Suicide

[Reality]

What do you think of suicide? Of course, it's a "bad" thing, and very tragic when your friends or family members decide to take themselves out. However, do you think it's cowardly or selfish of somebody to kill themselves when the going gets tough? Seems some people do.

Personally, I say no for the most part. I've been *there* myself, and I assume some of you others do. I know what it's like to feel worthless and not belong to anyone or anything, and it all happened during my "depression months" which was around when I joined this forum. I tried taking a combination of different pills with a few glasses of stiff Jack Daniels one morning before school. It didn't work, instead I got punished for being drunk in school, seeing as it was my second time. I've also cut myself a few times. I've never really seeked help, but that's because I never needed it. I am actually fine now, but I can't reverse the embarrassment and memories of the past.

In retrospect, I agree it's "selfish". We live for ourselves, yes, but many people care about us, and its' a slap in the face to those who have tried to help us. We may be gone and unable to feel a thing, but friends and families with suffer depression for months.. maybe even years afterwards. That's not fair on them at all.

However. It kind of pisses me off when people with people with NO or at the most little experience with depression try to deem suicide as a "cowardly". In fact, it's the very opposite, everybody is afraid of dying, and to a suicidal person, dying seems more attractive. But people should try to work out their problems first, but the thing is, what happens when you can't? It's not an easy situation at all.

[Death]

Your life is your own and thus you should have the right to end it. What moral right has someone got to force you to prolong something that you may not wish to? If life is so awful for you that there's absolutely nothing worth living for, how dare anyone try to force you to continue? True, it would be nice to tink about those who aare about you and revise your thoughts on suicide, but all in all, if you want to end our life, only a selfish thug would seriously deem any attempts as wrong or unacceptable.

[Θάνατος]

Death is permanent and so is a successful suicide attempt.

Suicide is never the answer.

I know I have thought about it a lot but one thing that keeps from from doing is is the help and support I get from some of my closest friends. I also think about the people that I will leave behind and I can't bring more pain to them just because I want my pain to end.

There are always people out there to talk to find some one to talk.

[Sapphire]

It is a cowardly act.
The real courage comes from deciding to overcome the troubles in life.

[Hyper]

Heh I do think its cowardly

Running away always is

[Donkey]

Cowardly? If someone chooses, in their correct state of mind, that they do not wish to live anymore, they shouldn't be forced to continue a life that they don't want to live.

What if your family had died in a fire, you had no one in life, were very low in money and hated your work? Would you want to live? I know I wouldn't.

[Sapphire]

Jon, the most courageous thing to do in that example is to keep living. You've lost nearly everything and to still be determined to meet these difficulties head on is much braver than killing yourself.

And the percentage of people who kill themselves with a clear mind is negligible.

[Death]

I agree with Donkey. Why prolong a life if you have nothing to live for? It isn't cowardice; you are simply stopping the pain and you wouldn't miss anything.

[Sapphire]

Suicide is a way of avoiding dealing with the problems life has brought you.
But life is constantly changing. What is truly awful today will be different after a relative period of time.

[Hyper]

I agree with Donkey. Why prolong a life if you have nothing to live for? It isn't cowardice; you are simply stopping the pain and you wouldn't miss anything.

What an interesting choice of words.. Prolong and nothing to live for.

Nothing to live for is an over dramatization in every situation you still have the aspiration to be happy

You can't be sad if you werent happy atleast once in your life and you wont feel sad without wanting to be happy again

Simply put; ''stopping the pain'' is simply running away, your denying yourself the chance to be happy because your scared of facing the difficulties needed to achieve it and say whatever you want that chance is always there..

You can't talk about life using words like ''prolong'' its a one time thing and you don't get it back.

[Camazotz]

We all die eventually. Whether or not they (suicide victims) choose to end it now or let nature do it's job is up to them. But there are things in life worth living for. Pain is only temporary. I don't see suicide as cowardly, but the courageous thing to do is to die knowing your life meant something. Suicide prevents this (in most cases). I have mixed feelings, so I cannot accurately say whether or not suicide is selfish, cowardly, or both.

[Reality]

the percentage of people who kill themselves with a clear mind is negligible.
If you don't have a clear mind, and throw yourself, I don't see how it's cowardly. In fact, that's why most do.

I wasn't "afraid" during those months. I was tired, and lost the will to live. I don't think "cowardly" is the right word at all.....

Suicide is a way of avoiding dealing with the problems life has brought you.
But life is constantly changing. What is truly awful today will be different after a relative period of time.
I don't know if I agree with that.

In my case, yes, but not in everyone's. And I'm almost certain I'll get depressed again, seeing as depression has left and returned to me for the past three years now, I just reacted more majorly a few months ago.

What about people, somewhat like me, that simply are unlucky when it comes to life? What about people who have the most broken families, aren't attractive, aren't good with school or work, bullied, etc. Sometimes peoples lives just don't get better. It stays the same or gets worse.

[Church]

I'd only off myself if I was in war and about to be captured by enemies and tortured for info, A. A pistol shot to head, or pref. B. Use a grenade and take them down with me.

[Whisper]

I've attempted
and looking back it is extremely selfish
life is hard, cold and unspeakably cruel
everywhere I look theres pain, it seeps through every fiber, every pore of my being, like a sick bile in the back of my throat i taste it everywhere I go

but if you care about your loved ones at all you will not take your own life
believing that they wont miss you or they'd be better off is a cheap cop out
when it gets dark and cold you live not for yourself but for the ones you love
you do everything you can to shield them form yet more pain
no parent should have to bury their child
no sibling should be torn in half
no true friend should be left to walk the world alone
period

[INFERNO]

I view it as a very selfish and cowardly act. If it is made public then in my view you've brought a whole lot of shame to your family. The strength is to press forward and not to just call it quits because you're depressed, stressed or for whatever reason your life may seem to be too hard. Everyone has hard times, stressed time and sometimes depressed times in their lives. Some have more than others but to me, the goal is to keep going through it and not to simply call it quits forever. Hence, suicide is an extreme act of cowardice and selfishness.

[Whisper]

I disagree there it's NOT cowardly to kill yourself
selfish yes
cowardly
no

[JackOfClubs]

Suicide is always the wrong answer, no matter what. I think that it is both cowardly and selfish.

[Bougainvillea]

I'll have to agree with Carole on this one.

[Reality]

I'll have to agree with Carole on this one.
You specifically agree with her on everything! :D
Someone's crushin'.

And I said it once and I'll say it again, it's not cowardly. Cowardice is when you're in fear, in most suicide cases, you're not "scared" of going on. You're tired of life.

[Bougainvillea]

Oh yes. :) lol JK

But being tired of life is a result of excessive problems, yeah?
You're running away. Taking the easy way out. So, to me, that's cowardly. Not taking responsibility and running away is cowardly, to me,.

[Reality]

Oh yes. :) lol JK
Ahh. I knew it!

Obsidian <3 Sapphire. It is official!

But being tired of life is a result of excessive problems, yeah?
You're running away. Taking the easy way out. So, to me, that's cowardly. Not taking responsibility and running away is cowardly, to me,.
Fair enough.

I think it's harsh to call it cowardly, though. You wouldn't exactly go to a friend after he's been through loads of crap, and he's thinking of committing a suicide, "you're a coward". It makes it worse.

[Hyper]

Ahh. I knew it!

Obsidian <3 Sapphire. It is official!


Fair enough.

I think it's harsh to call it cowardly, though. You wouldn't exactly go to a friend after he's been through loads of crap, and he's thinking of committing a suicide, "you're a coward". It makes it worse.

It depends on the friend.

And just because something is harsh ( but true in my mind ) doesn't mean it shouldn't be said x.x

[Bougainvillea]

Yeah. But you can't sugar coat everything. You need the hard truth once in a while. Saying that along with other positive things will probably make them think twice. We all need that kind of encouragement when in desperate need.

[Reality]

Yeah. But you can't sugar coat everything. You need the hard truth once in a while. Saying that along with other positive things will probably make them think twice. We all need that kind of encouragement when in desperate need.
I don't sugar-coat anything, but I think "cowardly" just isn't the word to be used. It honestly doesn't help, it discourages a person who is already unwilled.

The best way to help a suicidal friend is to be supportive and non-judgemental.

[Bougainvillea]

Being supportive and non-judgemental is very reassuring. But if you don't give them the hard truth or even suggest what they're about to do won't solve anything, they'll ignore you. They'll appreciate it. But telling them "Hey. Killing yourself is NOT the answer. Not taking responsibility is cowardly. And if you lose the will to live, fine. But you're my friend, and all life is valuable. Doing this... is wrong."
I think I would think twice.

[Sapphire]

If you don't have a clear mind, and throw yourself, I don't see how it's cowardly. In fact, that's why most do.

I wasn't "afraid" during those months. I was tired, and lost the will to live. I don't think "cowardly" is the right word at all.....


I don't know if I agree with that.

In my case, yes, but not in everyone's. And I'm almost certain I'll get depressed again, seeing as depression has left and returned to me for the past three years now, I just reacted more majorly a few months ago.

What about people, somewhat like me, that simply are unlucky when it comes to life? What about people who have the most broken families, aren't attractive, aren't good with school or work, bullied, etc. Sometimes peoples lives just don't get better. It stays the same or gets worse.If you aren't thinking clearly about things (by that I mean you have mental health issues clouding things) then you shouldn't have the right to end your life. There is always something worth living for even if you can't think of what it is. Help is at hand to improve your situation (therapies, friends, family, activities and so on). No one is a lost cause and everyone can get better if they want to. There are people who have gone through truly horrific events and have come out of the other side with a smile on their face.
As Hyper said, you can't experience true happiness if you haven't experienced true sorrow.

Courage is the ability to face difficult situations and cowardice is the exact opposite. So clearly killing yourself is an act of cowardice.

