Did Jesus Exist?

[Reality]

This is quite an interesting question, and I'm sure all Christians out there believe it, and most atheists don't.

But this isn't about whether you believe in the teachings of Christ or God or whatever, but rather, did he exist in the first place to begin with?

I actually believe Jesus did exist at one point 2000 years ago, but as an Agnostic and not a Christian, I don't believe he was the Son of God/Gods Incarnation, nor committed all those miracles that the Bible says he did, and I don't believe his mother Mary was a virgin, either.

I believe Jesus was more of an influential, smart person - much like Gandhi or Mother Teresa that got the people worked up, who in turn then exaggerated and fabricated some of his stories and goodness, in a sort of Robin Hood fashion.

[MARiFOX]

religon was created a very long time ago to explain why things happen,now it mostly used for profit and for someone that you can always turn to. i dont believe in religon but i do beleive its a good way to help reduce stress...and easly make money(not to mention using it a court by saying"god told me to"). well that my beleif anyway... :lol:

[Atonement]

Okay, so, Jesus existed. If he didn't exist,that would be a bloody amazing hoax. If he wasn't Son of God, whatever, your belief. But the fact that so many records, so many witnesses, so many writings, and it all happened so close together, we can't deny it. I mean, how can we know for a fact that Abraham Lincoln existed? Did you see him with your eyes? No, but its a well known fact. I mean, within 50 years, there were over 2,000 manuscripts relating to Jesus. It was over 500 years after when Homer's tales were to happen and start to be told before they were documented. Yet we recognize the human characters existed, but maybe not the events. But you can't deny the existance. It is too obvious that it happened. The miracles, sure, maybe not, but the person, existed.

[growingjudy]

he was a person but the story about him is a fairy tale. even in the new testament there are contridictions. there were only 7 people that claimed they saw him do something. they made it up. and some of the things he did was black majic.

[The Batman]

Jesus is a historical figure there's no doubt about that but i also do believe in the miracles and things he's done.

[ShatteredWings]

I don't think we can deny jesus existed.
I'm not going to bother looking up things, but the romans kept good documents of births and events.
Miracles can be denyed, some spefic evets can be
but the fact is that he was a man, and probably a HELL of a lot smarter than most people of the time

[Reality]

religon was created a very long time ago to explain why things happen,now it mostly used for profit and for someone that you can always turn to. i dont believe in religon but i do beleive its a good way to help reduce stress...and easly make money(not to mention using it a court by saying"god told me to"). well that my beleif anyway... :lol:
This isn't about religion. It's about Jesus. That was really irrelevant.

[Sapphire]

As has been said before, a historical person called Jesus has been identified as living in the Middle East. That is historical fact.

Whether he truly was the Son of God or not and whether he really made miracles happen are a matter of personal belief.

[Death]

Speaking as an athiest, I actually think that Jesus did exist! Only, as Semp said, he was just another of those ordinary people. He must have had a twin brother or something of a stunt double for when he died since there's no way he's coming back form the dead!

[Camazotz]

Honestly I don't know, and I don't know how everyone else knows he existed. One thing I find peculiar is that there are only testimonies of him existing, but not an actual reference from himself. As the Son of God, I would think he'd write down some of his own accounts, not just people who followed him around.

I'll research more, however I will not yet claim that he existed, nor will I claim that he does not exist. If he did ever exist, I'm almost positive that his "miracles" were not real miracles, but some kind of trick. Also note, the Bible is not historical evidence of Jesus. I am looking for documents written such as a birth certificate, death certificate, bones, etc.

[Sapphire]

It is possible that Jesus couldn't write. A lot of people could read but not many could write at the time he was alive. Hence why there isn't anything in his own hand.

I believe this would be of most interest to you as it is written by a self confessed atheist about the evidence that exists
http://www.examiner.com/x-513-Faith-and-Culture-Examiner~y2009m4d10-Evidence-for-resurrection-of-Jesus-found-to-be-compelling (http://www.examiner.com/x-513-Faith-and-Culture-Examiner%7Ey2009m4d10-Evidence-for-resurrection-of-Jesus-found-to-be-compelling)

This page gives an overview of some pieces of information known about the historical Jesus
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1999-02/919714996.Sh.r.html

This page talks about the discovery of a tomb containing the ossuaries (bone boxes) of a group of people: Jesus, Miriam or Mary, Joseph, Judah, Miriamne and Matthew or Matthias. It is not definitely the tomb of Jesus Christ and his family, but it is viewed by some to be quite suggestive
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070228135009.htm

[Camazotz]

It is possible that Jesus couldn't write. A lot of people could read but not many could write at the time he was alive. Hence why there isn't anything in his own hand.

I believe this would be of most interest to you as it is written by a self confessed atheist about the evidence that exists
http://www.examiner.com/x-513-Faith-and-Culture-Examiner~y2009m4d10-Evidence-for-resurrection-of-Jesus-found-to-be-compelling (http://www.examiner.com/x-513-Faith-and-Culture-Examiner%7Ey2009m4d10-Evidence-for-resurrection-of-Jesus-found-to-be-compelling)

This page gives an overview of some pieces of information known about the historical Jesus
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1999-02/919714996.Sh.r.html

This page talks about the discovery of a tomb containing the ossuaries (bone boxes) of a group of people: Jesus, Miriam or Mary, Joseph, Judah, Miriamne and Matthew or Matthias. It is not definitely the tomb of Jesus Christ and his family, but it is viewed by some to be quite suggestive
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070228135009.htm

I thank you for the information, and I'm glad to see an interest in looking for evidence. After reviewing your sources, I've decided to look for sources contradicting the theory of a historical Jesus. I stumbled across this. http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm I took skimmed through it, most of it making sense to me, but since I'm biased, I cannot claim it better than any other source.

Needless to say, I am at a cross (no pun intended). It seems as the more I search, I will only find more biased websites trying to prove or disprove the historical Jesus, since there is still much debate. There are many pieces still left a mystery, and until more evidence can be irrefutable (which I doubt will ever happen) it would be irrational of me to say either side of the argument is right. It's difficult to find the correct answer, so until then, I cannot truly believe one opinion over the other.

[James18]

This is a challenging topic to find a truly unbiased opinion on simply because everyone has religious views, and everyone has a vested interest in being correct. However, there is almost no debate by scholars who study that time period that Jesus actually existed. Although I'm no scholar, the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

[INFERNO]

I do believe that Jesus did exist as a person who was roaming around, perhaps he helped some people, etc... . I also do believe that the bible exists, however, I don't believe the more or less fairy tales in there. I think Jesus perhaps was rather intelligent, not sure whether or not he could or couldn't read or write, and people wrote about him.

[rainebg]

How can you deny that he existed? There's a lot of evidence and things saying that he did exist. And i suppose there's always uncertainty but that can be applied to any historical figure that old. I defiantly believed he existed. I'm pretty sure he was a great guy but other than that I'm not sure. I am an atheist by the way.

[Stevo 69]

Well we know Jesus most probably did exist by the number of stories in the Bible

He may well have been the son of God, as religion says God created Adam and Eve so he could have created Jesus. I've heard that some believe Jesus was not the "son" of God but a human form of God.

But as Jesus is talked about so long ago, there is no physical evidence, we can only go by the Bible and writings about Jesus.

As for miricales, yes they are written about but they could be coinsidence, maybe not, we cannot know for sure

[Sage]

Well we know Jesus most probably did exist by the number of stories in the Bible

The Bible is not evidence of the Bible. How many times must I post that in this forum?

[INFERNO]

Well we know Jesus most probably did exist by the number of stories in the Bible

You cannot use an argument whereby your only evidence of proving something from a certain book is true by using that certain book as evidence. That line of argument gets you laughed out of the room in any decent debate.


He may well have been the son of God, as religion says God created Adam and Eve so he could have created Jesus. I've heard that some believe Jesus was not the "son" of God but a human form of God.

Some parts of the bible claim that god and jesus are one in the same and equal, whereas others claim jesus is weaker. Also, in Numbers, it claims that god is not human, so jesus being a human form of god would be a rather nice contradiction.


But as Jesus is talked about so long ago, there is no physical evidence, we can only go by the Bible and writings about Jesus.

Unfortunately, you'll run into a large line of problems by using that line of thinking in a debate, as already mentioned. You also have no idea on whether or not the writings are in fact true and not made up, as your only counter to that is the bible claiming to be correct because it says it is, or some random writing or testimony claiming the bible is correct.


As for miricales, yes they are written about but they could be coinsidence, maybe not, we cannot know for sure

Dubbing something to be a "miracle" is simply saying "we don't know how this happened but let's attribute it to some diety because that gives us a quick answer". As science progresses, you'll find that these so-called miracles can be explained.

[TODAYisTHEday]

Nobody on thine earth shall ever know if Jesus had ever exist because everybody from that time is dead a gone and myself I am an atheist because nobody has ever proved of Jesus Christ or God. Thank you for your time.

You may believe what you think is right but always remember no one shall ever know and to think is like a sin they're is no proof.
In the future use the edit button instead of double posting
~Euphoria

[Sapphire]

Some parts of the bible claim that god and jesus are one in the same and equal, whereas others claim jesus is weaker. Also, in Numbers, it claims that god is not human, so jesus being a human form of god would be a rather nice contradiction.Christians believe that God has three parts: God the Son, God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. They also believe that all three have co-existed. So, God the Father did not create God the Son (Jesus) as He always had existed. God the Son inhabited a human body to spread God's values and teachings.

[MykeSoBe]

Well, I don't think it's that atheists / agnostics don't believe that he existed, but it is that they don't believe he was such a powerful being. I can't say further otherwise my reputation will be lowered more than it already is ...

[ThatCanadianGuy]

There is no actual evidence to suggest that Jesus really existed. All of the gospels about his life were written 70 to 100 years AFTER he was "supposedly" crucified. That's not to say that I don't mind if some jewish rabbi named Yeshua actually did go around Rome preaching to people, I don't see any reason to suggest he did anything as described in the bible, since there is no evidence to support it, or confirm his actions in any way. Pretty weak and self-contradictory story to base a religion on, I know, but somehow they managed to make a very convincing messiah account.... well, it convinced credulous desert people 2000 years ago. I would like to think that humanity has gotten a bit smarter since then, but since so many people are being duped into believing this story... I guess not.

[chazzrox2]

I think its pointless people questioning the very existence of Jesus...im completely agnostic, but yes there was probably a Jesus, i mean come on there is more evidence for his existence than Julius Ceasar's...so yeah Jesus probably did exist and even if he didn't his apparent beliefs are still crucial to people's lives...maybe he wasn't a prophet or messiah or the son of God...what if he was just a 1st century revolutionist, he's got a lot in common with modern revolutionaries...

[Prince_of_Peace]

Let's take this to what the world knows. The biggest religion in the world is Christianity. That is to say 33% of all the people on the world believes that Jesus is the Son of God. If we take it by democratic vote, it will be established the Jesus is Lord. God came to this world in the incarnation of Jesus that he split time into two. AD (after death) and BC (before Christ.) 16% of the population do not believe in the existance of God.

This statistics are estimated and is found in the internet. Numbers maybe off. But it surely does tell something....think about it.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Let's take this to what the world knows. The biggest religion in the world is Christianity. That is to say 33% of all the people on the world believes that Jesus is the Son of God. If we take it by democratic vote, it will be established the Jesus is Lord. God came to this world in the incarnation of Jesus that he split time into two. AD (after death) and BC (before Christ.) 16% of the population do not believe in the existance of God.

This statistics are estimated and is found in the internet. Numbers maybe off. But it surely does tell something....think about it.

That is a horrible argument; the argument from majority adds no credibility to your position. If we democratically vote and the majority of the people on earth believed the earth is FLAT, then I guess we have to believe them too. Your argument is divorced from reality. Your numbers are "off" and they don't tell you anything about the actual truth of the matter. All you get by saying a billion people believe in something without reason or evidence is prove that a billion people are gullible. This could apply to everything, lets vote and see... the majority of the world thinks that the moon is made of cheese! Therefore... it must be true!

[Sage]

Let's take this to what the world knows. The biggest religion in the world is Christianity. That is to say 33% of all the people on the world believes that Jesus is the Son of God. If we take it by democratic vote, it will be established the Jesus is Lord. God came to this world in the incarnation of Jesus that he split time into two. AD (after death) and BC (before Christ.) 16% of the population do not believe in the existance of God.

This statistics are estimated and is found in the internet. Numbers maybe off. But it surely does tell something....think about it.

There was also a time when much of the world believed the Earth was flat, far greater than 50%, I would think, but that does not make it true. It does not even add to the plausibility of it being true.

[Commander Thor]

There was also a time when much of the world believed the Earth was flat, far greater than 50%, I would think, but that does not make it true. It does not even add to the plausibility of it being true.

I believe the Catholic curch accepted that, and taught it as truth.

They also said the Earth was the center of the solar system/galaxy/universe.
But we also know that THAT's not true.
What else has the curch told us that isn't true, hmm....

[Sapphire]

I believe the Catholic curch accepted that, and taught it as truth.

They also said the Earth was the center of the solar system/galaxy/universe.
But we also know that THAT's not true.
What else has the curch told us that isn't true, hmm....
I fail to see your point.
The church wasn't at the center of those thoughts. They accepted them but so did a large number of mathematicians and scientists.

[Sage]

I fail to see your point.
The church wasn't at the center of those thoughts. They accepted them but so did a large number of mathematicians and scientists.

You're missing the point, I'm not blaming those thoughts on the church- I only brought up my point to prove that the majority is not always right in response to Prince_of_Peace's post.

[Sapphire]

You're missing the point, I'm not blaming those thoughts on the church- I only brought up my point to prove that the majority is not always right in response to Prince_of_Peace's post.
My last post was aimed at xbox360922 as he was talking specifically about the historical church and their teachings.

[ThUnDeR]

i remeber sombody telling me that jesus was like wiping his face with a rag and his dad was mad at him so he struck jesus with lightnig and his face was burnt into the rag and somebody found that
i might be wrong but thats what i heard

[INFERNO]

Let's take this to what the world knows. The biggest religion in the world is Christianity. That is to say 33% of all the people on the world believes that Jesus is the Son of God. If we take it by democratic vote, it will be established the Jesus is Lord. God came to this world in the incarnation of Jesus that he split time into two. AD (after death) and BC (before Christ.) 16% of the population do not believe in the existance of God.

This statistics are estimated and is found in the internet. Numbers maybe off. But it surely does tell something....think about it.

This is a horrible argument. More people believing in something does not mean that said something is true. All it means is that a whole bunch of people believe in something. The 33% implies nothing about that something being true, the same goes for the 16%.

I found some nice stats and unfortunately, they are all over the place for each country. In the US, 53% vote that they DON'T BELIEVE and a total of 27,937 voted. For Canada, 69% vote that they DON'T BELIEVE and a total of 4,578 voted. So, using your logic, it must mean god doesn't exist. But, we then turn to Mexico, where 62% vote they DO BELIEVE and a total of 3,142 voted. Down to Brazil, we see 52% voted that they DO BELIEVE and a total of 5,543 voted. Let's swing to Germany, where 59% voted that they DON'T BELIEVE and now let's head over to Turkey where 73% voted that they DO BELIEVE. So, using your logic, you'd be flip-flopping away. Horrible argument on your part and a horrible inference of statistics. The stats I gave were from http://www.yesnogod.com. Where were your stats from? I googled around a bit and didn't find your numbers, so where are they from? Of course, you saying "numbers may be off" makes it very difficult for one to verify your numbers because they could be off by 0.5% to 5% to 50% or more. Give a source for your stats, don't randomly throw them around with no source, then say that they may be off.

[The Batman]

i remeber sombody telling me that jesus was like wiping his face with a rag and his dad was mad at him so he struck jesus with lightnig and his face was burnt into the rag and somebody found that
i might be wrong but thats what i heard
Um no it was almost nothing like that. It is said that while carrying the cross a lady came up from the crowd and wiped the sweat off his face and his face was imprinted on the rag or something like that don't really care.

This is a horrible argument. More people believing in something does not mean that said something is true. All it means is that a whole bunch of people believe in something. The 33% implies nothing about that something being true, the same goes for the 16%.

I found some nice stats and unfortunately, they are all over the place for each country. In the US, 53% vote that they DON'T BELIEVE and a total of 27,937 voted. For Canada, 69% vote that they DON'T BELIEVE and a total of 4,578 voted. So, using your logic, it must mean god doesn't exist. But, we then turn to Mexico, where 62% vote they DO BELIEVE and a total of 3,142 voted. Down to Brazil, we see 52% voted that they DO BELIEVE and a total of 5,543 voted. Let's swing to Germany, where 59% voted that they DON'T BELIEVE and now let's head over to Turkey where 73% voted that they DO BELIEVE. So, using your logic, you'd be flip-flopping away. Horrible argument on your part and a horrible inference of statistics. The stats I gave were from http://www.yesnogod.com. Where were your stats from? I googled around a bit and didn't find your numbers, so where are they from? Of course, you saying "numbers may be off" makes it very difficult for one to verify your numbers because they could be off by 0.5% to 5% to 50% or more. Give a source for your stats, don't randomly throw them around with no source, then say that they may be off.
This is not a class teaching how to debate stay on topic this is not just to this post it's to your last one too.

[bill]

i dont care wat any body says but yes i think jesus existed stil does, god exists and the holy spirit. i am a christian. i am non denominatinol.

[TODAYisTHEday]

Of course he doesn't exist if he did exist he would be looking out for people like me and not fucking up the earth like he always does

[Sapphire]

Of course he doesn't exist if he did exist he would be looking out for people like me and not fucking up the earth like he always does
Just because things go wrong or you manage to mess things up doesn't mean that there wasn't a man 2,000 years ago who lived, breathed and taught many people about the importance of having compassion.

[INFERNO]

i dont care wat any body says but yes i think jesus existed stil does, god exists and the holy spirit. i am a christian. i am non denominatinol.

Why do you believe he exists? As you are very certain of this, do you believe that other gods/goddesses exist also?

Of course he doesn't exist if he did exist he would be looking out for people like me and not fucking up the earth like he always does

He still could have existed regardless of how the world currently is, as the current progress of the world today shouldn't have an impact on whether or not someone existed over 2,000 years ago.

[millymollymandy]

yes i believe that bjesus exists, if not why is the bible written in the way it is, and why are so many people believing in god, if it was just a fantasy. personally i believe that god existed as how can you explain all the mircales that has happened

[punkjake]

Humans question to much there will all ways be non believers and believers,
Atheist:They're just making that God up so they won't be affraid of rotting!
Theist:They just won't believe because they think they can prove anything!
I'm a very open minded catholic,i believe that gays won't burn in hell or atheist or jews ect..I do believe in A God i know there some from or being out there who created us. As for which one i don't know but i put my money on the trinaty.And yes i do beleve Jesus.PS there are many forms of Jesus in each religon Buda,that one dude the Arabs worship that starts with a M,and so on.PS (like i always do :D)Why i beleve in god,all cells come from 1 cell,that cell comes from another cell,so if you keep going on it ends about when the first organasim came from so what created it cells O_o oh wait water and elctrons but what created them,simple to put iot i think God created things with science he made the Marry preganat by umm kinda awkward but implanting a sperm in her,he made evaluation happen to create us.

[INFERNO]

yes i believe that bjesus exists, if not why is the bible written in the way it is, and why are so many people believing in god, if it was just a fantasy. personally i believe that god existed as how can you explain all the mircales that has happened

Jesus does not need to have existed in order for people to follow Christianity and such. For example, let's say I make a religion where King Tupio, Lord of Smelly Trees is the god the religion were to worship. He had a son, Prince Ulo, Prince of Smelly Trees. Who says I have to provide evidence in order to believe and have others believe? I should if I want to make it a strong one but if 10 people are in a room and 9 believe in something, does the 10th one also believe? There's the pressure of conforming to authority, etc... .

Many people believe in Christianity for a variety of reasons, however, none have any proof that Jesus existed. You can guess he existed based on testimonies, however, who are to say the testimonies are true? We assume that for whatever reason, they're true. In reality, the author of them could have been sarcastic, on some drug, had a mental disorder, etc... . But no, out of all those other possibilities, we randomly conclude they are true.

With Christianity, many people are born into religious families and are given that belief. Not all may accept it but for the ones that do and even the ones that don't, what proof do they have that Jesus did or did not exist? The bible, the book that is true because it says it's true? Testimonies, where we don't know if they're true or not but because the bible says they are and the bible says it's true and testimonies say they're true, then can they be false? Of course they can.

For the miracles, give an example of some that you believe have no possible way to be explained by anything else except for god. This includes all other gods/goddesses.


Atheist:They're just making that God up so they won't be affraid of rotting!
Theist:They just won't believe because they think they can prove anything!

Nice generalization. Not true for many though.

As for which one i don't know but i put my money on the trinaty.

Why on the Holy Trinity? Why not on my King Tupio or Prince Ulo, both of the Kingdom of Smelly Trees? Why not on another god/goddess?


Why i beleve in god,all cells come from 1 cell,that cell comes from another cell,so if you keep going on it ends about when the first organasim came from so what created it cells O_o oh wait water and elctrons but what created them,simple to put iot i think God created things with science

Bold part: Interesting, so you claim that evolution is indeed correct.

As for the cells, god created us in his own image. For this, I'd take it more of a literal interpretation and this implies god is either unicellular or multicellular. Seeing as how he created us, he must be multicellular. But, he created other organisms, including unicellular ones... . For evolution to be valid (you support it is and support god used it), we evolved from a unicellular one, therefore, god is then unicellular... . Wait... he made us in his image, so he must be multicellular but he used evolution so he was unicellular. Care to explain how that works? Unless... he evolved from unicellular to multicellular and that begs the question, what made him? How did he evolve to be a god?


he made the Marry preganat by umm kinda awkward but implanting a sperm in her,he made evaluation happen to create us.

Yes, making the Virgin Mary pregnant is a bit awkward.

Bold part: Is "evaluation" a misspelling of evolution or is it something else? If it is something else, then please define it.

[TODAYisTHEday]

Yes he may have existed long ago, but I do not think he had supernatural powers of any sort. Just a normal man.

[LoveBullets]

Yes, Jesus did, in fact, exist.
Some people argue that the fact that the gospels were written less than 200 years after Jesus's death that that's enough to disprove his existence. when it comes to ancient history, however, writings less than 200 years old are considered very reliable.
Plus, the epistles of paul were written less than 40 years after Jesus death which strong enough proof on its own.

There are many historic documents that confirm the existence of jesus including: Flavius's Antiquities, Extant Writings,Letters 10:96, the Gnostic writings.

Tacitus, the most important Roman historian of the first century wrote:
"Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberias at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome ... Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty: then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind"

There is really no question as to whether or not Jesus existed. Whether you believe him to be a prophet, the son of god, or a common man is up for you to decide.

[MoveAlong]

I don't know. So I can't judge.
But I don't like it when people force their opinions on me.

[vito22andolini]

Did jesus existed ? NO

[INFERNO]

Did jesus existed ? NO

What evidence do you have for this?