Gay rights and God +bible+gays=?

[punkjake]

I think God loves everyone, I'm starting to realize how ignoret i use to be about gays(there weird and they can chose weather to be gay,I'm straight by the way).The bible is just a book to help us comprehend our God and tell us about Jesus,GOD DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE:yes:!Plus all the translations and such,God loves EVERYONE.Know for gay and Bi rights,I think they sud be able to adopt children because some of us retard Str8s would have kids and not want them and let them be in a foster home,which is not! cool,to were a gay wants to take of the child and give it a home instead of letting him/her starve!!!Yes gays do the rite to work,duh! !Marriage.I think it isn't our right to choose weather they cud marry,its there chose, but i think they should be able because that be like not letting straight people be able to marry each other:yes:.So hopefully people gay,str8 and bi and asexual XD (sorry if it offends you)will get message :yes:.Tell me what you think about my little big speech.Gay discrimination,I think its wrong to judge,fire,or even tease someone who is "different" in your eye's.Bosses who don't hire or fire people because they're gay should be reported and have to pay a fine.

:EDIT:
I had made some changes and to INFERNO advice :yes:.

[clr9823]

I think that gay couples should be allowed to adopt children just like straight couples, but I'm not sure if the world is ready. At my school, gay people are bullied alot, and combine that with the 'your mother' jokes that seem oh-so popular at the moment I think it would make lots of kids really unhappy. It is a shame though cause I'm sure they would make great parents.

On another note: My cat is really unwell and I think I just saw him curl up for the last time...

[vito22andolini]

They dont Choose to be gay or bi , they r born like that . its natural for them , not a choice and thats perfect

[AMERICANelite123]

im tired of people thinking gays and lesbians are any different! this nation USA is sposed to be a nation NOT based on religion but with the way they are treating these people its obvious this nation is still based on religion! my sister is a lesbian and my cousin is to and my othe cousin is gay. they want to be able to get married legally and not just have a ceramony they want to have kids together and so on they cant stand it and neither can i!!!

[Blue63]

GOD DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE

Actually he did, the Holy Spirit guided the Evangelists (bible writers) to be infallible, and with the Holy Trinity, Holy Spirit = God the Father, it's all one in the same.

But otherwise yes, I believe in Gay rights, and I'm a strong Roman catholic, there is more tolerance for gay's in the church now a days, especially protestant churches (some). The only thing that the church is not going to budge on is marriage, no gay marriage that is. Other than that, I think gay's should have the same rights. I absolutely hate the term Gay used as the new un-cool term, I refrain from using, it's just an insult.

[clr9823]

Actually he did, the Holy Spirit guided the Evangelists (bible writers) to be infallible, and with the Holy Trinity, Holy Spirit = God the Father, it's all one in the same.

But otherwise yes, I believe in Gay rights, and I'm a strong Roman catholic, there is more tolerance for gay's in the church now a days, especially protestant churches (some). The only thing that the church is not going to budge on is marriage, no gay marriage that is. Other than that, I think gay's should have the same rights. I absolutely hate the term Gay used as the new un-cool term, I refrain from using, it's just an insult.

If god loves anyone, why won't you budge on the whole marriage issue. I'm not going to start about my disdain for religion, but you cannot claim that you and your organisation want the same rights for everyone if you believe that some groups of people should not be allowed to get married. Marriage is a big part of peoples lives and not allowing them to do that WOULD be depriving them of their rights that they are entitled to.

[Sage]

Actually he did, the Holy Spirit guided the Evangelists (bible writers) to be infallible, and with the Holy Trinity, Holy Spirit = God the Father, it's all one in the same.

Hey hey hey, man. Take it to Ramblings of the Wise, please, that's a seperate issue.

In my opinion, it's silly to use religion as an excuse to dislike somebody or a group of people.

[INFERNO]

I think God loves everyone, I'm starting to realize how ignoret i use to be about gays(there weird and they can chose weather to b gay,I'm str8 by the way).The bible is just a book to help us comprehend our God and tell us about Jesus,GOD DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE:yes:!Plus all the translations and such,God loves EVERYONE.Know for gay and Bi rights,I think they sud be able to adopt children because some of us retard Str8s wud have kids and not want them and let them be in a foster home,which is not! cool,to were a gay wants to take of the child and give it a home instead of letting him/her starve!!!I think the ass hole dudes who dn't let gay work at there jobs(IE bosses) shud pay a fine.Yes gays do the rite to work,duh! !Marriage.I think it isn't our right to choose weather they cud marry,its there chose, but i think they shud be able becuz that be like not letting str8 ppl be able to marry each otha:yes:.So hopefully ppl gay,str8 and bi and asexual XD (sorry if it offends you)will get message :yes:.Tell me what you think about my little big speech.

First, can you write coherently and without this slang of "sud", "str8", etc...? I know it is a teen forum but at least could you type properly? When I see something written like that, the first thing that pops in my mind is that the person is likely immature and it's probably going to contain a whole lot of rubbish. Now, onto the rest of your "little big speech"...

There is much debate over whether people choose their sexual orientation or whether it's more or less hardwired into them. Much research has been conducted to show that there may be biological explanations or rather differences amongst people only with a certain sexual orientation.

The "asshole dudes", should not be fined for not hiring a homosexual. That is completely absurd (although I don't think you were going down that route, the incoherence you bring makes it harder to discern what you meant to say). If you meant firing them on grounds of being homosexual, then instead of fining them, how about bringing up an issue of discrimination, unfair termination of one's job, etc...?

I do support homosexuals being allowed to adopt children and gay marriage. If two people love each other enough to consider marriage, then who cares what their orientation is? I find it to be a horrible excuse to use one's religion to discriminate a large group of people simply on the basis of a certain characteristic they possess: their sexual orientation, not whether they are believers of your faith, just the fact that they're not heterosexual.


