Do You Believe In God?

[Stark]

Sorry if I offend anyone, but I think the bible is a bunch of bullshit.

[Reality]

I'm personally agnostic, which means I'm unsure about whether God exists or not.

On one hand I can't see how God exists, and I don't believe in any religion (although I was raised as a Catholic) because they were written by HUMANS when they had no other way of explaining things hundreds and thousands of years ago, and modern discoveries such as ones by scientific research debunk a lot of religion.

But on the other hand, we don't exactly know for sure a God-like thing doesn't exist, either. Millions of people, even in MODERN day, are still deeply religious.. I don't see how I have any right to call them idiots and tell them they're wrong. Just my opinions, anyway.

[NightFighter]

em... i sort of want to believe there is a god but i dont really believe there is one.
Regardless of if he exists or not the mere thought of him and belief in him has had a great effect on people. People get strength and comfort from him. However there are those ass holes who are very very religeous and try to force religeon on people or do terrorists activity all because of opposing religeons....dicks lol

[Whisper]

Sorry if I offend anyone, but I think the bible is a bunch of bullshit.
Quick question have you actually read the entire bible front to back? If not thats a rather arrogant statement
never judge what you don't understand

I'm an atheist always have been always will be, I went to a catholic high school and I studied religion from 10-12. I understand a great deal more of it now then I ever did previously
I may not agree with what I read in the book or the stories it contains, but in the end the morals of the stories come down to having and maintaining basic human dignity towards one another. I'm all for that.

So although I might not agree with religion I have respect for it and the people who choose to live that way
I strongly believe in a live and let live policy
When it becomes there sole quest in life to save my soul
Then I get grumpy...

[Bobby]

Sorry if I offend anyone, but I think the bible is a bunch of bullshit.

Don't refer to something like the bible as bullshit. You can disagree with it, but don't disrespect it.

[Curthose93]

Don't refer to something like the bible as bullshit. You can disagree with it, but don't disrespect it.

If he was disrespecting the bible in the course of a debate, I would have to disagree with that statement, but the OP is far over the line from reasonably disrespecting a BS book, and is just bashing it for no good reason(none that he gave, anyway).

I personally believe that while supernatural beliefs are nice(I would like to have an immortal soul that can live happily in paradise for al eternity), they are baseless and, quite frankly, stupid.

This thread, however, is total bullshit. The OP asks the question, "Do You Believe In God?", and just uses it as a front to make a statement that is stupid and worthless(however accurate it may be). I'm giving him negative rep, because this is ROTW, not WPR.

[ThatDude93]

I believe in God, yes. I am a Christian.

[Doc.]

I was raised a devout Roman Catholic, however, I don't believe anymore. I would still like to think there's a God out there but logic, facts and science say otherwise.

[Underground_Network]

I believe in the unexplained.

I believe in certain concepts of God.

I believe that God is not a "He."

I don't believe polytheism or monotheism make any sense.

If God is all encompassing then God is not a single entity nor multiple entities. God is an all encompassing entity. But yes, in my eyes God is far different than what most portray God as.

God is not a being, God is all there is. God is the essence of essence. Its hard to explain, but most religion is "b/s" to an extent. There is no communicating with something that is not a being but an essence, and thus all instances of communication with God or visions through him, etc. are b/s created by the human imagination IMO. But yeah, I find prayer and organized religion to be pointless, and I don't see God as a religious figure, thus, for all intents and purposes, I'm an atheist who "believes" in his own "variation" of "God."

But yeah, this isn't my full view of God, how I truly view God is too complex and too strange to explain. You'd have to share my mind, which I'm certain you don't.

[Church]

I don't believe in the Christian God but I believe in the Lord and the Lady

[Bluearmy]

I do belive that there is a God.

[Oblivion]

I believe that a god could exist, but there is no proof of it.
But there is also no proof god doesn't exist.
So theoretically I'm agnostic. But since theoretically the number of possibilities would be infinite, and one possibility (Christianity) is just 1/infinity, which would really be considered a 0% chance, I would also be atheist.
So really I think there is a fine, if existent, line between Atheism and Agnosticism.

[nachtspiegel]

I'm personally agnostic, which means I'm unsure about whether God exists or not.

Same.

[Mzor203]

Which God are we talking about? Because there are only like... 30,000?

It's most likely that you're asking about the Christian God, but that's really no better than just asking, 'Who's Christian???'.

Need a lil' more breadth to this debate or there's really not much oppurtunity for participation.

But, anyway, I do not believe in the Christian God, as no one would be able to define God unless they've seen him, and no one can actually provide proof that they've seen Him. Thus, if there is a God, chances are he's very different in nature than God of the Bible.

I believe that there is always a possibility that God exists. I also believe that if he's worthy of worship, he can come show himself so that I know I'm not on a wild-goose chase.

[XxTheBlackDeathxX]

One Word






















No!

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I do not believe in the god of the three major abrahamic religions, nor any other religion for that matter. Some people however like to fiddle with their own personal definition of what constitutes "god". For example, if I went to an island where the natives worshipped the volcano on their island, then I would not be an atheist concerning their god; I can see that it is real. Of course, although I can see the volcano, I would still not believe that it had any supernatural "god-like" powers. Some people try to weasel their way into getting me to say I "have to believe in god" but then their definition is so far off from normal theists that it gets frustrating.

[ebony15]

save your negative comments to yourself cuz who knows who might get offended ..but its ok to make your own opinions ...a belief is a belief.. we'll just respect people whatever their religion is.

[STAYING_STRONG4HIM]

I believe in God...I have been raised in a Christian family... I know that God exists because He has healed me...He has answered my prayers...He comforts me and brings me strength. Trust me I have been through quite a lot. A lot of struggles...There were times when I didn't think I would make it through but my faith was the only thing that kept me from giving up on life. God is all around us...I see Him in people...I see their love for God and I see Him in nature... He is there...

[Curthose93]

I believe in God...I have been raised in a Christian family... I know that God exists because He has healed me...He has answered my prayers...He comforts me and brings me strength. Trust me I have been through quite a lot. A lot of struggles...There were times when I didn't think I would make it through but my faith was the only thing that kept me from giving up on life. God is all around us...I see Him in people...I see their love for God and I see Him in nature... He is there...

It seems like devout Christians always put way too many ...'s in their posts.

[Sage]

we'll just respect people whatever their religion is.

Pastafarianism.

I believe in God...I have been raised in a Christian family... I know that God exists because He has healed me...He has answered my prayers...He comforts me and brings me strength. Trust me I have been through quite a lot. A lot of struggles...There were times when I didn't think I would make it through but my faith was the only thing that kept me from giving up on life. God is all around us...I see Him in people...I see their love for God and I see Him in nature... He is there...

Or you could just be associating completely rational, natural occurences with the divine.

It seems like devout Christians always put way too many ...'s in their posts.

Pseudo-wisdom speech. I prefer keeping my words clear and concise.

[Curthose93]

Or you could just be associating completely rational, natural occurences with the divine.



That's the only reasonable explanation for any religion. Sure, it's technically possible that 87% of the human race are simply insane schizophrenics, or something, but that's obviously unlikely.



Pseudo-wisdom speech. I prefer keeping my words clear and concise.




