Materbation and god

[The Boy Genius]

Recently i have been thinking why does god think masterbation is a sin it is illogical, I mean the two other ways to realese sexual tentions which is porn and sex and god hates porn and you have to be married for sex. I mean honstly you should never just blindly follow the bible think why. So religious nuts, Atheists and weirdos FIGHT!

[tammy_x3]

Haha, doesn't it say in the bible god would rather you give your seed to a whore than waste it? I forget the wording but it's something like that.

idk, god doesn't like your stiffy I guess.

[Sage]

So religious nuts, Atheists and weirdos FIGHT!

I suppose you'd like me to roll over and speak too, huh?

Christians will pick and choose the parts of the Bible they want to follow. It's as simple as that.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I'm an atheist, so this doesn't matter to me, but anyways the bible doesn't mention masturbation ANYWHERE. At all.

The story of Onan is NOT about masturbation, by the way. It's about "pulling out" and not impregnating your sister-in-law after her husband died (as was the custom back then!) :D

[Ripplemagne]

The Bible does not condemn masturbation. If someone disagrees, please provide a verse that affirms such as I know of none.

[Reality]

I don't know where people get this idea that God/Christianity/the Bible is against masturbation. From what I recall they never mentioned anything about masturbation.

But there were societies in the past that condemned masturbation, not religions.

I'm agnostic, by the way.

[Death]

Whether or not the bible mentions masturbation, it is stil clearly right. If people had to be married and have sex that could cause unwanted pregnancies to get healthy ejaculation and un orgasms, people would do it mre without commitment and then where would we be? People who are agaisnt masturbation are against a civilised world. Ignore them.

[tammy_x3]

Whether or not the bible mentions masturbation, it is stil clearly right. If people had to be married and have sex that could cause unwanted pregnancies to get healthy ejaculation and un orgasms, people would do it mre without commitment and then where would we be? People who are agaisnt masturbatoin are against a civilised world. They're pathetic.

I think they follow the belief that sexual activities are only for procreation and nothing more. Masturbation is just an indulgence and not a necessity.

[Death]

But the thing is, masturbation isn't truly sexual activity since you are not doing it with another person. Also, it is in fact good for you (if you want more specific information on this, I'd just google it since i found this information on wikipedia but it's been supported elsewhere as well) and it's fun. Why prohibit a fun thing that does no harm?

[Ripplemagne]

Those are fundamentalists. They make no sense to me.

[tammy_x3]

But the thing is, masturbation isn't truly sexual activity since you are not doing it with another person. Also, it is in fact good for you (if you want more specific information on this, I'd just google it since i found this information on wikipedia but it's been supported elsewhere as well) and it's fun. Why prohibit a fun thing that does no harm?

Personal opinion. Some people find it vulgar, along with other sexual activities that are not for procreation.

[Bougainvillea]

I'm an atheist, so this doesn't matter to me, but anyways the bible doesn't mention masturbation ANYWHERE. At all.

The story of Onan is NOT about masturbation, by the way. It's about "pulling out" and not impregnating your sister-in-law after her husband died (as was the custom back then!) :D

Uhh. Doesn't the bible say "Thou shalt not spill thy seed upon the earth" or something like that? Anyway, I don't have a religion, but I think that masturbation is a choice and if god doesn't like me wanking it, I don't care. :P

[Death]

Very true; God can keep his (Offensive stuff removed ~Euphoria) nose out of our private business. To be honest, I don't even believe he does exist. But if he were to (which he doesn't), my first point stands.

[Bougainvillea]

THANK YOU
If god doesn't like masturbation then he would have done something to the ancient egyptians. At least we're not having babies. I'd rather have someone cum into a tissue than them having sex

[Death]

Absolutely right. It's the better option than to rush in having mindless sex. All religious people should know this - not just their God if he exists at all.

[Bougainvillea]

Exactly.
Thank You. Nobody ever agrees with me on my opinion on "God"

[Reality]

Uhh. Doesn't the bible say "Thou shalt not spill thy seed upon the earth" or something like that? Anyway, I don't have a religion, but I think that masturbation is a choice and if god doesn't like me wanking it, I don't care. :P
I've never heard of that. I'm someone that went to a Catholic school and know the ten commandments and such, I'm pretty certain that's not in the bible nor any other document. Although I could be wrong because I never really paid attention >_>. Got a source?

