Visitor Messaging

[Lights]

Most versions of Vbulletin have this automatically so I'm suprised it's not here.. visitor messaging is a function that allows messages from any user on any profile.. who wants this?

[Requin]

We did have it. But it was deleted I think for a reason I can't remember. Ant or Steph will explain all.

[Aηdy]

You abuse it you lose it.

Some people abused it, we all lost it.

[Sugaree]

As Andy said, you abuse it you lose it. Some people abused it and we all lost it. I find that as being unfair to the members who did NOTHING to lose it. I honestly think we should bring it back. We have enough moderators to monitor what is posted and what isn't, so it wouldn't hurt to bring them back.

[Aηdy]

I would like to see it back..

[ShatteredWings]

guys this has been a debate before. we all know the mods won't bring it back

basically people were making it be like a dating site, which is not what vt is fore

[papercut_perfect]

I think i would be cool to have it. I was a little disappointed when I saw I couldn't comment on other members profile.

[Lights]

Infract & ban if people misuse it.

[Requin]

Yeah I'm all for the idea really. I doubt the seniors will want to discuss all that again.
I dunno though....
:)

[Underground_Network]

There was widespread misuse. It was impossible to control. That's almost guaranteed to occur again.

I assume we could try it again, but idk.

[Oblivion]

What Adam said is a big role I think.

It's really hard to control or moderate visitor messages at all, because profiles aren't visited as often as posts or blogs or social groups. Really the only people making sure that the comments aren't inappropriate are the user hosting the comments, and the commenter, which makes it hard to find out when somethings going wrong, and when users are potentially endangering themselves or other users.

[Lights]

Maybe special moderators for profiles would be good?

[Cloud]

with 10,000+ members that is gonna be hard

[Lights]

I see.. hmm. Well there's alot to be taken into consideration.
I think it's simply a case that the staff must be strict on users with profile comments.

[Cloud]

i think that they should be granted after a certain post count is reached and should be able to be turned on or off by the user

[Lights]

Oh yeahhh, good idea *thumbs up*.

[Sugaree]

Something like that could work. But it should be at a reasonable post count, say 1,500.

[Underground_Network]

How about more like 500 posts? I think by the time someone has 500 posts, if they haven't been banned, we can trust they won't be leaving inappropriate visitor messages.

[Sugaree]

I was just about to edit my previous post to lower the count. I'm sure that by 500 posts, a user will have learned the rules and not post anything inappropriate as you said Adam. It would be nice to see these brought back.

[Cloud]

i was thinking 500 posts earns it
cos that leaves just over 150 profiles to be checked and that isnt such a demanding task
they should be able to be disabled by the user too

[AllThatIsLeft]

i would love them. sometimes pms can be quite annoying. and profile msgs can be ignored :D

[Antares]

This might help you:
http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24245

And can I have my muffin now?!



EDIT: I was here when we had it. I honestly don't want it back. It has been a really long time since we had it and I think it has turned out for the better. I think they are pointless. Especially when there are PMs, threads, and groups to communicate with people with. We survived this long, why bring it back when the same problems are bound to arise again? (even if we do have moderators to "mod" them)

[Kiros]

It's a big thing to moderate, but I'm sure if there was a specialized team that would monitor comments (profile, album, social group, and blog comments), then it could be re-enabled without much to fear.

[The Batman]

When we had it there was a certain amount of posts that you have to have before you could post without them being moderated. I liked them, but to many people abused them by posting all kinds of freaky stuff it was dozens of members doing it but if there was a special team then it would be better handled.

[Oblivion]

Plus, I honestly don't see what the hype is about.
All I see are public PMs?
I don't really get what's super special about them.
Any help?

[The Batman]

It's suppose to be like a leave a friendly message so everyone can see thing but people can't comprehend that it's public.

[Oblivion]

But you can leave a friendly message via private message as well...
:P
I guess I don't understand the point. It seems like they would make convos harder.

[The Batman]

Here's an example of the right use of a visitor message.

This is the most awesome guy ever Nick he rocks people wooo
That's pretty much it you just post a shoutout or whatever.

[Oblivion]

Ohhh I get it, like saying good stuff about people, and posting your opinion.
Makes sense ;)

I like the "X amount of posts before you can do it" thing by the way.

[Aηdy]

I use profile messaging a lot on other forums. Sometimes something doesn't really need to be PM'd, not worth making a thread and social groups suck ass anyway. I've never seen it an issuse on any other forum, whether it be a teen forum or not.

[Gumleaf]

hmmm, i see where you are all coming from but as some people have mentioned, the reason it was disabled was because of abuse that resulted in serious breaks in the site rules. the decision for it to be disbled is not to act as the "fun police" but to ensure the safety of all vt members. from a moderator perspective, these visitor messages are hard to moderate, especially as this site continues to grow.

[Requin]

Typical vt, so far from the poll results we can conclude that people would rather have a muffin than have visitor messaging. :)

Well done.
Couldn't there be a reported message system? Like we have with pms and posts and now blogs?
It would make things a little easier wouldn't it?

[Lights]

Well Muffins are pretty awsome so I'm not suprised ^_^

[Death]

Messaging should be allowed for anyone. Why sould everyone see what someone has to say? Naturally, some people have things to say to specific people. And no, I would not sacrifice a handy tool in a forum simply for the sake of a single, simple muffin that will not last long.

[The Batman]

It's not a private message it's a visitor message when you visit someone's profile you can leave a message that's it. This has nothing to do with Pms.

[Death]

Oh, right, sorry.

[NeoKitai]

It lead to flame wars in other areas, we're fine already.

[Underground_Network]

I'm still waiting on that muffin... :/

[Sugaree]

I still like the idea of allowing a member with x ammount of posts and x days of being a member have visitor messages. If we do this, then it can be easy enough to control. If someone has over 500 posts (or more) and has bee na member for more than, let's say, 3 or 4 months, then we should be able to trust that they have, by now, the brains not to start flame wars or leave crude messages.

We should also have a feature that can restrict visitor messages to a member's freinds, contacts, and staff members. If you aren't a member's freind or on their contact list, then you can't leave them a message. We can also give the user the option of disabling this feature if they so wish.

If we need them, we can hire more staff to moderate what is posted.

[The Batman]

I don't think we would need more staff just to moderate visitor messages.

[Oblivion]

Just so everyone remembers, VT isn't a social site, it's a teen help source. It's not made for us to chat and get to know each other.
Plus VT is a privilege in itself; to ask for more privileges when it will also make it harder to control VT, is kinda weird to me.

[Θάνατος]

Well I remember back when it was active and I was not very active here on VT. It was one of the features that I liked. Gov teen has and it seems to work well there and they have way more active member than VT.

One feature that would be nice to have if we could gt it back is the you would be able to edit any message that is left for you. There is no need for more moderating positions to be created. Hell the staff is pretty big now and some of the staff is not very active.

I do agree that it could be enabled after a person has reached a certain number of post so say 500 and maybe a certain level of reputation but not have any one know about the rep system being involved so you get away from bogus repping.

This is just a thought.

I am sure it will not come back but it was nice for some of us that didn't abuse it when we had it.

[Kiros]

Amazing... As of right now, there's a complete 50/50 balance of people that want it and people that want the muffin, yet no one has just said plain "no."

Ha :)

Anyway, I know what kind of hells the visitor messaging system brought when it was first introduced, but honestly, we weren't prepared. We know what to expect now, and if there is a team that just moderates comments (since there is not a team yet), then I don't think it would be a big problem. And Anthony, if you read this--and I know you will--be prepared, because I'm going to bug you about this until I see it become a reality ;)

[Θάνατος]

Yeah I noticed that too kinda funny isn't it besides.

I prefer bagels over muffins. LOL

[NeoKitai]

I want my muffin... or cookie!

[Maverick]

What would be the point of visitor messaging if you have to wait an hour or two for someone to approve it? All visitor messages would have to be put in a queue until a staff member views it and approves it. You couldn't even have a steady conversation using the visitor messaging system. Sure we could limit it to certain users based off criteria like post count and membership duration, but all members (new, old, high post count, low post count) have the potential to break rules and that is something staff has to consider. Just because someone has a 1000+ face doesn't mean I suddenly trust them.

There are so many methods of communication here. Posting in forums, diaries, groups, private messaging, and the chat room. Plus so many people on VT have each other on their messengers. So its not like there's lack of ability to communicate here.

Visitor messaging would simply inconvenience everyone. There would be no benefit to you guys having it because it wouldn't be an instant method of communication. What would be the point in leaving a VM and waiting when you can just PM the person? Sure, we could allow free posting of visitor messaging so no one would have to wait but that isn't an option.

[NeoKitai]

I want to ban Virtual Messaging everywhere now. I still hate it, and you can PM 100 members to flame 1 user daily on their profile.

[-Silence]

I don't see the point in it, if you want to leave a comment just PM him/her.

[Kiros]

I don't believe the primary point of it is to directly communicate. It's more of form of communication that lasts on a profile, so that everyone can see it. For instance, if I really admire your attitude and beliefs, I could leave you a message on your profile letting you know and letting everyone interested in you know (i.e. people that view your profile). It's something that is meant to build more specific reputations. When a person sees what kind of comments are on their profile, they know what people think of them, and everyone that views their profile also knows what people think of them. Even if it takes hours for a comment to get on someone's profile, I don't see the problem in that. It's not supposed to be used as an alternative to instant message.

The feature would not exist if it didn't contribute to the *community* quality of forums.

[Lord GaGa]

I think that members should be able to control who posts in their profile, in order to avoid spammers. Spammers shouldn't be given any chances, and eventually, people will get over spamming after a month or two of the system being introduced. I think visitor messaging should be reintroduced.

