Pictures of Alcohol/Cigarette/Drug Use

[Mzor203]

I am aware of the fact that the administration of VT has decided to allow pictures which portray members abusing substances such alcohol and cigarettes.

As a good deal of you know, I am opposed to this, but I'm going to put this out here in a more calm and civilised manner, and hopefully get other opinions on this.

The reason for allowing these pictures is the following: That since this is a global site, and thus people of many cultures, many legal smoking and drinking ages are housed here.

Now here's my argument against this, and I'm going to show it through example.

Sex is perfectly legal at the age of 16 in a good deal of the world. Yet, we are not allowed to discuss it in great detail. With words. More so, we are certainly not allowed to post pictures of anything relating to sex. I know there are actual rules in place prohibiting pictures, yet again we cannot even discuss anything sexual in detail.

The second thing I see is that VT does not promote drug use. Yet this certainly promotes it. Why? Because the only reason I can see for adding something like that into a picture is to make yourself look cool. If you're giving off the impression that smoking or drinking makes you cool, you are promoting it.

Thirdly, VT doesn't allow pictures of self harm. I'm not really sure how drugs and self harm are any worse than each other. Drugs can get you addicted, self-harm can get get you addicted. Both harm your body. Both hurt loved ones. Self-harm isn't illegal, yet you don't allow pictures of it. Drugs/alcohol is illegal for the vast majority of this site, yet you do allow it.

In short, it just isn't appropriate for a teen site, just in the way that many other things aren't appropriate.

My suggestion: rethink this particular feature of the rules.

Feel free to discuss and expand upon this.

[Bobby]

I agree. I don't want this image on our site. Do we want to look like that?

[AllThatIsLeft]

i dont care about it, if it's allowed or prohibited.

pictures dont influence what i do or dont do.
and no one else should be influenced by it either.

[Antares]

i dont care about it, if it's allowed or prohibited.

pictures dont influence what i do or dont do.
and no one else should be influenced by it either.

In response to Paula, the unfortunate fact is that people are easily influenced. Especially young teens. And some of our governments understand that too. Hence why cigarette commercials are banned.

I totally agree.
This is a teen site. If a teen comes on here...lets say a 13 year old. They see other teens that they may "look up to" using drugs/etc. they may think they should try these illegal substances.

I think that by having these pictures up it promotes drug usage. I mean heck, the drug forum promotes drug usage. Which is all illegal might I add. So I think we need to start removing all pictures portraying illegal/underage drug usage. Especially when we know that the user is underage.

I mean, if I can post pictures of me totally wasted or smoking, then why can't I post a picture of me doing something also illegal like having sex or equally sensitive like cutting (note, those comparisons are a bit extreme but hopefully proves my point)

[MoveAlong]

Drugs are often self harm? Yes? Yes or no?

[Mzor203]

i dont care about it, if it's allowed or prohibited.

pictures dont influence what i do or dont do.
and no one else should be influenced by it either.

Influence isn't the only reason. As Bobby pointed out, the image of VT deteriorates if there's a ton of those pictures. Plus it's just something I don't want to see, and quite a few wouldn't want to see I'm sure.

Oh, and Zack, as you posted that I was editing my post to include my view on that. :P

[AllThatIsLeft]

Like i said i dont mind it either way.
but i see your point.

[Antares]

Drugs are often self harm? Yes? Yes or no?

I personally think it is self harm...harming self. It is in the definition

Just like cutting, or perging (sp) or any other thing that our site harbors.

[theOperaGhost]

I couldnt agree with rex more. In fact at the time both of us were staff we brought it up but found very little support. I think it puts a pretty shameful image on this site and it is a promotion of drug use just like pictures of scars or cuts promote self harm. I dont think these pictures should be permitted under any circumstances.

[MoveAlong]

I'm sorry guys but I haven't really seen this. I guess if it is happening though, it should be prevented.

[Mzor203]

It's happened, I can attest to the fact that this has been discussed before, but I cannot show anyone it because that would be unfair to those who are currently sporting such pictures, in a rule-abiding manner at this time.

[The Joker]

I totally agree Tibificus Rex.

Sorry, yes I totally agree Rex.

[Donkey]

Totally agree. Hate it when I see pictures like this, and as soon as this comes into force, i'll report them.

[Neverender]

I dont really care too much about these pictures to a certain extent.

For example, I found this picture on the site:
I believe this is unacceptable.

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2752/lad8ac25482963c0c0ac8c7hq5.jpg



Whereas (My profile picture):
This should be acceptable to at least some degree.

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp206/Newfie545/n757035400_3775150_5404.jpg

[Antares]

I dont really care too much about these pictures to a certain extent.

For example, I found this picture on the site:
I believe this is unacceptable.

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2752/lad8ac25482963c0c0ac8c7hq5.jpg



Whereas (My profile picture):
This should be acceptable to at least some degree.

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp206/Newfie545/n757035400_3775150_5404.jpg

Well the bottom picture doesn't show any alcohol or drugs so I don't think anyone matters. I think when its clearly shown like above or in soo many other albums on this site, it becomes a problem.

[Neverender]

I think when its clearly shown like above or in soo many other albums on this site, it becomes a problem.

Especially since we're supposed to be helping to give support for someone who, for example, is quitting smoking. But then they see the Picture and they see/feel a conflict of messages the site is sending.

[redcar]

Last time I checked the rules we didn't allow any promotion of drug useage? Pictures of persons using drugs would constitute breaking this rule, which carries a big enough punishment. We also dont show images of self harm. Correct me if I am wrong?

I agree with them totally. Sure it was me and Ben who decided to crack down on promoting drug useage.

But cigarette and alcohol... get over yourselves. Those two are perfectly legal for some people. Drug useage is illegal and cutting is something we say we dont show because part of this sites remit is to help people who do cut and showing pictures of same is just not conducive to that.

I strongly suggest any of you who back this idea to rethink. Otherwise lets crackdown on talking and showing pictures of cars. Most of the site aren't able to drive, because it is illegal for them to do so, so lets not talk about it. While we are at it, lets stop all talk of getting a job, because some people here it would be illegal for them to work because they are underage.

[AllThatIsLeft]

What Alex said is a good point.
We can't prohibit everything that isn't legal.
and a picture isn't going to change anything.

[Donkey]

Does talking or driving do any harm to teenagers, who also happen to be the audience of this website? I know cigarettes and alcohol do.

It's not exactly a good look for the site.

[redcar]

Does talking or driving do any harm to teenagers, who also happen to be the audience of this website? I know cigarettes and alcohol do.

It's not exactly a good look for the site.
Do you really want me to find stats on how it is young males who are the people most likely to die driving?

Cigarettes aren't good for you but they are deeply part of society at this stage. Alcohol is ok in moderation.

So please using this arguement that it doesnt look good for the site is ridiculous. What if people come on and say "Oh I dont like the gays here, they make it look bad!" or "Yea I dont think Americans are really what the world want at the moment, so lets ban them!". Ridiculous eh? Same as this suggestion.

[Donkey]

Do you really want me to find stats on how it is young males who are the people most likely to die driving?

