Men are better than women

[Ripplemagne]

Every major religion is in agreeance that males are the dominant gender. Perhaps they are not better than women at everything, but in general, men are exceedingly superior to women. Religions agree on this because throughout our anthropology, men have used women for two things: making babies and making sandwiches.

I feel that society has warped our perceptions of people, so that we fall deeper into the Egalitarian Duplicity (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=408674623&blogId=442599627). By further perpetuating that we are all, indeed, equal even by something as archaically outrageous as gender, it makes this phenomenon grow even more. Because it's psychologically embedded into our mind from adolescence that gender roles do not exist, we consider such thoughts to be outlandish and barbaric, but I think it's barbaric to deny candor and make free thought a pariah.

Men are better than women. (http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/)

Discuss.

[Sage]

All I have to the matter is that it's that sort of attitude that'll leave you a lonely person. : )

[Ripplemagne]

Why is that? Because the feminist agenda is sensitive about it? Believe it or not, someone can be sexist without being abusive to women. In fact, by conservative standards of gender, a sexist will treat a woman better than his pussy whipped counterpart. And why is that? Because a conservative view of women states that men are the woman's protector.

The only wimmenz that would give up association with me over my viewpoints on gender are the stuck up, pinko liberal ones that I wouldn't want to come in contact with anyway.

[Dagenadriel]

Why is that? Because the feminist agenda is sensitive about it? Believe it or not, someone can be sexist without being abusive to women. In fact, by conservative standards of gender, a sexist will treat a woman better than his pussy whipped counterpart. And why is that? Because a conservative view of women states that men are the woman's protector.

The only wimmenz that would give up association with me over my viewpoints on gender are the stuck up, pinko liberal ones that I wouldn't want to come in contact with anyway.

The only women that would date a sexist guy are either short a few brain-cells, or have no respect for themselves.

[MoveAlong]

No. Men are not better than women.

[Ripplemagne]

The only women that would date a sexist guy are either short a few brain-cells, or have no respect for themselves.

How about explaining your logic instead? Or better yet, how about explaining why sexism requires being short of brain cells? You haven't even considered the possibility of what I'm saying and therein illustrates the cerebral capacity here.

A woman dating a sexist doesn't have a low self esteem and isn't short of brains. Yes, there is a possibility that there are women who would date a sexist who fit this criteria, but why can't the girl just be a free thinker, who has analyzed the situation carefully and came to the same conclusion?

No. Men are not better than women.

Wow! That refuted everything I said! And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

[MoveAlong]

Wow! That refuted everything I said! And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

Omg! I know right! Hahaha :D

:roll:

[Cloud]

true that men may be superior in certain aspects of life. but women also have the things that are superior to men. but which of these aspects is it that is decided which sex is superior. if its based on quantity then its like a man who caught ten tny fish saying he beat a man who caught a giant shark becuase he had more where the skark catcher had the greatest catch.
Yes in certain things one sex is superior.
i thnk if everything is taken into account depending on how you look at it then one sex will always be superior but it may not necessarily be the male.

[Ripplemagne]

true that men may be superior in certain aspects of life. but women also have the things that are superior to men. but which of these aspects is it that is decided which sex is superior. if its based on quantity then its like a man who caught ten tny fish saying he beat a man who caught a giant shark becuase he had more where the skark catcher had the greatest catch.

Perhaps they are not better than women at everything, but in general, men are exceedingly superior to women.

Bolded points agree.

You've made a valid point, but the analogy is incorrect. It's not a giant shark versus a hundred small fish. It's more like a a sperm whale (men) versus a small shark (women).

Now, I'm not saying that I hate women or that they are no better than dogs. Certainly, one does not have to be useless for them to be inferior. But the fact of the matter is that men win in both quality and quantity.

Repped for making an argument without ad hominem.

[INFERNO]

The only women that would date a sexist guy are either short a few brain-cells, or have no respect for themselves.

Perhaps some may not be playing with a full deck or have little respect but I wouldn't make such a sweeping statement that all women who date a sexist guy are such. Not complying to social norms doesn't necessarily mean you're head it out to lunch or you don't respect yourself. A woman could date a sexist guy if she feels that it is "safe" enough to do so.

But to Ripplemagne, I think women are better at men at some things and men are better at women at other things. I don't think that one gender is completely better than the other. It can be argued that men have in a sense dominated women for years but the issue with that is that women are now a common sight in the work force. They are now working in many jobs that initially were male-dominated, so while we may have dominated them in the past, they are now making considerable progress. To me, this leaves only two possibilities: men are better than women but not by much or women are equal to men. In terms of their ability to perform on the job, if one man and one woman had the same education, same intelligence, age, etc..., then I'd assume they'd probably be roughly equal. If it's more physically-demanding labour, then perhaps men would be better at it but if it is not, then they may be about equal.

The religion evidence that you used only shows a snapshot in time of how society back then once was. It is obvious that it is not completely the same as it is in modern times so I don't see the religion evidence as being strong evidence at all. If anything, it'd serve best as a nice introduction to your debate but nothing more. I'm not sure if you were using it as evidence or if it was simply for a nice introduction.

What is your evidence to support the notion that as adolescence, we don't perceive gender roles to exist? I don't know if this is simply a reflection of your up-bringing or if it is something supported by some nice statistical evidence. Since you don't show any statistical evidence, I'm assuming it's a reflection of your up-bringing coming into play here. Different cultures have different perceptions of gender roles so to some cultures, it would be outrageous to assume that gender roles do not exist.

No. Men are not better than women.

So either men are equal to women or women are better than men. I don't know which one you're going for though.

[Silverfist64]

But the fact of the matter is that men win in both quality and quantity.

Lol...not exactly in either point given. The Y chromosome (which is necessary for the fetus to become a male) female=XX Male=XY)) is starting to disappear (it will take millions of years but it is) and females are starting to raise in percentage over males. If i am not mistaken last time i checked the worlds population is 51% female and 49% male. That just shows that men are NOT superior to women in quantity. How about quality.....well you stated that women are only good for two things....making babies and making sandwhiches. Well then, what are men good for? Making the babies and eating the sandwhiches. Men have it easy. They work hard for a few minutes to create a baby but the female has to support and nurish for the 9 months its in the womb and then when it is born and is growing up. Women are far superior in quantity and quality.

[Bougainvillea]

I like how not one girl has posted in this

[Sapphire]

Oh threads like this make me so angry.
Sexist attitudes are more often than not the reason behind women who have been raped not telling anyone and not reporting the crime. An example of such an attitude is that the woman probably asked for the attack by dressing provocatively or flirting.

Men do not "win in both quality and quantity".
For starters, there are more women in the world than men.
Secondly, both sexes have different strengths and weaknesses. For example, throughout school males tend to be more scientifically minded and females tend to be more literary minded. There are aspects of jobs that men are generally better at and there are aspects that women are generally better at. Similar differences between the two are seen outside of the workplace too (e.g. driving and memory).

As far as gender roles are concerned, they are present in our lives from the moment we are born until the moment we die. Whether we follow them or defy them is another matter though.

It is not too much to ask for everyone to be treated equally. Yes, we are different but different doesn't equate to unequal.

[LiGHT]

IMO I think women should have just as much power as men even though they can.
Men aren't better then women in everything. IF there were no women we would have people (babies :P)

[Poetic Folly]

It depends on the person.

[MoveAlong]

You know, why does it even matter whether men or women are better? The world's fine.

[Poetic Folly]

It's all generalizations. Just because someone thinks something and is in a group, that group gets the blame.

[Bougainvillea]

Sapphire's post is well said. :) +Rep

EDIT: Never mind. I guess I have to spread it around first...?

[Jean Poutine]

Gender roles should and do exist. Period.

If you think genders are equal, you're deluded.

Policewoman - a 5', frail girl isn't going to be able to arrest a man with a foot and lots of pounds on her. Weapon hands can be controlled and damage can be inflicted. In my opinion, women that are not of a certain physical shape have no business in the police.

I would like my woman to stay at home. I do not think there's anything wrong with being an housekeeper - in fact it requires lots of energy and I think women staying at home are doing an admirable sacrifice.

[Sapphire]

If you think genders are equal, you're deluded.
Just because women have different strengths/weaknesses to men doesn't mean we aren't equal as human beings.

[Whisper]

Carole he's french they don't get an opinion -waves hand-

Humanity is about diversity
My dad can do many things my mum can't
my mum can do many things my dad cannot
its a symbiotic relationship
we need eachother
simple as that

[INFERNO]

If you think genders are equal, you're deluded.

Why? Men may be more physically dominant most of the time and as Sapphire mentioned, they tend to be more scientifically-oriented. That does not mean the overall men are better. Women generally lack the overall physical strength of men, however, they make up for it in other ways, such as being better at a different academia. Women carry babies for several months, which I can assume requires a hell of a lot of work physically on their part.

Men and women do have their differences in their strengths and weaknesses but I see no reason for one to be considered better than the other.

But tell me, what makes one gender better than the other?

[Dreaming Cannibal]

So… you wrote that article because someone hurt your ego and called you a jerk?

Well, just two things.

One is in relation to this quote "As a hypothetical, lets imagine a debate between two people of the highest intellectual quotients on the planet. Quite obviously, there is going to be a winner. As a byproduct, there has to be a loser because for every winner, there is (at minimum) one loser." The intellectual quality of a person cannot be measured accurately since every human has a "unique" way to think. Intellectually, person A and B can be equal or one can have a higher intellectual and still that does not differ by genre. Also the whole idea of a winner and a loser existing is always going to void, humans are not most intelligent being on this planet. We as egotistical as we are refuse to believe that truth.

And the other one, it relates to this quote "That's not to say that equality doesn't exist, but it's not an absolute concept. To claim that all people are equal is to oppose many biblical concepts. In addition, it contradicts the very concept of natural selection and survival of the fittest." Out of curiosity, What biblical concepts? And yes i'll give that to you, equality is not an absolute concept, it does contradict the survival of the fittest concept, but it is a concept that must be applied on humanity. Man and woman, are equal because they compliment each other, to reproduce a human male sperm must be germinated in a female ovary. Both woman and men are as important so humanity can exist, that's what as gender makes us equal.

