Gay Tolerance?!?

[Axellance]

How tolerant is America? most people think that they will be treated poorly if they "come out" as being gay but while i beleive that we still have a longways to go, the united stated has come a long way in the last few years in the way of tolerance.I still think its unfair how in the US lesbians are much more accepted then homosexual men when its essentially the same thing. I don't know about other parts of the world but feel free to bring the place you live into this. feel free to discuss and debate :P

this video opened my eyes a little to how may people will be protective of gay men.

qD97D6OEV80&feature=related

[ShatteredGlass]

Being homosexual is not right and it's nothing to be proud of. If we were meant to procreate with the same sex then we would have been able to do so, but hey, we can't.

Where I think that mistreating people because they are gay is wrong, and I do not agree with it because you dont see gay people mistreating straight people because they're straight.

I dont think that "gay bashing" is right, though I also wish that we could go back to the time when "gay" meant happy, and I wish that no one was so.

[Doc.]

Being homosexual is not right and it's nothing to be proud of. If we were meant to procreate with the same sex then we would have been able to do so, but hey, we can't.
Why isn't it right and if one is, why not be proud? I'm proud of when I work hard to buy a new suit, is that such a crime? Explain to me the difference, dear.

[Sage]

Being homosexual is not right and it's nothing to be proud of. If we were meant to procreate with the same sex then we would have been able to do so, but hey, we can't.

So I guess you don't like people who are sterile or infertile either, right?

I dont think that "gay bashing" is right, though I also wish that we could go back to the time when "gay" meant happy, and I wish that no one was so.

Bahaha. Whether they called it 'gay' or not, homosexuals have always been around, people are simply more open about it these days because society is (in most places) no longer run under dogmatic theocracy where being gay will get your thrown in prison or killed.

[dyslexiaa]

Being homosexual is not right and it's nothing to be proud of. If we were meant to procreate with the same sex then we would have been able to do so, but hey, we can't.

Where I think that mistreating people because they are gay is wrong, and I do not agree with it because you dont see gay people mistreating straight people because they're straight.

I dont think that "gay bashing" is right, though I also wish that we could go back to the time when "gay" meant happy, and I wish that no one was so.

People are gonna jump all over this one, get your flame shield ready.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z284/gleesona/FlameShield.jpg

I have no problems with gay people whatsoever. A lot of people I know get real awkward when they're around homosexual people. Some people make fun of homosexual people. I do live in a hicktown in the middle of nowhere, so it's pretty expected when there's only like 3 gay dudes total. I doubt it's this bad in the city where people get a better grasp of differences. It's hard to be tolerant when it's all straight, christian, white people.

If you're a cool person, I don't care what you do in bed. You like what you like, there's nothing you can do about it.

[ShatteredGlass]

I have no problems with gay people whatsoever. It's hard to be tolerant when it's all straight, christian, white people.

If you're a cool person, I don't care what you do in bed. You like what you like, there's nothing you can do about it.

I dont have problems with the people themselves, I have a problem with the act.

And what do you mean straight, christian, white people? I know white people who are gay, and are saying that other races arent religious?

What do you mean, you like what you like? I get tired of hearing people talk about how being gay is not a choice. I admit for some people it isnt, like the people who have they're brains all funny, so that they have the mind of a guy and a body of a girl or vice versa, but not every gay person has that disease.

So I guess you don't like people who are sterile or infertile either, right?



Bahaha. Whether they called it 'gay' or not, homosexuals have always been around, people are simply more open about it these days because society is (in most places) no longer run under dogmatic theocracy where being gay will get your thrown in prison or killed.


Being sterile or infertile is not a choice, (not counting vesectimies or having your tubes tied). So no I don't have problems with sterile/infertile people.

Yes, I know homosexuals have always been around, and I dont agree with killing someone or persecuting someone because they're gay.

Why isn't it right and if one is, why not be proud? I'm proud of when I work hard to buy a new suit, is that such a crime? Explain to me the difference, dear.


Why isnt it right? 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Remember Leviticus is in the old testament, we can just repent now.

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

Are you saying that a person should be proud of murder? Cheating on a wife or husband?