Cigarettes aren't good for you but they are deeply part of society at this stage. Alcohol is ok in moderation.

So please using this arguement that it doesnt look good for the site is ridiculous. What if people come on and say "Oh I dont like the gays here, they make it look bad!" or "Yea I dont think Americans are really what the world want at the moment, so lets ban them!". Ridiculous eh? Same as this suggestion.
:|

If I came to a site, and instantly saw pictures of teenagers smoking and drinking, I'd leave. Simple as that.

I don't care how many gays there are, or pictures of cars.

[redcar]

:|

If I came to a site, and instantly saw pictures of teenagers smoking and drinking, I'd leave. Simple as that.

I don't care how many gays there are, or pictures of cars.
You sort of just proved my point. Ya can't presume that everyones opinions are the same. You may not like pictures of teens drinking and smoking but at the same time some people may not like gay people. Just because you don't like something that really isn't hurting anyone why should you be the one to decide that it shouldn't be allowed?

[Donkey]

It seems that a lot of peoples opinions here is that these pictures should be disallowed...

But I can't debate right now because i'm so close to snapping. Not because of you.

[redcar]

I've been here almost 5 years and seen some bad decisions happen and if this goes ahead it will trump them all.

[Skittle Flavored]

I do think that, even though all these are related, they are separate issues needed to take into consideration. I do not believe we can shove every single picture that makes someone cringe under one umbrella. I think that they are separate problems, and should be treated as such. A picture of someone smoking, however bad it might be, IS in fact different than a picture of sexual relations of any kind. A picture of someone cutting themselves IS different then drinking booze. As tedious as it is to nit pick through these and either ban or allow, I personally believe it should be done.

[Antares]

I think that drugs and alcohol are different than cars.

The people on this site are middle schoolers.

If I were naive, coming to this site (and I read some posts like this too) and read a post, then thought it sounded "cool" then posted "I want to try that, sounds fun" or cool.

Thats honestly not what I want. When I look at the picture, I can see that people are "having fun" or what not.

I think that pictures means a lot more than a lot than older people think. Younger people are easily influenced by things like pictures. Especially when they are in a stage where they are trying to fit in and find themselves.

I think as a teen help site, helping kids that deal with maybe alcoholic parents or friends or themselves, pictures of underage kids (that we know are underage especially) doing illegal things shouldn't be tolerated on VirtualTEEN.

[redcar]

Wrapping people up in cotton wool does not do any good. You can't shield people from all this, so doing it here would be a waste of time. If this was implemented where would the censorship end?

[Bobby]

Kids see drugs, alcohol, and bad things everywhere. Why should we do it here?
It's really looks pretty trashy when people are posting themselves with bongs on here. Not to mention we've had plenty of people post pictures of them doing things that are illegal for them. I certainly don't want to not help fight teen drug and alcohol use.

If we allow pictures of alcohol and drug use, things that can end the lives of many teens, should we just send out knifes to let everyone stab themselves?

[Donkey]

Kids see drugs, alcohol, and bad things everywhere. Why should we do it here?
It's really looks pretty trashy when people are posting themselves with bongs on here. Not to mention we've had plenty of people post pictures of them doing things that are illegal for them. I certainly don't want to not help fight teen drug and alcohol use.

If we allow pictures of alcohol and drug use, things that can end the lives of many teens, should we just send out knifes to let everyone stab themselves?
Yeah. After all, we see knifes everyday.

[Antares]

Wrapping people up in cotton wool does not do any good. You can't shield people from all this, so doing it here would be a waste of time. If this was implemented where would the censorship end?

The censorship would end about there...

I mean, I am not all for the excessive censorship on this forum anyways. I think a lot of it can be out of the window but I think this is one of the more important ones.

I understand that protecting kids isn't really the way to go, but they shouldn't learn all that stuff from an online help forum. Let them learn it on their own. On their own time. Not on our site.

I see this site as a place that people look up too.
Setting the bad example, in my opinion, isn't the way to go.
And by hosting pictures of the bad example, it makes us worse than the poster.

[theOperaGhost]

this is in response to alex and i apologize since i am on my phone. I havent completely read your posts but ive got the jist of it. Now you ask where the censorship ends...while i ask where it begins...why are pictures of self harm and porn prohibited? Porn isnt illegal for all of us...some of us are over 18. im talking about porn site btw...not kiddy porn...thats disgusting. And like jon said...we see knives every day...so why censor that since a tool for cutting can be seen so easily? This site needs to have censorship and since we claim to strictly prohibit drug promotion...these pictures should also be prohibited.

[Neverender]

Kids see drugs, alcohol, and bad things everywhere. Why should we do it here?

Agreed. They might come here just to get away from the drugs, alcoholism, and bad things everywhere and find help as to what to do. But then find pictures of it on the site.

Sends a mixed message of "help".

(Psst that doesnt mean you have to grab every picture with illegal matters in it and burn them, just to an extent so it doesn't look like we support it.)

I will reiterate this picture:

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2752/lad8ac25482963c0c0ac8c7hq5.jpg

Saying we dont support it and want to give help to people around these matters is hard while they are staring at a picture like this.

[redcar]

Kids see drugs, alcohol, and bad things everywhere. Why should we do it here?
It's really looks pretty trashy when people are posting themselves with bongs on here. Not to mention we've had plenty of people post pictures of them doing things that are illegal for them. I certainly don't want to not help fight teen drug and alcohol use.

If we allow pictures of alcohol and drug use, things that can end the lives of many teens, should we just send out knifes to let everyone stab themselves?
Ok let me just clear this up I am talking about cigarette and alcohol here because as far as drugs and self harm are concerned:
Content that encourages illegal activities, such as warez and illegal drug use, including any links to such illegal activities are strictly prohibited. Any promotion toward drug usage, self harm, or suicide will absolutely not be tolerated.

The censorship would end about there...

I mean, I am not all for the excessive censorship on this forum anyways. I think a lot of it can be out of the window but I think this is one of the more important ones.

I understand that protecting kids isn't really the way to go, but they shouldn't learn all that stuff from an online help forum. Let them learn it on their own. On their own time. Not on our site.

I see this site as a place that people look up too.
Setting the bad example, in my opinion, isn't the way to go.
And by hosting pictures of the bad example, it makes us worse than the poster.
You see you say that the censorship would end there, but would it? Whats the next thing you would dislike? What else would you consider a 'bad example'?


this is in response to alex and i apologize since i am on my phone. I havent completely read your posts but ive got the jist of it. Now you ask where the censorship ends...while i ask where it begins...why are pictures of self harm and porn prohibited? Porn isnt illegal for all of us...some of us are over 18. im talking about porn site btw...not kiddy porn...thats disgusting. And like jon said...we see knives every day...so why censor that since a tool for cutting can be seen so easily? This site needs to have censorship and since we claim to strictly prohibit drug promotion...these pictures should also be prohibited.
Self harm is prohipited because VT was set up initially with the Psychiatric Ward as main forums and part of it to help people who self harm. Porn is prohibited because if we allowed that what we would have is a lot of older people coming here and actually providing a danger to younger members and I am not talking about knives.
We have censored other things but we had justification, good justification for doing it. Thats why I am here argueing, not one person here has made a strong arguement for banning such pictures. They are all wishy washy reasons that have no leg to stand on.

