I can prove you that there is a GOD !

[HelloWorld123456]

Yes I can !


Well ... let assume the big bang theory ... right ? How the universe originated and stuff BOOM! ... OK ... I agree with it ... So you will say there is no god because the big bang chemical reasction happened ... Then ... I will tell you and from where did the nebula originated ? Someone greater than us must have created it ... And someone must have started the nebula's chemical reaction ... because ... It is believed that the nebula was stable for like billions of years ... now why has it unstabilised ? OR Who pressed the "Start" button ...

So there is A God ... The one who created us in a way or another ... and btw about Adam And Eve and the Bible ... Well the Bible is written in a metaphorical way ... and We weren't there to say ... No Jesus Didn't exist ... So


There Is A God :D ... And Jesus ... And The HolySpirit

[Cloud]

what created God then?? explain that

[HelloWorld123456]

God is the begining ... I believe that there is a begining of everything ... but What I believe is God didnt create himself he existed there from before time existed ... God is an unlimited source of good energy and Energy Cannot be created nor destroyed

[Commander Thor]

If you can believe that there is a beginning to everything, and god has so-called 'ever-existed'. Then, why do you find it so hard to believe that there is/was a beginning to the Universe, and all the matter & energy in the Universe has ever-existed?
Same concept right?

And what set it off?
Ever heard of the 'big-bang, big-crunch, big-bang' theory? (I know it's not the /actual/ term, but I cant think of it off the top of my head)
It's a theory that states that, the Universe has ever-existed in this bouncing sort of pattern. After the big-bang, the Universe collapses in on itself, down to a singularity of pure energy. Where, the pure energy de-stabilizes, the Universe explodes in a big-bang, afterwards, it collapses, and the process repeats.
Is that hard to believe?

And to add on, you quoted a scientific law up there, that energy cannot be created or destroyed. And god created the universe, right? Oh wait, energy can't be created! See the paradox?

[Rutherford The Brave]

Um, no wrong. I don't believe it because it wasn't until millions of years after the big bang did the idea of a monotheistic god arise. One thing no one can do is time travel.

[Underground_Network]

You're not proving anything.

You're just stating a hypothesis that has probably been brought up by evangelists in the past.

This doesn't prove anything to anyone lol.

You don't present any serious proof that there is a God. It's all just your opinion and various connections that don't necessarily have anything to do with each other and that don't really PROVE anything.

Heck, God may exist. God may not exist.

You haven't PROVEN either side though.

[Triceratops]

You are not proving anything, at all.

You are just stating a theory, which is unlikely going to convince others to agree with you. Although I do believe in God, but your argument is totally illogical.

[Ripplemagne]

There Is A God ... And Jesus ... And The HolySpirit

Proving God's existence doesn't prove Christianity's legitimacy.

Well the Bible is written in a metaphorical way

Proof?

and We weren't there to say ... No Jesus Didn't exist ... So

...What?

what created God then?? explain that

God, being omnipotent, exists outside the laws of chronology. As such, what our scope of understanding is does not apply to him. What you're doing is applying finite means to an infinite object. Being that atheism attempts to explain an origin without the use of an intelligent designer, the same rules don't apply for the same aspects of the debate.

If you can believe that there is a beginning to everything, and god has so-called 'ever-existed'. Then, why do you find it so hard to believe that there is/was a beginning to the Universe, and all the matter & energy in the Universe has ever-existed?
Same concept right?

Not quite. See, an atheistic model asserts origin without omnipotence or mysticism. As such, explanation can be found on chronology of the theistic explanation, but has yet to be determined for an atheistic one.

You are not proving anything, at all.

You are just stating a theory, which is unlikely going to convince others to agree with you. Although I do believe in God, but your argument is totally illogical.

Word.

[Underground_Network]

It's not even a theory.

It's a hypothesis.

It's all hypothetical, not theoretical. IMO it has no validity whatsoever. (His argument, NOT the concept of God/God's existence)

[Donkey]

Proof my jackass.

I can't even comprehend exactly what we're living, the beginning of it is more incomprehendable then the idea of God being an eternal factor is just stupid quite frankly.

[Sage]

Yes I can !


Well ... let assume the big bang theory ... right ? How the universe originated and stuff BOOM! ... OK ... I agree with it ... So you will say there is no god because the big bang chemical reasction happened ... Then ... I will tell you and from where did the nebula originated ? Someone greater than us must have created it ... And someone must have started the nebula's chemical reaction ... because ... It is believed that the nebula was stable for like billions of years ... now why has it unstabilised ? OR Who pressed the "Start" button ...

So there is A God ... The one who created us in a way or another ... and btw about Adam And Eve and the Bible ... Well the Bible is written in a metaphorical way ... and We weren't there to say ... No Jesus Didn't exist ... So


There Is A God :D ... And Jesus ... And The HolySpirit

Short-hand version: I have no understanding of scientific theories, therefore God had to have done it!

[Spin]

Aw man, I was hoping for pictures. Yeah I'm still not convinced.

[INFERNO]

Aha, I really love whenever I see something like this as it really makes the moment where I respond to it really fun.

So you will say there is no god because the big bang chemical reasction happened ...

Up to this point, you're assuming I'm rather narrow-minded, a whole lot stupider and rather pig-headed. But carry on.


Then ... I will tell you and from where did the nebula originated ? Someone greater than us must have created it

Stop right there. You haven't given a reason as to why it was not another process but rather an entity. You're making a very big leap with no groundwork for it. Before you say it was an entity, you must say why it would be and why it would not be something else. Your entire concept revolves around this and you haven't given any reasoning for it. So right now all you're left with is an idea with no explanation, no argument but simply a conclusion.


... And someone must have started the nebula's chemical reaction ... because ... It is believed that the nebula was stable for like billions of years ... now why has it unstabilised ? OR Who pressed the "Start" button ...

Once again, you're assuming it was an entity. You still haven't given a reason as to why it was not another scientific process and why it was an entity.


So there is A God ... The one who created us in a way or another

Still haven't shown any argument or reasoning for why it is. Might as well pull a random idea that it was the skunk under my neighbour's porch who made everything.


... and btw about Adam And Eve and the Bible ... Well the Bible is written in a metaphorical way

This is your second main problem. The bible is open to interpretation, it can be interpreted literally. So you now have to give your argument, your premise and an explanation for why it is written metaphorically.


... and We weren't there to say ... No Jesus Didn't exist ... So

Now you seem to be contradicting yourself. The Holy Trinity states that there is a god, holy spirit and jesus. You've just stated Jesus doesn't exist, so you seem to now be refuting your idea of there being a god, specifically the Christian god.


There Is A God :D ... And Jesus ... And The HolySpirit

Now you are contradicting yourself. Read above, you just said there was no Jesus and now you're saying there is Jesus. So which is it? Also, you've forgotten one main thing: an argument with a premise and reasoning. Right now, you've just tossed out a random idea, so I might as well just say it was my neighbour's skunk under their porch. I have the same amount of reasoning as you, none.

Thank you for the comic relief though :lol::yes::lol:

[Bougainvillea]

You are not proving anything, at all.

You are just stating a theory, which is unlikely going to convince others to agree with you. Although I do believe in God, but your argument is totally illogical.

I second that.

And here is a sterling example of why people should think before they post. :)

[Mzor203]

"There was God, and then suddenly, POOF out of nowhere the universe existed!"

At least there is SOME form of explanation to the big bang theory.

[AllThatIsLeft]

Well, that was horribly stated.
It bothers me when people don't understand the use of a comma, or ONE period.

To be honest, that did not prove anything at all.
I heard that hypothesis/theory before, and it is as close to being right as me saying "I created the universe!"

I want my last 5 minutes back.

[Ripplemagne]

"There was God, and then suddenly, POOF out of nowhere the universe existed!"

At least there is SOME form of explanation to the big bang theory.

Yes.

"There was nothing. And then poof! Suddenly, out of nowhere, the universe existed."

[Mzor203]

No, it was not that there was nothing. It depends on who you talk to, but many agree that the universe itself was in some state of existence forever. As in it's always existed. This in itself rules out God as an omnipotent being, as it would mean that he could not have created the universe.

In fact, without some plane of existence for God to exist on, God doesn't exist. And if God did not exist when there was no existence, he could not have created existence itself. Thus, he did not create the embodiment of existence.

