Pro gay marriage vs. No gay marriage

[kolte]

TOPIC:"Pro gay marriage vs. No gay marriage"

I know we have had this topic in the past, but I think its been down for some time and that plenty of new members are here to debate it, and plenty of old members have new ideas and opinions
I think that to consenting adults, regardless of sex, race, etc. should be able to have a marital relationship together. Many argue that you don’t have to get married if you love each other, it doesn’t really matter so why fight it? I say, its there right. Straight people and homosexual people should have the same rights just as blacks and whites should have the same rights; men and women.
America is a country founded on freedom. Let’s uphold our original ideas of freedom, and abide by our own constitution.

And let the debates begin!

V ~kolte

[redcar]

i think that the rite of marraige should be afforded to all people no matter wat sexuality they are.

but it will be a cold day in hell before ireland grants that right.

[Underage_Thinker]

Ya i never understud what people had against gay marrage. I mean it dosn't hurt anybod. I mean comeonn this is the same thing people were doing to black people. Not preventing them from marring but descriminating against them with no just cause.

[Dfsg]

I can see the good in allowing civil unions with equal protection under the 14th Amendment. I'll leave it at that.

[redcar]

i find it funn that 3 people voted that they didnt support gay marraige but yet they say nothing! sorry i just find it interesting!!:D

[kolte]

yes well, that just shows there ignorance, they don't support it, but they don't know why. rather sad.

[Underage_Thinker]

That is usaly how it is with people against gay marrage. They just are against it without a clue y

[kolte]

some think its imoral, I say it doesnt matter if you think its imoral or not, who said you got to decide what other people are allowd to do, what makes your morals so important. its not really up to them is it. it shouldnt even have to be a law, it should be common law.

[Underage_Thinker]

Ya it is there lives and they should be able to live it how they pleas.

[Dfsg]

Well, I was one who voted no, and I DID post. :P

My opinion on the matter is equal protection for gay couples in a civil union. No marraige for them, though, as I hold it as more of a religious institution. What I fear most is what happened in Canada- Ministers were prosecuted for hate crimes or something like that because they refused to perform gay marriage ceremonies. I think ministers should be protected from having to perform it.

[kolte]

its a right, god has nothing to do with it. the gay community has the right to get married, no matter what. just because you pass a law, its not gonna change the fact that they will never stop fighting for it.

[Underage_Thinker]

Pleas Dfsg will you tell me y gay marrege shouldn't be alowed without bringing in the buble.

[Dfsg]

What's wrong with a civil union with all the same tax rights and such?

[kolte]

its not about that. its a bout equal rights, not almost equal.

[Underage_Thinker]

Ya why should samesex couples settle for less. They desrve the same freedoms as any other person. Including the freedom to marry

[r0x0row3nd]

i said yes it really isnt ur life to dicide for anyways so if they are gay thats just them wat can u possibly do... and theres nothing wrong with being gay anyways its not like were gonna become extinct because they arent reproducing thats just stupid and wat does god have against it? depending on wat religion u are i used to be catholic and they dont allow gay people in church wtf is up with that? its bull shit it is sopposed to be equal rights we are sopossed to have freedom yet we dont we have some but we dont have that much we have partial freedom is wat i think

[Dfsg]

But a civil union is exactly the same as a marriage. Just one is done by legal authorities, and one by religious authorities.

[kolte]

equal rights not almost equal rights.

[Dfsg]

what's not equal about a civil union v a marriage?

[Underage_Thinker]

Ok this is how it is not equal.
Heterosexual couples allowd to get married but homosexual couples are not. That is not equal.

[BillyWitchDoctor.com]

i voted yes to supporting it because i dont see it as two men or two women together, i see it as love. i dont mean to offend you dsfg(possibly wrong spelling) but i dont see how someone can say that two people loving eachother and wanting to be spiritually connected through marrige should not be allowed to some while it is to others. we are all different as individuals as we are all the same as human beings it just differs on how we like to look at things.

[serial-thrilla]

Ya i never understud what people had against gay marrage. I mean it dosn't hurt anybod. I mean comeonn this is the same thing people were doing to black people. Not preventing them from marring but descriminating against them with no just cause. i think its very different. remember the majority of the western world is christian, and christians believe that marriage should only be carried out between a man and a woman.

[kolte]

and christians minds are tainted with a book written thousands of years ago in a different culture, with a differnt moral code, and different life style, that used today, disrupts change, and growth. soooo, there ideas thow somtimes correct by moral standards, are not fair, and are not up to date, or economical.

[redcar]

not all of our minds are "tainted" Kolte. i beleive God made us all in His own image and made us all without flaw. so homosexuality is part of His plan. but i dont understand why the Church cant see this.