In the bible it says, a sin is a sin, all of them serve the same purpose.

And let me be clear, if i didnt say it right in the 1st message, I do not have problems with the people, only the act. I love all people! :)

[Sage]

Being sterile or infertile is not a choice, (not counting vesectimies or having your tubes tied). So no I don't have problems with sterile/infertile people.

News flash chica, homosexuality is not a choice either. It's genetic.

[ShatteredGlass]

News flash chica, homosexuality is not a choice either. It's genetic.

No, homosexuality is a choice, my friend M, is lesbian, her mom's not, her dads not, her grandparents are not.

Some where in everyone's family tree someone was homosexual, and it;s a single isolated incident.

Saying homosexuality isnt a choice is a way for homosexuals to justify their actions.

Okay please explain why you all are so offended. I said i had a problem with the act, not the people. So...I'm drawing a blank here.

[dyslexiaa]

And what do you mean straight, christian, white people? I know white people who are gay, and are saying that other races arent religious?

That's all my town is. White, christian people. It's hard for them to be tolerant because they have no other cultural experience.

What do you mean, you like what you like? I get tired of hearing people talk about how being gay is not a choice. I admit for some people it isnt, like the people who have they're brains all funny, so that they have the mind of a guy and a body of a girl or vice versa, but not every gay person has that disease.

If you've had a lot of experience with gay people, you would know that it's definitely less a choice than being religious is.

[Sage]

Saying homosexuality isnt a choice is a way for homosexuals to justify their actions.

Okay please explain why you all are so offended. I said i had a problem with the act, not the people. So...I'm drawing a blank here.

Genetic does not mean passed down. There are countless studies that have been done that conclusively validate that people have no control over their sexual orientation.

People are offended because it's bigoted of you to be against something that people have no control over. It's not different from racism or sexism.

[Oblivion]

Genetic does not mean passed down. There are countless studies that have been done that conclusively validate that people have no control over their sexual orientation.

People are offended because it's bigoted of you to be against something that people have no control over. It's not different from racism or sexism.

Agreed.
Many subject-educated scientists have began to realize that homosexuality is not a choice, and just like race or sex or eye color or hair color, you shouldn't be discriminated against for it.

[ShatteredGlass]

Genetic does not mean passed down. There are countless studies that have been done that conclusively validate that people have no control over their sexual orientation.

People are offended because it's bigoted of you to be against something that people have no control over. It's not different from racism or sexism.

I'm sorry that i offeneded people. But if you're going to get offeneded every time someone disagrees with you then maybe ROTW is not right for you, or maybe you just shouldnt debate.

And it is different, because being racist or sexist is saying I don't like someone because they are black, or white, or asian etc... sexism is saying I dont like you because you are a chick or a dude.

I'm saying that I don't think practicing homosexuality is okay, but I have no problem with people who do.

That's all my town is. White, christian people. It's hard for them to be tolerant because they have no other cultural experience.

If you've had a lot of experience with gay people, you would know that it's definitely less a choice than being religious is.

Yes, w/o cultural exp. it is hard to understand ppl.

Lot of exp. w/ gay people? That's what I need to understand them, you say, and yes that does have some validity to it. However, I don't agree that sexual orientation is not a choice.

And I dont think practicing homosexuality is right.

And being religious can be hard because not standing for anything is easy and because it means you have to own up to your actions, (tho you can do that w/o being religious) and you must admit you're nothing w/o God.

[Sage]

And it is different, because being racist or sexist is saying I don't like someone because they are black, or white, or asian etc... sexism is saying I dont like you because you are a chick or a dude.

Ugh. You're just playing word games. Changing it from a noun (a homosexual person) to a verb (to practice homosexuality) does not change your view on the matter. You're being a bigot.

[Mannequin]

I think tolerance is improving, but it's definitely not enough.

[lamboman43]

I think tolerance is improving, but it's definitely not enough.

Exactly what i think. We still need to improve.

[AllThatIsLeft]

ShatteredGlass I am so sick of your narrowed minded bullshit. Because honestly that's what it is.
De-rep me for all i care. But you are going to hear a piece of my mind.