So with this infinitely existing universe, there was at some point the singularity which the universe we know came out of. It could have come to this state in any number of ways, that is certainly up for speculation. If you really want some theories, I'll get them.

The big bang did not create the entire universe. The universe has been infinitely in one state or another. The big bang simply re-created in universe into the form we know today. Which means the OP's point is already null, given that he is stating that the big bang created the universe.

[Ripplemagne]

No, it was not that there was nothing. It depends on who you talk to, but many agree that the universe itself was in some state of existence forever. As in it's always existed. This in itself rules out God as an omnipotent being, as it would mean that he could not have created the universe.

Except there's absolutely nothing to affirm that, but speculation, which is in the same boat as theism.

In fact, without some plane of existence for God to exist on, God doesn't exist. And if God did not exist when there was no existence, he could not have created existence itself. Thus, he did not create the embodiment of existence.

Once again, finite means to an infinite object.

[Mzor203]

Once again, finite means to an infinite object.

I'm probably going to go, "OH! duh," but can you please explain what you mean by this? Because it's making no sense to me.

[Ripplemagne]

I'm probably going to go, "OH! duh," but can you please explain what you mean by this? Because it's making no sense to me.

Basically, attempting to explain an omnipotent being with human logic is silly. It's poor resident of a third world country trying to explain the workings of another country.

[Mzor203]

God is by no means unsubjected to logic. He cannot exist if nothing exists. Just as the poor person in your can, though he cannot tell you exactly what happens in that country, determine what is or isn't possible by the laws of nature for those in that other country.

[Ripplemagne]

XD Okay.

[Sage]

"There was nothing. And then poof! Suddenly, out of nowhere, the universe existed."

The Big Bang theory was proposed based on scientists' understanding of the Red Shift phenomenon in space. It's clear that, upon analysis, all galaxies and celestial bodies are moving away, as though the universe were expanding, therefore it's only logical to assume everything began as a very compact object (a singularity) and then, for reasons unknown, began expanding.

It's a common misconception that the Big Bang explains the origin of the universe, which it does not. The theory explains the Red Shift we observe in space and helps us measure the distance between our planet and others. This is much like the misconception that the theory of evolution explains the origin of life, when in reality, the theory of evolution explains the diversity of life.

Do you see how easy it is to dismiss a theory when you incorrectly summarize it like that? Were I snarkier, I could oversimplify any religious or scientific belief. However, that's not how I roll.

Have a swell day. =)

[Ripplemagne]

The Big Bang theory was proposed based on scientists' understanding of the Red Shift phenomenon in space. It's clear that, upon analysis, all galaxies and celestial bodies are moving away, as though the universe were expanding, therefore it's only logical to assume everything began as a very compact object (a singularity) and then, for reasons unknown, began expanding.

It's a common misconception that the Big Bang explains the origin of the universe, which it does not. The theory explains the Red Shift we observe in space and helps us measure the distance between our planet and others. This is much like the misconception that the theory of evolution explains the origin of life, when in reality, the theory of evolution explains the diversity of life.

Do you see how easy it is to dismiss a theory when you incorrectly summarize it like that? Were I snarkier, I could oversimplify any religious or scientific belief. However, that's not how I roll.

Have a swell day. =)

Except you're quoting me where I responded to a simplification of another view and I matched it with such. Notice how I didn't even use the words "Big Bang" in the quoted bit? So, your entire response to that was rather pointless.

[Sage]

So, your entire response to that was rather pointless.

I like hearing myself type away at the keyboard. =(

[Ripplemagne]

I like hearing myself type away at the keyboard. =(

Believe it or not, that's a good thing. I used to do that a lot as well; it helps reinforce and further ideas. :P

[Antares]

I should have saw this thread earlier.

I want to say that your post has very little evidence and is kinda baseless.

The good thing about science is that we prove it to be true and it also grows with time. We have SOOOO much to discover and it will take us decades to be able to dig back deeper and see what created the nebula you are talking about.

So my point is, we don't know who created the nebula or whatever yet! but in the future, we will know. And then it will further make it harder to prove the real existence of god.

[BuryYourFlame]

Short-hand version: I have no understanding of scientific theories, therefore God had to have done it!


uh...Tim? I thought we already discussed how it was pointless trying to use science to disprove God, infact, I'm pretty sure you felt quite strongly about that too...maybe that isn't what you were getting at with that post, or I could be wrong...but yeh...that's how I understood it to mean.

(I re-read it, sounded kinda bitchy, so just putting this in there, it wasn't intended in a bitchy tone, just questioning.)

[Atonement]

I'm sure I am going to get shit for this, but I don't care. I believe in God and the only scientific proof that comes to mind is the creation as in that the DNA in the retina in the human eye is the length from the earth to the moon. In one eye. That's a hell of a chance for that to happen by chance. I do not believe that it happened by chance but is intelligent design.

[Neverender]

Energy Cannot be created nor destroyed

*Looks at weak Nuclear Fission*

It can be created.

[Atonement]

Energy Cannot be created nor destroyed

Though I agree with your motive, your reasoning is not the best. This is a law of man, and when you're trying to prove that God exists, why is the theory of men relevant?

[Commander Thor]

*Looks at weak Nuclear Fission*

It can be created.

All energy is conserved.
Energy can be freely converted between Energy and Matter.

You take away a bit of matter, you get a bit more energy.

You can't just pop energy out of nowhere though, which is the impression I got of this post.

[drpepper21]

last night in bed, i got to thinking, why am i here? what am i doing here? why is anything here? whats the point? is there any point? then, i thought: what if we are here just because. if you believe in god, then you say "god made us" but why did he make us? my only solution was just because. that made me happy. in fact, mind blowingly happy. there doesn't need to be a purpose does there? in fact, nothing does! ask any question. for example: "why is that piano, a piano?" and you answer. then i ask why. and for every answer i ask "why' again. see how long you can play this game. and you can end the game at any time, with just because. i find it amazing, that we exist, that anything exists, at all. it made me think, there has to be a god, at least a greater force, be cause we exist. the world is amazing, everything is amazing, just for the fact, that its there. we are here, and that is an amazing gift, greater than anything other. its a gift, that anything is here. that we can see, and touch and feel. it blows me away, and makes me so happy, i just felt absolutely content. you know why? just because.

call me crazy, but at least i exist.

[Sage]

uh...Tim? I thought we already discussed how it was pointless trying to use science to disprove God, infact, I'm pretty sure you felt quite strongly about that too...maybe that isn't what you were getting at with that post, or I could be wrong...but yeh...that's how I understood it to mean.

No one's using science to disprove God, the original poster is attempting to scientifically disprove scientific theories. This starts as a debate about science and the original poster's poor understanding of theories. I'm pointing out that one shouldn't base their beliefs on being ignorant to other ideas they don't understand.

The original poster uses a strawman argument by incorrectly summarising the Big Bang and going on to say that basically, since that can't be true, that the only reasonable explanation for things is God.

At least, that's what I got. Fuck it. I'm tired.

[BuryYourFlame]

Right, gotcha, making sense now.

[punkjake]

I watched angels and demons and now i realise there is a good with both religions/philosophy but i already knew that :P but yeah i agree w/ u

[Death]

Yes I can !


Well ... let assume the big bang theory ... right ? How the universe originated and stuff BOOM! ... OK ... I agree with it ... So you will say there is no god because the big bang chemical reasction happened ... Then ... I will tell you and from where did the nebula originated ? Someone greater than us must have created it ... And someone must have started the nebula's chemical reaction ... because ... It is believed that the nebula was stable for like billions of years ... now why has it unstabilised ? OR Who pressed the "Start" button ...

So there is A God ... The one who created us in a way or another ... and btw about Adam And Eve and the Bible ... Well the Bible is written in a metaphorical way ... and We weren't there to say ... No Jesus Didn't exist ... So


There Is A God :D ... And Jesus ... And The HolySpirit

First you say that Jesus is non-existant then you contradict yourself by saying that he is existant. Can you not keep your own story straight? It's just it helps prove what you say is wrong. You also say that someone greater must have created everything because you do not understamd how it can work otherwise. Not only is this concept no more logical than the concept of evolution, the big bang, etc, but also, it shows that you have little understanding of how the world works and thus, you say that everything happens for 1 reason (namely, God) instead of trying to explain it in more difficult but logical ways.