[ShatteredWings]

I don't see the problem...
It's illegal for most of us in most countries, but aren't a lot of the things we talk about 'bad' too?

[Antares]

You see you say that the censorship would end there, but would it? Whats the next thing you would dislike? What else would you consider a 'bad example'?

That's exactly my point, I don't really considering everything else a bad example. As I scour my mind, I can't see me thinking any other bad examples because they are already against the rules.

I don't see the problem...
It's illegal for most of us in most countries, but aren't a lot of the things we talk about 'bad' too?

A lot of the "bad" stuff we talk about is against the rules :/

Allow it all or ban it all :P

[The Joker]

Just wanted to add in my two cents. It disgusts me when I see kids drinking booze and doing drugs, and putting it up online. I saw about 200 pics of this girl, 13 at the time, having tequila, whiskey, doing shots, having drinking contests with big bottles of wine. All from the same night. It actually made me lose all respect for her. I think that you can ban all illegal photos, I guess, but if that person isn't following the law for their country, it should be removed.

[Maverick]

Porn is prohibited because if we allowed that what we would have is a lot of older people coming here and actually providing a danger to younger members
Not to mention VT could not legally operate as a website intended for minors with porn on them. Also our web host strictly prohibits uploading pornographic content.

[Mzor203]

But I will state once more, this.

Self harm is not illegal as far as I'm aware. To the majority of this site, smoking and consuming alcohol is.

Self harm is not addictive. Not in the sense that cigarettes are. Aside form that, there is a point at which you can constantly self harm without inflicting serious damage on your body, while every time you smoke a cigarette, you are doing damage to your lungs, to your brain, and to your body as a whole.

Self harm will not cause you to drive in an impaired manner. It will not change your reasoning in the way alcohol will, and it will not impair all judgement for most.

Yet we don't allow it. There was a picture of some scars someone had a while ago, and it wasn't even used in a self-harm promoting way. No, it was simply a photograph meant to look artistic, and yet it was deleted on sight. And you still allow pictures of alcohol and cigarettes, which are illegal and have the potential to cause tons of damage to your body, and in the case of alcohol, to others around you, which self harm cannot do.

I come to VT because it's a place that I see as actually sensible. But more and more I am seeing it become less appropriate. We have 13-year-olds here for heaven's sake!

VT should be a place that promotes healthy growth. A place which helps people get better. People in a true psychiatric ward don't have to go through their days seeing images of people smoking and drinking, do they? It would be nice if VT could live up to its name, and uphold a higher standard.

[Donkey]

We have 13-year-olds here for heaven's sake!

This be a problem?

[Mzor203]

This be a problem?

The 13 year olds are not the problem, the content said 13 year olds are being exposed to is the problem.

How I think of this: Let's keep this as a site that mom would approve of.

[Donkey]

The 13 year olds are not the problem, the content said 13 year olds are being exposed to is the problem.

How I think of this: Let's keep this as a site that mom would approve of.
People have questions. We can't exactly filter out the people that still need help because some people disapprove of the question.

[MoveAlong]

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2752/lad8ac25482963c0c0ac8c7hq5.jpg

Ok I'm sorry but no. That is not ok.

[Mzor203]

People have questions. We can't exactly filter out the people that still need help because some people disapprove of the question.

Wait, are you for or against pictures with smoking?

Basically, all I was saying is that it isn't acceptle to have such pictures on a site with very young people. I said NOTHING about 13 year olds other than the fact that they're there.

Jeez Jon. I thought you were on my side. :P

[Donkey]

Wait, are you for or against pictures with smoking?

Basically, all I was saying is that it isn't acceptle to have such pictures on a site with very young people. I said NOTHING about 13 year olds other than the fact that they're there.

Jeez Jon. I thought you were on my side. :P
OSH--

I had a completely different frame of mind talking to someone on MSN.

So yeah, I agree.

[YourFriend]

My mum wouldn't aprove this site anyway, with cigarette and alcohol pistures or without them.

[redcar]

Let's keep this as a site that mom would approve of.
Let's not. VT is not here to pander to parents.


Ok I'm sorry but no. That is not ok.
What exactly is wrong with it?

[theOperaGhost]

The harm in it? It promotes drug usage which is against site rules. I ask what the point is for permitting it is. Why post these kind of pictures? So people can say "oh look at me! I do drugs! I'm fucking awesome!!!" Theres no reason to allow it.

[MyNameIsJack]

I agree, it's not ok. I don't care about alcohol but drugs shouldn't be allowed.

[Mzor203]

Let's not. VT is not here to pander to parents.

What exactly is the site here for? It's here to help teens, unless I've missed something recently. I will reiterate once again that these pictures only encourage people to start up stuff such as drinking and smoking. And once again, these are lifestyle choices which are just as harmful as self-harm, if not more so in some instances.

What is the purpose of having such images up on the site? There's really not much as far as I can see. People just think it makes them look cool, and it's giving this place a feel and look that I don't like.

[redcar]

The harm in it? It promotes drug usage which is against site rules. I ask what the point is for permitting it is. Why post these kind of pictures? So people can say "oh look at me! I do drugs! I'm fucking awesome!!!" Theres no reason to allow it.

I agree, it's not ok. I don't care about alcohol but drugs shouldn't be allowed.
For those who really haven't read this thread properly. :)
Any promotion toward drug usage, self harm, or suicide will absolutely not be tolerated.

What exactly is the site here for? It's here to help teens, unless I've missed something recently. I will reiterate once again that these pictures only encourage people to start up stuff such as drinking and smoking. And once again, these are lifestyle choices which are just as harmful as self-harm, if not more so in some instances.

What is the purpose of having such images up on the site? There's really not much as far as I can see. People just think it makes them look cool, and it's giving this place a feel and look that I don't like.
Seeing something doesn't mean people are going to do it. I was watching tv this evening and saw someone having a cigarette didn't make me want to go out and have one did it. Granted cigarettes are one of the worlds only products that if used as per instruction will cause you serious harm, but people need to make their own decisions when it comes to it. Blocking pictures of it along with alcohol here what will that achieve in the grand scheme of things. Absolutly nothing.

In fact it creates a very bad image for this site. It shows new members and visitors that the place is run like a police state, where someone can't post a picture where someone may be smoking in it. That is not what VT is about and I am still waiting on a good arguement for this idea. The notion that "it doesn't show a good image of the site" is frankly piss poor.

[MoveAlong]

What exactly is wrong with it?

Gross an innapropriate.
"Look at me guyz drinkin' underage and smokin' I'm so cool Lollz"

both of those are gross. Especially underage people, which these people look underage.
They also look like they're having fun with something illegal.

Maybe I'm just a goody-two-shoes but it's very unappealing to me.
I'm sure Alex, in your mystical ways, you will find an argument against this.

[redcar]

Gross an innapropriate.
"Look at me guyz drinkin' underage and smokin' I'm so cool Lollz"

both of those are gross. Especially underage people, which these people look underage.
They also look like they're having fun with something illegal.