[kolte]

you see, weather or not you are on one side of the argument or not, your thoughts are still tainted by "god" I think we should all face the facts, there is no god.

ask yourself this.

do I believe there is a god?
do I just really wish there was but deep know I know theres not a god?

[Underage_Thinker]

I belive in a higher power/god. as for christeanety (i know i spelled that wrong) i am undesided. BUt i do belive that everybody should have equal rights Piereod.

[redcar]

you see, weather or not you are on one side of the argument or not, your thoughts are still tainted by "god" I think we should all face the facts, there is no god.

ask yourself this.

do I believe there is a god?
do I just really wish there was but deep know I know theres not a god?

i really dont like that word tainted, its like its something bad. and i am the first one i bleieve there is a God.

[kolte]

you see, weather or not you are on one side of the argument or not, your thoughts are still tainted by "god" I think we should all face the facts, there is no god.

ask yourself this.

do I believe there is a god?
do I just really wish there was but deep know I know theres not a god?

i really dont like that word tainted, its like its something bad. and i am the first one i bleieve there is a God.

thats because i think god is bad, organized religion is bad. the mormons came over yesterday, and my family told them to there faces, that we don't believe in jesus, that we don't believe in organized religion and that we don't want to be involved in there church. and its true. of course, they tried to save us for a bit, but we argued our points very well I might add, and they left quickly. I really have had enough of god, and jesus, and moses, and muhammad and all the other stupid, vile, retarted stories said by primitive monkyes. fuck god and fuck the church! thats right I said it and I mean it. I hate the idea of god. Its for weak and narrow minded people, who cant find answers themselves so they say "god" said it and that means they have to do it, all the time there is no god, all these wars have been for nothing, all the suffering was for nothing, all the pain and hunger and greed for nothing, religion is evil and it hurts people.

what's not equal about a civil union v a marriage?

sombody cant comprehend equality

[serial-thrilla]

and christians minds are tainted with a book written thousands of years ago in a different culture, with a differnt moral code, and different life style, that used today, disrupts change, and growth. soooo, there ideas thow somtimes correct by moral standards, are not fair, and are not up to date, or economical. well i guess thats too bad. they can belive what they want. and if enough people are christian they wont want gay marriage. majority rules.

[Dfsg]

I can't comprehend equality?

Why should a government make a spiritual thing a governmential issue rather than a religous issue? Where are the equal rights of the church? If a country takes away the right of a church to make it's own decisions, we're darned near Communism.

I fear what happened in Canada- Ministers, even some from my own demonination, were told they were breaking the law and committing hate crimes because they refused to marry gay couples. That's horrendous! Where's the Minister's rights? Or do liberals only support the rights of the non-mainstream?

A government has the power of a civil union, which gives a gay couple the same exact rights as a married couple, just done by a governmental authority. That's enough.

And please don't curse my God in such a horrible and offensive way. Take a look at the rules of the board. My God died for me and for you, and changed the hearts of untold billions of people throught the years. Are the words just out of some book? No. But that's another discussion for another day.

[kolte]

I can't comprehend equality?

Why should a government make a spiritual thing a governmential issue rather than a religous issue? Where are the equal rights of the church? If a country takes away the right of a church to make it's own decisions, we're darned near Communism.

I fear what happened in Canada- Ministers, even some from my own demonination, were told they were breaking the law and committing hate crimes because they refused to marry gay couples. That's horrendous! Where's the Minister's rights? Or do liberals only support the rights of the non-mainstream?

A government has the power of a civil union, which gives a gay couple the same exact rights as a married couple, just done by a governmental authority. That's enough.

And please don't curse my God in such a horrible and offensive way. Take a look at the rules of the board. My God died for me and for you, and changed the hearts of untold billions of people throught the years. Are the words just out of some book? No. But that's another discussion for another day.

I will not allow my thoughts to be censored because the majority of people are offended by something that needs to be said. This is a debate and in no way am I breaking the rules concerning the content of my post, this is not a fight/flame/or bash this is not an attack on you or harassment. I understand that my post wasn’t the most friendly, or respectful post written. But damn’it I have the right to state my opinions within common law. And since as far as I’m concerned cursing God is not unlawful I will do it once or twice to express my very strong views.
Remember that this is a debate, and just because I’m a mod doesn’t mean I hold any higher a position then anyone else in the form, I’m a teenager just like the rest of us, I’m a friend, and a very opinionated person. To strip me of my right to an argument, tell me I cannot debate, that’s like taking vt away from me, vt has been one of the only place I’ve been able to vent my frustrations, don’t you dare threaten me with your empty treats.
Civil Unions are good, I know what they are, you don’t have to explain it every post, but you just have to give it all out. Marriage and all, just let it be, stop the madness, civil rights, gay rights, women’s rights, all met this kind of hostility. And if you call me a liberal again I’m going to have to hurt you XD. I am not a liberal, I support the Democratic Party one some issues, I support he Republican Party NEVER. I am unclassified as to what my political ideas lean too. Lean more the Democrat then Republican if you put me on the test. But I’m not a liberal.

~kolte

[Dfsg]

So it offends you if I call you a liberal (which your opinions lead me to believe you are) but you are perfectly okay with bashing my religion.... Yeah it's a debate forum, but it's a respectful one. I may be old fashioned, but I never curse, and I respect other religions. You may not have religion, but it's a very important part of many billions of people's lives.

The spiritual idea of marriage is something that has always been in the power of the church. How can the government change that? Civil unions are in the power of the Government, they can change that.

[kolte]

So it offends you if I call you a liberal (which your opinions lead me to believe you are) but you are perfectly okay with bashing my religion.... Yeah it's a debate forum, but it's a respectful one. I may be old fashioned, but I never curse, and I respect other religions. You may not have religion, but it's a very important part of many billions of people's lives.

The spiritual idea of marriage is something that has always been in the power of the church. How can the government change that? Civil unions are in the power of the Government, they can change that.

I'm not offended by it, just don't really know why your calling me one. Yeah I'm perfectly ok with bashing your religion, but I wouldnt say I was bashing it, if you read all my poems in a laid back voice, you will see that I don't really fight, just ramble. just say all my post in my voice (monotone, moderatly fast, a few smircks, and a cuple laughfs at random intervles) you will be amazed at how non hostile and bashing I really am. Its just like, your getting a little bit to into the debate if I'm starting to offend you. trippin out man. anywho, law won't be able to change the church, at least we agree churches should not be forced to preform gay marraiges, but there are some churches that do happily preform gay marriages. My stepdad, is an ordained minister, as well as my grandmother, and though only my grandma has preformed weddings, I'm sure both would happily wed two interacial, or same sex couples. its not really a big deal, just let everyone be equal.

[BillyWitchDoctor.com]

i dont think that churches should be forced to wed a homosexual couple because part of some people religion is to follow the "old ways" where homosexuality wasnt really known of or respected. but i dont think its right at all for a state to have a law against same-sex marrige. i may come off sounding kinda stupid saying this, but when states do that, i see it as if they're saying "no, you cant claim a title of legal bonding to this person because you're too different from everyone else so we cant allow that." thats just how i see it.

[kolte]

In the days of civil rights interracial marriages were shunned by the church. It wasn’t Gods way for us to mix the church said. It wasn’t god’s way for a black man to marry a white woman. They were forced then to marry the couples, the church I mean. So you know what, why not now, it’s a day of acceptance, let’s learn to love. I think it was Jesus who said, “Love your neighbor as I have loved you� or something similar to that statement. “judge not lest ye be judged�, something like that. So why are you ‘Christians’ judging and hating. Do you not even listen to your own God’s messenger?

[serial-thrilla]

thats a ridiculas idea to force priests to marry gay couples. its totally against the christian religion.

[kolte]

interracial marraige was against there relgion too

[serial-thrilla]

i wasent aware that it was.

[kolte]

if you recall, in the civil rights movement it was the religious groups that didnt want integration and didnt want any of that, they said that it was against god's law.

[Dfsg]

And many can claim something to be God's law when it is not.

Interracial marriage wasn't a problem in the Bible. Everybody did it (in the New Testament at least). Greeks married Jews, and Egyptians married Romans.

[kolte]

but you don't deny that interacial marriage was looked down upon the church during the civil rights movments? Thats just how it is today, with gay marriage, its looked down upon by the church, but in 50 years, hopfully we will have forgotten our differences.

[Dfsg]

The church hasn't always preached things that are 100% based on the Bible. The Bible is my main guide, and I don't see it shunning interracial marriage. It does, however, shun Gay relationship and marriage.

Church doctorine based off of this is clear, and if a Church wants to ban gay marriage, why not?

A government still can give the right to a civil union. It's a simple matter! Churches=Marriage, Government=Civil Union. Civil Union rights=Marriage rights (or should in my opinion).

[kolte]

i agree with you!
but I think we should take a step further, and go for equal rights, afterall, we should all be equal.

[Dfsg]

We are in 90% agreement. I want equal rights, but just keep mariage a religious thing. Could you immagine the government passing laws about communion? It just doesn't make sense.

[kolte]

I can understand that, I can, but I don't know, it just seems like its emposing restrints on freedom no matter which way it goes. its imposing the churches right to religion and the homoseuxals right to marriage. how about this, a law should coinside with the right of gay marriage, that states the church has the right to refuse. Becauase some churches I'm sure would do it, most would not. I've come to a consensus on this one, It is not right to force churches to marry them, and its not right for gays to not allowed to be married. So a church should not be fored to marry a gay cuple, but the gay couple should have the right to get married.....something like that.

[CoffeeBeak]

Dfsg, your communion argument is flawed. It would be similar if the Church was denying all Asians the right to communion or something. Or all short people.

[2inchesandstillpullin]

i dont mind if they get married...














But if they come within 50 feet of me i'll shoot 'em

[redcar]

But if they come within 50 feet of me i'll shoot 'em

really? i see that as gay bashing. something prhibited on this site, esspecialy since you wrote it small. i see that as being spineless as well.

[2inchesandstillpullin]

i was only joking. my homour isn't limited to friendly giggles though.

i seriously have no problem with gay people - it's not personal at all.

[redcar]

joking? i am not laughing. and the fact you wrote it small says to me that you meant it.

[2inchesandstillpullin]

joking? i am not laughing. and the fact you wrote it small says to me that you meant it.

other forums have other atomspheres.

i'm new to this one, and i apologise - it won't happen again...

again, i didn't mean it.

[redcar]

appology accepted.

[kolte]

yeah, that was very offensive to the marority of members on this site. See too it that it never happnes again in the debate form or any other form on this site, gay bashing is grounds for bannment.

[Dfsg]

Ah, the lexicon of a bulletin board, bannment :) My vocabulary has added a few things since joining up with GOV in 99.

As for Gay marriage, I just don't want to see the rights of the church lost. If it's a rights issue, both groups have rights. The church should have the right to keep it's spiritual thing thier own, and the government should have it's right to bring people into union under equal protection as a married couple. Sure, some churches are marrying gays, and though I find that odd theologically, I guess it was their choice to go that way, and in that case alone should a gay marriage truely happen.

My denomiation still doesn't allow it. We defrocked our president recently for presiding over his daughter's lesbian wedding... It was a big hubub in our general synod meeting.

[[email protected]//]

I agree with it becuase everyone no matter what or who should be able to marry whomever they want. It is a right that Americans should be able to have without discrimination

[kolte]

I agree with it becuase everyone no matter what or who should be able to marry whomever they want. It is a right that Americans should be able to have without discrimination

dsfg is right in this debate though, it is not right to impose on the church's religious pratice's. They are protected under the constitution of the United States. But its not right to impose on the Homosexual Communities either. There rights are protected under the american freedom of choice principle. They should be allowed Civil Unions and the right of marriage, only if the church agrees to follow threw the marriage ceremony. No church should be forced to marry gay cuples. But hopfully we can learn to get along and resolve our differences threw mature conversation instead of violence like in the civilrights movemnt of the 1960's

[--Josh--]

This is kind of hard for me to put into words..

I'm a Christian, and homosexuality of any kind clearly goes against it, and in my religion, marriage is supposed to be the joining of a man/woman. So if I where forced to vote, I'd choose no, because of morals. BUT, as far as if it where legalized, it wouldn't really bother me that much. Everyone has a choice - whether my beliefs coincide with it or not. So, I'd have to vote no. BUT, I'm not a homophobe, or trying to be rude in -ANY- way. To any homosexuals on this board - I respect you guys, your beliefs, and your choices - Please understand me in that.

[kolte]

This is kind of hard for me to put into words..

I'm a Christian, and homosexuality of any kind clearly goes against it, and in my religion, marriage is supposed to be the joining of a man/woman. So if I where forced to vote, I'd choose no, because of morals. BUT, as far as if it where legalized, it wouldn't really bother me that much. Everyone has a choice - whether my beliefs coincide with it or not. So, I'd have to vote no. BUT, I'm not a homophobe, or trying to be rude in -ANY- way. To any homosexuals on this board - I respect you guys, your beliefs, and your choices - Please understand me in that.

Of course Pro activists and Traditional activists can get along, as long as we respect each other. When are respect is lost, so shall the argument be lost.

[Diogo]

To the people who believe in GOD and jesus and that stupid things of religion. Gays or bi´s cannot marrie. Man and Women were designed to reproduce not to turn biologically handicapped animal.

[Delusion15]

Why are priests forced to marry people they don't agree with. My mom and dad got married at a justice of the peace....

[Obscene Eyedeas]

:locked: please do not bump old threads