You might believe in your God above anything. But this is the 21st Century. STOP imposing your God and the Bible on the rest of us. We make our own choices. and oh how i hate people like you, who the only thing they do is try shove your beliefs down our throat, like you have the right to.

There is nothing wrong with being gay, it is not a choice. I have plenty of gay friends, and i know it wasn't a choice for them.
It is ridiculous to say someone deserves hell (if it existed) because of the people who they love. They are good people, most of them are more sensible than the rest of the idiotic narrow minded straight people.

If people choose to be physically close, besides reproduction, then let them be!
It is not your body, it doesn't affect you in any way. And saying you wish homosexuality didn't exist is a low and mean thing you as a "good"-God-believing person can say.

All you prove by saying your points, is that you are an ignorant narrow minded idiot, that should reconsider your beliefs, and maybe be a little more considerate.


on topic...
Though america is starting to be more tolerant, there is still a long way to go. And i am all for true Gay tolerance.

[Spunky]

Ok everyone is entitled to their own opinions and way of life. People that turned out to be gay had no say in their orientation. I have a pretty good guy friend who happens to be gay and one day I asked him, when you found out you like guys insted of girls was it a decision or was it like.... I didn't know how to put it and he told me I know what you re trying to ask. He told me like this, you know how you like girls and turned on by girls and it's just your instinct to like girls, well that's like me I like guys and it's some thing I have no opinion for, guys are what i'm attracted to. So I know gay people have really no say in what gender they like. Like my dad always tells me i dont care what you do or how you live your life, just leave me out of it. That goes for anything. And as for religion debate everyone has their own interpation. I read the bible and it's all how you interpatate it. Oh and to answer your question Lance, I think it's all where you are. For example I live on the most classy ("rich") part of town and I observed that most people are pretty acceptent of it but I've also been to the bad part and noticed that people their have a harder time accepting it and also will make fun of it. Also the small towns have a hard time accepting it vs the huge cities. ( not trying to offend or judge anyone who happens to live in a not so good area of town) I would have to say we are far off from gay people being accepted every where BUT America has also made a lot of progress in accepting gay people. Also you will always a double standard for men and women, for example a woman walks into a mans fitting room to give him some more clothes and it's ok but if a man steps into a women fitting room to give her something all hell breaks loose.

[Curthose93]

No, the US is not tolerant enough of homosexuality, and I can name one specific group who is to blame for that: devout religious nutjobs. Maybe some people want to take a 2,000+ year old book and blindly accept its author's opinions, but when it causes the oppression of individual rights, then it's a problem that seriously needs to be addessed. Seriously.

[Θάνατος]

I don't think the US is very tolerant with gay people but I think that Europe is way more acceptable where as places in Asia are even less tolerant to the fact that they could kill you for being gay.

[redcar]

Guys remember lets not get too personal with this, everyone is entitled to their opinion and you just have accept everyone doesn't think the same. I am delighted someone else is in this thread argueing the other side, so please be nice and not gang up. :)

That being said...
No, homosexuality is a choice, my friend M, is lesbian, her mom's not, her dads not, her grandparents are not.
... is where I have a problem. I don't care what your other opinions are because they are just that opinions, but this you are claiming as fact. Let me tell you there is not a single gay or lesbian person I know who would have picked to be that. To spend years of torture, and thats exactly what it is, torture, questioning why you are different. So do not ever claim that as fact again because it is an absolute ridiculous arguement and gives you zero credibility.

I'll debate with you on this till the cows come home but just dont talk shite.

[ShatteredGlass]

Homosexuality is wrong, period, and yes from a noun to a verb does change what I mean, so w.e., don't bother posting ne thing as a reply to this because I'm not coming back. The fact is VT is a waste of time and so is the post, talking about it isnt going to change ne thing, if you want something changed, do something dont just spend your whole day sitting in front of your computer whining about stuff. ROTW is hardly a place 4 debates more for arguments and arguing doesnt change ne thing.

I dont think the US or ne other place has to be tolerant of homosexuals at all because there shouldnt be ne, and you are not born homosexual, that's just an excuse.