But otherwise yes, I believe in Gay rights, and I'm a strong Roman catholic, there is more tolerance for gay's in the church now a days, especially protestant churches (some). The only thing that the church is not going to budge on is marriage, no gay marriage that is. Other than that, I think gay's should have the same rights. I absolutely hate the term Gay used as the new un-cool term, I refrain from using, it's just an insult.

I'm curious, if you believe in gay rights, then you obviously have some lenience with your faith, so why not be more lenient and support gay marriage? You say you support and believe in gay rights, so why not go a bit more and support a rather large right, marriage?

im tired of people thinking gays and lesbians are any different! this nation USA is sposed to be a nation NOT based on religion but with the way they are treating these people its obvious this nation is still based on religion! my sister is a lesbian and my cousin is to and my othe cousin is gay. they want to be able to get married legally and not just have a ceramony they want to have kids together and so on they cant stand it and neither can i!!!

Judging by your username, I'd have thought you would have known that the USA has a deeply rooted religious background. Hint: there's something on the currency about that. If it is not supposed to be based on religion, then why does something so common as your currency have some phrase regarding a god on it?

[Blue63]

If god loves anyone, why won't you budge on the whole marriage issue. I'm not going to start about my disdain for religion, but you cannot claim that you and your organisation want the same rights for everyone if you believe that some groups of people should not be allowed to get married. Marriage is a big part of peoples lives and not allowing them to do that WOULD be depriving them of their rights that they are entitled to.

In all political purposes, I have nothing against gay marriage, if they just want to file a joint tax report and live together, I'm not going to stop them. But since this thread is about gays and God, marriage is going to be seen as religious. Since he referred to the bible (not the torah or qu'ran) it's clear the distinction is for the "christian" God. In Christianity, marriage should be reserved for man and woman, as it has in the first days with Adam and Eve. God's first human creations. When it comes to the church, same sex marriage just seems out of the question. Everyone has a vocation, Holy Orders, Married Life, or Single life. Married life results in having kids, raising them right and strengthening faith. Since two men/women can't naturally have kids, wouldn't that throw things off? Sure, they can adopt or use a sperm donor, but that causes a lot of gray area. In my opinion right now, the gray area shouldn't be further examined. It would open up a can of worms, and the last thing the church needs is another debate, another Great Schism. The church is weak as it is.

Hey hey hey, man. Take it to Ramblings of the Wise, please, that's a seperate issue.

Don't want to get into a debate, just want to do a bit of a christian correction, not argue about Gods existence.


I'm curious, if you believe in gay rights, then you obviously have some lenience with your faith, so why not be more lenient and support gay marriage? You say you support and believe in gay rights, so why not go a bit more and support a rather large right, marriage?


I feel I've been lenient enough, God loves everyone, and has created everyone in his likeness and image (I'm not saying God is gay or anything absurd like that). Jesus proclaims God's mercy and love in the New Testament, he loves people of homosexual orientation, after all I believe people were born gay or straight in the end. You see, my father believes all Gay people go straight to hell, as with all non-Christians. I think this is absurd, after all he is Lutheran, I'm catholic as is my mom. Within the entire Christian faith there is constant debate about many things, Gay rights being one of them. I've come along way personally, and I think I've reached my limit, gay people are people to, they don't deserve to be prejudiced against. I just believe marriage, is a man and woman thing. As you can see this is changing throughout the country, what is it now, 4 states that allow it? I'm not sure. Religiously, I just don't see it fit.

[Spin]

Well, since not everyone believes in god, and there's a thing called seperation of church and state, religion shouldn't even be an issue. Something that really ticks me off is when religious people are like "Oh I'm all for gays to get the same benefits as marriage but just don't call it marriage". Hello?!?! What else would you call it? Marriage is between two people that love eachother whether they're gay or straight. Marriage isn't JUST a religious thing, there's a thing called secular marriage. Hell marriages don't even have to be in a church! I hate how religious people think they can monopolize a word like that, they do not own that word!

[Spin]

In all political purposes, I have nothing against gay marriage, if they just want to file a joint tax report and live together, I'm not going to stop them. But since this thread is about gays and God, marriage is going to be seen as religious. Since he referred to the bible (not the torah or qu'ran) it's clear the distinction is for the "christian" God. In Christianity, marriage should be reserved for man and woman, as it has in the first days with Adam and Eve. God's first human creations. When it comes to the church, same sex marriage just seems out of the question. Everyone has a vocation, Holy Orders, Married Life, or Single life. Married life results in having kids, raising them right and strengthening faith. Since two men/women can't naturally have kids, wouldn't that throw things off? Sure, they can adopt or use a sperm donor, but that causes a lot of gray area. In my opinion right now, the gray area shouldn't be further examined. It would open up a can of worms, and the last thing the church needs is another debate, another Great Schism. The church is weak as it is.



Don't want to get into a debate, just want to do a bit of a christian correction, not argue about Gods existence.



I feel I've been lenient enough, God loves everyone, and has created everyone in his likeness and image (I'm not saying God is gay or anything absurd like that). Jesus proclaims God's mercy and love in the New Testament, he loves people of homosexual orientation, after all I believe people were born gay or straight in the end. You see, my father believes all Gay people go straight to hell, as with all non-Christians. I think this is absurd, after all he is Lutheran, I'm catholic as is my mom. Within the entire Christian faith there is constant debate about many things, Gay rights being one of them. I've come along way personally, and I think I've reached my limit, gay people are people to, they don't deserve to be prejudiced against. I just believe marriage, is a man and woman thing. As you can see this is changing throughout the country, what is it now, 4 states that allow it? I'm not sure. Religiously, I just don't see it fit.


Marriage isn't just a religious thing. You do not own that word. Gays have a RIGHT to marry, and for you to take that away is just wrong. I'm sorry but you are no better than the people who are prejudice against gays.

[Blue63]

Marriage isn't just a religious thing. You do not own that word. Gays have a RIGHT to marry, and for you to take that away is just wrong. I'm sorry but you are no better than the people who are prejudice against gays.

First sentence of my response addresses that, if it's a secular marriage I'm okay with that, it's when it's religiously an issue occurs. I specifically mentioned that. Since this thread is about God and the Bible, that's where I'm debating marriage.

In all political purposes, I have nothing against gay marriage, if they just want to file a joint tax report and live together, I'm not going to stop them. But since this thread is about gays and God, marriage is going to be seen as religious. Since he referred to the bible (not the torah or qu'ran) it's clear the distinction is for the "christian" God. In Christianity, marriage should be reserved for man and woman, as it has in the first days with Adam and Eve. God's first human creations. When it comes to the church, same sex marriage just seems out of the question. Everyone has a vocation, Holy Orders, Married Life, or Single life. Married life results in having kids, raising them right and strengthening faith. Since two men/women can't naturally have kids, wouldn't that throw things off? Sure, they can adopt or use a sperm donor, but that causes a lot of gray area. In my opinion right now, the gray area shouldn't be further examined. It would open up a can of worms, and the last thing the church needs is another debate, another Great Schism. The church is weak as it is.

[Oblivion]

I don't get why gay marriage isn't legal nation wide. The only thing preventing it is religion, and to include religion in law making is against the constitution and the founding of America. So... What's up with us?

[punkjake]

Actually he did, the Holy Spirit guided the Evangelists (bible writers) to be infallible, and with the Holy Trinity, Holy Spirit = God the Father, it's all one in the same.

But otherwise yes, I believe in Gay rights, and I'm a strong Roman catholic, there is more tolerance for gay's in the church now a days, especially protestant churches (some). The only thing that the church is not going to budge on is marriage, no gay marriage that is. Other than that, I think gay's should have the same rights. I absolutely hate the term Gay used as the new un-cool term, I refrain from using, it's just an insult.

to be honest thats what i meant :P but he did not write word from word they wrote it, god inspired them,oh well this isn't a catholic debate web :P

If god loves anyone, why won't you budge on the whole marriage issue. I'm not going to start about my disdain for religion, but you cannot claim that you and your organisation want the same rights for everyone if you believe that some groups of people should not be allowed to get married. Marriage is a big part of peoples lives and not allowing them to do that WOULD be depriving them of their rights that they are entitled to.

yes,god loves everyone and i think he wud allow them to marry :3 but i can't speak for God :( but he loves them

First, can you write coherently and without this slang of "sud", "str8", etc...? I know it is a teen forum but at least could you type properly? When I see something written like that, the first thing that pops in my mind is that the person is likely immature and it's probably going to contain a whole lot of rubbish. Now, onto the rest of your "little big speech"...

There is much debate over whether people choose their sexual orientation or whether it's more or less hardwired into them. Much research has been conducted to show that there may be biological explanations or rather differences amongst people only with a certain sexual orientation.

The "asshole dudes", should not be fined for not hiring a homosexual. That is completely absurd (although I don't think you were going down that route, the incoherence you bring makes it harder to discern what you meant to say). If you meant firing them on grounds of being homosexual, then instead of fining them, how about bringing up an issue of discrimination, unfair termination of one's job, etc...?

I do support homosexuals being allowed to adopt children and gay marriage. If two people love each other enough to consider marriage, then who cares what their orientation is? I find it to be a horrible excuse to use one's religion to discriminate a large group of people simply on the basis of a certain characteristic they possess: their sexual orientation, not whether they are believers of your faith, just the fact that they're not heterosexual.



I'm curious, if you believe in gay rights, then you obviously have some lenience with your faith, so why not be more lenient and support gay marriage? You say you support and believe in gay rights, so why not go a bit more and support a rather large right, marriage?



Judging by your username, I'd have thought you would have known that the USA has a deeply rooted religious background. Hint: there's something on the currency about that. If it is not supposed to be based on religion, then why does something so common as your currency have some phrase regarding a god on it?
i don't know what your problem is dude but you need to chill,and stoping be over critical to everyone. oh yeah PS Ferno not all of us are grammer snobs like U!N0w a'nit that a lil mean no nice comment XD lol take TAHT!!!!Yahh I'm a little
immature so what!
!!!!11!Please don't double post. Use the edit or mutli-quote button to change your post, or add extra quotes. Thanks.
~Nick [Oblivion]
sorry :(

[Spin]

First sentence of my response addresses that, if it's a secular marriage I'm okay with that, it's when it's religiously an issue occurs. I specifically mentioned that. Since this thread is about God and the Bible, that's where I'm debating marriage.


Oh damn, I really need to stop reading posts fast.

[HelloWorld123456]

Actually he did, the Holy Spirit guided the Evangelists (bible writers) to be infallible, and with the Holy Trinity, Holy Spirit = God the Father, it's all one in the same.

agree 9000000000% God DID write the Holy Bible !

[HOLEinyoursoul]

God doesn't exist... seriously. And why would you even care if he loved you or not. Just convert religions or something. Then you won't have to worry about some magical fat guy ruining everyone's life.

[punkjake]

God doesn't exist... seriously. And why would you even care if he loved you or not. Just convert religions or something. Then you won't have to worry about some magical fat guy ruining everyone's life.

you know what? Screw you i didn't ask for that kinda respond like that and you know that fat magical man in the sky?I hope he kicks... Will a mod plz lock this or move it to Ramblings of the Wise

[Oblivion]

Moving on request.

[INFERNO]

I feel I've been lenient enough, God loves everyone, and has created everyone in his likeness and image (I'm not saying God is gay or anything absurd like that). Jesus proclaims God's mercy and love in the New Testament, he loves people of homosexual orientation, after all I believe people were born gay or straight in the end. You see, my father believes all Gay people go straight to hell, as with all non-Christians. I think this is absurd, after all he is Lutheran, I'm catholic as is my mom. Within the entire Christian faith there is constant debate about many things, Gay rights being one of them. I've come along way personally, and I think I've reached my limit, gay people are people to, they don't deserve to be prejudiced against. I just believe marriage, is a man and woman thing. As you can see this is changing throughout the country, what is it now, 4 states that allow it? I'm not sure. Religiously, I just don't see it fit.