Maybe I'm just a goody-two-shoes but it's very unappealing to me.
And do we ban all the people in Puberty101 telling about their underage sexual activities. God knows we can't have people having fun underage.

[Antares]

What exactly is wrong with it?Really!? You can't see the obvious, horrendous, display of underage alcohol (which last time I checked was a drug) and cigarette (which also is a drug...and also those may not even be cigarettes, but I am not sure) use?!
I mean, I think it is embarrassing for the people in this picture also.

I can't even properly vocalize how...sad that picture actually is. It basically shows a bunch of teenagers that are completely out of their mind acting like some idiots further perpetualizing the possible stereotypes placed on teenagers.

I think the question is what isn't wrong with that picture.

In addition to that, I would like to know what good it is doing our site for allowing drug photos to be displayed. Like I said before, I don't think the older adults realize how easily influenced the younger members are. I think that we need to set an example. Not to abuse drugs. Not to display drug usage.

Its a simple concept, why hasn't it been added to the rules and enforced?

Lastly, alcohol is a drug. Cigarettes are drugs. Why aren't they under the umbrella term that are clearly defined in our rules???

And do we ban all the people in Puberty101 telling about their underage sexual activities. God knows we can't have people having fun underage.

Well it all gets deleted, locked, or edited anyways, so no reason to ban. Well, at least thats what is encouraged by the seniors...

[Bobby]

For those who really haven't read this thread properly. :)



Seeing something doesn't mean people are going to do it. I was watching tv this evening and saw someone having a cigarette didn't make me want to go out and have one did it. Granted cigarettes are one of the worlds only products that if used as per instruction will cause you serious harm, but people need to make their own decisions when it comes to it. Blocking pictures of it along with alcohol here what will that achieve in the grand scheme of things. Absolutly nothing.

In fact it creates a very bad image for this site. It shows new members and visitors that the place is run like a police state, where someone can't post a picture where someone may be smoking in it. That is not what VT is about and I am still waiting on a good arguement for this idea. The notion that "it doesn't show a good image of the site" is frankly piss poor.

You are also 21 years old. You have to keep in mind that there are people at the age of 13 (and most likely younger). The younger a person is, the more easily they are persuaded into doing something. Especially something like the pictures being debated. If kids see other people being rebellious, there is a large chance they will join on the rebellious movement.

And I have to say, if they don't like this place because of the way it's run, they don't need to be here. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to please, but there is not reason we shouldn't keep this as a safe place for teens to be.

[MoveAlong]

And do we ban all the people in Puberty101 telling about their underage sexual activities. God knows we can't have people having fun underage.

I hardly consider something like smoking and alcohol use fun.

Of course, I'm probably blind-deaf because I've never done those things, but they're just so gross to me.

Plus while P101 is unbelievably gross, it's not up to me to try to get rid of it. That's basically impossible.

Why can't minors have fun with regular things, like laser tag, sporting events, hanging out with friends, listening to loud music, etc?

[Antares]

I think that it is safe to compare VirtualTeen allowing illegal drug usage to advertised on it's site to the Teen Centre allowing 55 year olds to join their forum.

I think that VT right now is being hypocritical of itself. We are really not helping when we are advertising, like its perfectly fine and its people "having fun", the exact things that people are dealing with. Also, we are didn't specify what constitutes a drug, when we all know that alcohol and cigarettes are drugs. And finally we are basically censoring every single other thing but we are allowing one of the worst.

Debating Religion isn't illegal. Critisizing religious people isn't illegal, yet we lock those threads up like their is no tomorrow. Same with p101. We don't let mastubatory techniques to get shared. We basically lock, edit, and delete everything thats "borderline" but we can't take one step and expand our rules to help protect our members, reputation, and overall image.

Thats some philosophy.

[redcar]

Really!? You can't see the obvious, horrendous, display of underage alcohol (which last time I checked was a drug) and cigarette (which also is a drug...and also those may not even be cigarettes, but I am not sure) use?!
I mean, I think it is embarrassing for the people in this picture also.

I can't even properly vocalize how...sad that picture actually is. It basically shows a bunch of teenagers that are completely out of their mind acting like some idiots further perpetualizing the possible stereotypes placed on teenagers.

I think the question is what isn't wrong with that picture.

In addition to that, I would like to know what good it is doing our site for allowing drug photos to be displayed. Like I said before, I don't think the older adults realize how easily influenced the younger members are. I think that we need to set an example. Not to abuse drugs. Not to display drug usage.

Its a simple concept, why hasn't it been added to the rules and enforced?

Lastly, alcohol is a drug. Cigarettes are drugs. Why aren't they under the umbrella term that are clearly defined in our rules???



Well it all gets deleted, locked, or edited anyways, so no reason to ban. Well, at least thats what is encouraged by the seniors...
Please let's get into semantics.

You think its embarassing for the people in the picture? Please don't cast a judging eye here.

You are also 21 years old. You have to keep in mind that there are people at the age of 13 (and most likely younger). The younger a person is, the more easily they are persuaded into doing something. Especially something like the pictures being debated. If kids see other people being rebellious, there is a large chance they will join on the rebellious movement.

And I have to say, if they don't like this place because of the way it's run, they don't need to be here. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to please, but there is not reason we shouldn't keep this as a safe place for teens to be.
When I was 13 I never thought smoking was cool. Its all about the learning curve, people need to learn that stuff isn't nice themselves. It's not VT's job to do that. By not talking about it or not showing pictures of it isn't going to take the urge away. It really won't.

Really do you think that by not showing pictures of people drinking and smoking you are making VT 'safe'?
I hardly consider something like smoking and alcohol use fun.

Of course, I'm probably blind-deaf because I've never done those things, but they're just so gross to me.
I am all for people who dont smoke or drink but to judge people who do, I have a problem there.

I think that it is safe to compare VirtualTeen allowing illegal drug usage to advertised on it's site to the Teen Centre allowing 55 year olds to join their forum.

I think that VT right now is being hypocritical of itself. We are really not helping when we are advertising, like its perfectly fine and its people "having fun", the exact things that people are dealing with. Also, we are didn't specify what constitutes a drug, when we all know that alcohol and cigarettes are drugs. And finally we are basically censoring every single other thing but we are allowing one of the worst.

Debating Religion isn't illegal. Critisizing religious people isn't illegal, yet we lock those threads up like their is no tomorrow. Same with p101. We don't let mastubatory techniques to get shared. We basically lock, edit, and delete everything thats "borderline" but we can't take one step and expand our rules to help protect our members, reputation, and overall image.

Thats some philosophy.
We lock those threads because it will cause arguements. We lock mastubatory threads because it attracts the wrong type of people.

Again how does not showing pictures of people drinking and smoking protect members? Seriously. It doesn't.

[Bobby]

Alex, you can't look at this just through your eyes. There are stupid people who are 13 out there, I know plenty of them.
And drug picture don't attract the wrong people? You want stoners here? That's just what we need. 50 stoners.

Safe, we need to keep VT safe. We are not helping out members by allow people who post drug pictures to post their bad behaviors here. I don't want to come on here and find out that some kid saw another kid smoking, he started himself, and now has severe asthma. That is not safe. As far as drugs on VT, I want it to stick to helping people. That's what the site is about. You of all people should know that. These photos don't help ANYONE.

