English in the US?

[Antares]

I find it weird that I haven't seen this thread come up.

What is your view on the use of other languages in the US during every day situations?

[Reality]

From what I last heard; the United States doesn't actually have an official language at Federal level. But then again, English is the common language there and it's classed as an anglosphere nation alongside the UK, Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.

I don't live in the U.S. so I don't think my opinion is all that important. But I think, considering the vast majority of Americans only speak English, and it is the common language there - like all the signs etc. are in English, that English should be the language spoken, and people wanting to migrate there (just like here in England) should be required to learn English.

However, if they want to speak in their own language to eachother - then it should only be on a personal basis. Not when they're working or anything like that. But I do think it's rude if there's say four people in a room, and three of them are speaking French, Spanish or whatever and only one of them can speak English - especially if they work together or something.

[Perseus]

I think it's kinda rude to talk to someone in another language because you are just saying to everyone, "Hey, I don't trust you people."

[Antares]

*Gasp!*

You have to learn English when you move to England???

How come we don't have that?!!?!?

Well it would help to have an official language first huh....
I should be president.

[lamboman43]

I think that people that come to the US need to learn English. I think they should speak it when talking to someone like a cashier or someone who is trying to sell something. But I dont care what the speak at home or at eachother. I think going to the hospital is also a exception. When they are having a medical emergency language should be the least of their worries. I just get sick of people speaking French or Spanish to me when they obviously know I speak only English. I just sit and stare when they talk to me.

*Gasp!*

You have to learn English when you move to England???

How come we don't have that?!!?!?

Well it would help to have an official language first huh....
I should be president. You got my vote!

One time I was going to a daycare in my city and they hired a spanish only speaking lady. It was sooooooooooooooooooooo annoying.

[Perseus]

Oh, i forgot. :P Yes, you should be required to learn ENGLSIH when you come to this coutnry because peopel lose their jobs because they can't speak SPANISH!! STUPIDEST THING IN THE WORLD!

[theOperaGhost]

I agree. If you live here, learn English. I do guess having a fricking official language would be kind of a smart idea.

[INFERNO]

I find it weird that I haven't seen this thread come up.

What is your view on the use of other languages in the US during every day situations?

If some friends or strangers are conversing in a common language, whether in private or public, I see no problem with that. If someone speaks some language I don't speak to me, I'll ask them to use English or another language I know (i.e. French). If that fails, then I tend to walk away and leave them there. It's rather rude to keep speaking in another language when you understand that the receiver doesn't speak it and you know that, and you can speak the language common with the receiver. I find that to be rather rude and very pointless for me to even bother to stick around so I leave.

Ideally, English should be an official language for the USA, and possibly Spanish. I'm in Canada, and here it's French and English, but due to the immense multi-culturalism, a variety of other languages are also spoken.

If you're going to enter another country, at least learn some of the country's language rather than hope or demand that its residents comply to your needs. If they're a legal citizen, they speak the language and you are not a legal citizen yet, and you don't speak the language, why should they comply to your needs? Plenty of others can speak the language, they learnt is, so you should also.

English is probably the most commonly used language world-wide, so if there are people from different backgrounds, with different native languages, then it seems only logical to learn the common language (English) and communicate successfully.

[Antares]

Okay, I think that we should make English the official language of the United States.
I also think that all new citizens have to be able to communicate (not necessarily be fluent) in English. That includes both reading, writing, and speaking.

I really don't like how our "culture" is starting to be Spanishized. Why? Because Spanish isn't the language that 260+ million people speak. The US has the most Spanish speakers in the world behind Mexico (yes, we beat Spain). Where I live, there are A LOT of people that don't speak English (we have a lot of Asian, Spanish, and African immigrants) and it just makes me angry when they can't do basic things or assume I can speak their language and get mad when I don't understand them.

So I think to avoid that, we should just require everyone to be able to communicate basically in English before they get a visa to stay here.

Pretty simple.

Also, I have heard that some areas have drivers tests in spanish....how the heck can you do that when all the signs are in english????

[lamboman43]

Also, I have heard that some areas have drivers tests in spanish....how the heck can you do that when all the signs are in english????

That is funny. I guess pretty soon they'll start putting Spanish notes under the English words on signs.

[Sage]

Given how many words and phrases we steal from other languages to form 21st Century English, I'm really in no position to complain.

[ShatteredWings]

^^steal, and often mis-use.


If someone is talking to someone they know, and they're speaking another language, that's perfectly fine.
But please don't try to speak spanish at me. I only understand about every third word, and it's annoying.

anything legal done in the US should be in english. The majorety of the population speaks it, and our government is in english (If you disagree, prove me wrong)

[Stevo 69]

This is weird as I was thinking about this earlier today,

I don't think the Americans know what language they are speaking (no offense to any Americans) as they say they speak English but they are in America so surely they must speak American.

Or do I just not understand?

[Sage]

This is weird as I was thinking about this earlier today,

I don't think the Americans know what language they are speaking (no offense to any Americans) as they say they speak English but they are in America so surely they must speak American.

Or do I just not understand?

Noo, American is a nationality, not a language. In Canada, people from Quebec speak French, not Quebecese. Although they do have some unique slang, just as Americans have english slang different than that in England.

[Archos]

This is weird as I was thinking about this earlier today,

I don't think the Americans know what language they are speaking (no offense to any Americans) as they say they speak English but they are in America so surely they must speak American.

Or do I just not understand?

I actually shout at americans i meet when they say "I speak american".
It's english, and you stole our tea.

[Skeln]

I don't think the Americans know what language they are speaking (no offense to any Americans) as they say they speak English but they are in America so surely they must speak American.
America is our continent and country. It's not a language. English is a language.

First of all, alot of the English words are derived from words of diferent languages, mainly Greek, Latin, and Spanish. So if we try, we could easily figure out some of the things others are saying. But yeah, we kind of stole from their language.

Second, I do agree that it would be easier if everyone in the U.S. could speak some English, but I see no requirement for it. In fact, it's now becomming more helpful if you can speak Spanish in order to get a job. Businesses want more customers, so they want people who can speak to those customers, whether they speak Spanish, English, Lating, etc. So learning Spanish is very helpful for getting a job, and knowing English is also very helpful. I suggest everyone learn some of both, Spanish and English.

[Perseus]

America is our continent and country. It's not a language. English is a language.

First of all, alot of the English words are derived from words of diferent languages, mainly Greek, Latin, and Spanish. So if we try, we could easily figure out some of the things others are saying. But yeah, we kind of stole from their language.

Second, I do agree that it would be easier if everyone in the U.S. could speak some English, but I see no requirement for it. In fact, it's now becomming more helpful if you can speak Spanish in order to get a job. Businesses want more customers, so they want people who can speak to those customers, whether they speak Spanish, English, Lating, etc. So learning Spanish is very helpful for getting a job, and knowing English is also very helpful. I suggest everyone learn some of both, Spanish and English.

Ok, so here is a scenriao(?). Well, you have a nice job and doing great,but you lose that job to someone who knows Spanish. DO you honestly thing that is fair? You had the job first, but you lost it because a bunch of illegals don't know any English and they(the company) decide to make more money by firing you and getting someone who knows English and Spanish. So, because you don't know Spanish, you lost your job because English is not an official language that you have to learn when you first come to this country.

[Antares]

Okay, I am going to clarify. I said English. I never said "american" was a language.

Also, just a fun fact, in California, a U.S. state, almost all state government doings is bilingual.

I also don't think that it matters that we have words that were derived from other languages in our language. Thats in the past. Speak whats in the present. Those words were added over a very long period of time. If its in the English Dictionary, then say it. Nothing else.

Last, I think it is perfectly fine to be able to speak fluently in Spanish as well as English. I think that bilingual education is very important, but that doesn't mean we have to do stupid crap like ignore creating an official language or providing spanish on drivers tests

[Skeln]

OK...let me clarify my point. Now I'm not saying that just because someone can speak Spanish means that they automatically get a job, just that it might help. As I said it's good to know both English and Spanish because companies want workers who can attract as many customers as possible, and it's easier knowing two languages. I'm not saying fire all those who speak only Engliush.

Also, if we were to make English the official language then their would be thousands-tens of thousands of immigrant who would have to either learn English, or getkicked out and I don't think that's really fair. America's a free country, so people shouldn't be forced to do something if it doesn't harm anyone by not doing it. It it's dangerous, then yeah people have to go with the law but making people learn a new language all at once...just doesn't seem right.

