9/11 a conspiracy?

[lamboman43]

Do any of you actually believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy? Do you actually believe our own United States government would kill it's own people? I know Bush wasn't the BEST president but do you actually think he ordered the WTC to be destroyed?

I would think not. The US government would never kill their own people. And most governments wouldn't either.

[Perseus]

No, people are just blinded by ignorance are just want to believe different things and blame the government for everything.

And whoa, I was just thinking about creating a thread about this.

[lamboman43]

No, people are just blinded by ignorance are just want to believe different things and blame the government for everything.

And whoa, I was just thinking about creating a thread about this.

Great minds think alike!:D:D:D

[punkjake]

no that is just crazy! Because if someone had PROFF the goverment,Bush,and America would be fucked

[Perseus]

no that is just crazy cracka!Because if someone had PROFF he goverment,bush,and America would be fucked like whore XD

What the fuck did you just say? I had no idea what you just typed.

[punkjake]

What the fuck did you just say? I had no idea what you just typed.

happy betch?

[Rutherford The Brave]

Post nine eleven anxiety lead to this mindset

[Iron Man]

absolutely not. 9/11 was committed by a group of barbarians called "Al-Queda".

[Perseus]

happy betch?

I'm sorry for wanting to read English, not you're shitty "txt tlk"

[MoveAlong]

NO. Anybody who thinks that the Holocaust or 911 is a conspiracy is just stupid.

[punkjake]

I'm sorry for wanting to read English, not you're shitty "txt tlk"

you want me to talk english then fine,don't be so mean:EDIT:yes i did edted because it wasn't apporpite

[Whisper]

No it was not fake America wouldn't slaughter 3thousand of its own citizens
the first broken arrow was over Canada they dropped it on us to ensure it wouldn't damage US territory

Kill others, topple democratically elected leaders install and prop up dictators ignore horrible human rights violations etc.... oh hell ya

But they wouldn't slaughter there own


Was it handled well? No not at all but dear god it was Bush at the helm what do you expect, i mean good thing you didn't democratically elect him.....twice.

Anywaaay

e-6oYXAcrFg&feature=related ...ya no not a conspiracy, what it was is our generations Pearl Harbor

[Neverender]

you want me to talk english then fine,go fuck yourself!And yes it is just crazy to think they did that

Stop argueing. Play nice. You'll get in troble.





and jesus no. 9/11 a conspiracy my ass. it became conspiracy because everyone hated bush, and they needed someone they could actually find to be responsible, not some old billionaire nutcase living in a mountain in afghanistan. and as for the bombs? Scrap that idea too.

[pkid]

OK then, why in the world was the hole in the Pentagon way smaller than the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon? and why was the hole sort of a circular hole when a plane has wings?

[Sage]

OK then, why in the world was the hole in the Pentagon way smaller than the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon? and why was the hole sort of a circular hole when a plane has wings?

Planes are big, yes, but they are made in pieces and pieces can break. Strip off the wings and a plane is pretty narrow. A circular hole probably formed because pieces of the building were left too devastated by the initial hit to remain in place.

[Zephyr]

you want me to talk english then fine,go fuck yourself!And yes it is just crazy to think they did that


DaTrooper: If you don't like the way somebody types, deal with it.
phnkjake: And likewise, you didn't have to tell him to go fuck himself.
BOTH of you, no fighting or cussing at each other publicly.
Mmkay?

[redcar]

Conspiracy is not the word I would use. I do not believe Bush 'ordered' the attacks because that is just ridiuculous.

However I do believe that there are a lot of things that don't add up. There is a lot of stuff that the public haven't been told.

[Bluearmy]

For someone to think that 9/11 was some sort of conspiracy is absoutly ridiculus!

1.) it's not effective to go blow up some of your own buildings, then go and declare war on terrorism and spend a bottomless trillions of dollars.

2.) Why would the U.S government need to do something like that? They could have done something way less drastic to spark a war.

3.) And I agree with most here, the only reason something like this was even thought up, was to pin something on Bush, or just to have someone within to blame.

FACT: Islamic Terrorists used Commerical Airplanes to commit a suicide attack on the United States. They killed Americans. Not the American government.

[Requin]

People should listen to Alex more really. :P

The fact that they could of ordered that is amazingly ridiculous. The kind of people who create conspiracy theories are dudes like this:
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2007/291/south_park_wow488_embed.jpg

Things about that event are strange. But the enemy you (We?) are fighting are a strange enemy. This is probably one of the first 'wars' that your fighting an enemy you can't see.
And that's always a problem.

[lamboman43]

I cant believe someone actually believes that 9/11 was a conspiricy! Poor kid.

[ManyPearTree]

I doubt that 9/11 would be able to remain inconspicous for almost nine years without it being leaked from our terrible government .

Crap I clicked yes :(



Phnkjake: And likewise, you didn't have to tell him to go fuck himself.

Lol, you sound like my mom but in a good and more specific way :D

[Mind forte]

I used to think that it was all retarded until this video that got me thinking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRuoL0UYG-Y&feature=channel_page
Now I don't think it's true, I'm just saying it's a possibility. You should put a maybe in the poll.

[pkid]

Planes are big, yes, but they are made in pieces and pieces can break. Strip off the wings and a plane is pretty narrow. A circular hole probably formed because pieces of the building were left too devastated by the initial hit to remain in place.

Let's say that's real. Where in the world did the wings go? And why did the pentagon take the video tape that a gas station had of the "accident"?

[lamboman43]

Let's say that's real. Where in the world did the wings go? And why did the pentagon take the video tape that a gas station had of the "accident"?

Becuase it showed the plane going into the building:P

I used to think that it was all retarded until this video that got me thinking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRuoL...e=channel_page
Now I don't think it's true, I'm just saying it's a possibility. You should put a maybe in the poll.
But do you relly think that Bush would waste over a trillion dollars on a war that Al-Queda Didn't start? I hope not because no one is that stupid to waste so much money.


2 People who actually believe 9/11 was a conspiricy. Either they hard hard left Democrats or I dont know.

[lamboman43]

Could you just delete this post? It's worthless right now.

[Mind forte]

But do you relly think that Bush would waste over a trillion dollars on a war that Al-Queda Didn't start? I hope not because no one is that stupid to waste so much money.
It does seem stupid, I agree, but it hasn't reached over a trillion dollars yet, show your source to prove otherwise.
Here's mine: http://costofwar.com/



2 People who actually believe 9/11 was a conspiricy. Either they hard hard left Democrats or I dont know.
1. Was that directed towards me?
2. If so, how does that make me a democrat?

[lamboman43]

It does seem stupid, I agree, but it hasn't reached over a trillion dollars yet, show your source to prove otherwise.
Here's mine: http://costofwar.com/




1. Was that directed towards me?
2. If so, how does that make me a democrat?

No it wasn't directed at you. But I think the only reason people would think 9/11 was a conspiricy was if they hated Bush. I understand some Republicans didn't like him but the mojority of hate came from Democrats and people who hate wars.

BTW thats a cool little website.

[Mind forte]

No it wasn't directed at you. But I think the only reason people would think 9/11 was a conspiricy was if they hated Bush. I understand some Republicans didn't like him but the mojority of hate came from Democrats and people who hate wars.

BTW thats a cool little website.
That's not why people believe in the conspiracy at all. The people believe in the new world order, which I haven't decided my complete views on yet.
This full movie shows you who the believers are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
These are the people that believe it wasn't planned by the government, but by a secret elite of people controlling our government. I suggest you watch it.