Pseudo-wisdom... quasi-poetic... it's an attempt at semantics...they're trying to make themselves seem... thoughtful and considerate...The proper terms... are 'fluff'... and 'annoying bullshit'.... you can tell that I've spent a lot of time thinking about this post..... not.

The post could have easily read:

"I believe in god for no good reason."

Much shorter. Not so misleading.

[ThatDude93]

I believe in God...I have been raised in a Christian family... I know that God exists because He has healed me...He has answered my prayers...He comforts me and brings me strength. Trust me I have been through quite a lot. A lot of struggles...There were times when I didn't think I would make it through but my faith was the only thing that kept me from giving up on life. God is all around us...I see Him in people...I see their love for God and I see Him in nature... He is there...

I agree, even if many of you don't. But, I respect your beliefs even if you have none.

If I was the only christian on earth, then so be it. Even if I would be persecuted.

[Roxy_]

I may not be a christan but i do
belive in god, and dont say
that about the bible

[Stark]

If you believe in God, I respect that, but I believe, people are afraid of dying, which is understandable, and the main reason that they feared death so much, was that nobody knew what happened after you died, so they made up a religion, so then at least people would have something to look forward to when they die, and they wouldn't be scared anymore.

I would like to think there is some sort of an afterlife, but if there is, I don't think it would be anything like ANY of the religions, because there are too many scientific facts proving that they're all a bunch baloney. But there is no proof some sort of a God-like being(or otherwise) may exists.

[L]

i dont beleve in god. why would he put that damn apple tree with adam and eve anyway? the devil aperently betraied god, so god sent him down to hell. then he tricked eve into eating the apple. but its gods fult for putting the devil in a position to do that. there for god is responcible for eve eating the apple, and argh... i could go on and on... the stories in the bible are truly bs, sorry if anyone if offended. the christian god is not perfect like they say he or... it... is. plenty of people dont beleve in the stories in the bible but still beleve in the existance of god. i beleve if there is a god, (and that dosn't mean i do) it wouldnt send me to hell for masterbating or even for murder. god created us like this, so why would he make us suffer for our sinns? thats just unfair.

[kenoloor]

I personally would like to believe there is a God, but have found no proof in my life. I respect the choice that Christians make to believe in God but when they start trying to "save my soul" or "relieve me of satan's grasp" or whatever it does get a little annoying. Another point: don't call the Bible bullshit. Even though some of us don't believe in God, that doesn't mean that whatever we don't believe in doesn't deserve respect. Just because I don't believe what the Bible says, doesn't mean it is stupid. Different people have different points-of-view on this. Respect other people decisions about their belief system.

[Curthose93]

and dont say
that about the bible

People need to stop saying that. If you have a problem with someone calling the bible bullshit, then say so, but don't tell him what to say or not to say.

[Stark]

i dont beleve in god. why would he put that damn apple tree with adam and eve anyway? the devil aperently betraied god, so god sent him down to hell. then he tricked eve into eating the apple. but its gods fult for putting the devil in a position to do that. there for god is responcible for eve eating the apple, and argh... i could go on and on... the stories in the bible are truly bs, sorry if anyone if offended. the christian god is not perfect like they say he or... it... is. plenty of people dont beleve in the stories in the bible but still beleve in the existance of god. i beleve if there is a god, (and that dosn't mean i do) it wouldnt send me to hell for masterbating or even for murder. god created us like this, so why would he make us suffer for our sinns? thats just unfair.

I totally agree, a very good point.

[pcd31]

Although I believe a god can exist I highly doubt it. I think that religion was just man made. It was created to give human kind hope for the future, a reason to do good, and to not fear death. But religion is essentially harmful to society because arrogant assholes can't agree to disagree and end up waging war on each other over pointless religion.

Anyway, I'm atheist because I know that I don't need to be scared of a divine being to know that I need morals and to tell me what's right and what's wrong.

And for the record, I was born Muslim. And in all honesty, if I were to chose which religion was truly the best I would chose Islam over anything else. The Quran actually makes sense "most" of the time while the Bible is complete BS.

[Maverick]

I don't believe in God.

[Triceratops]

I believe in God...I have been raised in a Christian family... I know that God exists because He has healed me...He has answered my prayers...He comforts me and brings me strength. Trust me I have been through quite a lot. A lot of struggles...There were times when I didn't think I would make it through but my faith was the only thing that kept me from giving up on life. God is all around us...I see Him in people...I see their love for God and I see Him in nature... He is there...

Well said! These are exactly my thoughts on God.
Faith in God has always kept me stronger than I would be if I didn't have trust in Him. If I didn't have Him by my side for the vast majority of the bullshit I've been through then I honestly have no idea where the hell I would be right now.

It seems like devout Christians always put way too many ...'s in their posts.

Well that was totally pointless.

[Generic269]

I believe in God...I have been raised in a Christian family... I know that God exists because He has healed me...He has answered my prayers...He comforts me and brings me strength. Trust me I have been through quite a lot. A lot of struggles...There were times when I didn't think I would make it through but my faith was the only thing that kept me from giving up on life. God is all around us...I see Him in people...I see their love for God and I see Him in nature... He is there...

That's what keeps me going too. I believe God has helped stop abuse to me, made me feel comfortable with my sexuality, stopped me self-harming... The list goes on, and I feel my faith is constanty beng tested at the moment to make sure.

Admittedly, there are some things in the Bible I can't take seriously, but these are just some of the rules from the Old Testament.

So, yeah, my faith in God has kept me together a lot better than I probably would have done.

[Curthose93]

Well that was totally pointless.

Your point?

[Antares]

I have been raised in a church going family and I have seen some weird stuff that usually can only be explained by...a godly being but...as I think about it...
the facts, the witnesses and all that other crap, just DO NOT add up.
Science is fact. Everyone knows that, yet the religious people can't prove that a god exists. Science can't prove that he doesn't exist (says the religious people).

So I don't know what to believe. I consider myself agnostic.

So idk.


Also, people have opinions.
If he thinks the bible is a bunch of bullshit, it is no ones place to tell him he can't say that.
It may not be nice, but its a free internet

[Camazotz]

I used to believe in God, until I realized I couldn't prove that He existed. I've never seen him, heard him, smelled him, felt him, or tasted him. I have not seen evidence to support the theory of God. Until I have seen sufficient evidence it would be ignorant and illogical to assume He exists.

[chucknorrisrules]

I'm an Agnostic Theist.

While I believe that the existence of any god(s) cannot be known by man, I do believe that there is a chance that one may exist. I haven't yet decided which religion would appeal most to me, but I hope to soon, because I'm only an Agnostic Theist until I find the religion that TRULY fits me, if I ever do.

[jack straw]

I believe in God. I follow the teachings of God. BUT I dont follow a peticular sector of christianity exactly. I dont like how it's "this is what you have to believe. take it and worship it!" I have found a differnt path with God. while tough to explain, let me just say that there are times when you see something beautiful, and so spectacular that it MUST have been created by something more than random chance. I feel closer to God on many of my camping trips than I have ever felt in church. I dont think that God wants us to spend our lives worrying about Sin's and church, but that he wants each and every one of us to try and find our own meaning of life. ** random acts of kindness are what are important. no need to try and change the world every day, but just the little things can make a difference. Take what the bible tells us and apply it to everyday life!
Sorry, no time right now BUT i'll be back to post some examples of things I find in the bible.

[andrewgonzalez]

I believe in God as well. I'm a Catholic, and don't follow all of their teachings. For example, they condemn gays and lesbians, yet say everyone was created in God's image and that they love him. I absolutely believe that God would NEVER make a man gay and then not love him. And sometimes I think "Ok, God has bigger fish to fry than worrying about me accidentally saying 'ohmigod'" when the church gets mad at me for saying petty things like that.

[Whisper]

EWqtpqQjNug&feature=related

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Whisper = QFT Lewis Black is awesome!

I don't believe in god, and I kinda get annoyed when people STILL don't believe in god but keep saying that you should "respect" Christianity and the god of the bible. Um... nope. The god of the bible is a sick and twisted genocidal maniac! Why would I respect that!?

[vito22andolini]

Sorry if I offend anyone, but I think the bible is a bunch of bullshit.

Ha ha i agree with you!

[lesher]

No, I 've tried to believe it once, but I still not believe it. So I quitted from my religion and become an atheist.
They said there is true love, and harmony, faith, impossible thing happening, etc. Those are just stories which only people use for teaching morals. People just tell the story of bible (or myth on others religion, whatever) to persuade/cheer someone, but I bet those people doubt about the facts of the story.

For example : Come on, how could someone turn a water to a wine? There's no logical explanation behind it at all...

So, "NO" is my answer. I agree with you Stark!

[jack straw]

No, I 've tried to believe it once, but I still not believe it. So I quitted from my religion and become an atheist.
They said there is true love, and harmony, faith, impossible thing happening, etc. Those are just stories which only people use for teaching morals. People just tell the story of bible (or myth on others religion, whatever) to persuade/cheer someone, but I bet those people doubt about the facts of the story.

For example : Come on, how could someone turn a water to a wine? There's no logical explanation behind it at all...

So, "NO" is my answer. I agree with you Stark!

I can Garentee you that not every story in the bible is true. these stories have been passed down for 2,000 years, so somewhere along the line it's gotten changed. BUT I believe in the bible; The trick is to find the meaning in every story for yourself, because just because somee guys in fancy robes and a cool hat says something doesn't make it automaticly true. Miracles do happen, and if you were to follow the story of jesus, he is said to be God. If so, then I dont think that changing water into wine would be terribly hard.*
Believe what you want to believe, But what I've decided is that while I consider myself catholic, there are a few things I disagree with. They say that you Must go to Church on sunday to connect with god, But I've never really felt close to god in a church. The times that I feel close to god are usually when camping, and I wake up at the crack of dawn to see a spectacular sunrise over a lake, where it gives me time to think and reflect. I dont see God in a building, I see him in all that is beautiful in the world. Follow your own path.

* there is actually a way to chemicaly change the composition of water to wine. Although I dont believe Jesus had axcess to the nessecary ingredients at the time, It is still possible.

[Curthose93]

* there is actually a way to chemicaly change the composition of water to wine. Although I dont believe Jesus had axcess to the nessecary ingredients at the time, It is still possible.

No it isn't. You can add a solution to water to make it appear like wine(just turns it red), but it isn't actually wine and it doesn't taste like it. So unless Jesus did have those ingredients and no one tasted the "wine", the story is false.

[Sage]

* there is actually a way to chemicaly change the composition of water to wine. Although I dont believe Jesus had axcess to the nessecary ingredients at the time, It is still possible.

That is only theoretically possible. We don't have the technology to change chemical composition on that level yet.

[A.J.]

The bible is bullshit Stark. But that dosen't mean it isn't good to live by the lessons it teaches. People who take the bible literally are reatrded, not everyone who reads it. Jesus' story is identicle to two different eqyptian gods. I still think it's okay to live by his teachings and embrace him but calling him a god would be just as ridiculous as calling Ghandi god. Ghandi taught many good things just like Jesus and people follow his teachings. That dosen't mean that he is a supernatural being.

[INFERNO]

Sorry if I offend anyone, but I think the bible is a bunch of bullshit.

Fine show of maturity on your part.

If you believe in God, I respect that, but I believe, people are afraid of dying, which is understandable, and the main reason that they feared death so much, was that nobody knew what happened after you died, so they made up a religion, so then at least people would have something to look forward to when they die, and they wouldn't be scared anymore.

I would like to think there is some sort of an afterlife, but if there is, I don't think it would be anything like ANY of the religions, because there are too many scientific facts proving that they're all a bunch baloney. But there is no proof some sort of a God-like being(or otherwise) may exists.

So, you reasoning for it being bullshit is that science has shown otherwise and that is was conjured up to comfort people?

My question to you is, do you believe scientific theories shown to be false are a pile of bullshit? Is is that anything shown to be incorrect is bullshit? If so, you might as well call all of science bullshit as there is only one fact in science: nothing is shown to be 100% correct or 0% correct. Therefore, since scientific theories allow themselves to be proven wrong, there's no solid proof showing they are in fact absolutely correct. Thus, might as well call all of science bullshit.

[lesher]

So... Do you think those ppl on ancient ages had some catalyst that can create chemical reaction that can transfer some carbon to simple water (H20)?

If I studied my chemistry correctly, a normal wine should contain at least 3 composition : Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Carbon. Where the heck that CARBON came from?!

About some myth of bible... Well, it turns out that some of them was actually real.
Okay, I admit that it CAN be real, but that doesn't mean that it was God's doing. It's just a natural cycle of nature to regain their balance, and not caused by God intervention!

To be honest, everyone can take any example from life to teach moral lesson. Adding some mystical element inside that story can be entertaining for children and actually good for them. BUT, what we need isn't mystical story, we need FACT!

This is based from everyday fact (which was from my school teacher and Discovery Channel) and my ideas of life.
If anyone is offended, I'm sorry, this is how I express myself when talking about religion.

[Brazdar]

I'm agnostic, I prefer to keep an open mind about it, I may not believe in the God the church preaches, but I do believe there's something, rather than someone, somewhere that is the source of a cycle, ending whilst beginning, maybe this something is just everything and everyone, always dying always living.

I may change my way of seeing things throughout my growth and I'll may think about this in a very different way, or in the end I'll just die and burn in hell 'cause I'll be a bloody sinner who enjoyed life at it's sake ;).

[Archos]

Nope, I'm a strong athiest. However, i won't say something like "The bible is bullshit" because i believe, even if it is all fake, it gives people hope in times of trouble. So if god or not exists doesn't matter as long as people believe he is realy, then he is real.

[INFERNO]

So... Do you think those ppl on ancient ages had some catalyst that can create chemical reaction that can transfer some carbon to simple water (H20)?

If I studied my chemistry correctly, a normal wine should contain at least 3 composition : Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Carbon. Where the heck that CARBON came from?!

About some myth of bible... Well, it turns out that some of them was actually real.
Okay, I admit that it CAN be real, but that doesn't mean that it was God's doing. It's just a natural cycle of nature to regain their balance, and not caused by God intervention!

To be honest, everyone can take any example from life to teach moral lesson. Adding some mystical element inside that story can be entertaining for children and actually good for them. BUT, what we need isn't mystical story, we need FACT!


Facts would be lovely but science has few to no facts.

If you did indeed study your chemistry, then you'd know that it was known by the Egyptians and possibly before then (i.e. diamonds, ore, charcoal, etc...), may come from meteorites or asteroids, etc... . It's a relatively stable compound, so that could give some insight as to how it is formed at an atomical level.

[jack straw]

Fine show of maturity on your part.



So, you reasoning for it being bullshit is that science has shown otherwise and that is was conjured up to comfort people?

My question to you is, do you believe scientific theories shown to be false are a pile of bullshit? Is is that anything shown to be incorrect is bullshit? If so, you might as well call all of science bullshit as there is only one fact in science: nothing is shown to be 100% correct or 0% correct. Therefore, since scientific theories allow themselves to be proven wrong, there's no solid proof showing they are in fact absolutely correct. Thus, might as well call all of science bullshit.




"No amount of experimenting can prove me correct; 1 experiment can prove me wrong!" Albert Einestine. :yes:

[lesher]

Hmm.... So the carbon is supplied, eh? But even if the carbon is supplied, creating chemical reaction that can create "WINE" is....... ridicilous IMO. Creating hydrocarbons and hydroxyde... How? If ancient people can do it, why can't we do it too?

And as a matter of bible scripture, another impossible line is that the wine is a high-quality wine. High quality wine can only be achieved by storing it for ages at some kind of storage...

I'm just a 12th grader, and I'm not really smart at science (but I do love science!). So pardon for my lack of intelligence >_<

[INFERNO]

"No amount of experimenting can prove me correct; 1 experiment can prove me wrong!" Albert Einestine. :yes:

I cant tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing...

[Curthose93]

I can't understand why someone would say "I known the bible is a lie, but I'll do what it says anyway."

If you don't genuinely fear that god will punish you if you don't do as he commands, then why don't you try forming your own opinions on right and wrong, or at least go for a more tolerant, sane ideology? How can you think that the bible represents a good way of life?

[INFERNO]

I can't understand why someone would say "I known the bible is a lie, but I'll do what it says anyway."

Perhaps comfort, wanting to cling to a higher being, science cannot explain origin of universe but the bible can by saying "God did it, hooray, hooray!!" as an explanation, which is one of the lamest explanations possible.


If you don't genuinely fear that god will punish you if you don't do as he commands, then why don't you try forming your own opinions on right and wrong, or at least go for a more tolerant, sane ideology? How can you think that the bible represents a good way of life?

For your second question, not all people believe the entire bible or don't believe it literally for the entire bible. Some take it as morals, some use it as guidelines, etc... .

For your first question, people do have their own views on right and wrong, whether they believe in christ or not. For example, the bible commands to stone homosexuals and infidels but not all christ believers do so.

[Curthose93]

For your second question, not all people believe the entire bible or don't believe it literally for the entire bible. Some take it as morals, some use it as guidelines, etc... .

For your first question, people do have their own views on right and wrong, whether they believe in christ or not. For example, the bible commands to stone homosexuals and infidels but not all christ believers do so.


That's what I'm saying. The bible is fairy-tale upon fairy-tale, written by people who apparently condone murder for all sorts of silly reasons, so why trust it for any moral guidance? Why not get that guidance from somewhere that is not biased or flat-out insane? Humans are usually born with this thing called a conscience,right? So they should just use that. The bible actually leads to more crazy... I want to say 'permissive' morality than an unindocrinated human would normally have.

[INFERNO]

That's what I'm saying. The bible is fairy-tale upon fairy-tale, written by people who apparently condone murder for all sorts of silly reasons, so why trust it for any moral guidance? Why not get that guidance from somewhere that is not biased or flat-out insane? Humans are usually born with this thing called a conscience,right? So they should just use that. The bible actually leads to more crazy... I want to say 'permissive' morality than an unindocrinated human would normally have.

Debatable that all humans are born with a conscience, however, that's a psychology debate that would make this debate quite off-topic. If you wish to debate that, then we can discuss it in another thread. But, if you are interested, apply the psychoanalytic paradigm to psychopathy (not sociopathy, look psychopathy and the PCL-R up online to familiarize yourself with it if you don't know it already). That is one argument, although there are some others.

I do agree, the bible is more or less fairy tales. Personally, I view it as a very outdated mechanism that once was used to control a population. The 10 Commandments seem more or less like laws that a society would have (some of them not so much as others). However, these laws, the philosophy behind them and the beliefs in the bible are very outdated. Perhaps if we existed right now, as in myself, you and whoever else 2000+ years ago, then it may seem more believable. Back then, people for the most part, weren't as intelligent as they are today, so saying some big, bad, evil, bloodthirsty yet all-loving god exists, slapped together with a nice fancy set of fairy tales would be more believable. To me, the bible is very outdated, yet many are still bound to it, either because they know no other religious belief or they want some explanations quick, fast, easy and simple, or something to cling to in order to know something is protecting them, that death isn't being eaten by worms and maggots in the ground.

The New Testmament, is I believe 400-500 years old, so once again, it's not that "new" (not sure exactly on the date).

Whether or not an unindoctrined human would have the same morals as the bible has is something you cannot accurately say. People can have a variety of disorders or have no disorder, where their morals are very far-fetched yet they don't follow the bible. This is the main statement that I disagree with that you said.

[Narwhale343]

i dont beleve in god. why would he put that damn apple tree with adam and eve anyway? the devil aperently betraied god, so god sent him down to hell. then he tricked eve into eating the apple. but its gods fult for putting the devil in a position to do that. there for god is responcible for eve eating the apple, and argh... i could go on and on... the stories in the bible are truly bs, sorry if anyone if offended. the christian god is not perfect like they say he or... it... is. plenty of people dont beleve in the stories in the bible but still beleve in the existance of god. i beleve if there is a god, (and that dosn't mean i do) it wouldnt send me to hell for masterbating or even for murder. god created us like this, so why would he make us suffer for our sinns? thats just unfair.


You are taking the stories too literal. He put the tree there and told them not to eat from it because he wanted Adam and Eve to listein to him. The devil did NOT betray God. He was an angel who didn't bow to Adam because his pride got the better of him. God doesn'tt instantly strike you with a bolt of lightning when you masturbate. Why would you want to murder anyone anyway?

[Sage]

Why would you want to murder anyone anyway?

Hate, revenge, insurance scam, etc.

[Blue63]

I definitely believe in God, an I think the reason people are atheists at such a young age is because they're simply ignorant. Like Narwhale343 said, the first few stories of the bible are not to be taken literally, Adam and Eve, Cane and Abel, The Tower of Babel, Noah's Ark probably all did not happen, they could have but there is no proof. However the morals they teach are priceless which is why they are in the bible.

I think Jesus is proof alone, not only are the miracles he has done in the bible and multiple stories but there are gentile, non-biased, accounts of him doing miracles. I just can't image how they could all be some "conspiracy" or not real. And if you are completely educated and then call yourself an Atheist fine, I guess I can respect that even if I don't agree with it.

[Sage]

an I think the reason people are atheists at such a young age is because they're simply ignorant.

Or maybe some people just don't wish to take the mythos of a 2000 year old book as anything more than fiction. You're making an arrogant statement here.

Like Narwhale343 said, the first few stories of the bible are not to be taken literally, Adam and Eve, Cane and Abel, The Tower of Babel, Noah's Ark probably all did not happen, they could have but there is no proof.

Here you denounce a bible story because there is no proof. Take note of this.

However the morals they teach are priceless which is why they are in the bible.

Name one moral taught in the Bible that is not mere common sense. Thou Shalt Not Kill falls under 'common sense'.

I think Jesus is proof alone,

This is why you are not allowed to talk to anybody about proof. Sorry chico.

not only are the miracles he has done in the bible and multiple stories

The bible is not proof of the bible.

but there are gentile, non-biased, accounts of him doing miracles.

Testimony is not evidence.

I just can't image how they could all be some "conspiracy" or not real.

Then you greatly underestimate how despicable humans can be. Again, I quote Hitler- “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.”

And if you are completely educated and then call yourself an Atheist fine, I guess I can respect that even if I don't agree with it.

You mean well in this perhaps, but you still come off as extremely condescending. Have a nice day.

[Blue63]

Or maybe some people just don't wish to take the mythos of a 2000 year old book as anything more than fiction. You're making an arrogant statement here.

Yes, this is true, I do realize my wording choice was wrong here, and that there are every sort of cases in this, I'm just stating a case that I have seen often


Here you denounce a bible story because there is no proof. Take note of this.

I don't denounce it, the Catholic church has stated that we do not have to take those specific stories literally

Name one moral taught in the Bible that is not mere common sense. Thou Shalt Not Kill falls under 'common sense'.

Forgiveness, it's an incredibly hard thing that people wish to leave to not deal with but is the real right thing to do

This is why you are not allowed to talk to anybody about proof. Sorry chico.



The bible is not proof of the bible.

I'll take that

Testimony is not evidence.

Fine, but it helps

Then you greatly underestimate how despicable humans can be. Again, I quote Hitler- “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.”

Because he says it, is there no flaw in it? It can work, not always

You mean well in this perhaps, but you still come off as extremely condescending. Have a nice day.

I did mean well

[Sage]

Yes, this is true, I do realize my wording choice was wrong here, and that there are every sort of cases in this, I'm just stating a case that I have seen often

You cannot speak for all atheists anymore than I can speak for all christians. Which I can't.

I don't denounce it, the Catholic church has stated that we do not have to take those specific stories literally

Because there's no proof for them. Don't shift the blame to the Catholic church- You agree with them, therefore you denounce it was much as they do. My point still stands.

Forgiveness, it's an incredibly hard thing that people wish to leave to not deal with but is the real right thing to do

You don't need an ancient book to tell you to forgive people. People are people, some forgive and others do not, faith is irrelevent.

Fine, but it helps

Yes, it does help, when you actually have other evidence. Testimony cannot be your leading argument.

[INFERNO]

I definitely believe in God, an I think the reason people are atheists at such a young age is because they're simply ignorant. Like Narwhale343 said, the first few stories of the bible are not to be taken literally, Adam and Eve, Cane and Abel, The Tower of Babel, Noah's Ark probably all did not happen, they could have but there is no proof. However the morals they teach are priceless which is why they are in the bible.

I think Jesus is proof alone, not only are the miracles he has done in the bible and multiple stories but there are gentile, non-biased, accounts of him doing miracles. I just can't image how they could all be some "conspiracy" or not real. And if you are completely educated and then call yourself an Atheist fine, I guess I can respect that even if I don't agree with it.

Funny, you seem to be rather ignorant yourself, yet you call atheists ignorant.

So Jesus, the son of God who is in the bible is proof that god exists and perhaps that the bible is correct? This is creeping up to be circular reasoning and committing the base assertion fallacy. If you argument has one or both of those then might as well save your time and effort and give up (or violating certain other fallacies).

Non-biased? :lol::lol:, so something written in a book that uses a certain paradigm is not biased, especially something such as the bible? No, it is quite biased. So, you cannot imagine how they cannot be real, so you therefore believe they are real? That seems to be what you're implying.

I don't denounce it, the Catholic church has stated that we do not have to take those specific stories literally

Christians and Catholics believe in the same god, same beliefs, etc... . Don't try to blame the Catholic church for it.

How does testimony help as evidence? You take the word of someone, make a huge assumption that (a) they are not lying nor exaggerating, (b) they remember it accurately and (c) most importantly, they're unbiased. If you have no other evidence (other testimonies don't qualify for reasons just stated), then a testimony is useless. 10 people can give biased, flawed testimonies and if there is no other evidence, whose to know it's biased until, presumably it's discovered later? So, if there is no evidence, then I disregard any and all testimonies.

I did mean well

As wonderful as that may be, it's meaningless. Whether you meant well or not, I really don't care (this goes for all people).

[lesher]

I'm sorry, but I'm also an atheist, so I'm joining the atheist side.

Now, this is my simple question.
- Is the holy bible just a lie? A fairy tale book?

You've said that:
1. "Adam and Eve, Cane and Abel, The Tower of Babel, Noah's Ark probably all did not happen, they could have but there is no proof."
2. "I don't denounce it, the Catholic church has stated that we do not have to take those specific stories literally"
So is the holy bible just a lie? Thank goodness I'm quitting this... Even though it contain moral teaching which is good, but we should never try to mess with reality.

And yet, I'm sorry but this is how I express my opinion about religion, always been like this...

[INFERNO]

I'm sorry, but I'm also an atheist, so I'm joining the atheist side.

Now, this is my simple question.
- Is the holy bible just a lie? A fairy tale book?

You've said that:
1. "Adam and Eve, Cane and Abel, The Tower of Babel, Noah's Ark probably all did not happen, they could have but there is no proof."
2. "I don't denounce it, the Catholic church has stated that we do not have to take those specific stories literally"
So is the holy bible just a lie? Thank goodness I'm quitting this... Even though it contain moral teaching which is good, but we should never try to mess with reality.

And yet, I'm sorry but this is how I express my opinion about religion, always been like this...

First, when you say we shouldn't "mess with reality", there is one question: what is reality? Each of us have our own "reality", and each of us change our reality as we mature, acquire more and newer information, etc... . So, is changing reality bad? To me, it's not or else you'd always be stuck mentally in your little world refusing to allow anything new into it. So, changing it is good, however, what matters is how you change it and what it is changed to.

As for calling the bible a lie, then using Adam and Eve, etc... as evidence, that hasn't proven it's a lie. It can show parts of the bible may be false, however, not the entire thing. It's like this, if I make some big fancy biographical novel about someone, and one part is a lie, then does that make my entire book a lie? Of course not. It may reduce it's credibility but the whole thing is not a lie.

As for your second quote involving the church, I fail to see how that's supporting your argument that the bible is a lie. All it is saying is not to take it all literally, thus, you can interpret it metaphorically. So once again, explain how this part of your argument.

For your main question, I've already addressed the issue of calling it a lie. For calling it a fairy-tale book, this is not too difficult. Define what a fairy tale is, and presumably the bible would satisfy that definition. HOWEVER, even though it may be a fairy tale, that does not mean nor does it serve as good argument of the bible being a lie. I'm not sure if you were planning to link those two together or not but if you were, then I'd strongly reconsider it.

[Blue63]

Wow that's a lot of new opinions to deal with, I respect that. I'll touch on some subjects quickly now.

yet you call atheists ignorant.

Ok, second time I have said this, I AM NOT CALLING ALL ATHIESTS IGNORANT, if it came off that way originally I'm sorry, I;m saying that I have seen a lot of cases of atheists that are atheists because of ignorance. I see you guys are knowledgeable


Christians and Catholics believe in the same god, same beliefs, etc... . Don't try to blame the Catholic church for it.

Yes...I am quite aware of that (I am also aware that our God the Father is the same as God Jewish people believe in, and Allah of the muslims), I am Roman Catholic, who am I blaming here? No one, I don't believe those stories as pure truth, I have been told by many religion teachers we don't need to see those stories as truth but to believe in the morals they teach


So is the holy bible just a lie? Thank goodness I'm quitting this... Even though it contain moral teaching which is good, but we should never try to mess with reality.


A lie? Certainly not, the way I see it at least. Those stories, those 4 stories can be seen as fictional, the rest of the bible is to be seen as fact whether people believe that or not

To quote the gospel of John "The epitome of faith is those who believe without seeing the face of the Lord" That is the Christian Church today. Faith can ground people, give them hope in rough times. Even if I'm completely wrong and there is no God, no Heaven, nothing, I'll know that my faith gave me peace of mind during times of loss, times of distress, and times of fear, it has comforted my fear of death and made me try to open my heart and see the good in people.

[Curthose93]

Wow that's a lot of new opinions to deal with, I respect that. I'll touch on some subjects quickly now.



Ok, second time I have said this, I AM NOT CALLING ALL ATHIESTS IGNORANT, if it came off that way originally I'm sorry, I;m saying that I have seen a lot of cases of atheists that are atheists because of ignorance. I see you guys are knowledgeable

You claim that most atheist don't beleive in god because they are ignorant... of what, exactly?



Yes...I am quite aware of that (I am also aware that our God the Father is the same as God Jewish people believe in, and Allah of the muslims), I am Roman Catholic, who am I blaming here? No one, I don't believe those stories as pure truth, I have been told by many religion teachers we don't need to see those stories as truth but to believe in the morals they teach

The god of the mohammedans and the gods of the jews are not the same. They are seperate ideas that reflect the values and histories of two very different cultures. ANd I find it funny that you say the your teachers tell you that the stories need not be taken literally, so you don't. If they told you that they must be taken literally, I imagine you would do so. Am I right?



A lie? Certainly not, the way I see it at least. Those stories, those 4 stories can be seen as fictional, the rest of the bible is to be seen as fact whether people believe that or not

You pick and choose from a big book of lies(written by people more ignorant of the world than the young atheists of today whom you deride so much) to justify your beliefs. If the facts do not justify your beliefs, then why do you believe in it?

Faith can ground people, give them hope in rough times. Even if I'm completely wrong and there is no God, no Heaven, nothing, I'll know that my faith gave me peace of mind during times of loss, times of distress, and times of fear, it has comforted my fear of death and made me try to open my heart and see the good in people.

You can't do that without being told to? I find that pathetic.


You claim that people who don't believe as you do are ignorant. You yourself are so ignorant and arrogant that it's almost sickening.

[Bobby]

Let me remind everybody this is a debate - not the place to call others arrogant.

[jack straw]

Has anybody else realised that nearly every single piece of sacred historic writing has had to have been passed down for thousnads of years, and then translated from another language. I DO believe in god, I DO follow most of the beliefs of the christian church, I DO read the bible for fun every now and then... BUT we all must realise that A. if you are catholic, Your bible is constantly being updated and reviewed by people in the vaticant city, who change a few stories slightly, or leave out the parts they dont want us to hear. Hey, when translating a 2,000+ year old book, there are bound to be a few misinterped quotes, etc... So do I follow the Bible as law? no. Do I feel that we must all go to church on sunday to be saved? NO. I have felt closer to god when standing on a rocky outcrop watching a spectacular sunrise over a vally full of trees and flowers in full bloom. I dont think that the bible says that we have to go to church every suday, but what I know is that we should just follow it's teachings and try and find our own meaning in it. Oppps... gotta go.

[Blue63]

You claim that most atheist don't beleive in god because they are ignorant... of what, exactly?

Most Atheists I have personally seen I said, such as friends. I call SOME of them ignorant because they really have very little idea of the bible and its ideals. They just refuse to believe in God because of a few reasons they've heard from others or because they are simply enticed by what they see on TV or around them and think Atheist is the new way to go. I now know many Atheists are knowledgeable, they've seen it all and choose not to believe, at least they know the facts


The god of the mohammedans and the gods of the jews are not the same. They are seperate ideas that reflect the values and histories of two very different cultures. ANd I find it funny that you say the your teachers tell you that the stories need not be taken literally, so you don't. If they told you that they must be taken literally, I imagine you would do so. Am I right?

The Jews don't believe in the Holy Trinity, just our equivalent to God the Father, you know the Jewish Torah is the Christian Pentateuch and in the Bible. From what I have read about Allah yes he is the same, but I may have jumped the gun by saying that. Yes I know the Ideals are very different, but I was more talking about God as a being.

You call me arrogant? I think that is an arrogant statement right there, I am old enough to decide upon my own religion, I've looked into other religions beside Roman Catholicism, it just so happens that I go to a Catholic school so that's what they teach and I CHOOSE to believe. If my religion teacher said Jesus just came for his 2nd coming you think I would jump to believe that? I certainly would not.


You pick and choose from a big book of lies(written by people more ignorant of the world than the young atheists of today whom you deride so much) to justify your beliefs. If the facts do not justify your beliefs, then why do you believe in it?

Why do I believe in it, because I believe that I have seen the work of God on this earth, I'm not "picking and choosing out of a book of lies" to justify my faith, I accept the Bible as a whole and believe in it as a whole, it is how I believe in it that is important (I believe it as truth except what I and the rest of the Roman Catholic church have said can be interpreted a bit differently)

You can't do that without being told to? I find that pathetic

We are all human, we all have flaws. When you look at what appears to be an awful person, someone who committed adultery, murder, or even mass genocide you tell me that you immediately see past those grievous offenses to look upon the good in them. I have a role model, Jesus Christ, who when saw people like that did not get angry, did not call them terrible human beings, but saw the good in them and gave them a chance to repent. That is what I try to do, even when it is terribly hard, I have motivation to do so, and that might be what the difference is between you and I
....

[ElectroPhunk]

I dont believe in God (Athiest) But im not one of those crazy satan freaks either... I just,,,,dont think anybody is up their, Ya know?

[INFERNO]

I dont believe in God (Athiest) But im not one of those crazy satan freaks either... I just,,,,dont think anybody is up their, Ya know?

Thank you for calling Satanists "crazy satan freaks", for both LaVeyan and Theistic Satanists. You can easily respond without using such derogatory terms regardless if you understand the beliefs you are referring to or not.

[Curthose93]

Blue 63: "You call me arrogant? I think that is an arrogant statement right there, I am old enough to decide upon my own religion..."

You are old enough to decide upon your own religion, yet others who choose not to have religion must simply be ignorant, rebellious youths? Why must people know the bible to be able to be an atheist, when Christians don't need to learn anything about science to be able to choose their religion? I have no justification to call you ignorant(although I admit I did, sorry), even though I highly doubt you know the details of the theories regarding the Big Bang, abiogenesis, evolution, consciousness and so on....

[lesher]

I believe in science and facts

[Sage]

I highly doubt you know the details of the theories regarding the Big Bang, abiogenesis, evolution, consciousness and so on....

I'd just like to add that abiogenesis and consciousness (neuropsychology, partly) are still being developed. They're not nearly as fleshed out as the other theories mentioned.

[INFERNO]

I highly doubt you know the details of the theories regarding the Big Bang, abiogenesis, evolution, consciousness and so on....

Well, the concepts of the Big Bang, evolution and abiogenesis are still being developed. The concepts of consciousness are in debate still, and as neuroscience progress, the debates have more to debate (rather an obvious thing).

I believe in science and facts

Care to say why, otherwise saying "I believe...." is rather meaningless without knowing why, as how can one debate with that?

[Blue63]

Blue 63: "You call me arrogant? I think that is an arrogant statement right there, I am old enough to decide upon my own religion..."

You are old enough to decide upon your own religion, yet others who choose not to have religion must simply be ignorant, rebellious youths? Why must people know the bible to be able to be an atheist, when Christians don't need to learn anything about science to be able to choose their religion? I have no justification to call you ignorant(although I admit I did, sorry), even though I highly doubt you know the details of the theories regarding the Big Bang, abiogenesis, evolution, consciousness and so on....

I guess we both jumped the line a bit there than by butting heads, and I apologize. But I do think you should know the Bible very well before you called it "bullshit" or a "book of lies."

You are right I do not know the details of those theories so I won't speak against them. Although believe it or not I am rather fascinated by them

[CestDan]

First of all, You shouldn't call the bible like that, I respect that you disagree with it, so please respect it.

Second, bible, I think, is a text that can help you to see how much wonderful life is. A lot of people don't understand it, so they give up and say that it doesn't have any sense. But once you understand it, you life can change completely.

The secret in all this stuff is that many people try to find some "sense" in the words that there are on it, but it is not like that. Bible is metaphorical, so you have to understand what it says but not in the words that you are reading in the paper but what they really mean.

Believe me, bible is a perfect guide for lifes.

[Curthose93]

I guess we both jumped the line a bit there than by butting heads, and I apologize. But I do think you should know the Bible very well before you called it "bullshit" or a "book of lies."

You are right I do not know the details of those theories so I won't speak against them. Although believe it or not I am rather fascinated by them

I know the bible quite well. Why do you think I hate it so much?(rhetorical)

Your apology is accepted. I apologize for calling you arrogant.

Well, the concepts of the Big Bang, evolution and abiogenesis are still being developed. The concepts of consciousness are in debate still, and as neuroscience progress, the debates have more to debate (rather an obvious thing).


That's beside the point, isn't it? I meant that most religious believers dismiss complex sh*t like life and whatnot to be too complex to have developed without divine help, simply because they have little to no understanding of the physical universe, see? Everything seems impossibly complex if you don't even understand the basics.

First of all, You shouldn't call the bible like that, I respect that you disagree with it, so please respect it.

Second, bible, I think, is a text that can help you to see how much wonderful life is. A lot of people don't understand it, so they give up and say that it doesn't have any sense. But once you understand it, you life can change completely.

The secret in all this stuff is that many people try to find some "sense" in the words that there are on it, but it is not like that. Bible is metaphorical, so you have to understand what it says but not in the words that you are reading in the paper but what they really mean.

Believe me, bible is a perfect guide for lifes.

I'll believe you once you prove it.

[Sage]

Second, bible, I think, is a text that can help you to see how much wonderful life is. A lot of people don't understand it, so they give up and say that it doesn't have any sense. But once you understand it, you life can change completely.

The secret in all this stuff is that many people try to find some "sense" in the words that there are on it, but it is not like that. Bible is metaphorical, so you have to understand what it says but not in the words that you are reading in the paper but what they really mean.

Believe me, bible is a perfect guide for lifes.

I could just as easily say the same thing about a cheesy romance novel I was reading while on vacation away from my ex-girlfriend. Impact one one's life does not mean something is true- Sure, I love the Dark Tower series by Stephen King, and I might feel a little wiser for reading through it, but it is not something I would base my life on, whether I took the story as literal or metaphorical.

[INFERNO]

Second, bible, I think, is a text that can help you to see how much wonderful life is. A lot of people don't understand it, so they give up and say that it doesn't have any sense. But once you understand it, you life can change completely.

The same can be said after reading or watching a book or movie.

The secret in all this stuff is that many people try to find some "sense" in the words that there are on it, but it is not like that. Bible is metaphorical, so you have to understand what it says but not in the words that you are reading in the paper but what they really mean.

I agree, if you are to read something, you don't just absent mindedly stare at it, you read it and try to understand it, see what it implies.

Believe me, bible is a perfect guide for lifes.

No, don't think I need to believe you. Why is it a perfect guide? Have you read other religious texts of other beliefs, or have you narrow-mindedly concluded that the belief you believe in has the best book?

That's beside the point, isn't it? I meant that most religious believers dismiss complex sh*t like life and whatnot to be too complex to have developed without divine help, simply because they have little to no understanding of the physical universe, see? Everything seems impossibly complex if you don't even understand the basics.

I assume when you say religious believers, you mean people who follow Christ or are you applying it generally to all beliefs? I have seen and heard many Christians dismiss scientific theories on the basis of life being too complex for science to understand. I have a few Christian friends who study science, and they can keep beliefs and science separate enough. Sadly, they tend to be the minority.

[Sage]

I have seen and heard many Christians dismiss scientific theories on the basis of life being too complex for science to understand.

Yeah, that's what started all this Intelligent Design stuff we hear about these days.

[Perseus]

I know the bible quite well. Why do you think I hate it so much?(rhetorical)

Your apology is accepted. I apologize for calling you arrogant.



That's beside the point, isn't it? I meant that most religious believers dismiss complex sh*t like life and whatnot to be too complex to have developed without divine help, simply because they have little to no understanding of the physical universe, see? Everything seems impossibly complex if you don't even understand the basics.



I'll believe you once you prove it.
Mr Curthose, I am relgious and I know a lot about the universe, science, and I believe in some parts of evolution, so you shouldn't say that most don't believe in science, when a lot do.

[INFERNO]

Mr Curthose, I am relgious and I know a lot about the universe, science, and I believe in some parts of evolution, so you shouldn't say that most don't believe in science, when a lot do.

I don't always understand how someone claims to believe in "parts of evolution". Either you do or you don't. If you believe parts, then there's a high chance you're going to butcher it up.

Also, you believing in science and religion does not in any way, shape or form refute the statement he made about most not believing. If anything, you've supported his statement. Had he said all then that'd be wrong but if it's most, you've supported him in trying to refute him.

[Perseus]

I've already explained this to you INFERNO. I do not believe in mciro-evolution, that is the only part of evolution of which I do not believe.

[bobtom]

Yes I do believe in God.

[INFERNO]

I've already explained this to you INFERNO. I do not believe in mciro-evolution, that is the only part of evolution of which I do not believe.

I know you have, and I still fail to see how you don't believe in micro-evolution yet believe in the rest of evolution.

[lesher]

I know you have, and I still fail to see how you don't believe in micro-evolution yet believe in the rest of evolution.

Agreed with INFERNO, the beginning of evolution begins and LINKED DIRECTLY with micro evolution.

[Perseus]

Micro-evolution, in my own opinion, does not seem logical.
I understand, slightly, singled organism becoming multi-celled, but a multi cell microscopic organism evolving into a,say a pre-historic fish, doesn't sound right in my eyes.

[Curthose93]

I understand, slightly, singled organism becoming multi-celled, but a multi cell microscopic organism evolving into a,say a pre-historic fish, doesn't sound right in my eyes.


If it sounded like anything in your eyes.... nevermind.

Anyway, I should ask why it doesn't sound right to you.

[INFERNO]

Micro-evolution, in my own opinion, does not seem logical.
I understand, slightly, singled organism becoming multi-celled, but a multi cell microscopic organism evolving into a,say a pre-historic fish, doesn't sound right in my eyes.

Ah yes, this issue again. Have you begun the course in evolution you mentioned a while ago? If not, then let me say this, such evolution takes time. I don't understand how you can understand a unicellular organisms becoming multicellular yet cannot comprehend a multicellular organisms becoming increasingly complex.

Here's an analogy: you start with one piece of Lego (unicellular). Add on another piece, now we have a multicellular organism. Keep adding and adding and adding, and you get a larger and larger and larger organism, eventually reaching a pre-historic fish or any other organism.

[Perseus]

I would explain, but it'd be kinda hijacking this thread so hold on I'll get you the link to my thread I made about evolution.

This is the thread, look about a page back though from here because I might've forgotten something. (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37791&page=6)

Oh and IFERNO, I haven't taken the class yet, but I doubt it'd go into detail because a lot of Christians will complain... but I'LL talk about it with my teacher, as long as he'she is educated on it.

[Death]

I used to believe in God but now I'm an athiest. The reason being is that firstly, my prayers have never had any effect. For example, I once prayed to God asking him to speak to me just so that I could hear his voice, so that I knew he existed. Like all prayers, nothing happened so there must either be no god or a very rude one!

Besides, the way I see it, people want to think their life has a purpose, that death is inevitable because they are scared of death. It could also be that they want an explaination of what happens. They don't want to think scientifically about things, they want simple answers but I however do not believe any of this. I also find the bible very bigoted and discriminate.

True Christians would live their life based on the bible and would therefore hate athiests (believing them to be blind fools, etc), be homophobic, etc. True, you could believe but not do that but then again, you're not a true Chrisitan. Another thing is that you only believe it because you were taught. If you were not brought up as a Catholic, you would be perfectly happy with a secular life. In fact, being born in a different country would likely mean you have a different religion too. Gow can you say your religon is true when you only usually have it for being born it your country? You simply can't.

I do not have a problem with religious people but I do have a problem with enthusiasts (and there are way to many of them) who either act out the discrimination in the bible or force others to be your way or even being rude enough to simply assume you are of a religon wihtout any thought that you may not believe in the same things as they do or belive in anything at all, instead searching for reasons that do not involve blaming everything or thanking everything on a single person. So, I'm definetely an athiest.

[lesher]

@Death : Hey, we're on same boat! My experience is exactly the same with you!!

[Death]

@Death : Hey, we're on same boat! My experience is exactly the same with you!!

Well, thanks! Glad to know that there are others like me. :)

[lesher]

@Death : Yeah, me too, I never thought that someone had a same experience with me

[Stark]

I know the bible, I used to go to church, I probably do not know it as well as others, but I still know it pretty well. And all the stories from the bible I've read and heard, I found bullshit, and for the lessons of good, they're just common sense. Like "thought not kill." And for people to respect one another, It's all common sense.

[Specter]

I kind of belive in it.

[INFERNO]

I kind of belive in it.

How do you "kind of believe in it"? What parts do you believe and disbelieve? It's hard to have some form of debate when no reasons are provided, only "i kind of believe".

[Zazu]

I do not believe that the Christian god exists, and I still have never seen any real solid proof as to why the Christian bible is real / valid. I just feel that anyone could have written something like the Christian bible; just because someone wrote it on paper doesn't mean it solidly exists. At the same time, I don't deny the possibility of there being some kind of true religion / an existent god.

I'm also not keen on most religions because religion has caused the most war, pain, suffering and arguments in the world than anything else imo.

The one religion I would happily be part of is buddhism.

[Death]

I'd understand that. Buddhism from my experience would be the one religion that doesn't hate anyone of other religons (forgive me if I'm wrong) although I still believe that this is all a story to discriminate against those who religious people hate and make themselves feel better. Sounds quite corrupt if you think about it. By being athiest, you are keeping away from such matters. But then again, you are becoming the enemies of the true Christians...

In fact, to hell with them; your beliefs count.

[Clawhammer]

Christians don't hate other religions, only the ones with completely wrong ideas of what Christianity is. I don't hate them, I want them to become Christians too, because nobody should have to go to Hell when they can easily avoid it, because Christ died for us, thereby becoming the ultimate sacrifice that paid off everyone's debts from sin.

[Sage]

I'd understand that. Buddhism from my experience would be the one religion that doesn't hate anyone of other religons (forgive me if I'm wrong) although I still believe that this is all a story to discriminate against those who religious people hate and make themselves feel better. Sounds quite corrupt if you think about it. By being athiest, you are keeping away from such matters. But then again, you are becoming the enemies of the true Christians...

In fact, to hell with them; your beliefs count.

Most Pagan religions aren't hostile to others, along with many tribal beliefs in Africa, among native Americans, etc.

Also, there is no such thing as a 'true' christian. Any christian may claim that their denomination is the 'true' one, just as any Atheist might just look for the most literal interpretation of the bible and say that is the 'true' one.

[Death]

True, you have a point but the bible, is against other religions however (they have discriminitive texts in there). And sorrowsingsoftly, when I said "to hell with them", I actually meant that you should forget about what they try to enforce on you. I don't believe in God so I was only using an expression. As for avoiding hell, easier said than done. Lastly, there's a lot of evil in the world. So yes, a man dies; guess what, the world's still just as bad. If that were truly God, wouldn't the effects carry on after biblical times? Don't mean to be nasty, but that's how it seems to be. But yes, I agree that there are plenty of non-discriminate religions.

[amppi1236]

I don't care if there is a god/god like being... if people tell me "there is a god" I reply "then there is" if people tell me "there isn't a god" I reply "then there isn't"! I don't pray, go to church or do anything like that and if somebody proves me there is a god/god like being I still won't do any of those things.

[Jagador]

No, i don't believe in god, nor did he ever exist. I do believe however, that there is something controling everything that is happening somewhere in a parallel universe that is unknown.

[Requin]

Old thread. :locked: