Porn "Degrading to Women"?

[Reality]

This is a view that some feminists hold; that pornography is practically degrading for women, and at the same, exploits women as "sex objects" all for the sexual gratification of men. Here's an article that supports that view, apparently:

http://media.www.arbiteronline.com/media/storage/paper890/news/2005/08/22/Opinion/Porn-Is.Degrading.And.Dangerous.To.Women-2218735.shtml

I don't agree at all, both women and men do pornography, first of all, although it is mainly centred around women because the industry appeals most the straight males, but also because the woman obviously isn't some kind of slave that's forced to do it. She chooses to do it, and (in many cases) gets paid a lot of money to do it. So I don't see much of a problem.

[The Joker]

It's not degrading if they WANT to do it, and porn in general isn't degrading to women because there is also gay porn.

[AllThatIsLeft]

bullshit, it isn't degrading to women. as both males and females participate.
besides it's a job, they may be paid to fuck, but still an honest job.

[The Killjoy]

No, both males and females participate of their own free will so I see no particular reason why it would be degrading.

[Sapphire]

Porn is only degrading to women when it contains degrading acts/dialogue.

[Reality]

Porn is only degrading to women when it contains degrading acts/dialogue.
Still though.
They choose to take part in it, willingly.

[Sapphire]

Still though.
They choose to take part in it, willingly.
Choosing to take part in it stops it from being sexual assault/rape but it doesn't stop certain acts from being degrading.

[Reality]

Choosing to take part in it stops it from being sexual assault/rape but it doesn't stop certain acts from being degrading.
Mhm. But so many return to doing it, and they're paid well. Maybe it's initially degrading for them, but they get used to it. Depends on the individual.

[Sapphire]

Mhm. But so many return to doing it, and they're paid well. Maybe it's initially degrading for them, but they get used to it. Depends on the individual.
Degrading acts/dialogue will always be degrading regardless of whether they agree to it, get used to it or enjoy it.

[Reality]

Degrading acts/dialogue will always be degrading regardless of whether they agree to it, get used to it or enjoy it.
The act itself, yeah, that's degrading. But if the woman (or man!) agrees to it, and somehow likes it, s/he won't feel degraded, so it's not degrading for her/him.

[Sapphire]

The act itself, yeah, that's degrading. But if the woman (or man!) agrees to it, and somehow likes it, s/he won't feel degraded, so it's not degrading for her/him.
They are being degraded even if they don't feel like they are.

[Reality]

They are being degraded even if they don't feel like they are.
Degrading is another word for humiliating, which is an emotion, so if they don't feel it, then how?

Maybe the act is intended to be degrading, but it doesn't degrade women in some evil bad way like people think. Plus some people (not just men) find it hot.

[Sapphire]

Degrading is another word for humiliating, which is an emotion, so if they don't feel it, then how?

Maybe the act is intended to be degrading, but it doesn't degrade women in some evil bad way like people think. Plus some people (not just men) find it hot.
To degrade someone is to disgrace/dishonour them. It also means the same as debasing them.

I don't care if some people find degrading acts "hot", it doesn't make it good or right.

[Reality]

To degrade someone is to disgrace/dishonour them. It also means the same as debasing them.

I don't care if some people find degrading acts "hot", it doesn't make it good or right.
It isn't really "real", though. I'm not really into all that stuff, but I know a girl who digs that submissive crap. Those acts might be degrading, but I think that's the point in them.

There's nothing "wrong" if they all agree to it, and enjoy it. It is a kind of business afterall, and it's planned/scripted. It's pretty much acting, but being "real" when acting.

[JackOfClubs]

No, unless its rape, they choose to be there. Its not as if they are being forced to do it.

[Whisper]

There are 3 main ideologies of feminism (liberal, radical, and postmodern) don't group them all together

and no it isn't
its a business, not slavery
supply and demand

[Reality]

This is a view that some feminists hold; that....


There are 3 main ideologies of feminism (liberal, radical, and postmodern) don't group them all together
I didn't group them all together? :what:

[Camazotz]

No, porn is not degrading. Many porn stars enjoy what they do and are not offended or insulted when people make comments regarding their attractiveness.