[Antares]

Homosexuality is wrong, period, and yes from a noun to a verb does change what I mean, so w.e., don't bother posting ne thing as a reply to this because I'm not coming back. The fact is VT is a waste of time and so is the post, talking about it isnt going to change ne thing, if you want something changed, do something dont just spend your whole day sitting in front of your computer whining about stuff. ROTW is hardly a place 4 debates more for arguments and arguing doesnt change ne thing.

I dont think the US or ne other place has to be tolerant of homosexuals at all because there shouldnt be ne, and you are not born homosexual, that's just an excuse.

Well first I want to say, it's good that you are putting your opinion on here. You don't see that too much.

However, I disagree with you. Homosexuality is NOT a choice. I am not sure why you think it is...I am not sure why believe that people want to make themselves vulnerable to physical, mental, verbal, and other abuses.
I personally wouldn't and I don't think anyone would.
I think that VT is a stepping stone to acutally trying to change something however, the fact is, change is slow. Our generation won't be able to achieve full tolerance toward gays, the next generation I bet, but not ours. Especially people like you that still think that people choose to be homosexual.
Changing things is hard as a teenager that is still trying to discover themselves. So sitting here ranting, posting isn't exactly a waste of time. People on here do have lives, you just don't know them well enough.

ROTW is a place for debate and a debate is technically an organized argument and thats what has generally been happening, if you don't like it, don't post in it. I think that since the United States is the leader of the free world and also taking into consideration the fact that we represent sooo many walks of life, we are essential to having global tolerance toward gays.

Either way, people NEED to be tolerant of people that are different than them. That's just like saying we should ban you because you have some false assumption that homosexuality is a choice. However, we TOLERATE you and are conversing with you about it.

*gosh this is getting long*

In conclusion, homosexuality is NOT a choice because no one would choose to be a homosexual.

[Reality]

I voted Fairly tolerant but there is still some change needed!

Things like gay marriage are still at a small acceptance and value in much of the Western world. In North America, Europe and Australia many people still gay-bash, and dehumanize gay people - even without thinking what they're saying. "Gay" and "homo" are used as insults at the same level as "idiot" and such.

But on the lighter note, homosexuals are more accepted in society than they were.. say.. 50 years ago, and more people are becoming understanding and accepting of them.

Personally, I have absolutely nothing against homosexuality. I understand in most cases it's not a choice, but more of how a person is set out to be. I don't see how people can think they're in the position to judge either gays or their sexuality, because afterall, it's their own bodies and opinions, they should have the freedom to do what they like with them. :)

[chucknorrisrules]

In my area, there seems to be a high acceptance rate from teenagers. With this being said, I think that the time for homosexual and bisexual acceptance will soon hit it's peak and people will not have to endure such pain because of their sexuality.

On a personal note, I think that there's nothing wrong with being homo/bisexual. In my eyes, it's perfectly normal and shouldn't cause all the commotion that it does. I'd love to see my homo/bisexual friends be able to come out of the closet to all of their family without worrying about becoming the outcast...

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

The U.S. is far from tolerant. The government might be coming around but the large majority of citisens still despise us. Even if 75% of people were ok with us we'd still be doomed to depression and a long struggle because there is always that one ultra-religious f*g-hater who will tell everyone and ruin your life.

And Europe likes to pretend its more tolerant. But honestly, if you came out openly at school as a poofter you'd get beaten to shreds. Its just how it is.

[The Batman]

Homosexuality is wrong, period, and yes from a noun to a verb does change what I mean, so w.e., don't bother posting ne thing as a reply to this because I'm not coming back. The fact is VT is a waste of time and so is the post, talking about it isnt going to change ne thing, if you want something changed, do something dont just spend your whole day sitting in front of your computer whining about stuff. ROTW is hardly a place 4 debates more for arguments and arguing doesnt change ne thing.

I dont think the US or ne other place has to be tolerant of homosexuals at all because there shouldnt be ne, and you are not born homosexual, that's just an excuse.