I am "someone like you". I've been suicidal many times and ended up in hospital after attempting. I cried in that hospital bed. I had attempted to run away from the pain that I was in and succeeded in hurting my family more than I can quite comprehend.
It is selfish. It is cowardly.
I've been facing my problems for many years now and it's rewarding to be able to see how far I've come. So when I say that it takes more strength (and therefore more courage) to face these things than to try to kill yourself, I do know what I'm talking about.

Btw, I'm loving how you put "aren't attractive" with "having the most broken families" because they are so clearly on par with one another :rolleyes:
But being tired of life is a result of excessive problems, yeah?
You're running away. Taking the easy way out. So, to me, that's cowardly. Not taking responsibility and running away is cowardly, to me,.Exactly.

I think it's harsh to call it cowardly, though. You wouldn't exactly go to a friend after he's been through loads of crap, and he's thinking of committing a suicide, "you're a coward". It makes it worse.Of course I wouldn't say that they are being cowardly while they are in crisis. But I wouldn't say that they are being brave for considering it either. Tbh neither statement would help the individual at all. But that doesn't mean that suicide isn't a cowardly act.

[Bougainvillea]

Thank you, Carole!
That's what I was trying to say.

[Sapphire]

Thank you, Carole!
That's what I was trying to say.
Great minds think alike! :)

[The Batman]

Suicide is not cowardly, seriously the only thing that stopped me from ending it years ago is because of fear. I really think that if someone in a clear mind wants to end their life then we shouldn't interfere. Even though it's not right, what rights do we have to tell someone that they can't die when they want? And if they do then what can we do to them?

[Reality]

If you aren't thinking clearly about things (by that I mean you have mental health issues clouding things) then you shouldn't have the right to end your life. There is always something worth living for even if you can't think of what it is. Help is at hand to improve your situation (therapies, friends, family, activities and so on). No one is a lost cause and everyone can get better if they want to. There are people who have gone through truly horrific events and have come out of the other side with a smile on their face.
As Hyper said, you can't experience true happiness if you haven't experienced true sorrow.

Courage is the ability to face difficult situations and cowardice is the exact opposite. So clearly killing yourself is an act of cowardice.
What if one considers the "way out" the better, and stronger one? It takes guts to kill yourself. I suppose.

I am "someone like you". I've been suicidal many times and ended up in hospital after attempting. I cried in that hospital bed. I had attempted to run away from the pain that I was in and succeeded in hurting my family more than I can quite comprehend.
It is selfish. It is cowardly.
I've been facing my problems for many years now and it's rewarding to be able to see how far I've come. So when I say that it takes more strength (and therefore more courage) to face these things than to try to kill yourself, I do know what I'm talking about.
Alright, alright. I didn't doubt you were someone that didn't know what they were talking about, in fact you probably had it worse than me judging by that paragraph.

But not everyone succeeds at fixing themselves, so what then?

Btw, I'm loving how you put "aren't attractive" with "having the most broken families" because they are so clearly on par with one another :rolleyes:
Do I have a natural talent for getting on your nerves or something? I don't even understand that (supposed) sarcasm. :what:

I was using social extremes. Being unattractive, bullied, having a bad family, being abused, etc.

I don't get what you're saying here.

[Neverender]

I deem suicide as not an act of cowardice.

I've attempted 3 times. Most recent was last week.
When you feel as trapped as you do when your in a mind set to commit suicide, to some its a means of ultimate escape. You wont have to deal with all the bullshit you do in life anymore, when you cant face it anymore and its driven you over the edge; like abuse or bullying, because you feel you have no escape when your in a position like that. You think no one cares and that that is what your ife will always be. To others, it can even be host a much more sinister meaning of revenge, "I told you so" or "look what you've done", etc.

However, to all of those who support suicide if the person is in the right state of mind and has nothing left to live for(Jon mentioned this), I have this to say to you:

You're gonna be dead for 10 trillion years, so don't you worry don't shed no tears, just pull up your pants and take up your chance 'cause life is a beautiful thing.
[So dont cut the time you do have short]

Suicide is a stupid act. Not a cowardly act.

[Zephyr]

I've attempted suicide a few times.
Nobody ever found out until this last November,
When I finally got the courage to tell my sister and my mum that I've been having problems for years with suicide and being suicidal,
I finally realized that people do care,
That in trying to kill myself in the past,
I was being very selfish.
No matter what's going on in your life,
You need to grab the bull by the horns and deal with it.
Life goes on, life changes,
Things will get better, no matter how shitty they are.
Nobody deserves to lose a loved one to suicide.
I had a friend who shot himself in the head 2 and a half years ago.
And I tell you this: At his funeral, HALF of the student body came and mourned him. That's about 500 teenagers alone, not including family and other older people.
That is my ultimate proof that suicide is very selfish.
People do care, even if they don't know you that well.
It's sad when anybody dies.

I disagree with cowardly though.
When you're that down and out,
The last thing on your mind is fear.
Actually following through with it takes bravery,
Because it's the basic nature of all living organisms to stay alive.
It always takes bravery to go against the norm.

[Sapphire]

What if one considers the "way out" the better, and stronger one? It takes guts to kill yourself. I suppose.Unless someone is committing suicide because they have a terminal illness, they are not in their right mind. If they are not in their right mind then they are avoiding dealing with their problems by killing themselves.
It is a permanent solution for a temporary problem.

Alright, alright. I didn't doubt you were someone that didn't know what they were talking about, in fact you probably had it worse than me judging by that paragraph.

But not everyone succeeds at fixing themselves, so what then?Lol ok, first of all what do you mean by "fixing themselves"?

And what happens to these people who don't succeed "at fixing themselves"? They either give themselves the chance of getting better by living life and in turn experience episodes of happiness or they run away from their problems and kill themselves.
Life is never all sunshine and flowers but it is never all doom and gloom either.

Suicide is not cowardly, seriously the only thing that stopped me from ending it years ago is because of fear. I really think that if someone in a clear mind wants to end their life then we shouldn't interfere. Even though it's not right, what rights do we have to tell someone that they can't die when they want? And if they do then what can we do to them?The key point there being "someone in a clear mind" - no one who's suffering from mental health issues is in a clear mind.
If someone kills themselves because they believe they have nothing to live for or because they believe that God is telling them to it is very safe to say that they are in fact thinking unclearly.

I deem suicide as not an act of cowardice.

I've attempted 3 times. Most recent was last week.
When you feel as trapped as you do when your in a mind set to commit suicide, to some its a means of ultimate escape. You wont have to deal with all the bullshit you do in life anymore, when you cant face it anymore and its driven you over the edge; like abuse or bullying, because you feel you have no escape when your in a position like that. You think no one cares and that that is what your ife will always be. To others, it can even be host a much more sinister meaning of revenge, "I told you so" or "look what you've done", etc.The phrases "won't have to deal with all the bullshit" and "can't face it anymore" are typical of a cowardly attitude.
You would never find a courageous person saying that they can't face it anymore.
You would never find a courageous person avoiding problems.
You would never find a courageous person killing themselves.

[The Batman]

When I say clear mind I mean someone who's not doing it for some divine reason, because they like they have nothing else, or because they think it's turning to shit. A clear mind is someone who isn't doing it for a selfish reason. Another thing I believe in is Euthanizing people.

[Reality]

Unless someone is committing suicide because they have a terminal illness, they are not in their right mind. If they are not in their right mind then they are avoiding dealing with their problems by killing themselves.
It is a permanent solution for a temporary problem.
So, I wasn't in my right mind that morning? I think I was in the same frame of mind as ever, I wasn't "broken down", I just decided enough was enough. I regret it and all, but I'm not weak-willed or bad minded. It was a huge accumulation.

And, it isn't always a temporary problem.. what if you're in a wheelchair or confined to a bed for the rest of your life...? That would be a shitty life.

Lol ok, first of all what do you mean by "fixing themselves"?
Sorting out their issues, and all that. You know what I mean. lol.

And what happens to these people who don't succeed "at fixing themselves"? They either give themselves the chance of getting better by living life and in turn experience episodes of happiness or they run away from their problems and kill themselves.
But that outcome doesn't always come about..
Being a bully-victim, the bullying stops after a few years, because you're not at school forever, but for a while I was a loner and socially broken, some people can't fix that.. because it's how they are. Although I got past that "loner" stage, some don't..

Life is never all sunshine and flowers but it is never all doom and gloom either.
For some people.. it is one or the other, though. Permanently.


The key point there being "someone in a clear mind" - no one who's suffering from mental health issues is in a clear mind.
If someone kills themselves because they believe they have nothing to live for or because they believe that God is telling them to it is very safe to say that they are in fact thinking unclearly.
But not everybody who doesn't have a clear mind, neccesarily has a mental health issue. I don't. But yeah.. what if people do believe God is telling them to? >_> That's their belief, and cowardice doesn't come into it.

[Sapphire]

So, I wasn't in my right mind that morning? I think I was in the same frame of mind as ever, I wasn't "broken down", I just decided enough was enough. I regret it and all, but I'm not weak-willed or bad minded. It was a huge accumulation.No, you weren't thinking clearly. If you were thinking clearly then you wouldn't have done it.

And, it isn't always a temporary problem.. what if you're in a wheelchair or confined to a bed for the rest of your life...? That would be a shitty life.Wheelchair users are perfectly capable of living long, happy and productive lives. Although they will face difficulties coming to terms with having to use a wheelchair, they get over it and are able to enjoy life. I've seen a woman who's confined to bed and is paralyzed from the neck down but she had the sunniest disposition ever despite that. Neither of these will definitely render them completely incapable of having a happy life.


Sorting out their issues, and all that. You know what I mean. lol.It's possible to experience happiness before all of the issues have been fixed.
I, for example, still have unresolved issues but I still feel happy.


