Nazi war crimes suspect deported to Germany.

[nachtspiegel]

(CNN) -- Nazi war crimes suspect John Demjanjuk was deported to Germany on Monday evening after he was removed from his Cleveland, Ohio-area home in the presence of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers earlier in the day.

An ambulance transported him to an airstrip at the Cleveland airport. The plane carrying Demjanjuk departed at 7:13 p.m.

Demjanjuk, 89, is wanted by German authorities for his alleged involvement during World War II in killings at Sobibor, a Nazi death camp in Poland.

His deportation closed a chapter in one of the longest-running pursuits of an alleged Holocaust perpetrator in history. It also sets the stage for what likely will prove to be an extraordinary German war crimes trial.

The Supreme Court last Thursday denied a stay of deportation for Demjanjuk. Justice John Paul Stevens without comment refused to intervene in the planned transfer from the United States.

Federal courts have all rejected his appeals, and the order from Stevens cleared the way for the Justice Department to move ahead with the deportation.

Demjanjuk's lawyers had asked the high court to consider their claims that he is too ill and frail to be sent overseas. They also raised human rights and other legal issues in their last-minute appeal.

A German court last Wednesday had also ruled against a request for a stay. Officials in Berlin have issued an arrest warrant charging Demjanjuk with being an accessory to the murder of about 29,000 civilians at Sobibor in 1943.

The native Ukrainian has long claimed he was a prisoner of war, not a death camp guard.

Immigration officers previously entered Demjanjuk's Cleveland-area home April 14, and carried him out in his wheelchair to a waiting van. He was held for a few hours and then returned to his residence after a federal appeals court ruled temporarily in his favor.

Demjanjuk had appealed unsuccessfully to the Supreme Court last year.

He was once accused by the United States and Israel of being a notoriously brutal S.S. guard at the Treblinka camp known as "Ivan the Terrible." After appeals, that allegation was eventually dropped by both countries, but later other allegations were made against him.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/11/us.demjanjuk/index.html

[Whisper]

Ya...i cant read that at all
okay a lil....29,000 civilians!! what a fuckhead!

he must have had an interesting day planner

[Sugaree]

he must have had an interesting day planner

8 AM: Death
9 AM: Death
10-10:30 AM: Death
11 AM - 1 PM: Death
Noon: Quick Lunch
1 PM: Death
1:30 PM: Quick Shower
2 - 3:30 PM: Death
4 - 4:15 PM: Break
5 - 6 PM: Dinner
6 - 8 PM: Death

[Whisper]

lol Eddie Izzard's awesome

seriously though i hope he dies

[Sapphire]

He's nearly 90 years old and so ill that he had to be taken by an ambulance to the airport!!
They're going to drag him through court proceedings and what-not just for a few months or maybe a year of prison service?!
For fucks sake, it's disgusting.

[nachtspiegel]

He's nearly 90 years old and so ill that he had to be taken by an ambulance to the airport!!
They're going to drag him through court proceedings and what-not just for a few months or maybe a year of prison service?!
For fucks sake, it's disgusting.

If he really was the one to help murder all of those people, he didn't even deserve an ambulance.
He deserved to have a noose wrapped around his throat with the other end tied to the ambulance and drug along the road until his head came loose.
There is speculation that it was really him, but in the event that it is, I feel absolutely no sympathy for him.

[WoW_GOD]

Why, who says he did it for fun? He could've just of been following orders to save himself, which a lot of people wouldn've done the same. And that was like 60 years ago, I doubt he is still some coldblooded killer if he WAS one.

[Sapphire]

This is not the first allegation against him. The first have been revoked so they obviously weren't substantiated. This allegation places him somewhere different to the first and so it looks more like people trying to make an allegation stick than actually having irrefutable proof.

It is disgusting to transport a 90 year old in such poor health (severe spinal, hip pain, leg pain, a bone marrow disorder, kidney disease, anemia, kidney stones, arthritis, gout and spinal deterioration) half way around the world to endure such a stressful trial. He'll be fucking dead soon. What the hell can come of it apart from a few months prison service?
And 90 years old is deemed too old to be tried anyway. http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090108-16623.html

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2009/04/14/image4945033l.jpg
^ This man is hardly a cold-bloodied killer anymore. He is hardly a further danger to society.

[nachtspiegel]

If he didn't do it, it is pretty disgusting. And I honestly feel like the hype for a prison sentence that the man probably won't live to see is pointless. However, if he did do it, the whole situation itself is sick.