This kind of thinking is what keeps us from being tolerant. It's what makes me dislike my religion and hate my sexuality.

[A.J.]

Until people stop giving the death penalty to gays in Africa and the Middle East, the world isn't tolerant enough. The U.S. needs to legalize gay marriage.

[INFERNO]

Oh, the contradictions and humour in this thread is astounding. Let's start with the star of the show (props for debating the other side).

I get tired of hearing people talk about how being gay is not a choice. I admit for some people it isnt, like the people who have they're brains all funny, so that they have the mind of a guy and a body of a girl or vice versa, but not every gay person has that disease.

No, homosexuality is a choice, my friend M, is lesbian, her mom's not, her dads not, her grandparents are not.

Bolded part: Contradiction#1: Statement that homosexuality is not a choice, but it also is a choice.


I don't have problems with sterile/infertile people.

Yes, I know homosexuals have always been around, and I dont agree with killing someone or persecuting someone because they're gay.

Contradiction#2: You go against homosexuality for many reasons, one being inability to reproduce, yet you don't mind sterile nor infertile people.

Contradiction#3: You don't wish to persecute homosexuals, yet you have no problem if they are harmed, in fact, you'd rather have them be harmed due to their orientation.


No, homosexuality is a choice, my friend M, is lesbian, her mom's not, her dads not, her grandparents are not.

Some where in everyone's family tree someone was homosexual, and it;s a single isolated incident.

Saying homosexuality isnt a choice is a way for homosexuals to justify their actions.

Okay please explain why you all are so offended. I said i had a problem with the act, not the people. So...I'm drawing a blank here.

Hmm, you say it's not a choice and it is then used to justify their actions, so what about for the person M who you admitted chose to be homosexual?

You can dislike what someone does but like that person IN THEORY. Practically, some of the dislike will creep into your perception of that person.

Problem is, if you are against the act, then why do you allow and even encourage them to be abused? It's the same as doing this: you beat up someone because they like the colour green. If you disliked green, that's fine, but if you harm them, then it seems likely you dislike them.

Genetic does not mean passed down. There are countless studies that have been done that conclusively validate that people have no control over their sexual orientation.

People are offended because it's bigoted of you to be against something that people have no control over. It's not different from racism or sexism.

I agree, it's not different from racism or sexism. I don't understand the person's argument on how they are different.

And now, a contradiction not from the popular person being debated.

Guys remember lets not get too personal with this, everyone is entitled to their opinion and you just have accept everyone doesn't think the same. I am delighted someone else is in this thread argueing the other side, so please be nice and not gang up. :)

So do not ever claim that as fact again because it is an absolute ridiculous arguement and gives you zero credibility.

I'll debate with you on this till the cows come home but just dont talk shite.

Contradiction #4: Bolded part: You want others to be nice, then begin demanding followed by saying that they are talking bullshit. But, you want others to be nice, and not to gang up on the same person.

[Axellance]

As Alex said "Let me tell you there is not a single gay or lesbian person I know who would have picked to be that" I am gay, and I completely hated myself for it for a long while all because i was a part of a Christan family who taught me that it was a choice and it is disgusting. I most definitely would not have chosen that, and i would not have chosen to be discriminated against for it for probably my whole life. There is a genetic component to it, it has been proven. i also do not beleive Alex contradicted himself, he is saying don't get nasty cause this person doesn't agree with you but it is not okay when people make up facts.

[Oblivion]

Hey ShatteredGlass... Think of your favorite food in the world.
Can you choose to not like it anymore?
No, you can't. There's a part of your brain that finds that food pleasing, and you can't choose to reverse it.

[Death]

I agree with you all. All of ShatteredGlass's views are just arrogant. I wouldn't go on about it thouugh. Just ignore him, that'll be best. In fact, it must be since he said he wasn't returning to this site.

EDIT: I couldn't help but to notice that ShatteredGlass was standing alone against several others in his arguement.

[Whisper]

all's fine and well until the zombies attack

1ZuK_wYrqp8&feature=channel_page

[redcar]

Contradiction #4: Bolded part: You want others to be nice, then begin demanding followed by saying that they are talking bullshit. But, you want others to be nice, and not to gang up on the same person.