You say that you can prove that God exists and yet you have scarsely shown any evidence to prove either way. As for the metaphorical method with which the bible was written, not only does that help refute religion but you also have not explained how that is so.

last night in bed, i got to thinking, why am i here? what am i doing here? why is anything here? whats the point? is there any point? then, i thought: what if we are here just because. if you believe in god, then you say "god made us" but why did he make us? my only solution was just because. that made me happy. in fact, mind blowingly happy. there doesn't need to be a purpose does there? in fact, nothing does! ask any question. for example: "why is that piano, a piano?" and you answer. then i ask why. and for every answer i ask "why' again. see how long you can play this game. and you can end the game at any time, with just because. i find it amazing, that we exist, that anything exists, at all. it made me think, there has to be a god, at least a greater force, be cause we exist. the world is amazing, everything is amazing, just for the fact, that its there. we are here, and that is an amazing gift, greater than anything other. its a gift, that anything is here. that we can see, and touch and feel. it blows me away, and makes me so happy, i just felt absolutely content. you know why? just because.

call me crazy, but at least i exist.

Oh no, not the old "The universe is amazing and so God made it!" excuse again! The fact that we exist is by no means evidence for God's existance at all. You have not remotely, truly dispelled the theroies and evidence that shows how we exist through the big bang, evolution and other proved (even if not for certain) ways. In fact, if you are saying that for the world to be so amazing, someone must have created it, then that makes it seem even more illogical since it must have been far to difficult for anyone to do that. Superior is he? Can do anything? Well how come we can't? How come there's only one of hs kind? Who created him? True, we do not know much about what was before the big bang but firstly, we accept that there's stuff yet to be explained (religion 'knows it all', which of course is bullshit) and you can't say that God was always there but the matter in the universe cant of been since it's the same principal. I won't call you crazy though since I'm better than that.

Oh and also, what do you think of murderers, rapers, thieves, stinging wasps, predators (like wolves in certain areas), horrible accidents involving cars, knives, and pretty much everything else that's disgusting or dangerous in the universe? Amazing is it? How could God create or allow this to happen? Would he not have wanted a perfect universe and get everyone to behave as such? Are more logical reason would be that this is how natural selection works and that no person created this place and thus, you can't expect it to be amazing at all. You have not used any proof to back up your theory for God except to give false claims as to the universe being amazing and to say tat you exist which also does not explain much since you could exist for several reasons.

Short-hand version: I have no understanding of scientific theories, therefore God had to have done it!

I agree with this fully. This is one of the things that contributes to the belief in God quite nicely - lack of understanding.

[Sapphire]

Ok Psychic_Touch, your first post was badly written but I think I understand properly.

The thought that God started the Big Bang is one I have heard a number of times. This train of thought is simply suggestive as it can't be proved or disproved as of yet.

The only real problem I have with your posts is that you are declaring to have proved God's existence from something which isn't conclusive.

[HelloWorld123456]

Well a lot of people who dont believe in God have posted here ... And some of them sa they couldnt understand the post or such ...

I guess the answer to all of your questions like in one simple answer ... I guess Faith plays the most inportant role in here

And science cannot explain everything ... No it cant ... Science is just another form of religion that we believe in because it gives us proof that we cannot deny ...

And I guess if God wanted us to give us proof he would but I guess he is testing our belief in him ...

(About the energy thing ... No energy cannot be created ... Nuclear fission is just that you are extracting that Stored energy in a way ... On this planet there is like "X" number of energy and will always remain the same ... if we use it ... energy will only change form ... Energy Cannot Be Created Nor Destroyed Engergy always was and it will always be =) ) ...


So give me shit about this an about the "Lack" of proof (I know there is lack of proff but i guess thats what faith is about) ... but I do Believe that there is A God ...

[Sapphire]

We are giving you grief over the lack of proof because you claimed that you "can prove you that there is a GOD !"

And of course faith plays an important role in anything connected with God :rolleyes:

[Bougainvillea]

Oh snaps! THANK you, Carole.

[Stevo 69]

Proof! = we can't fly, we tried when we were kids but areoplanes, bigger and heavier than us can, how? God lifts them up!

Sorry saw it on tv and had to do it

There is no way to prove the existence of God, yes people have written and talked about him OR HER (we don't know God is male), but that was thousands of years ago.

I guess the only was to know is when God appears form heaven and slaps you in the face, seriously you would know then

[Rutherford The Brave]

Well a lot of people who dont believe in God have posted here ... And some of them sa they couldnt understand the post or such ...

I guess the answer to all of your questions like in one simple answer ... I guess Faith plays the most inportant role in here

And science cannot explain everything ... No it cant ... Science is just another form of religion that we believe in because it gives us proof that we cannot deny ...

And I guess if God wanted us to give us proof he would but I guess he is testing our belief in him ...

(About the energy thing ... No energy cannot be created ... Nuclear fission is just that you are extracting that Stored energy in a way ... On this planet there is like "X" number of energy and will always remain the same ... if we use it ... energy will only change form ... Energy Cannot Be Created Nor Destroyed Engergy always was and it will always be =) ) ...


So give me shit about this an about the "Lack" of proof (I know there is lack of proff but i guess thats what faith is about) ... but I do Believe that there is A God ...

Excuse me science is not a religion. Its everything and everything. Energy can be created its matter that cannot be created or destroyed. Energy is created in reactions all the time, ever heard of Enthalpy?

[Sapphire]

Excuse me science is not a religion. Its everything and everything. Energy can be created its matter that cannot be created or destroyed. Energy is created in reactions all the time, ever heard of Enthalpy?Enthalpy is a way of measuring the temperature of liquid so why you are mentioning it is beyond me.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It is only ever transferred.
Read this. (http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1757)

Endo- and exothermic reactions happen all the time. One gives energy off into the environment and the other uses energy from the environment. But it is clear that the reaction doesn't create or destroy this energy, rather they are responsible for the transfer of energy.
Read this too. (http://scienceaid.co.uk/chemistry/basics/exoendothermic.html)

Now maybe we can drop this energy talk and get back on topic.

[Ripplemagne]

Well, the possibility of a reasonable debate has gone out the window at this point.

First you say that Jesus is non-existant then you contradict yourself by saying that he is existant.

I believe what he was trying to say is:

No one was there to say "Jesus does not exist."

I still can't follow what he's trying to deduce, but I'm pretty sure that that's what he meant.

[Sapphire]

The OP said We weren't there to say "No Jesus Didn't exist" (I took out the ellipsis and inserted speech marks to make it an easier read otherwise it is exactly as he typed it)
How this fits in with the rest of the post isn't exactly clear to me though either.
Maybe Psychic_Touch can explain it again just a bit clearer to solve some of the confusion.

[Jman35]

I see where you're coming from on this but your arguement is so flawed. Look up online how atheists think that the big bang happened, don't just assume that we think there isn't a god just because.

You had a good idea, but absolutely no proof or evidence to back up your statement and it was poorly presented.

[INFERNO]

I guess the answer to all of your questions like in one simple answer ... I guess Faith plays the most inportant role in here

That it may but the issue is you intended to give some proof for us that god does exist. You cant simply say "I have faith so that's my proof for all of you". Faith is only proof for yourself not for us.


And science cannot explain everything ... No it cant ... Science is just another form of religion that we believe in because it gives us proof that we cannot deny ...

You obviously don't know what science is nor what religion is. The "proof" that science gives is not 0% or 100% true or false, it can be falsifiable. Read up on both of them a bit.


And I guess if God wanted us to give us proof he would but I guess he is testing our belief in him ...

This I find to be such a lame excuse each time I hear it. If god were all-powerful and such, he could show us but he'd rather remain secretive and have people choose to worship him. It isn't a good argument to try to use when attempting to prove god does exist.


(About the energy thing ... No energy cannot be created ... Nuclear fission is just that you are extracting that Stored energy in a way ... On this planet there is like "X" number of energy and will always remain the same ... if we use it ... energy will only change form ... Energy Cannot Be Created Nor Destroyed Engergy always was and it will always be =) ) ...

What about god? He created energy.


So give me shit about this an about the "Lack" of proof (I know there is lack of proff but i guess thats what faith is about) ... but I do Believe that there is A God ...

You're right, that is what faith is about, however, that is not the issue. The issue is about you telling us you can prove god exists. So you'd need some proof to show us other than saying "if you have faith then he exists".

[Death]

I guess the answer to all of your questions like in one simple answer ... I guess Faith plays the most inportant role in here

So that's all it is then, faith? Well, that only helps other disbelieve in it.

And science cannot explain everything ... No it cant ... Science is just another form of religion that we believe in because it gives us proof that we cannot deny ...

I know full well that science doesn't explain everything since it admits that there are things that are not fully understood. The only reason that religion does 'know it all' is simply because it takes all the ideas out of thin air and thus will say something is true without looking for any real evidence and thus, 'it can explain everything'. Untrue.

And I guess if God wanted us to give us proof he would but I guess he is testing our belief in him ...

And how do you know that? If God is testing your faith in him and thus is not showing you evidence for his existance, then firstly, this contradicts what you said about proving his existance and secondly, you have no reason to know that he exists at all so I don't know why you are making wild assumptions out of the blue.



(About the energy thing ... No energy cannot be created ... Nuclear fission is just that you are extracting that Stored energy in a way ... On this planet there is like "X" number of energy and will always remain the same ... if we use it ... energy will only change form ... Energy Cannot Be Created Nor Destroyed Engergy always was and it will always be =) ) ...

This stuff about energy not being created or destroyed is correct for physics but according to the Christian story, energy was created simply because God said so which contradicts this.

So give me shit about this an about the "Lack" of proof (I know there is lack of proff but i guess thats what faith is about) ... but I do Believe that there is A God ...

You are basically saying that you have no evidence for your beliefs and that it's all simply blind faith. That simply makes the probability of you being correct minimal.

[L]

Yes I can !

no you cant! :D

[Mzor203]

Guess what. No one can prove that a lamp post didn't create God.

Because maybe there is a lamp post out there that defies all laws of physics. You can't prove that it's not there. Because it's big and magical just like God is!

This debate is pointless. Every debate like this is pointless if the Christians just start coming back with the whole 'God is omnipotent and defies all laws of everything, therefore you cannot disprove him'.

[Ripplemagne]

This debate is pointless. Every debate like this is pointless if the Christians just start coming back with the whole 'God is omnipotent and defies all laws of everything, therefore you cannot disprove him'.

And it continues with atheists following up with:

Guess what. No one can prove that a lamp post didn't create God.

Because maybe there is a lamp post out there that defies all laws of physics. You can't prove that it's not there. Because it's big and magical just like God is!

[HelloWorld123456]

OK ill put it in an other way ... in one simple sentence ...

If God Doesnt exist ... Satanism wouldnt exist ... So I got you owned ...

If people dont believe that there is a God why do they bother to believe there is Satan ? And yes there is proof that people practice satanism to Offend God so if God didnt exist then neither Satan would ...

Bdw "Satan believes in God! "ever Heard that ?

So I believe that There is a God since people Believe in Satan

[Sapphire]

OK ill put it in an other way ... in one simple sentence ...

If God Doesnt exist ... Satanism wouldnt exist ... So I got you owned ...

If people dont believe that there is a God why do they bother to believe there is Satan ? And yes there is proof that people practice satanism to Offend God so if God didnt exist then neither Satan would ...

Bdw "Satan believes in God! "ever Heard that ?

So I believe that There is a God since people Believe in Satan
You can't prove that God exists because some people are satanists. That's akin to me saying that God doesn't exist because atheists exist.

[Ripplemagne]

Me thinks he's trolling.

[Rutherford The Brave]

OK ill put it in an other way ... in one simple sentence ...

If God Doesnt exist ... Satanism wouldnt exist ... So I got you owned ...

If people dont believe that there is a God why do they bother to believe there is Satan ? And yes there is proof that people practice satanism to Offend God so if God didnt exist then neither Satan would ...

Bdw "Satan believes in God! "ever Heard that ?

So I believe that There is a God since people Believe in Satan

I don't believe satan exists. There just poked a huge hole in your logic neither of them exist.

[INFERNO]

OK ill put it in an other way ... in one simple sentence ...

If God Doesnt exist ... Satanism wouldnt exist ... So I got you owned ...

If people dont believe that there is a God why do they bother to believe there is Satan ? And yes there is proof that people practice satanism to Offend God so if God didnt exist then neither Satan would ...

Bdw "Satan believes in God! "ever Heard that ?

So I believe that There is a God since people Believe in Satan

Hold on, so you're telling me that I was/still do practice some satanism because I want to piss off your god? That's not how it works for many satanists. Also, certain types of Satanism (i.e. LaVeyan) have nothing to do with your god, hell, for that type you don't even worship Satan as it's an atheistic practice. So those satanists don't necessarily believe in Satan as an entity, so Satanism can exist but it is also possible at the same time that your god doesn't.

Your logic doesn't really work for a simple reason: you're still using your ideas of your god and you're using something that it is in your religious book to "prove" your god exists. You might as well just say since a person named Abraham exists, then God exists also since he's in the bible. That's all your argument is and it is an extremely poor one. So, the moral of the story is don't use the bible or parts of it to prove your god exists.

[sebbie]

OK ill put it in an other way ... in one simple sentence ...

If God Doesnt exist ... Satanism wouldnt exist ... So I got you owned ...

If people dont believe that there is a God why do they bother to believe there is Satan ? And yes there is proof that people practice satanism to Offend God so if God didnt exist then neither Satan would ...

Bdw "Satan believes in God! "ever Heard that ?

So I believe that There is a God since people Believe in Satan

This post caught my attention. As it is possibly the worst argument I have ever seen for trying to prove the existence of a God.

From your post the first thing I will assume is that you are talking about Theistic Satanism, essentially this is where Satanists will worship Satan as they perceive it to be a God, not to offend another God.

They practice Satanism as they believe that it is what is best for them and what they believe. They do not practice to offend Christians, that is just a by product of their ways.

Also just because someone believes something that can relate to your views does not make it true.

[2D]

Bahh, I really shouldn't do this, I really shouldn't. I hate religious debates. Mainly because they get nowhere. But here goes. Look around you. The trees, the ground, the atmosphere, the animals, us. How can you say this all poofed into place and then we evolved out of some primordial sludge? Heck just even look at the simple cell. If the cell didn't have the cell membrane it would die. If it had no cytoskeleton it would die. If it had no mitochondria it would die. No Golgi Complex? Dead. See where I'm going? without one thing it all died. So we're to suppose that it all evolved PERFECTLY at the EXACT SAME TIME and then reproduced? The whole theory of evolution depends on reproducing and slowly getting more and more advanced over billions and billions of years but if what's trying to progress dies before it can reproduce it can't evolve. That's a pretty big problem. And without a cell how can we be alive or anything? The answer? It was created. Now I guess you could call me a Christian because I go to a Christian school but I'm not really. I just know we didn't get here by accident or slowly over billions of years.

[ManyPearTree]

I really don't like this thread because I see no good that will come from it. We will only see negative comment after another just pointlessly trying to scold others due to their religion... :(

[2D]

^^^^^agree^^^^^ :)

otherwise everyone is gonna go like this eventually over complete madness at each other :blowup:

[INFERNO]

I could guess you're a Christian and you're someone who doesn't understand much about microbiology. Cells existed separate from mitochondria for some time so they can survive without them. There is some evidence to suggest this due to the different mitochondrial DNA, the extra cell membranes around the mitochondria that are typical when one cell engulfs another, etc... . The Golgi complex is debatable as the cell could be able to compensate for certain functions of it. What functions do you think the cell couldn't compensate for though? So your argument of "without one thing then we'd be dead" is nonsense because cells were once without a whole lot of things yet we still lived.

Also, we are not perfect, humans, animals, trees, plants, fungi, bacteria, etc... are far from perfect. We may be able to fit our environments nicely but even within our ideal environmental conditions, we still are a far cry from perfect.

But there is a problem with your argument. You give the idea that if the cell wasn't around then we'd be in the shitter. That's fine but you have the same problem, which by the way destroys your argument, that the OP has: your reason for why it is an entity such as a god, and then, why it is that specific god. You made the leap without covering that ground and unfortunately for you, that ground is what you're trying to "prove". So now we're left with you giving an idea with absolutely no evidence supporting it one bit.

From above, I mentioned you lacked knowledge on biology for another reason. Evolution is NOT about getting more and more complex. The increase in complexity may be an outcome but it is not something that evolution strives for.

And why do you think we didn't come here by evolution or as you call it, by an accident? Is it because you're biased towards a certain belief and paradigm and so you're going to adhere to that idea and be narrow-minded by not looking past it?

[Death]

Bahh, I really shouldn't do this, I really shouldn't. I hate religious debates. Mainly because they get nowhere. But here goes. Look around you. The trees, the ground, the atmosphere, the animals, us. How can you say this all poofed into place and then we evolved out of some primordial sludge? Heck just even look at the simple cell. If the cell didn't have the cell membrane it would die. If it had no cytoskeleton it would die. If it had no mitochondria it would die. No Golgi Complex? Dead. See where I'm going? without one thing it all died. So we're to suppose that it all evolved PERFECTLY at the EXACT SAME TIME and then reproduced? The whole theory of evolution depends on reproducing and slowly getting more and more advanced over billions and billions of years but if what's trying to progress dies before it can reproduce it can't evolve. That's a pretty big problem. And without a cell how can we be alive or anything? The answer? It was created. Now I guess you could call me a Christian because I go to a Christian school but I'm not really. I just know we didn't get here by accident or slowly over billions of years.

What really pisses me off is when people sy evolution is simple stuff happening by accident. It is obvious that you do not fully understand evolution and so I want to say something: the cells would not have been like that in the past. Part of evolution is the cells actually changing over a long period of time (as each reproductoin takes place) to adapt and suit a new environment so your point will be invalid for that time since the cells would not have worked that way. Evolution is no accident; it is the intelligent genes making sure that its life can survive in a changing world.

You mention a problem with evolution. Well, what about God? Who created the creator? How could he just be there? Was that some accident? See the problem here?

[mrmcdonaldduck]

people, god and science are the same thing. the matter at the start (science) was obviously hit by some energy (god).

that started the big bang.

then god and science work together to create life and all of the galaxys.

[Sapphire]

people, god and science are the same thing. the matter at the start (science) was obviously hit by some energy (god).

that started the big bang.

then god and science work together to create life and all of the galaxys.
First off, the matter wasn't "hit" by energy. The matter had the energy it needed to begin with.

Secondly, what is your assertion that God and science work together based on?

[Underground_Network]

I think a question needs to be raised on what people perceive God to be.

I don't perceive God to be a living being. And though I consider myself agnostic, I still believe there may be a "God" of sorts. I don't even think "God" needs to be capitalized, because there is no almighty being living above us in the "heavens." But there is potentially a scientific "God," a source of origin for all organic (and technically speaking, inorganic) life (the initial energy necessitated in the Big Bang, that, technically speaking, HAD to come from SOMEWHERE). <- Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but where did the initial energy we now possess come from? How can we believe that energy has just been around for forever. What is FOREVER?

[YourFriend]

Dude?! Do you know what a nebula is?! It's a supernova remnant or a star-creation place, has absolutely nothing to do with god. And there are more than one, there are billions of nebulas, don't speak if you don't understand. You cannot prove a god exists the same way i cant prove he doesn't, you can believe he does, and i can believe he doesn't, leave it at that and don't start pointless debates.

[Ripplemagne]

This is hilarious.

[2D]

^^^^^agreed^^^^^

I'm just a 16 year old kid. Of course I'm not an expert on microbiology. :P

INFERNO @ "...cells were once without a whole lot of things yet we still lived."

Really? Do show me some evidence. :P

Anyway I'm just saying that I don't think there's a way in hell that all this just happened my accident. Something made it. That's obvious enough. How or why or when or what did it is beyond me. :)

Now y'all are free to tear all this to shreds and point out how I'm an idiot but I already knew that. :P

[Death]

people, god and science are the same thing. the matter at the start (science) was obviously hit by some energy (god).

that started the big bang.

then god and science work together to create life and all of the galaxys.

I've heard some pretty weird things in my time but this just has to take the biscuit. Firstly, people, God and science are completely different. In which way are they the same? How are you backing up your theory of matter being hit by some supernatural energy? You also say that God and science work together. You almost sound as if you are saying that science is like a person or tool that God uses to make the universe and yet you have no explained where you got this from or where this works or why the hell I should believe in such far-fetched beliefs that seem to have been pulled out of thin air. In fact, how is the matter at the start science? You really don't seem to understand what you're talking about and consequently, it can be difficult to understand the point that you are trying to ge across which you really don't want in a debate.

This is hilarious.

In what way is this hilarious? In fact, to which individual are you referring?

[2D]

In what way is this hilarious? In fact, to which individual are you referring?

I think he's calling everyone hilarious for arguing for no point cuz this
isn't gonna change anyones mind.

[Ripplemagne]

In what way is this hilarious? In fact, to which individual are you referring?

Almost the entire thing. Do carry on.

[2D]

Almost the entire thing. Do carry on.

Hahaha This IS entertaining actually, :P

[Sapphire]

INFERNO @ "...cells were once without a whole lot of things yet we still lived."

Really? Do show me some evidence.The absence of mitochondria does not equate to the absence of all living organisms.
Mitochondria are only necessary for humans and other complex animals to survive. It has (as Inferno already stated) it's own DNA and is essentially similar to a positive parasite.
Other organisms and cells are able to exist without mitochondria because they can generate enough energy on their own.
Even cell walls are not necessary for all life to exist - some bacteria are able to exist perfectly fine without it.

[Death]

Well that's funny since I haven't laughed once while reading this thread.

[2D]

Well that's funny since I haven't laughed once while reading this thread.

Really? That's strange. :-/

[2D]

The absence of mitochondria does not equate to the absence of all living organisms.
Mitochondria are only necessary for humans and other complex animals to survive. It has (as Inferno already stated) it's own DNA and is essentially similar to a positive parasite.
Other organisms and cells are able to exist without mitochondria because they can generate enough energy on their own.
Even cell walls are not necessary for all life to exist - some bacteria are able to exist perfectly fine without it.

Okay, so maybe I didn't pay attention during Biology as much as I should. But if mitochondria aren't necessary for cells but are necessary for humans then how are we here? Evolution? Or are we gonna look at everything logically and see how everything is so incredible complex and that it had to be created.

[Sapphire]

Okay, so maybe I didn't pay attention during Biology as much as I should. But if mitochondria aren't necessary for cells but are necessary for humans then how are we here? Evolution? Or are we gonna look at everything logically and see how everything is so incredible complex and that it had to be created.
It is down to evolution.
A primitive cell type called eukaryotes engulfed and digested smaller cells (probably for food) and they allowed these mitochondria to reside inside of them. The eukaryote supplied the mitochondria with substances they require and the mitochondria produced the cell with energy. This laid the groundwork for the evolution of more complex organisms.

[2D]

It is down to evolution.
A primitive cell type called eukaryotes engulfed and digested smaller cells (probably for food) and they allowed these mitochondria to reside inside of them. The eukaryote supplied the mitochondria with substances they require and the mitochondria produced the cell with energy. This laid the groundwork for the evolution of more complex organisms.

Bahhh! You and your big words. Well I give up. I don't even feel like googling eukaryotes. Hahaha Well peace everyone. I give up on this thread. :)

[sebbie]

This is hilarious.

Indeed and it will only get better as the Science vs Faith argument springs up and people start trying to prove each other wrong with crappy youtube videos, non reputable websites and poorly explained theories.
:yeah:

[Death]

Indeed and it will only get better as the Science vs Faith argument springs up and people start trying to prove each other wrong with crappy youtube videos, non reputable websites and poorly explained theories.
:yeah:

What you are basically saying is a belief in itself just like what all the people on religion threads post.

[Bobby]

Please remember to keep this on topic, and to not make it personal.

[sebbie]

What you are basically saying is a belief in itself just like what all the people on religion threads post.

.....:yawn:

I would say what I said is more a prediction than a belief, the reason I came to such a conclusion was from past experience with the other threads concerning religion.

Now back on topic, you cannot prove or disprove the existence of a God.

[Ripplemagne]

How long do you think until someone posts something from infidels.org? Hahaha. Anyway, please carry on. I'm not making an argument; I'm just observing.

[sebbie]

How long do you think until someone posts something from infidels.org? Hahaha. Anyway, please carry on. I'm not making an argument; I'm just observing.

OMFG WE SHOULD ALL SHUN CHRISTIANITY COZ I LYKE FOUND DIS SITE AND ITS TOTTALY REPUTABLE QUICK ALL READ IT AND BECOME SATANISTS!!!!!!11111!!!eleven!!!1111onehundredandeleven!!!!!12

http://www.exposingchristianity.com/

[As a side note this post is sarcastic, made for comic value and should not be taken literally.]

[Bluearmy]

Yes I can !


Well ... let assume the big bang theory ... right ? How the universe originated and stuff BOOM! ... OK ... I agree with it ... So you will say there is no god because the big bang chemical reasction happened ... Then ... I will tell you and from where did the nebula originated ? Someone greater than us must have created it ... And someone must have started the nebula's chemical reaction ... because ... It is believed that the nebula was stable for like billions of years ... now why has it unstabilised ? OR Who pressed the "Start" button ...

So there is A God ... The one who created us in a way or another ... and btw about Adam And Eve and the Bible ... Well the Bible is written in a metaphorical way ... and We weren't there to say ... No Jesus Didn't exist ... So


There Is A God :D ... And Jesus ... And The HolySpirit

People, please don't hack this down just because it is not the most wordy, thought out post you ever read...
This theory is plausible, just like so many others that counter it.

Don't let these people put you down though. Every idea of how the universe came to be has massive holes in it. Some more then others, but in the end, every ideology requires blind faith to some extent. IMO.

[INFERNO]

OMFG WE SHOULD ALL SHUN CHRISTIANITY COZ I LYKE FOUND DIS SITE AND ITS TOTTALY REPUTABLE QUICK ALL READ IT AND BECOME SATANISTS!!!!!!11111!!!eleven!!!1111onehundredandeleven!!!!!12

http://www.exposingchristianity.com/

[As a side note this post is sarcastic, made for comic value and should not be taken literally.]

:lol: +1 for comedy.

How long do you think until someone posts something from infidels.org? Hahaha. Anyway, please carry on. I'm not making an argument; I'm just observing.

:lol: +1 for comedy also.

People, please don't hack this down just because it is not the most wordy, thought out post you ever read...
This theory is plausible, just like so many others that counter it.

Don't let these people put you down though. Every idea of how the universe came to be has massive holes in it. Some more then others, but in the end, every ideology requires blind faith to some extent. IMO.

When you say the word "theory", I hope that you aren't referring to a scientific theory but rather the common-day idea of what a theory is that does not resemble science.

I agree that every idea has holes in it. I also agree that every idea has some amount of faith but every idea does not necessarily have blind faith in it. You can argue that it's just semantics if you choose but I view faith and blind faith being more than just semantics. Although perhaps you did mean just faith and not blind faith so I won't harp on about it any longer until you respond.

[Bluearmy]

When you say the word "theory", I hope that you aren't referring to a scientific theory but rather the common-day idea of what a theory is that does not resemble science.
When I said theory, I meant ideas trying to become facts. Specifically the 'theories' of how we all came to be. Most people have already established that some are facts already, and the evidence provided is enough to set it in stone for them. Which I can respect.

I agree that every idea has holes in it. I also agree that every idea has some amount of faith but every idea does not necessarily have blind faith in it. You can argue that it's just semantics if you choose but I view faith and blind faith being more than just semantics. Although perhaps you did mean just faith and not blind faith so I won't harp on about it any longer until you respond.

Sorry, I was using the words interchangeably. Though they both contain the word faith, I do admit the two are quite on opposite sides of the scale...

[INFERNO]

When I said theory, I meant ideas trying to become facts. Specifically the 'theories' of how we all came to be. Most people have already established that some are facts already, and the evidence provided is enough to set it in stone for them. Which I can respect.

I'm assuming you're getting at people's own beliefs as opposed to actual scientific theories. I always question whenever someone brings up the word "theory" as to whether or not they're referring to their own set of beliefs and principles or scientific theories.


Sorry, I was using the words interchangeably. Though they both contain the word faith, I do admit the two are quite on opposite sides of the scale...

No problem, thanks for the clarification.

[Sapphire]

People, please don't hack this down just because it is not the most wordy, thought out post you ever read...
This theory is plausible, just like so many others that counter it.

Don't let these people put you down though. Every idea of how the universe came to be has massive holes in it. Some more then others, but in the end, every ideology requires blind faith to some extent. IMO.
I have no problem with the theory he's put across. I have a problem with him claiming to have proof that God exists when God is an unfalsifiable concept - that is it cannot be proved or disproved.

[HelloWorld123456]

God I think the end of the world is going to start from my Thread ... I guess everybody should take a cold shower to calm down ... And no one offend each other please ...


I found some of the post very interesting but others quite shitty ...

Well keep on posting ... until I come up with another idea or anything ...

[Rutherford The Brave]

The only ones that are "shitty" Seem to be your own. I think its quite funny honestly trying to prove a mythical being.

[Sapphire]

The only ones that are "shitty" Seem to be your own.Agreed.

[INFERNO]

God I think the end of the world is going to start from my Thread ... I guess everybody should take a cold shower to calm down ... And no one offend each other please ...


I found some of the post very interesting but others quite shitty ...

Well keep on posting ... until I come up with another idea or anything ...

Do you mind explaining the ones you found interesting and shitty?

The only ones that are "shitty" Seem to be your own. I think its quite funny honestly trying to prove a mythical being. :lol: very true

[Bluearmy]

The only ones that are "shitty" Seem to be your own. I think its quite funny honestly trying to prove a mythical being.

I take offense to that! How come it's okay for someone to be so blunt and rude on a topic of religion, but if.. say, I step on someone's toes about homosexuality, you all take turns beating me with a shovel?!

[The Batman]

This is a final warning for this thread. EVERYONE stay on topic and don't make it personal like bobby asked 2 days ago. Another thing is stay respectful and if you have a problem with something someone has said report it instead of making it a big deal.

[INFERNO]

I take offense to that! How come it's okay for someone to be so blunt and rude on a topic of religion, but if.. say, I step on someone's toes about homosexuality, you all take turns beating me with a shovel?!

Well the OP called some posts shitty so some other uses called his shitty. So, you're being rather hypocritical because you get angry at Native Rose but not at Psychic_Touch (the one who initially called them shitty).

[YourFriend]

Agreed.

Same... You can't actually prove a god exists until you meet him...

[Bluearmy]

Well the OP called some posts shitty so some other uses called his shitty. So, you're being rather hypocritical because you get angry at Native Rose but not at Psychic_Touch (the one who initially called them shitty).

http://www.eagleflight.org/characters/discouraged.gif <--Discouraged man is discouraged.

Anyway, back on topic. This theory, how long did it take for the earth to be formed then?

And, does this also have something to do with God interacting with us through science, or does science just explain how God does things?

[INFERNO]

Anyway, back on topic. This theory, how long did it take for the earth to be formed then?

Didn't the bible say that god managed to make the world in 7 or so days?


And, does this also have something to do with God interacting with us through science, or does science just explain how God does things?

Science explains things in general. Adding in god to it is due to a person's beliefs, so I view science as explaining things in general, whereas someone else may toss god or vishnu into there.

But if it interests you, then check out theistic evolution. It's essentially slapping the theory of evolution with god. You can also get theistic sciences, although I would think that the general scientific community may not be a fan of it.

[Whisper]

6 days on the 7th he rested apparently...allot of work i suppose

the sabbath, day of worship w/e used to be on a saturday but it was switched to sunday to align more with pagans
so now tens of millions of people pray to him on sunday......his day off
what assholes

allot of the christian religion and rituals are derived from paganism, they adopted it, makes it easier to convert.
Christmas is a prime example

[MykeSoBe]

Towards the original poster of this question, this is a losing battle and will cost you a few reputation points as it did me. I'm a proud Roman Catholic, I believe there is a divine God, and that from Him our universe was created. But just don't bother with it; we Christians are outnumbered here by atheists and agnostics. They will always win. So I'll just remain neutral.

Of course, though, I'm not medieval; I agree that science is just as important as religion, at least to me.

If someone got offended by this, please do not take away from my reputation. I was just trying to make a point to the original poster of this question.

[The Batman]

I'm going to say this and only this in this debate and it's only about the 7 days it took to make the earth(well 6 like cody said). To us days are defined by a 24 hour clock based on the sun, but to god a day can be defined by months, decades, centuries, or even millions of years so yea that's it.

[Truth]

What? Too much puncuation and not much grammar.. i could not understand most of what you said, and this is just your opinion with absolutely no proof. Sure, a god could be real, but why would he get humans to write a book about his kid that he made human. It doesn't make much sense to me.

[Sage]

I'm going to say this and only this in this debate and it's only about the 7 days it took to make the earth(well 6 like cody said). To us days are defined by a 24 hour clock based on the sun, but to god a day can be defined by months, decades, centuries, or even millions of years so yea that's it.

Regardless of the definition of 'day' however, a day is still a day, and all days are more or less equally long. Based on what we know, the formation of the sun, changing of the atmosphere on Earth, evolution of animals and man, etc, all happened in varying time frames, and so you can't just say that a single day to God can span millions or billions of years. That's just poor apologetics.

[The Batman]

I wasn't using it to explain evolution I was simply using it to explain the time frame of the earth being created so people won't think that god did it in 6 24 hour days. The truth is i could really care less about any of it my beliefs on Christianity have always been more questions than answers so i don't care if he did it in 6 minutes and rested for 60 secs.

[Sage]

I wasn't using it to explain evolution I was simply using it to explain the time frame of the earth being created so people won't think that god did it in 6 24 hour days. The truth is i could really care less about any of it my beliefs on Christianity have always been more questions than answers so i don't care if he did it in 6 minutes and rested for 60 secs.

Ahem.

The 7-day creation story doesn't only deal with the Earth. It deals with the creation of the sun ("Let there be light"), among the creation of birds and fish and animals all on different days.

[The Batman]

I know the story I just wasn't thinking about the sun.

[Whisper]

how convenient that there seems to be an answer for everything....kinda boring and simplistic to me. To each his own I suppose

I think its rather arrogant to think that we're so special, to lift ourselves up on such a pedestal
to think that we're made in the image of some all knowing, all powerful being
God's favorite
Angels, the perfect beings forced to bow before us or face damnation like Lucifer the fairest and strongest of the Angels, he who refused to bow sentenced to eternal torment.


Don't get me wrong
I love anything supernatural, hell I love the show
I went through years of religious studies
and I recognize that religion has done allot of good throughout history, but it is also responsible for unspeakable horror

In our modern "civalized" world you'd think we'd be able to rise above the petty differences
instead its turned into yet another war
that of faith vs reason

the founding fathers of science would be rolling over in there graves
they desired a symbiotic relationship between the two, harmony

but it weakened the power of the church
the dark ages began
and science was plunged into the shadows

The church did the same thing to anyone suspected of practicing paganism
....It wasn't called the dark ages because it was dark...



I wonder how long this will continue
or if it's gone on for so long now its become an integral part of being a devout follower or a genuine scientist

[The Batman]

I wish there was a way for science and religions to coexist, but some people just can't grasp that concept. I myself don't try to convert anyone, I believe that everyone will find their own path on their own and that they should be free to believe in whatever they want. If more people would try and create harmony between differences instead of assimilation then I think this world would be a much better place.

[Truth]

Regardless of the definition of 'day' however, a day is still a day, and all days are more or less equally long. Based on what we know, the formation of the sun, changing of the atmosphere on Earth, evolution of animals and man, etc, all happened in varying time frames, and so you can't just say that a single day to God can span millions or billions of years. That's just poor apologetics. Im not christian, but what proof do you have that a 'day', to a god, was 24 hours? How do you know the sun and moon were even used for timing, and not for being awake, and being asleep. You can't say god had days that were billions of years, nor can you say god had days according to our 24 hours. Either way, what you said was your opinion. But, it has absolutely nothing to back it up. Us humans decided to make a day 24 hours, not god.

[Sage]

Im not christian, but what proof do you have that a 'day', to a god, was 24 hours?

None, because nowhere in my post did I make that claim. Did you unintentionally quote the wrong poster?

[Truth]

None, because nowhere in my post did I make that claim. Did you unintentionally quote the wrong poster? It's funny how you just quote part of it and say i didn't claim it had proof. Why did you post it then?

[Sage]

It's funny how you just quote part of it and say i didn't claim it had proof. Why did you post it then?

._.

The point I was making in my post is that one can't simply say that the 7 day creation story happened in more than 7 24-hour days because no matter how long you consider a 'day' to be, it must still be the same length as every other day. I also don't believe in a literal, 7-24-hour-day creation story because what we know about science tells us otherwise.

I honestly do not know why you are jumping on me over this. I'm not arguing for Christianity. The first post of mine that you quoted was a refutation of someone else.

[The Batman]

He was refuting what I said he didn't say anything about it being 7 literaly days.

[trevor20800]

religion fits very closely with this riddle "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Metaphorically speaking i think the egg (God) came first, because just thinking logistically someone had to create something. But at the same time, where did God create everything from. Personally believe that there is a God. I am a full on Christian. If you walk into a church ready and eager to hear about God, you will feel His holy spirit come down on you, but if you walk in with a cold heart that is not open to anything new, you will not feel it. Think of it this way, are you going to like more foods if you are willing to try them? The funny thing about Christianity is that people think you have to work to get to heaven. They think you have to work to be free of your sins. But all it takes is believing. Jesus died on the cross to forgive you of your sins, and all you have to do is believe in that. If you really want to hear more just email me at [email protected]

In His Majesty's service.
Trevor

[Poetic Folly]

You really can not prove nor disprove an intelligent designer. All the facts contradict themselves, so we must choose a side. But the real point is, if a theist says 'OMG GOD EXIST', an atheist will say 'NO HE FUCKING DOESN'T'
What is the argument leading to? No one is going to change there ideas because someone else said the exact opposite of what they think.

This is why I'm a pacifist, fighting accomplishes nothing.

[Sage]

religion fits very closely with this riddle "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

No, it's not like that. We know for a fact that a chicken and an egg mutally need eachother to exist. This is not the case with God and humans. God would exist if there were no humans just as humans would exist without a God.

Think of it this way, are you going to like more foods if you are willing to try them?

I've eaten a lot of things I told myself I'd never try (grasshoppers being one of them, blagh) and I actually quite liked some of them. Again, you use a poor analogy.

Jesus died on the cross to forgive you of your sins, and all you have to do is believe in that.

Are you unaware of how unappealing the idea of being in debt to someone from the moment you are born (from conception, even, depending who you ask) is to some people?

[JunkBondTrader]

I guess the answer to all of your questions like in one simple answer ... I guess Faith plays the most inportant role in here

And science cannot explain everything ... No it cant ... Science is just another form of religion that we believe in because it gives us proof that we cannot deny ...

And I guess if God wanted us to give us proof he would but I guess he is testing our belief in him ...

Science cannot explain everything but faith explains nothing. Faith is simply assuming something and following it without reason.

And why would god possibly want to test out faith? The whole "test for the afterlife" hypothesis is incredibly cruel as it suggests that god created us and now he's effectively leading us into temptation what with all the sin on earth and that.

[Death]

religion fits very closely with this riddle "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Metaphorically speaking i think the egg (God) came first, because just thinking logistically someone had to create something.

Okay, I odn't know why you seem to be connecting religion with the chicken ad the egg thing. Why does God need to exist for humanity to be existant? How is this logical like you claim it to be? You also say that someone needed to create what we see now but you know damn well that, that raises the question of who created God. Don't say that he was always there since you could say the same about the universe. Of course, we do not say thats true since collecting matter can form objects (like Earth - excluding the extras added on by us) and that is what creates all the objects in space.

But at the same time, where did God create everything from. Personally believe that there is a God. I am a full on Christian. If you walk into a church ready and eager to hear about God, you will feel His holy spirit come down on you, but if you walk in with a cold heart that is not open to anything new, you will not feel it.

Thus far, this is one of the most far-fetched ideas I've come across. If you feel that there is some weird presense of some supernatural being when you walk into a church then that's simply your thoughts emotions. Why you seem to be under the impression that some invisible man, who loves killing anyone who does not represent his 'perfect image', is responsible for your feelings is beyond me.

Think of it this way, are you going to like more foods if you are willing to try them? The funny thing about Christianity is that people think you have to work to get to heaven. They think you have to work to be free of your sins.