[lamboman43]

But they need to learn English. We shouldn't have to learn Spanish to be able to speak to everyone in an English speaking country. I think if they feel the need to move to our country the should learn our language. Or at least essential parts of it. It is annoying hearing some one speak a different language at you and you tell them you only speak English, then they just keep rambling on. What really get me are the drug dealing assholes who hop the border. They first don't have the decency to get a I'm not an illegal alien paper at the immigration office. Then they just go rambling in Spanish.
This is the reason we need an official language in the US so we can all understand eachother.

[Dragonite]

you guys are... Nvm. we dont need an offical language it would be nice to have every person speaking english but some of them dont know where to go to get that help (even though they are told where they can get that kind of help when they come over here)

[lamboman43]

some of them dont know where to go to get that help (even though they are told where they can get that kind of help when they come over here)

Well then they would know. They are just either to lazy or scared to do it.

[theOperaGhost]

My problem is that you are EXPECTED to know the official language of any other country you visit. Why should it be any different for America?

[lamboman43]

My problem is that you are EXPECTED to know the official language of any other country you visit. Why should it be any different for America?

Thats exactly how I feel. The US isn't supposed to be the country where everthing is perfect and heaven like.

[INFERNO]

My problem is that you are EXPECTED to know the official language of any other country you visit. Why should it be any different for America?

I agree. It seems rather arrogant to me that the immigrant expects the country they're entering to comply to them (hence, a few million complying to a few immigrants) versus an immigrant complying to the country. It's common sense, if you go to a country with a different language, learn the language or learn a very common language that may be used there (i.e. English).

[Koman]

I think it's kinda rude to talk to someone in another language because you are just saying to everyone, "Hey, I don't trust you people."
Shut up, tell me you havent whispered before. They can speak whatever language they want anyways. You cant try and take someones culture away from them. And why are you jumping to conclusions that they know english.

[INFERNO]

Shut up, tell me you havent whispered before. They can speak whatever language they want anyways. You cant try and take someones culture away from them. And why are you jumping to conclusions that they know english.

First, this is a debate, do not tell anyone to shut up or to do anything. If you wish to engage in such language, then either change your language or go elsewhere on the forum. You can convey your opinions without needing to resort to such language.

Second, where in that quote by DaTrooper00 did it suggest that the individuals knew English? I see no evidence of that anywhere. He said that talking in another language conveys the notion that the people speaking the foreign language have little trust for others. Nothing about that involved speaking English, so I ask you, how are you jumping to that conclusion?

You can easily try to take away one's culture, however, you shouldn't. There's a difference between saying you cannot and you should not. They can speak whatever language they want, they have the freedom to do that, I agree. However, in order to have successful communication with others who do not speak that language, a good idea would be to learn a very common language (English).

[Koman]

Well first lets start by using our brain. He said that he doesnt want to people talk in a different language and to speak a different one (ie: english) because he thinks they are not trust worthy people. Sometimes making connections with your brain helps. And why should they have to learn a differnent language? So eavesdroppers can understand them?

[Skeln]

Well, now I'm switching sides here.

Just because you learn a different language (English) doesn't mean you always have to speak English all of the time. If you want to have a private conversation, then go ahead. But it's only polite when speaking to someone else to use a language they can understand, otherwise it's virtually pointless unless you want to act it out.

I say you should learn English, but i don't think it should be a law in the U.S.

[theOperaGhost]

Well first lets start by using our brain. He said that he doesnt want to people talk in a different language and to speak a different one (ie: english) because he thinks they are not trust worthy people. Sometimes making connections with your brain helps. And why should they have to learn a differnent language? So eavesdroppers can understand them?

So they can communicate with the overwhelming majority of the people in the United States. You see what happens...foreigners are expecting the United States to adapt to their culture and language, meaning WE need to learn new languages. I feel that is complete bullshit. Teach an entire country to speak the language of a minority or teach the minority to speak the language of the majority? Which do you think makes more sense?

But "no!" that would be discrimination against the minority for making them learn another language so they can communicate with the majority.

[INFERNO]

Well first lets start by using our brain.

Oh yes, let's do that :lol:


He said that he doesnt want to people talk in a different language and to speak a different one (ie: english) because he thinks they are not trust worthy people.

Correct, that is what he said.

Sometimes making connections with your brain helps.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

And why should they have to learn a differnent language? So eavesdroppers can understand them?

No, not so eavesdroppers can understand them but rather so they can communicate with the rest (i.e. majority) of the country's population. It makes no sense to me why one large country would have to learn a variety of languages simply to suit immigrants instead of having everyone learn one common language. Don't get me wrong, speaking various languages is wonderful, however, the reason for having to do so matters. If the reason is to accomodate others, then shouldn't the immigrants also learn a variety of languages, just to make it frustrating for them? The logical and route of least resistance in terms of how much to learn, is to have everyone know English. They can speak in whatever others languages they want as well, however, they should do so along with knowing English (and whatever other languages if they so please).

If there is a group of immigrants all together, they can speak in their native tongues all they want, no problem for me. The problem I have is when they know English, they know you don't speak their language yet they speak it to you anyways. To me, the suitable thing to do is to ask them to speak English, and failing that, I walk away.

Consider this, a variety of immigrants each speaking different languages comes into a hospital and are in need of emergency care. The nurses can spot certain physical problems and treat them for that. But, how do the nurses know that the patients are experiencing internal pain or are saying they need certain medications immediately, or are allergic to a certain medication? They don't, and assuming there's aren't nurse(s) speaking the languages, the patients die. Alternatively, they wait and wait for a nurse to translate, mind you, you're now hoping such nurses are on duty. Training them for that would cost even more money. Now, consider that exact same scenario, the immigrants speak their different languages but upon realizing the nurses don't understand, they speak English. Now the nurses know what medications the patients are allergic to, they can give them to appropriate medications, etc... .

[Koman]

I dont disagree that they should learn english but....


I dont believe for a second that all immigrants want americans to adapt to them and if you do you are ignorant. Maybe you dont know but learning a language is hard. Let alone english. I would know, i am activly studying japanese (hard) and french (meh), and can whole heartedly say it is difficult. Couple that with being discriminated against while trying to get a job. Also keep in mind unless they are in school it is hard to find places that will just teach you english. Atleast not without costing money for which they cannot supply because of discrimination. I think you need to stop and see how lucky you are to be born with what you have because you could have been born in mexico or somewhere else. Oh and it is projected that whites will not be he majority for long.

[theOperaGhost]

Are whites the only people who speak English? I wasn't talking about the majority/minority race, I was talking about the majority/minority language, and the majority happens to be English in the United States.

I don't think you should be allowed a job in the United States if you can't speak English. I'm not saying it has to be your first language, in fact I'm not even saying you have to be wonderful at it. Just so you can carry a full conversation and people can understand what you are saying. I can't even see how any employers would want to hire people who can't speak any English. It has to lower efficiency, since you can't effectively communicate. Communication is one of the key factors in being efficient.

[INFERNO]

I dont believe for a second that all immigrants want americans to adapt to them and if you do you are ignorant.

Good, this was never mentioned so why are you bringing it up?

Maybe you dont know but learning a language is hard. Let alone english.

I'm aware it's a hard language to learn.


Also keep in mind unless they are in school it is hard to find places that will just teach you english. Atleast not without costing money for which they cannot supply because of discrimination.

Why not learn English in the country they are in before entering the USA? They don't have to know English at a very high level, just something basic enough to communicate and get a job.


I think you need to stop and see how lucky you are to be born with what you have because you could have been born in mexico or somewhere else.

First, you know absolutely nothing about my life aside from what I've posted on VT (which is extremely little) so you can stop with the completely random judgments. Where I was born and with what circumstances are of no concern to you and likewise, you may or may not say the same to me regarding yours. I respect that entirely regardless of which one you choose.

Oh and it is projected that whites will not be he majority for long.

How is this relevant, unless of course you believe whites are the only English-speaking people around, which would be extremely ignorant on your part. If that's not what your intention was, then I have no clue why you're bringing up random statements.

[Koman]

foreigners are expecting the United States to adapt to their culture and language

Lets use our eyeballs from now on inferno. Obviously you are unarmed in this battle of wits so let me spell it out for you.

Well thy are obviously comming to america for a reason. If you have seen the state most of mexico is in you would know they dont have viable resources (teachers) to learn english. They struggle day to day. Again this is where opening your eyes to the rest of the world helps.