Very true; God can keep his (Offensive stuff removed ~Euphoria) nose out of our private business. To be honest, I don't even believe he does exist. But if he were to (which he doesn't), my first point stands.
Look - I'm sure we all appreciate your atheist opinion, but don't be so bashing about God like that, especially since you're asserting that he definitely, hand-over-heart, does not exist. There are actually theist people on VT (that doesn't include me, as I said, I'm an agnostic), and this thread isn't about whether you believe in God or not, but about what God (if he exists*) thinks of masturbation.

[INFERNO]

So religious nuts, Atheists and weirdos FIGHT!

Hmm, I see we're playing a version of Simon Says, aren't we?

From my discussions with Christians, the concept of masterbation is usually (or for the version deeply religious ones always) connected to the idea of lusting over someone, which I believe is a sin. It usually also gets connected to adultery, which is breaking the 7th commandment. Masterbation doesn't need to involve lusting over someone, however, that seems to be the connection that's made. I suppose it is also using the idea that you're to have sex after marriage, and if you aren't married and you're fapping away, then it's a sexual activity before marriage and that I believe is a sin along with the idea of lust. If you are married and fap away, it could be considered wasting your "seeds" and you're lusting. Of course, you don't need to lust over someone to have some fun.

Another possible counter to that argument is that masterbation is not a sexual activity, which begs the question, what is a sexual activity? It's a subjective and ambiguous term. If you define it as not being one and you're not lusting, then I'm not sure if there's another reason to consider it a sin (which of course is more or less subjective :lol:).

[goin to work]

im fairly sure god does not care if you have fun with you self in the big sceme of things its water under the bridge

[punkjake]

Umm im christian and this is kinda offensive:what: but i think GOd doesn't mind it ,its just ppl who wrote the bible said it,God knows we're human and we make mistake,Jesus never said at the Last Supper "Though shall not masturbate"He said Love your neighboras i love you :yeah:

[Sage]

I've never heard of that. I'm someone that went to a Catholic school and know the ten commandments and such, I'm pretty certain that's not in the bible nor any other document. Although I could be wrong because I never really paid attention >_>. Got a source?

I'm an atheist, so this doesn't matter to me, but anyways the bible doesn't mention masturbation ANYWHERE. At all.

The story of Onan is NOT about masturbation, by the way. It's about "pulling out" and not impregnating your sister-in-law after her husband died (as was the custom back then!) :D

Does no one listen to ThatCanadianGuy? The Story of Onan is in the Bible, and it is about pulling out during sex, not masturbation. Let's not take things out of context.

[The Boy Genius]

Whoo I only thougt I would get 6 replies

[sebbie]

Umm im christian and this is kinda offensive:what: but i think GOd doesn't mind it ,its just ppl who wrote the bible said it,God knows we're human and we make mistake,Jesus never said at the Last Supper "Though shall not masturbate"He said Love your neighboras i love you :yeah:

The bible teaches that God knows we make mistakes but if we have the choice which can prevent us from committing the act in question then it would be the better option to follow.

By this i mean if masturbation is deemed wrong due to it being thought lustful, not for procreation etc then we have the option to do it, but we also have the option to abstain, which from the religious perception is better.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Uhh. Doesn't the bible say "Thou shalt not spill thy seed upon the earth" or something like that? Anyway, I don't have a religion, but I think that masturbation is a choice and if god doesn't like me wanking it, I don't care. :P

Yeah... that's the story of Onan. He wasn't killed for masturbating. He was killed for not getting his sister-in-law pregnant (he pulled out too quick and came on the ground!).

[Camazotz]

I suppose you'd like me to roll over and speak too, huh?

Christians will pick and choose the parts of the Bible they want to follow. It's as simple as that.

Unfortunately, this is true. Just like criminals follow the laws they like and disobey the ones they want.

[rainebg]

Whoo I only thougt I would get 6 replies

Whenever you involve religion you're going to get a lot of posts and each one will be a mini novel. That's just how it goes on VT. i like it personally and i love to debate. Unfortunately i know nothing about the catholic god and his views on masturbation so i cannot participate. I am an athiest though so i do not believe god exists.

[nachtspiegel]

I'm not religious, but I feel that if "God" didn't want people to play with themselves, he wouldn't give them things to play with.
It's like giving an alcoholic a beer. It's there, and they'll drink it.
In my opinion, the same idea applies.

[The Boy Genius]

Thats the way life works, i guess look at the pope and every one fighting his every word. Slight tangent who is the bigger sinner in the eyes of the church. A rapist or a rapist who uses a condom. The answer is the 2nd

[AMERICANelite123]

WARNING I AM NOT RELIGIOUS I AM AGNOSTIC.
i respect peopls beliefs wether they are crazy or not
but i think if God really didnt want us to do that stuff he would make humans and animals or whatever totally incapable of doing it! wouldnt you think i mean it would make sence!
even though i didnt really believe in God.
i mean the bible is not written by god, its written by people... from a long time ago! who knows they may have been grumpy old men who were jealous of the younger men and yeah they didnt want them to have and do things they couldnt? i dont mean to offend anyone
so yeah i mean if there really is a god and the bible is right wouldnt you think he or it would make us completely incapable of this stuff?!

[Sage]

so yeah i mean if there really is a god and the bible is right wouldnt you think he or it would make us completely incapable of this stuff?!

A christian could probably explain better than I can, but that's where 'free will' comes into play.

[INFERNO]

but i think if God really didnt want us to do that stuff he would make humans and animals or whatever totally incapable of doing it! wouldnt you think i mean it would make sence!

When God created life on earth (humans, other animals, etc...), he gave the ability for us to have free will, allowing us to do whatever we wish. If you are loyal to him, then you'd abide by his rules or guidelines (depending on how strict you are) and you would show your devotion to him. He does not force people to worship him but rather, if you do truly believe in him, then you will worship him, sort of a weeding out method: if he makes you believe in him then that's not you showing your devotion, it's simply him showing devotion and love for himself, whereas if you willingly live your life abiding by him, then that shows you are devoted.


i mean the bible is not written by god, its written by people... from a long time ago! who knows they may have been grumpy old men who were jealous of the younger men and yeah they didnt want them to have and do things they couldnt?

No, I don't think this is the case. If you pick up the bible and read it, you'd realize it's written in ways that are applicable to everyone regardless of age. The bible also is a book of morals (although the Old Testament is a bit shady on teaching good morals IMO), it still applies to everyone. There are not any passages I'm aware of where it states something that only an old person can do and not a younger one, or vice-versa.


so yeah i mean if there really is a god and the bible is right wouldnt you think he or it would make us completely incapable of this stuff?!

I suggest you read up on the bible or read some sites outlining the basic beliefs of the bible.

[byee]

Where'd you hear that God doesn't want you to materbate? Has He revealed this to you (or anyone you know)?

"Christians will pick and choose the parts of the Bible they want to follow. It's as simple as that"

No, people who do not understand Scripture or religion (or frankly the concept of God) feel this way. Sadly, this misrepresentation isn't limited to any one religion, as ignorance doesn't discriminate.

Masturbation is a natural, normal behavior that is done by everyone, it's a universal activity. The urge that drives (causes) it is completely biological (the sex drive), and you can no more effectively control that then you can sweating or blinking. Inserting God or religion into it misses the point entirely as it suggests we *should* control soemthing that is basically beyond our control, our biology.

Better to be a *good* person, to be open minded and fair, to be tolerant and accepting. Maybe a good start might be with those things within ourselves, like our sexual urges.

[Sage]

"Christians will pick and choose the parts of the Bible they want to follow. It's as simple as that"

No, people who do not understand Scripture or religion (or frankly the concept of God) feel this way.

Excuse me? Have I been mistaken? Whether they follow every word to the letter or just barely hang onto the vague concept, they are still picking and choosing what parts of their religion to believe in.

[vito22andolini]

do what you want , dont stop at stupid rules like that , if that **''God'' realy exists and he'd love you , he'd want you to have fun and not to listen to stupid priests

[Oblivion]

I did think it said somewhere in the Bible that you shouldn't waste your semen, but really, masturbation doesn't waste it at all; it would be released in nocturnal emission anyways.
I may be wrong about the Bible, but either way the fact remains that there is nothing wrong with masturbation health wise, moral wise, or legal wise.

[byee]

Excuse me? Have I been mistaken? Whether they follow every word to the letter or just barely hang onto the vague concept, they are still picking and choosing what parts of their religion to believe in.

I think you might have been mistaken, Des. People who really understand the concept of religion (whichever one that might be) or have studied it really do have a much different concept of religion and God than those who go only in Sundays and listen to the meanderings of *others*. Those whose sense of 'religion' or 'God' is based more on convienence or obligation tend to see the Bible more as a list of 'don'ts' seemingly designed to control, rather than what it is: An understanding and acceptance of a Spirit greater than ourselves who's presence provides guidance and hope to allow us to think for ourselves and take better care of eachother and the world.

