Freedoms

[Webbeardthepirate]

"CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the FREEDOM OF SPEECH, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances".

This is Jack's signature, and it got me thinking. There are four professions listed here that are protected from governement interference.

The first one is Priests and other religeous types.
The second is journalists, and bloggers too.
The third is leaders of movements like the civil rights movement. They organize the peasful protests and such. Bringing people to gether to peacably express their views about abortion, the trilateral commission or segregation.

So far nothing to object too, right? But what is the fourth profession? petition the government for redress of grievences. It is an important right I think you will all agree. But can you guess what the people who make a living petitioning the governemnt for redress of grievences is called?

They are called Lobbyists, the representatives of special interests to the governement. They work for Tabacco companies, and HMO's and Abortion rights groups. Often entire industries will pitch in for lobbyists for their common interests.

So you hear people talk about how bad special interests are, how dastardly lobbyists are. Why don't they make it illegal for people to try and influence our elected representatives, that WE elected to serve us? Well, it turns out that our forefathers thought that that is exactly what we would do, and made it a fundimental right to lobby government. They didn't call it lobbying, because the term hadn't been invented yet, they called it petitioning for redress of grievences. But they didn't mean signing a petition to put some issue on a ballot. They meant it in terms of petitioning a King or a Governor for help. Some where along the line the term was changed to lobbying, probably to try and discredit it.

So what od you think, is lobbying the fundimental right I think it is, or should we have a constitutional amendment to end it? Is a lobbyist as important as a priest, a journalist, and a protest organizer? If so, shouldn't they be afforded the same level of respect, these petitioners to the government, as the other three are given? I think they do.

(Not that I actually respect the other three very much either, I'm a pirate after all.)

[Webbeardthepirate]

addendum: Welshlad, redcar, and I think there is a canadian that posts here too. Please feel free to comment on how nuts you think our first amendment rights are, or not. An outsider can sometimes tell truths that can't be seen from the inside.


But sometimes the outsider misses nuance that affects the whole state of affairs; like a butterfly flapping its wings in a rain forrest causing the levies to break in New Orleans six months later.

When I find that butterfly, I am totally kicking its ass.

[advent_child]

im a katrina victim, i would so like to kick somethings ass. ( tree hit my house) but i disagree. i think its wrong of congressmen to take bribes or special gifts for lobbiests but i believe they have a right to lobby. lobbying is not just done by big tobacco or abortion groups, it was done by blacks seeking rights in the latter half of the twentieth century, its done by all groups from all sides. we elect our representatives based on how we THINK they will vote, often we are wrong, and we vote them out. It is as simple as this: if a congressman votes in a way he knows his state or district won't like, he wont win re election. he loses his job. its fun in a republic government just so u can be the boss over a politician... some of which have the power to make you very uncomfortable. i am glad my siggy provokes thought and i thank anyone who dosent bash me for my terrible and inconsistant spelling, im just too tired half the time to try.

[Webbeardthepirate]

Koler doesn't truck with people pointing out each other's spelling mistakes. Or actually their own, which is weird, but I'll not make an issue of it.

[kolte]

Koler doesn't truck with people pointing out each other's spelling mistakes. Or actually their own, which is weird, but I'll not make an issue of it.

how irrelevent n.n I would have to say this:

we are in a representitive government, that means your supposed to try and sway congress to think like you.......so duh lobbyists are people, swaying there rep's point of view......so whats wrong with that? besides the nice cars, houses, and vactions they buy our congressmen.

[Webbeardthepirate]

Koler makes a good point. I don't want to pay for members of congress's nice things with an even higher taxpayer supported sallery. Let them get their free trips and fancy dinners from people who want to give it to them voluntarily.

[advent_child]

there are currently passing measures in congress to stop that....or have they already been passed

[kolte]

there are currently passing measures in congress to stop that....or have they already been passed

to stop the bribery? Its not legeal anyway, its not like if they pass another law, that they will do it less, its just a corrupt system, that does not work. However, there really isnt anything we can do about it, unless we get honest representitives, and thats not likely to ever EVER happen.

[Webbeardthepirate]

Do you really think a fancy dinner and a golf outing to scotland is enough to sway someone's vote in congress? Sure, maybe some one who doesn't care either way about something could be so easily swayed, but members of Congress? And they are supposed to care about every vote, its why they ran for office, isn't it. I don't know how any one so spineless as to be so easily swayed would be an effective campaigner. Giving tens of thousands of dollers to Al Gore, George Bush, and their respective parties hasn't helped Ken Ley and the other executives at Enron a tiny bit.

As the saying goes, "A politian is the worst friend you'll ever buy." Because they turn on you as soon as the publics' mood hints at being against you, no matter what you have done for them or their friends or family.

[fdsgfg55465]

that is wrong

[kolte]

that is wrong

what is wrong? When you make unproductive posts such as that, it ticks me off, I consider one liners that do not benifit the debate to be spam. If you refuse to try and add baring to your posts then please, don't post.

[TheWizard]

Don't be so strict. Its all fun. :)

[kolte]

Don't be so strict. Its all fun. :)

Sorry Josh, but he posted like 9 oneliners and it got to me a bit. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: you know how I get when my ocd is flaring. But to the point. though lobyists buy nice things, they still have the right to be there.

[advent_child]

One billion dollars a year is spent on "corprate welfare." I support the recent measures to prevent bribing to an extreme extent. I would like to make another point, the first amendment does not just protect "four professions," it protects every american citizen. Priests aren't the only ones with freedom of religion.