But that outcome doesn't always come about..
Being a bully-victim, the bullying stops after a few years, because you're not at school forever, but for a while I was a loner and socially broken, some people can't fix that.. because it's how they are. Although I got past that "loner" stage, some don't..Where are these people who don't get past that? Where are the people who never really have any friends because of their experiences of being bullied at school?
When people are able to survive and thrive after childhood sexual abuse, I find it impossible to believe that bully victims can't all do the same.

For some people.. it is one or the other, though. Permanently.Really? And where are these people? Where are these people who never experience joy, happiness and love? Where are these people who live life without knowing the bitterness of sorrow, grief and loneliness?
Everyone hurts at times and everyone experiences joy. It's life. Never do you live life with one but without the other.

But not everybody who doesn't have a clear mind, neccesarily has a mental health issue. I don't. But yeah.. what if people do believe God is telling them to? >_> That's their belief, and cowardice doesn't come into it.I said that people with mental health issues don't think clearly but that is different to what you're trying to say that I stated.
If you believe God is telling you to kill yourself then you are delusional and are very likely to have a mental health issue. It may be their belief but they aren't thinking clearly and aren't in touch with reality.

I've already explained how cowardice comes into this.

[Reality]

No, you weren't thinking clearly. If you were thinking clearly then you wouldn't have done it.
I was probably as clear as ever, seeing as it felt relieving..

Wheelchair users are perfectly capable of living long, happy and productive lives. Although they will face difficulties coming to terms with having to use a wheelchair, they get over it and are able to enjoy life. I've seen a woman who's confined to bed and is paralyzed from the neck down but she had the sunniest disposition ever despite that. Neither of these will definitely render them completely incapable of having a happy life.
But your quality of life would suck. You can try to be happy.. but you're really not. You're limited.. you can't get a job if you're disabled, you can't have children, you can't go swimming and all that. You can still laugh at jokes and stuff, but where's the fun in a life like that.

It's possible to experience happiness before all of the issues have been fixed.
I, for example, still have unresolved issues but I still feel happy.
Fair enough.

Where are these people who don't get past that? Where are the people who never really have any friends because of their experiences of being bullied at school?
When people are able to survive and thrive after childhood sexual abuse, I find it impossible to believe that bully victims can't all do the same.
It's not really fair to compare situations. But uh.. you're talking to one.

Really? And where are these people? Where are these people who never experience joy, happiness and love? Where are these people who live life without knowing the bitterness of sorrow, grief and loneliness?
Everyone hurts at times and everyone experiences joy. It's life. Never do you live life with one but without the other.
What about endless bitterness, grief and lonliness? When it goes on forever, and gets worse as time goes on?

I said that people with mental health issues don't think clearly but that is different to what you're trying to say that I stated.
If you believe God is telling you to kill yourself then you are delusional and are very likely to have a mental health issue. It may be their belief but they aren't thinking clearly and aren't in touch with reality.
Oh, I know. Society can tell you to kill yourself as well, though. And that's a blatant reality.

[Sapphire]

But your quality of life would suck. You can try to be happy.. but you're really not. You're limited.. you can't get a job if you're disabled, you can't have children, you can't go swimming and all that. You can still laugh at jokes and stuff, but where's the fun in a life like that.Actually many disabled people live active and genuinely happy lives.
Swimming is very widely recognised as a good therapy for people with all sorts of disabilities. I mean you only have to look at the paralympics to see that sport and exercise are possible for those with disabilities.
This quote highlights what I'm trying to say:Generally, they see themselves not as disabled, but as 'differently abled.' They are the way they are, and the priority for them is to get on with life. Whether from birth, illness or trauma, they make a new way of life for themselves, to the extent even, that many would not want their fully-abled body back. Think of the Paralympian - to them, it is an honour to represent their country, an achievement to win a medal. They are not second-rate athletes who cannot compete with 'real' athletes at the Olympics, they are first-rate athletes given any bodily limitations.

-- http://biid-info.org/Why_are_disabled_people_happy%3F It's not really fair to compare situations. But uh.. you're talking to one.Lol please explain how that is so because you said this in your last post:Being a bully-victim, the bullying stops after a few years, because you're not at school forever, but for a while I was a loner and socially broken, some people can't fix that.. because it's how they are. Although I got past that "loner" stage, some don't..

What about endless bitterness, grief and lonliness? When it goes on forever, and gets worse as time goes on?Again, show me someone who has never felt even a glimmer of joy despite their abundance of bitterness, grief and loneliness.

Oh, I know. Society can tell you to kill yourself as well, though. And that's a blatant reality.What relevance has that got to what was being talked about?

[Triceratops]

I disagree with cowardly though.
When you're that down and out,
The last thing on your mind is fear.
Actually following through with it takes bravery

In some circumstances, I do consider suicide to be quite cowardice, running away from your problems will confirm that. However, I do also agree with this quote.

I view suicide as an extremely selfish act.
You are putting yourself before loved ones. Life is full of complications and negativity but each problem has a solution no matter how long or hard it takes to solve it. I have been known to be suicidal but the one thing that prevented me from suicide was how guilty I felt and how much pain and despair I would be putting the people closest to me through. I can't stand the thought of how agonizing it would be for my friends and family, it makes me as a person feel cruel and horrible for doing such a thing.

[Reality]

Actually many disabled people live active and genuinely happy lives.
Swimming is very widely recognised as a good therapy for people with all sorts of disabilities. I mean you only have to look at the paralympics to see that sport and exercise are possible for those with disabilities.
This quote highlights what I'm trying to say:

Generally, they see themselves not as disabled, but as 'differently abled.' They are the way they are, and the priority for them is to get on with life. Whether from birth, illness or trauma, they make a new way of life for themselves, to the extent even, that many would not want their fully-abled body back. Think of the Paralympian - to them, it is an honour to represent their country, an achievement to win a medal. They are not second-rate athletes who cannot compete with 'real' athletes at the Olympics, they are first-rate athletes given any bodily limitations.

-- http://biid-info.org/Why_are_disabled_people_happy%3F
This is true, some people do learn to accept it, and I know of the Paralympic Games, but face it, many people also become depressed and tired of life when they become disabled. Not everyone that's confined to a wheelchair is a Paralympic athlete.

Disabled people should be allowed to kill themselves if it's what they really wish for it. I mean, what if they were in the Army or a professional rock climber before they got injured? Both active lifestyles, and it would be very hard to accept being forced to accept being disabled, whether it's mental or physical. I'm sure you've heard of many ex-military servicepeople committing suicide because they can't adapt back to life.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/13/cbsnews_investigates/main3496471.shtml

Should such people be forced to live if they don't want to?

Lol please explain how that is so because you said this in your last post:
Yes. But I still feel like a loner, I'm not, but I still get anxious around too many people and I don't trust people as easily, and I avoid gangs of people. I never did before, but it's how I am now. I don't want to die now or anything, but yeah.

Again, show me someone who has never felt even a glimmer of joy despite their abundance of bitterness, grief and loneliness.
People forced to live when they don't want to. People on suicide watch.. they still might feel happy sometimes, but they're not deep inside, if you know what I mean?

What relevance has that got to what was being talked about?
Other people themselves in general could care less/want you to die (like with me a few times, being told to cut myself and swallow a knife)

I also saw a movie based on a true story set in Ireland about 50 years ago where girls who got pregnant etc got neglected by their families and their society in general and send to live a crap life with the nuns, and nobody cared about them, really. What kind of life is that to live?

What about people in prison for life..

[Sapphire]

This is true, some people do learn to accept it, and I know of the Paralympic Games, but face it, many people also become depressed and tired of life when they become disabled. Not everyone that's confined to a wheelchair is a Paralympic athlete.It doesn't just apply to Paralympic athletes though. There are regular people living happy and active lives after becoming disabled.
http://www.efds.net/
http://www.londonsportsforum.org.uk/
These ^ would hardly exist if disabled people all moped about in their homes doing nothing and being miserable.

Disabled people should be allowed to kill themselves if it's what they really wish for it. I mean, what if they were in the Army or a professional rock climber before they got injured? Both active lifestyles, and it would be very hard to accept being forced to accept being disabled, whether it's mental or physical. I'm sure you've heard of many ex-military servicepeople committing suicide because they can't adapt back to life.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/13/cbsnews_investigates/main3496471.shtml

Should such people be forced to live if they don't want to?If they are suicidal because of disturbances in their mental state then they shouldn't have the right to commit suicide.
(I have stated that many times so why you feel the need to ask again is beyond me.)
These people need help in settling back into everyday life, not the right to kill themselves.

Yes. But I still feel like a loner, I'm not, but I still get anxious around too many people and I don't trust people as easily, and I avoid gangs of people. I never did before, but it's how I am now. I don't want to die now or anything, but yeah.Feeling like a loner and being a loner are very different. You are recovering from your experiences of being bullied and the fact that you are no longer a loner is a sign of this.

People forced to live when they don't want to. People on suicide watch.. they still might feel happy sometimes, but they're not deep inside, if you know what I mean?They are still in crisis and so hardly support your argument. People on suicide watch are perfectly capable of going on to live happy lives once they are no longer in crisis.

Other people themselves in general could care less/want you to die (like with me a few times, being told to cut myself and swallow a knife)

I also saw a movie based on a true story set in Ireland about 50 years ago where girls who got pregnant etc got neglected by their families and their society in general and send to live a crap life with the nuns, and nobody cared about them, really. What kind of life is that to live?They can overcome their difficult situations and live happily. They can be good friends, good mums, good girlfriends/wives and so on. They can get good jobs. They can get good lives. If they try for them.
Many people overcome horrific experiences everyday, it is admirable but not by any means is it rare, impossible or unrewarding.

What about people in prison for life..What about them?

[Reality]

It doesn't just apply to Paralympic athletes though. There are regular people living happy and active lives after becoming disabled.
http://www.efds.net/
http://www.londonsportsforum.org.uk/
These ^ would hardly exist if disabled people all moped about in their homes doing nothing and being miserable.
Good for them, of course they'd be the most publicised...
I know if I was that way, I'd definitely want out, because my quality of life would have been decreased to so low to nothing.