What you are saying is refuting your religion. Some people in your religion (according to you) belive yo have to work to get into Heaven while others don't. Has God not made this clear yet? Why? Because he's incompetant? Or does he simply ignore you? Or the more plausible and logical reason of him simply not being existant?

But all it takes is believing. Jesus died on the cross to forgive you of your sins, and all you have to do is believe in that.

So God does not allow non-believers into his paradice? Well that is very nasty of him. There's no way that I would want to believe in someone like that. And Jesus dying to save our sins does not seem like much of an argument. Not only are most sins perfectly acceptable when it comes to morals (homosexuality, athiesm, cohabitation... - perfectly acceptable and legal but they are what your lot call 'sins') but also they still exist. People still do sinful and evil things today and they are not always forgiven. If Jesus did exist, he sacrificed himself for nothing which is quite mad to be honest.[/QUOTE]

Science cannot explain everything but faith explains nothing. Faith is simply assuming something and following it without reason.

This is exactly true. The very fact that the belief in certian religions is imply faith proves that you have absolutely nothing solid with which to back your story up and thus it seems very odd to still blindly believe in it.

And why would god possibly want to test out faith? The whole "test for the afterlife" hypothesis is incredibly cruel as it suggests that god created us and now he's effectively leading us into temptation what with all the sin on earth and that.

Precisely true. If God is testing our faith in him and therefore not showing that he exists, how in the hells can we even know that he exists at all? We would have had to have assumed that's the case which is utterly pointless. And yes, it would be very cruel if this were to truly be the case since God would be penilising those who looked to logical science in order to explain thigs properly instead of thanking and blaming everything on an imaginary friend. It would seem a lot more plausible to say that God is not existant and there's more interesting ways which can be proved to explain why certain things exist and things work as they are.

Remember that science does not try to make out that it knows everything. It admits that there is stuff yet to be explained. Religion on the other hand has to 'know it all' since it pulls all of its ideas out of thin air, throws in a lot of harmful discrimination along the way, and truly explains nothing. Religion can't know anything and it is only making itself look improbable.

[Antares]

I think it is basically impossible to physically prove that god exists. When you look up, I don't see him.
When I look down, I don't see the devil.
We don't know if heaven exists because no one has been there and back. And even if someone has, how do we know its true and they insane.

The fact is you really can't prove god is real. And if you can, I would like to see it.

Thanks.

[INFERNO]

religion fits very closely with this riddle "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Metaphorically speaking i think the egg (God) came first, because just thinking logistically someone had to create something.

I'm not following this. First, I'm not seeing the logic in here at all, I'm simply seeing you applying your beliefs to a rather common paradox. Second, your argument is rather weak for a few reasons. First, you gave no reason as to why god shouldn't be the chicken as opposed to the egg. Presuming you know the accepted answer to the riddle, you've represented god by the egg. Lastly, why does it have to be someone to have created something? Why cant it be another something created something?


But at the same time, where did God create everything from.

Well this is another issue that is usually resolved by someone saying he's all-powerful and somehow is able to create everything. The question I ask rather is where did god come from? The answers of he made himself or he was always there I find to be a cop-out answer.


Personally believe that there is a God. I am a full on Christian. If you walk into a church ready and eager to hear about God, you will feel His holy spirit come down on you, but if you walk in with a cold heart that is not open to anything new, you will not feel it.

This is true for pretty much everything. If you walk into a classroom and don't want to learn, you probably won't learn much compared to if you walk in eager and ready. I'm not really understanding the point of bringing this aspect up.


Think of it this way, are you going to like more foods if you are willing to try them? The funny thing about Christianity is that people think you have to work to get to heaven. They think you have to work to be free of your sins. But all it takes is believing.

If all it takes it believing, then the reference to the food doesn't make too much sense. The way that your food reference does make sense is if you're encouraging people to eat more foods, hence, encouraging people to give a try at Christianity.


Jesus died on the cross to forgive you of your sins, and all you have to do is believe in that.

I won't speak for everyone but this is where I'm not particularly a big fan of: being told that all you need to do is believe that somoene's son was killed on a cross, rose up and all I need to do is believe in a corpse (which somehow is also a god).

But that aside, there's another reason, a much bigger reason why what you said steers me away. If we are to be forgiven for our sins, then why do people still get punished for them? Why does god still get angry and demand that those who commit those sins get killed or punished in some way? If we were forgiven of them ahead of time, then none of that should happen, yet it still does happen.

A possible argument I've heard, although it's not very good, is that you must accept the religion in the first place and then be humble, etc... . That argument I'm not a fan of because it requires that first you drop whatever you believe in and go with this other belief. It then further makes Jesus's sacrifice something that doesn't really do anything because we still have to ask to be forgiven and if we aren't then we're screwed. But if Jesus did die on the cross, then there'd be no purpose in asking for forgiveness because you'd already have been forgiven.

[sebbie]

And why would god possibly want to test out faith? The whole "test for the afterlife" hypothesis is incredibly cruel as it suggests that god created us and now he's effectively leading us into temptation what with all the sin on earth and that.

Isn't the Christian faith, that it is the Devil that tempts people to Sin, wheras we humans have the choice to act on the temptations.

I think it is basically impossible to physically prove that god exists. When you look up, I don't see him.
When I look down, I don't see the devil.
We don't know if heaven exists because no one has been there and back. And even if someone has, how do we know its true and they insane.

The fact is you really can't prove god is real. And if you can, I would like to see it.

Thanks.

Who is to say that if a God does exist it is within our sight range or that he is above us, to the side of us and the same as the Devil being below us.

However I agree with you where you say that scientifically we cannot prove the existence of a God/supernatural being, and if anyone thinks they can I to would like to see it.

[JunkBondTrader]

Isn't the Christian faith, that it is the Devil that tempts people to Sin, wheras we humans have the choice to act on the temptations.

Yes, but if life is a test then god is putting us here to see if we give in to the devil. Would it not be better to simply keep us away from him?

[Antares]

Who is to say that if a God does exist it is within our sight range or that he is above us, to the side of us and the same as the Devil being below us.

Science.

[Death]

Science.

Would you mind elaborating on this?

[INFERNO]

Science.

You said before you cannot prove god exists, so now I'm curious as to how science is going to show he does exist where he is said to exist?

[Sapphire]

For the last time, God's existence cannot be proved or disproved.
It doesn't matter what you want to use to try to prove/disprove him, it just cannot be done.

[Antares]

Sorry, I misread that statement by...whoever I quoted above.

What I meant to prove was that science is full of...truth. The very point of science is to figure out how stuff works and such. Science has...developed to the point where there are things you have to believe are true, such as laws and then theories which maybe is true.

My point is that science would be basically the only...thing that would prove/disprove the existance of god or jesus or whatever. The only other thing would be actual human account, upon human account, backed up by another human account, at the same time being accounted for by humans.

[Church]

I believe there is a God but it doesn't conform to a single religion.

[marty]

I don't think that a god who supposedly loves all humans unconditionally would create a stillborn.

They haven't even gotten the chance to sin yet, and he already killed them.

[Sage]

I don't think that a god who supposedly loves all humans unconditionally would create a stillborn.

They haven't even gotten the chance to sin yet, and he already killed them.

That's where the concept of original sin comes into play. Go read up about it. It basically explains that we're all sinners regardless of what we do.

[Whisper]

That's where the concept of original sin comes into play. Go read up about it. It basically explains that we're all sinners regardless of what we do.

Then god is fundamentally flawed
If we're supposedly his creations
designed in his image

[Sage]

Then god is fundamentally flawed
If we're supposedly his creations
designed in his image

Yeah, but then christians will ramble on about free will and Satan and Adam and Eve and stuff. I don't know. I'm not expert. Just playind devil's advocate here- pun intended.

[Bougainvillea]

That's where the concept of original sin comes into play. Go read up about it. It basically explains that we're all sinners regardless of what we do.

That's TERRIBLE.

[MisterMonster]

Jesus definately did exist, he was a man, it was a popular name. He could have been a con man, the son of god or just a prophet, who knows?

[Sage]

That's TERRIBLE.

Hey man, I didn't write it.

[kipper]

does not prove any thing

[The Batman]

Please don't bump old threads :locked: