sorry for you.

Yes, because anyone who has a belief that differs from yours is obviously close minded and misinformed on the subject. Despite the fact that I've refuted everything you've said, professed clear cut knowledge of the subjects I've spoken of, completely exposed you as being unable to grasp the subjects you criticize and endured all of your abusive comments without spouting even one back. It's funny how people paint religious people as aggressive bullies who refuse to listen to anyone else.

But I thank you because you demonstrate that there is ignorance and intolerance no matter what you believe through example. Obviously, you've been so warped by pseudo-intellectuals and your rebellious attitude to your folks that you refuse to listen to any form of reason.

See, I can make judgments too. :o

I really don't know why you use some of the most pointless of arguments. I won't even bother telling you what I think of this since it will simply go through one ear and filtered through the other.

More of this:

http://www.rockmaterials.com/dnn/Portals/0/Images/Thin%20Veneer/Stonewall%20Rustic2.JPG

Oh come on pedant, I only accidentially typed in the 'e' and the 'i' the wron way round by mistake. Why do you moan about the most pointless of things? Besides, your point's void because I do not even have a religion and don't you dare say that I do.

You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion.

And I've proven it.

And accidental, you say?

Right now, you are sounding quite athiest. This would ordinarily be fine although later, you contradict yourself.

If you have no religion, you are athiest. So why are you worried about some supernatural force dooming you upon death?

That's what I thought. Having no religion should mean that you do not believe in the devil to my knowledge since you would be an Athiest.

I disagree. How is athiesm a religion? Athiesm is abstaining from religion. Quite frankly, the stuff the person in your link said is a very bad argument and besides, why can't you explain why athiesm is a religion? I am not a religious person - simple as that. But I am athiest.

As far as I'm concerned, this is all false. Why do you believe this? Because you were taught this by some enforceful enthusiast as a child. Had this not have happened, you would be athiest. All babies are born athiest since they have not yet been brainwashed. It tends to be the toddlers that think for themselves better that remain athiests.

Actually, religious people fear death since they can't accept the fact that their life is going to have to come to an end one day and so we get Christians. Athiests however, embrace the truth. So please don't insult the lack of religion, namely athiesm.

You've mistyped it every time you've typed it. It's funny that you say "athiests" embrace the truth because so far, you've only been looking to be right. You haven't sought truth on anything.

All I did was make a similar interpretation of the belief in a God. What you said about Atheism was disgusting and all I did was gave you a similar example so how about you get off your fucking high horse and stop being so bigoted?

I'm bigoted? Lets review the chain of events of this vignette to this argument. I'm not even going to cover all of the other bigoted things you've said (find me one thing I've said that is bigoted), but I'm going to throw hard facts at you.

or the most rational way to explain this, human beings have a fear of losing existence, so they made up the afterlife which gave them some security aka,

The same argument can be made in contrast. Humans have a fear of believing that anything is greater than them, so they choose to be atheists. Do you see how belligerent that sounds?

Actually, religious people fear death since they can't accept the fact that their life is going to have to come to an end one day and so we get Christians. Athiests however, embrace the truth. So please don't insult the lack of religion, namely athiesm.

By the way, you just made a fatal error in that response. Instead of addressing my refutation of your close minded jargon, you restated the same thing that I just debunked.

Oh, yes. I'm ttly bigoted.

No, despite the fact that I am able to type English very quickly and to a high enough standard to be able to type coherantly and suitably for debate, I actually fully learned Chinese, German, Spanish and Polish before this in that order. [/SARCASM] Of course it's my first language; don't be so rude!

I was willing to let your inability to grasp simple concepts as a language barrier, but even I can't defend your rampant inanities.

Not believing in Hell would be more reassuring than knowing that you would be damned if you didn't follow a vindictive and bigoted (according to the old testament) lord.

You should have feigned English as a second language. It really would have allowed me to cut you some slack.

I only gave my opinion. Why worry that you will go to hell simply because your lifestyle isn'y quite the lord's? I think that you would be happier not worrying yourself over htings like this. Please don't insult my opinion.

You mean kind of like you've done to mine this entire thread? Something I've abstained from doing the entire time? If you disagree, find where I've said anything that insulted your views and quote them.

Since your attitude in several areas (including what I just quoted) disgusts me, I think I shall.

http://lastrow.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/agony-of-defeat.jpg

[mosaic.]

Clearly, we do not share the same perception of religion. Therefore, I don't expect to reach a consensus with this. I do not believe buddhism is a religion. Same with atheism.