[Hyper]

I seriously do not see why everyone is getting worked over this.. Also like 95% of the replies to Ripplemagnes post are quoting him and bashing him on the opposite of what he said or represented.

Fact ( FOR ME or rather belief ) is that men & women have ( usually ) different strengths and weaknesses; usually men are physically stronger, think more constructively and scientifically, are better at making quick decisions and so on and on

Since I said USUALLY that doesn't mean a woman can't have those qualities.. And in general I tend to think women are a bit more mixed on the gender qualities than men.

I don't think either are better or worse in general, both need eachother in the grand scheme of things ( i.e reproduction )..

Men have just done different things for humanity that have usually been more visible or constructive while women have always been and always will be the support for all societies all over the world, to me there is nothing more important than taking care of your family and women all over the world do that in general more than the men. Sorry I just support classical gender roles of the women being at home and the man working say whatever you want about women making careers idc. I'd want my kids mom to be home and have time to be with her kids and I'd want her to have enough money from me to do things with her kids and alone on that time..

I definitely don't treat women the same as men because men & women are different and in my view women are to be taken care of and pampered a little which does not mean they can't be independent.

Whatever I ran off a block here but yeah I don't see why most of you are bashing Ripplemagne instead of debating him

[Antares]

Well.
Wow. First off, that video,
T0xoKiH8JJM

is completely ridiculous. This is a fucking asshole and he needs to realize that women are better than him in many many different ways.

I mean. His viewpoints and comments were...unfathomable. I cant...just wow.
I mean it was entertaining but. Okay, yea.

I disagree with the notion that Men are better than women. I am a man. I personally think men are stupid very often. Women seem to be more grounded and more mature. Girls seem to continually do better in school and seem to be a bit more successful...as far as graduating and finding jobs.

I think that history has proven to us that men screw stuff up...a lot. Maybe it is time to give women a chance...I think it would be interesting to make women leaders and see how stuff pans out.

In addition, I want to say that we are not equal and we will basically probably never be equal. Women are not equal to men. Never will be. They will always be treated differently because of sexism, etc.

[Sapphire]

We are equal, we just aren't treated as such.

[ShatteredWings]

Just because women have different strengths/weaknesses to men doesn't mean we aren't equal as human beings.

This.

Before this thread gets locked.
Sexism is one of the STUPIDEST things on earth. Major religions are patriarchal because at the time, brute strength = dominance.
I am a man. I personally think men are stupid very often. Women seem to be more grounded and more mature. Girls seem to continually do better in school and seem to be a bit more successful...as far as graduating and finding jobs.
Have you ever looked at inner-city graduations? At least 80% of them are female. The boys tend to drop out young and often end up in prison. Yes, the graduation rate in theses places is less than 20% -- meaning most of the girls drop out too -- but it really shows who puts more focus on education.
No, that does not mean men are stupid blithering vegetables.

What's shocking is that minor sexism finds its way into education too. My honors math and science classes have notably fewer girls than honors english and foreign language classes, and teachers are surprised that the girls in the math classes do well, as well as the boys doing well in languages. Not really giving both genders a fair education is it?

We're living in 2009, not 1009. Why do people cling to the archaic belief that one gender is better than the other?

[sebbie]

Men are better than women in some things.
Women are better than men in some things.
Men and women can be equal in some things.

To assess the difference between men and women carrying out roles and then descriminating on who will perform better due to their gender is descrimination/ sexist but it is not always a negative thing.

People need to realise the differences between the genders and stop trying to cross over the gaps. An example of crossing over is this thread: http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=48127

On a random more funny slightly offtopic note, a song about women :p

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[Antares]

We are equal, we just aren't treated as such.

Well you're not really equal as human beings...you're different. You have different things to deal with. Physically, we are often different. It is a fact that men are bigger than women on average. We aren't equal in many ways.

[Atonement]

Its quite simple we are equal. For the woman that marry sexist men, thats their own damn fault for not choosing correctly and puting up with what they deserve.

[Sapphire]

Well you're not really equal as human beings...you're different. You have different things to deal with. Physically, we are often different. It is a fact that men are bigger than women on average. We aren't equal in many ways.What?!
We're not equal because we're different?!
Oh. My. God.
People from differing cultures aren't the same and have different problems so do you extend your faulty logic on to those groups as well as women?

I don't quite believe my eyes - the people posting the absolute shite I've been reading in this thread can't honestly believe these things iin the 21st Century....

[Triceratops]

As said before, men and women both have their own strengths and weaknesses, even ones that don't fit into the typical stereotypes each gender is commonly placed in. Although most men are generally physically stronger than women, but that's natural. However, there are going to be women who are a lot stronger than the most muscular man down your local gym...

The reason you hear more of legendary male achievers than female is because the stereotype "men are superior to women" may have been more considered back in the past. However, this is 2009, things have changed and you'll find there are just as many intelligent and talented women as there are men.

I definitely don't agree with the typical "men should go out and work and women should stay at home" saying. If I were married, I would be quite happy to take on the traditional 'dominant' role in the household and go out to work each day and provide enough money for the family whereas my husband can stay at home and look after the house and children. Women are just as capable of that as men are.

[Bougainvillea]

I agree with Marcie on this one.
Did you know that stay at home dads are more prone to heart attacks? :)

Oh, and I would LOVE to see that guy get his ass handed to him by a girl.

[Death]

I, speaking as a male, am suprised at the intolerance this thread. Both males and females are vital for humanity to continue. Why are males superior? Because females are different? Has it not occured to you that their physical differences are so that they are able to have sex with males and thus create more humans? Also, is the fact that most religions seem to favour males truly evidence for males' superiority? In my knowledge, religion has a lot of discrimination in it and that is why I have nothing to do with it. I therefore suggest that (those of you who believe that males are superior) you revise your thoughts on woman since overall, neither sex is better. All that makes people think that one sex is better is intolerance.

[Ripplemagne]

I almost finished responding to Inferno last night, but my computer blue screened and I lost it. Anyway, I'll try to summarize it in this post.

But to Ripplemagne, I think women are better at men at some things and men are better at women at other things. I don't think that one gender is completely better than the other.

Once again,

Perhaps they are not better than women at everything, but in general, men are exceedingly superior to women.

I never said that they were better at everything. Certainly, one does not need to be useless to be inferior. An Apache Helicopter is superior to most other helicopters, but they still have their uses.

It can be argued that men have in a sense dominated women for years but the issue with that is that women are now a common sight in the work force. They are now working in many jobs that initially were male-dominated, so while we may have dominated them in the past, they are now making considerable progress. To me, this leaves only two possibilities: men are better than women but not by much or women are equal to men. In terms of their ability to perform on the job, if one man and one woman had the same education, same intelligence, age, etc..., then I'd assume they'd probably be roughly equal. If it's more physically-demanding labour, then perhaps men would be better at it but if it is not, then they may be about equal.

The fact remains, however, that they were in that position to begin with and only came out of it due to political and male influence. There would be no women suffrage or rights if men collectively agreed that they should not have any.

Now, I'm not under the impression that women should not have rights. I believe everyone should enjoy the same rights. However, equal rights is not mutually inclusive with equal skill.

The religion evidence that you used only shows a snapshot in time of how society back then once was. It is obvious that it is not completely the same as it is in modern times so I don't see the religion evidence as being strong evidence at all. If anything, it'd serve best as a nice introduction to your debate but nothing more. I'm not sure if you were using it as evidence or if it was simply for a nice introduction.

It was just an introduction.

What is your evidence to support the notion that as adolescence, we don't perceive gender roles to exist? I don't know if this is simply a reflection of your up-bringing or if it is something supported by some nice statistical evidence. Since you don't show any statistical evidence, I'm assuming it's a reflection of your up-bringing coming into play here. Different cultures have different perceptions of gender roles so to some cultures, it would be outrageous to assume that gender roles do not exist.

I think you missed what I was saying. I'm saying that the media and our cultural values that dupe us into believing into absolute egalitarianism affects our views on this.

Lol...not exactly in either point given. The Y chromosome (which is necessary for the fetus to become a male) female=XX Male=XY)) is starting to disappear (it will take millions of years but it is) and females are starting to raise in percentage over males. If i am not mistaken last time i checked the worlds population is 51% female and 49% male. That just shows that men are NOT superior to women in quantity. How about quality.....well you stated that women are only good for two things....making babies and making sandwhiches. Well then, what are men good for? Making the babies and eating the sandwhiches. Men have it easy. They work hard for a few minutes to create a baby but the female has to support and nurish for the 9 months its in the womb and then when it is born and is growing up. Women are far superior in quantity and quality.

First of all, please cite sources if you're going to state statistics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/SAT_by_sex.png

There are sources that, clearly, state the inverse, so if you're going to say something, back it up.

Second of all, that isn't an indicator of dominance in either quality or quantity. All that demonstrates is that there are more females than males. How does that imply, in any way, that one gender is superior to the other or that they are equal?

I understand where your argument is coming from, but it's on hollow grounds and doesn't necessarily address the issue.

As for the latter concern of yours, I'm glad you brought up the carrying of the child in the womb. Because your own logic works in the inverse. If men were the inferior gender, then they would carry the child while the women works as hunter/gatherer. A woman carries the child because the man is better at doing everything else.

But where you deduce your closing statement from one factor is beyond me.

"A hundred years ago, the observation that men were different from women, in a whole range of aptitudes, skills, and abilities, would have been a leaden truism, a statement of the yawningly obvious. Such a remark, uttered today, would evoke very different reactions. Said by a man, it would suggest a certain social ineptitude, a naivete in matters of sexual politics, a sad deficiency in conventional wisdom, or a clumsy attempt to be provacative. A woman venturing such an opinion would be scorned as a traitor to her sex, betraying the hard-fought "victories" of recent decades as women have sought equality of status, opportunity and respect."

Oh threads like this make me so angry.
Sexist attitudes are more often than not the reason behind women who have been raped not telling anyone and not reporting the crime. An example of such an attitude is that the woman probably asked for the attack by dressing provocatively or flirting.

Oh, please. That's like me saying that all feminists are separatists.

For starters, there are more women in the world than men.

And how does that invalidate anything I've said? Men are better at more things and more valuable things. Where does the amount of individuals come into play?

And what statistics are you going on to affirm this, anyway?