They have to be disabled forever.. god.
What if they're inelegible to work, and because it was "their fault", they didn't get a claim, so they become poor and super dependant?

If they are suicidal because of disturbances in their mental state then they shouldn't have the right to commit suicide.
(I have stated that many times so why you feel the need to ask again is beyond me.)
These people need help in settling back into everyday life, not the right to kill themselves.
Why not the right to? Nobody knows you better than yourself.
I agree with giving them all the help they need, but what if all else fails?..

Feeling like a loner and being a loner are very different. You are recovering from your experiences of being bullied and the fact that you are no longer a loner is a sign of this.
True, but the fact is I'm an effed person. Maybe not the worst, but no counselling would ever help and all that. I'm only alive because I'm a coward and regret things too easily.

They are still in crisis and so hardly support your argument. People on suicide watch are perfectly capable of going on to live happy lives once they are no longer in crisis.
I had a friend that was on Sui Watch in Year 9, he hasn't really recovered since then, nothing changed, he was emotionally dependant on some girl who fucked him over, and to this day, it's not like anything changes. I don't want him to die, but he goes for all those counselling, but I don't think it helps him.

But true, most do recover I suppose. Idk.

They can overcome their difficult situations and live happily. They can be good friends, good mums, good girlfriends/wives and so on. They can get good jobs. They can get good lives. If they try for them.
Many people overcome horrific experiences everyday, it is admirable but not by any means is it rare, impossible or unrewarding.
Yeah, I know it's the majority of people, and I'm not doubting that at all, but like I've stated a few times, there's the minority that just don't recover. They try, they fail, they try again, they fail.

What about them?
Well what's the point in living if you're gonna be boxed up forever in a maximum security prison? Nobody wants them alive, hell that's why you're there, and although I don't support them getting the death penalty, would it be cowardly for them?

That's what I mean by society.

[Sapphire]

Good for them, of course they'd be the most publicised...
I know if I was that way, I'd definitely want out, because my quality of life would have been decreased to so low to nothing.

They have to be disabled forever.. god.
What if they're inelegible to work, and because it was "their fault", they didn't get a claim, so they become poor and super dependant?There are different types of benefits and the such like to help people who can't work because of a disability. So they are aided financially, they aren't just left to rot in a corner.

Why not the right to? Nobody knows you better than yourself.
I agree with giving them all the help they need, but what if all else fails?..People who have disturbed mental states aren't thinking clearly. Giving them the right to end their own lives without question is as sensible as giving a drunk person the right to drive their car into a brick wall.
If we give these soldiers the right help in settling back into society why would they need to kill themselves?

True, but the fact is I'm an effed person. Maybe not the worst, but no counselling would ever help and all that. I'm only alive because I'm a coward and regret things too easily.Counselling isn't for everyone and it is by no means the only therapy. Someone in your position, for example, would benefit more from confidence building exercises instead of counselling.

I had a friend that was on Sui Watch in Year 9, he hasn't really recovered since then, nothing changed, he was emotionally dependant on some girl who fucked him over, and to this day, it's not like anything changes. I don't want him to die, but he goes for all those counselling, but I don't think it helps him.His journey obviously isn't over then. If he's still that troubled then there are clearly still some major issues which haven't been addressed. Once he is able to address these major issues then he is as capable of being happy as you and I.

Yeah, I know it's the majority of people, and I'm not doubting that at all, but like I've stated a few times, there's the minority that just don't recover. They try, they fail, they try again, they fail.And where are these people? Give me examples.
The only people I can think of that would possibly fit that description are the people who commit suicide...

Well what's the point in living if you're gonna be boxed up forever in a maximum security prison? Nobody wants them alive, hell that's why you're there, and although I don't support them getting the death penalty, would it be cowardly for them?

That's what I mean by society.The point in imprisoning people for commiting crimes revolves around the need for them to pay back their debt to society and the need to rehabilitate them.
Actually, people do want them alive. If no one did then the death penalty would be enforced everywhere.
A prisoner dying because of the death penalty is murder. A prisoner committing suicide is cowardly just as it is for everyone else.

[Reality]

There are different types of benefits and the such like to help people who can't work because of a disability. So they are aided financially, they aren't just left to rot in a corner.
Not everywhere.

Some countries don't have benefits/welfare, like third world countries, and in some of them countries they're not cared about at all. They're already poor, what's more if they're disabled? Extreme point I know, but well, yeah...

People who have disturbed mental states aren't thinking clearly. Giving them the right to end their own lives without question is as sensible as giving a drunk person the right to drive their car into a brick wall.
If we give these soldiers the right help in settling back into society why would they need to kill themselves?
I guess you kinda got me there.

But y'know, what if people who have sane minds can decide to kill themselves simply because they want to. Nobody's ever did that, but lets say if they did? It'd be very selfish, but not cowardly. They're not running away from anything!

Counselling isn't for everyone and it is by no means the only therapy. Someone in your position, for example, would benefit more from confidence building exercises instead of counselling.

His journey obviously isn't over then. If he's still that troubled then there are clearly still some major issues which haven't been addressed. Once he is able to address these major issues then he is as capable of being happy as you and I.
I know. But what I'm also saying is, what if it's in his or someones personality and mind to just be pessimistic or nihilistic on life because of past experiences? It's not removeable and it's difficult to try and change their views on life, because it's who they are...

And where are these people? Give me examples.
The only people I can think of that would possibly fit that description are the people who commit suicide...
.. I was gonna say that before I read that second line. But anyways, old people in the 80-100 years old range. All their friends and family are dead, and they've pretty much lived life.

People with brain-damage.... they may recover and be able to function, but it's like.. that's it. That's all they can. They forget everything easily, and just stop caring, all they think about themselves is that they're not all together put together. I know that because I live with one. But to them, there's no difference if they're dead or alive. Sure, they're not sane and don't have a healthy mentality (by FAR they don't), but yeah.. why live.

The point in imprisoning people for commiting crimes revolves around the need for them to pay back their debt to society and the need to rehabilitate them.
Actually, people do want them alive. If no one did then the death penalty would be enforced everywhere.
A prisoner dying because of the death penalty is murder. A prisoner committing suicide is cowardly just as it is for everyone else.
They're put there for that reason, but if you think of it from their shoes, they don't really have any reason to live. They can't be really happy, they can't reproduce, they don't even have freedom.

But on the death penalty, in the places that do, I find it kind of stupid you're not allowed to kill yourself before the execution. I mean you're gonna die anyway, and stuff, not that I support it.

I don't know. I just don't think it's "cowardly" (I know where you're coming from, though) and that they shouldn't have the rights over their lives. I think it's silly to force someone to live. I think cowardly's the wrong word for it, tbh.

[Bougainvillea]

What I say to people who lose the "will to live" because of problems. Problems THEY caused.

"Grow up. Take responsibility for your self. Because you are the only one who will. I grew up from my mistakes and I learned. You act like nobody cares. You act like we don't see you. You act like this will affect not one person. It will. It's a selfish act. An act that cannot be justified."

That's what I'd say. Because it's true. Killing yourself is cowardly and selfish. Inconsiderate, heartbreaking. It could create a domino effect. It's...cruel. Cruel to those around you that care.

[Reality]

What I say to people who lose the "will to live" because of problems. Problems THEY caused.

"Grow up. Take responsibility for your self. Because you are the only one who will. I grew up from my mistakes and I learned. You act like nobody cares. You act like we don't see you. You act like this will affect not one person. It will. It's a selfish act. An act that cannot be justified."

That's what I'd say. Because it's true. Killing yourself is cowardly and selfish. Inconsiderate, heartbreaking. It could create a domino effect. It's...cruel. Cruel to those around you that care.
While I agree on the fact it is a selfish act, the prolems aren't caused by themselves. If you've been bullied or abused all your life, it's not your fault..
What "mistakes"?

[Sapphire]

Not everywhere.

Some countries don't have benefits/welfare, like third world countries, and in some of them countries they're not cared about at all. They're already poor, what's more if they're disabled? Extreme point I know, but well, yeah...Is that the only thing you are going to argue that point with? An extreme situation? It's hardly convincing.
And the inhabitants of those countries have poor standards of living so using the logic you have expressed in this thread, they should all kill themselves anyway.

But y'know, what if people who have sane minds can decide to kill themselves simply because they want to. Nobody's ever did that, but lets say if they did? It'd be very selfish, but not cowardly. They're not running away from anything!If it's never happened after humans have been around for all these thousands of years then it's not going to happen in the future. It is also completely irrelevant.

I know. But what I'm also saying is, what if it's in his or someones personality and mind to just be pessimistic or nihilistic on life because of past experiences? It's not removeable and it's difficult to try and change their views on life, because it's who they are...If they are pessimistic then they are pessimistic. They aren't incapable of being happy. They aren't doomed to be depressed and shrouded by dark rain clouds for the whole of their lives. Being pessimistic doesn't change the fact that there is always something to live for or that they would be running away from their problems.

.. I was gonna say that before I read that second line. But anyways, old people in the 80-100 years old range. All their friends and family are dead, and they've pretty much lived life.Not everyone who reaches those sorts of ages is alone. Significant others, children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, friends. These are all relationships that many who reach 80/90/100 will have. My great grandma died at the age of 96. She was happy and surrounded by friends and family. Even a couple of months before she died she was joking about and laughing with us.

People with brain-damage.... they may recover and be able to function, but it's like.. that's it. That's all they can. They forget everything easily, and just stop caring, all they think about themselves is that they're not all together put together. I know that because I live with one. But to them, there's no difference if they're dead or alive. Sure, they're not sane and don't have a healthy mentality (by FAR they don't), but yeah.. why live.Not all brain damage results in the same difficulties btw. I've addressed why people of poor mental states shouldn't be able to kill themselves so I'll go straight to the question of "why live?". Everyone has someone they hold dear and they, in turn, are loved by someone. That should be reason enough. But they can bring joy to others and others can bring joy to them - yes, pain and suffering will come hand-in-hand with this but it by no means cancels out the good things that come.