Buddhism is not a religion in the sense in which that word is commonly understood, for it is not "a system of faith and worship owing any allegiance to a supernatural being."

Buddhism does not demand blind faith from its adherents. The confidence placed by a follower on the Buddha is like that of a sick person in a noted physician, or a student in his teacher. A Buddhist seeks refuge in the Buddha because it was he who discovered the path of deliverance. A Buddhist does not seek refuge in the Buddha with the hope that he will be saved by his (i.e. the Buddha's own) personal purification. The Buddha gives no such guarantee.

Atheism is the lack of religion. Both atheism and buddhism, in my eyes, are philosophies of life.

Ripplemagne, your condescending attitude overshadows otherwise intelligent ideas. You're a smart, educated guy (without a doubt), but nobody wants to engage in an intellectual debate with you if that is the attitude you want to present. Attacking someone's grammatical skills/questioning their language background is completely unnecessary, rude, and pathetic. So I'd rather "hop off" now, thanks.

[Ripplemagne]

Common understanding doesn't change what something is. Most people don't even know what a "paradox" is.

But how was my attitude any more condescending than the statements directed at me? I've been blatantly insulted and haven't reciprocated at all. What's the worst I said? "Hop off my nuts"? Something stated way after many other belligerent statements were made toward me?

As for me asking if English was his first language, you seem to be under the impression that that was an attack. I was asking because very simple logic was not computing for him and figured that might be why. I fail to see where I've been rude in any way; perhaps the fact that your opinion contrasts with mine gives it a darker portrayal than the blatantly condescending attitudes found elsewhere in this thread.

Okay. It must be me.

[Death]

Oh, I misread what you said. Alright, so the soul is intangible -- what's your point? Just as your example of happiness, love and fear are a part of a human being, as is the soul. No, the soul is not an organ. I'm not seeing the point you're trying to make here.

Basicaly, when you started blabbering on about the soul, you were basically talking bullshit. That's what I mean.

Someone without a religion is someone who doesn't believe anything. As you, clearly, believe that there is no God, you follow a religion. I've presented anecdotal, empirical data that completely trumps what you're saying, yet you're still plugging your ears up and screaming "lalalalala".

But I don't follow any religion! Is this too hard for you to fucking understand?

Because he is intimidated by me. Which is, obviously, why he has taken up arms against me, unprovoked and refuses to relent even when it's obvious that he's wrong. He claims that I'm trying to intimidate people as transference for the fact that he, himself, is intimidated by me.

Why the fuck would I be intimidated by a pathetic shit like you? You actually make me laugh since you post some of the most insulting bullshit I've ever known? Why should I fear you? Because you will pray to God and have me strike me down where I sit? Get fucking real!


Atheism
–noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

You lose. Again.

Actaully I don't since babies do not believe in God. Why? Because no one has told them to.

Yes, because anyone who has a belief that differs from yours is obviously close minded and misinformed on the subject.

That is not neccassarily true but you are narrow minded since you reverted to insults instead of debate.

Despite the fact that I've refuted everything you've said, professed clear cut knowledge of the subjects I've spoken of, completely exposed you as being unable to grasp the subjects you criticize and endured all of your abusive comments without spouting even one back. It's funny how people paint religious people as aggressive bullies who refuse to listen to anyone else.

You haven't refuted what I've said any more than me refuted what yo've said. All you have done is bashed my lack of religion and turned this into a fight. But yes, in my experience, it's been the religious people with the disgusting attitude. Not sure about yours though.

But I thank you because you demonstrate that there is ignorance and intolerance no matter what you believe through example. Obviously, you've been so warped by pseudo-intellectuals and your rebellious attitude to your folks that you refuse to listen to any form of reason.

I tolerate religion so long as they are civil. All you are doing is showing how morally low religion is so please do carry on. And no, no-one has warped me to be athiest. In fact, I get told about religion quite a lot and I simply ignore it since I choose to not believe in far-fetched and unproved concepts like religion.

See, I can make judgments too. :o

Anyone can make judgements; it's making good judgments that's teh challenge and that is where you fail.

You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion. You have a religion.

No I fucking don't! Is this too fucking hard for you to understand? I don't have a fucking religion!

Now stop telling me what I have and don't have since only I know that.

And accidental, you say?

You're going off the subject here.

You've mistyped it every time you've typed it. It's funny that you say "athiests" embrace the truth because so far, you've only been looking to be right. You haven't sought truth on anything.