Secondly, both sexes have different strengths and weaknesses. For example, throughout school males tend to be more scientifically minded and females tend to be more literary minded. There are aspects of jobs that men are generally better at and there are aspects that women are generally better at. Similar differences between the two are seen outside of the workplace too (e.g. driving and memory).

Are you basing this off of personal experience or empirical data?

Even though this article (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/01/050121100142.htm) and this article (http://www.metafilter.com/38832/White-Matter-and-Gray-Matter-a-Matter-of-the-Sexes), try not to offend anyone by pretending they are equal, they are certainly not. According to studies, males have a greater supply of gray matter in their brains, while women have a greater supply of white matter.

To those of you who do not know what this means, I'll briefly explain the difference between the two. Gray matter is used for computing, whilst white matter is used for transferring information. What does this mean, exactly? Well, as Dick Masterson so eloquently put it: "Imagine a fire hose. As men, that’s very easy to do. Now with a man, the hose works properly and puts out the fire. That’s a metaphor for how we use our properly functioning grey matter brains to get the job done. Women, however, take the end of the hose and connect it to the beginning. They spend their entire fucking lives mucking around in their white matter brains, networking bullshit that’s got nothing to do with anything and running around like hens without heads."

Then lets take the self-evident factor of emotion versus logic and contrast how the two work in both sexes and it's clear that men are more logical thinkers, while women are more emotional. What does this mean? It means that men are going to observe things objectively, on average, and are, thus, better problem solvers. But you already mentioned that men are, generally, more scientifically gifted. Though, this also goes hand in hand with mathematics.

As for a literary affinity, I can see where that deduction would come from. As they are more emotional, poetry and prose are more common among them than for males. Generally, anyway. But frequency of writing does not indicate that they are better at it. All it means is that they tend to be more expressive with things.

This article (http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/just-because-you-suck-at-math-doesnt-mean-youre-good-at-not-math/) is in fratire, but illustrates a very good point about the supposed literary affinity. Have you ever taken the time to carefully review these literary exams? Math and science are, in most cases, infallible. But I've taken tests of this sort where the results were as asinine as illustrated in this article. Half of the time, I'm thinking to myself that these questions are open ended or vague.

But I'm going to give a personal example of why literary examinations are inane. It's self evident that I am a proficient writer. Well, for my my State Wide Regents, the English examination was divided into two portions; the multiple choice half and the essay half. Effortlessly, I received a perfect score on the multiple choice, but I failed the exam. Do you know why?

Despite writing a beautiful essay with no grammatical errors, my essay received next to no credit because I didn't answer the question to their liking. Even though I, clearly, did answer the question and detailed, recorded and analyzed every scintilla of the topic, they felt that I didn't answer the question. So, despite the fact that the examination is not a Do What We Say examination and is meant to gauge our literary prowess, I had to redo the test.

There's your literary advantage for ya.

Men aren't better then women in everything. IF there were no women we would have people (babies

1. I said that.

2. And without men, we wouldn't have them either.

So… you wrote that article because someone hurt your ego and called you a jerk?

What are you talking about? I wrote that article because natural equality is a myth.

One is in relation to this quote "As a hypothetical, lets imagine a debate between two people of the highest intellectual quotients on the planet. Quite obviously, there is going to be a winner. As a byproduct, there has to be a loser because for every winner, there is (at minimum) one loser." The intellectual quality of a person cannot be measured accurately since every human has a "unique" way to think. Intellectually, person A and B can be equal or one can have a higher intellectual and still that does not differ by genre. Also the whole idea of a winner and a loser existing is always going to void, humans are not most intelligent being on this planet. We as egotistical as we are refuse to believe that truth.

Oh really? Then what, pray tell, is?

Your points are still very hollow. It is of the compensating mentality. Hint: Look up rationalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(psychology)). You can call a loser unique; it doesn't make them any less inferior.

And the other one, it relates to this quote "That's not to say that equality doesn't exist, but it's not an absolute concept. To claim that all people are equal is to oppose many biblical concepts. In addition, it contradicts the very concept of natural selection and survival of the fittest." Out of curiosity, What biblical concepts? And yes i'll give that to you, equality is not an absolute concept, it does contradict the survival of the fittest concept, but it is a concept that must be applied on humanity. Man and woman, are equal because they compliment each other, to reproduce a human male sperm must be germinated in a female ovary. Both woman and men are as important so humanity can exist, that's what as gender makes us equal.

My pretty dress shirt compliments me. Does that make it equal to me?

Bees are important. Does that make them equal to you and me?

As for the biblical concept, it's made very clear that those who are saved are not equal to those who are not. Slavery is mentioned very thoroughly and guidelines are given to slavers and slaves (mind you, slavery in the Bible is different than the slavery we're familiar with from U.S. History). The Bible vividly advocates that men have primacy over women. It's very clear that equality does not exist; true, we do all have dominion over this world and we all have the opportunity to be saved (though, viewpoints on this vary; particularly among Calvinists), this does not mean we were created equal. This concept arrived from the Declaration of Independence.

But that article is another topic.

Before this thread gets locked.

I asked Anthony if I could post this before I did and he approved. There should be no reason this gets locked. Why should an opinion be censored anyway?

Have you ever looked at inner-city graduations? At least 80% of them are female. The boys tend to drop out young and often end up in prison. Yes, the graduation rate in theses places is less than 20% -- meaning most of the girls drop out too -- but it really shows who puts more focus on education.
No, that does not mean men are stupid blithering vegetables.

Source?

By the way, academia has nothing to do with intelligence. I've seen some of the brightest people drop out or get barely passing grades and I've seen some of the most grotesquely moronic people get nearly perfect grades.

Besides, when you account for affirmative action and the multitude of scholarships just for being a woman, it makes sense that women would have a higher graduation rate than men. Oh, and lets not forget the apparent gender ratio of women in the populace. More women = more graduations.

Then, there's this, of course:

http://amhist.ist.unomaha.edu/module_files/workforce%20by%20gender.JPG

Not to mention this:

http://www.iss.co.za/Pubs/ASR/8No3/Graph5.gif

It's starting to become very lucid, isn't it?

The reason you hear more of legendary male achievers than female is because the stereotype "men are superior to women" may have been more considered back in the past. However, this is 2009, things have changed and you'll find there are just as many intelligent and talented women as there are men.

Really? So, I suppose the inventions of women in the modern day rival that of men? If so, could you cite some of these inventions? Because I happen to have a list of inventions by women here (http://inventors.about.com/od/womeninventors/Women_Inventors.htm) and the lovely bit at the end speaks wonders:

American Women Inventors Go Public
In the modern era, women have had more difficulty gaining credit for their inventions, but that has not stopped them from inventing.

Translation: "We have done nothing of value as of late."

Not that the barbie doll is all that prestigious either, but I'll give credit where credit is due.

I've repped quite a few of you on the basis of formulating a logical argument even if I disagreed with you, but there are some of you I can't because of rep restrictions.

[Antares]

What?!
We're not equal because we're different?!
Oh. My. God.
People from differing cultures aren't the same and have different problems so do you extend your faulty logic on to those groups as well as women?

I don't quite believe my eyes - the people posting the absolute shite I've been reading in this thread can't honestly believe these things iin the 21st Century....

You know what, wow.

I will extend my "faulty" logic. The fact is people are different. They aren't equal. Are you in denial? Can you not see what is going on in the world? People are different. They aren't the same. So not equal.

Women are treated differently than men. Its a fact. Hence not equal.

Women are made up differently than men. Its a fact. Hence not equal.

The gender roles make us not equal. Can you not see that? Can you not open your stubborn eyes and see that?

[Silverfist64]

First of all, please cite sources if you're going to state statistics.

Try watching some Discovery Channel and National Geographic. I cant source a episode because each episode isnt going to have its own freaking website. Look, others can find just as many "statistics" as you that prove otherwise. Stop being biased and try to find other information proving you wrong. Have an open mind. And also find more information by other more trustful sites. You havent excactly cited where you found those graphs. Anyone can go and make a graph showing men are superior to women.

[Ripplemagne]

Try watching some Discovery Channel and National Geographic. I cant source a episode because each episode isnt going to have its own freaking website. Look, others can find just as many "statistics" as you that prove otherwise. Stop being biased and try to find other information proving you wrong. Have an open mind. And also find more information by other more trustful sites. You havent excactly cited where you found those graphs. Anyone can go and make a graph showing men are superior to women.

So, you expect me to thoroughly document my sources when you can't even cite yours. If you expect that statement to uphold as reasonable in a debate, you're sadly mistaken.

As for my sources, you can, easily, check the source through the Properties menu. So, your attempted refutation of my post is hollow.

As for me being the one who is close minded and biased? Why is that? Because I don't take the simple, popular view? Or is it because my view contrasts with yours? Or is it just because I say that the world isn't sunshine and rainbows and that scares you? Just because I have an opinion that is not popular, doesn't mean that it's not a well researched and impartially concluded.

If anything, it is you who is close minded because I just dissected every argument presented and you still insist that I'm wrong without stating anything outside the realm of stonewall arguments.

[Silverfist64]

Yes, but you insist you are right no matter what. Just because you have found a couple graphs showing.......well nothing that states men are better than women....doesnt mean your right. Ok, i respect you opinion but still, you could atleast try to show some respect to the "inferior" sex because guess what.....theyre still people and have their own opinions. So stop being closed-minded and selfish and start thinking how by going on here and stating "men are better than women" its going to effect others.

[Ripplemagne]

Yes, but you insist you are right no matter what.

No more than anyone else is. Here's a tip on life: Someone refuting your logic isn't above admitting when they're wrong. But they actually have to be wrong to admit it.

Just because you have found a couple graphs showing.......well nothing that states men are better than women....doesnt mean your right.

The graphs were meant to refute points against mine. They were not the collective argument, but rather, a piece to the puzzle.

Ok, i respect you opinion but still, you could atleast try to show some respect to the "inferior" sex because guess what.....theyre still people and have their own opinions. So stop being closed-minded and selfish and start thinking how by going on here and stating "men are better than women" its going to effect others.

Um... I made it very clear that I don't think women are useless and I made it clear that they are better than men at some things. What does them being people have to do with illustrating facts? Find me once where I used even one ad hominem. Because all I've done thus far is state facts and anecdotes.