[Antares]

You think its embarassing for the people in the picture? Please don't cast a judging eye here.


We lock those threads because it will cause arguements. We lock mastubatory threads because it attracts the wrong type of people.

Again how does not showing pictures of people drinking and smoking protect members? Seriously. It doesn't.

Umm yes. On this side, I think that its embarrassing for them. And for all I know they may have forgot about that picture and never want to see it again because they know they look like complete idiots. They probably want to burn it. Well...the original...well...its probably digital...WHATEVER you get the point :P

Umm we lock those threads because it will cause arguments. That's true but isn't that what a debate is? A structured argument?
If the members of VT aren't mature enough to be able to effectively converse and aruge with one another how are they able to look at pictures of drug usage and not be remotely influenced by it????


You say when you were 13 you weren't affected but that was you. I am sure that there are many many other kids that are easily influenced and us flaunting it around like its okay isn't exactly helping our cause.


To answer your final question, by not showing these pictures of drug usage, we allow the young teenagers to have a chance to do it on their own without us being in the picture and able to be blamed for aiding in this. Apart from that little tid bit, it protects the members from being exposed to people that choose to do illegal things, may have a dependence on them for all we know, and allow them to get through their problems without viewing something that they are trying to get over.

I am going to stop posting in this thread for a while because it seems to be getting no where.
The senior staff hasn't even acknowledged their opinion on it after all this time and after all they are the people that make the rules.

[redcar]

Alex, you can't look at this just through your eyes. There are stupid people who are 13 out there, I know plenty of them.
And drug picture don't attract the wrong people? You want stoners here? That's just what we need. 50 stoners.

Safe, we need to keep VT safe. We are not helping out members by allow people who post drug pictures to post their bad behaviors here. I don't want to come on here and find out that some kid saw another kid smoking, he started himself, and now has severe asthma. That is not safe. As far as drugs on VT, I want it to stick to helping people. That's what the site is about. You of all people should know that. These photos don't help ANYONE.
Why do you keep mentioning drugs? I am not advocating drug pictures because all promotion of drugs is banned. Look at the rules. Banned.

[Bobby]

Okay, it's the same deal with alcohol. What exactly are you referring to?

[Mzor203]

The notion that "it doesn't show a good image of the site" is frankly piss poor.

I'm not sure how, exactly. You haven't given any evidence other than repeating that over and over again.

It is your opinion that all this stuff is fine. It is many peoples' opinions, that it is not, however. And isn't VT here to cater to its members?

And you say parents shouldn't have anything to do with this... yet the front page has a huge section on articles for parents specifically.

Personally, my parents think that this site is an excellent resource for teens, which it is, until we get to the part where it has pictures that can influence minors to do illegal things. And I'm sorry, but, seeing pictures will influence some people, especially if they are young. At 13-14 years old, you're at the place where peer pressure is going to be weighing down heavily already.

To me, these pictures are disgusting. You ask: what is the point of disallowing them? I ask: what is the point of allowing them? I don't see a point. They don't do anything for your image, and they are terrible-looking on a site that is supposed to help teens.

[redcar]

Umm yes. On this side, I think that its embarrassing for them. And for all I know they may have forgot about that picture and never want to see it again because they know they look like complete idiots. They probably want to burn it. Well...the original...well...its probably digital...WHATEVER you get the point :P

Umm we lock those threads because it will cause arguments. That's true but isn't that what a debate is? A structured argument?
If the members of VT aren't mature enough to be able to effectively converse and aruge with one another how are they able to look at pictures of drug usage and not be remotely influenced by it????


You say when you were 13 you weren't affected but that was you. I am sure that there are many many other kids that are easily influenced and us flaunting it around like its okay isn't exactly helping our cause.


To answer your final question, by not showing these pictures of drug usage, we allow the young teenagers to have a chance to do it on their own without us being in the picture and able to be blamed for aiding in this. Apart from that little tid bit, it protects the members from being exposed to people that choose to do illegal things, may have a dependence on them for all we know, and allow them to get through their problems without viewing something that they are trying to get over.

I am going to stop posting in this thread for a while because it seems to be getting no where.
The senior staff hasn't even acknowledged their opinion on it after all this time and after all they are the people that make the rules.
Debates on religion are never structured arguements. You can never compare religious debates to anything else. They are the exception.

Again with the drug useage, its already banned.

I know everyone is sick of me at this stage, but I am 21. I have come out of my teens ok, survived them pretty well. I was administrator here for two years. I really only have the best interests of VT when I debate here. I am not argueing for the sake of it.

[redcar]

Personally, my parents think that this site is an excellent resource for teens, which it is, until we get to the part where it has pictures that can influence minors to do illegal things. And I'm sorry, but, seeing pictures will influence some people, especially if they are young. At 13-14 years old, you're at the place where peer pressure is going to be weighing down heavily already.

To me, these pictures are disgusting. You ask: what is the point of disallowing them? I ask: what is the point of allowing them? I don't see a point. They don't do anything for your image, and they are terrible-looking on a site that is supposed to help teens.
Have you ever seen a film where someone drinks or smokes? They aren't films that are only 18+ are they?

My problem is that if this actually were to happen, the censorship would just continue. All that is needed is a foot in the door and then suddenly more and more things can get banned. Teens need to be protected but they also need to let make their own mistakes. It is not my job, the admins job, your job to try and stop this. You learn by your mistakes. You grow from it. Can not wrap people in cotton wool. We live in free societies where we can make mistakes. Introduce this and VT is on a nasty road down.

[Bobby]

Who says it can't stop?

Our Senior Staff is in control now, and it's not like they are uncontrollable lunatics. I'm pretty confident they could stop with "censorship" after this. I don't even know what they really think about all of this, but I definitely think they are capable of making a decision and not letting it go to far.

This is hardly Russia in the early 1920's.

[redcar]

Who says it can't stop?

Our Senior Staff is in control now, and it's not like they are uncontrollable lunatics. I'm pretty confident they could stop with "censorship" after this. I don't even know what they really think about all of this, but I definitely think they are capable of making a decision and not letting it go to far.

This is hardly Russia in the early 1920's.
Please Bobby dont try and make out that staff make decisions independant totally of what members want. Staff are the group of people who facilitate the running of the site based on what members want and their general feeling.

[Bobby]

So if the members are making the decisions ultimately...what happens if they want more censoring?

I think we need some more opinions.

[Mzor203]

My problem is that if this actually were to happen, the censorship would just continue.

Conversely, if nothing is done, then restrictions may continue to be done away with to the point where it's suddenly okay to post pictures of SI and drug usage.

And again, I ask, how come VT censors Self-harm, but not cigarettes?

[redcar]

So if the members are making the decisions ultimately...what happens if they want more censoring?

I think we need some more opinions.
Then its the staff's job to stop the bad decisions. For the good of the site. Checks and balances.

[Bobby]

Then its the staff's job to stop the bad decisions. For the good of the site. Checks and balances.