They're put there for that reason, but if you think of it from their shoes, they don't really have any reason to live. They can't be really happy, they can't reproduce, they don't even have freedom.And they chose that fate. Everyone knows that if you commit a crime then you should be prepared to accept the consequences.

But on the death penalty, in the places that do, I find it kind of stupid you're not allowed to kill yourself before the execution. I mean you're gonna die anyway, and stuff, not that I support it.

I don't know. I just don't think it's "cowardly" (I know where you're coming from, though) and that they shouldn't have the rights over their lives. I think it's silly to force someone to live. I think cowardly's the wrong word for it, tbh.The whole point behind the death penalty is to punish them. Letting them commit suicide would render the death penalty useless.

Think what you will, but hardly anyone would agree that making a suicidal person live is silly.

[Reality]

Is that the only thing you are going to argue that point with? An extreme situation? It's hardly convincing.
And the inhabitants of those countries have poor standards of living so using the logic you have expressed in this thread, they should all kill themselves anyway.
no. I don't think anyone should kill themselves. But it should be a choice, and is one technically, even if people think it's cowardly, you won't stop someone who does want to kill themselves. It's near impossible.

If it's never happened after humans have been around for all these thousands of years then it's not going to happen in the future. It is also completely irrelevant.
Well, it's purely theoretical, and it is relevant. It's about suicide and the right to do it, and whether it's cowardly or not.

If they are pessimistic then they are pessimistic. They aren't incapable of being happy. They aren't doomed to be depressed and shrouded by dark rain clouds for the whole of their lives. Being pessimistic doesn't change the fact that there is always something to live for or that they would be running away from their problems.
Happy is an emotion, you can be happy on the outside, but within you're really not. And to a pessimistic person that's suicidal as one can be, to them, there isn't anything to live for... not in their eyes.

Not everyone who reaches those sorts of ages is alone. Significant others, children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, friends. These are all relationships that many who reach 80/90/100 will have. My great grandma died at the age of 96. She was happy and surrounded by friends and family. Even a couple of months before she died she was joking about and laughing with us.
Not all have families and friends. The one's that never had children don't get grandchildren, and some are distanced from brothers/sisters, probably by death. Ugh. I notice I'm taking the negative side of things here.

And they chose that fate. Everyone knows that if you commit a crime then you should be prepared to accept the consequences.
Unless of course it was unjust/they feel it was unjust, which isn't uncommon.

The whole point behind the death penalty is to punish them. Letting them commit suicide would render the death penalty useless.

Think what you will, but hardly anyone would agree that making a suicidal person live is silly.
If I were to put to death, I'd rather kill myself than let the police do it. And it arrives at the same conclusion anyway. The convict is dead. It just amazes me that in America they even put death row inmates on suicide watch.

Making or encouraging them to live, also? I encourage suicidal people to live. But why make them? If I saw someone about to commit suicide, I would try to help and everything, but I'd still afterwards feel it was their right... it's their life, and they are the masters of their life. It's a selfish decision, yeah, but still theirs.

[INFERNO]

What I say to people who lose the "will to live" because of problems. Problems THEY caused.

"Grow up. Take responsibility for your self. Because you are the only one who will. I grew up from my mistakes and I learned. You act like nobody cares. You act like we don't see you. You act like this will affect not one person. It will. It's a selfish act. An act that cannot be justified."

That's what I'd say. Because it's true. Killing yourself is cowardly and selfish. Inconsiderate, heartbreaking. It could create a domino effect. It's...cruel. Cruel to those around you that care.

I agree with most of this. The part I don't necessarily agree with is that the problems are not always due to the suicidal person. Certainly they may help the problems intensify but I would not say that they cause all the problems. They probably cause some of them though. It's an act that even if you do manage to live from (i.e. a suicide attempt but someone managed to rescue you), then you've still degraded yourself and bringing immense shame to your family. If the person manages to stop themselves, then I'll give them an ounce more respect but I still do view it as degrading themselves and bringing shame to their family.

I do however agree with it being an extreme act of selfishness and cowardice. Generally, it does create a domino effect.

However, I'm unsure on whether I'd call it heartbreaking. It's certainly inconsiderate, possibly heartbreaking for some of the families but I would wager a guess that many families would be more filled with shame, disgust and loathing than heartbreaking, especially if the person only attempted to disgusting act.

[Sapphire]

no. I don't think anyone should kill themselves. But it should be a choice, and is one technically, even if people think it's cowardly, you won't stop someone who does want to kill themselves. It's near impossible.Suicidal people are normally just very desperate and so by getting them to choose life, make life changes and go into therapy you are doing them more good than saying that it's their choice whether to commit suicide.

Well, it's purely theoretical, and it is relevant. It's about suicide and the right to do it, and whether it's cowardly or not.It goes against nature. We all have a natural drive to survive and so what you are talking about is an impossibility.
However, if it were to happen then it would be inexplicable.

Happy is an emotion, you can be happy on the outside, but within you're really not. And to a pessimistic person that's suicidal as one can be, to them, there isn't anything to live for... not in their eyes.Even pessimistic people don't remain suicidal forever. Once they have come out the other end of their suicidality then they have the same ability to be happy as anyone else.

Not all have families and friends. The one's that never had children don't get grandchildren, and some are distanced from brothers/sisters, probably by death. Ugh. I notice I'm taking the negative side of things here.It is very hard indeed to reach 90 years old without having a social support network of friends and/or family. It is also very hard to reach such an age without a fairly active lifestyle.

Unless of course it was unjust/they feel it was unjust, which isn't uncommon.In that case they can concentrate on getting qualifications, having therapy and basically being a model inmate so that they can get released sooner. Many inmates get qualifications in criminal law so they can try to find a loophole or something to get them released.

If I were to put to death, I'd rather kill myself than let the police do it. And it arrives at the same conclusion anyway. The convict is dead. It just amazes me that in America they even put death row inmates on suicide watch.So would I. But that is something they don't want to happen because it takes the feeling of justice being served away, I guess.


Making or encouraging them to live, also? I encourage suicidal people to live. But why make them? If I saw someone about to commit suicide, I would try to help and everything, but I'd still afterwards feel it was their right... it's their life, and they are the masters of their life. It's a selfish decision, yeah, but still theirs.I was only talking about the view that making someone continue to live despite their suicidality is silly as that was what you had brought up.

If someone is hell bent on killing themselves then they obviously need a lot of help. Their right to this help is greater than their right to kill themselves.

[Reality]

Suicidal people are normally just very desperate and so by getting them to choose life, make life changes and go into therapy you are doing them more good than saying that it's their choice whether to commit suicide.
They do have the right to therapy and help, but many still choose to throw themselves.

It goes against nature. We all have a natural drive to survive and so what you are talking about is an impossibility.
However, if it were to happen then it would be inexplicable.
The world is mad, so it wouldn't suprise me if someone killed themselves out of curiousity. >_>

It is very hard indeed to reach 90 years old without having a social support network of friends and/or family. It is also very hard to reach such an age without a fairly active lifestyle.
Active, but used up. Many old people also "want to die" after they get to a certain age. They're kind of suicidal.. they've lived a fulfilled a life, should we force them to live?

In that case they can concentrate on getting qualifications, having therapy and basically being a model inmate so that they can get released sooner. Many inmates get qualifications in criminal law so they can try to find a loophole or something to get them released.
I heard somewhere the highest qualification you can get in prison (in England) is GCSE English. lol. But yeah, not all life sentences mean you can get parole.

Wouldn't it just be so depressing to get sentenced to 203 years in prison, 'cause that's guarenteed for life.

I was only talking about the view that making someone continue to live despite their suicidality is silly as that was what you had brought up.

If someone is hell bent on killing themselves then they obviously need a lot of help. Their right to this help is greater than their right to kill themselves.
They do have the right to help... and some still choose to die...

[Sapphire]

They do have the right to help... and some still choose to die...They do have the right to therapy and help, but many still choose to throw themselves.Many do it because they aren't getting help or they aren't getting the right sort of help. If you have someone who's unemployed and at risk of losing their house which is causing them to consider suicide then putting them in counselling isn't going to be the best suited help for them and they most likely won't get better. However, giving them somewhere they can get tailored help for their situation (in such forms of improving CVs and interview techniques for example) then they are much less likely to top themselves.

The world is mad, so it wouldn't suprise me if someone killed themselves out of curiousity. >_>Is there any evidence of this happening?

Active, but used up. Many old people also "want to die" after they get to a certain age. They're kind of suicidal.. they've lived a fulfilled a life, should we force them to live?How are they "used up"?
Where are these old people who "want to die"? Do you mean people who have done a lot of what they wanted to do and wouldn't argue if death came for them one day? If so then that is hardly being suicidal.

I heard somewhere the highest qualification you can get in prison (in England) is GCSE English. lol. But yeah, not all life sentences mean you can get parole.No, they can get university degrees too.

And in the UK no life sentence comes without the chance of parole. Other countries have it that a maximum period of time has to be served and/or a set amount of time before parole is considered.

Where isn't it granted? (excluding conflict zones)

Wouldn't it just be so depressing to get sentenced to 203 years in prison, 'cause that's guarenteed for life.You wouldn't recieve a sentence that severe if they didn't have just cause. To be sentenced to imprisonment for that long a time it would be well deserved and if one feels depressed over receiving it then that's a damn good thing.

[Reality]

Many do it because they aren't getting help or they aren't getting the right sort of help. If you have someone who's unemployed and at risk of losing their house which is causing them to consider suicide then putting them in counselling isn't going to be the best suited help for them and they most likely won't get better. However, giving them somewhere they can get tailored help for their situation (in such forms of improving CVs and interview techniques for example) then they are much less likely to top themselves.
Well, things like that would help, definitely. But some people reject help.. so to speak. You can't force help on them either. >_>


Is there any evidence of this happening?
Well no.
But not just curiousity, but for religious/patriotic reasons too. Kamikazi(sp*) pilots in WWII would do such things.

Also, what if somebody believed in some special after-life, and that by killing themselves they'd achieve it? >_>

How are they "used up"?
Where are these old people who "want to die"? Do you mean people who have done a lot of what they wanted to do and wouldn't argue if death came for them one day? If so then that is hardly being suicidal.
No, some old people actually are suicidal because they feel fulfilled and feel it's their time to go. Like this UK WWI vet that died recently, he's been wanting to die since 2001 when his daughter died.

No, they can get university degrees too.

And in the UK no life sentence comes without the chance of parole. Other countries have it that a maximum period of time has to be served and/or a set amount of time before parole is considered.

Where isn't it granted? (excluding conflict zones)

You wouldn't recieve a sentence that severe if they didn't have just cause. To be sentenced to imprisonment for that long a time it would be well deserved and if one feels depressed over receiving it then that's a damn good thing.
203 years = LIFEEEEEE
And yeah, here in the UK, you can get like 143 years for accumulated crimes.
I saw a movie (it was on True Movies so it must be based on a true story) where these two parents in USA got like 300 or so years combined for something they didn't do to their kids.

Point beingggg. Life in prison = You're dead anyway

[YourFriend]

I think it's a cowardly act.

[Sapphire]

Well, things like that would help, definitely. But some people reject help.. so to speak. You can't force help on them either. >_>That maybe so but it doesn't make suicide right.

Well no.
But not just curiousity, but for religious/patriotic reasons too. Kamikazi(sp*) pilots in WWII would do such things.

Also, what if somebody believed in some special after-life, and that by killing themselves they'd achieve it? >_> Then these people aren't thinking clearly, are they?

No, some old people actually are suicidal because they feel fulfilled and feel it's their time to go. Like this UK WWI vet that died recently, he's been wanting to die since 2001 when his daughter died.I can't find anything that actually states that Harry Patch was definitely suicidal. If he was then that would have more likely have been grief from losing his daughter.

203 years = LIFEEEEEE
And yeah, here in the UK, you can get like 143 years for accumulated crimes.
I saw a movie (it was on True Movies so it must be based on a true story) where these two parents in USA got like 300 or so years combined for something they didn't do to their kids.

Point beingggg. Life in prison = You're dead anywayWhat film was that or even better what were their names? I'd be interested in reading that.

[Reality]

Then these people aren't thinking clearly, are they?
Are you saying that people that believe in things like that aren't clear minded and possibly mental ill? >_> That was just what they believed. Like suicide bombers do. NOT saying what they do is right, but what they do to themselves is of pure free will.


I can't find anything that actually states that Harry Patch was definitely suicidal. If he was then that would have more likely have been grief from losing his daughter.
But he'd been wanting to die ever since then.. that's what it said on something I read on Yahoo.

What film was that or even better what were their names? I'd be interested in reading that.
I haven't seen that film since I was like 11, I just remember it being on True Movies and the parents getting sentenced to over 200-300 years for something.

Anyway, why does it matter? :what: It was an example, you've probably heard of people being sentenced for 100+ years in prison.

[OnlyByTheNight.]

I don't think suicide is selfish, I just think it is very sad that a person feels they have no other way out of their problems other then killing themselves..... There are always people you can talk to about your problems and eventually you will overcome the problem.
Suicide is a long term solution to a temporary problem.

[Sapphire]

Are you saying that people that believe in things like that aren't clear minded and possibly mental ill? >_> That was just what they believed. Like suicide bombers do. NOT saying what they do is right, but what they do to themselves is of pure free will.They aren't necessarily mentally ill but they definitely are not thinking clearly.
The Japanese kamikaze pilots were given "brutal training" to put them in the right mindset to carry out the task.
Killing oneself for religious reasons clearly indicates that they are not thinking about their religion properly either because there aren't any religions which promote this action.
To commit suicide for patriotic reasons also clearly indicates that they are not considering the matter clearly. A prime example of this comes from the last few weeks and months of WW2 - many Germans committed suicide because they were so convinced that if the Third Reich was to come to an end then there wouldn't be anything worth living for.

But he'd been wanting to die ever since then.. that's what it said on something I read on Yahoo.I can't find any article on yahoo confirming this. However, I have found quotes from people who knew him about how even recently he had a good sense of humor, felt honoured to be present at memorials for those who had died during The Great War and had a twinkle about him. A very different picture to the one you're painting.

I haven't seen that film since I was like 11, I just remember it being on True Movies and the parents getting sentenced to over 200-300 years for something.

Anyway, why does it matter? :what: It was an example, you've probably heard of people being sentenced for 100+ years in prison.It matters because you are using it in a discussion to illustrate a point but when I want to look it up to discuss it with you, I can't find it (or anything even vaguely resembling it). I have never heard of someone being sentenced for over 100 years without being guilty either.
I've found a case of a daughter and her lover killing her family and receiving 200-300 years each but that's different to what you were saying not only in those details but also in the fact that they are guilty.

[Bougainvillea]

While I agree on the fact it is a selfish act, the prolems aren't caused by themselves. If you've been bullied or abused all your life, it's not your fault..
What "mistakes"?

Some people who commit suicide, have problems they created. Take responsibility for what you've done and take care of these problems. People will even kill themselves over financial problems. My aunt did.

[Whisper]

Some people who commit suicide, have problems they created. Take responsibility for what you've done and take care of these problems. People will even kill themselves over financial problems. My aunt did.
financial problems can be the deepest darkest holes you can have
its not that easy to just "fix" them

I'm truly sorry about your aunt

[Reality]

They aren't necessarily mentally ill but they definitely are not thinking clearly.
The Japanese kamikaze pilots were given "brutal training" to put them in the right mindset to carry out the task.
Killing oneself for religious reasons clearly indicates that they are not thinking about their religion properly either because there aren't any religions which promote this action.
To commit suicide for patriotic reasons also clearly indicates that they are not considering the matter clearly. A prime example of this comes from the last few weeks and months of WW2 - many Germans committed suicide because they were so convinced that if the Third Reich was to come to an end then there wouldn't be anything worth living for.
Yeah, but still. It's really what they believed in. Brutal training, propaganda or not, they still volunteered for it knowing what could happen. Just like those Muslim extremist suicide bombers, sure they're brainwashed, but they're not stupid, but probably just scared, that's why they're given that training/doctrine, but they still want to do it.

I can't find any article on yahoo confirming this. However, I have found quotes from people who knew him about how even recently he had a good sense of humor, felt honoured to be present at memorials for those who had died during The Great War and had a twinkle about him. A very different picture to the one you're painting.
It was from before he died, I think around the time of that memorial, me thinks. I think I looked it up on Y!A when I was trolling on it.

I don't really save stuff like that, so that's my fault. lol...

But the quote resembled something like "He'd felt like he wanted to die ever since his daughter died in 2001" or something. It doesn't mean he was stereotypically suicidal, but he did feel it was his time to go.

It matters because you are using it in a discussion to illustrate a point but when I want to look it up to discuss it with you, I can't find it (or anything even vaguely resembling it). I have never heard of someone being sentenced for over 100 years without being guilty either.
I've found a case of a daughter and her lover killing her family and receiving 200-300 years each but that's different to what you were saying not only in those details but also in the fact that they are guilty.
I really can't remember.. and I can't find it anywhere myself, but it was on once or twice.

They were thought to be guilty, but they were really innocent. The ending had their grown sons arguing against the court, and they were both released after like 20 years, because some woman tried to frame them for something they didn't do to the kids, something like multiple amounts of sexual abuse or something along those lines. Don't ask me how it added up to them getting hundreds of years in prison combined, 'cause I ain't got a clue, nevermind a good memory.

But yeah. Life without parole/hundreds of years in prison pretty much guarentees spending the rest of your life boxed up, guilty or not.

Hell, what about 50 years in prison wrongly? That means if you supposedly commit a crime when you're 30, you're out at 80, so your life is ruined.

Some people who commit suicide, have problems they created. Take responsibility for what you've done and take care of these problems. People will even kill themselves over financial problems. My aunt did.
It depends on why they ended up in financial problems. A bad economy isn't their fault, but gambling and drinking your money away is.

[Bougainvillea]

When I say financial reasons, I mean "Yo shit aint together". Gambling, drinking, etc.

[Reality]

When I say financial reasons, I mean "Yo shit aint together". Gambling, drinking, etc.
Oh, yeah, that's more or less inflicted.

[Bougainvillea]

My aunt did.
Didn't want to deal with it so she shot herself.

[Sapphire]

Yeah, but still. It's really what they believed in. Brutal training, propaganda or not, they still volunteered for it knowing what could happen. Just like those Muslim extremist suicide bombers, sure they're brainwashed, but they're not stupid, but probably just scared, that's why they're given that training/doctrine, but they still want to do it.If someone is brainwashed then they aren't thinking clearly. Full stop.

It was from before he died, I think around the time of that memorial, me thinks. I think I looked it up on Y!A when I was trolling on it.

I don't really save stuff like that, so that's my fault. lol...

But the quote resembled something like "He'd felt like he wanted to die ever since his daughter died in 2001" or something. It doesn't mean he was stereotypically suicidal, but he did feel it was his time to go.Considering that I can't find a single thing to collaborate that claim and many to support the notion that he was glad to be alive I think it's pretty conclusive.

I really can't remember.. and I can't find it anywhere myself, but it was on once or twice.

They were thought to be guilty, but they were really innocent. The ending had their grown sons arguing against the court, and they were both released after like 20 years, because some woman tried to frame them for something they didn't do to the kids, something like multiple amounts of sexual abuse or something along those lines. Don't ask me how it added up to them getting hundreds of years in prison combined, 'cause I ain't got a clue, nevermind a good memory.Until I see something to collaborate this I'm dismissing it.