I respect all of your opinions, which is why I've repped people who have disagreed with me like Calum. The difference being that he actually addressed the topic and did so without insults and pseudo-psychoanalysis of my character.

Where me being close minded or selfish comes from, I can't figure out, but it would seem to me that you're the one being close minded as you don't even consider that I may speak an inkling of truth. Instead, you just keep saying I'm this, that and the other thing.

[AllThatIsLeft]

Yes, but you insist you are right no matter what. Just because you have found a couple graphs showing.......well nothing that states men are better than women....doesnt mean your right. Ok, i respect you opinion but still, you could atleast try to show some respect to the "inferior" sex because guess what.....theyre still people and have their own opinions. So stop being closed-minded and selfish and start thinking how by going on here and stating "men are better than women" its going to effect others.

I dont believe he's insulted women.
He's just saying that men are better than woman, all shown through articulate sentences.

I am a woman, and i am not insulted. What he is saying, is merely his opinion.
There is no reason to get so touchy over it.

On topic.

Males and Females CANNOT be equal.
Men and Woman are different.

(the following does not apply to all males, or females... it's just a general view)

Men is stereotyped to be the strong gender, yet to cry is a form of weakness. I've seen most of the strongest men I know cry, and to be honest i been inspired that they let down such guard to show some emotion, as usually men try to hide.

Woman, considered the weak gender, express more emotion and are not afraid to do so.
At the same time, i've seen the most emotional of women break through that and done the strongest actions.

A mother will sacrifice ANYTHING and EVERTYHING for their children, and keep on doing it. and in comparison, i've seen man get crushed on a first try.

Crumpled egos, and no hope of recuperating.

Woman in general are more persistent than man. That's not to say that all women do as such, or that all men crumple on a first try.

This is merely an opinion, from my own perception.

I dont think that Males and Females are equal. and I think that neither or is superior to the other.

[Silverfist64]

I dont believe he's insulted women.
He's just saying that men are better than woman, all shown through articulate sentences.

I am a woman, and i am not insulted. What he is saying, is merely his opinion.
There is no reason to get so touchy over it.

I have apologized to him. I just got out of control. Sorry for the posts.

[Ripplemagne]

Paula,

I cry and I'm not afraid to admit it. That's more of a societal trend that I do not agree with by any means.

As for persistence, does it not take persistence to charge enemy combatants in war and fight through exhaustion, hunger and fear? I think it does.

[Rutherford The Brave]

I'm rather quiet on this issue, not because I need to feel superior and I'm all for it but because there never will be a point were both genders are equal. I was raised to treat women like goddesses and thats how I act, but I never try to act better than them. Yet, I have been taken advantage of by some girls and i dont really appreciate it. Its just the way things are, one can never be better. And I quote "No one will ever win the battle of the sexes, there is too much frantinizing with the enemy."

[AllThatIsLeft]

Paula,

I cry and I'm not afraid to admit it. That's more of a societal trend that I do not agree with by any means.

As for persistence, does it not take persistence to charge enemy combatants in war and fight through exhaustion, hunger and fear? I think it does.

I see your point.
Then again, it takes a certain type of character to do that.
and not ALL man are made to do as such.
and many man give up within hours of it.
Some go crazy, and some are just to scared to do it.

Like i said, my point doesn't apply to all man.

[Ripplemagne]

I see your point.
Then again, it takes a certain type of character to do that.
and not ALL man are made to do as such.
and many man give up within hours of it.
Some go crazy, and some are just to scared to do it.

Like i said, my point doesn't apply to all man.

Very true. The same can be said about women, however, in regards to the parenting.

[AllThatIsLeft]

Of course. God, i've seem mother do awful things to their children.
It's unreal and extremely disturbing to think a mother could do such things.

[Sapphire]

Paula, a quick question. If men and women aren't equal, yet neither is superior to the other, what are they?

Ripp, this site discusses the reactions to women who have been raped and how many of it is based on sexist attitudes http://www.justicewomen.com/help_special_rape.html#two
This article supports the content on that site too http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/columnists/article4726132.ece

Which "more valuable things" are men better at than women? How are you defining things as more or less valuable?

The bit about the population of males and females came from a UN source in 2008 and was in response to your claim that men win against women quantitatively. Since women out number men it is surely the women who win quantitatively.

This article http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/01/050121100142.htm contains the oh-so important nugget of information that although there are differences in how the brain of the two sexes has developed they are designed for and result in "equally intelligent behavior".
The grey matter is where localised function is carried out. Mathematics is a skill that the grey matter is responsible for.
White matter is the network of neurons and cells that allow for communication between different parts of grey matter. So, when you have to integrate two or more ideas/strategies your white matter is being put to work.
This means that basically men are more apt for things like maths while women are more apt for integrating ideas etc.
Your attempt to give a sexist spin on something is horrific and an insult to the authors of the study.

You know what, wow.

I will extend my "faulty" logic. The fact is people are different. They aren't equal. Are you in denial? Can you not see what is going on in the world? People are different. They aren't the same. So not equal.

Women are treated differently than men. Its a fact. Hence not equal.

Women are made up differently than men. Its a fact. Hence not equal.

The gender roles make us not equal. Can you not see that? Can you not open your stubborn eyes and see that?I know people are different. But differences do not equate to a hierarchy of superior and inferior people.

How bloody bigoted are you if you can't see that no human life is more valuable than any other regardless of sex, race, age etc?!?

Your faulty logic does nothing but spread prejudice and discrimination.
I mean look at the Holocaust. Groups of people were singled out because they deviated from the image that the Nazis held and were labelled as being inferior.
The slave trade revolved around the same faulty logic which stated that blacks weren't worth as much as whites because they had different coloured skin.

I am not in denial. I see the way that women are treated unequally and how some people in this thread have spoken as if we are indeed inferior to them simply because we do not have a penis. It sickens me.
But the way in which someone is treated does not dictate their worth as a human being.

People do not have to be carbon copies of each other to be deemed equal. We are all equally deserving of peace, happiness and safety. We are all equally deserving of life. Differences between us don't affect this.

The fact that sexism is still prominent in society illustrates the unequal way we are treated - not that we are "lesser" human beings.

This sickening display of prejudice and discrimination from a member of staff is atrocious.

[AllThatIsLeft]

Paula, a quick question. If men and women aren't equal, yet neither is superior to the other, what are they?

Different. Obviously. You can not call us equal. I am by no means equal to any men.
Does that make me better than them? Absolutely not.
Does that make them better than me? Absolutely not.

You are taking this from an extremist humanitarian point of view.
No one said that woman don't deserve to be called human, or that we dont have a soul.
And you who are so forth freedom of speech, people here are merely expressing their opinion, and you are stubbornly refusing to accept that.


This sickening display of prejudice and discrimination from a member of staff is atrocious.

What? because he is a staff member, he doesn't deserve an opinion?
I agree on many point he said.

[Rutherford The Brave]

We have to be honest though, I mean men shouldnt be superior because without women their would be no future and no men. Its a simple as that we cannot bud like plants or asexually reproduce. Its simple women play a very important role, they give us the ability to survive as a species.

[Death]

Why do some peiple believe that different sexes should have different rights? All that makes people think that one is superior is narrow-mindedness since they both have their own roles and are equally important; one cannot survive without the other.

[Antares]

I know people are different. But differences do not equate to a hierarchy of superior and inferior people.

How bloody bigoted are you if you can't see that no human life is more valuable than any other regardless of sex, race, age etc?!?

Your faulty logic does nothing but spread prejudice and discrimination.
I mean look at the Holocaust. Groups of people were singled out because they deviated from the image that the Nazis held and were labelled as being inferior.
The slave trade revolved around the same faulty logic which stated that blacks weren't worth as much as whites because they had different coloured skin.

I am not in denial. I see the way that women are treated unequally and how some people in this thread have spoken as if we are indeed inferior to them simply because we do not have a penis. It sickens me.
But the way in which someone is treated does not dictate their worth as a human being.

People do not have to be carbon copies of each other to be deemed equal. We are all equally deserving of peace, happiness and safety. We are all equally deserving of life. Differences between us don't affect this.

The fact that sexism is still prominent in society illustrates the unequal way we are treated - not that we are "lesser" human beings.

This sickening display of prejudice and discrimination from a member of staff is atrocious.

You, as a 20 year old and a member of these forums for like 4 years should be ashamed of yourself for jumping to conclusions and attacking people's opinions.

I never said that some people are "better" than other people. I simply said that people were different, and that they were not equal in the sense that we are treated differently and go through different things because of the gender roles that we are born with, etc. I however did not say that I approve of this. I don't know why you are insinuating I did...because I didn't. I think that it's sad that we can't be all on the same level, treated the same etc. I do recognize though that we will be treated differently and I agree about it in some ways.

What are those ways? I believe that women need to be treated with the upmost respect. I am a bit old fashioned. I think that men should get up when they get up, open the door for them, fight for them, etc. Would I do that for a guy? No. Some women don't want this "treatment" and I respect their opinions.

Once again, I am not sure where you got this from but I never said or meant to intend that one human life is more valuable than other because sex, race, age, etc. So please don't.

I do think you really really missed my point though. I think that people are different and not equal in that sense. I am not a chauvinist in any way. I do not like the fact that people are treated differently for many things but I can see that it does happen and I accept that. Do I want to change it? Yes. So yea, I think you missed my point. I am not some mean sexist person as you seem to think I am (I am assuming).

My opinion is my opinion, regardless if I am a moderator. You of all people should know that since you were in fact a moderator. Being a moderator however has nothing to do with me posting in this forum as I have so far. So please just leave my moderator status out of it because it doesn't belong. Thanks.

[Ripplemagne]

Love ya too, Death baby.

Ripp, this site discusses the reactions to women who have been raped and how many of it is based on sexist attitudes http://www.justicewomen.com/help_special_rape.html#two
This article supports the content on that site too http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle4726132.ece

So...? Some sexists rape women. Does that make all sexists rapists? Some cubicle workers murder people. Does that make all cubicle workers murderers? You're attempting to state that I will rape a woman because I'm sexist.

But what you fail to realize is that there are different viewpoints in everything. I've already made my views on women and how men should treat them quite clear, so you can take your school cafeteria logic and spout it elsewhere.

Which "more valuable things" are men better at than women? How are you defining things as more or less valuable?

Does it even pay for me to note them? Your response is just going to be "LOL DAS JUS UR OPINION" when I make the comparison, even in spite of the obvious scaling.

The bit about the population of males and females came from a UN source in 2008 and was in response to your claim that men win against women quantitatively. Since women out number men it is surely the women who win quantitatively.

When I said they have the quantitative advantage, I meant in terms of how many things they are superior at. Not population. That wouldn't fit in with the debate at all.

And could you link me to this source, so I can review it for myself?


This article http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0121100142.htm contains the oh-so important nugget of information that although there are differences in how the brain of the two sexes has developed they are designed for and result in "equally intelligent behavior".

Are you rushing to respond to me or are you just ignoring what I say?:

Even though this article and this article, try not to offend anyone by pretending they are equal, they are certainly not. According to studies, males have a greater supply of gray matter in their brains, while women have a greater supply of white matter.

I acknowledged that they said it was equal. But in the face of a sensitive media where political correctness is a must, it's necessary that they say that. Please don't ignore what I say in an attempt to skirt to points that you feel fuel your argument.

The grey matter is where localised function is carried out. Mathematics is a skill that the grey matter is responsible for.
White matter is the network of neurons and cells that allow for communication between different parts of grey matter. So, when you have to integrate two or more ideas/strategies your white matter is being put to work.
This means that basically men are more apt for things like maths while women are more apt for integrating ideas etc.
Your attempt to give a sexist spin on something is horrific and an insult to the authors of the study.

Of course, it is. Anything sexist is automatically the devil and should be burned at the stake. While we're at it, why don't we get rid of that pesky, sexist affirmative action? Oh, but that's a different kind of sexism, Ripplemagne! That helps people! You're mean and are trying to put people down!

There is no spin. It is what it is and I am, simply, explaining what it is. Just because you have an inferiority complex and can't bear the fact that a social group trumps yours does not change what is.

Basically, what you're saying the difference between men and women are are that men know what they're talking about and women are more apt to write emo blogs about how life sucks, men are stupid and how everyone should pity their poor, miserable, unfortunate lives.

I rest my case.

Your faulty logic does nothing but spread prejudice and discrimination.
I mean look at the Holocaust. Groups of people were singled out because they deviated from the image that the Nazis held and were labelled as being inferior.
The slave trade revolved around the same faulty logic which stated that blacks weren't worth as much as whites because they had different coloured skin.

Wow. I'm not going to get into the historical inanities of this, here, quote, but, if we're going by the logic that all practitioners of a viewpoint hold the same philosophy of its extremists, I might as well label you as a separatist, male-hating, liberal dyke. Do you see what you're doing here? You are profiling and generalizing that because I am sexist, I must automatically hate women or that my viewpoints will lead to their persecution, but have I not pointed out that I think they deserve equal rights in spite of the fact that they do not have equal skill?

I am not in denial. I see the way that women are treated unequally and how some people in this thread have spoken as if we are indeed inferior to them simply because we do not have a penis. It sickens me.

No one said anything about the genitals. Got something on the mind, do ya? :o

Female Hyenas are superior to male Hyenas. Does that make male Hyenas useless? Of course not. It doesn't make it sickening to acknowledge a fact.

People do not have to be carbon copies of each other to be deemed equal. We are all equally deserving of peace, happiness and safety. We are all equally deserving of life. Differences between us don't affect this.

And no one said that women don't deserve equal rights. You're making an assumption based on your close minded, feminazi rage.

[Death]

You, as a 20 year old and a member of these forums for like 4 years should be ashamed of yourself for jumping to conclusions and attacking people's opinions.

I never said that some people are "better" than other people. I simply said that people were different, and that they were not equal in the sense that we are treated differently and go through different things because of the gender roles that we are born with, etc. I however did not say that I approve of this. I don't know why you are insinuating I did...because I didn't. I think that it's sad that we can't be all on the same level, treated the same etc. I do recognize though that we will be treated differently and I agree about it in some ways.

What are those ways? I believe that women need to be treated with the upmost respect. I am a bit old fashioned. I think that men should get up when they get up, open the door for them, fight for them, etc. Would I do that for a guy? No. Some women don't want this "treatment" and I respect their opinions.

Once again, I am not sure where you got this from but I never said or meant to intend that one human life is more valuable than other because sex, race, age, etc. So please don't.

I do think you really really missed my point though. I think that people are different and not equal in that sense. I am not a chauvinist in any way. I do not like the fact that people are treated differently for many things but I can see that it does happen and I accept that. Do I want to change it? Yes. So yea, I think you missed my point. I am not some mean sexist person as you seem to think I am (I am assuming).

My opinion is my opinion, regardless if I am a moderator. You of all people should know that since you were in fact a moderator. Being a moderator however has nothing to do with me posting in this forum as I have so far. So please just leave my moderator status out of it because it doesn't belong. Thanks.

That's strange, because when I read your post, I was shocked at a moderator's words too - especial how you said that we were all in denial and stubborn for believing that sexes should be treated equally and that one should not be viewed as superior or inferior to another. I can also say that I'm shocked at what I've just quoted. Just saying.

[AllThatIsLeft]

That's strange, because when I read your post, I was shocked at a moderator's words too - especial how you said that we were all in denial and stubborn for believing that sexes should be treated equally and that one should not be viewed as superior or inferior to another. I can also say that I'm shocked at what I've just quoted. Just saying.

I dont see anything wrong with his post.
and you are not making any valid points by what you just said. Just saying.

[Antares]

That's strange, because when I read your post, I was shocked at a moderator's words too - especial how you said that we were all in denial and stubborn for believing that sexes should be treated equally and that one should not be viewed as superior or inferior to another. I can also say that I'm shocked at what I've just quoted. Just saying.

Oh my god. Why is everyone stuck on the fact that I am a moderator!?

Seriously, get off your high horse and drop the moderator thing. Address me as a normal member.

Seriously, if you aren't mature enough to look past the green name, then you shouldn't be in this forum or something.

Address me as a person. Not a moderator. Being a moderator has NOTHING to do with my opinion nor my posts.



Now, back to the topic. You need to realize that men, and women, are NOT equal. Meaning they are different. In some situations they should not be treated the same. For instance, if there was a pregnant woman in a burning building and a man in a burning building, then who would you save? Hopefully the woman...That is an example of one way we should be treated differently. An example of when we shouldnt? One man and one woman are both equally capable yet the woman more qualified to do a certain job. Who would you choose? Hopefully the woman, but I hope someone wouldn't do the opposite.

[MoveAlong]

Oh my god. Why is everyone stuck on the fact that I am a moderator!?

Seriously, get off your high horse and drop the moderator thing. Address me as a normal member.

Seriously, if you aren't mature enough to look past the green name, then you shouldn't be in this forum or something.

Address me as a person. Not a moderator. Being a moderator has NOTHING to do with my opinion nor my posts.

Are people really descriminating against your opinion because you're a moderator?
Lame. Very very lame.

I never said that men and women were equal. I said that men are not better than women. I didn't say that women were better than men, either.

"better" implies higher quality. No. If there were the case, women would be involved in more crimes than men. Crimes are bad, mmk?

It takes both in this world, so why have a debate about who's better? It's not like we're going to say "oh, men are better than women, let's get rid of them".
Even if you do prove a point of who's better, why does it matter?

[Bougainvillea]

Mars, I think he was shocked or whatever because he sees you as a high authority. 8 /

[Rutherford The Brave]

One thing that will never happen in this situation is a conclusion and the state of equality. Men some how are always paid more, expected to do more of the manual labour jobs, which in fact women can do. They are genetically built to be bigger and stronger, so they use that as more an upper hand. Women on the other hand, give birth, are paid less, and it was until a while did the gain the ability to vote. The two sexes just are not equal, not just because women have vaginas and men have penisis. But because for years before universal sufferage women had no choice, and mostly because these days they seen as unable to do the things that men can. I mean how many garbage ladies do you see? Septic tank specialists? Fishermen? Those jobs are just not the kind of things you'd see women doing, but again, how many male gynecologists do you see, not that many. Nurses? I mean there are male nurses but most of them are females. It all comes down to the whole job situation and in that we are not the same. In society there are just somethings that are expected of the man and the same goes of for the women, its just set like that and it will be awfully hard to change.

[Antares]

Mars, I think he was shocked or whatever because he sees you as a high authority. 8 /

Well i'm not high authority.

I am a normal person.

All I do is make people follow the rules...there is a human beyond the face.

[Bougainvillea]

I understand.
You should tell him that.

[Antares]

I understand.
You should tell him that.

Thanks for understanding :P

(back on topic)

[INFERNO]

The fact remains, however, that they were in that position to begin with and only came out of it due to political and male influence. There would be no women suffrage or rights if men collectively agreed that they should not have any.

That may be very true, however, since women were allowed to be more in the work force, have the same/approx. the same rights, etc..., they have become a substantially large group in the workforce. They may not be greater in quantity than the males, however, they are moving up pretty fast.

However, women too did fight for their rights, they didn't just sit back to it.

equal rights is not mutually inclusive with equal skill.

This I have to say I do agree with.


It was just an introduction.

Fair enough.

I'm saying that the media and our cultural values that dupe us into believing into absolute egalitarianism affects our views on this.

Fair enough, I wasn't thinking straight at the time when I wrote it.

Yes, but you insist you are right no matter what.

Isn't that how a debate works? The debating parties believe they're right and try to provide arguments to convince the other parties. It wouldn't be much of a debate if the parties all began agreeing with each other right off the bat, now would it?


Ok, i respect you opinion but still, you could atleast try to show some respect to the "inferior" sex because guess what.....theyre still people and have their own opinions. So stop being closed-minded and selfish and start thinking how by going on here and stating "men are better than women" its going to effect others.

We must be talking about two completely different people then. Ripplemagne has shown respect to both genders and from what I can tell, not only does he provide damn good arguments, he also shows a decent amount of open-mindedness.

Here is a nice quote by Ripplemagne:

Now, I'm not under the impression that women should not have rights. I believe everyone should enjoy the same rights. However, equal rights is not mutually inclusive with equal skill.