[Whisper]

I didn't group them all together? :what:

I misread ur post sorry

[The Joker]

No, porn is not degrading. Many porn stars enjoy what they do and are not offended or insulted when people make comments regarding their attractiveness.

Exactly, it's only degrading when THEY want it to be.

[tripolar]

No because women choose to do it. Feminists have extreme views and find a lot to be degrading to women including being housewives. Men also do porn and no one says its degrading to men.

[Sapphire]

Some acts carried out in porn are degrading. That is the objective fact.
Subjective views do not alter that.

[Reality]

Some acts carried out in porn are degrading. That is the objective fact.
Subjective views do not alter that.
The fact some people willingly do it, though, doesn't make it morally wrong.

If it was sex slavery, it'd be wrong. But it's all volunteer, "degrading" acts or not.

[Sapphire]

The fact some people willingly do it, though, doesn't make it morally wrong.

If it was sex slavery, it'd be wrong. But it's all volunteer, "degrading" acts or not.
These acts are morally wrong because they are degrading. Whether people engage in them or not, that is their choice. But it doesn't make it morally right or stop it from being degrading.

[Reality]

These acts are morally wrong because they are degrading. Whether people engage in them or not, that is their choice. But it doesn't make it morally right or stop it from being degrading.
But that's the point in them sometimes. They're intended to be degrading or submissive because some people get off on that, and the fact they don't actually degrade the actors/actress taking part means there ain't nothing wrong with it.

[Sapphire]

But that's the point in them sometimes. They're intended to be degrading or submissive because some people get off on that, and the fact they don't actually degrade the actors/actress taking part means there ain't nothing wrong with it.It may be the point sometimes but it doesn't alter the fact of the matter.
A degarding act is degrading - that is an objective fact. Subjective views do not affect that at all.

[Reality]

It may be the point sometimes but it doesn't alter the fact of the matter.
A degarding act is degrading - that is an objective fact. Subjective views do not affect that at all.
Yeah, but if someone's not degraded by it, then it hardly matters.

[Zephyr]

It's a consensual display of an act of human nature.
How is that degrading?
It isn't.

If you've ever seen TV documantaries on porn stars,
They do it because they genuinely love doing it.
I watched one on Jenna Jameson before,
And she sees doing it as liberating of all things, not degrading.

Just because in nature, human women are built to be the submissive ones,
Doesn't mean that it has to be degrading.
These days you see more and more woman taking on the dominant role,
So does that make it degrading to men as well then?
Not in my opinion.

[Triceratops]

If it's degrading to women, then surely that makes it degrading to men too?

[JackOfClubs]

If it's degrading to women, then surely that makes it degrading to men too?
Good point, most people don't think about it like that. The men are in it just as much as the women.

[Reality]

If it's degrading to women, then surely that makes it degrading to men too?
Good point, most people don't think about it like that. The men are in it just as much as the women.
To be honest with you both, there are a LOT more female pornstars than male pornstars, and in most porn scenes, the woman is in the submissive (or as Sapphire says, degrading) role. This is because most (about 80%) of porn is aimed at straight adult men.

[Modus Operandi]

I took the question in a different way, like does porn degrade women in society, are they nothing more than sex symbols, etc. The way I see it is, there are certain people whose sexism could have something to do with watching too much porn where women are nothing more than slaves(but still paid to do the work, mind),but more likely it is thier upbringing and the like. Thus, this question is difficult to answer. I do think however that certain types of porn do degrade women, but not all porn. A point was raised eariler in the thread that they are paid, and that it is an honest living, albeit an odd one.

[Death]

Of course it's not degrading to women. It is no more degrading to women than it is to men. Women choose to star in porn just like men do and can be paid just like men do. Where's the women-degrading?

[drpepper21]

It's a consensual display of an act of human nature.
How is that degrading?
It isn't.

If you've ever seen TV documantaries on porn stars,
They do it because they genuinely love doing it.
I watched one on Jenna Jameson before,
And she sees doing it as liberating of all things, not degrading.