Ripplemange, I got the 'e' and 'i' the wrong way round. For fuck's sake, stop acting like a toddler, grow up and get over it! And I've already sought truth long before going on this topic.

I'm bigoted?

Yes.

Lets review the chain of events of this vignette to this argument. I'm not even going to cover all of the other bigoted things you've said (find me one thing I've said that is bigoted), but I'm going to throw hard facts at you.

What I said about religion was no worse about what you have said about the lack of religion. I only posted what I said in response to the insults you threw at my lack of religion first. Oh, and the only reason you're not quoted anything bigoted that I said is because you can find none. I really don't blame you.

Oh, yes. I'm ttly bigoted.

Glad that you've finally oponed your eyes to the truth. Good for you Ripplemange!

I was willing to let your inability to grasp simple concepts as a language barrier, but even I can't defend your rampant inanities.

Because you are too damned unintelligent. If you truly don't understand, why not you piss off from RotW and go onto a different forum that doesn't require you to overwork that tiny brain of yours?

You should have feigned English as a second language. It really would have allowed me to cut you some slack.

I don't know why I even bother talking to a corpse.



But how was my attitude any more condescending than the statements directed at me? I've been blatantly insulted and haven't reciprocated at all. What's the worst I said? "Hop off my nuts"? Something stated way after many other belligerent statements were made toward me?

Insults againt Atheism, insulting my accidentially swapping the 'e' and the 'i', making it out that I do not understand English since I can't grasp simply concepts, etc.

As for me asking if English was his first language, you seem to be under the impression that that was an attack. [/QUOTE]

He was under a correct impression. You know, it says that I'm from Britain on my posts so I really don't see wy you can't read a simple word instead of attacking people.

I was asking because very simple logic was not computing for him and figured that might be why. I fail to see where I've been rude in any way [/QUOTE]

That's what pisses me off about people like you. You spew out a load of foul abuse and you fail to even realise that you are doing so.

perhaps the fact that your opinion contrasts with mine gives it a darker portrayal than the blatantly condescending attitudes found elsewhere in this thread.

Like yours?

Okay. It must be me.

Correct. Thankyou for posting the bloody obvious.

[Ripplemagne]

At this point, I'm going to hope and pray that you're a troll trying to satire militant atheists because everything you said just now involved logical fallacies beyond the level of fugazi. The bulk being stone walls and complete and utter denial of facts.

As you lack the ability to rationally discuss this topic without diverting with strawmen and using ad hominems to back up your inability to debate, you prove that you are not intelligent enough to discuss this topic with me. Anyone with a brain stem can see that.

When you hit puberty and stop acting like a whiny whelp, you can come back to me in a few years and we'll discuss this like gentlemen.

But I do thank you for being the poster child of atheistic intolerance and ignorance. gg.

[Death]

At this point, I'm going to hope and pray that you're a troll trying to satire militant atheists

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to disappoint you.

because everything you said just now involved logical fallacies beyond the level of fugazi. The bulk being stone walls and complete and utter denial of facts.

That's because you are incapable of refuting it. Don't even bother blaming me from your inability to debate.

As you lack the ability to rationally discuss this topic without diverting with strawmen and using ad hominems to back up your inability to debate, you prove that you are not intelligent enough to discuss this topic with me. Anyone with a brain stem can see that.

Anyone with half a brain stem would understand that you are a fucking troll with no intention of being civil. You disgust me. The only reason that you are insulting my inteligence is because I do not believe in God. It's bigoted, intolerant and narrow-minded people like yourself that is what makes thiss world the fucking shithole that it is.

When you hit puberty and stop acting like a whiny whelp, you can come back to me in a few years and we'll discuss this like gentlemen.

I've already hit puberty. You are a fucking troll who insults people because people do not agree with what you say. You make me sick! You clearly have no intention of discussing this like gentlmen - you are not anything liek a gentleman yourself!

But I do thank you for being the poster child of atheistic intolerance and ignorance. gg.

I also thank you for being the poster child of the sheer disgusting nature of religious people.

I knew that you would give up debate and simply resort to a block of insulting bullshit. If you cannot debate without bashing people, then piss off. You are clearly to thick to do anything other than bash people so all you are is a pathetic, self-centered arsehole! Get out of here and come back when you've grown a brain and learnt not to be the vile thug you are!

Oh, and Atheism is no religion.

[The Batman]

Ok this thread has had enough hostility :locked: