How can they say its global warming

[Koman]

Yes i know we already had a GW thread.


But think about this.

Earth has been here for like 4 billion years, we have been monitoring temperatures (inconsistantly at that) for like 100 years. Now think, we have a very small line on an X,Y graph. How can we begin to predict the way the line will move when we only have such small data. It would be ignorant for scientists to extrapolate our 100 years of data when the earth has been here for 4 billion. How can we begin to even attempt to predict the temperature of the globe when we cant even accuratly predict the forcast for next week?

[ShatteredWings]

Finally, someone who UNDERSTANDS this consept.

Because people today are VERY impulsive, and honestly think that 100 years is such a huge blip in the several thousand years humans have been around and recording history, and the several BILLION years that the earth's been inhabitable.

Maybe a few degrees will change the climate, i'm not going to deny that. But we don't know if the natural state of the planet is supposed to be warmer than we are. Or if it's *supposed* to be changable

There are too many unknowns to make such a rash desision as 'GLOBAL WARMING ZOMGZ!"

[Sage]

They found viking farm settlements on Greenland, so it must've been warmer at some point.

[Koman]

They found viking farm settlements on Greenland, so it must've been warmer at some point.


Wasnt that only near the very bottom coasts? Like where there wasnt snow.

[Sage]

Wasnt that only near the very bottom coasts? Like where there wasnt snow.

The land, to my knowledge, isn't farmable now, even near the coast, and it was back then. That should say enough.

[Commander Thor]

Yes i know we already had a GW thread.


But think about this.

Earth has been here for like 4 billion years, we have been monitoring temperatures (inconsistantly at that) for like 100 years. Now think, we have a very small line on an X,Y graph. How can we begin to predict the way the line will move when we only have such small data. It would be ignorant for scientists to extrapolate our 100 years of data when the earth has been here for 4 billion. How can we begin to even attempt to predict the temperature of the globe when we cant even accuratly predict the forcast for next week?
The ice in Greenland and Antartica has been here for hundreds of thousands of years, and we can look at, and study that.

We know for a fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, meaning more of it means a warmer biosphere, and less of it means a cooler biosphere. That's a given fact that you CANNOT deny.

So then, if when CO2 is increased the temperature increases, we can look into ice cores and measure the amount of CO2 that was in the atmosphere when that ice formed. Now, lets take a look WAAAY back, lets say, oh I don't know, 400 THOUSAND years into the past:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9715/400thousandyearsco2tempcz5.png
See how the CO2 has NEVER gone above 300PPM in the past 400 thousand years, and in the past 200 or so years, human activity has driven this up to close to 400PPM. You cannot honestly say that the Earth, as a whole, won't get warmer than it has ever been in the past 400 thousand years.

How can we begin to even attempt to predict the temperature of the globe when we cant even accuratly predict the forcast for next week?
The Earth's weather processes are MUCH more complex than the effect of CO2 on the overall temperature.

Plus, I don't know where you live, but here, the weather predictions are pretty damn accurate, it all depends on your weatherguy.
And generally, local weather is predicted by one, or a small group of weathermen.
The Earth's forecast is done by a fairly large collection of climatologists.

[Koman]

400 thousand is still tiny compared to 4.5 billion

[ThatCanadianGuy]

400 thousand is still tiny compared to 4.5 billion

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom. Humans LIVE here on this planet NOW, and NOW its getting ridiculous, the amount of C02 we're dumping into the atmosphere won't hurt the EARTH in the long run, but its sure gonna make it a very harsh place for HUMANS to live when the coastlines around the globe flood and kill millions of people, and the earth goes into its next Ice-Age cycle (which we're due for naturally, even without human intervention).

[Stevo 69]

Earth has been here for like 4 billion years, we have been monitoring temperatures (inconsistantly at that) for like 100 years. Now think, we have a very small line on an X,Y graph. How can we begin to predict the way the line will move when we only have such small data. It would be ignorant for scientists to extrapolate our 100 years of data when the earth has been here for 4 billion. How can we begin to even attempt to predict the temperature of the globe when we cant even accuratly predict the forcast for next week?

I completely agree, I think Global warming is alot of bollocks, couldn't scientists realise that the Earth is just getting old?

[Sapphire]

The Earth has natural cycles of warming and cooling as shown by the graph that xbox360922 has so kindly put up. This natural occurrence of global warming isn't what is worrying people. People are worried because of the effects humans have had on this natural phenonemon.

[Commander Thor]

400 thousand is still tiny compared to 4.5 billion

Is that your only argument? That the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, and because it's old, we can have no effect on it?

[Koman]

Is that your only argument? That the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, and because it's old, we can have no effect on it?


Well thats not what i said so stop being a dipshit.

[Aηdy]

Well thats not what i said so stop being a dipshit.

That was totally uncalled for. Congratulations on your two red reputation blocks.

Global warming. It's something that no-one can perfectly prove either way. I'm still undecided, but it is quite obvious that we, as humans are making a difference with all our CO2 emissions. I agree that we need to majorly cut back on these emissions with renewable engergy and recycling etc.

[Koman]

That was totally uncalled for. Congratulations on your two red reputation blocks.



OH SHIT, how am i going to sleep at night?

[Oblivion]

True, we don't know for sure that it's not another Earth cycle, but we do know we are making *it* worse, because we have physical evidence that our CO2 emissions are creating the greenhouse effect (which I hope you've heard of), which definitely does heat the world quicker than just the average global cycle. Plus, we're digging a hole in the ozone layer, which is almost impossibly "Just a cycle". The ozone layer has needed those billions of years to build up.

Good visual on the green house effect
http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/state_energy_program/update/images/06-07_greenhouse_effect.jpg

[Sapphire]

True, we don't know for sure that it's not another Earth cycle, but we do know we are making *it* worse, because we have physical evidence that our CO2 emissions are creating the greenhouse effect (which I hope you've heard of), which definitely does heat the world quicker than just the average global cycle. Plus, we're digging a hole in the ozone layer, which is almost impossibly "Just a cycle". The ozone layer has needed those billions of years to build up.
There is evidence that the Earth's natural cycle is occurring and that we are catalysing it through the emissions of greenhouse gases. The graph further up the page shows that.

[Oblivion]

There is evidence that the Earth's natural cycle is occurring and that we are catalysing it through the emissions of greenhouse gases. The graph further up the page shows that.

That's what I was saying... or were you agreeing? :P
True, we don't know for sure that it's not another Earth cycle, but we do know we are making *it* worse, because we have physical evidence that our CO2 emissions are creating the greenhouse effect (which I hope you've heard of), which definitely does heat the world quicker than just the average global cycle.

[Sapphire]

That's what I was saying... or were you agreeing? :P
I was pointing out that we do know that it is part of the Earth's natural cycles in addition to the effect we are having on it.

[Number02]

True, we don't know for sure that it's not another Earth cycle, but we do know we are making *it* worse, because we have physical evidence that our CO2 emissions are creating the greenhouse effect (which I hope you've heard of)

WRONG. The increased CO2 emissions are causing an INCREASED or ENHANCED greenhouse effect, which is the main problem. The Greenhouse Effect in itself is essential to life on Earth, however the enhanced Greenhouse effect is detrimental.

[Oblivion]

WRONG. The increased CO2 emissions are causing an INCREASED or ENHANCED greenhouse effect, which is the main problem. The Greenhouse Effect in itself is essential to life on Earth, however the enhanced Greenhouse effect is detrimental.

That's correct. CO2 emissions are creating a man-made greenhouse effect (which is what I was referring to), adding to the natural greenhouse effect.
Thanks for correcting my minor scientific error.

[punkjake]

I totally agree its nature but pollution is just making it go faster,aw pollution you sneaky little bastard XD but really we got start recylceling

[Sapphire]

It will take more than just recycling.

[Commander Thor]

Good movie.
HUGE-ASS eye-opener for people who are on the border of global-warming.

http://www.youtube.com/homeproject

[scuba steve]

i believe that all this has hapened before (natuarely not us) but humans are getting scared and worried that it was all our fault throughout the industrial reveloution- present day and are now coming to terms that we are speeding up the process.

does this help?

[Commander Thor]

i believe that all this has hapened before (natuarely not us) but humans are getting scared and worried that it was all our fault throughout the industrial reveloution- present day and are now coming to terms that we are speeding up the process.

does this help?

This is true.
The period of warming is actually what allowed humans to thrive.
But technically, the Earth should be going back into a period of cooling.
CO2 levels should be going back down.
But the opposite is occuring.
Year by year, the average temperature is going up at a rate, never before seen by man.
Year by year, the CO2 levels are sky-rocketing.

[Sapphire]

This is true.
The period of warming is actually what allowed humans to thrive.
But technically, the Earth should be going back into a period of cooling.
CO2 levels should be going back down.
But the opposite is occuring.
Year by year, the average temperature is going up at a rate, never before seen by man.
Year by year, the CO2 levels are sky-rocketing.The temperatures are going up but only as the beginning of the cooling cycle.

Countries north and south of the equator like the UK and Australia don't receive as much cold weather as they should do considering their latitude because of warm ocean currents from the tropics.
The levels of CO2 are rising and trapping more of the suns rays in the atmosphere which results in the earth warming up.
This is leading to the ice caps melting. As the arctic ice cap melts the icy water will weaken and eventually prevent the warm Atlantic ocean current from reaching the UK and countries of similar latitudes.
The same would happen with the Antarctic ice caps, the warm Pacific ocean and Australia.
This would lead to a drop in temperatures and periods resembling the Ice Ages.

[Bougainvillea]

You guys should rent a movie called "An Inconvienent Truth" by the wonderful Al Gore :)

[Antares]

Because there was never this much CO2 in their air until now...and plus we are being unnatural by emmitting so much and chopping down the things that help with that every friggin day.

I mean, the ice caps are melting yaddy yaddy ya. But I don't like to think global warming. I just like to look at the big picture and say to myself "wow, we are fucking ourselves over" Trees that provide O2, and take away Co2 are being cut down...while we are putting more Co2 in the air.
It just seems sooo frickin stupid.
We are stupid...we need to go to mars already :P Then go to a different planet when we screw mars over

[Commander Thor]

Haha.
2050 BTW is NASA's planned date for sending manned missions to Mars.
By 2015 they want to start sending up different materials to aid in preparing Mars for our arrivial. (Basically rigs that will dig down into Mars's surface to burn the fossile fuels Mars has, to help re-establish an atmosphere).

[Sapphire]

Alternatively we could adapt and learn to live in harmony with nature...

[Bougainvillea]

The ice caps melting have a BIG part in this.

[Number02]

Alternatively we could adapt and learn to live in harmony with nature...

Meanwhile I'll take a ride on Charlie the unicorn and Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds (Y)

Let's face it, as long as corporations are in power, fossil fuel are STILL gonna be burnt, planets are STILL gonna be screwed over.

[Commander Thor]

Meanwhile I'll take a ride on Charlie the unicorn and Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds (Y)

Let's face it, as long as corporations are in power, fossil fuel are STILL gonna be burnt, planets are STILL gonna be screwed over.

Some of the most powerful corporations in the world are taking the 'green' initiative. Intel, IBM, Microsoft, Google, Ford, Honda, S. C. Johnson, Dell, HP, Bank of America, and General Electric are beautiful examples of that (But the list does go on and on).
But there is still a vast list of corporations, companies, businesses, and small-businesses that haven't taken that step towards a 'greener' footprint.

[scuba steve]

did you know without the atlantic current all of those western european couontries like UK and portugal would all be as cold as Finland, freaky!!!

those 2050 plans for mars are gona suck though i'll be 57 ffs i wana go to mars!!!

[Sapphire]

did you know without the atlantic current all of those western european couontries like UK and portugal would all be as cold as Finland, freaky!!!
Yes, I did.

[scuba steve]

Yes, I did.

ummm, ok you didn hav to go birst my bubble like that:(

[Sapphire]

ummm, ok you didn hav to go birst my bubble like that:(
Burst your bubble?
No one (not even you) had mentioned the warm Atlantic ocean current until I posted about it.

[scuba steve]

i didn't read any of the former posts cept the one about the mars thing as i was scrollin down, commented on it and decided to add that in

[Sapphire]

Meh, oh well.