Just because in nature, human women are built to be the submissive ones,
Doesn't mean that it has to be degrading.
These days you see more and more woman taking on the dominant role,
So does that make it degrading to men as well then?
Not in my opinion.

porn stars feel empowered by their job.

[ShatteredWings]

If it's degrading to women, then surely that makes it degrading to men too?

i'd have to agree.

Plus, it's their choice on the job. Would i consiter it a respectable profession? That's not the debate here.

[YourFriend]

No, i do not consider it degrading. They accepted the offer, didn't they?

[INFERNO]

I'd consider it degrading iff there was something in it that was a degrading scene. I wouldn't say that all porn degrades women simply because not all of it does, some have degrading scenes, some don't. Some porn would also be degrading to men or possibly both genders.

However, the argument of it being degrading to women because women are in it and that sort of thinking, I find to be rather nonsensical. If it's degrading to women because women are screwing a whole bunch of guys, well, naturally it's degrading to men for the same reason.

If there's no degrading scenes, then it's not degrading.

I don't view the porn stars consenting to it as an argument against degrading. For example, let's say a girl consented to be in a film where she had to be pissed on and eat crap. Pretty gross but it's degrading to her despite her consenting to it. Why is the porno degrading? Because the scene(s) are degrading.

[Sapphire]

Inferno has summed up exactly what I was trying to say just more clearly than I think I did!

[Reality]

I don't view the porn stars consenting to it as an argument against degrading. For example, let's say a girl consented to be in a film where she had to be pissed on and eat crap. Pretty gross but it's degrading to her despite her consenting to it. Why is the porno degrading? Because the scene(s) are degrading.
Inferno has summed up exactly what I was trying to say just more clearly than I think I did!
Lawl, Inferno. I was eating lunch while I read that. >_> Ewww.
That is SICK. I can't believe people actually get off on that.

But anyway, I see what you and Sapphire are getting at, but as you both notice, even if the scene itself is degrading, I don't get where morality or right/wrong comes into it as much, seeing as the actor/actress 100% consents to it, and gets paid.

[Death]

even if the scene itself is degrading, I don't get where morality or right/wrong comes into it as much, seeing as the actor/actress 100% consents to it, and gets paid.

Agreed; that point is irrefutable and so it's clear that porn is not women-degrading.

[Sapphire]

But anyway, I see what you and Sapphire are getting at, but as you both notice, even if the scene itself is degrading, I don't get where morality or right/wrong comes into it as much, seeing as the actor/actress 100% consents to it, and gets paid.
Consent doesn't alter the nature of an act both sexual and platonic. For example, the violent act of punching someone in the gut is violent even if both parties agreed to it. It's exactly the same with acts of a degrading sexual nature.

[INFERNO]

But anyway, I see what you and Sapphire are getting at, but as you both notice, even if the scene itself is degrading, I don't get where morality or right/wrong comes into it as much, seeing as the actor/actress 100% consents to it, and gets paid.

The amount of pay you get and your consent doesn't negate something being morally right/wrong. They are both factors to include when deciding your view but they don't negate it. For example, let's say a suicide bomber agrees to well, be a suicide bomber. So he/she goes out and does his/her thing and blows 250 little kids to bits. Now, suppose another suicide bomber does the same thing, only this time, they don't consent, they're forced to do so. So another 250 kids go sky-high. The third bomber does the same only this time they're not forced but they go for the hell of it. Another 250 kids go to bits.

For each of those suicide bombers, morality comes into play. The reason is quite simple, morality reflects our personal views on something. Despite the bomber consenting, that doesn't change the outcome of 250 kids being blown to bits. Would you honestly say that for the bomber that wasn't consenting that morality matters but for the one that does, morality still doesn't matter?

[FilmStudentWannabe]

Hmmm... I thing some porn is degrading and some is not. Like is the scenerio is a healthly one night stand than it's not degrading, but if the scenerio is where a man conveinces a girl to have sex with him and than starts to yell at her and slap her while they are fucking than that would be degrading.