Exactly. If the members want more censorship, the admins will make the right decision. This is an action that can be taken now that IS a good decision. And looking down the road, I don't see any other problems with it except a few angry people and a little more required picture-modding.

[theOperaGhost]

First of all...where the fuck is all the staff...i see a huge problem that one admin has responded once and his response was hardly pertinent to the thread. The senior staff needs to get their heads out of their asses and either heed the members' suggestions or stop them. Why have a suggestion thread if the suggestions never fucking get considered? SENIORS...WAKE THE FUCK UP! YOU ARE RUNNING THIS SITE...YOUR INPUT IS KIND OF NECESSARY. Now to alex...i agree that too much censorship is a bad thing...however i hardly think prohibiting something that promotes drug usage...which is against site rules is too much censorship and it certainly isnt excessivwe or over the top...

[Maverick]

First of all...where the fuck is all the staff...i see a huge problem that one admin has responded once and his response was hardly pertinent to the thread. The senior staff needs to get their heads out of their asses and either heed the members' suggestions or stop them. Why have a suggestion thread if the suggestions never fucking get considered? SENIORS...WAKE THE FUCK UP! YOU ARE RUNNING THIS SITE...YOUR INPUT IS KIND OF NECESSARY. Now to alex...i agree that too much censorship is a bad thing...however i hardly think prohibiting something that promotes drug usage...which is against site rules is too much censorship and it certainly isnt excessivwe or over the top...
Jared, if you would like opinions, you can ask for them a lot nicer. Your post was really uncalled for and I don't take it too kindly to be talked to like that. There can be disagreements and such but there still needs to be a certain level of respect.

The whole point of this forum is for members to post feedback. So while we may not be posting immediately (there's a good reason for that), I've been following this thread and hearing both sides of the arguments. If staff post too prematurely the suggestion often dies off because people won't feel its necessary to post anymore simply because an admin or mod posted their opinion.

Also a staff member may not post because they might not have reached an opinion yet. We are people too and don't instantly have all the answers for you immediately. I am sure keeping this open and allowing people to post their feedback is a lot better than me posting 'Thanks for your suggestion but we have no plans to change our rules. Thread closed.'

Suggestions do get considered and there's plenty of evidence to prove that. To say they don't is a lie.

Jared, and to everyone else, your suggestion is being considered and all opinions here are being taking note of. Once we have something concrete to post we will.

[theOperaGhost]

Ant its simple as that response right there...you could respond to the suggestion by saying it is being considered and we will take into account more opinions. A simple response is all we look for...not a final decision at least right away. You all need to do a better job of acknowledging what the members want or need...this is like a government...there needs to be better communication between the members and the staff. Im sorry for taking such a strong opposition to how staff handles thing because i like you all quite a lot (i hope you know that) but when i see something wrong im gonna do something about it...whether it offends people or not...you cant always make everyone happy and to try is just ignorant.

[Maverick]

In all fairness the staff do try to listen to what members want and need. I am not sure if you notice Jared, but the staff does regularly put out a survey to get feedback and stay in touch with members. A lot of thought went into creating a model for it and we analyze what members say to us. I am happy for more suggestions on how we can improve communication but instead of saying 'there needs to be better communication' why not give some ideas on how it can be improved?

[theOperaGhost]

Ant...that is for a thread to come this weekend since it is off this topic. It will be toned down from my previous post but will have the came sentiment. I will address the surveys and how i view leadership and communication on this site. Now i dont know if my views are correct or comparable to anyone elses but i have the right to state them and offer suggestions...which i will. I look forward to it. Sorry for dragging this off topic and i request it to return to the original topic.

[Antares]

Finally this is getting somewhere! I just want to say my opinion on the definition of the word "staff". I honestly don't think that the moderators decide much anymore, so Ant when you say staff it implies that it is all of us making these decisions. I don't really know if I agree with that. But then again, how many huge decisions have to be made...not many.

Also, you said that the "staff" will get back to us with a decision, yaddy yaddy ya. Do you have a time range (I know that the seniors are busy and theres lots of stuff to get done and lots of stuff to be talked about and reviewed pertaining to this decision), or will we still be talking about this a year from now?

[Atonement]

How do we not allow promoting illegal activities but allow pictures of them happening? I am of the opinion that we simply take the median age (18 for most the world, 21 for USA) for drinking, and if they do not meet the requirements, we delete the picture. As for smoking, I believe we should take the age of 18 for that is the age for all of the countries (I believe) represented commonly here. This is not censorship as much as it is enforcing our own rules.

[Mzor203]

Alright, this seems to have gone a teensy bit overboard.

Jared, I love you, but honestly that wasn't a very nice response... a simple, 'Do the admins have any opinion on this?' probably would've sufficed.

Ant, thanks for letting us know that it is being thought about. It's totally understandable that you wouldn't want to come in and close the discussion prematurely. :)

And Addi, I'm glad that you agree somewhat, but I still think that the main point here is that young people are being exposed to this content, which just isn't fitting for a teen help site.

[Atonement]

I have no problem with the youngin's seeing it. Hell, they probably see it daily. But what I'm saying is if we are going to maintain the rule "no promoting illegal activies" we shouldn't allow the actions to be on public display.

[Eagle1]

i agree with the OP.

[Neverender]

Why do I keep using this picture? Anyways..
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2752/lad8ac25482963c0c0ac8c7hq5.jpg

Ok I'm sorry but no. That is not ok.

Thats what I said. It should be removed. My profile picture is the one that is Ok.

What exactly is wrong with it?

The harm in it? It promotes drug usage which is against site rules. I ask what the point is for permitting it is. Why post these kind of pictures? So people can say "oh look at me! I do drugs! I'm fucking awesome!!!" Theres no reason to allow it.

Exactly my point, Jared. Its simply not necissary to have pictures like that on a teen help site.

[The Joker]

Why do I keep using this picture? Anyways..
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/2752/lad8ac25482963c0c0ac8c7hq5.jpg



Thats what I said. It should be removed. My profile picture is the one that is Ok.





Exactly my point, Jared. Its simply not necissary to have pictures like that on a teen help site.

That pic is addicting. 0_o

Yes, I really don't understand this. Teens are influenced easily. If they weren't a lot of these forums wouldn't be up. Most people get into drugs at a young age because of an influence. That is someone showing themselves doing drugs, or saying drugs are cool. That influences people.

[Maverick]

Finally this is getting somewhere! I just want to say my opinion on the definition of the word "staff". I honestly don't think that the moderators decide much anymore, so Ant when you say staff it implies that it is all of us making these decisions. I don't really know if I agree with that. But then again, how many huge decisions have to be made...not many.

Also, you said that the "staff" will get back to us with a decision, yaddy yaddy ya. Do you have a time range (I know that the seniors are busy and theres lots of stuff to get done and lots of stuff to be talked about and reviewed pertaining to this decision), or will we still be talking about this a year from now?
No I don't have a time range. I don't have a crystal ball here that will tell me when staff members will be picked, when decisions will be made, or who will win the next election

[theOperaGhost]

Ant...theres no need for sarcasm...a simple answer would have been fine. People may not like the tone of my post but sarcasm really isnt better than a bunch of profanity.