Again about how "hard" your life is, the fact that you dont live in a third world country is the point i was making. Our country has programs that almost make it impossible for kids to not have a great shot at life.

I think again you need to look at what you could have been born into, because no, no matter what happened in your life, it is not worse than not had been given a chance to succeed.

[Perseus]

I dont disagree that they should learn english but....


I dont believe for a second that all immigrants want americans to adapt to them and if you do you are ignorant. Maybe you dont know but learning a language is hard. Let alone english. I would know, i am activly studying japanese (hard) and french (meh), and can whole heartedly say it is difficult. Couple that with being discriminated against while trying to get a job. Also keep in mind unless they are in school it is hard to find places that will just teach you english. Atleast not without costing money for which they cannot supply because of discrimination. I think you need to stop and see how lucky you are to be born with what you have because you could have been born in mexico or somewhere else. Oh and it is projected that whites will not be he majority for long.

If they don't want to learn Englsih, they shouldn't come to AMERICA. The original thirteen colonies were ENGLSIH based and after we got our independance, we still spoke English. So, I say if you come to America, learn to speak English, the language of which was spoken when the original thirteen colonies were founded on.
I will not learn another language unless I want to, like French, a language that I wanted to learn and I am learning.
Making someone learn a new language so they cannot communicate is not discrimination.

[Koman]

If they don't want to learn Englsih, they shouldn't come to AMERICA. The original thirteen colonies were ENGLSIH based and after we got our independance, we still spoke English. So, I say if you come to America, learn to speak English, the language of which was spoken when the original thirteen colonies were founded on.
I will not learn another language unless I want to, like French, a language that I wanted to learn and I am learning.
Making someone learn a new language so they cannot communicate is not discrimination.

Obvously you are the reason most of the world hates america. I never said they dont want to learn english. Nor did i say "making someone learn a new language so they cannot communicate is not discrimination". Because if i said that i would punch my self in the face because that sentence makes absolutely no sense.

This country also had slaves for the longest time, maybe we should exploit blacks some more aswell.
Come back with valid points please.

Oh and lets see... When we kicked he native americans out what did we do, leaen their many languages? Or bring english and sweep the country eradicating their language. Seeing as you are only 14 i wont blame you too badly because it was most likely the fault of your teachers. Or maybe you just have yet to finish school. I choose the latter.

[theOperaGhost]

I feel that if they want to live here, they should learn English or get the fuck out. If they are visiting, I guess I don't care if they know English, but they should at least make an attempt.

Would you visit Germany or live in Germany without learning German? I don't think so....you need to open up your eyes, Koman.

[Perseus]

Obvously you are the reason most of the world hates america. I never said they dont want to learn english. Nor did i say "making someone learn a new language so they cannot communicate is not discrimination". Because if i said that i would punch my self in the face because that sentence makes absolutely no sense.

This country also had slaves for the longest time, maybe we should exploit blacks some more aswell.
Come back with valid points please.

I am not arrogant. Most of the world hates America because a lot of people are arrogant and we have a Western society, and also, we a 1st world country.
Slaves have nothing to do with this argument.
Why do you think that people shouldn't learn English in America?

[Koman]

I am not arrogant. Most of the world hates America because a lot of people are arrogant and we have a Western society, and also, we a 1st world country.
Slaves have nothing to do with this argument.
Why do you think that people shouldn't learn English in America?

Obviously the fact that you are 14 is interfering with me having a debate with you so i just wont. You think you are smart but really you have a LONG way to go. Most places dislike us because of our conflicting cultures. Ie: most of the middle east dislikes us because of the way we portray and dress women.

And onto the other suspected 14 year old... Yes i would visit germany because you dont need to learn a language to interact with the culture. Its not about knowing the language it is about connecting with people regardless of race, or whatever language they know.

@ theoperaghost... That last open your eyes line makes no sense in the way you used it so stop trying to be a smartass.

[lamboman43]

You think you are smart but really you have a LONG way to go.

Dont say he isn't smart. Thats not very debate like mister. And it's just plain rude.:mad:

[Antares]

Calmly calm calm please.

In my opinion, I think that English is great and should be the official language of the United States. I think tourism is fine, because they don't live here and generally people are pretty nice. You need to know some English, but when you LIVE here and can't speak a word of English, then that is when the problem starts for me. You need to pay some money to get some really good lessons before you are granted citizenship.

[Perseus]

Koman, I am no were near stupid.
I know why a lot of countries hate us. Me being 14 doesn't mean shit.
And you did not answer my question.

[Skeln]

Koman, you really need toget your facts straight, as well as learn how to have a proper debate.

The Middle East isn't too happy with us because we were over there bugging in on their business and also because Bush was trying to steal their oil, which is why we're over there in war with Iraq. With Afghanistan, well we're at war with them because they did a terrorist attack because we were bugging in on their business. End topic!

Second, don't discriminate against the debators! Age, height, sex, race, and all that other stuff doesn't matter! We're debating, not discriminating. End topic!

Back to main topic. And it better stay the main topic, otherwise go make your own debate! Once again I don't think it should be a law, because really it would make it hard for so many people. If you just immigrated from a country to actually live a happy life here in America, and you didn't know English and had no monmey, then what would you do? By what some of you are saying then someone like that couldn't get a job and then they would live on the streets the rst of their life. And if they didn't immigrate to America then they would have lived a worse life, a life where there's war all around you and you could get shot any minute.

Now if you ask me learning the basics of English is enough to make a decent living in the U.S., after all not every job requires you to know English. Now i suggets learning English, but there are some who just don't have the oppertunity, what should we let them starve because they can't get a job for not knowing English?

[Koman]

I never said i don think people shouldn learn english in america so stop putting words in my mouth. Learning english is important if you want to live here but is very expensive to learn. I'd like to see you try and support a family, rent an apartment (buy a house if you are lucky) pay for a car and learn english, all at the same time trying to learn english. You tell me which is the most important. They dont have the money to do all of that because at the same time are being discriminated against so jobs are very few and far between. I dont think you fully understand how much money it costs to support a family, and it not possible with a $6.55 per hour job. That comes out to around 13k per year without taxes. (40 hours a week btw). Now take off the money that goes to government about 30%. 13000 * .30 = $3900 to uncle sam leaving you with $9100. Now pay dor groceries with a family of 3-4 people about $200 every 2 weeks. 100 * 52 = 5200 = 3900 dollars to live on and pay rent with a year. This is assuming these people dont hae a car which has gas to be payed and insurance (most likely huge because they are immigrants). Now you tell me you could live on less than 3900 because i have yet to take out cost of rent which is around $300 dollars a month for an apartment a very bad one at that which leaves you with $300 spending money. Looks like you better hope your child is old enough to work

[theOperaGhost]

@ theoperaghost... That last open your eyes line makes no sense in the way you used it so stop trying to be a smartass.

Actually, my last line made perfect sense. When you visit a foreign country, do you expect the people of that country to be able to speak your language? If you moved to a country where the people didn't speak your language, would you learn there language? You'd be pretty fucking stupid if you didn't.

Also, in no way was I trying to be a smartass.

[Koman]

Well in your mind it might, when i used it, it pertained to something. Yours did not make sense, you cant say to open my eyes to something like you cant live in germany wihout knowing german. Now onto the point about the middle east countries i was talking about isreal. No iraq or iran. Noone likes them regardless.

Yes now you can try and quote this post seeing as i verbally destroyed everyone in here with my last post. Continue this thread off of my post pertaining to money and living. (my last post)

And about me being fucking stupid about not learning langs if you live there... Again read my last post. (if your lexile and arithmatic can handle it)

[Perseus]

If you move to Germnay and don't know a lick of German, you'll be confused unless there is a translator.
And the personal attacks can stop, these are debates not bashing arguments.
You're not oging to move to a coutnry without knowing the language Koman.

[lamboman43]

Actually, my last line made perfect sense. When you visit a foreign country, do you expect the people of that country to be able to speak your language? If you moved to a country where the people didn't speak your language, would you learn there language? You'd be pretty fucking stupid if you didn't.

Also, in no way was I trying to be a smartass.

I have to say I was in no way confused by your post. I think koman needs to work on his lexile skills.

[Koman]

I have to say I was in no way confused by your post. I think koman needs to work on his lexile skills.

It just doesnt work you cant tell someone to open their eyes to not knowing german in germany. Attack of the prepubecents lmao. So lets end this and get back on topic, im still waiting for a one of those hall of fame 14 year old responses basically restating their points every post.

[lamboman43]

It just doesnt work you cant tell someone to open their eyes to not knowing german in germany. Attack of the prepubecents lmao. So lets end this and get back on topic, im still waiting for a one of those hall of fame 14 year old responses basically restating their points every post.

Since when was 14 pre-puperty? Unless you are being EXTREMELY literal his post makes perfect sense. I think it is time Koman that you admit defeat. Seriously, If you move to Germany and only know English, you are pretty much screwed. They shouldn't have to bend over backwards for you, just to learn English. It should be the same here.

[Koman]

I never said i don think people shouldn learn english in america so stop putting words in my mouth. Learning english is important if you want to live here but is very expensive to learn. I'd like to see you try and support a family, rent an apartment (buy a house if you are lucky) pay for a car and learn english, all at the same time trying to learn english. You tell me which is the most important. They dont have the money to do all of that because at the same time are being discriminated against so jobs are very few and far between. I dont think you fully understand how much money it costs to support a family, and it not possible with a $6.55 per hour job. That comes out to around 13k per year without taxes. (40 hours a week btw). Now take off the money that goes to government about 30%. 13000 * .30 = $3900 to uncle sam leaving you with $9100. Now pay dor groceries with a family of 3-4 people about $200 every 2 weeks. 100 * 52 = 5200 = 3900 dollars to live on and pay rent with a year. This is assuming these people dont hae a car which has gas to be payed and insurance (most likely huge because they are immigrants). Now you tell me you could live on less than 3900 because i have yet to take out cost of rent which is around $300 dollars a month for an apartment a very bad one at that which leaves you with $300 spending money. Looks like you better hope your child is old enough to work

How do you expect an immigrant to america to live within these means? ^^^^^

We are done with germany, it is irrelevant. But if you must know, mosb euro countries ie : germany, france, and spain, know much english.

Again, its not about knowing the language (which you would undoubtedly pick up from day to day life). It is about connecting on a cultural level. You dont have to know their language to goto shool in france because many classes are taught in english. I would assume the same for germany. You dont need to know german to work their either because im sure many american companies are over their that speak english like BMW, and mercedes benz (sp?). This doesnt however correlate to america, where i have yet to see classes, or business taught or worked in spanish. Which is he topic we are on. So i still would like someone to answer my first question in this post . So if you respond to the germany part respojd to the top porion aswell.

[lamboman43]

How do you expect an immigrant to america to live within these means? ^^^^^

We are done with germany, it is irrelevant. But if you must know, mosb euro countries ie : germany, france, and spain, know much english.

Again, its not about knowing the language (which you would undoubtedly pick up from day to day life). It is about connecting on a cultural level. You dont have to know their language to goto shool in france because many classes are taught in english. I would assume the same for germany. You dont need to know german to work their either because im sure many american companies are over their that speak english like BMW, and mercedes benz (sp?). This doesnt however correlate to america, where i have yet to see classes, or business taught or worked in spanish. Which is he topic we are on. So i still would like someone to answer my first question in this post . So if you respond to the germany part respojd to the top porion aswell.

If you are talking about culture then this thread isn't for you. This threa is about language. And an easy way to combat you money problem is learn English at your country then move here. TADA problem solved!

[Koman]

If you are talking about culture then this thread isn't for you. This threa is about language. And an easy way to combat you money problem is learn English at your country then move here. TADA problem solved!

Which was previously mentioned that the parts of mexico people are immigrating from for the most part dont have the proper teachers to do so. Try reading the whole thread next time. So no, my question goes unanswered still.

[Perseus]

Why would France teach their classes in English instead of French? Im pretty sure not everyone in France knows English because they speak more of French there than English.

[lamboman43]

Which was previously mentioned that the parts of mexico people are immigrating from for the most part dont have the proper teachers to do so. Try reading the whole thread next time. So no, my question goes unanswered still.

Then they should learn from other people that they are screwed and should stay in Mexico. If they need to move here so bad to get money then they need to realize they need to learn English. And if they cant then they have a better chance for money in Mexico.

[Koman]

Why would France teach their classes in English instead of French? Im pretty sure not everyone in France knows English because they speak more of French there than English.


Because they want people to study abroad in france.

14 year old translation : they want students from america to study in france.

Iamboman is not officially the most arrogant american i have met, ever. And hes 14 so he still has time to grow more arrogant.

[lamboman43]

Because they want people to study abroad in france.

14 year old translation : they want students from america to study in france.

Iamboman is not officially the most arrogant american i have met, ever. And hes 14 so he still has time to grow more arrogant.

Ok you are being an asshole. You are the most hurtful person on here.

But let me translate something for you.

3 year old translation: Amerika not France. Amerika not have to be lik France. Ther is reason we not called France. They tech differnt then Amerika.
End tranlation.

Did you understand that?




BTW, my name is not "Iamboman". Do you need glasses too?

[Koman]

So what were you translating? Lmao learn some definitions please, to translate something, you have to have an original sentence to translate. Anyhoo, i dont see how america being similar ti france has anything to do with them teaching VERY many classes taught in english. (source : internet, my french teacher who has been there like 8 times).

Also, sorry im not infatuated with your name enough to have it memorized into my mind.

Oh and seeing and how you have not been around the block enough to know that some fonts have the i capitolized like "l". So stop being an angry 14 year old because mommy said its bed-time. We (mostly me) can debate when you get home from school tomorrow.

[lamboman43]

So what were you translating? Lmao learn some definitions please, to translate something, you have to have an original sentence to translate. Anyhoo, i dont see how america being similar ti france has anything to do with them teaching VERY many classes taught in english. (source : internet, my french teacher who has been there like 8 times).

Also, sorry im not infatuated with your name enough to have it memorized into my mind.

Oh and seeing and how you have not been around the block enough to know that some fonts have the i capitolized like "l". So stop being an angry 14 year old because mommy said its bed-time. We (mostly me) can debate when you get home from school tomorrow.


My mom didn't tell me it was bedtime mister Iknoweverything.
And use the spell check function. I found 10 mistakes in that response of yours.



Just to let you know I was translating normal English into 3 year old English for you. And how do you debate when I can get home? You aren't my mom.

And age has nothing to do with you being better than me. For all I know you could be some 48 year old child rapist faking their age on this website.

By calling people ignorant and not smart you just show us your true age. If you are so much better than show it.

[Koman]

Just like a 14 year old. Lets first start with my being high and using an ipod to type this.

Lets now get back on topic.

And yes i love to rape children.

All i know is you willsoon be masterdebating by yourself.

[Perseus]

Because they want people to study abroad in france.

14 year old translation : they want students from america to study in france.

Iamboman is not officially the most arrogant american i have met, ever. And hes 14 so he still has time to grow more arrogant.

What the fuck is your problem?
Big deal, I'm fourteen, get the fuck over that. I can't control my age you arrogant punk. Get the fuck off this site. This is a place for civilized debates.
I know abroad means. I said they don't speak a lot of ENglish there because my French teacher even said they speak very little Englsih there because they're French, they'll speak French.
If you're gonna keep acting like this, Im going to bring in a mod.

[lamboman43]

I recommend you straighten up. First of all dont rape children. Second of all, insulting people like you have isn't nice and will get you banned. Dont worry Datrooper I already am!

[Koman]

What the fuck is your problem?
Big deal, I'm fourteen, get the fuck over that. I can't control my age you arrogant punk. Get the fuck off this site. This is a place for civilized debates.
I know abroad means. I said they don't speak a lot of ENglish there because my French teacher even said they speak very little Englsih there because they're French, they'll speak French.
If you're gonna keep acting like this, Im going to bring in a mod.


Lets start with the part where i wasnt talkin to you so i dont see why you are flipping out.

Also try using your mind again, not everyone in france is frenh meaning they can hire american teachers.

Oh and i have been disrespected just ad much, if not more.

[lamboman43]

Lets start with the part where i wasnt talkin to you so i dont see why you are flipping out.

Also try using your mind again, not everyone in france is frenh meaning they can hire american teachers.

Oh and i have been disrespected just ad much, if not more.

But for the most part they are all French. Like there are French people in the US.

Just remeber who threw the first punch.

[Koman]

But for the most part they are all French. Like there are French people in the US.

Just remeber who threw the first punch.


Yes but the fact still stands that they activly teach courses in english. Also about 60% of the children or teens in school study english and are quite good at it. I have had the pleasure of going to france and hosting (letting a frenxh kid stay at my house for 3 weeks) and it was quite the learning experience.

[INFERNO]

How do you expect an immigrant to america to live within these means? ^^^^^

We are done with germany, it is irrelevant. But if you must know, mosb euro countries ie : germany, france, and spain, know much english.

Again, its not about knowing the language (which you would undoubtedly pick up from day to day life). It is about connecting on a cultural level. You dont have to know their language to goto shool in france because many classes are taught in english. I would assume the same for germany. You dont need to know german to work their either because im sure many american companies are over their that speak english like BMW, and mercedes benz (sp?). This doesnt however correlate to america, where i have yet to see classes, or business taught or worked in spanish. Which is he topic we are on. So i still would like someone to answer my first question in this post . So if you respond to the germany part respojd to the top porion aswell.

America does teach classes in Spanish, much like Canada teaches French. I'm not sure why you're thinking this does not occur.

CLICK HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States) Sadly, this URL is from wikipedia, I know, it's Wikipedia, however, hopefully it will suffice. What I wish to draw your attention to are these two numbers it gives (I shall assume they are correct, if you find sources disputing it, please tell me and I'll eat my words entirely):

American English (82%) , Spanish (10%)

America does teach courses in Spanish. Whether they teach business or science courses in Spanish I'm unsure on, however, I do know they do teach general Spanish language courses.

To your first question, I would like to point out the figure of $6.55. Although this is the federal minimum wage, most states have higher minimum wage (a few have lower). Also, it is possible, although it will cost, for the countries to teach the citizens English hopefully before they emigrate elsewhere. As a matter of fact, this is something that does occur already. So, your calculation can remove the cost and time to learn English. Presumably, they know some English, perhaps not at a very high level, however, they would know enough to get around, and in doing so, can learn more without needing to take time to get formal education to do so.

Moving on to your actual calculations, most immigrants do not get paid $6.55, most get more and as they proceed to work, they move up in position and consequently get more and more money. Unless, of course you're willing to tell me that the CEO of a company and the janitor get the same pay.

You also failed to note how immigrants can hold more than one job, let's suppose, for argument sake I'll stick with your $6.55 but consider someone working two jobs, both 40 hours. I'll double to get $26,000, give 30% to Uncle Sam leaving you with $18,200. Take out $5,200 for a family of 4 for groceries every 2 weeks, leaving you with $13,000. From this, take off about $3,600 for a $300/month apartment, leaving you with $9,400. From that, take off insurance and gas for a car, and you would have a decent amount of money to spend. But, this also assumes you don't move up in pay or ranking in the company, which is rather unlikely unless you have a dead-end job, you're a lousy worker or it's a lousy company. For most decent companies, you'd move up in pay as well as presumably have a higher minimum wage.

Taking those calculations into consideration, I think you'll find there is more money available to spend.

Regarding Germany, amazingly many Germans do speak English. Once again, CLICKE HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Germany) and find these two very nice numbers (yes, from Wikipedia):

German (>95%), English (51%)

While many Germans do speak German, quite a lot of English is also spoken. You're also forgetting that other tourists visit Germany, many of whom would also speak English. It's not a simple case of Germans only speak German in Germany.

If you are talking about culture then this thread isn't for you. This threa is about language. And an easy way to combat you money problem is learn English at your country then move here. TADA problem solved!

Language is part of culture. If you talk about language of a country, then it is a reflection on part of their culture. Learning English in the country prior to entering the USA requires money. I find it very hard to believe a country would teach its citizens a language for free and do so with good quality.

Why would France teach their classes in English instead of French? Im pretty sure not everyone in France knows English because they speak more of French there than English.

How do you propose they communicate with fellow countries or immigrants if France only speaks French? English may not be their official language, however, it is a language necessary to know if they wish to do business, tourism, etc... . Some may not speak any English, that may be possible but I'm very willing to bet that due to the relatively high tourism they have (i.e. the Eiffel Tower would contribute to a nice high tourist rate), then most of the citizens would speak a language to communicate with the tourists.

Ok you are being an asshole. You are the most hurtful person on here.

But let me translate something for you.

3 year old translation: Amerika not France. Amerika not have to be lik France. Ther is reason we not called France. They tech differnt then Amerika.
End tranlation.

Did you understand that?




BTW, my name is not "Iamboman". Do you need glasses too?

First, the English or American spelling is America. Second, there's no need nor is there anything gained from calling anyone any names on here. If they called you a name, then live with it. You're being more immature if you respond in the way that you did. Third, it's a username, relax.

I'm not entirely sure what you're on about with your little "3-year old translation". As far as I can tell, the example was with France, nothing about America. Why you bring America into this specific example is beyond me. If it's in response to Koman's answer of people wishing to study abroad, then I fail to see the connection you're making. People can study abroad from anywhere in the world, so how you linked this to America I'm not understanding.

What the fuck is your problem?
Big deal, I'm fourteen, get the fuck over that. I can't control my age you arrogant punk. Get the fuck off this site. This is a place for civilized debates.
I know abroad means. I said they don't speak a lot of ENglish there because my French teacher even said they speak very little Englsih there because they're French, they'll speak French.
If you're gonna keep acting like this, Im going to bring in a mod.

Apparently in me typing this long post, I missed some heated issues. How about EVERYONE quits with unnecessary, childish insults. It doesn't matter who started it, you're not 5-years old, now act your age. It's not a hard task to respond without such immaturity. You telling him to "fuck off" is not putting you in a good light for a civilized debate, but rather, putting you at a worse light by responding with immaturity and more profanity.

[lamboman43]

Yes but the fact still stands that they activly teach courses in english. Also about 60% of the children or teens in school study english and are quite good at it. I have had the pleasure of going to france and hosting (letting a frenxh kid stay at my house for 3 weeks) and it was quite the learning experience.

The reason is because English is becoming a universal language. But most of those 60% don't seem to use English when talking to Americans in America.

I do thing the world needs a universal language. Even if it isn't English I would gladly learn it. If it was English, Spanish, French, German, Russian, Chinese, Iranian, indian etc. I dont care. I think it would be just easier to have one universal language everyone knows. Then we wouldn't have flame- *cough* Debates like this.

[INFERNO]

The reason is because English is becoming a universal language. But most of those 60% don't seem to use English when talking to Americans in America.


Nice claim, now provide some sources or some other form of evidence (your word or "testimony" is heresay and not evidence). Until then, that claim is false, prove it's correct.

[Koman]

@ inferno
I appreciate the thought out and well structured post.

The only part of your post i may disagree wih is the jpbs part. If an immigrant was lucky enough to get one job i would be surprised if they somehow faught threw the discrimination and beat the odds.

Then again i may be in the wrong time period as i am reading the jungle (a book about the meat packing industry and also about immigrants and their hardships). Im positive immigrants are discriminated against on a day to day basis. Legal or not. The main problem i see mostly is aquiring a job and i would assume aquiring a livinv area would be tremendousky difficult aswell.

[Koman]

The reason is because English is becoming a universal language. But most of those 60% don't seem to use English when talking to Americans in America.

I do thing the world needs a universal language. Even if it isn't English I would gladly learn it. If it was English, Spanish, French, German, Russian, Chinese, Iranian, indian etc. I dont care. I think it would be just easier to have one universal language everyone knows. Then we wouldn't have flame- *cough* Debates like this.

I think that would be one of the most terrible ideas next to the atomic bomb. Why would you want to strip a country of their culture and forcing everyone to know just one language. (oh and there already is a universal language its called math.). Oh and im positive iranian is not a language.

Oh and my bad for double pist, meant to not submit it yet.

[lamboman43]

Nice claim, now provide some sources or some other form of evidence (your word or "testimony" is heresay and not evidence). Until then, that claim is false, prove it's correct.

I will come up with evidence once I am sure 60% of French people know English. Until then, I cant prove anything.

I think that would be one of the most terrible ideas next to the atomic bomb. Why would you want to strip a country of their culture and forcing everyone to know just one language. (oh and there already is a universal language its called math.). Oh and im positive iranian is not a language.

Oh and my bad for double pist, meant to not submit it yet.
I never said they couldn't speak their native language. I think that people should be able to speak their own language at home,but in public place we should have a back up language that everyone knows so we can all communicate better.

[Antares]

Alright. Warnings were given out. I am going to let you guys try to have a STRUCTURED DEBATE one more time.

No fighting.
No insults.
Remain on topic.

Otherwise, this will be locked and infractions handed out.

So this is the clear warning, everyone calm down and drop the above issues.

[INFERNO]

@ inferno
I appreciate the thought out and well structured post.

The only part of your post i may disagree wih is the jpbs part. If an immigrant was lucky enough to get one job i would be surprised if they somehow faught threw the discrimination and beat the odds.

Then again i may be in the wrong time period as i am reading the jungle (a book about the meat packing industry and also about immigrants and their hardships). Im positive immigrants are discriminated against on a day to day basis. Legal or not. The main problem i see mostly is aquiring a job and i would assume aquiring a livinv area would be tremendousky difficult aswell.

I did not intend to imply immigrants are not discriminated against. If I did, I apologize, that is not my intention.

Immigrants and Americans are discriminated against both with racism and ageism (due to old age) CLICKIE HERE (http://www.apa.org/monitor/may03/fighting.html).

It's not something that is extremely difficult for them to find a job. Some may be discriminated against, however, employers have to be cautious not to step across into committing an illegal act especially if the immigrant can provide evidence that they were discriminated against. In a company, spreading discriminative rumours can land the company or people doing that in court and faced with slander, and a possible news report, both of which a company would want to avoid as much as possible.

Also, the US has many of its citizens already employed, along with many immigrants. So, new immigrants have more jobs open for them although they'd have some competition with job-seeking Americans, most of the competition I'd imagine is between immigrants.

I think that would be one of the most terrible ideas next to the atomic bomb. Why would you want to strip a country of their culture and forcing everyone to know just one language. (oh and there already is a universal language its called math.). Oh and im positive iranian is not a language.

I think Iran speaks Persian unless my geography and such is out the window. Math is a universal language, however, it's not one easy to communicate with for debates, policies, etc... .

I never said they couldn't speak their native language. I think that people should be able to speak their own language at home,but in public place we should have a back up language that everyone knows so we can all communicate better.

No, this is going against the freedom of speech. People ideally should know some amount of English BUT if in public, they still can speak Spanish, Japanese, Klingon (however you spell it from Star Trek), etc... . However, for discussing with other people of different languages, a common language should be used. That being said, forcing people in public to speak English I think is absurd.

[Koman]

yea but without math we would not be debating at this moment :P.

Math is the supreme language.

[INFERNO]

yea but without math we would not be debating at this moment :P.

Math is the supreme language.

Ah, very true. It is an universal language, however, not for the policies, talking amongst friends, etc... . Unless of course you begin going "1 l!l<3 '/0u 4n17 1 5934l< 1337" or along those lines :lol::lol:.

[Koman]

Ah, very true. It is an universal language, however, not for the policies, talking amongst friends, etc... . Unless of course you begin going "1 l!l<3 '/0u 4n17 1 5934l< 1337" or along those lines :lol::lol:.

Well obviously :D

But i do think math and english are important things for our societies structure, but we would be nothing without our culture. And not just our culture, im talking about all of the cultures that have been brought to us by other counties. If you think about it, without math our country would still be without internet, telephones, computers , radios, and many many others. If im correct we wouldnt even be able to harness electricity.

[Oblivion]

My main stance is that if you go to any country, you should either learn the language most commonly spoken there, or try to communicate some other way. The country that is having the visitor should be tolerant and patient, since they shouldn't expect everyone to change for them, nor should the visitor expect the country to change for them.

[INFERNO]

My main stance is that if you go to any country, you should either learn the language most commonly spoken there, or try to communicate some other way. The country that is having the visitor should be tolerant and patient, since they shouldn't expect everyone to change for them, nor should the visitor expect the country to change for them.

So both parties wait and wait?

[Skeln]

I think that would be one of the most terrible ideas next to the atomic bomb. Why would you want to strip a country of their culture and forcing everyone to know just one language. (oh and there already is a universal language its called math.). Oh and im positive iranian is not a language.
That is not what he said. he said that everone shoudl know a common language, does that mean only one language? I agree with this idea because with everyone understanding everyone then there would be a much better world. But even then, we don't need to understand eachother in order to live a happy life, so a common language amung all isn't a necessary thing for world communication, but it would make it alot easier.
So both parties wait and wait?
Well it would be nice if both could wait and give others time. Otherwise it'll be, "You've got 1 day to learn the basics of our language, or you're out! If you don't know our language fluently within 5 months, you're out!"

But i do think math and english are important things for our societies structure, but we would be nothing without our culture. And not just our culture, im talking about all of the cultures that have been brought to us by other counties. If you think about it, without math our country would still be without internet, telephones, computers , radios, and many many others. If im correct we wouldnt even be able to harness electricity.
There are many things that all humans understand, and if we were without that understanding then there would be many losses for our world today. Math is a universal language, I'll admit to that but as I said there are many things that all humans understand and if it it wasn't for that understanding then there would be a world totally different from the one we know.

[lamboman43]

I did not intend to imply immigrants are not discriminated against. If I did, I apologize, that is not my intention.

Immigrants and Americans are discriminated against both with racism and ageism (due to old age) CLICKIE HERE (http://www.apa.org/monitor/may03/fighting.html).

It's not something that is extremely difficult for them to find a job. Some may be discriminated against, however, employers have to be cautious not to step across into committing an illegal act especially if the immigrant can provide evidence that they were discriminated against. In a company, spreading discriminative rumours can land the company or people doing that in court and faced with slander, and a possible news report, both of which a company would want to avoid as much as possible.

Also, the US has many of its citizens already employed, along with many immigrants. So, new immigrants have more jobs open for them although they'd have some competition with job-seeking Americans, most of the competition I'd imagine is between immigrants.



I think Iran speaks Persian unless my geography and such is out the window. Math is a universal language, however, it's not one easy to communicate with for debates, policies, etc... .



No, this is going against the freedom of speech. People ideally should know some amount of English BUT if in public, they still can speak Spanish, Japanese, Klingon (however you spell it from Star Trek), etc... . However, for discussing with other people of different languages, a common language should be used. That being said, forcing people in public to speak English I think is absurd.

I never said it had to be English.

[Camazotz]

I have no desire for an "official" language. What language other people speak doesn't affect me.

[INFERNO]

Well it would be nice if both could wait and give others time. Otherwise it'll be, "You've got 1 day to learn the basics of our language, or you're out! If you don't know our language fluently within 5 months, you're out!"


:lol:, no that's not exactly what I meant. I meant that by waiting and waiting, that both parties simply sit around and wait for the immigrants to learn English with no real direction in mind as to how to help them learn (more) English than what they learned prior to leaving their country.

I never said it had to be English.

The common language in the world currently is English. The thread is about the English language in the USA, so it seems fitting that when one refers to the common language in this debate, that implies the English language.

[Skeln]

, no that's not exactly what I meant. I meant that by waiting and waiting, that both parties simply sit around and wait for the immigrants to learn English with no real direction in mind as to how to help them learn (more) English than what they learned prior to leaving their country.
Wel, ok then I'll change my arguement with your opinion a little. It wont be a whole thing where the immigrants don't try to learn the language, if that's the case then yeah they should have the government push them a little. But the government should give the immigrant enough time to grasp the language of their country.

[lamboman43]

:lol:, no that's not exactly what I meant. I meant that by waiting and waiting, that both parties simply sit around and wait for the immigrants to learn English with no real direction in mind as to how to help them learn (more) English than what they learned prior to leaving their country.



The common language in the world currently is English. The thread is about the English language in the USA, so it seems fitting that when one refers to the common language in this debate, that implies the English language.

Well don't imply unless you know what i mean.

[INFERNO]

Wel, ok then I'll change my arguement with your opinion a little. It wont be a whole thing where the immigrants don't try to learn the language, if that's the case then yeah they should have the government push them a little. But the government should give the immigrant enough time to grasp the language of their country.

Yes, the government should give the immigrants enough time. Ideally, starting up some programs, or expanding programs such as ESL (English as a Second Language) course found in high school can be beneficial if given to adults or people who haven't had ESL before.

Well don't imply unless you know what i mean.

:lol: When you read something, you figure out the meaning of it, which can be done via implication. Essentially, you've said: don't figure out the meaning without knowing what I mean. But, in order for me to truly know what you mean, you have to tell me very clearly. If you don't do that, then how do you expect people to know what you mean without analyzing it themselves?

[lamboman43]

Yes, the government should give the immigrants enough time. Ideally, starting up some programs, or expanding programs such as ESL (English as a Second Language) course found in high school can be beneficial if given to adults or people who haven't had ESL before.



:lol: When you read something, you figure out the meaning of it, which can be done via implication. Essentially, you've said: don't figure out the meaning without knowing what I mean. But, in order for me to truly know what you mean, you have to tell me very clearly. If you don't do that, then how do you expect people to know what you mean without analyzing it themselves?

Ok you hurt my brain.

Let me rephrase that.

Don't assume I meant English unless i said so.

How's that?

[Skeln]

This is really confusing.

[INFERNO]

Ok you hurt my brain.

Let me rephrase that.

Don't assume I meant English unless i said so.

How's that?

... That's getting back to exactly where we started in the first place, and a mere change in wording is not going to suddenly shift my answer to something else.

Skeln: What is confusing? If you don't elaborate on what is causing the confusion, then it probably will not get resolved.

[lamboman43]

... That's getting back to exactly where we started in the first place, and a mere change in wording is not going to suddenly shift my answer to something else.

Skeln: What is confusing? If you don't elaborate on what is causing the confusion, then it probably will not get resolved.

Well you assumed or implied that i meant English and I didn't. As you said before, don't put words in my mouth. Unless I want them in there.

[INFERNO]

Well you assumed or implied that i meant English and I didn't. As you said before, don't put words in my mouth. Unless I want them in there.

This is dragging this debate off-topic too much.

[lamboman43]

This is dragging this debate off-topic too much.

Well my point is dont put words in my mouth.

[Death]

Personally, I fail to see why he common language in America is called English. I'm not saying this because of the differences, I'm saying this because "English" is deprived from "England" whch is the country where I live so it would make sense for the language spoken there to be caled English. In America however, there are several differences in their language so how come that's still called English? Do you get variants in all languages? If so then I'd be fine with the "american" language being called English but if not, I think it should have its own name. I don't find it all that important though.

[Perseus]

There are different dialects of about every language. There are different dialects of English, Spanish, and French(those are the only ones I know there are different ones of.) So making the English spoken in America called "American" would be silly because you'd have to change the names of so many lanugages and that'd be very confusing.
And its the fact that we are saying the same words and such.

[Skeln]

English was created by England, and was adopted by America and we kept the name. We alnmost ended up with our national language beig German

[Koman]

Yea but rather we stole it from the british and perfected it.

And you can argue to say we coupd have wound up speaking one, or many of the native american languages.

[Reality]

Yea but rather we stole it from the british and perfected it.
Being from England myself and feeling a slight array of disagreement here; can you tell me how exactly you "perfected" the language? By lazily cutting out certain 'u' and 'ae''s from words, i.e. pedophile/paedophile, color/colour?

[theOperaGhost]

Being from England myself and feeling a slight array of disagreement here; can you tell me how exactly you "perfected" the language? By lazily cutting out certain 'u' and 'ae''s from words, i.e. pedophile/paedophile, color/colour?

What's the point of keeping a useless letter in the word?

[Reality]

What's the point of keeping a useless letter in the word?
What was the point in taking it out in the first place?

[theOperaGhost]

Shorter to write and serves no purpose being in the word?

[Reality]

Shorter to write and serves no purpose being in the word?
Laziness, exactly. Making it shorter to write was no reason to change the spelling of a word, especially seeing as adding the extra 'u' is not exactly brain storming rocket science.

And if you want to play it like that, a lot of words have letters that serve no purpose of being in them, yet they're still in there. There's also a lot of grammar structures that also "have no purpose". That's not the point. They're there for a reason. They're part of a language.

[Spunky]

I think it should be only custom to atleast try to learn some of a places langage. Like when we travel to France I speak French, not very well might I add, but I try neverless. But if u live some where you should know that language. Like I live in the US and personaly think u should know English

[Reality]

I think it should be only custom to atleast try to learn some of a places langage. Like when we travel to France I sperm French, not very well might I add, but I try neverless. But if u live some where you should know that language. Like I live in the US and personaly think u should know English

LOL. Your typo.
Sorry, just had to point it out.

And yeah.

[Jean Poutine]

LOL. Your typo.
Sorry, just had to point it out.

And yeah.
Freudian slip right there!

I'm quite open-minded when it comes to cultural stuff. Given my upbringing as a Catholic French Canadian, I know what it's like to have your language disrespected by some fuckin' tourist who insists in asking you directions to the other side of the city in English.

Furthermore, I live in an extremely touristy city. When I am asked town directions in English (I often wear political t-shirts in English so they assume I speak it well, and I do), I make it a point to give them their directions in French. If I'm not wearing any English stuff at the time I pretend I don't speak English. Why?

If you do not have the common courtesy to acknowledge my culture by at least greeting me in my native language - get outta my sight.

I'm not asking for the random American tourist to come ask me for directions in fluent, unaccented French. Tell me something that sounds like "excusez-moi, bonjour", continue in English and I will be happy to help you out. You have hereby proven that you're not some dickwad that thinks that everyone can speak 'murrikan fluently and that nothing else matters.

I speak Spanish, German, and Mandarin reasonably in addition to French and English. And I won't be hellbent on using either French or English if I visit Spain, Germany, or China, because I know how it feels like when some asstard North American comes in your country and pisses all over your heritage.

English was created by England, and was adopted by America and we kept the name. We alnmost ended up with our national language beig German
No. Wrong, wrong, dead-fucking-wrong.

English was brought to England by the Angles, a Germanic tribe that lived around (you guessed it) Germany. England is also named after that particular tribe.

So English was in fact created by some German barbarians wearing skins and clubbing the hell out of the native Celtic population.

English looks quite different from German because when we Normans (yar I'm from Norman descent) kicked you guys' asses at Hastings, we also brought Norman French with us and imposed our language in English high society. Then you guys decided to steal more words from Latin. That's why English feels ridiculously close to French sometimes.

Without the Romance exposure English would probably look much closer to Germanic languages (esp. Dutch) than it does now.

[theOperaGhost]

Laziness, exactly. Making it shorter to write was no reason to change the spelling of a word, especially seeing as adding the extra 'u' is not exactly brain storming rocket science.

And if you want to play it like that, a lot of words have letters that serve no purpose of being in them, yet they're still in there. There's also a lot of grammar structures that also "have no purpose". That's not the point. They're there for a reason. They're part of a language.

I'm not disagreeing with you that it is laziness, but I don't see how taking the "u" out makes it less "perfect." You are also correct about there being other words with letters that have no purpose. It's simply the evolution of a written language. Take out what is unnecessary, and a "u" in color or favorite (etc...) seems quite unnecessary to me.

[INFERNO]

Yea but rather we stole it from the british and perfected it.


How did the language get perfected? What was flawed about it that apparently was in need of correcting?

Being from England myself and feeling a slight array of disagreement here; can you tell me how exactly you "perfected" the language? By lazily cutting out certain 'u' and 'ae''s from words, i.e. pedophile/paedophile, color/colour?

I have at times wondered why some words are spelled differently, such as colour and color. My view on this is two-fold. First, the already-mentioned laziness. Second, changing some words to make them unique. Why not change the spelling of more words, I'm not sure why that hasn't happened. However, I see no great difficulty in writing or typing the "u". When I hear people say color and colour, they tend to sound the same to me. There's nothing amazingly difficult about putting in the "u", however, it seems to create some aspect of a new language, a language that uses the similar grammar, words and spelling, with the exception of a few words. It's sort of like copying some artist's song but changing some notes and words here and there then claiming it as your re-make or remix of the song.

[Death]

I agree with the easy-to-add-a-'u' thing although different variants of languages (*sigh*, I really should have known that lots of languages would have variations) choose to do it their own way so I find no problem with that. I don't hate the Americans for dropping 'u's and whatever - it's their choice. I know that you don't either, I'm not saying you do. it's not really something to worry about though is it? Dropping a 'u'? I'm sure you'd agree.

[Perseus]

Didn't the "e" get dropped off of a lot of olde things?
We just did the same and chose to take off the u.

[Jean Poutine]

That's a debate of tradition vs modernity.

Frankly, I'm all for dropping the us, inversing the -re and doing away with Latin archaisms like ae.

Calling people who drop us lazy is stupid. It's not a question of laziness, it's rather more about the general attitude towards language. Americans are more progressive while Brits are more conservative (ON THAT ISSUE, not in general, get off my nuts).

[Atonement]

I believe that our nation is set up to be equal oppurtunity and inviting. I speak... decent... Spanish and have used it countless times in my own school with students. I believe that English should be taught in school and require another language because of its availability to be used. If anyone came up to me and asked for directions in their native tongue, I would do my best to help them out out of respect and if I can't, I will do my best to find them help. When I was in Des Moines, a Hispanic man was having trouble at the grocery store and I was able to help. I think being bilingual is a GREAT thing and should never be discriminated. I don't think that we should accomodate the immigrants, but we should make the society more open to other cultures etc. I see no disrespect in other languages spoken in my town. None at all. Hell, I welcome it as an opportunity to learn.

Of about 304,059,724 people in the United States, 34,547,077 being Spanish Native Speakers, if not raised in a Spanish household, I see no reason why not to have signs in Spanish etc. I'm not saying in places where the population is like, 1% of the total population, that's foolish. But places with high concentration like Texas, Cali, New Mexico, Arizona, etc. Have over a quarter of their state population native Spanish speakers. I see no problem in signs to help people out. I think they should learn English, yes, but by moving here, I think that we should still be respectful and help them out as much as possible. No exception unless they literally disrepect you.

[Jean Poutine]

Spanish signs? As in street signs?

Using every taxpayer's money to benefit 10% of the population is a good idea. No, in fact I'm kidding. We're taxed enough already, I don't want to shell more of my money to pay for crap I won't use. Tax money should only be used for stuff that everyone can benefit from.

Consumer freedom vs government service ability. Classic left vs right scenario.

If minority communities want street signs, then it is my belief that they should rifle their pockets and shell out the cash for them. On the other hand, city councils have no right to refuse the request of a minority group wanting signs or whatever to help out the minority they represent - as long as they pay for them.

Unless, of course, you live in like, Miami or something, where Hispanics make 99.99% of the total population. Then it's a moot point. Absolute majority rules imo.

[Reality]

I'm not disagreeing with you that it is laziness, but I don't see how taking the "u" out makes it less "perfect." You are also correct about there being other words with letters that have no purpose. It's simply the evolution of a written language. Take out what is unnecessary, and a "u" in color or favorite (etc...) seems quite unnecessary to me.
It doesn't make it any less perfect, but dropping the letters and such out definitely does not perfect the language either. There's nothing neccessary about it.

I don't have a problem with the US changing the spellings and stuff, but it just annoys me people make claims like how they perfected it, when it wasn't broken in the first place.

That's a debate of tradition vs modernity.

Frankly, I'm all for dropping the us, inversing the -re and doing away with Latin archaisms like ae.

Calling people who drop us lazy is stupid. It's not a question of laziness, it's rather more about the general attitude towards language. Americans are more progressive while Brits are more conservative (ON THAT ISSUE, not in general, get off my nuts).

I honestly use American spellings myself when I feel like them, and I don't criticise people that do, it's just.. why fix something that totally isn't broken?

But then again, I know that English is very mongrel and adaptable language.

[rainebg]

*Gasp!*

You have to learn English when you move to England???

How come we don't have that?!!?!?

Well it would help to have an official language first huh....
I should be president.

I think that we do have that in a way. i learned that to legally become a citizen you have to take English classes. so, you do have to learn English to live here legally. correct me if I'm wrong

[MykeSoBe]

From what I last heard; the United States doesn't actually have an official language at Federal level. But then again, English is the common language there and it's classed as an anglosphere nation alongside the UK, Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.

I don't live in the U.S. so I don't think my opinion is all that important. But I think, considering the vast majority of Americans only speak English, and it is the common language there - like all the signs etc. are in English, that English should be the language spoken, and people wanting to migrate there (just like here in England) should be required to learn English.

However, if they want to speak in their own language to eachother - then it should only be on a personal basis. Not when they're working or anything like that. But I do think it's rude if there's say four people in a room, and three of them are speaking French, Spanish or whatever and only one of them can speak English - especially if they work together or something.

That's quite a rude thing to say, especially because I'm bilingual with Italian (Abruzzese dialect) and English. There are lots of private, and in some places, public, schools, where a language besides English is the common parlance. Of course, though, I do know that the UK is more of a homogeneous nation than us, and I forgive you, since you aren't able to see as much cultural diversity. Since there is no official language in the US, no one should be required to learn it. Remember, America is the Promised Land, nowadays no exception. I use Italian with my family wherever we are, whether at the market, at school, or having dinner at home. and I'm proud of it, REAL proud of it. Unfortunately, I have no friends who speak Italian, and even if one would know it, it would be the standard Italian, not the various dialects, as I use. There are only 60,000 minors who speak Italian natively in the home in the US, and so far I'm praying everyday that I meet one who also speaks Italian.

And, if you do not know this, of which you probably don't, Spanish is the second most common language in the US. Many neighborhoods here have Spanish as the only language used, so try telling what you said to one of them who live there.

By the way, when I said a native speaker of Italian, that does not imply that they were born in Italy, indeed most of them are second or third-generation Italian-Americans, born here in the US, of course, like me.
I mean that it's the language that their biological parents spoke to them, and that they were able to reply to as toddlers.

I think that we do have that in a way. i learned that to legally become a citizen you have to take English classes. so, you do have to learn English to live here legally. correct me if I'm wrong

Well, if I lived in England, I'd be rioting right now, and I'd probably not know a single word of Italian as I do here in the States. Indeed, many English words have gotten into our dialect, including the word for "cheese," as we're supposed to say "càsce," but we say "cìse" (pronounced similar to English counterpart) instead. But in many places, English was used to fill in an "empty word" that is not in the language. As we speak a dialect of Italian and not the Standard Italian itself, we do not have a word for "bye," which Italians say "ciao" or "arrivederci." We commonly say "stàte bùen," but that translates to "be well," and is not the word for "bye" itself, so we just say "bài."

Back on what you were talking about, I guess England is where English came from, but since the United States is a country founded by multiple nationalities, there is no one official parlance, and making English official would be like saying fuck you to all the immigrants who have contributed to our independence and our struggles. Indeed, us Italians have truly left one big scar on this great nation; we were named after an Italian, Amerigo Vespucci. Take Ireland for example; Irish, a Celtic language similar to Scots Gaelic and Manx, is the only official language, yet English is the language spoken by 94% of the population.

Spanish signs? As in street signs?

Using every taxpayer's money to benefit 10% of the population is a good idea. No, in fact I'm kidding. We're taxed enough already, I don't want to shell more of my money to pay for crap I won't use. Tax money should only be used for stuff that everyone can benefit from.

Consumer freedom vs government service ability. Classic left vs right scenario.

If minority communities want street signs, then it is my belief that they should rifle their pockets and shell out the cash for them. On the other hand, city councils have no right to refuse the request of a minority group wanting signs or whatever to help out the minority they represent - as long as they pay for them.

Unless, of course, you live in like, Miami or something, where Hispanics make 99.99% of the total population. Then it's a moot point. Absolute majority rules imo.

OK, the rudest thing I've read so far. It's like choosing not to donate to charities because in the end you do not get the food that they pay for. And really, Hispanic people are not 99.99% of Miami's population, that's just a stupid ignorant thing to say, and to be correct, only 65% of its population is Hispanic. It does not offend me, as I am not Hispanic in any way, but that's just harsh to say, dude.

[Antares]

Okay.
Soo!
Umm I was just watching the news. They had a person of some type of Latina decent. So...she was speaking Spanish. And I was thinking to myself...why the hell is she on the news when probably only 4-5% of the viewers can actually understand her.

The reason why she was on the news? She was driving (well she denies it but its blatently obvious) a van and ran into a school bus resulting in injuries (not sure of deaths). But heres the kicker, she had no license. Isn't that amazing. Now she is spending 12 years in prison. I question if shes actually a legal citizen...I am assuming she is though.

[INFERNO]

Okay.
Soo!
Umm I was just watching the news. They had a person of some type of Latina decent. So...she was speaking Spanish. And I was thinking to myself...why the hell is she on the news when probably only 4-5% of the viewers can actually understand her.

The reason why she was on the news? She was driving (well she denies it but its blatently obvious) a van and ran into a school bus resulting in injuries (not sure of deaths). But heres the kicker, she had no license. Isn't that amazing. Now she is spending 12 years in prison. I question if shes actually a legal citizen...I am assuming she is though.

I see no problem in her speaking Spanish because plenty of other stations report the news in English or other languages anyways. As for the 12 year sentence, that's irrelevant to this thread.