Seen in that light, there's no conflict between the pleasure of masturbation and the 'Will' of the Almighty b/c the activity doesn't interfere with our greater ability to recognize our real responsibilities: To be responsible stewards of the earth (and obviously, eachother).

[LoveBullets]

The bible doesn't outright condemn masturbation, but it does state that lust is a no-no.
Lust and masturbation are many times juxtaposed whenever the subject comes up, so I that's pretty much why many believe masturbation is sinful. Truth is though that god does want us to enjoy our sexuality(preferably with a spouse). I guess the key to masturbating without sinning is to keep your thoughts away from lustful "stuff" and focus at the work at...hand ;D

People everywhere disagree on the subject of god and masturbation though, so ultimately it's up to you to make the choice :]

[YourFriend]

Pls, don't spread wrong information, Bible doesn't condemn masturbation, nor does it mention it, but God DOES, in one of his commandments, masturbation IS forbidden, but tell me, WHO THE HELL CARES, masturbation is gives pleasure, and i wont let God stop me from doing it, so i became atheist this year, becouse god restricts us 2 much and i just dont want to have anything to do with him anymore(if he even exists)

[INFERNO]

Pls, don't spread wrong information, Bible doesn't condemn masturbation, nor does it mention it, but God DOES, in one of his commandments, masturbation IS forbidden, but tell me, WHO THE HELL CARES, masturbation is gives pleasure, and i wont let God stop me from doing it, so i became atheist this year, becouse god restricts us 2 much and i just dont want to have anything to do with him anymore(if he even exists)

So the 10 Commandments are not in the bible? Those parts of Exodus, Deuteronomy, etc..., none of that is in the bible? That's pretty interesting. What I also find to be even more interesting is that God is not in the bible according to you. So, the question becomes, what piece of literature, aside from the bible and possibly also testimonies supports him, supports the overall belief?

I think you should heed your own advice: don't spread wrong information.

Am I understanding this properly, you became an atheist because the concept of God disallows masturbation? If the concept of God restricts you too much, then your answer is to respond to restriction using restriction. But as you say, "who the hell cares", if it's not such a big deal, then why bother to restrict it in the first place?

[pkid]

I suppose you'd like me to roll over and speak too, huh?

Christians will pick and choose the parts of the Bible they want to follow. It's as simple as that.

First of all that is not true.. I know of a Christian denomination that obeys and follows everything in the bible. And about the masterbation I really don't know

[Sage]

First of all that is not true.. I know of a Christian denomination that obeys and follows everything in the bible. And about the masterbation I really don't know

That's still picking and choosing- they just happen to choose everything.

[zoom zoom]

I bet you God got Lonely and he wanted to do something. and maybe thats why it hails. because hes so high in the sky it just freezes up

[Mind forte]

Here's a copy 'n' paste of a post of mine in a different thread.
Bare masturbation is the only form of masturbation I believe is O.K. (Read on ;) )
I believe masturbating while wanting to have sex with someone is a sin, because it is lust. Why I say that:
Matthew 5:28
But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Lusting after a person during masturbation is a sin, or at any time.

People claim that they watch porn and they don't care about having sex with the person they're watching, they just need something to help them get going. Well, I have something for that to.
Psalm 101:3
I will set nothing wicked before my eyes;
I hate the work of those who fall away;
It shall not cling to me.
Porn, is a wicked thing to set before your eyes before my opinion. Ripplemagne has a different stance on this. I take that verse literally.

For the last part
I hate the work of those who fall away;
It shall not cling to me.
For those who do not understand here's the Bible GOD'S WORD version:p
I hate what unfaithful people do. I want no part of it.
Keep away from sin basically, you hate sin. Nevertheless you should remember people can get saved.

All in all, bare masturbation (No porn, No lust) is fine in my opinion. There's room for debate, I welcome you to it. We can do it VIA msn, mine's is [email protected]

And deschain, the Bible is meant to be literal, some parts aren't because they're just sayings.
I.E. "It's raining cats and dogs out there" Doesn't mean it's raining cats and dogs, it means it's raining very hard.

True, people pick and Choose. But people pick and choose things they want. Taking the bible literally is what you have to do to be a True Christian. People take bits and pieces they don't like them and throw them out. That's not what you're supposed to do, I agree. It's literal, that's what it's supposed to be and that's exactly what it is.


EDIT: I realized something shortly after I posted this, and ripplemagne, you were right. When I quoted psalm 101:3 I was taking it as a literal thing. It's not, it's a way to live your life. King David wrote it, it's all prayers, worship songs and poetry.