[Eagle1]

what if only friends could leave a comment???? probably the best way

[NeoKitai]

what if only friends could leave a comment???? probably the best way

There is an option for that to happen.

[MysticalBurrito]

I would like to see it back.. Agreed even tho I wasnt here :P

I didn't feel like going through all 6-7 pages of this topic but
I was going to a different forum area like please and people could post comments on eachothers profiles BUT they could choose whether or not to delete or keep the messages so say if it was a vile message you could report it and delete it yourself and let the mod/mods/admit/whomever is in charge deal with the report

[-Silence]

I don't believe the primary point of it is to directly communicate. It's more of form of communication that lasts on a profile, so that everyone can see it. For instance, if I really admire your attitude and beliefs, I could leave you a message on your profile letting you know and letting everyone interested in you know (i.e. people that view your profile). It's something that is meant to build more specific reputations. When a person sees what kind of comments are on their profile, they know what people think of them, and everyone that views their profile also knows what people think of them. Even if it takes hours for a comment to get on someone's profile, I don't see the problem in that. It's not supposed to be used as an alternative to instant message.

But people are smart enough to have their own judgments on a person without a bunch of flattering comments on a profile.

[Kiros]

ilence;527972']But people are smart enough to have their own judgments on a person without a bunch of flattering comments on a profile.

True, people are smart enough. But this community thrives on entertainment. Take TWPR for example. There are a great many posts in there for the sole purpose of entertainment. I mean, people on MySpace or Facebook are smart enough to know what their friends are like, but the commenting system adds to the socializing.

[Antares]

Well people that are for VMs, what will you use it for?
What are examples of things you will say?

Because I have always been confused about what the point of them are...

[Aηdy]

Well people that are for VMs, what will you use it for?
What are examples of things you will say?

Because I have always been confused about what the point of them are...

It doesn't matter what it's for. People can say whatever they want. vBulletin wouldn't have used their time developing the system if they didn't think it would add to a community.

Also, to whoever said 'VT isn't a social site', I'm sorry but are you freakin blind? 80% of this site is socialising, the rest being the specific help forums. And the socialising is help too, people make friends here. VT is a very social site.

[Oblivion]

It doesn't matter what it's for. People can say whatever they want. vBulletin wouldn't have used their time developing the system if they didn't think it would add to a community.

Also, to whoever said 'VT isn't a social site', I'm sorry but are you freakin blind? 80% of this site is socialising, the rest being the specific help forums. And the socialising is help too, people make friends here. VT is a very social site.

I said that.
VT is not meant to be a social site. It's not the new MySpace, or Facebook. It's meant to help people, not to chat with friends. Sure, VT is a nice way to meet some new friends, but it's not made for that, or to strengthen relationships. If you make a friend on VT, meet up with them on MSN or MySpace, and do the socializing there. Plus, if you did want to socialize, there are blogs, PMs, chat rooms, shout box, diaries, etc.

About the vB making it, they make hundreds of little things that you have the option of adding in. For all they know, their software is being used on a social site, so they make the best things that admins choose from to make the forums best for their specific needs. The reason their software costs so much is that their are thousands upon thousands of ways of perfecting your forum exactly how you want it. Just because vB makes a certain feature doesn't mean every forum should use it.

[Mzor203]

So I'm going to go out on a limb here and am going to be completely radical.

Visitor messages were taken away for a certain reason. They were abused. This is understandable... BUT, yes, BUT, taking visitor messages away isn't going to stop the abuse. It's just going to be taken to PMs. Putting visitor messages back on would mean that more of the bad stuff happening would be out in the open, and that would mean less people who shouldn't be on the site are booted off. It's strange reasoning, but when someone goes onto someone's profile with intention of saying something like "hey dood u r smexy" is going to see the option to post visitor messages first, will probably do it there, instead of sending a PM which will most likely never be seen by someone who can take appropriate action.

Taking visitor messages away doesn't stop the abuse of the site. It just covers it up and allows it to breed in secret.

[Antares]

taking visitor messages away isn't going to stop the abuse.

It does stop it...from being public.

I mean if you are smart, and you want to do some activities that go against our site rules, then you should use your friggin brain and do it in private. Hence the point of PMs. PMs aren't private though from the seniors though. So when people come to this site, they won't be put off by the "Hey, wanna chats" all over peoples profiles.
I don't think that the administration will change their views...even if everyone posts their complaints. I think the admins have already voiced their concerns and I doubt they will budge.

[optimashprime]

i dont think we should have visitor messages

if they want to ask something or get info or something they are better off to join because then they can get a better answer

[Aηdy]

i dont think we should have visitor messages

if they want to ask something or get info or something they are better off to join because then they can get a better answer


Join what? And get a better answer how?

[optimashprime]

join vt and ask us so more people can answer and people with more experience

sorry i was a bit un clear

[Commander Thor]

Not what we're talking about bro. ;)
We're talking about Profile Visitor messaging. (Like I can visit your profile and leave a comment)
NOT allowing visitors to post on the forums, no sir.