[pkid]

Becuase it showed the plane going into the building:P


But do you relly think that Bush would waste over a trillion dollars on a war that Al-Queda Didn't start? I hope not because no one is that stupid to waste so much money.


2 People who actually believe 9/11 was a conspiricy. Either they hard hard left Democrats or I dont know.

ok first of all the pentagon only showed their version of the crash, and the videotape wasnt even clear... and it was Bush's fault of the war... Bush went to the other country and just invaded it because he thought there was going to be a nuclear weapon there but then there wasnt, so some believe that Bush did the 9/11 thing so that there would be a reason to go back to war

[lamboman43]

ok first of all the pentagon only showed their version of the crash, and the videotape wasnt even clear... and it was Bush's fault of the war... Bush went to the other country and just invaded it because he thought there was going to be a nuclear weapon there but then there wasnt, so some believe that Bush did the 9/11 thing so that there would be a reason to go back to war

What you expect a leader of a country to let terrorists invade and kill there people? Of course not. They will go to war with the invading party. Or atleast a smart leader would. Ya you heard that, I called Bush smart.

And you are getting the Iraq war messed up too. Bush invaded IRAQ because he thought there were weapons there.

[punkjake]

Stop argueing. Play nice. You'll get in troble.





and jesus no. 9/11 a conspiracy my ass. it became conspiracy because everyone hated bush, and they needed someone they could actually find to be responsible, not some old billionaire nutcase living in a mountain in afghanistan. and as for the bombs? Scrap that idea too.

Sorry:'(

[punkjake]

I'm sorry for wanting to read English, not you're shitty "txt tlk"

sorry for what i said

[Ripplemagne]

Zeitgeist and Loose Change are pathetic. But I'm not going to explain why. Instead, I'll let Maddox explain why:

There is no 9/11 conspiracy, you morons. (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons)

Make sure to read the "further reading" at the bottom as well.

I win.

[Camazotz]

I firmly believe that the conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks are completely false. These theories originated because of paranoia that our government is too powerful.

[Sugaree]

September 11th was NOT a consipracy by the government of the United States. On 9/11, we were caught when we were most vulnerable. We were unsuspecting of any kind of attack on our soil, but we had a fair amount of warnings since the Clinton administration. Yet we did nothing to advance our security or even make it a top priority to track down bin Laden and al-Qauida. If we did, there might have been a chance we could have stopped it all from happening, but maybe not.

From what I have seen, on that day and years after, I can firmly say that anyone who believes that their own GOVERNMENT would do such a thing as slaughter over one thousand of its own people is a person who will believe anything they are told. There is a huge difference between a conspiracy and post-9/11 paranoia. To say that 9/11 was a conspiracy is wrong, because Bush wouldn't have let it happen. I have never supported Bush, but for the people who did, they were right in doing so. I mean, if you can't even trust your own president, then there really is something wrong with the country.

As I said, I never supported Bush while he was in office, but I always wanted him to do what hee thought was right. And that's all you can ever ask of a president. Albeit, he never made the best choices if you ask me, but he did what he thought was right, and that's all he could do. the only problem with this war on terrorism, is that we can't fight an enemy that hides in caves and mountains. If we can't see them, then how do we fight them? Terrorism will last until the end of time, no matter if its driving planes into buildings or something less or more.

If 9/11 was a conspiracy, then we'd have a pretty fucked up existence as a people to believe that. The people who start these theories, are nothing but a bunch of melvins living in their mother's basement looking for something to do. I almost lost a family friend in 9/11. He was in the Pentagon, in the same area, that the plane hit. He lived miraculously, and still can not believe that.

The reason that the hole (more like a gash) in the Pentagon was smaller than the plane that hit it, is because the wings broke off. Take the wings off a plane and you get nothing more than the fuselage. The reason we couldn't find the wings, is that they had to have desintagrated after the force of the impact. They hit the building goin a few hundered miles an hour, so the force had a big role in this.

The other main theory is that jet fuel does burn hot enough to melt steel. This is a perfect theory to fit in with the WTC. The WTC towers were made out of stell and concrete. WE all know that the concrete would break apart easily if it was hit by something as big as a plane crashing into it at some 300 or 400 mph with a a couple hundred gallons of jet fuel. True, jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel, but if it was left to burn long enough, it can critically damage whatever is nearby, in this case, the steel pillars, insulation, office furnishings, carpeting and anything else that was able to burn.

The towers collapsed because of the structural damage. If a building is hit by a plane, especially a big building, we all know that it will go down. But, there is one instance where that didn't happen. Early in the 20th century, I believe it was 1935, a bi-plane had crashed into the Empire State Building. Of course, we all know that the ESB is still standing, but why not the trade towers? Because they were hit with 747s, and those are fucking huge planes. With all the jet fuel and other burnable objects, along with the crumbling support beams, it was inevitable that everyone in the towers that were above the 50th or 55th floor (in both towers) was not going to make it out alive. When the towers collapsed, they didn't just take down the buildings, but people, thousands of them. Firefighters, police officers, office workers and more were all taken down with it and killed.

Now, if someone who believes that the events of September 11th, 2001 was a conspiracy by our government to kill its own people and start a war and military spending increases is, in my opinion, a person who truly needs to open their eyes and not believe everything that others say and learn the facts of what happened on that fateful Tuesday morning.

[pkid]

What you expect a leader of a country to let terrorists invade and kill there people? Of course not. They will go to war with the invading party. Or atleast a smart leader would. Ya you heard that, I called Bush smart.

And you are getting the Iraq war messed up too. Bush invaded IRAQ because he thought there were weapons there.

yea weapons..of mass destruction...anyways my point is that the 9/11 was made so that there was a reason to continue invading the terrorist country

[Whisper]

Seriously since when have you needed a ligit reason to go to war anyway
why start now

[pkid]

Seriously since when have you needed a ligit reason to go to war anyway
why start now

well theres always a reason for war...and just remember bush was getting really beat up by the americans and even other countries..so he had to do something..

[Whisper]

and the first thing to come to mind before he even mentioned anything about war with the middle east before the world hated him at all in anyway (he was really liked then actually if not he wouldn't have one office) he decided fuck it i wanna kill me some terrrorists so in order for congress to allow me i'm going to orchestrate a huge conspiracy and slaughter thousands of civilians killing not only Americans but citizens of over 80 other countries as well

I mean thats a rational plan A now isn't it.....

[pkid]

and the first thing to come to mind before he even mentioned anything about war with the middle east before the world hated him at all in anyway (he was really liked then actually if not he wouldn't have one office) he decided fuck it i wanna kill me some terrrorists so in order for congress to allow me i'm going to orchestrate a huge conspiracy and slaughter thousands of civilians killing not only Americans but citizens of over 80 other countries as well

I mean thats a rational plan A now isn't it.....

i get your point, but there were also many reasons why he did what he did..continuing the war was just one of them

[Perseus]

Pkid, you do realize that America was not the only one to believe there were WOMDs? U.N. believed there were WOMDs in Iraq, but never acted on it. We did.
And what do you mean "continuing the war?"

[Sugaree]

By "continuing the war", pkid means that Bush Junior wanted to continue the war his father, Bush Senior, started almost a decade earlier. Saying that Bush 2 wanted to go to war only to continue the war Bush 1 started is completely true. Bush 2 thought that he could capture not only Saddam Hussein but also Osama bin Laden. Of course, we captured Hussein, but have yet to find eye or ear of bin Laden. As I said, how can you fight an enemy you can't see?

[Sage]

As I said, how can you fight an enemy you can't see?

Carpet bombing. Biological warfare. Nukes. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[Perseus]

Pkid probably doesn't even know why the Gulf War was even satrted. He's just trying to find another eason to show that it is a conspiracy.
pkid, I know why the Gulf War was started, but do you?

[ManyPearTree]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjnMsiKuGXM

Some People have a grudge against bush..

[Sugaree]

@Armageddon - So what, the entire world does, so why does it matter to post a youtube link? There are so many "I Hate Bush" videos on the internet that it's nothing more than hilarious that these people are allowed to live.

[Rutherford The Brave]

The worst kind of bomb George bush was capable of launching was a bug bomb. Too bad we are still wasting man power over in the lost case zone.

[coodood]

Do you guys really think that Bush would cause the deaths of so many Americans..... I mean besides the pointless war.

[Sugaree]

Other than the war, no, I don't think Bush would be as dumb as to sacrifice his fellow country men.

[ManyPearTree]

@Armageddon - So what, the entire world does, so why does it matter to post a youtube link? There are so many "I Hate Bush" videos on the internet that it's nothing more than hilarious that these people are allowed to live.


I meant that some people have a negative view of America partially due to him.

[Sugaree]

Of course, because we were dumb enough to give him 8 years in office when we should have stopped at 4.

[Ripplemagne]

It amuses me that most people hate Bush and don't even know why.

[Φρανκομβριτ]

I cant believe someone actually believes that 9/11 was a conspiricy! Poor kid.

Millions of people do.

There's nothing wrong with people's beliefs, if they don't get in the way of other people's freedom.

I personally do not think all the pieces fit.

[boy.on.laptop]

And most governments wouldn't either.

Wrong you look at any government in history and I will guarrantee you they have helped led to the death of their citizens perhaps not directly as is accused in this case but in many other ways some examples:
British Islands in the Indian oceans, Britian would go to war against Argetina to 'protect' it citizens in the falklands but not to war against protecting its citizens against American naval bases, the former white, the latter black.
America stood plainly by while the Soviet Union killed many of its citizens in the 1930's for 2 reasons: they saw them as undesirables and did not want to hurt trade between the two nations.

I am still not sure about 9/11, but I would challenge anyone who denied Bush did not gain from it directly, a surge in support to a very very unpopular president both by allowing him to show himself as the 'protector' of the States and by keeping oil prices low for American Gas guzzlers.

[boy.on.laptop]

It amuses me that most people hate Bush and don't even know why.

Actually I know why:

1) He was a far-right nutcase who made America's rich richer at the expense of the poor
2) Did nothing for America's health care system
3) Started 2 unjust wars
4) Furthered the way to global warming, while withdrawing American commitments to it.
5) Made christians look intolerant and ignorant.

[Djonemore]

This full movie shows you who the believers are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
These are the people that believe it wasn't planned by the government, but by a secret elite of people controlling our government. I suggest you watch it.

I watched the whole movie... That is some extreme stuff. Opened my eyes right up! Unbelievable really..

[Reality]

No.. I don't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy, I don't think former U.S. President Bush would organise for suicidal people to fly two planes into the WTC. That's stupid.

But, however, I don't believe in the official story either. (The one released to the public). Bush was warned about an attack on the United States early in his term, and chose not to take it seriously.

Also, it's suspicious that fighter jets weren't scrambled from the nearest Air Force base, but from one slightly more further away.

I believe, whether it was due to incompetance or whatever, that Bush and the U.S. Government let those attacks happen, and made a shit effort to stop it. I also think it's odd that Iraq was more important to the Bush Administration than Afghanistan (where Bin Ladin supposedly is/was), as they put more effort into that.

[Project Delta]

I think it was but i dont want to vote

[Spin]

I really don't think the government was behind the 9/11 attacks, I think they could've done more to prevent it and I think there's something we're not being told, but I don't think they were fully behind it. I won't completely reject the idea though because the government can be pretty corrupt. Bush isn't smart enough to pull off something like that and keep it a secret though so that's another reason why the government couldn't be behind it.

[Reality]

If the U.S. Government did do it, I doubt it would be discovered by a group of bored teenage conspiracy theorists at a University or at their parents house.

I tend to side on the Americans in issues like these, because there seems to be a conspiracy theory for any tragedy or achievement they make, although I do think Pearl Harbor was a similar scenario to what I think of 9/11 (not acting on given information).

But things like the 1969 Moon Landings. Everyone has a (debunked) theory on that, yet I've never seen anyone make conspiracy theories Yuri Gagarin's first flight into space in the 1950's, or the launching of Sputnik, both by the ol' USSR.

[Ripplemagne]

Actually I know why:

1) He was a far-right nutcase who made America's rich richer at the expense of the poor
2) Did nothing for America's health care system
3) Started 2 unjust wars
4) Furthered the way to global warming, while withdrawing American commitments to it.
5) Made christians look intolerant and ignorant.

Haha. At least you're able to illustrate some kind of foundation; most people can't even do that.

[James18]

I'm relieved to see a strong majority rejecting the idea. Being zealous politically can be a very bad thing. From the right we see things wishes for President Obama's assassination, while we get this crap from the left. Extremism in any political form has no place in a modern society.

[junkie]

Do any of you actually believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy? Do you actually believe our own United States government would kill it's own people? I know Bush wasn't the BEST president but do you actually think he ordered the WTC to be destroyed?

I would think not. The US government would never kill their own people. And most governments wouldn't either.

first,am not conspiracy theorist...... so if you are reading this try to be open-minded and follow the evidence wherever it might lead.

do you really think that the US government give a flying **** about you?
none of us really matter to them.For example everyone knows what happened to the poor people after hurricane Katrina and Rita.
I believe that 9/11 was an inside job.another example >>>>Operation Northwoods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods)
Take a look at these links and( please watch them all before jumping into conclusions)and i've read and viewed them all.
9/11 Coincidences (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odp1FO0Vmuw)
here is an interesting book about 9/11
WhyIndeedDidtheWorldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf (http://rapidshare.com/files/258934032/WhyIndeedDidtheWorldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf.html)

The 9/11 Chronicles: Part One, Truth Rising (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-yscpNIxjI&feature=fvst)

Fabled Enemies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28tE0fKpISM)
police officers know it's and inside job firemen it's an inside job but nobody hear this on the night news.

How much more evidence do we need before the government and mainstream media finally talks about this issue? By ignoring this issue, the government and media are just insulting our intelligence.

so stop living in denial.

[scuba steve]

Do any of you actually believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy? Do you actually believe our own United States government would kill it's own people? I know Bush wasn't the BEST president but do you actually think he ordered the WTC to be destroyed?

I would think not. The US government would never kill their own people. And most governments wouldn't either.

well not my us government, but still i don't believe even bush would do something that bad and if he did it would've most likely leaked and bush would be fried to a simple stick (yes a pun was intended)

it's probably just some nerds who first published the idea on their my space or some crap and now there's a whole bloody clan of them, sorry but i am stubborn like that

[Perseus]

first,am not conspiracy theorist...... so if you are reading this try to be open-minded and follow the evidence wherever it might lead.

do you really think that the US government give a flying **** about you?
none of us really matter to them.For example everyone knows what happened to the poor people after hurricane Katrina and Rita.
I believe that 9/11 was an inside job.another example >>>>Operation Northwoods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods)
Take a look at these links and( please watch them all before jumping into conclusions)and i've read and viewed them all.
9/11 Coincidences (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odp1FO0Vmuw)
here is an interesting book about 9/11
WhyIndeedDidtheWorldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf (http://rapidshare.com/files/258934032/WhyIndeedDidtheWorldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf.html)

The 9/11 Chronicles: Part One, Truth Rising (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-yscpNIxjI&feature=fvst)

Fabled Enemies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28tE0fKpISM)
police officers know it's and inside job firemen it's an inside job but nobody hear this on the night news.

How much more evidence do we need before the government and mainstream media finally talks about this issue? By ignoring this issue, the government and media are just insulting our intelligence.

so stop living in denial.

Dude, Youtube and wikipedia are not reliable evidence of a conspiracy.
I could go make a YouTube video of how about Jupiter has over 9,000 moons. Nothing would happen to the video except be de-rated. I am gonna watch the videos; but honestly, it's not evidence.

[SlappyTwinkle]

i don't believe that Bush ordered the WTC to be destroyed, i do however believe that he and the whole defense department knew it was coming and they did nothing to stop it. for instance, the investigators found traces of metal found in the explosives commonly used in demolition equipment, if you watch footage of the whole incident, you can see small explosions on floors lower than the crash sites, and the buildings imploded. now anyone with any common sense knows that if a force is moving parallel, anything it hits will eventually fall in the direction the force was moving, this however, did not happen with the towers, they imploded, and in a fairly quick manner too, quicker than they should have if the did not fall over from the initial crash.

[Dreaming Cannibal]

i think that a president would kill his own people for his own personal gain. The president my country has does it so why not bush?

[junkie]

i think that a president would kill his own people for his own personal gain. The president my country has does it so why not bush?
what's your country?

[JackOfClubs]

No it is not a conspiracy. Just like the Moon Landing thing. Why would the American Government (no matter how bad it was at the time) kill its own people. It annoys me SO much when people think things like this. *No offense intended*

[SlappyTwinkle]

No it is not a conspiracy. Just like the Moon Landing thing. Why would the American Government (no matter how bad it was at the time) kill its own people. It annoys me SO much when people think things like this. *No offense intended*

Now, I'm not saying you would but, some people would commit crimes like that, simply for there own personal gain.

[scuba steve]

No it is not a conspiracy. Just like the Moon Landing thing. Why would the American Government (no matter how bad it was at the time) kill its own people. It annoys me SO much when people think things like this. *No offense intended*

well to be honest there is a good chance the moon landing was faked. no one was harmed it was simply a plot to thwart Russia during the cold war in the race to the moon.

[The Batman]

I use to think that all 9/11 conspiracies were a joke but i watched a film about it and it sorta raised questions. A lot of it doesn't really add up and there are a few inconsistencies in the story but I don't believe that Bush had anything to do with it. I'm not saying it was a conspiracy but I'm not saying it wasn't either.

[Camazotz]

first,am not conspiracy theorist...... so if you are reading this try to be open-minded and follow the evidence wherever it might lead.

do you really think that the US government give a flying **** about you?
none of us really matter to them.For example everyone knows what happened to the poor people after hurricane Katrina and Rita.
I believe that 9/11 was an inside job.another example >>>>Operation Northwoods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods)
Take a look at these links and( please watch them all before jumping into conclusions)and i've read and viewed them all.
9/11 Coincidences (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odp1FO0Vmuw)
here is an interesting book about 9/11
WhyIndeedDidtheWorldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf (http://rapidshare.com/files/258934032/WhyIndeedDidtheWorldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf.html)

The 9/11 Chronicles: Part One, Truth Rising (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-yscpNIxjI&feature=fvst)

Fabled Enemies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28tE0fKpISM)
police officers know it's and inside job firemen it's an inside job but nobody hear this on the night news.

How much more evidence do we need before the government and mainstream media finally talks about this issue? By ignoring this issue, the government and media are just insulting our intelligence.

so stop living in denial.

I've never met someone so ignorant and so hating towards our country. I know people who have lost their family in 9/11. What you're implying is sick and insulting to their loved ones. I've seen the Chronicles; they disturb me beyond belief. Their aggressiveness towards our political leaders are disturbing. I've seen interviews with firemen and most of them say it was not an inside job. What you're showing is not evidence; it is conspiracy nuts that believe our government is willing to kill thousands of Americans so they (the government) had an excuse to go to war.

[Church]

It wasn't a conspiracy, Al Quada attacked us, that's why if I'm were still in the war when I'm 18, I'm joining the Marines and hopefully I get to kill those son of a bitches.

[scuba steve]

the war in iraq's ending within the next year, go for afghanastans infamous helmand province mate

[junkie]

I've never met someone so ignorant and so hating towards our country. I know people who have lost their family in 9/11. What you're implying is sick and insulting to their loved ones. I've seen the Chronicles; they disturb me beyond belief. Their aggressiveness towards our political leaders are disturbing. I've seen interviews with firemen and most of them say it was not an inside job. What you're showing is not evidence; it is conspiracy nuts that believe our government is willing to kill thousands of Americans so they (the government) had an excuse to go to war.

dude,MAN UP.
am not an ignorant and i don't hate the US in fact am in the process of getting my green card coz i want to live in the US.
i don't hate you this is my personal opinion and i just speak my mind!!
i don't hate the American people.
i hate the government because they killed millions of people(vitnaim,iraq,korea........and the list goes on and on)
so chillax bro
peace out.

[rubidoux]

I remember when that stupid "Loose Change" video came out and all these people were freaking out over it, I found this website that went through and broke down the entire video, explaining why the entire "conspiracy" they depicted was not only ridiculous, but completely wrong. It was actually really interesting and I read the entire guide despite how long it was. The guy went so far as to research airplane engine mechanics to disprove the theory that the plane that was supposed to hit the Pentagon was actually a bomb or something.

I just wanted to share that because it was an awesome read, but I'm not getting involved in the argument because 9/11 conspiracy theorists make me really, really angry. I had family members who worked in the World Trade Center, and I don't appreciate that shit whatsoever.

[Church]

Yea my bro was all over the Loose Change thing and I was just like *Facepalm*.

[rubidoux]

Yea my bro was all over the Loose Change thing and I was just like *Facepalm*.

Yeah, apparently this guy got so fed up with those people that he went through and researched why everything in that video was wrong, piece by piece. He even said something along the lines of, "And yes, this took a few days and I don't care if you think I have no life, at least now you know why I'm right." Also cool because after the fact I could shoot down anybody at school who tried to argue over the video with me haha.

[Camazotz]

dude,MAN UP.
am not an ignorant and i don't hate the US in fact am in the process of getting my green card coz i want to live in the US.
i don't hate you this is my personal opinion and i just speak my mind!!
i don't hate the American people.
i hate the government because they killed millions of people(vitnaim,iraq,korea........and the list goes on and on)
so chillax bro
peace out.

While I understand you don't hate the American people, my friend's parents died in 9/11. Every time someone brings up a conspiracy theory, it really breaks his (and my) heart. To think that his parents died because of our own government is twisted. It's an insult to their memory. Although I wasn't very close to him until then, I can empathize for him. I can't imagine what he had to go through. And when conspiracy nuts over Youtube posts theories that are simply ridiculous and proven false, I can't stand it. Maybe you've experienced something like this, maybe you haven't. But until you can feel the pain my friend suffered, you won't understand how upsetting these kinds of things are. The conspiracy nuts get a sense of thrill, like they're putting a puzzle together and solving it with clues. It's sick and disgusting.

[Reality]

While I understand you don't hate the American people, my friend's parents died in 9/11. Every time someone brings up a conspiracy theory, it really breaks his (and my) heart. To think that his parents died because of our own government is twisted. It's an insult to their memory. Although I wasn't very close to him until then, I can empathize for him. I can't imagine what he had to go through. And when conspiracy nuts over Youtube posts theories that are simply ridiculous and proven false, I can't stand it. Maybe you've experienced something like this, maybe you haven't. But until you can feel the pain my friend suffered, you won't understand how upsetting these kinds of things are. The conspiracy nuts get a sense of thrill, like they're putting a puzzle together and solving it with clues. It's sick and disgusting.
I'm not exactly disagreeing with you here, but what if (theoretically speaking) a conspiracy theory on 9/11 actually turned out to be true? Wouldn't that be comforting, seeing as the truth was found out?

[Camazotz]

I'm not exactly disagreeing with you here, but what if (theoretically speaking) a conspiracy theory on 9/11 actually turned out to be true? Wouldn't that be comforting, seeing as the truth was found out?

Not a bad question, actually. But a conspiracy that our government planned to kill its own citizens is far from comforting. If it were true (and it's not) it would cause mass hysteria and bring our society to a screeching halt.

But again, very interesting question.

[boy.on.laptop]

I'm relieved to see a strong majority rejecting the idea. Being zealous politically can be a very bad thing. From the right we see things wishes for President Obama's assassination, while we get this crap from the left. Extremism in any political form has no place in a modern society.

Yes unfortuantely extremism does play a big part in American society far more from the right than the left though think about it would anyone at all take this seriously if they viewd the republicans as moderates? The American right constantly uses conspiracy theroys far more than the left, Obama has often been called a communist while McCain never a facist. The fact that the US is the only western country on earth with no protection for the healthcare of its citizens is also because of these conspiracies theroys from the right.
I aree that 9/11 probably wasn't caused by the government, but no one could honestly deny that Bush benefited from it.

[The Batman]

I've done some more research on this sense my last post and I feel as if this wasn't a conspiracy done out by our government. A lot of the conspiracy theories only tell you part of the story to make it sound true, like in a video i saw the guy pointed out that there were over 30 calls made from one of the airplanes and that at that kind of altitude it's nearly impossible to make a call from a cell phone at that height. What he didn't mention was that only 2 of those calls were confirmed cell phone calls and they lasted about a minute before they dropped, 22 confirmed air phone calls, and 8 not specified in the report.

Check out wikipedia it's unbiased and it debunks a lot of the theories while also explain them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

[SlappyTwinkle]

I've done some more research on this sense my last post and I feel as if this wasn't a conspiracy done out by our government. A lot of the conspiracy theories only tell you part of the story to make it sound true, like in a video i saw the guy pointed out that there were over 30 calls made from one of the airplanes and that at that kind of altitude it's nearly impossible to make a call from a cell phone at that height. What he didn't mention was that only 2 of those calls were confirmed cell phone calls and they lasted about a minute before they dropped, 22 confirmed air phone calls, and 8 not specified in the report.

Check out wikipedia it's unbiased and it debunks a lot of the theories while also explain them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

i Wouldn't use wikipedia as a reliable source.

[The Batman]

Wikipedia is more reliable than those conspiracy sites, i really dont' see anything wrong with it being a source.

[Reality]

i Wouldn't use wikipedia as a reliable source.
Wikipedia is more reliable than you think. When you look up something on Wikipedia, there's usually sources that come with the information like "[34]", which links to the bottom of the page where the sources are. Sometimes they're websites, sometimes they're book/magazine references, etc.

Also the mods on Wikipedia are like Nazis. If you don't provide sources or write wrong information, they'll place "Citiation Needed" or "Who?"/"What?", in some cases they'll even delete your article/paragraph if it's all a bunch of crap or malicious.

A common misconception is that "anyone can write whatever they want" on Wikipedia, but it's technically not true.

[tbboltz92]

I think that Biladin is F-ING crazy and he took down the WTC.

I mean I really didnt like Bush but I doubt he'd attack his own country(he isnt smart enough too)lol jk

[drpepper21]

OK then, why in the world was the hole in the Pentagon way smaller than the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon? and why was the hole sort of a circular hole when a plane has wings?

thats like saying if you run at a door, youll go through, and a person shaped hole will be left behind.

[YourFriend]

Not a conspirecy.

[JunkBondTrader]

People always forget the most obvious question: why the hell would the US government bother? I've heard all sorts of crap from people about western imperialism and blah blah blah but if this was just an excuse to invade would the US actually consider it worth it? No! The cleanup from something like this would cost far more than any money they could make from the war.

Granted, there is a lot of stuff we weren't told but the same goes for any major attack.

[scuba steve]

People always forget the most obvious question: why the hell would the US government bother? I've heard all sorts of crap from people about western imperialism and blah blah blah but if this was just an excuse to invade would the US actually consider it worth it? No! The cleanup from something like this would cost far more than any money they could make from the war.

Granted, there is a lot of stuff we weren't told but the same goes for any major attack.

well lets have a think hmmm...... oil in two years of taking that oil they would have probably covered the cost for the world trade centre and as we speak are building five new towers as the new world trade centers in new york

i don't believe in this conspiracy but USA was worrying about the security of their shipments from the shippers

[junkie]

While I understand you don't hate the American people, my friend's parents died in 9/11. Every time someone brings up a conspiracy theory, it really breaks his (and my) heart. To think that his parents died because of our own government is twisted. It's an insult to their memory. Although I wasn't very close to him until then, I can empathize for him. I can't imagine what he had to go through. And when conspiracy nuts over Youtube posts theories that are simply ridiculous and proven false, I can't stand it. Maybe you've experienced something like this, maybe you haven't. But until you can feel the pain my friend suffered, you won't understand how upsetting these kinds of things are. The conspiracy nuts get a sense of thrill, like they're putting a puzzle together and solving it with clues. It's sick and disgusting.

God bless their souls,amen.
They died its over does it really matter if 911 was an inside job or not?
i know its painful. because they died not beacuse of these theories.

[Camazotz]

God bless their souls,amen.
They died its over does it really matter if 911 was an inside job or not?
i know its painful. because they died not beacuse of these theories.

They died to the hands of terrorists who were trying to disrupt our lives. Claiming that we did this to ourselves is an insult to our country and their memory. Conspiracy theorists enjoy to make these theories. It's like a mystery to them; they want to solve it. But the fact of the matter is that all they are doing is using false information to turn everyone against our government. Our government was not behind the 9/11 attacks.

[Reality]

They died to the hands of terrorists who were trying to disrupt our lives. Claiming that we did this to ourselves is an insult to our country and their memory. Conspiracy theorists enjoy to make these theories. It's like a mystery to them; they want to solve it. But the fact of the matter is that all they are doing is using false information to turn everyone against our government. Our government was not behind the 9/11 attacks.
You know, I disbelieve most conspiracy theories, but one of the most credible theories that I believe in is the fact the U.S. Government had preknowledge of an "attack", but didn't do enough to stop it. It's just odd that TWO planes were able to attack, I mean, wouldn't a military radar have picked up two planes that were of course going towards New York, and the fact a second plane was able to hit one of the towers within a few minutes, yet a fighter jet wasn't even alerted is kind of odd.

Tbh, I think more could have been done to stop it from happening, especially seeing as then-President Bush got some kind of warning about an attack on the United States a few months into his Presidency

I'd say it was down to incompetency.

[junkie]

They died to the hands of terrorists who were trying to disrupt our lives. Claiming that we did this to ourselves is an insult to our country and their memory. Conspiracy theorists enjoy to make these theories. It's like a mystery to them; they want to solve it. But the fact of the matter is that all they are doing is using false information to turn everyone against our government. Our government was not behind the 9/11 attacks.


your government is dope.

[The Batman]

If you don't have anything constructive to say then don't post.

[quartermaster]

You know, I disbelieve most conspiracy theories, but one of the most credible theories that I believe in is the fact the U.S. Government had preknowledge of an "attack", but didn't do enough to stop it. It's just odd that TWO planes were able to attack, I mean, wouldn't a military radar have picked up two planes that were of course going towards New York, and the fact a second plane was able to hit one of the towers within a few minutes, yet a fighter jet wasn't even alerted is kind of odd.

Tbh, I think more could have been done to stop it from happening, especially seeing as then-President Bush got some kind of warning about an attack on the United States a few months into his Presidency

I'd say it was down to incompetency.

Are you aware how many flights go in and out of New York City daily? If you are not, then you cannot possibly understand how difficult it is to spot two planes deviating from a route on a radar system out of the thousands of passenger planes flying across the United States northeast.

If you have ever been to New York City, one thing that is blatantly obvious is that all of the airports are easily minutes away from Manhattan Island by flight, and thus, any flight flying into LaGuardia, JFK, or even Newark, could just as easily deviate to Manhattan and be there within a few minutes. No matter how advanced an air system may be, it is very difficult to get sorties in the air within that amount of time. That is also saying that the United States government thought this was anything but an accident. For such an attack, I do not believe this to have been incompetence, as this was an unprecedented attack that put a strain on a system that supports thousands of flights a day. There are always holes in the system, and all that is required is for one hole to be exploited. On that same note, the London bus bombings or Madrid train bombings were not a matter of incompetence either, it was simply a problem of a security gap being exploited.

[Commander Thor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_E4N5YIycI
Don't foreget to watch parts 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECMJ2LBK90Q), 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSW1x_h4Kfo), & 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeSDOb7NcgE).

This video really opened my eyes to the whole 9/11 thing.

[MykeSoBe]

WTF!? I know Bush is a quack and all but our government would never brew up such a catastrophe. It's those terrorists from the Al-Qaeda (القأد).

[Church]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_E4N5YIycI
Don't foreget to watch parts 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECMJ2LBK90Q), 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSW1x_h4Kfo), & 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeSDOb7NcgE).

This video really opened my eyes to the whole 9/11 thing.

Those conspiracy videos use info found out days after the attack, when things are chaotic and people aren't sure what's happening, if you actually do your research you will find that most thing in those conspiracy videos are debunked by experts who actually do the research. In fact another popular 9-11 video is called Loose Change, everyone believed the crap said in it, experts debunked it, and later the people that made it said "We were just kids ways over our heads."

[Commander Thor]

Those conspiracy videos use info found out days after the attack, when things are chaotic and people aren't sure what's happening, if you actually do your research you will find that most thing in those conspiracy videos are debunked by experts who actually do the research. In fact another popular 9-11 video is called Loose Change, everyone believed the crap said in it, experts debunked it, and later the people that made it said "We were just kids ways over our heads."

The movie was made in in fall/winter of 2006, and released in 2007. Using the latest information/articles available at the time.
Hardly days after the attack. (Unless your definition of days is different than mine)
If you wish, http://zeitgeistmovie.com/sources.htm
Scroll down to 'Part 2' (The part I linked to (Movie wise))

[Jman35]

If you look at some of the facts, conspiracy or at least media inflation are both theories.

First of all, the Bin Laden show in the media, does not look anything like the Bin Laden in real time pictures.

If you look at the pictures, when the planes crash, it looks like there are explosions under it. This could be explained by possibly debris falling down, or fire catching, but since the plane goes completely through the tower, and explosion under the crash would explain it best.

Also, the security, how could we be so stupid as to let this happen. Men, who took flight classes, without takeoff or landing classes, who all are of the same race and origin, with boxcutter knives, and using all of the loopholes they can, want to get on a plane going across the country. It all seems to obvious to slip by if you ask me.

Does anyone think that maybe Bush didn't plan it all, and maybe it was just he airport security, or the security and some people in the towers? Or maybe just other branches of our government? Just because Bush was head honcho doesn't mean that if there was a conspiracy, he planned it all by himself single handily.

That's my opinion.

[Awesome]

Anyone who belives Bush did it is insane. Anyways the goverment would have very easily found out be tracing a call or any evidence.

[junkie]

Anyone who belives Bush did it is insane. Anyways the goverment would have very easily found out be tracing a call or any evidence.

because?

[tripolar]

Anyone who belives Bush did it is insane. Anyways the goverment would have very easily found out be tracing a call or any evidence.

Perfect time to bring this back too, eighth anniversary of 9/11 is on Friday.

But anyway, absolutely not no way was 9/11 a conspiracy. Same thing with the JFK assassination and moon landing, none of them were conspiracies.

[Θάνατος]

Yeah you guys are right George Bush and Bin Laden met in Baghdad with Saddam Hussein and the three of them plotted to ruin the world over a bottle of cheap vodka.

What could any one gain by killing those people on the planes and the twin towers as well as all of the rescue workers that dreadful morning. Maybe some of you are too young to remember what happened that day. The world stopped and mourned.

I remember it like it was yesterday. I had just started my 6th grade year. I lived in a small town at the time. I remember just watching the TV all day at school and then going home and seeing it on the TV all night. I remember my first reaction was to nuke Iraq.

You people need to get real here 9/11 was not a conspiracy any more than the other than the JFK assissination.

If you want to talk about conspiracy theories how about the way Bill Clinton was elected to be the president and any one who stood in his way is now dead from some strange and mysterious accident. But even this is just a theory. Shit happens that can't be explained.

[Ortizitthisone]

If you take a look at what the conspiracy theorists are saying, it isn't that 9/11 was Bush's idea. The conspiracy theorists (most of them, anyway) think that Bush was just a puppet for who is really running the government. Do your research before you write these people off, though. They do have some actual compelling evidence. I'm not convinced either way, to be honest.

[Ripplemagne]

*Writes off*

[Grey fox]

Nope - it was terrorists, the succeeded, it sucked and everything, BUT CAN WE PLEASE MOVE ON NOW!??!

[Camazotz]

Nope - it was terrorists, the succeeded, it sucked and everything, BUT CAN WE PLEASE MOVE ON NOW!??!

Move on? We won't forget about the near 3,000 people we lost to 9/11. After all, we celebrate the death of Jesus (Easter) 2,000 years later and he was just one man.

[Antares]

I suggest Youtube.
There are sooo many videos on this subject.

My personal opinion is that there are a LOT of things that are inconsistent and a lot of unanswered questions from the government.

I would like the government to sort this out instead of that damn 9/11 commission which was a joke.

But was it a conspiracy? Probably not. Was their foul play? Probably.

The point is that I can't say it wasn't until I get my questions answered and that will probably never happen.

[Grey fox]

Move on? We won't forget about the near 3,000 people we lost to 9/11. After all, we celebrate the death of Jesus (Easter) 2,000 years later and he was just one man.


I'm not saying forget the people who tragically lost their lives, but I feel that too much living in the past (and it IS in the past by now) is dangerous, because you trip up when you spend too much time looking behind yourself.

As for Jesus, I don't celebrate or even recognise Easter.

[boy.on.laptop]

[QUOTE=Θάνατος;636768] I remember my first reaction was to nuke Iraq.QUOTE]


Ok I know you were young and I at the time was only a year younger(equivalent of 5th grade in the US) but nuke Iraq? Most of the terriosts were Saudi Arabians and correct me if I am wrong but NONE were Iraqi. It's like saying my reaction during the rainbow warrior crisis in New Zealand would be to nuke the States(if we had nuclear weapons) even though France commited the terriosm act.

Saying all that though I personally view the attack on Iraq(and less so Afganistan) as American imperalism and benefitted the US in the form of oil. It is an awful thought but Bush benefited greatly from this event and in my opinon started a unneccessary war. However although I believe Bushed decieved the public and I disagree even dispise all of his policies I truly believe he acted on what he thought was right and that he definetly would not risk any of his people in any sort of conspiracy. It's like the JFK and princess Diana people can't accept that someone famous was just killed by a nutjob or in an accident, we the public want to think of their deaths in a noble way dying and sacrificing their lives for what they believed in which most of the time isn't true.

[boy.on.laptop]

I'm not saying forget the people who tragically lost their lives, but I feel that too much living in the past (and it IS in the past by now) is dangerous, because you trip up when you spend too much time looking behind yourself.

As for Jesus, I don't celebrate or even recognise Easter.

I peronally think the United States HAS moved on but you should always look to the past. We can only move foward by learning from the past. If the treaty of versallies hadn't been so harsh to Germany and isloating Germany by looking into the past like the triple entente pre-WW1 that eventually drove Germany into war, chances are WW2 would never have happened and 50 million lives would have been saved. I agree that people should forgive and move on but not forget. The past determines the present, the present determines the future.

[quartermaster]

Saying all that though I personally view the attack on Iraq(and less so Afganistan) as American imperalism and benefitted the US in the form of oil. It is an awful thought but Bush benefited greatly from this event and in my opinon started a unneccessary war. However although I believe Bushed decieved the public and I disagree even dispise all of his policies I truly believe he acted on what he thought was right and that he definetly would not risk any of his people in any sort of conspiracy.

The Iraqi invasion of 2003 was a form of American Neo-Imperialism, that is true, but the war was far more complex than just oil, it involved several geopolitical factors in the Middle East. Though oil, no doubt, was a contributing factor in "fueling" this invasion, many people overstate the importance of Iraqi oil to the United States government.

The invasion of Iraq involved the exertion of American influence in the Middle East through the means of regime change. The basic Neo-conservative reasoning in this invasion is that Afghanistan was not the crux of the problem, it (Afghanistan) was simply the place where the terrorists who attacked the United States were trained (I should establish that the Taliban and Al Qaeda are two separate organizations with two inherently separate goals; the Taliban was simply the ruling body that hosted Al Qaeda, but they did not attack the United States) . The US government understood that Afghanistan was not the big picture in curbing extremist Islam and terrorist organizations as a whole, from future attacks, as what was needed was not just the destruction of the terrorist camps (which can be constructed very quickly and built nearly anywhere where there is a failed or sympathetic government, like Somalia), but a perception change in the Middle East. As you touched upon, if you look at where the terrorist came from, they were not from Afghanistan or Iraq, but from US allied countries, or western-friendly countries such as Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Lebanon, and thus the US government needed to send signals and exert influence upon its allies in-order to ensure the true terrorist-base was broken.

Already by fall, 2000, respect for the United States in the Middle East had been at incredible lows, and many a US-friendly country allowed radical Islam to ferment in several of their respective regions. The invasion of Iraq was not to be an exertion of influence on the people of the Middle East, but on the respective governments of its allies such as Saudi Arabia, or friendly nations such as the UAE or Egypt. The invasion was not only to show that the United States was willing to go to extreme measures to meet their ends, but also was to re-exert the power of the United States in the Middle East in a message that the US will not tolerate the continued fermentation of radical Islam in these regions.

Of course, at the same time, Iraq was to curb the power of an emerging Iran within the region (which could also be seen as a concession to Saudi Arabia, who feared an emerging Iran as much as the US did) and create a beacon for which America to have a strategic stronghold (through the new Iraqi "democracy"). Understand, even in today’s world of instant technological gratification and supersonic travel, the power that is the closest to the source, exerts the most influence on a geopolitical scale.

It is, of course, understood today, that the United States failed to meet its ends in almost all of these areas (except, ironically, in oil). By fall, 2003, the United States government had failed to see that they were dealing with an active insurgency in Iraq and thus failed to act and put it down quickly and decisively, which called into action the growth of several insurgency groups (the insurgency by nature, started in the south). As a result, the United States got bogged down in Iraq and it saw the likes of years such as 2005, 2006 and 2007, where the insurgency, as well as Al Qaeda (which was not in Iraq previous to the Spring, 2003 invasion) inflicted massive damage to the perceived strength of the US military in the Middle East; thus, proving to be contrary to the goals of the invasion, as it were. Indeed, Iraq was much more complex than oil, as though it did not directly involve Al Qaeda, it did involve the US military attempting to meet its ends in curbing radical Islam and reasserting influence within the Middle East.

I personally believe such exertion to be unnecessary and excessive; do not get me wrong, I understand a government is going to act on what it sees are the best interests of its people. Further, I understand a country will do what it must to protect its citizens, while at the same time trying to maintain its hegemony within a region. However, I do not believe the Iraqi invasion to have been necessary, as I believe they could have met their ends in other ways that did not involve a regime change and invasion of a country (that said, I do not have the intelligence that they were supplied with and still do not know all of the details). Beyond that, as a non-interventionist, I believe the United States should stay out of the affairs of the Middle Eastern countries and not try to even “exert” its influence anywhere that involves force or the military (globalization, as far as I am concerned, has already facilitated exertion enough) and thus we can avoid radical groups that see us as imperialists, crusaders or invaders to their lands, but that is a separate issue.

Common misconceptions in the goal of the US government in its invasion of Iraq range from spreading democracy to oil (I concede oil played a role, but oil alone is largely simplistic, as it was a very small part), but on balance, Iraq was strictly geopolitical, nothing else.

[Jagador]

I sorta kinda think it is, but at the same time, i don't think it is. However, a lot of information hasn't been told to the public, and there are things that don't make sense to me....=T

[Ortizitthisone]

If it was some kind of conspiracy by the US government, there are a lot of things that don't make sense. For example, if they wanted to use the attacks as an excuse to invade Iraq, then why did they blame the attacks on Osama bin Laden? Osama bin Laden was the leader of al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, not Iraq. And certainly the US has invaded Afghanistan too, but I think they have had a much higher impact in Iraq. Doesn't make too much sense.

[Triceratops]

I do believe there is information of the 9/11 case which has been withheld from the public.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's a conspiracy. No way in hell do I think the 9/11 attack was down to the government, Al Qaeda did this off their own backs. I sincerely doubt the government would cause that amount of destruction to their own country. For almost each and every major occurance, tragedy or accomplishment there will always be some sort of supposed theory behind it.

[quartermaster]

Of course, there is always going to be information that a government withholds for one reason or another. However, the only concession I am willing to make is that perhaps such information was withed (besides national security reasons) to try to cover some of the relative government inadequacies in the form of security. It is not too far fetched to believe that the government would withhold information in order to cover certain inadequacies or ineptitudes within itself in an effort to protect certain officials or protect department integrity.

However, any pretense of a government planned operation to bring down the World Trade Center, Pentagon etc., I believe is giving the US government far too much credit in its ability to orchestrate such a thing. Beyond that, today, most, if not all, of the 9/11 "Truth" arguments have been more than adequately debunked. In the stroke of a key, you can find the various refutations...

[Ripplemagne]

Quartermaster is a little pacifist for my tastes, but he pretty much tore you all a new ass. Well done.

[boy.on.laptop]

I agy argument was simplistic to be honest I can't be bothered to go into this sort of detail on a teen forum site instead of a full ideological debate and exams are coming up and I am running out of study time lol.

Oil is a simplistic argument but I think it also important in redefining the perceptions of the public. The general public is not going to go into the detail regarding the Saudi Arabian alliance and other security matters in the area. That is why I view the oil argument as good in letting the public in to what in my view were altrea motives to Iraq and that 'protecting america' and the 'war on terriosm' weren't the only reasons behind the invasion.

[Giles]

no that is just crazy! Because if someone had PROFF the goverment,Bush,and America would be fucked

You spelt PROOF wrong.

[Ripplemagne]

You spelt PROOF wrong.

Don't be a grammar nazi. It's disgusting and you set yourself up to get demolished.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

did they destroy the towers? no.

but they could have prevented it and handled things after better.

[Modus Operandi]

Conspiracy is not the word I would use. I do not believe Bush 'ordered' the attacks because that is just ridiuculous.

However I do believe that there are a lot of things that don't add up. There is a lot of stuff that the public haven't been told.

This is pretty much it^.

I really don't think it was led by our government, but you never know. Bush had some wierd stuff happen during his terms.

[Sugaree]

but they could have prevented it and handled things after better.

Which is the one thing we didn't do. We had recieved fair warnings since the Clinton administration. Hell, they bombed the basement of the WTC in '93, when Clinton was in office. Don't you think they would finish the job? It still surprises me that they were all able to get past airport security with things like box cutters and, possibly, bombs. I believe that the governement had well enough known that something was going to happen, but it wasn't their fault really. We knew SOMETHING could POSSIBLY happen, but it was when. When would we be attacked? They got us when we had our backs turned.

[Alfred Pennyworth]

NO CONSPIRACY! Would you think that the govt. would fake the calls of the people calling from the planes?! I don't think so! Would the govt. COMPLETELY DESTROY two of the US's tallest buildings next to the Empire State building and the Sears Tower?! I didn't think so! So just stop saying that the 2,993 people who died on that day(minus the hijackers) is a conspiracy! Just thinking that makes me sick!

[Rainstorm]

NO CONSPIRACY! Would you think that the govt. would fake the calls of the people calling from the planes?! I don't think so!

Let me point out, this has nothing to do with a conspiracy. People were scared, so they called loved ones.

There still a lot of things that don't add up, but I'm beginning to think it isn't a conspiracy. Though, what i don't get is that the FBI nearly had one of the hijackers in their hands, but at the last minute, called it off. They said that there was someone else, someone who has never done a terrorist act, they had their eyes on

[Ryhanna]

Its a conspiracy if you believe those "bush is a satanist member of the 'illuminati'" rumours. Its a very strange story, but not a conspiarcy - just an act of evil by horrible people. I'd go into more detail with the description of them but i dont want to get banned.

[liveyoungdiefast]

I believe al-Queda did it without the Bush administration's knowledge and also that the Bush administration and many corporations profited greatly from it and its aftermath. You can have it both ways, you know.

[Sugaree]

I believe al-Queda did it without the Bush administration's knowledge and also that the Bush administration and many corporations profited greatly from it and its aftermath. You can have it both ways, you know.

The Clinton AND Bush Administrations had fair warning of an impending attack, yet took no action. The bombing of the WTC in 1993 should have made it clear that they would finish the job.

[The Batman]

The Clinton AND Bush Administrations had fair warning of an impending attack, yet took no action. The bombing of the WTC in 1993 should have made it clear that they would finish the job.

Haven't you heard that lighting doesn't strike twice? There is no way in hell they could have known that terrorist would have flown commercial planes into the World Trade Center unless they had a well written plan of action emailed to them or someone from the inside told them or planned it.

[Sugaree]

Haven't you heard that lighting doesn't strike twice? There is no way in hell they could have known that terrorist would have flown commercial planes into the World Trade Center unless they had a well written plan of action emailed to them or someone from the inside told them or planned it.

But you're missing the point. Osama Bin Laden had been making his videos warning this country that something would happen. 9/11 was years in the making. It started out in the early nineties. We were given fair warning. They bombed the WTC in 93. They thought it would work. It didn't. Don't you think they would want to finish it? Bin Laden never easily gave up. You don't need to have someone on the inside to tell you that something is going to happen. We just turned the other cheek.

[quartermaster]

The Clinton AND Bush Administrations had fair warning of an impending attack, yet took no action. The bombing of the WTC in 1993 should have made it clear that they would finish the job.

I do not believe Al Qaeda "finishing the job" had to be inevitable; however, I do agree that the aggressive, interventionist nature of the United States foreign policy sets us up for such confrontations. People have the idea that pulling out of areas in the Middle East or stopping our intervention within those areas would be a sign of weakness or would open ourselves for attack, but of course, those both are foolish, neo-imperialist arguments. The only reason the United States has to fight these terrorist groups and increase hegemony in areas (such as Iraq) is because our intervention and maintenance of empire ensures that our country cannot be safe from the disgruntled populace of those nation-states of which we exert influence.

September 11, 2001, was the result of our government's actions within the Middle East (this includes Bush 41, Clinton and Bush 43); it was not an attack on our country's values, but an attack on our country for their policies. Of course, the United States was completely justified in striking back at the terrorist organization involved and the organization of which hosted them. However, I believe a large folly in United States foreign policy was the huge focus on destroying certain organizations, but not trying to address the issue of why we were attacked. Instead of addressing the underlying issue of our continued intervention spurring an attack, we sought just to destroy our enemies but increase intervention and empire in the Middle East. To be sure, the United States has thoroughly crippled Al Qaeda, but that does not solve anything, as they are just one out of many terrorist organizations.

[Rebecca L Vaughn]

Absolutely not! There are tons of theories that are out there. For instance, one is that a missile hit the WTC. Any person in their right mind would know that that was a lie. There were people also on the phone with the people on the plane. America would not kill it's own citizens just to go to war. The terrorist destroyed it because the WTC were a symbol of pride and they and they wanted to show us that they were serious. People make up things just to be cool or make money, but the lies are blinding them.

[OneManArmy]

Who ever says so is an idiot, sure I hate the US government as much as anyone else. But why would they kill 3000 of their citizens, destroy a major land mark, and hurt their economy just so they can declare some useless war that we'll all eventually pull out of (Canada's planning to pull out by 2011). The Soviets failed, and the British failed, we'll be no different.

[Jmann]

look i know it might sound crazy but i believe it was-i have facts and proof that it might be one. there is also a secret society(i guarantee you have seen their symbolism and i have done a paper on them) that might be behind it too and a part of that society is in every city across the US. PM me if you wanna chat bout them, you are more than welcome to ask me questions bout them

[Peace God]

Although 9/11 was very convenient for the Bush administration...i doubt the gov't is directly responsible.

[CaptainObvious]

Please don't resurrect threads this old, Jmann.

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