I will not set my eyes on wicked things

That's David talking to God. It's a good standard to live by, but doing it doesn't make it a sin. So, I can see how pornography is alright. As long as you're not lusting. I'm keeping the rest of the post there so you can see what I'm talking about. Darn you Ripplemagne, you're always right XD

[INFERNO]

Seeing as how your argument is a copy-and-paste from another thread, I'll do the same:


If that's the case, I'll put in my two cents. The bible teaches that homosexual sex is a sin. If you truly think you cannot become heterosexual (As some people have) You do not have to go get changed, just don't have homosexual six, it's a sin after all, isn't it? In my opinion, masturbation is wrong.

I've lost the train of thought for your argument. You're debating homosexual sex being a sin then randomly hop over to masturbation? Are you implying that the sins from masturbation and homosexual sex are equal? Many people are along the lines that all sins are equal so this may seem as a given.

It's somewhat of an odd way to put it, "if you truly think you cannot become heterosexual", makes it sound as though you won't be "normal".

Anyways, let's see if I can follow your train of thought.

As you referenced Psalm 101:3, I'm curious, why is porn, to you a wicked thing? What exactly makes something "wicked"? You can give a biblical verse to the two questions but I'm not interested in what the bible says, I'm interested in what you have to say.

The part I find interesting is that if you only hate the things that the person does, then I have two questions:

1) When hating what the person does, do you also hate the person? Let's say you hate the idea of porn, so if someone you know watches porn, do you hate them?
2) If you don't hate the person, then why don't you hate them? It's cited in the bible over and over, particularly in the Old Testament where god claims to not only hate the actions but also the person doing those actions. So if god hates the person, then why don't you hate the person?

What I find to be further interesting is:

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)

So for those who claim to hate or dislike or whatever similar, are you not also committing a sin while arguing that something else is a sin, all sins are bad, etc...? It seems somewhat odd to me. As Galatians 5:19-21 shows, it's not oriented towards hate or rage, etc... to a person, it's just those acts in general.


So I rooted off to how heterosexual's commit something that is hard to break to, a pleasure. Something of this world, which we don't need. Heterosexuals have sex for reproducing and pleasure, which is fine because it's not a sin.

Refer back to Galatians 5:19-21, where orgies are referenced as a sin. Heterosexuals can have orgies, as can homosexuals, so would that not also make some heterosexual sex a sin? Masturbation and sex before one is married can be seen as impurity, which goes back to the trusty Galatians 5:19-21 as being a sin.

About being a "True Christian", is it your belief that you must take the bible literally or do you have some evidence stating it? To me, the belief is about showing compassion, love, etc... but of course if you do take it literally, and by this I do include the Old Testament and the New Testament, then you'd be committing sins while doing so.

[Mind forte]

I was referring to how heterosexuals can struggle with sex related sin to by talking about masturbation. I edited my post, did you not read it? Here it is:


EDIT: I realized something shortly after I posted this, and ripplemagne, you were right. When I quoted psalm 101:3 I was taking it as a literal thing. It's not, it's a way to live your life. King David wrote it, it's all prayers, worship songs and poetry.

I will not set my eyes on wicked things

That's David talking to God. It's a good standard to live by, but doing it doesn't make it a sin. So, I can see how pornography is alright. As long as you're not lusting. I'm keeping the rest of the post there so you can see what I'm talking about. Darn you Ripplemagne, you're always right XD


It's somewhat of an odd way to put it, "if you truly think you cannot become heterosexual", makes it sound as though you won't be "normal".

No, that's not what I was implying at all. Heterosexuality is not a sin, homosexuality is. It's not being "normal" it's being a non-sinner.



As you referenced Psalm 101:3, I'm curious, why is porn, to you a wicked thing? What exactly makes something "wicked"? You can give a biblical verse to the two questions but I'm not interested in what the bible says, I'm interested in what you have to say.

I failed majorly quoting Psalm 101:3. It was a mistake, I take it back. What makes something wicked? Sin. Didn't I edit my post before you posted?

The part I find interesting is that if you only hate the things that the person does, then I have two questions:

1) When hating what the person does, do you also hate the person? Let's say you hate the idea of porn, so if someone you know watches porn, do you hate them?
2) If you don't hate the person, then why don't you hate them? It's cited in the bible over and over, particularly in the Old Testament where god claims to not only hate the actions but also the person doing those actions. So if god hates the person, then why don't you hate the person?
Once again, I shouldn't have quoted psalm 101:3. To question number one, no. For two, God loves everyone, he hates sin not sinners. Try to prove me wrong.




So for those who claim to hate or dislike or whatever similar, are you not also committing a sin while arguing that something else is a sin, all sins are bad, etc...? It seems somewhat odd to me. As Galatians 5:19-21 shows, it's not oriented towards hate or rage, etc... to a person, it's just those acts in general.
This argument doesn't involve Psalm 101:3. I misquoted it as being from God, my horrible mistake. Psalms is poetry, worship songs, and prayer. It's not what God is saying, Kind David wrote the book. Keeping my eyes from wicked things is a good thing to live by is what he says. I'm sinning by arguing that something else is a sin? Wow...



Refer back to Galatians 5:19-21, where orgies are referenced as a sin. Heterosexuals can have orgies, as can homosexuals, so would that not also make some heterosexual sex a sin? Masturbation and sex before one is married can be seen as impurity, which goes back to the trusty Galatians 5:19-21 as being a sin.
SEXUAL IMMORTALITY, buddy. Normal heterosexual sex isn't a sin.

then you'd be committing sins while doing so.
What?

[Ripplemagne]

Many people are along the lines that all sins are equal so this may seem as a given.

Wrong. (http://www.gotquestions.org/sins-equal.html)

Wrong. (http://www.scripturessay.com/article.php?cat=&id=402)

Wrong. (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/january/19.65.html)

Wrong. (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=all+sins+are+equal&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&fp=QgH0mGofWKc)

Carry on.

[INFERNO]

To question number one, no. For two, God loves everyone, he hates sin not sinners. Try to prove me wrong.

OK, if he loves everyone, then why does he purposely have them suffer? Why does he kill an entire town if only one person disbelieves (see Deuteronomy 13:13-19)? If he hates the sin but not the sinner, then why does the person end up being punished? You can answer this by throwing around the statement that he still loves them but I find that to be rather unusual and does not make sense. Before someone is to be judged, to me, the person and their sins are viewed separately so you can love the person but hate the sins of the person. That may not be how it is written in the bible but it's how I've come to think of it. When you're judged, you seem to in a way, pay for your sins and more than once god has said he hates the person.

Another passage, look at Leviticus 26:21-22, where god says he will punish the people even more and also kill their livestock just so they can suffer. But what about when god ordered killing of numerous people? Surely he had some reason to dislike them, not only their sin(s) but them also. You also have Numbers 25:1-9 and other passages where god turns his anger towards people. You can say for all of these that he loves them while he's ordering their slaughter or killing them himself but that makes little sense. It's like saying "I hate you so much but I love you at the same time and I want you to die".


I'm sinning by arguing that something else is a sin? Wow...

*sigh*, I think my argument went straight over your head. If you say that you hate a sin of a person (but still don't hate the person) then that hatred, according to the Galatians passage is a sin.


SEXUAL IMMORTALITY, buddy. Normal heterosexual sex isn't a sin.

Did you actually read what I wrote or did you just spew something random in the hopes that it makes sense? I'll repeat it as you didn't seem to read it last time: ORGIES are a sin. Where did I say anything of sexual immortality? No where. Why you are using that as an argument I have no clue. If you have a heterosexual ORGIE then that's a sin, that was my point when you implied all heterosexual sex is not a sin. Read carefully next time.


What?


Part of this relates back to Galatians but not all of it. Since you claimed to have taken the bible literally (or almost all literally), then you should know that god orders killing of sinners, killing an entire town if one person disbelieves, etc... . So, if you were to follow it literally for it, then last time I checked, killing is violating the 6th commandment. I hope that it is now simple enough to make sense for you.

Wrong.

Wrong.

Wrong.

Wrong.

Carry on.

First link did not give a definite answer as to whether all sin is equal to God. It gave an answer of "yes and no", depending on which passages you took. So that link shows both of us can be right.

Second link does not show sins are unequal but rather it shows the opposite. Read the first line of it just to show you:
"I know of no passage in the Bible that indicates that one sin is greater than another". Sadly, I was not mentioning the punishment for the sins but rather just how one sin according to god is viewed in comparison to another.

Third link shows both: all sins are equal in that you deserve god's punishment but unequal if you take the argument of including who is offended, did the offender know that the action was a sin, etc... .

Fourth link, well, you didn't even bother to show a specific article but rather a google result. Rather lazy on your part. Sadly, some of those show all sins are equal while some show all sins are not equal. It depends on the view you're using.

But sadly, I was not arguing over the punishments of all sins being equal. If I were, then you'd be right that they're unequal. Sadly, I wasn't.

[Mind forte]

OK, if he loves everyone, then why does he purposely have them suffer? Why does he kill an entire town if only one person disbelieves (see Deuteronomy 13:13-19)? If he hates the sin but not the sinner, then why does the person end up being punished? You can answer this by throwing around the statement that he still loves them but I find that to be rather unusual and does not make sense. Before someone is to be judged, to me, the person and their sins are viewed separately so you can love the person but hate the sins of the person. That may not be how it is written in the bible but it's how I've come to think of it. When you're judged, you seem to in a way, pay for your sins and more than once god has said he hates the person.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/notkill.html
Read that






Did you actually read what I wrote or did you just spew something random in the hopes that it makes sense? I'll repeat it as you didn't seem to read it last time: ORGIES are a sin. Where did I say anything of sexual immortality? No where. Why you are using that as an argument I have no clue. If you have a heterosexual ORGIE then that's a sin, that was my point when you implied all heterosexual sex is not a sin. Read carefully next time.

Sexual immortality has to do with sexual related sin. I was implying that normal heterosexual sex as defined by the bible isn't a sin.
I.E. Married heterosexual couple having sex. Did I really have to explain that?



Part of this relates back to Galatians but not all of it. Since you claimed to have taken the bible literally (or almost all literally), then you should know that god orders killing of sinners, killing an entire town if one person disbelieves, etc... . So, if you were to follow it literally for it, then last time I checked, killing is violating the 6th commandment. I hope that it is now simple enough to make sense for you.
Murder is something that's not justified
Again, see http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/notkill.html

[INFERNO]

Sexual immortality has to do with sexual related sin. I was implying that normal heterosexual sex as defined by the bible isn't a sin.
I.E. Married heterosexual couple having sex. Did I really have to explain that?

OK, you obviously still seem to not grasp what I'm saying. I'm agreeing that normal heterosexual sex is NOT a sin. I was refuting the point you made when you said ALL heterosexual sex is not a sin. Pay attention to the wording, it's simple to grasp.


Murder is something that's not justified
Again, see http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/notkill.html

For the love of god... you're really showing that you do take everything literally. If you take the bible literally then you would have to carry out the deeds that it says to do. Your article is regarding god violating his commandments, which is NOT what I'm talking about. I'm saying YOU as a follower would have to follow the bible literally as that is what you claim to do. This is not about what god does but rather about what YOU do. Once again, actually read and try to understand what I'm saying instead of random gibberish that you're using.

To make it real simple because I think I have to, YOU ARE NOT GOD, therefore, that article is NOT in your support.

[Poetic Folly]

I'm an atheist, so this doesn't matter to me, but anyways the bible doesn't mention masturbation ANYWHERE. At all.

The story of Onan is NOT about masturbation, by the way. It's about "pulling out" and not impregnating your sister-in-law after her husband died (as was the custom back then!) :D

Yes it does.
It's all about translating it though.
But it does mention masturbation explicitly, what else does 'dropping your seed' mean? And I don't think it was gardening :lol:

[Sage]

Yes it does.
It's all about translating it though.
But it does mention masturbation explicitly, what else does 'dropping your seed' mean? And I don't think it was gardening :lol:

...It means pulling out of a vagina before you ejaculate. You clearly do not understand the story of Onan. If you read the story in context, you would clearly see that it has nothing to do with masturbation.

[Mind forte]

You said why did God destroy cities if he loves people, part of that was in there.
For God hating sinners
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/3170
When did I ever say all types of heterosexual sex anyway? You quoted me saying what I was implying the whole time.

[Ripplemagne]

First link did not give a definite answer as to whether all sin is equal to God. It gave an answer of "yes and no", depending on which passages you took. So that link shows both of us can be right.

Second link does not show sins are unequal but rather it shows the opposite. Read the first line of it just to show you:
"I know of no passage in the Bible that indicates that one sin is greater than another". Sadly, I was not mentioning the punishment for the sins but rather just how one sin according to god is viewed in comparison to another.

Third link shows both: all sins are equal in that you deserve god's punishment but unequal if you take the argument of including who is offended, did the offender know that the action was a sin, etc... .

Fourth link, well, you didn't even bother to show a specific article but rather a google result. Rather lazy on your part. Sadly, some of those show all sins are equal while some show all sins are not equal. It depends on the view you're using.

But sadly, I was not arguing over the punishments of all sins being equal. If I were, then you'd be right that they're unequal. Sadly, I wasn't.

My mistake. I read all of those articles awhile ago and recognized the layout and just posted them.

When I have the lust to do so, I'll enthrall myself in the religious discussions. Haven't been in the mood lately. But, summed up, nothing in the Bible indicates that one sin is equal to the other. If you can find a verse that says the contrary, I will concede.

[INFERNO]

You said why did God destroy cities if he loves people, part of that was in there.
For God hating sinners
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/3170
When did I ever say all types of heterosexual sex anyway? You quoted me saying what I was implying the whole time.

Yes I did mention god destroying cities while loving people, however, my argument is about how it looks in god's eyes and how it can affect you.

Here is the quote:

Heterosexuals have sex for reproducing and pleasure, which is fine because it's not a sin.

Seeing as how you did not specify a particular kind of heterosexual sex, then the only option left is that you're referring to all of it. If you wanted it to be a specific kind then you should have said so but you did not.

As for your link, all of it revolves around interpretation and if metonymy was intended by the writer. We don't know, the author of your link gave one interpretation, which does not mean that it was the intended interpretation nor does it mean that it was the absolutely correct one.

But what I find to be probably the funniest is your hypocrisy. You claim to take the bible literally as a true Christian yet here you are using a source that is using metaphorical interpretations :lol:. You're just citing damn near anything to support your side even if it means going against the view that you take. So, now I have to ask, do you take the bible to be metaphorical or do you still take your literal stand? If you do take your literal stand, then does it make sense for you to use something that is non-literal? Absolutely not. In fact, you even said the bible should be taken literally, so can you find a quote that supports your view? :lol:

[Atonement]

As a person working with his faith, I know a lot on the topic.

First of all, masturbation is not a sin. The act of ejaculating outside a woman, is not a sin. Lust is a sin.

Adultery
(27) "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' (28) But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (29) If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (30) And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Right, so as it quite plainly says, lusting is a sin even if there is no action. Looking at a woman or man in a sexual manner is the same as doing the act you did in your mind, to God. So, unless you can whack it without any stimulation or imagination, masturbation is a sin.

[Mind forte]

Seeing as how you did not specify a particular kind of heterosexual sex, then the only option left is that you're referring to all of it. If you wanted it to be a specific kind then you should have said so but you did not.
I'm sorry I was not more specific.



But what I find to be probably the funniest is your hypocrisy. You claim to take the bible literally as a true Christian
Perhaps I should have been more specific and maybe literal is to strong of a word. I accept everything as literal except the times the writers used metophors, saying, so and so. I kind of went over the original issue and got excited to end up failing in the end. Good job Inferno, I'll make sure to be more specific next time.

[INFERNO]

Perhaps I should have been more specific and maybe literal is to strong of a word. I accept everything as literal except the times the writers used metophors, saying, so and so. I kind of went over the original issue and got excited to end up failing in the end. Good job Inferno, I'll make sure to be more specific next time.

I'm confused, if literal is too strong of a word, then why did you use it again? I'm unsure what you mean now by you take everything as literal... . The problem is, one can interpret a passage or any piece of literature for that matter using different methods of interpretation. So, while a writer may use an obvious metaphor, the usage of things like the metonymy and other techniques can be used at the reader's discretion.

[Mind forte]

I'm confused, if literal is too strong of a word, then why did you use it again? I'm unsure what you mean now by you take everything as literal... .
Everything except what I mentioned is literal.

, while a writer may use an obvious metaphor, the usage of things like the metonymy and other techniques can be used at the reader's discretion.
You're right.

[pkid]

That's still picking and choosing- they just happen to choose everything.

technically its not picking and choosing because they didnt pick a certain thing, but they did choose to follow everything

[INFERNO]

technically its not picking and choosing because they didnt pick a certain thing, but they did choose to follow everything

I don't see how it cant be picking yet it can be choosing everything. If you pick something, you've also chosen something. You can add if you want, selecting, to make it picking and choosing and selecting. They picked the religion, they chose the religion and they selected the religion. Then they picked the beliefs to follow, they chose the beliefs to follow and the selected the beliefs to follow. I really don't understand how you can say they didn't pick something yet they still managed to choose something. Explain that with and/or without selecting something.

[Sage]

technically its not picking and choosing because they didnt pick a certain thing, but they did choose to follow everything

Semantics!

Your point is moot.