I'm still curious as to why you are lenient only up to a certain point. You defend homosexuals from religious damnation (i.e. being told they're off to hell) and show you support homosexuals getting respect, including being against prejudice. By supporting them, you've already gone against the Christian idea that a man and man cannot or should not be in a relationship together, yet with them being equal people, it would make sense for them to be allowed marriage. But you are against that. I'm confused as to why you were lenient this much yet in your support of homosexuality, you go against homosexual marriage.


i don't know what your problem is dude but you need to chill,and stoping be over critical to everyone. oh yeah PS Ferno not all of us are grammer snobs like U!N0w a'nit that a lil mean no nice comment XD lol take TAHT!!!!Yahh I'm a little
immature so what!


:lol::lol::lol:... I need to chill? Grammar snob? No, I just think that if you take the time to post something where you want someone to answer it, ideally with some intellectual ability, you take the little bit extra effort to make it coherent.

But, yes... I definitely took that, you're totally the man :yes:

[punkjake]

I'm still curious as to why you are lenient only up to a certain point. You defend homosexuals from religious damnation (i.e. being told they're off to hell) and show you support homosexuals getting respect, including being against prejudice. By supporting them, you've already gone against the Christian idea that a man and man cannot or should not be in a relationship together, yet with them being equal people, it would make sense for them to be allowed marriage. But you are against that. I'm confused as to why you were lenient this much yet in your support of homosexuality, you go against homosexual marriage.



:lol::lol::lol:... I need to chill? Grammar snob? No, I just think that if you take the time to post something where you want someone to answer it, ideally with some intellectual ability, you take the little bit extra effort to make it coherent.

But, yes... I definitely took that, you're totally the man :yes:
lol sorry i snapped on you T_T :whoops:

[Jean Poutine]

(I'm not saying God is gay or anything absurd like that).
Absurd how?

[Camazotz]

I believe that all people deserve equal rights, and people should not have less rights because of race, gender, age, sexual orientation, or religion. Gays should have every right heterosexual people have, including marriage.

[goin to work]

god made them how they are i hate fucking relegous people who dont get it we all need to accept them for them selfs

[Atonement]

First, please use proper grammar. My eyes hurt just trying to read the OP. Second, God did not write nor translate the Bible. You cannot say that the Holy Spirit wrote it. We have free will, and we aren't puppets to the Holy Spirit. If God dropped the Bible out of no where, okay, but he did not write it himself.

Gay rights:
Marriage - Why is it in the legal system anyway? Marriage is a religious (or some faith) ceremony of two people committing to eachother. Marriage, is a religious service. Marriage, does not belong in the court. I believe in civil unions for all couples no matter the sex. I do not believe in marriage in the church. If you can find a pastor that will marry same sex, great, go for it. But in my church, it is not allowed and I support that. its the belief system and they can reject them. But, in the court, it should ONLY be civil union no matter the sexes. Marriage is church. Civil union is court.

Equal opportunity (none discrimination) - Um, never heard of the Anti-Discrimination Act of 1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Discrimination_Act_1977)?

Gay Adoption - Until I see evidence that it is harmful to the children, I will support it. I see no reason why people that cannot conceive a child together should not adopt, and as I said, unless someone can prove to me it is an unsafe enviroment, I will continue to support it.

[INFERNO]

The issues of marriage occurs in courts for issues such as a couple filing for divorce with one or more children, or arguments about who gets what item. The church should have no say over which parent gets what. If issues regarding married couples or divorcing couples are to be settled in a court, then why not have marriage to be in the legal system?

Why do you oppose gay marriage? I assume you don't take all statements literally from the bible, such as to kill non-believers, etc... . I'm curious though, you support gay adoption but not gay marriage? In the bible it mentions no man or woman should sleep with another man or woman, thus indicating homosexual acts. However, marriage does not equate to having sex, unless there's another biblical passage that I'm not aware of strictly indicating no gay marriage.

[chris__robin]

God doesn't exist... seriously. And why would you even care if he loved you or not. Just convert religions or something. Then you won't have to worry about some magical fat guy ruining everyone's life.

haha i wouldn't have put it so ... like that, but i have to agree with what was said here. I honestly can't understand how people can have faith in something they have never seen before or something which doesnt interact in any physical way... maybe im too logically and scientifically minded for it all, or because its one big hypocritical thing. i guess if you believe in life after death youd be scared and want to make sure you set yourself up for something good ... but yeah i dunno, no not for me id rather be kicking it with the devil old school if he exists.

i just need to say:
god didn't write the bible, the holy spirit didn't write the bible... i didn't know this holy spirit had fingers to hold his feathery quill to write the thing. people wrote this book a long time ago and it has gone through many many many translations over time.

and i do support gay marriage and equal rights for all. homosexuality isnt a choice we make, and i dont think that the world "isn't ready" for gay marriage to happen because its already happening. slowly but surely. i think right now acceptance of gay people is increasing, and eventually our generation is going to be in politics. not those old idiots currently there. and we are all much more supportive than the previous generations, so i think its inevitable that one day the rights of people will be much more evened out.

[sebbie]

I hope no offence is caused by my post.

Since this debate is from a Christian view:

Homosexuality in most of the mainstream denominations (Catholic, Protestant, etc...) Is said to be wrong, it is considered a sin. It is also taught that God does love everyone, but that does not mean He does not dislike things that we do.

As with gay rights: In a state where religion is not supposed to influence its laws, decisions, politics etc.. Homosexual people should be treated as equal, so they should not be descriminated in the eyes of the law, by employers. They should be able to file for joint tax returns etc.

When one looks at marriage you need to look at whether it is a religious marriage or a state marriage. In most religions marriage is seen as the joining of 2 people in holy matrimony in the eyes of God. Therefore if the religion perceives homosexuality to be wrong, it will not be allowed.

[Jimi21]

They dont Choose to be gay or bi , they r born like that . its natural for them , not a choice and thats perfect

actually im not sure that were born that way, up in till like the 7th grrade i like girls, after that i like boys and still do...

[INFERNO]

actually im not sure that were born that way, up in till like the 7th grrade i like girls, after that i like boys and still do...

It's nature and nurture together, although the two may not necessarily be equal. There is evidence for both sides.

[Blue63]

I'm still curious as to why you are lenient only up to a certain point. You defend homosexuals from religious damnation (i.e. being told they're off to hell) and show you support homosexuals getting respect, including being against prejudice. By supporting them, you've already gone against the Christian idea that a man and man cannot or should not be in a relationship together, yet with them being equal people, it would make sense for them to be allowed marriage. But you are against that. I'm confused as to why you were lenient this much yet in your support of homosexuality, you go against homosexual marriage.


Sorry for the late response, I didn't see this get moved

Okay, let me try my reasoning again. I believe gay people are generally born gay, therefore created gay. I also believe God loves everyone, and created everyone in his likeness and image. So I don't think gay people are bad. Whether it's a sin or not, I myself am not sure what I believe, but we all sin.

If you read through scripture, there is no reference (I'm 99% sure on this) on any form of same sex marriage. But there is quite a bit of reference to heterosexual marriages. I know that the catholic church is built on two things, scripture and tradition. There is no tradition of same sex marriage ANYWHERE in scripture or history of the church.

Second, religiously marriage has two purposes: Love (Which gay people can do), and to reproduce (which gay people can't do). I believe both should be present for marriage.

Hopefully this sums up my beliefs for you.

[INFERNO]

Okay, let me try my reasoning again. I believe gay people are generally born gay, therefore created gay. I also believe God loves everyone, and created everyone in his likeness and image.

If that is the case, then is God gay?


If you read through scripture, there is no reference (I'm 99% sure on this) on any form of same sex marriage. But there is quite a bit of reference to heterosexual marriages. I know that the catholic church is built on two things, scripture and tradition. There is no tradition of same sex marriage ANYWHERE in scripture or history.

The issue here is that the scriptures are ancient, they are based on the social norms of a time thousands of years ago that is different than in today's world. This may go a bit off-topic but why believe in something so old that has never been shown to be correct (nor incorrect)? I'm sure the answer will be faith but why believe in the social norms of an ancient time and apply them to modern times instead of going only with the social norms of modern times?

While gay marriage may not have been mentioned, that does not indicate that it is wrong nor that it never happened.


Second, religiously marriage has two purposes: Love (Which gay people can do), and to reproduce (which gay people can't do). I believe both should be present for marriage.

What if there was a lesbian couple, who are deeply in love and since they cannot impregnate each other, they go to a sperm bank and use the sperm there to get pregnant. Now, they can reproduce, so would that then be allowed as they've met both criteria you outlined? If yes, then is it simply based on gender more than orientation? If no, then what is the criteria that they have not passed? Bear in mind, this is based purely on what I quoted you above, not on it being in scripture nor tradition.

Hopefully this sums up my beliefs for you.[/QUOTE]

[Blue63]

If that is the case, then is God gay?

That's not a literal statement, for God to be gay wouldn't he need gender, God does not go with our standards of earth. God is not gay, straight, or bi, God is just God, as a church we don't have all the answers, that's where faith comes into play.


The issue here is that the scriptures are ancient, they are based on the social norms of a time thousands of years ago that is different than in today's world. This may go a bit off-topic but why believe in something so old that has never been shown to be correct (nor incorrect)? I'm sure the answer will be faith but why believe in the social norms of an ancient time and apply them to modern times instead of going only with the social norms of modern times?

Since when is old bad? There was homosexuality back in ancient times, in ancient Greece men would partake in sports naked. As a result of this not only was homosexuality common, it was popular. It was accepted, as long as it ended by marriage with a woman.

People had heard of homosexuality in the time of Jesus, it wasn't something that had never been heard of before, it was just more uncommon back then. But then again, they didn't have mass media to spread gay pride did they?

Faith, naturally, is a HUGE part of anything religion based.

While gay marriage may not have been mentioned, that does not indicate that it is wrong nor that it never happened.

You are right, but it has never been practiced in church tradition, I don't think now is time to break that. Or if there will ever be a time to break that.


What if there was a lesbian couple, who are deeply in love and since they cannot impregnate each other, they go to a sperm bank and use the sperm there to get pregnant. Now, they can reproduce, so would that then be allowed as they've met both criteria you outlined? If yes, then is it simply based on gender more than orientation? If no, then what is the criteria that they have not passed? Bear in mind, this is based purely on what I quoted you above, not on it being in scripture nor tradition.

Okay, I see what you are saying here. But they cannot impregnate each other, like how a married couple intends to do. (Yes, many married couples are unable to reproduce naturally, but there was an intent to at one point) Natural reproduction between two people in the marriage, or at least the possibility of it happening. (I'm sure there is something technical that you could say to dispute this, but you have to understand what I'm saying, whether there is some loophole in there or not.)

[INFERNO]

That's not a literal statement, for God to be gay wouldn't he need gender, God does not go with our standards of earth. God is not gay, straight, or bi, God is just God, as a church we don't have all the answers, that's where faith comes into play.

Then I'm confused as to how humans are made into our orientation if we are made in the image of god, but god has no orientation nor gender.


Since when is old bad? There was homosexuality back in ancient times, in ancient Greece men would partake in sports naked. As a result of this not only was homosexuality common, it was popular. It was accepted, as long as it ended by marriage with a woman.

You misunderstood, not all old is bad. If homosexual-like acts (i.e. naked men participating in a sport), then why not allow gay marriage? In the bible, there are passages forbiding homosexual acts yet naked men going about with each other as a spectacle was allowed.


People had heard of homosexuality in the time of Jesus, it wasn't something that had never been heard of before, it was just more uncommon back then. But then again, they didn't have mass media to spread gay pride did they?

They had some forms of media, such as talking, writing, etc... . So in theory, they could have spread gay pride.


Faith, naturally, is a HUGE part of anything religion based.

I'm very well aware of this.


You are right, but it has never been practiced in church tradition, I don't think now is time to break that. Or if there will ever be a time to break that.

With modern society evolving and gay marriage now being legal in certain areas, eventually it will be allowed almost nation-wide, so that may put pressure on the church tradition to change.


Okay, I see what you are saying here. But they cannot impregnate each other, like how a married couple intends to do. (Yes, many married couples are unable to reproduce naturally, but there was an intent to at one point) Natural reproduction between two people in the marriage, or at least the possibility of it happening. (I'm sure there is something technical that you could say to dispute this, but you have to understand what I'm saying, whether there is some loophole in there or not.)

Then I am curious on this, perhaps it is a loophole, what if two lesbians were to engage with each other and just as it would happen, both or one had both genitals and both were fully-functional. Genetically, consider that person to be female (and the other if they too had this). In this case, they have the love and the intention and ability to impregnate each other.

[punkjake]

I never knew i could make such a big post O_o:eek:

[Bougainvillea]

Some people don't support gay marriage because marriage is a sacred tradition between a man and a woman. Gay people have every right to be together. But marriage has been the same. A man and a woman. It's just the way it is :/
I personally don't have an opinion on it

[Sage]

A man and a woman. It's just the way it is :/

A few decades ago you could take something like racism in the States and say "that's just the way it is", too.

[Bougainvillea]

Yes. But that's racism. But hasn't it ALWAYS been that way with marriage. A man and a woman. Not letting gay people get marred isn't like not letting white boys play with black boys.

[sebbie]

Yes. But that's racism. But hasn't it ALWAYS been that way with marriage. A man and a woman. Not letting gay people get marred isn't like not letting white boys play with black boys.

In many religions marriage is the joining of two people in a holy ceremony in front of God, or to get Gods approval. Now if you consider the religions views homosexuality is often deemed a sin and is perceived to be wrong. To compare this to racism is a different ball game, due to racism is not perceived to be made by God, more our own intolerances.

[Reality]

no dem gayz shd not hav ryts nor be able 2 get marrid coz it rong nd agenst mah relijunz!
god dun like gay ppl so gtfo lololo

Buttttt. Seriously. There's nothing wrong with gays or lesbians being able to get officially married, and I don't know why it's illegal in some parts of the world as well as some States in the U.S.

I understand the whole marriage ceremony in a Christian church thing, because Christianity doesn't approve of homosexuality, only male-and-female unions.

What is the actual reason why gays can't get married in some places? Like, I heard California used to let gays and lesbians get same-sex marriages, but then removed that right. Wtf?

[punkjake]

In many religions marriage is the joining of two people in a holy ceremony in front of God, or to get Gods approval. Now if you consider the religions views homosexuality is often deemed a sin and is perceived to be wrong. To compare this to racism is a different ball game, due to racism is not perceived to be made by God, more our own intolerances.

true:yes:

[Commander Thor]

What is the actual reason why gays can't get married in some places? Like, I heard California used to let gays and lesbians get same-sex marriages, but then removed that right. Wtf?

Voters in Callifornia voted to make same-sex marrige illegal.
It's not like the govenator just decided to make it illegal, the citizens decided to.

[Reality]

Voters in Callifornia voted to make same-sex marrige illegal.
It's not like the govenator just decided to make it illegal, the citizens decided to.
lol. Well I don't live there or anywhere in the US for that matter. I deserve a cookie for even knowing that. xD

Heh. But their problem, I guess. Not really fair on the gays and lesbians there that did want to get married, though.

[punkjake]

lol. Well I don't live there or anywhere in the US for that matter. I deserve a cookie for even knowing that. xD

Heh. But their problem, I guess. Not really fair on the gays and lesbians there that did want to get married, though.

*gives cookie* XD but yeah it is sad that gays/lesbians can't ger married her :(

[Camazotz]

In many religions marriage is the joining of two people in a holy ceremony in front of God, or to get Gods approval. Now if you consider the religions views homosexuality is often deemed a sin and is perceived to be wrong. To compare this to racism is a different ball game, due to racism is not perceived to be made by God, more our own intolerances.

God did not physically write the Bible, man wrote it. Both homosexuality and racism are both intolerant beliefs by man, not God. Besides, there is nothing morally wrong why gays shouldn't be allowed to marry.

[punkjake]

God did not physically write the Bible, man wrote it. Both homosexuality and racism are both intolerant beliefs by man, not God. Besides, there is nothing morally wrong why gays shouldn't be allowed to marry.

I know right?People think that he wrote it,he didn't he helped them but didn't completely write it

[Mind forte]

The big debate is just marriage. In my opinion, it's not going to stop there, and people will take the whole discrimination against homosexuals thing to far. But that's just what I think will happen. Plus, True Christians don't discriminate towards anyone. I am a true Christian. I recognize that anyone can be saved, why would I discriminate against them? The bible doesn't teach discrimination, it teaches salvation

[sebbie]

God did not physically write the Bible, man wrote it. Both homosexuality and racism are both intolerant beliefs by man, not God. Besides, there is nothing morally wrong why gays shouldn't be allowed to marry.

Ok you are correct that God did not physically write the bible but that does not mean that God did not dictate what should be put.

Psalms 68:11 says, "God gave the word, great was the company of those who published it."

Peter claimed, "We have not followed cunningly devised fables ... We have a more sure word of prophecy ... For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." (II Peter 1:16-2)

Apostle Paul said, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God (God-breathed)

The above are just 3 quotes out of many more from different parts of the Bible showing that God was responsible for what was written if you believe in that.

Now the perception of if it is morally wrong is a whole different ball game, and you should consider it away from religion. Morality is essentially judging whether it is right or wrong.

So is is right or wrong to be gay ?

Some people argue that its wrong as it is not perceived to be natural. Our sex organs are designed for reproduction not for pleasure.

Some people think that it is wrong because it is different to the majority.

Some people think it is right as it is our own personal choice.

Some people think it is right because its not harming anyone.

The arguments can go on and on. But the title of the topic is:

Gay rights and God +bible+gays=?

From this I would assume that we are debating whether it is right or wrong to be Gay from Christian viewpoint.

[Sage]

True Christians don't discriminate towards anyone. I am a true Christian.

There is no such thing as a true Christian, just as there are no true Muslims or true Pagans or true Atheists or true Pastafarians.

[sebbie]

There is no such thing as a true Christian, just as there are no true Muslims or true Pagans or true Atheists or true Pastafarians.

I would say that there are true Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. By being true to their own religion, they follow their rules dictated in their religious teachings.

[Mind forte]

Ok you are correct that God did not physically write the bible but that does not mean that God did not dictate what should be

From this I would assume that we are debating whether it is right or wrong to be Gay from Christian viewpoint.
If that's the case, I'll put in my two cents. The bible teaches that homosexual sex is a sin. If you truly think you cannot become heterosexual (As some people have) You do not have to go get changed, just don't have homosexual six, it's a sin after all, isn't it? In my opinion, masturbation is wrong. How many heterosexuals are addicted to it? A lot. They're sinning just as much as homosexuals are when having homosexual sex. So stop having sex and commit yourself to Jesus and fall in love with him. I know I have. Also, clearing up the masturbation thing, I believe masturbating while wanting to have sex with someone is a sin, because it is lust. Why I say that:
Matthew 5:28
But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Lusting after a person during masturbation is a sin, or at any time.

People claim that they watch porn and they don't care about having sex with the person they're watching, they just need something to help them get going. Well, I have something for that to.
Psalm 101:3
I will set nothing wicked before my eyes;
I hate the work of those who fall away;
It shall not cling to me.
Porn, is a wicked thing to set before your eyes before my opinion. Ripplemagne has a different stance on this. I take that verse literally.

For the last part
I hate the work of those who fall away;
It shall not cling to me.
For those who do not understand here's the Bible GOD'S WORD version:p
I hate what unfaithful people do. I want no part of it.
Keep away from sin basically, you hate sin. Nevertheless you should remember people can get saved.

All in all, bare masturbation (No porn, No lust) is fine in my opinion. There's room for debate, I welcome you to it. We can do it VIA msn, mine's is [email protected] And if Ripplemagne reads this, Get out of here :p

So I rooted off to how heterosexual's commit something that is hard to break to, a pleasure. Something of this world, which we don't need. Heterosexuals have sex for reproducing and pleasure, which is fine because it's not a sin. I hope you understood everything I said and I answered some questions that people didn't want to ask or I cleared up something better.

EDIT: Thanks Sebbie for clearing that up for Deschain :)

[Sage]

I would say that there are true Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. By being true to their own religion, they follow their rules dictated in their religious teachings.

There are countless seperate denominations, however. Staying true to your own denomination's teachings still makes you incorrect in another's. There is no realistic way that all denominations can be equally true, that's paradoxical.

Thanks Sebbie for clearing that up for Deschain :)

Don't speak for me. It is cleared up for me when I say it is cleared up for me- And it has not been cleared up.

[sebbie]

There are countless seperate denominations, however. Staying true to your own denomination's teachings still makes you incorrect in another's. There is no realistic way that all denominations can be equally true, that's paradoxical.


A Christian who follows their beliefs as dictated = True Christian
A Muslim who follows their beliefs as dictated = True Muslim
A Jew who follows their beliefes as dictated = True Jew

As with any other religion. Your point is relating to how each other views another faith, eg: A true Christian would see a true Muslim as being an untrue Christian if you get me.

[Sage]

A Christian who follows their beliefs as dictated = True Christian
A Muslim who follows their beliefs as dictated = True Muslim
A Jew who follows their beliefes as dictated = True Jew

As with any other religion. Your point is relating to how each other views another faith, eg: A true Christian would see a true Muslim as being an untrue Christian if you get me.

But your point is still moot seeing as, in the context Mind forte used, he said "True Christians don't discriminate towards anyone.", where as I can whole-heartedly agree that some denominations hold discrimination as part of their beliefs. By your definition, that still makes them true.

[sebbie]

But your point is still moot seeing as, in the context Mind forte used, he said "True Christians don't discriminate towards anyone.", where as I can whole-heartedly agree that some denominations hold discrimination as part of their beliefs. By your definition, that still makes them true.

Yes.

But as I said above they are true to their own faith, but how others perceive them to be untrue is when you start looking at different religions views on each other.

[Poetic Folly]

I don't agree with gay marriage, but I tolerate it.
I see what you are saying, but the story of Sodom and Gomorrah...

Question: "What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?"

Answer: What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah? It is abundantly clear that homosexuality was the primary evil.

BUT, that is just one translation, I'm sure other people think it is something else.

[Sage]

Yes.

But as I said above they are true to their own faith, but how others perceive them to be untrue is when you start looking at different religions views on each other.

Being aware of other people's views doesn't make your own true, it just means you're not an asshole. I don't see where you're going with this exactly. Mind forte said a true christian does not discriminate, and I said there is no such thing as a true christian. You say there is, but your definition has nothing to do with discrimination. According to you, everyone can equally be true- Even different denominations with completely different views on homosexuality.

I don't agree with gay marriage, but I tolerate it.

Why? How do you feel others would view me if I said, oh, say, "I don't agree with chinese people, but I tolerate them."?

[sebbie]

Being aware of other people's views doesn't make your own true, it just means you're not an asshole. I don't see where you're going with this exactly. Mind forte said a true christian does not discriminate, and I said there is no such thing as a true christian. You say there is, but your definition has nothing to do with discrimination. According to you, everyone can equally be true- Even different denominations with completely different views on homosexuality.



Descrimination does not have to come into it. Everyone can be true to their own views provided they follow what is required of them. If you are going to start looking at how a religion views another I suggest that another thread gets started in here as its taking this one off topic :)

[Mind forte]

Denominations exist, but are pretty much unnecessary. Christianity is meant to be the following of the Bible, God's word, and living your life according to it. That's all it is. People take away what they want or changed a few things and called it a name. I'm a Christian, no denomination. I honestly don't think I'm going to persuade you and I'm not doing a good job of it anyway.

[INFERNO]

I don't agree with gay marriage, but I tolerate it.

Why do you tolerate it but not agree with it? If you tolerate it then it cant be that horrible but it seems horrible enough for you to not agree with it. I'm curious as to what makes it not too horrible for you to tolerate?


As for the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, it was not only due to homosexuality as many people pin it up to be. There were numerous sins committed, it's open to debate which sin was the worst and which resulted in their destruction but the others may have involved bestiality, cannibalism, sex with angels, being ungodly and unkind to others, etc... .


If that's the case, I'll put in my two cents. The bible teaches that homosexual sex is a sin. If you truly think you cannot become heterosexual (As some people have) You do not have to go get changed, just don't have homosexual six, it's a sin after all, isn't it? In my opinion, masturbation is wrong.

I've lost the train of thought for your argument. You're debating homosexual sex being a sin then randomly hop over to masturbation? Are you implying that the sins from masturbation and homosexual sex are equal? Many people are along the lines that all sins are equal so this may seem as a given.

It's somewhat of an odd way to put it, "if you truly think you cannot become heterosexual", makes it sound as though you won't be "normal".

Anyways, let's see if I can follow your train of thought.

As you referenced Psalm 101:3, I'm curious, why is porn, to you a wicked thing? What exactly makes something "wicked"? You can give a biblical verse to the two questions but I'm not interested in what the bible says, I'm interested in what you have to say.

The part I find interesting is that if you only hate the things that the person does, then I have two questions:

1) When hating what the person does, do you also hate the person? Let's say you hate the idea of porn, so if someone you know watches porn, do you hate them?
2) If you don't hate the person, then why don't you hate them? It's cited in the bible over and over, particularly in the Old Testament where god claims to not only hate the actions but also the person doing those actions. So if god hates the person, then why don't you hate the person?

What I find to be further interesting is:

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)

So for those who claim to hate or dislike or whatever similar, are you not also committing a sin while arguing that something else is a sin, all sins are bad, etc...? It seems somewhat odd to me. As Galatians 5:19-21 shows, it's not oriented towards hate or rage, etc... to a person, it's just those acts in general.


So I rooted off to how heterosexual's commit something that is hard to break to, a pleasure. Something of this world, which we don't need. Heterosexuals have sex for reproducing and pleasure, which is fine because it's not a sin.

Refer back to Galatians 5:19-21, where orgies are referenced as a sin. Heterosexuals can have orgies, as can homosexuals, so would that not also make some heterosexual sex a sin? Masturbation and sex before one is married can be seen as impurity, which goes back to the trusty Galatians 5:19-21 as being a sin.

[punkjake]

Why do you tolerate it but not agree with it? If you tolerate it then it cant be that horrible but it seems horrible enough for you to not agree with it. I'm curious as to what makes it not too horrible for you to tolerate?


As for the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, it was not only due to homosexuality as many people pin it up to be. There were numerous sins committed, it's open to debate which sin was the worst and which resulted in their destruction but the others may have involved bestiality, cannibalism, sex with angels, being ungodly and unkind to others, etc... .



I've lost the train of thought for your argument. You're debating homosexual sex being a sin then randomly hop over to masturbation? Are you implying that the sins from masturbation and homosexual sex are equal? Many people are along the lines that all sins are equal so this may seem as a given.

It's somewhat of an odd way to put it, "if you truly think you cannot become heterosexual", makes it sound as though you won't be "normal".

Anyways, let's see if I can follow your train of thought.

As you referenced Psalm 101:3, I'm curious, why is porn, to you a wicked thing? What exactly makes something "wicked"? You can give a biblical verse to the two questions but I'm not interested in what the bible says, I'm interested in what you have to say.

The part I find interesting is that if you only hate the things that the person does, then I have two questions:

1) When hating what the person does, do you also hate the person? Let's say you hate the idea of porn, so if someone you know watches porn, do you hate them?
2) If you don't hate the person, then why don't you hate them? It's cited in the bible over and over, particularly in the Old Testament where god claims to not only hate the actions but also the person doing those actions. So if god hates the person, then why don't you hate the person?

What I find to be further interesting is:

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)

So for those who claim to hate or dislike or whatever similar, are you not also committing a sin while arguing that something else is a sin, all sins are bad, etc...? It seems somewhat odd to me. As Galatians 5:19-21 shows, it's not oriented towards hate or rage, etc... to a person, it's just those acts in general.



Refer back to Galatians 5:19-21, where orgies are referenced as a sin. Heterosexuals can have orgies, as can homosexuals, so would that not also make some heterosexual sex a sin? Masturbation and sex before one is married can be seen as impurity, which goes back to the trusty Galatians 5:19-21 as being a sin.

lol you should be a english/poctical professer at havert,sorry off topic,even though marriage is ussaly with man and women ,i think if they love they should be able to marry too