But yeah. Life without parole/hundreds of years in prison pretty much guarentees spending the rest of your life boxed up, guilty or not.Life without parole doesn't necessarily equate to being imprisoned until one's dying day.
A sentence that lasts 100 years isn't handed out on a whim. It's actually rare to be given one that long and you have to have done something truly awful with damning evidence against you. So if you receive it, you deserve it.

Hell, what about 50 years in prison wrongly? That means if you supposedly commit a crime when you're 30, you're out at 80, so your life is ruined.Who does this happen to?
I've seen cases of a maximum of 27 years served after wrongful imprisonment but that was due to the lack of DNA testing carried out in the original investigation and after his numerous appeals.

[Reality]

Life without parole doesn't necessarily equate to being imprisoned until one's dying day.
A sentence that lasts 100 years isn't handed out on a whim. It's actually rare to be given one that long and you have to have done something truly awful with damning evidence against you. So if you receive it, you deserve it.

Who does this happen to?
I've seen cases of a maximum of 27 years served after wrongful imprisonment but that was due to the lack of DNA testing carried out in the original investigation and after his numerous appeals.
Even so, even if you did do something wrong, you wouldn't want to spend forever in prison. Especially if you didn't do it, and 27 years is a long time!

Like that Ian Huntley dude that killed them two girls in 2002, I don't support what he did at all, but considering he's in prison for life (minimum of 40 years), I can see why he wanted to kill himself.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1564437/Ian-Huntley-attempts-suicide.html

Plus, when you commit a crime, you get a red mark all across your record, so it's hard to do anything with your life after. I've never heard of any successful ex-criminals, except for ones that went back in the Mafia.

[Sapphire]

Even so, even if you did do something wrong, you wouldn't want to spend forever in prison. Especially if you didn't do it, and 27 years is a long time!

Like that Ian Huntley dude that killed them two girls in 2002, I don't support what he did at all, but considering he's in prison for life (minimum of 40 years), I can see why he wanted to kill himself.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1564437/Ian-Huntley-attempts-suicide.html

Plus, when you commit a crime, you get a red mark all across your record, so it's hard to do anything with your life after. I've never heard of any successful ex-criminals, except for ones that went back in the Mafia.It doesn't matter if you don't want it because you deserve it. I didn't want to be put on report at school but I deserved it so I had no real right to moan about it. The same applies to prisoners.

He deserves that sentence (if not longer tbh) and whether he wants to die or not he shouldn't be allowed to.

It is possible for ex-cons to get a job and they are actually more likely to be trusted and employed than someone with a history of mental health issues. So in the grand scheme of things these people aren't as persecuted as you imagine.

But we digress, this is about suicide and not prison sentences or the treatment of ex-convicts.

[Reality]

It doesn't matter if you don't want it because you deserve it. I didn't want to be put on report at school but I deserved it so I had no real right to moan about it. The same applies to prisoners.
Report card FTW.
But yeah, prisoners might not feel they deserved such a sentence and lose their will to live, and thus commit suicide.

He deserves that sentence (if not longer tbh) and whether he wants to die or not he shouldn't be allowed to.
He, himself would of course beg to differ...
But yeah, prisoners that are in for a long time like that, regardless of whether they deserve it or not, might feel suicidal.

People on Suicide Watch, if they're over a certain age, shouldn't be forced to undergo it. It's supposed to be horrible, and is really in effect, a punishment for them.

The right to help may be better than the right to commit suicide, but people are still in charge of their own lives, and if they have tried everything else and STILL want to commit suicide.. to I don't know.. join their families or friends, should we stop them?

[Sapphire]

Report card FTW.
But yeah, prisoners might not feel they deserved such a sentence and lose their will to live, and thus commit suicide.

He, himself would of course beg to differ...
But yeah, prisoners that are in for a long time like that, regardless of whether they deserve it or not, might feel suicidal.That may be so but they don't and shouldn't have the right to commit suicide.

People on Suicide Watch, if they're over a certain age, shouldn't be forced to undergo it. It's supposed to be horrible, and is really in effect, a punishment for them.As I have previously demonstrated, people who want to commit suicide aren't thinking clearly. For this reason (regardless of age) they are not granted the right to do it.

The right to help may be better than the right to commit suicide, but people are still in charge of their own lives, and if they have tried everything else and STILL want to commit suicide.. to I don't know.. join their families or friends, should we stop them?Yes, we should. They are not in a sound state of mind and because of this don't and shouldn't be able to choose.

[Reality]

That may be so but they don't and shouldn't have the right to commit suicide.

As I have previously demonstrated, people who want to commit suicide aren't thinking clearly. For this reason (regardless of age) they are not granted the right to do it.

Yes, we should. They are not in a sound state of mind and because of this don't and shouldn't be able to choose.
How do you judge someone that has a sound state of mind? A person might not be depressed or grieving and still want to commit suicide, it surely can't be all that rare for someone with a straight head to commit suicide.

What about people who plan their suicide over a period of time? I used to, and still somewhat do, I always used to tell myself and other people that when my dad dies, I'll kill myself. I know it sounds odd and stupid, but I did. This was before I was ever depressed, and I was like 9 or 10.

Those two Columbine boys planned to kill themselves after they were done.

lol 69 replies.

[Sapphire]

How do you judge someone that has a sound state of mind? A person might not be depressed or grieving and still want to commit suicide, it surely can't be all that rare for someone with a straight head to commit suicide.

What about people who plan their suicide over a period of time? I used to, and still somewhat do, I always used to tell myself and other people that when my dad dies, I'll kill myself. I know it sounds odd and stupid, but I did. This was before I was ever depressed, and I was like 9 or 10.

Those two Columbine boys planned to kill themselves after they were done.
The Columbine boys were very clearly disturbed so how does that support your argument?

People who plan their suicide over time are not thinking clearly. I'm sorry to say it, but you weren't thinking clearly when you made those plans. Yes, losing a parent is awful and difficult to deal with but it isn't the end of all the good things life brings.
When someone is thinking clearly they acknowledge that life has its difficulties but that good things still happen. Even pessimists will agree that life brings good things and bad things.

By sound state of mind I meant that there isn't anything that's clouding the persons way of viewing the situation. You don't have to have depression or a similar condition to not be able to think about something clearly.

[Reality]

The Columbine boys were very clearly disturbed so how does that support your argument?
Well, my point was leaning towards to whole planning thing. I know they were disturbed, but it was planned for quite some time. It wasn't the spur of the moment.

People who plan their suicide over time are not thinking clearly. I'm sorry to say it, but you weren't thinking clearly when you made those plans. Yes, losing a parent is awful and difficult to deal with but it isn't the end of all the good things life brings.
When someone is thinking clearly they acknowledge that life has its difficulties but that good things still happen. Even pessimists will agree that life brings good things and bad things.
I doubt I would, now, but that was even when I was 9 and 10. I didn't think of it as suicide, but I believed in heaven and stuff then, and yeah. It was stupiddddd.

By sound state of mind I meant that there isn't anything that's clouding the persons way of viewing the situation. You don't have to have depression or a similar condition to not be able to think about something clearly.
I see.

I don't really have anything more to argue with, to be honest, definitely nothing that would make you change your mind, lol. I don't know anymore. :confused:

[Sapphire]

Well, my point was leaning towards to whole planning thing. I know they were disturbed, but it was planned for quite some time. It wasn't the spur of the moment.But their obviously disturbed states of mind goes against the whole point you were trying to make about planning suicide.

I doubt I would, now, but that was even when I was 9 and 10. I didn't think of it as suicide, but I believed in heaven and stuff then, and yeah. It was stupiddddd.Yet another example of someone who wasn't thinking clearly while considering it...

I see.

I don't really have anything more to argue with, to be honest, definitely nothing that would make you change your mind, lol. I don't know anymore. :confused:There are some who believe that people should have the right to commit "rational suicide" I argue that no suicide is rational other than that committed by the terminally ill.

But suicide is a cowardly act and I have given many points to support this. You gave me a number of extreme examples in a number of unsuccessful attempts to disprove me...I fear that your feelings about your past (and maybe your present - but of that I'm not sure) are what's preventing you from seeing the validity of my point.

[Reality]

Yet another example of someone who wasn't thinking clearly while considering it...
It wasn't just a consideration, it's how I felt about it for a long time. I don't know if I actually would've.

There are some who believe that people should have the right to commit "rational suicide" I argue that no suicide is rational other than that committed by the terminally ill.

But suicide is a cowardly act and I have given many points to support this. You gave me a number of extreme examples in a number of unsuccessful attempts to disprove me...I fear that your feelings about your past (and maybe your present - but of that I'm not sure) are what's preventing you from seeing the validity of my point.
I agree it's selfish, and I don't think people SHOULD commit suicide, I don't support any suicides, but it's like a right over yourself.. I don't know if I think it's cowardly, but I guess it's running away from stuff. Cowardly seems harsh..

I believe in euthanasia too, and that those who assist someone in suicide aren't murderers.

[Sapphire]

It wasn't just a consideration, it's how I felt about it for a long time. I don't know if I actually would've.Ok, I'll rephrase: "Another example of someone who wasn't thinking clearly while planning it..."
Better?

I agree it's selfish, and I don't think people SHOULD commit suicide, I don't support any suicides, but it's like a right over yourself.. I don't know if I think it's cowardly, but I guess it's running away from stuff. Cowardly seems harsh..
How is suicide brave though?
Some are avoiding and running away from problems and the pain that life can bring. While others have patterns of thinking that are so messed up that they can't see the wood for the trees (kamikaze pilots and nazi's in the last weeks of WW2 for example).
How is any of it braver than choosing to live?

And trust me, by telling a suicidal person that it's brave to commit suicide you will only screw up their thinking patterns even more.