I never said that some people are "better" than other people. I simply said that people were different, and that they were not equal in the sense that we are treated differently and go through different things because of the gender roles that we are born with, etc. I however did not say that I approve of this. I don't know why you are insinuating I did...because I didn't. I think that it's sad that we can't be all on the same level, treated the same etc. I do recognize though that we will be treated differently and I agree about it in some ways.

What are those ways? I believe that women need to be treated with the upmost respect. I am a bit old fashioned. I think that men should get up when they get up, open the door for them, fight for them, etc. Would I do that for a guy? No. Some women don't want this "treatment" and I respect their opinions.

Once again, I am not sure where you got this from but I never said or meant to intend that one human life is more valuable than other because sex, race, age, etc. So please don't.

I do think you really really missed my point though. I think that people are different and not equal in that sense. I am not a chauvinist in any way. I do not like the fact that people are treated differently for many things but I can see that it does happen and I accept that. Do I want to change it? Yes. So yea, I think you missed my point. I am not some mean sexist person as you seem to think I am (I am assuming).


Maybe it's just me but I'm confused on your post. You mentioned in the beginning and end of your post that you don't like the fact that women are treated differently. In fact, you even say you would want to change that. That part I don't have confusion over but the confusion begins when you state your views on how men should protect women (implying women shouldn't protect men as much) and how you would not do that for a man. So now I'm confused because you don't seem to want to change your views yet you want to change the fact that men and women are treated differently.

[Antares]

Maybe it's just me but I'm confused on your post. You mentioned in the beginning and end of your post that you don't like the fact that women are treated differently. In fact, you even say you would want to change that. That part I don't have confusion over but the confusion begins when you state your views on how men should protect women (implying women shouldn't protect men as much) and how you would not do that for a man. So now I'm confused because you don't seem to want to change your views yet you want to change the fact that men and women are treated differently.

I thought I made it clear that there is a difference.
In some aspects they should be treated differently, some they should be treated the same.

[marty]

well we obviously are better than women.
guess which gender has cooties?
women.
case closed.

[Ripplemagne]

That may be very true, however, since women were allowed to be more in the work force, have the same/approx. the same rights, etc..., they have become a substantially large group in the workforce. They may not be greater in quantity than the males, however, they are moving up pretty fast.

However, women too did fight for their rights, they didn't just sit back to it.

You make a valid point, however, I'd have to say that with all of the social programs and acclimation made for women, the growth period is over. Honestly, it only really takes one generation to take a step up.

Fair enough, I wasn't thinking straight at the time when I wrote it.

Haha. I hate when that happens. XD

Thank you, Inferno.

[boy.on.laptop]

Why is that? Because the feminist agenda is sensitive about it? Believe it or not, someone can be sexist without being abusive to women. In fact, by conservative standards of gender, a sexist will treat a woman better than his pussy whipped counterpart. And why is that? Because a conservative view of women states that men are the woman's protector.

The only wimmenz that would give up association with me over my viewpoints on gender are the stuck up, pinko liberal ones that I wouldn't want to come in contact with anyway.

I disagree there are a lot of women with conservative values in almost everything but believe in equality. Your perception against liberalism and your comment that you would not associate with these people suggests your reasons for this pig-headed arrogant closed minded opinon to women and liberalism. Equality in modern times involves intelligence, not physcial strength. Think of the most successful people in this world(including some major women): Bill Gates, Helen Clark, Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin(shock horror, a conservative women politican!) all of these people have used their intelligence, political prowleness and business sense ie. all proccess involving the mind to get to the top. In this modern world, brains will always win over braun.

[Ripplemagne]

We still going on with words like "pig headed" and "close minded"? Being that no one else has been able to justify these statements, how about you be the spokesman for why these hollow insults apply to me and why they're necessary in a debate.

As for my statement in regards to "stuck up, pinko liberal" women, you, obviously, missed the point. My guess is that you're about sixteen and think arguing semantics is a replacement for addressing the topic at hand. Surprise, surprise: It's not.

First of all, your parenthesis in regards to Sarah Palin makes absolutely no sense because I never said that a woman could not or should not be a politician. You seem to be under the impression that the word "inferior" means "useless". Muhammad Ali was superior to George Foreman; that doesn't mean that George Foreman wasn't a great fighter in his own right.

But the two above names refute your entire logic because they earned international renown through "braun" (sic). Though, one may argue that Muhammad Ali used his brains in the ring, it's irrelevant. I will concur that the mind is more valuable, but the elements of body, spirit, visage and charisma all hold their places in our society as well.

Honestly, I shouldn't have even responded to your snarky attitude toward a viewpoint that contrasts with yours, but school is in session.

[Bobby]

Don't make this personal. Stay on the debate.

[INFERNO]

I thought I made it clear that there is a difference.

Difference between?


In some aspects they should be treated differently, some they should be treated the same.

The problem still remains that you say they are treated differently, you admit to treating them differently, you want them to be treated the same at certain instances yet overall you want them treated the same. Hence, we still arrive at the same issue as the one I mentioned in my last post to you.

You make a valid point, however, I'd have to say that with all of the social programs and acclimation made for women, the growth period is over.

Really? I found a rather nice and straight-to-the-point study of the University of Michigan's professors CLICKIE HERE (http://www.provost.umich.edu/reports/U-M_Gender_Salary_Study.pdf). It used data from 1999 of the faculty members of various ranks to predict the salaries of them and is conducted in 2001. IThe summary can be seen on Table 1 in the PDF. There is a clear difference not only in the salaries earned but also in the amount of males and females in each job.

The point of this study is to show that the growth period is not over. If you read the rest of the study, you can see how the salary difference has widened and how although there are many men and many women faulty members, the amount of men dominate still. There is much room for growth, as referring back to page 8, table 1, 59% of males are full profs. whereas only 29% (i.e. 30% less) of females are full profs. The actual amount for all the faculty members at UM is 51%. This room and period of growth is evidenced further by the salary differences, even when there are more female assistant and associate professors than men, the females earn several thousands of dollars less than males.

On page 5, it shows that women have a 3.3% pay disadvantage when rank and time are not controlled for (i.e. real-life). Women do still have a time to grow.


Honestly, it only really takes one generation to take a step up.

True, however, it takes many to reach even close to equal earnings and equal amounts in the job force for a job that can be performed just as easily be males and females. Refer back to the UM study because being a professor has really no need to be a certain gender.


Haha. I hate when that happens. XD

As do I.

[ShatteredWings]

Name something a man can do that a woman is physically incapable of doing
Not something men do "better". Something that is impossiable to do if you're female.

[Sapphire]

Different. Obviously. You can not call us equal. I am by no means equal to any men.
Does that make me better than them? Absolutely not.
Does that make them better than me? Absolutely not.On the issue of equality there are only two options: equal or unequal. Being different doesn't come into it because no two people are the same.

You are taking this from an extremist humanitarian point of view.
No one said that woman don't deserve to be called human, or that we dont have a soul.
And you who are so forth freedom of speech, people here are merely expressing their opinion, and you are stubbornly refusing to accept that.I'm not saying that anyone is labelling us as not being human or not having a soul. I've also never said that people can't have their opinions. I've been vocal in my opposition to their viewpoints but I've not tried to restrict their freedom of speech.
I've pointed out how some of the viewpoints expressed are sexist and that by replacing "men" with "white people" and "women" with "black people" you are left with the rationale behind the slave trade.

We have to be honest though, I mean men shouldnt be superior because without women their would be no future and no men. Its a simple as that we cannot bud like plants or asexually reproduce. Its simple women play a very important role, they give us the ability to survive as a species.
QFT
You, as a 20 year old and a member of these forums for like 4 years should be ashamed of yourself for jumping to conclusions and attacking people's opinions.I'm not jumping to conclusions. Your previous posts that have been directed at me have contained very bigoted comments and I was replying to these posts.
I've not attacked you for your opinion, I've challenged your opinion and the logic behind it.

I never said that some people are "better" than other people. I simply said that people were different, and that they were not equal in the sense that we are treated differently and go through different things because of the gender roles that we are born with, etc. I however did not say that I approve of this. I don't know why you are insinuating I did...because I didn't. I think that it's sad that we can't be all on the same level, treated the same etc. I do recognize though that we will be treated differently and I agree about it in some ways.

What are those ways? I believe that women need to be treated with the upmost respect. I am a bit old fashioned. I think that men should get up when they get up, open the door for them, fight for them, etc. Would I do that for a guy? No. Some women don't want this "treatment" and I respect their opinions.These two paragraphs are conflicting. You say that you are saddened by the continued existence of inequalities in how the two sexes are treated. But then say that you believe women should be treated differently. Which is it? Do you think they should be treated the same as men or not? What is your reasoning behind that?

Once again, I am not sure where you got this from but I never said or meant to intend that one human life is more valuable than other because sex, race, age, etc. So please don't.Then what was this statement portraying? Well you're not really equal as human beings...you're differentIf that doesn't say that men are of more value than human beings, what does?

I do think you really really missed my point though. I think that people are different and not equal in that sense. I am not a chauvinist in any way. I do not like the fact that people are treated differently for many things but I can see that it does happen and I accept that. Do I want to change it? Yes. So yea, I think you missed my point. I am not some mean sexist person as you seem to think I am (I am assuming).I like how you resorted to calling me stubborn, blind and in denial before actually explaining where you were coming from reasonably...

Want to change the inequality in the treatment of women? Change your own attitudes. That is the first step.
You hold sexist attitudes therefore you are sexist. To argue otherwise is akin to saying "I stand by the use of Popperism but that doesn't make me a Popperist" or "I use Marx's logic but that doesn't make me a Marxist".

My opinion is my opinion, regardless if I am a moderator. You of all people should know that since you were in fact a moderator. Being a moderator however has nothing to do with me posting in this forum as I have so far. So please just leave my moderator status out of it because it doesn't belong. Thanks.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. I know that members of staff are normal people but I also know that they have an enhanced responsibility to not alienate members of the forum but that is exactly what posts like yours in this thread do. I was shocked.
If you don't like people seeing you as a member of staff everytime you post then why are you one? So...? Some sexists rape women. Does that make all sexists rapists? Some cubicle workers murder people. Does that make all cubicle workers murderers? You're attempting to state that I will rape a woman because I'm sexist.I never said that. I was talking about sexist attitudes and how they add to the pain that rape victims go through. They have to struggle with the pain caused by the attack and then they have to fight against sexist attitudes held by the people around them. You should have taken a cursory look at the articles I gave as you would have clearly seen that.