[Sapphire]

If they want to get to the truth then they should go for it.
But to make him stand on trial and endure a prison sentence (regardless of what they find to be true) is fucking sickening.

[nachtspiegel]

I do believe in "innocent until proven guilty." If they can't prove him to be guilty, it is in fact sickening.

[Sugaree]

seriously though i hope he dies

Why? Don't you think he feels bad enough for what he did? Back then, maybe he didn't think he should be sorry for what he did, but maybe now, he might be. Besides, this was over 60+ years ago, so why even keep dragging it on and on?

[Whisper]

Why? Don't you think he feels bad enough for what he did? Back then, maybe he didn't think he should be sorry for what he did, but maybe now, he might be. Besides, this was over 60+ years ago, so why even keep dragging it on and on?


I dont care if he feels bad
you feel bad for breaking a lamp
you feel bad for cheating on a test
you don't"feel bad" for killing thousands

[Viral Death]

Here is his real schedule:
8:00 - 8:30 Wake up and take a shower
8:30 - 8:45 Get dressed and walk out the door
8:45 - 9:00 Steal and kill a chicken and plant it on a child
9:00 - 9:50 Kill some kids
9:50 - 10:00 Eat breakfest
10:00 - 10:25 Report to my officer
10:25 - 12:00 Kill people
12:00 - 1:00 Eat lunch and clean my guns and get some ammo
1:00 - 3:30 Make people dig graves and them shoot them and bury them
3:30 - 4:00 Kill and rape some women
4:00 - 5:00 Kill some kids
5:00 - 6:00 Eat dinner with wife
6:00 - 7:15 Kill some more
7:15 - 8:30 Kill some men
8:30 - 9:00 Clean gun and get some ammo
9:00 - 9:15 Get ready for bed

[Sugaree]

I dont care if he feels bad
you feel bad for breaking a lamp
you feel bad for cheating on a test
you don't"feel bad" for killing thousands

Still, he doesn't deserve to die either. Do you really think he had a choice in killing all of those people? Do you have any idea of the mental damage that can happen?

[Whisper]

Still, he doesn't deserve to die either. Do you really think he had a choice in killing all of those people? Do you have any idea of the mental damage that can happen?

Yes he does i'm not giving him a comfy cell 3 meals a day sat tv excersize room etc, i wouldn't pay for that shit fuck him

if he didn't want to do it he should have deserted or defected you don't climb the ranks like he did without a strong drive and desire to impress in your work
he chose the wrong side
he should have been killed in the field by an allied or resistance member yrs ago

I have no sympathy for nazi's or rebel Hutu's PERIOD

[Sapphire]

Yes he does i'm not giving him a comfy cell 3 meals a day sat tv excersize room etc, i wouldn't pay for that shit fuck him

if he didn't want to do it he should have deserted or defected you don't climb the ranks like he did without a strong drive and desire to impress in your work
he chose the wrong side
he should have been killed in the field by an allied or resistance member yrs agoNo, he doesn't. He is not really any different to the majority of the people in this world.

Are you not familiar with Milgram's groundbreaking research into obedience? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
A hell of a lot of people don't defy a person in authority if they perceive themselves to be alone in dissenting. This is true even if there isn't the threat of violence/death if orders aren't followed. In the case of Nazi officials, this threat was very real if they refused to follow orders.

Hoffling also demonstrates how normal people can do things they know to be wrong because they are obeying an authority figure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_K._Hofling

To talk about him with such venom and lack of compassion is heartless.

[Whisper]

i love how everyones defending a mass murder
hows the air that high? It has to be a lil thin I've never seen such a high moral pedestal

I mean fuck all the men women and children that died right
all the starvation, the torture, the experimentation, the humiliation, the degridation, the rape, the sexual assault that was rampant, the incinerators, mass graves, gas chambers

i mean
its not like he had anything to do with it really is it
its better on our conscience if we just leave it
don't wanna taint ourselves

fuckin pathetic

[Sapphire]

The pathetic thing is that you have not even acknowledged the evidence that contradicts what you were saying in your last post.

[Sugaree]

Kodie, I am NOT defending this man. I fully oppose for what he did. The problem I have, is that he's being sent back to Germany to be tried for being a part of the Holocaust. Sapphire is right, it is pathetic how you don't even acknowledge the evidence contradicting you. Yet, you accuse us of defending a serial killer.

[byee]

I think the facts here speak for themselves. First, the individual in question lied on the documents used to enter the US after WWII, which is punishable by having his citizenship revoked and him being sent back to *wherever*. The fact that he lived here comfortably for 60+ years doesn't change that he was here illegally, not does his ill health and current age.

Second, documents clearly place him as a member of the SS. That was an organization whose sole purpose was the destruction of enemies of the Nazi's (which is just about everyone except fellow Germans, and a lot of them, too), and especially the Jews. Furthermore, membership in the SS was voluntary, he elected to join, knowing what the tasks were, and was specially 'trained' at Trawniki Camp in Poland. These facts are irrefutable. To say he didn't know or was unaware or had no choice or was 'just following orders' is a distortion of the facts. He signed up to participate in mass murder, that's what the SS did.

Third, documents clearly put him at Sobibor, an extermination camp whose sole purpose was the efficient and methodical slaughter of Jews. The defandant was arrested and tried in Israel some time back as "Ivan the Terrible", a notoriously sadistic guard at Treblinka (another extermination center in Poland), however, the contradictory evidence presented about him being that person led to the dismissal of the charges. However, his voluntary membership in the SS was, again, not questionable.

Fourth, unlike the defandant, those 29,000 innocents he is accused of assisting in the murder of weren't spared because of their age or medical condition, therefore, he should face man's justice before facing God's.

Other than the misinformed, it's curious to me how *some* identify with the monster rather than the victim.

[Whisper]

Kodie, I am NOT defending this man. I fully oppose for what he did. The problem I have, is that he's being sent back to Germany to be tried for being a part of the Holocaust. Sapphire is right, it is pathetic how you don't even acknowledge the evidence contradicting you. Yet, you accuse us of defending a serial killer.

As sam has made abundant
there isnt

He should fry
-yawn-

[Sapphire]

And 90 years old is deemed too old to be tried anyway. http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090108-16623.html
Have either of you looked at this ^?
If they were deemed to be too old then this guy definitely is!

[Whisper]

its not that i didn't see it that we seem to be having a problem with
Your having difficulty grasping the fact that I don't care

Do you think he cared if he gassed a toddler or a 90yr old?
the evidence says otherwise

do unto others as they do unto you
I'm a very compassionate person to those who deserve it
He
does not

[Sapphire]

"Do unto others as they do unto you"
The dead cannot kill and so I fail to see what you are getting at in connection with this case.

[Whisper]

By your logic any mass murdering serial killer should go free, shouldn't face any justice for past actions in a court of law

Seriously I don't care what you think
and the fact that hes going to court means the people with power don't either
So my desire for a pissing contest is nill

[Sapphire]

I don't know how you deduced that I think all mass murderers should be able to walk free...

[Whisper]

by your flawed logic he's to old to bear the stress of this its to hard on him and we should just leave him be
so any mass murdering serial killing psycho path according to you at a certain undetermined age should be left alone or let go

or is it Just the SS that you feel sympathy for? I mean its not like they tried to exterminate an entire people in one of the most bloody, inhumane actions in all of recorded history

[Sapphire]

A precendent was set in the case I gave the link to. They ruled that at 87 he was too old to be put on trial. The legal system has to be reasonably constant. To say that an 89 year old isn't too old to be put on trial is going against the previous ruling and just makes a mockery of the system.

[WoW_GOD]

Your having difficulty grasping the fact that I don't care

Then stop posting in this thread? Don't talk about flaws in logic if you can't tell "you're" from "your"

[Whisper]

Then stop posting in this thread? Don't talk about flaws in logic if you can't tell "you're" from "your"

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4308/buckostfu5eb.jpg

That would be a grammatical error not a flaw in my logical conclusion. The mear fact that "you're" attacking me over that is weak. I usually post in a hurry between studying and errands now. If you can't grasp the meaning then don't comment.

You may not understand the premises of my argument but that does not mean the conclusion is flawed, retard.
If you played a direct role in the death of tens of thousands
you deserve to be dragged in front of a judge and jury, PERIOD!
age is inconsequential
and if they have been fighting this long, they went through all the international pressure to have him deported then I can guarantee you there's solid evidence, you don't commit recourses like that on a hunch.

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/1/b/9/1b957c3f7e8f1e8eaa905e683e84d89c.jpg




I miss my position
I miss being able to help out
But there are times, when I love! Not being staff anymore.

[WoW_GOD]

That would be a grammatical error not a flaw in my logical conclusion. The mear fact that "you're" attacking me over that is weak. I usually post in a hurry between studying and errands now. If you can't grasp the meaning then don't comment.

You may not understand the premises of my argument but that does not mean the conclusion is flawed, retard.
If you played a direct role in the death of tens of thousands
you deserve to be dragged in front of a judge and jury, PERIOD!
age is inconsequential
and if they have been fighting this long, they went through all the international pressure to have him deported then I can guarantee you there's solid evidence, you don't commit recourses like that on a hunch.





I miss my position
I miss being able to help out
But there are times, when I love! Not being staff anymore.You're an idiot.


But who cares anymore, you're an opinionated assfuck who needs to get the fuck out.


Me calling you out on grammar makes me a retard? Okay, why don't you go the real mentally handicapped people and say stuff like that, you're an inconsiderent dick.

[Whisper]

No i just don't like you. The discussion was over i'd left it alone w/e differing opinions and you attack me while bringing nothing to the discussion

Explain to me WHY everyone is defending the SS Nazi's?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Nazi_german_atrocities.jpg
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_multimedia/GFH/0000003541/0000003541_1_web.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hyECORLe2jg/SBZP93MiUGI/AAAAAAAABWQ/5eYuOYbhsDA/s400/Jewish+Holocaust.bmp
some of the basic G rated photo's


Why would you defend the ones responsible for the mass graves? the gas chambers? the torture? the experimentation? How would you like to be cut wide open while still wide awake no local numbing or anything just strapped down and sliced open so they can see what makes you tick hmm?

WHY IS EVERYONE DEFENDING THEM?
riddle me that would you!

Yet i'm the only one thats standing here going NO attempting to exterminate an entire people is wrong wither your Hitler or the goddamn cleaning lady. If you participate, you're just as guilty!
Were talking MILLIONS
and all they're doing is bring him into a court a fucking court
its not like they're stripping him naked shoving him into a shower and then SURPRISE its gas

[ShatteredWings]

Kodie, for once i agree with you.

The people who did this should burn.

I hardly see how someone can be "too old" to be tried. If some 90y/o guy went on a killing spree, would they let him go becaues he's "too old"? No.
I don't see the difference.

[Sapphire]

I am by no means defending what the Nazi's did.

Ok, this is probably the last ever trial relating to events which occurred in WW2.
Why? Because they are all too old now and a lot of them are too unwell. Witnesses have to be able to testify against them too and these witnesses are all either dead or very old.
How is that so hard for you both to understand?

[Whisper]

I am by no means defending what the Nazi's did.

Ok, this is probably the last ever trial relating to events which occurred in WW2.
Why? Because they are all too old now and a lot of them are too unwell. Witnesses have to be able to testify against them too and these witnesses are all either dead or very old.
How is that so hard for you both to understand?

age is inconsequential
it means nothing
in a free and just society if you commit a crime especially participating in one of the bloodiest most inhumane acts in all of recorded history
you should be brought to justice

PERIOD

[ShatteredWings]

Carole, define "too old"
If someone's sick, but they killed someone inteinonally, did they not do it? Are the absolved of the crime? NO.

Yeah, thankfully they're all DEAD. The people who commited these crimes are GONE and won't do it again.

Beyond this, i think kodie covered everything else i have to respond to you carole

I'm not gonna say 'age means nothing', because that's REALLY broad, but if someone KILLS people, just beacuse they're too old doesn't mean that they shouldn't have to pay.

[Sapphire]

I can see that none of us are ever going to agree on this.

I've judged him as being too old because in a previous war crime trial the defendant was held to be too old at the age of 87. This guy is 89 years old. The law has to have a degree of consistency.

I'm looking at the practical side of things more than anything.
Things like what has happened in the past with people this age, how the stress of the trial could affect the defendant, how the only witness can't even remember things this guy did/didn't do etc. I'm also taking Milgram and Hofling's experiments into consideration.

I can see what you are saying about him having to pay etc. But we shouldn't be making an elderly man of such ill-health endure a highly stressful trial.

Even the witness has said that he doesn't care whether he goes to jail. All he cares about is the truth being told. If anyone should be out of blood it should be the people who survived. But he's not.
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE54D4AK20090514?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

Why are you two having such trouble with the prospect of him not serving jail time when someone who actually had to live through it all has said they don't care as long as the truth comes out?
What if it were one of your relatives? Would you really want their ill-health to deteriorate because of such a stressful trial?