[Reality]

Ok, I'll rephrase: "Another example of someone who wasn't thinking clearly while planning it..."
Better?


How is suicide brave though?
Some are avoiding and running away from problems and the pain that life can bring. While others have patterns of thinking that are so messed up that they can't see the wood for the trees (kamikaze pilots and nazi's in the last weeks of WW2 for example).
How is any of it braver than choosing to live?

And trust me, by telling a suicidal person that it's brave to commit suicide you will only screw up their thinking patterns even more.
It isn't brave either, although it takes guts to actually commit suicide, but I'd never tell anyone they were brave if they were going to commit suicide, because that would be encouraging it.

It is braver to go on living, yeah. I think suicide should be the very last resort.

You wouldn't call a person-about-to-commit-suicide a coward either. Neither would work, really.

[Sapphire]

It isn't brave either, although it takes guts to actually commit suicide, but I'd never tell anyone they were brave if they were going to commit suicide, because that would be encouraging it.

It is braver to go on living, yeah. I think suicide should be the very last resort.

You wouldn't call a person-about-to-commit-suicide a coward either. Neither would work, really.
Yes, neither would work.

But if suicide isn't brave then it is cowardly. It's as simple as that.

[Reality]

Yes, neither would work.

But if suicide isn't brave then it is cowardly. It's as simple as that.
I still feel it's neither, closer maybe, to cowardice, but yeah.

How did you feel about it during the times you attempted it yourself? I assume that was years ago.

I just don't agree it's cowardly, though if they're not in their right mind, cowardly is such a negative word and all. You'd call a person who attacked a child as part of a group a coward, but someone who commits suicide is different to a coward.

Being abused or bullied for years and feeling alone, and like there's no way out isn't an easy situation. Or feeling that no one cares, it might not be a clear thinking frame, but the people causing their problems are the real cowards.

[Sapphire]

I still feel it's neither, closer maybe, to cowardice, but yeah.

How did you feel about it during the times you attempted it yourself? I assume that was years ago.I felt lost, ashamed, alone, desperate and to complicate things I'd just got out of a sexually abusive relationship. I had planned how I was going to do it and everything. I decided one day that I'd had enough of the pain and executed my plan. It landed me in hospital on a drip to try to prevent any permanent damage. While there I came to feel worse about having tried to kill myself than I did about the prospect of facing my problems.
My counsellor actually said in the session we had after this happened that it was brave of me to try it. Because of my state of mind at the time I agreed as it made me feel better about what I'd done. However, about a month later I realised that OD'ing hadn't been the brave decision I made that day - the brave decision I had made was to choose life!
Since this I've made a number of changes in my life and I'm much happier now than I have been at any given point in the last decade.

I just don't agree it's cowardly, though if they're not in their right mind, cowardly is such a negative word and all. You'd call a person who attacked a child as part of a group a coward, but someone who commits suicide is different to a coward.So you just don't like the word?
You do realise that there are different forms of cowardice - as there are different forms of bravery and aggression - don't you? While the group who attack someone who's alone is a coward, they are not the only types of coward in existence.

Being abused or bullied for years and feeling alone, and like there's no way out isn't an easy situation. Or feeling that no one cares, it might not be a clear thinking frame, but the people causing their problems are the real cowards.Abusers/bullies are cowards, but so are the victims that kill themselves.

[Reality]

I felt lost, ashamed, alone, desperate and to complicate things I'd just got out of a sexually abusive relationship. I had planned how I was going to do it and everything. I decided one day that I'd had enough of the pain and executed my plan. It landed me in hospital on a drip to try to prevent any permanent damage. While there I came to feel worse about having tried to kill myself than I did about the prospect of facing my problems.
My counsellor actually said in the session we had after this happened that it was brave of me to try it. Because of my state of mind at the time I agreed as it made me feel better about what I'd done. However, about a month later I realised that OD'ing hadn't been the brave decision I made that day - the brave decision I had made was to choose life!
Since this I've made a number of changes in my life and I'm much happier now than I have been at any given point in the last decade.
Well, it's good you survived that and recovered, or at least are still recovering, but mostly recovered. Your friends and family must'a been glad.
:)

I tried something similar a few months ago, I don't 100% remember why, but I was overthinking while I couldn't sleep, and just decided I'd try die on random pills with alcohol, but the only thing that happened was I got caught being drunk. I can't even pass out from it, but everyone else does. But yeah, it's embarrassing to think of. Thank God nobody ever knew about them various times I tried, though. Sure, I go back to feeling that way, but I always get over it again.

So you just don't like the word?
You do realise that there are different forms of cowardice - as there are different forms of bravery and aggression - don't you? While the group who attack someone who's alone is a coward, they are not the only types of coward in existence.
I do. But it's usually applied in such a negative way.
The meaning is kinda true, though.

Abusers/bullies are cowards, but so are the victims that kill themselves.
I getcha.

[Sapphire]

Well, it's good you survived that and recovered, or at least are still recovering, but mostly recovered. Your friends and family must'a been glad.
:)My friends deserted me and my mum evidently still holds it against me so I wouldn't go that far.

I tried something similar a few months ago, I don't 100% remember why, but I was overthinking while I couldn't sleep, and just decided I'd try die on random pills with alcohol, but the only thing that happened was I got caught being drunk. I can't even pass out from it, but everyone else does. But yeah, it's embarrassing to think of. Thank God nobody ever knew about them various times I tried, though. Sure, I go back to feeling that way, but I always get over it again.The fact that you get over it each time is really good.

It also goes to show that life deals us both good and bad hands.

I do. But it's usually applied in such a negative way.
The meaning is kinda true, though.That because cowardice isn't positive.
But nice to see you agreeing that the meaning is "kinda true"

[Reality]

My friends deserted me and my mum evidently still holds it against me so I wouldn't go that far.

The fact that you get over it each time is really good.

It also goes to show that life deals us both good and bad hands.
Ahh. Sorry for assuming.
And, yes.


That because cowardice isn't positive.
But nice to see you agreeing that the meaning is "kinda true"
What can I say, I kinda get it now, yeah.

[MykeSoBe]

I myself have thoughts of suicide occasionally. I'm a very irascible person, I get angry over small matters very easily. And a lot of the time my blood pressure accelerates to next week. And people have been noticing my irate behavior. I'm starting to think I'm bipolar, because one day I'll feel like I'm the king of the world and the next day I'll feel like all my emotion has been pulled out of me. The thing is, i haven't told anyone of these emotions of mine.

But on the original topic, I think suicide is a bit cowardly. Believe me, if killing yourself was such a difficult act to bring yourself to do, then it wouldn't be so widespread.

[dstnyisurs]

We are givin the freedom of choice, yet we cannot choose to die? If something is so terrible, why should we prolong it. My own twisted logic tells me that I'm saving the world a lot of trouble by ending it, that everything would be better when it's all over, and that I'm just another statistic living, so why not be a happy statistic dead.
Suicide is devilishly selfish, but however selfish it is, it seems like the only way out sometimes. In fact, the feeling is very real. It's a double edged sword.

[Sapphire]

Kyrra, people don't have the right to kill themselves because they aren't thinking clearly about things.

[Kaius]

It is a cowardly act.
The real courage comes from deciding to overcome the troubles in life.

Sorry, But i disagree with you. Since 2005, Ive been through alot of shit. And yes i have attempted suicide and yes i believe it is the wrong answer. I once overdosed so badly i was kept in an induced coma for days, Because of that i was sectioned and put on suicide watch. Yes after that act i saw some sense, But people have different reasons. Sometimes its a cry for help, other times its the end of someones patience. So dont deem it cowardly until you know the true facts. Some troubles cannot be overcome as easy as others.

[dstnyisurs]

Very true, Sapphire.
I apologize, that post doesn't make much sense to me now.
Lack of food. :3

[Reality]

Very true, Sapphire.
I apologize, that post doesn't make much sense to me now.
Lack of food. :3
What?

[Sapphire]

No no no. Kyrra, it does make sense when you take into consideration what depression does to us. It's just that the depression (as well as other things) clouds the matter and prevents you from thinking clearly.Sorry, But i disagree with you. Since 2005, Ive been through alot of shit. And yes i have attempted suicide and yes i believe it is the wrong answer. I once overdosed so badly i was kept in an induced coma for days, Because of that i was sectioned and put on suicide watch. Yes after that act i saw some sense, But people have different reasons. Sometimes its a cry for help, other times its the end of someones patience. So dont deem it cowardly until you know the true facts. Some troubles cannot be overcome as easy as others.
Lol. You clearly haven't read the whole thread properly if you think that I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Whisper]

Carole I'm sorry about what you've been through, but keep in mind you aren't the only one who has a history
The fact of the matter is suicide isn't a black and white area

I know you're going to get the last word in, you always do :roll:
Just keep in mind that you may consider it cowardly and I accept that's what you believe
but the fact is there are no universal answers to a subject like this
So you may consider it an act of cowardice
But keep in mind that is your "opinion"
You can fight with people all you want
But don't expect everyone else to agree

Different strokes for different folks

[Sapphire]

Cody, this is a debate and I am well within the rules that govern any debate to continue to argue my point in the face of opposing views. I am not obliged to change my stance on this and I don't intend to. Neither do I expect everyone to agree with me. In fact if they did it would be a very boring debate indeed!

[Kaius]

"Lol. You clearly haven't read the whole thread properly if you think that I don't know what I'm talking about"

I didnt say anywhere you dont know what you're talking about. i just meant that everyones case is different. Didnt mean any offense by it lol.

[ZzKingz]

Suicide is the "easy way out." It doesn't solve anything. if there isn't an afterlife, its over, but if there is, you will be stuck with it forever. l think that people should have the right to die if they really want to, but i also think that others have the right to talk someone out of it. After all, trying to convince them isn't necessarily going to convince them. They can still kill themselves if they find it necessary. It truly is a slap in the face to others who have tried to help, but sometimes its the only way out.