Does it even pay for me to note them? Your response is just going to be "LOL DAS JUS UR OPINION" when I make the comparison, even in spite of the obvious scaling.First of all, you have no idea if that's how I'd react. Secondly, it does pay to note them seeing as they are important to your argument.

When I said they have the quantitative advantage, I meant in terms of how many things they are superior at. Not population. That wouldn't fit in with the debate at all.

And could you link me to this source, so I can review it for myself?If it doesn't fit with what you are saying then it isn't relevant and I don't have to scour the internet looking for it a second time.

I acknowledged that they said it was equal. But in the face of a sensitive media where political correctness is a must, it's necessary that they say that. Please don't ignore what I say in an attempt to skirt to points that you feel fuel your argument.

Of course, it is. Anything sexist is automatically the devil and should be burned at the stake. While we're at it, why don't we get rid of that pesky, sexist affirmative action? Oh, but that's a different kind of sexism, Ripplemagne! That helps people! You're mean and are trying to put people down!

There is no spin. It is what it is and I am, simply, explaining what it is. Just because you have an inferiority complex and can't bear the fact that a social group trumps yours does not change what is.Scientific researchers do not lie about their findings and conclusions. To accuse them of doing so because of political correctness is completely inaccurate and highlights how little you actually know about the subject.

Yes, you are spinning it. You are taking something valid and respected and twisting it into something inaccurate and unscientific.

Basically, what you're saying the difference between men and women are are that men know what they're talking about and women are more apt to write emo blogs about how life sucks, men are stupid and how everyone should pity their poor, miserable, unfortunate lives.This is a prime example of my previous sentence. You have taken the scientific finding that men are better at things like maths because of their larger amounts of grey matter and women are better at things like writing because of their larger amounts of white matter and twisted it to fit in with your messed up logic.

Wow. I'm not going to get into the historical inanities of this, here, quote, but, if we're going by the logic that all practitioners of a viewpoint hold the same philosophy of its extremists, I might as well label you as a separatist, male-hating, liberal dyke. Do you see what you're doing here? You are profiling and generalizing that because I am sexist, I must automatically hate women or that my viewpoints will lead to their persecution, but have I not pointed out that I think they deserve equal rights in spite of the fact that they do not have equal skill?That wasn't aimed at you so why are you taking it as if it was?

And no one said that women don't deserve equal rights. You're making an assumption based on your close minded, feminazi rage.Nazi?! You are such a twisted and ugly fuck. Don't you bloody dare use that word towards me like that ever again.

You need to realize that men, and women, are NOT equal. Meaning they are different.Being different has NOTHING to do with equality.
All men are different from each other but does that make them unequal as humans? No.
All women are different but does that make them unequal? No.
All black people are different but does that make them unequal? No.
No two people are the same and as such to say that people aren't equal because they are different is not only incorrect but also blind.

In some situations they should not be treated the same. For instance, if there was a pregnant woman in a burning building and a man in a burning building, then who would you save? Hopefully the woman...That is an example of one way we should be treated differently.That is an example of when the woman is more vulnerable due to being pregnant. Put an elderly man and a 25 year old woman into that situation and clearly the elderly man is the one that needs help the most. Vulnerability isn't dictated by gender.

EDIT
I'm not going to be posting in or reading this thread again.
If, for whatever reason, you have the uncontrollable need to reply to something I have said then pm me.

[Ripplemagne]

Really? I found a rather nice and straight-to-the-point study of the University of Michigan's professors CLICKIE HERE. It used data from 1999 of the faculty members of various ranks to predict the salaries of them and is conducted in 2001. IThe summary can be seen on Table 1 in the PDF. There is a clear difference not only in the salaries earned but also in the amount of males and females in each job.

The point of this study is to show that the growth period is not over. If you read the rest of the study, you can see how the salary difference has widened and how although there are many men and many women faulty members, the amount of men dominate still. There is much room for growth, as referring back to page 8, table 1, 59% of males are full profs. whereas only 29% (i.e. 30% less) of females are full profs. The actual amount for all the faculty members at UM is 51%. This room and period of growth is evidenced further by the salary differences, even when there are more female assistant and associate professors than men, the females earn several thousands of dollars less than males.

On page 5, it shows that women have a 3.3% pay disadvantage when rank and time are not controlled for (i.e. real-life). Women do still have a time to grow.

That's from 2001. In the seven subsequent years, there's been an inverse.

Women earn more than men in big cities? (http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0334472920070803)
Covered by the New York Times. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregion/03women.html)
Elaboration on pay gap. (http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/12/women-wage-gap-cx_wf_0512earningmore.html)
39 jobs where women make more than men. (http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/28/commentary/everyday/sahadi_paytable/index.htm)
An article about the pay gap. (http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/career/20050307a1.asp)
More. (http://management.about.com/od/womenminorities/a/MenEarnMore2005.htm)

Case and point? Women can not only play on equal grounds, but surpass male salary. Different factors come into play, but I believe it's safe to say that the growth period is over.

Though, I definitely commend the research. Well done. <3

Name something a man can do that a woman is physically incapable of doing
Not something men do "better". Something that is impossiable to do if you're female.

I would, but my argument was never that women were useless. Stay on topic.

I never said that. I was talking about sexist attitudes and how they add to the pain that rape victims go through. They have to struggle with the pain caused by the attack and then they have to fight against sexist attitudes held by the people around them. You should have taken a cursory look at the articles I gave as you would have clearly seen that.

It was well implied. And sexist attitudes don't perpetuate suffering; insensitivity does. The two are not mutually inclusive.

First of all, you have no idea if that's how I'd react. Secondly, it does pay to note them seeing as they are important to your argument.

Alright. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and list three things and you can respond to them.

1. Physical dominance on almost every plane.
2. The aforementioned cerebral aspects.
3. Thinking impartially as women are more emotional and men are more logical.

Scientific researchers do not lie about their findings and conclusions. To accuse them of doing so because of political correctness is completely inaccurate and highlights how little you actually know about the subject.

Yes, you are spinning it. You are taking something valid and respected and twisting it into something inaccurate and unscientific.

http://blender-archi.tuxfamily.org/images/HortonStonewall1.jpg

It's amusing how you accuse me of knowing little on the subject when you're so apt to believe every interpretation of data that you read. If you, honestly, think that scientific feedback isn't swayed by opinion and what is popular, then you shouldn't even be in the debate forum.

You seem to imply that my views are somehow convoluted because they don't match with the interpretation of other analysts. Yet you don't trump the actual logic and instead, go on about how I'm bad and evil and stupid.

If it doesn't fit with what you are saying then it isn't relevant and I don't have to scour the internet looking for it a second time.

http://blender-archi.tuxfamily.org/images/HortonStonewall1.jpg

This is a prime example of my previous sentence. You have taken the scientific finding that men are better at things like maths because of their larger amounts of grey matter and women are better at things like writing because of their larger amounts of white matter and twisted it to fit in with your messed up logic.

How about this? If my logic is so messed up, explain how it's messed up instead of saying it. You can call someone names until the cows come home, but if you can't explain why they fit the criteria, then you're just blowing hot air.

That wasn't aimed at you so why are you taking it as if it was?

Does it have to be? This thread wasn't aimed at you, yet you're debating it anyway. Something doesn't have to be directed at you to respond to it.

Nazi?! You are such a twisted and ugly fuck. Don't you bloody dare use that word towards me like that ever again.

Nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi, nazi.

Shining example of debating through emotion instead of logic.

[email protected] irony of calling me ugly.

EDIT
I'm not going to be posting in or reading this thread again.
If, for whatever reason, you have the uncontrollable need to reply to something I have said then pm me.

I'll take that as an admission of defeat. Though, it'd have been better if you bowed out with grace. I'm quite happy you're tapping out though; you have a way of turning a legitimate debate into an emotional, tampon-raging slug fest. Though, you were anecdotal evidence for my entire argument and for that, I thank you. <3

[Bougainvillea]

This thread is really intense. :yawn:

[Rutherford The Brave]

I'll take that as an admission of defeat. Though, it'd have been better if you bowed out with grace. I'm quite happy you're tapping out though; you have a way of turning a legitimate debate into an emotional, tampon-raging slug fest. Though, you were anecdotal evidence for my entire argument and for that, I thank you. <3

A great arguement, untill this. I respect it ripple, but we can fight this to the end. The probability to an end of this conflict is well, small at best.

[Ripplemagne]

Hi, Carole. I know you're reading this still. <3

A great arguement, untill this. I respect it ripple, but we can fight this to the end. The probability to an end of this conflict is well, small at best.

Not true. This thread has a climax that I haven't elucidated upon yet. Only the close minded people who aren't willing to discuss a topic and feel the need to rage instead of talk won't reach a conclusion. If you notice, Inferno and I are having no problem talking. Neither are me and Paula. In fact, the majority of the posters here know how to conduct themselves. It's only when someone can't control their emotions that a debate/discussion goes sour.

I appreciate your concern and I understand why you feel that way, but I don't think there will be any further problems. <3

[Antares]

Ripple, you are taking this too far. Please do not insult members. Same with you Sapphire. Cool down please or this thread will have to be locked.

^^^That's the mod voice. Next post won't be a mod voice, just so we are all clear.

[Ripplemagne]

Fair enough. I was only matching offense with offense. Let us carry on.

[ShatteredWings]

Ripple, was there any point on the pictures of the bricks?

I would, but my argument was never that women were useless. Stay on topic.
I'm quite well on topic. You say that men are superior to women, I want you to give me ONE example on one thing that men truly can do that a woman cannot.

Superiority implies something can be done that the inferior cannot do.

[Ripplemagne]

Ripple, was there any point on the pictures of the bricks?

Familiarize yourself with "stone walling" and you'll understand.

I'm quite well on topic. You say that men are superior to women, I want you to give me ONE example on one thing that men truly can do that a woman cannot.

Superiority implies something can be done that the inferior cannot do.

Wrong. Superiority is when something can do something better than something else. Incapability =/= inferiority.

[ShatteredWings]

Incapable
1: lacking capacity, ability, or qualification for the purpose or end in view: as a archaic : not able to take in, hold, or keep b archaic : not receptive c not being in a state or of a kind to admit : insusceptible d: not able or fit for the doing or performance : incompetent
2: lacking legal qualification or power (as by reason of mental incompetence) : disqualified

Inferior
1: situated lower down : lower
2 a: of low or lower degree or rank b: of poor quality : mediocre
3: of little or less importance, value, or merit
4 a: situated below another and especially another similar superior part of an upright body b: situated in a relatively low posterior or ventral position in a quadrupedal body

I think these can be considered synonyms, but let's ignore this.
Why aren't you answering the question? Is it because you can't find anything to back up your statement there?

If men are superior, then logically women must be inferior.
I do not agree with this statement. However, let's move on.

Inferior persons logically require inferior right
Do you think that women deserve to have fewer rights?

[Camazotz]

Better at what? Are we generalizing that most men are better at some things than women?

[ShatteredWings]

Better in general
Superiority. As in that men (apparently) can do most things (by Ripplemage's own concession, not everything.) better than women.

Or at least that's what's being debated

[Ripplemagne]

I think these can be considered synonyms, but let's ignore this.

Nothing you underlined correlates at all. In fact, you just capsized your entire argument.

Keywords for incapable: lacking, not able

Keywords for inferior: less, low(er), little

If you have any understanding of English diction, you'll see that incapable means being unable to do something, while inferior means having a lesser ability. The two are not synonymous because one is a higher magnitude. That's like saying that running and walking are synonymous.

Why aren't you answering the question? Is it because you can't find anything to back up your statement there?

Not at all. I'm not backing something up that I never said. Conversely, you're attempting to stray from what I actually did say in an attempt to filibuster the argument by debating semantics that it's quite self-evident that you're wrong about.

You will have to find me where I said, even once, that a woman cannot do something. I said that they are, generally, not as good. Two entirely different stances.

If men are superior, then logically women must be inferior.
I do not agree with this statement. However, let's move on.

Inferior persons logically require inferior right
Do you think that women deserve to have fewer rights?

You haven't read this thread at all, have you?

[Death]

Neither sex is superior. They are both required for humanity and they are good at their own things. I don't care if any people (including moderators) think that posting this is wrong and start moaning at me; this is what I believe and we should not be saying that one sex is superior since life is not as simple as that. If we has no women, would we have men? No. Likewise, if we has no men, would we have women? No. Thus, they are both vital to life and therefore, neither is superior. I'm open to counter debates and I will consider them and take them into account but not downright insults that I have heard from a person (no names here so don't make assumptions) before on this thread.

[ShatteredWings]

Fine. Ignore the definitions. And yes actually i have read this thread. If the two genders deserve the same rights, then how can they not be equal?

equal rights = equal people

[Ripplemagne]

Neither sex is superior. They are both required for humanity and they are good at their own things. I don't care if any people (including moderators) think that posting this is wrong and start moaning at me; this is what I believe and we should not be saying that one sex is superior since life is not as simple as that. If we has no women, would we have men? No. Likewise, if we has no men, would we have women? No. Thus, they are both vital to life and therefore, neither is superior. I'm open to counter debates and I will consider them and take them into account but not downright insults that I have heard from a person (no names here so don't make assumptions) before on this thread.

You entirely miss the point of a discussion. No one, even once, said that women are useless. In fact, I've made it very emphatic that I do not think this, but words keep being put into my mouth. If you can't handle the debate, then you don't need to feel obligated to read or respond to it.

I am perfectly willing to discuss this rationally and calmly, but there's a natural abrasiveness to anti-egalitarianism. But that's why it needs to be discussed. I understand and respect all opinions, but why is it that mine has to be bashed and slandered?

I understand you're worried, but relax. It's just a discussion. No need to make it any more than that.

Fine. Ignore the definitions. And yes actually i have read this thread. If the two genders deserve the same rights, then how can they not be equal?

equal rights = equal people

I didn't ignore anything. There's nothing to ignore. The definitions support what I'm saying.

If you read the thread, you'd know that I support equal rights in spite of unequal skill. Just because someone isn't as good doesn't mean they shouldn't enjoy the same rights. No need to treat someone badly because they're not as good. If anything, I think the strong should be the armor of the weak.

[Death]

You entirely miss the point of a discussion. No one, even once, said that women are useless. In fact, I've made it very emphatic that I do not think this, but words keep being put into my mouth. If you can't handle the debate, then you don't need to feel obligated to read or respond to it.

It was this very attitude to which I was referring. I never said that you implied that women are useless. If you cannot respond to my simple opinions without being rude about my beliefs, kindly don't.

I am perfectly willing to discuss this rationally and calmly, but there's a natural abrasiveness to anti-egalitarianism. But that's why it needs to be discussed. I understand and respect all opinions, but why is it that mine has to be bashed and slandered?

It seems likely from what I've quoted first that you have no intention of discussing this calmly so I don't understand why you must mention it.

Both sexs are equal. It is stereotypes (which is a form of discrimination) that make peole believe otherwise. There are nice and helpful women and nasty and useless men. Likewise, there are nice and helpful men and nasty and useless men. It has nothing to do with sex. Now please respect this opinion and don't insult it like you did last time. If you want to calmly discuss this without insults or rudeness, please do. So long as you keep it at that.

[Ripplemagne]

It was this very attitude to which I was referring. I never said that you implied that women are useless. If you cannot respond to my simple opinions without being rude about my beliefs, kindly don't.

It seems likely from what I've quoted first that you have no intention of discussing this calmly so I don't understand why you must mention it.

How was I rude? Perhaps you are reading my posts differently than I'm writing them, but that was, in no way, rude. You made it clear that my opinion was wrong and it should no longer be discussed, while simultaneously misreading what I was saying. I responded accordingly. No rudeness found.

Both sexs are equal. It is stereotypes (which is a form of discrimination) that make peole believe otherwise. There are nice and helpful women and nasty and useless men. Likewise, there are nice and helpful men and nasty and useless men. It has nothing to do with sex. Now please respect this opinion and don't insult it like you did last time. If you want to calmly discuss this without insults or rudeness, please do. So long as you keep it at that.

Okay, I really need you to point out how I was rude and where I insulted you. Please quote me the insults and explain where I was rude. I don't know where you garner that I don't respect your opinion, but I would very much like you to explain yourself here.

[Bougainvillea]

This thread is really complicated. I agree with something from everyone. Although, sexist attitudes are what slow this country down. And it makes people feel terrible. That's my opinion.
All I'm going to say. My lips are :locked:.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Both sexs are equal. It is stereotypes (which is a form of discrimination) that make peole believe otherwise. There are nice and helpful women and nasty and useless men. Likewise, there are nice and helpful men and nasty and useless men. It has nothing to do with sex. Now please respect this opinion and don't insult it like you did last time. If you want to calmly discuss this without insults or rudeness, please do. So long as you keep it at that.

Dude, I have to be blunt your totally ignoring both sexes role in nature and I mean ignorantly. Yeah it is a stereotype but its true, but it doesnt make people believe other wise. We know that we have never been and never will be equal. It wasnt like I said before till about 100 years ago that women started gaining rights and even after all their work they still have less. We just are not equal, and I know your stil of arguing your going to say that god maid us equal blah blah blah. Humanity put itself in this situation, the two sexes will never be equal. We just have to deal with it. That's all I'm saying, I fear I've said too much Rose out.

[Ripplemagne]

Although, sexist attitudes are what slow this country down.

How?

[Rutherford The Brave]

How?

I am totally unaware of what he is speaking of, I think hes missing some crucial elements though. :\ once again, Gregga goes bye bye.

[Sapphire]

Sexist attitudes contribute to how people react to the victim. There are people who view the victim as often having done something to "ask for it" like dressing provocatively. This not only affects rape victims telling people they are close to but also in reporting it as a crime and going to court.
There is still a very strong tendency in our society for people to blame, disbelieve, or ostracize rape victims. Having a support person at your side is your absolute best protection against abuse by others because the person at your side is a witness to the other person's actions. -- http://www.justicewomen.com/help_special_rape.htmlRipp, you have made it clear that you don't know much about science and how scientific research is conducted. Science aims to gain knowledge where it is lacking and by its very nature challenges long held beliefs about the world.
This is how we came to know that the majority of people obey a figure in authority even when the actions they are being ordered to do conflict with what they know to be right.
This is also how we came to know that the Earth is spherical. And so on.

The differences in the amount of grey vs white matter in the brains of men and women doesn't prove one to be superior to the other. This is clear because the optimum situation would make use of the abilities of both genders.

This article shows that although men and women differ in certain cognitive abilities. But also that these differences do not affect their general intelligence.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q32317p68655h037/
So, contrary to what you like to think and say, women are no less intelligent or cognitively able than men.

This article shows that, through personality tests and a gender blind selection, women are better suited to international assignments than men are.
http://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=pdh&AN=psp-81-2-322&site=ehost-live
This is clearly an area in which women are more able than men.

These articles go to show that men and women differ in specific areas but they also indicate that these differences compliment each other or are negligible.

This article shows an interesting phenomenon where boys are more likely to achieve extreme scores in tests (really high or really low) than girls.
http://www.psy.ed.ac.uk/people/iand/Strand%20(2006)%20BR%20J%20Educ%20Psychol%20sex%20differences%20in%20intelligenc e%20uk%20national%20picture.pdf
If men are so inherently superior then a finding that places girls as achieving lower grades in general than boys would be expected, don't you think?

You are an ugly person on the inside, Ripp. Hence the sexism, the insults towards the scientific community, the repeated insults towards me and the provocation.

[Ripplemagne]

I thought you weren't posting in or reading this thread again? Hahahaha.

[Sapphire]

I thought you weren't posting in or reading this thread again? Hahahaha.
I have calmed down, detached myself from this and so have returned. Maybe you can get on to addressing my points properly now.

[BeautifulSilence]

John: Ripple, you are taking this too far. Please do not insult members. Same with you Sapphire. Cool down please or this thread will have to be locked.

Annnnd. There's been more insults. :locked: