A Challenge to Hypocrisy

[Ripplemagne]

So, I figured I'd share the first of my ARG articles with VT.

So, I've, recently made a challenge to a few select individuals regarding a certain ethical issue we came across. I asked them to justify the inconsistency in their moral outlook and it seems as though none could. The following is an excerpt from the thread that ignited the whole discussion:

"So theres these kids that I see quite a bit, not my friends, they harass me and my girlfriend and throw stuff at us when they see us together, and more then once I've had to redetail their faces (and one probably won't have kids) because they tried hurting her, but they seem bent on making our lives miserable =/
The only reason that they're doing this is because my girlfriend is my younger sister. Anyone have advice on what to do? I'm truly afraid that I'll go too far one day and she'll have to visit me in prison."

Now, what are your thoughts regarding this? Disgust? Anger? Frustration? Shock? Understandable.

Continue reading here. (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=408674623&blogId=439811311)

[Camazotz]

I believe that incestuous relationships are taboo because of the legend that children of couples of the same family are usually born deformed. While it is true, the percentages are surprisingly low. I believe everyone is against incest because that is what they are brought up to believe.

I personally have nothing wrong with incestuous relationships. Is it "weird"? Only if "weird" means uncommon. Human emotions can cause people to "love" anybody, regardless of anything. It is definitely out of the ordinary, but that does not mean one should be ridiculed of it. I think it would be okay for people to debate with their beliefs and argue why it may be wrong, but to physically harm someone because of who they love is wrong. I would encourage to breed with someone outside the immediate family because of less risk of a deformed child, but I'm not going to force someone to not love someone.

[NightFighter]

Everyone is related to eachother somehow. Siblings have a very strong relationship and if they wish to to date eachother then who are we to judge.
We certainly shouldnt hurt them for that reason.

[The Freed]

I personally have nothing wrong with incestuous relationships. Is it "weird"? Only if "weird" means uncommon. Human emotions can cause people to "love" anybody, regardless of anything. It is definitely out of the ordinary, but that does not mean one should be ridiculed of it. I think it would be okay for people to debate with their beliefs and argue why it may be wrong, but to physically harm someone because of who they love is wrong. I would encourage to breed with someone outside the immediate family because of less risk of a deformed child, but I'm not going to force someone to not love someone.

God, why aren't we best friends and all.
You're highly intelligent man.


Seeing this thread reminds me of a Doc I saw on BBC America.

[Maverick]

On your point about adoption. Homosexual couples can have all the sex they want and still no child can be produced. On the other hand, should a brother and sister have sex there is risk of pregnancy. Sure there are birth control and condoms but they aren't full proof. So even with adoption as an option if they have sex like any other healthy couple does they are still risking pregnancy.

[The Freed]

On your point about adoption. Homosexual couples can have all the sex they want and still no child can be produced. On the other hand, should a brother and sister have sex there is risk of pregnancy. Sure there are birth control and condoms but they aren't full proof. So even with adoption as an option if they have sex like any other healthy couple does they are still risking pregnancy.

Isn't there another area they could stick to?
I don't want to get into details as this isn't the area for that kind of discussion.

[Ripplemagne]

On your point about adoption. Homosexual couples can have all the sex they want and still no child can be produced. On the other hand, should a brother and sister have sex there is risk of pregnancy. Sure there are birth control and condoms but they aren't full proof. So even with adoption as an option if they have sex like any other healthy couple does they are still risking pregnancy.

...So?

[INFERNO]

If they wish to date as brother and sister, then I see nothing wrong with that. It may seem uncommon, however, uncommon events are not always a negative event. For example, in a mob of 100 people, none of them voice their dislike or concerns about something so they keep mobbing away, except for the one person who does. In that mob, that one person would be seen as uncommon, but is it bad? No.

What is a relationship between two individuals (regardless of gender) that are not immediate family members based on? Love, trust, understanding, etc... . Is that any different than this brother-sister relationship? I'd say it is not.

Of course, there is the issue with in-breeding, however, if they are simply dating and not having sex, then that's settled. But, if they are or just speaking in general terms, while it has a higher chance of spreading a possible disorder or resulting in a deformed child, I do not see that as a valid reason for the protesting party to attack the brother-sister couple. Couples who are non-immediate family members can produce a deformed child, so why not go wailing away on those couples?

Overall, I find it childish and immature for the protesting party to physically assault the brother-sister couple. The brother assaulting them beyond the realm of self-defense isn't a great show of maturity on his part (i.e. telling someone to not harm them while beating their skull in). However, this always makes me wonder, why cant people just let others be? Suppose the brother-sister couple is having sex, what harm does that do to the protesting party? It does nothing. The couple being a couple does nothing either. Showing you're uncomfortable with something by beating them up makes me wonder how different we are from our caveman ancestors, going around with a club/bare knuckles and wacking whatever or whomever. Through all these years, we still have to resort to primitive violence to voice our opinions... . Let the couple be and if they have something against it, say it in a civil, mature manner or just not at all.

[knight0022]

Sir Ripple Magne just want an ex cuse to date his hot brothers Sir Knight IMO

Sir Knight

[lamboman43]

Hey thats sexual harrassment. I dont care how much i dont like Ripple, but dont say that to People. I've been treated like that. IT IS HELL!!! If you dont want to be harrassed then dont harrass.

[Ripplemagne]

It's called a joke, mon ami. Lighten up.

[knight0022]

Hey thats sexual harrassment. I dont care how much i dont like Ripple, but dont say that to People. I've been treated like that. IT IS HELL!!! If you dont want to be harrassed then dont harrass.

how is it sexual harasses to say he want to date me? is there some thing wrong with being gay? is that what you are saying? bigot... IMO

Sir Knight

[The Freed]

Hey that's sexual harassment. I don't care how much i don't like Ripple, but don't say that to People. I've been treated like that. IT IS HELL!!! If you don't want to be harassed then don't harass.


Please Stay on Topic.

[Zephyr]

If you want to date your sibling, whatever.
You can't help who you love.
But it's wrong in the sense that if a child were produced, there's a great chance that child will have genetic problems, which I think is wrong.
We're all human,
We came from the same spawn.
But if the mother and father of a child are too closely related,
It's not fair to that child to have that great risk of genetic abnormalities.

I have a friend who's parents were cousins,
Her and her siblings turned out okay luckily.
I love her parents to death,
But at the same time I have to think,
"What the hell?".

[Oblivion]

Dating family members, to me, is whatever. I'd never do it, but as long as there is no baby made, I'm fine with others doing it.

The only time I wouldn't be OK with them is when they have sex and possibly become pregnant; the baby would most likely be mentally retarded or impaired, which is really not OK to bring upon a child.

[Modus Operandi]

If the people who do these things are doing it for religion's sake, then they're HUGE hypocrits.(This is a tottally hypothetical situation). Though Christianity frowns on incest, it also frowns on violence. Hmm... bigot-much?(The people that beat them up, not the writer of the account or the OP)

As for my opinion, Camazotz pretty much summed it up.

[INFERNO]

If the people who do these things are doing it for religion's sake, then they're HUGE hypocrits.(This is a tottally hypothetical situation). Though Christianity frowns on incest, it also frowns on violence. Hmm... bigot-much?(The people that beat them up, not the writer of the account or the OP)


I'm not understanding how they'd be hypocrites if they were dating each other for religious reasons. Christianity frowns on incest and violence, however, that does not mean that all religious beliefs would.


The only time I wouldn't be OK with them is when they have sex and possibly become pregnant; the baby would most likely be mentally retarded or impaired, which is really not OK to bring upon a child.

So, is it OK to bring that upon a child whose parents are not immediate family members or is that still not OK?

[Oblivion]

So, is it OK to bring that upon a child whose parents are not immediate family members or is that still not OK?

If they are immediate family, they know the child is likely to come out with mental impairments; that's why that's wrong. If they aren't immediate family, and they child still comes out with mental disabilities, then it's still not fair, but still not the parents fault; every parent takes a chance when they have a baby that it will be mentally retarded.

[Aneklusmos]

Dating between brother and sister is a two faced thing in my opinion. One: You can't help who you love. its not a choice, just like i believe homosexuality isn't a choice. Two: I don't think it is fair to the children to have genetic instabilities passed onto them. Question for you. Is there any difference between a sister-brother relationship and a father-daughter or mother-son relationship?

[Ripplemagne]

Question for you.

By "you", do you mean me or do you mean everyone?

[Aneklusmos]

both. but mainly you. others can answer if they like

[INFERNO]

Assuming the brother is of similar age as the daughter, then there is little to no legal action to occur if both are willing participants. In a mother-son or father-daughter, if there is sex involved, then it may be sex with a minor. The other major difference is that it is a violation of social norms so others are more likely to frown on it before even knowing just who the participants are. I think there would also be more stigma and negative stereotyping to it in comparison to a relationship where the two parties are not immediate family members. I'm not sure if it would be seen more negatively than a relationship between an adult and minor who are not immediate family members (assuming sexual and non-sexual relationships in both).

Children can have birth disorders regardless if the parents are father-daughter, mother-son or daughter-son. There is a greater chance of it occurring in most cases, however, it still can occur when the parents are not immediate family members. So I consider that argument to be a rather weak one as it is a constant.

[goin to work]

if there biological then its just wrong if the kids are adopeded its not wrong but its a little odd

[Ripplemagne]

I'm waiting until more opinions are given before I give mine. I like to see everyone else's reaction and being that I made the opening statement, it's only right to give everyone else a chance to get their points across.

But in my view? There's a difference, but it's not really any more depraved. The only difference I can see is the naivete of the youngins leading to it, while a parent is time tested and should know better.