[Antares]

No I don't have a time range. I don't have a crystal ball here that will tell me when staff members will be picked, when decisions will be made, or who will win the next election

I don't want to be...rude but I honestly don't....understand why it is so hard to put a time range over some things that can be so simple to do. A little gossip, a little chat, then announcement.

Anyways, ok, thanks for responding

[Maverick]

Ant...theres no need for sarcasm...a simple answer would have been fine. People may not like the tone of my post but sarcasm really isnt better than a bunch of profanity.
Sarcasm is part of my nature. Some people appreciate the humor but some might not. Either way you are not in a position to tell me what I can or cannot post. You are instructed to keep on topic of this thread.

[Zephyr]

I find the current policy fine as is. It's never been a problem in the past, and it doesn't seem to be a problem now. VT is an escape for most, if not all of the people on here, and I think that the more strict we get, the less people will like to come back here. And I also think that you can't police such content like alcohol and cigarette usage because there are members from many different countries that come to this website, and everywhere you go there are different ideas of what is acceptable and not acceptable.

Like here in Oregon, it's perfectly legal for an underage person to drink or smoke as long as it's on their parent's property. Rules even vary from state to state, so it's not a good idea to go around coming down on people for such pictures.

Simply put, if you don't like a picture that somebody has posted with alcohol and cigarette usage, nobody is making you look at it. If you don't like it, then don't look at it again and forget about it.

You can only make some of the people happy some of the time, not all of the people happy all of the time.

[theOperaGhost]

Why is promotion of drug use so strictly prohibited? Nobody is forced to read posts promoting drug use either, but it's still not allowed. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, well I say a picture depicting drug use is promotion of drug use, which is strictly prohibited. Either one rule or the other should be changed. It's quite a large discrepancy in the rules if you can't promote drugs in word, but you can in pictures.

[Atonement]

Why is promotion of drug use so strictly prohibited? Nobody is forced to read posts promoting drug use either, but it's still not allowed. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, well I say a picture depicting drug use is promotion of drug use, which is strictly prohibited. Either one rule or the other should be changed. It's quite a large discrepancy in the rules if you can't promote drugs in word, but you can in pictures.

Right on.

[Antares]

I agree. I feel like I am always taking the defensive on these types of posts :P

Pictures of drug usage are banned. Drugs are alcohol and cigarettes too. Why aren't they banned?
I say allow it all, or don't allow any.

[AllThatIsLeft]

I say this is getting way out of hand.
It isn't a problem from what i see.
I don't even see that many of those pictures, so i don't understand the 5 page fuss that has been going on about it.
It just isn't that important.

[Antares]

I say this is getting way out of hand.
It isn't a problem from what i see.
I don't even see that many of those pictures, so i don't understand the 5 page fuss that has been going on about it.
It just isn't that important.

Oh, I like your sig :P

I think that this has turned into 5 pages (3 pages for me :P) because it kinda touched on other subjects and people were going back and forth.

But even you said you saw the point that was being made.

[AllThatIsLeft]

I see the point, but at the same time it doesn't bother me.
I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

Picture or no picture, this site doesn't promote or discourage it.
It's neutral and it is how it should stay.

BTW thanks, i adore it :)

[Sapphire]

I fail to see the problem with drinking and smoking in photos and the rationale behind the request to ban them seems weak at best.

Photos showing use of illegal drugs have already been covered by the rules as Alex has shown us a number of times.

Some of you are talking as if we (the older members) were never impressionable 13 year olds which is clearly incorrect. We actually have a better grasp of the impressions our members get from things on this site because we have the advantage of being able to compare past and present.

Also, kids are more heavily influenced by the people they physically spend time with than a somewhere like this. Being a member on here and seeing posts/pictures of people who drink is less likely to affect them than hanging out with friends who are underage drinkers.

But I will state once more, this.

Self harm is not illegal as far as I'm aware. To the majority of this site, smoking and consuming alcohol is.

Self harm is not addictive. Not in the sense that cigarettes are. Aside form that, there is a point at which you can constantly self harm without inflicting serious damage on your body, while every time you smoke a cigarette, you are doing damage to your lungs, to your brain, and to your body as a whole.

Self harm will not cause you to drive in an impaired manner. It will not change your reasoning in the way alcohol will, and it will not impair all judgement for most.

Yet we don't allow it. There was a picture of some scars someone had a while ago, and it wasn't even used in a self-harm promoting way. No, it was simply a photograph meant to look artistic, and yet it was deleted on sight. And you still allow pictures of alcohol and cigarettes, which are illegal and have the potential to cause tons of damage to your body, and in the case of alcohol, to others around you, which self harm cannot do.

I come to VT because it's a place that I see as actually sensible. But more and more I am seeing it become less appropriate. We have 13-year-olds here for heaven's sake!

VT should be a place that promotes healthy growth. A place which helps people get better. People in a true psychiatric ward don't have to go through their days seeing images of people smoking and drinking, do they? It would be nice if VT could live up to its name, and uphold a higher standard.Ok, this post has made me very angry. I can tell you as an ex-self harmer that pictures of cuts and scars are triggering. If a self harmer stumbles across a photo of someone's cuts then that is very powerful and actually is more than many of us can take. This site provides a safe space where people won't get triggered to cause themselves harm.

With smoking and drinking, however, it is very different. An image of someone having a drink while being underage is not alien or triggering to people. Neither is an image of someone smoking a cigarette.

Children's films have people smoking in them. Children's films have people drinking in them. We can't patronise everyone here by putting them on a platform lower than 8 year old children simply because you think that smoking and drinking have no place here.

Teens need to be protected but they also need to let make their own mistakes. It is not my job, the admins job, your job to try and stop this. You learn by your mistakes. You grow from it. Can not wrap people in cotton wool. We live in free societies where we can make mistakes. Introduce this and VT is on a nasty road down.Completely agree!

I find the current policy fine as is. It's never been a problem in the past, and it doesn't seem to be a problem now. VT is an escape for most, if not all of the people on here, and I think that the more strict we get, the less people will like to come back here. And I also think that you can't police such content like alcohol and cigarette usage because there are members from many different countries that come to this website, and everywhere you go there are different ideas of what is acceptable and not acceptable.

Like here in Oregon, it's perfectly legal for an underage person to drink or smoke as long as it's on their parent's property. Rules even vary from state to state, so it's not a good idea to go around coming down on people for such pictures.

Simply put, if you don't like a picture that somebody has posted with alcohol and cigarette usage, nobody is making you look at it. If you don't like it, then don't look at it again and forget about it.

You can only make some of the people happy some of the time, not all of the people happy all of the time.
Very well put!

[theOperaGhost]

Now again i ask...why prohibit the promotion of drugs in the first place since it seems everyone thinks THAT is perfectly fine. Keep the rules consistent! And yes sapphire...pictures of drug use or alcohol use can trigger a drug addict or an alcoholic jus like a picture of a scar can for a cutter...dont tell me there arent minors who arent already alcoholics either...i know plenty. pictures promote drug use which is "strictly prohibited!"

[Sapphire]

Illegal drugs are illegal for everyone here.
Alcohol and cigarettes are legal for a number of us.
That is the difference between them and it has been stated before.

Photos of people who have drinking with the beverages shown in the photo are not very frequent to my knowledge. So if we have an alcoholic on here then they are hardly likely to run into one on the public forums.

Photo albums are places to tread carefully anyway because you have no idea what the member has uploaded in there and some people are sensitive to things they don't like seeing that aren't actually against the rules.

Also, as I said before, there are films that are suitable for 8 year old children that contain drinking and smoking in them. Do we really want to reduce this site (which is for over 13's) to a level below these films?

[Mzor203]

I fail to see how exactly a picture of smoking can't cause a trigger to someone who has broken a smoking habit. Smoking is incredibly addicting, and the urges to go back and have more continue far past when you quit. Some pictures of other people your age smoking and looking cool while doing it are going to do exactly the same thing as a picture of self-harm is to a past self-harmer.

You use yourself as an example, but have you ever been addicted badly to cigarettes or alcohol? And y this I mean actually addicted. Because I'm thinking not.

And no, drugs aren't illegal for everyone. There are most likely parts of the world where they are legal, Amsterdam being an example.

[Sapphire]

I've had a number of other addictions and one of my friends was in fact an alcoholic so I know a thing or two about addictions, thank you Rex.

[AllThatIsLeft]

so let's inforce this point.

Why prohibit something that is allowed on PG13 movies, to people 13-21 as we have in this site.

Somehow i don't see the need.

[Antares]

To Paula, their parents choose if they can see that movie. On here, thats not really...true.

But umm, I just want to ask Carole.
She said that seeing pictures of cuts triggers her or affects her in some way. If you are an ex alcoholic, or cigarette smoker, can't that affect you if you saw a picture of it?

I mean, its the same principle.

[AllThatIsLeft]

To Paula, their parents choose if they can see that movie. On here, thats not really...true.



come on John, you know that's poor statement.
i see kids 10 year olds watching R rated movies.
a picture doesnt compare to a movie at all.

[Mzor203]

I've had a number of other addictions and one of my friends was in fact an alcoholic so I know a thing or two about addictions, thank you Rex.

Then you should know that, though self-harm is a particularly nasty addiction, it's not different in this respect to other addictions. Maybe on a case-by-case basis, but so would the same be said for other addictions, on a case-by-case basis.

[AllThatIsLeft]

well Rex maybe it isnt. and she would know better than you.

[Tiberius]

I still don't understand that if we have established the fact that promoting the usage of drugs, and that includes pictures of smoking, drinking etc. , then why are we still arguing about it? I mean, sure there comes a point when sometimes there is too much and/or too little censorship of the above-mentioned topics, but Steph, Ant and most of the of the staff, from what I can see, seem to be in concurrence that the policy is still applicable. Jared, I completely agree with you and think that you have a phenomenal idea and that things have been a little menial when it comes to the pertinence of the application of the rules on this subject. I think the "cool" factor comes into play when seeing a picture of a person that a teen might look up to committing illegal acts and then consign their fate to alcohol and/or drugs. Sure, this possibility is one that can be contested but it is a tried and true theory because teens, by nature, are so impressionable . Now, I'm going to stop before I touch upon too many things, but you all know where my opinion(s) stand.

[Sapphire]

My statement about photos of smoking not triggering stands.
Alcoholism may be case-by-case but I have seen an alcoholic recover first hand without being triggered by a simple photo of someone else drinking.

Out of my addictions, only one is affected by photos - and that would be the self harm.

Either way, I stand by this:
Photos of people who have drinking with the beverages shown in the photo are not very frequent to my knowledge. So if we have an alcoholic on here then they are hardly likely to run into one on the public forums.

Photo albums are places to tread carefully anyway because you have no idea what the member has uploaded in there and some people are sensitive to things they don't like seeing that aren't actually against the rules.

Also, as I said before, there are films that are suitable for 8 year old children that contain drinking and smoking in them. Do we really want to reduce this site (which is for over 13's) to a level below these films?

[Antares]

Well people keep saying that these photos are rare. I don't think they are as rare as they seem.

I mean, would people really be bothered if we did ban them. Do any of you people that do drink smoke etc. actually feel...infringed if we banned it eventhough you don't post them...it seems like the only people that would care are the people that post them and I don't think anyone has responded.

To Paula, maybe we should give our site a rating. PG-13. Parental Guidence probably is needed with the exchanges that occur here. lol :P hehe

To Chris, I can't remember exactly what staff members posted but I think the admins were the only two that were actually against it. But I can't remember which other mods replied.

[Tiberius]

John, I've seen that you, Bobby, and Addie have all posted things similar stating that you think that it should be banned. And to address your second paragraph, I as a person who occasionally will smoke some pot or something(yes, shocking) think that it's perfectly okay that it be banned, it's not like it's a big deal anyways.

[Sapphire]

Well people keep saying that these photos are rare. I don't think they are as rare as they seem.

I mean, would people really be bothered if we did ban them. Do any of you people that do drink smoke etc. actually feel...infringed if we banned it eventhough you don't post them...it seems like the only people that would care are the people that post them and I don't think anyone has responded.I would care because it is a patronising rule with a weak rationale behind it.
Why should I be restricted with regards to photos of me drinking when I am legal to drink in pubs?
Teenagers are allowed a single alcoholic drink (beer, wine or cider) with a meal in a restaurant/pub from the age of 16 here in the UK anyway.
So by restricting these photos a larger proportion of our member-base will be affected even when they are legally allowed to be drinking.

Also, you were saying in the thread Jared created that we are over-moderated. How can you say that and then come here and sincerely argue for yet another rule?
Make up your mind as to whether you want more or less rules!

[Antares]

I would care because it is a patronising rule with a weak rationale behind it.
Why should I be restricted with regards to photos of me drinking when I am legal to drink in pubs?
Teenagers are allowed a single alcoholic drink (beer, wine or cider) with a meal in a restaurant/pub from the age of 16 here in the UK anyway.
So by restricting these photos a larger proportion of our member-base will be affected even when they are legally allowed to be drinking.

Also, you were saying in the thread Jared created that we are over-moderated. How can you say that and then come here and sincerely argue for yet another rule?
Make up your mind as to whether you want more or less rules!

Whoa whoa, ok. It seems like again you are putting words in peoples mouth. I never said that I thought the forums are over-moderated. All I simply did was gave out a figure. So please don't do that because it's annoying.

In regards to the top part, why would you want to subject young kids to these pictures anyways? Okay, so it's allowed for certain people but why would you want to share these pictures when you know that it may affect certain people

[Sapphire]

in response to Jared's claim about over-moderation, there is some truth to it. In fact, about...40-45 percent of people responded to that survey I made a couple months ago, and said the forums were over-moderated.I got the impression from this that you were in agreement with it especially as it felt that the stats were secondary to the statement "there is some truth to it". But I guess it's my bad for misinterpreting.

In regards to the top part, why would you want to subject young kids to these pictures anyways? Okay, so it's allowed for certain people but why would you want to share these pictures when you know that it may affect certain people
Young kids are exposed to them anyway so having them on here isn't doing them any great injustice. Especially when they see a lot worse on the TV and in films.