Yes I do want others to be nice. The people I am referring to made posts that were rude and just not conducive to having a good debate.

If we are having a debate on this subject or anything really I think we should expect a certain standard, for example, a backed up arguement and not just statements like:
Homosexuality is wrong, period,...
And thats what I was referring to as the poster talking shite. The difference in what I did and what others did I attacked the posters idea and not the poster.

Please dont lecture me again.

[Shattered Soul]

I believe (as a hetrosexual) that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. People shouldn't make such a big thing about it being 'bad' or 'wrong', it is just a preference. Homosexual people prefer partners of the same sex, hetrosexuals prefer partners of the opposite sex. It shouldn't be as such a big deal as it is, if it wasn't such a big deal, it would be easier for people to accept their sexuality and homosexuals, hetrosexuals and bisexuals could live together in harmony. :)

[INFERNO]

Yes I do want others to be nice. The people I am referring to made posts that were rude and just not conducive to having a good debate.

If we are having a debate on this subject or anything really I think we should expect a certain standard, for example, a backed up arguement and not just statements like:

And thats what I was referring to as the poster talking shite. The difference in what I did and what others did I attacked the posters idea and not the poster.

Please dont lecture me again.

The issue was you said not to gang up (on the one poster) yet you still went ahead and did so anyways. You didn't do name-calling to the poster, and I never mentioned anything along those lines that you did. It does not matter if you attacked the poster or the poster's ideas, you ganged up on the same person regardless, that's the contradiction. Also, telling the person not to talk shit doesn't seem to be following what you wanted others to do, which is being nice. That, is the second contradiction.

This is not lecturing you, this is debating what you posted using as much objectivity as possible, although the overall debate calls for subjectivity.

I believe (as a hetrosexual) that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. People shouldn't make such a big thing about it being 'bad' or 'wrong', it is just a preference. Homosexual people prefer partners of the same sex, hetrosexuals prefer partners of the opposite sex. It shouldn't be as such a big deal as it is, if it wasn't such a big deal, it would be easier for people to accept their sexuality and homosexuals, hetrosexuals and bisexuals could live together in harmony. :)

This I agree with.

[Perseus]

America is not tolerated enough because(not to offened anyone at all) Christians take it all too seriously and don't take in the science part of how you are born that way.
I can almost guarntee in my grade, Im the only Christian who supports gay rights and knows stuff about science.
People just need to chill and accept everyone for who they are.

[INFERNO]

America is not tolerated enough because(not to offened anyone at all) Christians take it all too seriously and don't take in the science part of how you are born that way.
I can almost guarntee in my grade, Im the only Christian who supports gay rights and knows stuff about science.
People just need to chill and accept everyone for who they are.

Sadly, the minority of Christians, at least the ones I've encountered both online and in real-life, tend to be biased towards their faith and reject most of science. I have several Christian friends in university who are studying biology or another branch of science, so the two can very co-exist. It only becomes problematic when one tries to analyze religion using science or analyze science using religion. The two are philosophically different, they are aimed in different directions and so, trying to combine them for something will inevitably lead to chaos. You can have them both but analyze religion using religion and science using science.

When a country, such as the USA is founded upon Christian forefathers, and the currency has "In God we trust", then there's a decent chance that many citizens may be biased. But the USA needs considerable improvement in their tolerance, as does the world in general.

[redcar]

The issue was you said not to gang up (on the one poster) yet you still went ahead and did so anyways. You didn't do name-calling to the poster, and I never mentioned anything along those lines that you did. It does not matter if you attacked the poster or the poster's ideas, you ganged up on the same person regardless, that's the contradiction. Also, telling the person not to talk shit doesn't seem to be following what you wanted others to do, which is being nice. That, is the second contradiction.

This is not lecturing you, this is debating what you posted using as much objectivity as possible, although the overall debate calls for subjectivity.

Have you ever actually engaged in a proper debate? I am not talking about a debate with a friend in passing, I am talking about a real debate. Let me tell you about real debates, if you can not back up your arguement using some sort of credible reference your arguement doesn't exist and your point is and null and void.

Trust me I was being nice. In the real world your own arguement and point is totally irrelavent and people will laugh you out of the room unless you can back it up. As soon as the poster comes back with some nice backed up arguements I will happily have a good debate.

Until then you can continue on till the cows come home going on about what a bad bad person I am. :)

[INFERNO]

Have you ever actually engaged in a proper debate? I am not talking about a debate with a friend in passing, I am talking about a real debate. Let me tell you about real debates, if you can not back up your arguement using some sort of credible reference your arguement doesn't exist and your point is and null and void.

Trust me I was being nice. In the real world your own arguement and point is totally irrelavent and people will laugh you out of the room unless you can back it up. As soon as the poster comes back with some nice backed up arguements I will happily have a good debate.

Until then you can continue on till the cows come home going on about what a bad bad person I am. :)

Yes, I have engaged in a proper debate both online and in the real world.

[rainebg]

No, homosexuality is a choice, my friend M, is lesbian, her mom's not, her dads not, her grandparents are not.

Some where in everyone's family tree someone was homosexual, and it;s a single isolated incident.

Saying homosexuality isnt a choice is a way for homosexuals to justify their actions.

Okay please explain why you all are so offended. I said i had a problem with the act, not the people. So...I'm drawing a blank here.

Okay, why would I choose to have all of this hate directed at me for no good reason other than the fact that some men wrote it in a book a couple of thousands of years ago. A book in which i don't believe. So no it certainly is NOT a choice. Answer this-Why would i or any other gay person choose to be hated?

[Death]

I agree with you rainebg. He's making no sense and it's pretty obvious why he's offending people. If he thinks that homosexuality is perfectly controllable and unnaceptable, let him warp his own corrupt mind; people like that just don't listen. I still agree with you of course!

[youngbrown7]

i think America is getting better.

i don't care what u are if your a good person then your fine with me.

[INFERNO]

i think America is getting better.

i don't care what u are if your a good person then your fine with me.

Why do you think America is getting better?

[MykeSoBe]

Being homosexual is not right and it's nothing to be proud of. If we were meant to procreate with the same sex then we would have been able to do so, but hey, we can't.

Where I think that mistreating people because they are gay is wrong, and I do not agree with it because you dont see gay people mistreating straight people because they're straight.

I dont think that "gay bashing" is right, though I also wish that we could go back to the time when "gay" meant happy, and I wish that no one was so.

Finally, one who has a religion, like me! But, if someone is interested in someone of the same sex, just let them be. It should have no effect on whether you like them as a friend or not. If it was up to me, I would not allow gay / lesbian marriages, but I like gay / lesbian people as a friend just the same as regular people.

[Zazu]

@ ShatteredGlass, so much of what you say contradicts itself. I think you are a narrow minded biggot who is so stuck with Christianity you refuse to see it from anyone else's point of view, you think you are right and if anyone says anything different you just quote your religion at them and still say that you are right.

Saying that, as other people do, I respect you for airing your opinions like you have. It's rare that you get people who have the balls to stick their necks out and battle for what they think.

But still I think quite a lot of what you say is bullshit.

You say that if we were meant to be able to procreate with the same sex then we would be able to. We can't procreate with the same sex anyway, the last I knew a man could not concieve a baby inside himself. The aim of sexual interaction between two men is not to procreate, but to have sexual contact. If two men have sex because they are trying to create a baby (procreation = freely creating new life) then they must be somewhat deluded to realise that nether of them have wombs. I don't think men do think this, do you? Ergo your point is not valid imo, you're just stating the obvious, men can't procreate, but this is not their intention anyway.


I dont have problems with the people themselves, I have a problem with the act.Being homosexual is not just about 'the act'. Homosexuals are not so shallow and morally inept that they only thing they value about their relationship is the sex. Funnily enough, having a relationship with another man is mainly about the feelings and emtions between the two.


You also seem to be quite adament throughout all of your arguments that being a homosexual is a choice. I feel very strongly that it is not a choice for most people. All the people I know who are homosexual / bi have gone through hell because of their sexuality, why would anyone choose this? People don't normally tend to inflict pain and humiliation on themselves through free choice.
I can guarentee you that I did not choose to be bisexual. Purely from my sexual choice, I have become hated by many people in my old school. It wrecked just about every friendship that I had with people. It caused me hell. It caused me so much internal confusion. I actively attempted to commit suicide because of it numerous times. I had to leave my old school because of the bullying I got because of it. I didnt fucking choose this all to happen.


Quoting the Bible at us will do nothing to the majority of people on here. I do not belive in or practice Christianity ergo the Bible means nothing to me. If I write "Rabbits are actually eveil sheep in disguise" on a piece of paper, then show it to you, does it make what I've written true or valid? Would I use this in an argument against you? No I wouldn't, because it would mean nothing to you as the Bible means sod all to me.


You seem to still thinkthat what you say is fact, even though you say that you are giving your opinion. Look at the following quote from you:

Homosexuality is wrong, periodYou are so bloody narrow minded. You are such a bigot. You're basically saying there that you are right and everyone else is wrong. You're trying to impose your views as facts. Don't. It makes you look like an idiot.


Some where in everyone's family tree someone was homosexual, and it;s a single isolated incident.

Saying homosexuality isnt a choice is a way for homosexuals to justify their actions.

Okay please explain why you all are so offended. I said i had a problem with the act, not the people. So...I'm drawing a blank here.Peoples' characteristics, their personalities, the choices they make in life (i.e. their sexuality) are mainly decided by their genetics. In layman's terms, a gene is formed by combining alleles. Alleles are small bits of genetic information. Alleles can either be dominant or recessive. The process of an allele being either dominant or recessive is a relatively random process. Say that you're great-great grandparents had 'a bit of homosexuality' in their DNA which was presented via a dominant allele, this allele may not proceed to be domiant in their childrens' DNA. And in the next generation, again the 'homosexal' allele may not be dominant in their kids' DNA. But in the next, it might become a dominant allele again, and those children could turn out to be homosexual.
My point here is that parts of genes can skip generations. It's not straightforward.



I do still respect how you have aired your opinios, ShatteredGlass, but I still find them to be invalid and I find you to be a bigot.

Sorry to come across sounding like a right arse, but I just feel strongly about all of this.

[Reality]

Finally, one who has a religion, like me! But, if someone is interested in someone of the same sex, just let them be. It should have no effect on whether you like them as a friend or not. If it was up to me, I would not allow gay / lesbian marriages, but I like gay / lesbian people as a friend just the same as regular people.
Why not? If you like gays and lesbians as much as "regular" people, then why should they not be able to get married?

I think if two people want to be legally bonded together, then they should be allowed to regardless of their sex.
Marriage as in the religious ceremony is another issue, as some religions do not agree with homosexuality/bisexuality.

I do still respect how you have aired your opinios, ShatteredGlass, but I still find them to be invalid and I find you to be a bigot.

Sorry to come across sounding like a right arse, but I just feel strongly about all of this.
Debate the debate, not the person in the debate, please. We don't need this to be a fight.

[Death]

Homosexuality is wrong,

&&

I dont think the US or ne other place has to be tolerant of homosexuals at all because there shouldnt be ne, and you are not born homosexual, that's just an excuse

ShatteredGlass: Your attitude pisses me (and many others) off and yet I don't think you fully realise it. :P

Chequ3r: That was very well said! Unfortunately, there's an annoying quote from ShatteredGlass herself:

don't bother posting ne thing as a reply to this because I'm not coming back.

If she were to just see the responses... :(

[Ladysman]

Being homosexual is not right and it's nothing to be proud of. If we were meant to procreate with the same sex then we would have been able to do so, but hey, we can't.

Where I think that mistreating people because they are gay is wrong, and I do not agree with it because you dont see gay people mistreating straight people because they're straight.

I dont think that "gay bashing" is right, though I also wish that we could go back to the time when "gay" meant happy, and I wish that no one was so.

Dude im bi there is nothing wrong with being gay or bi or lesbian or watever this is the USA!!!! Freedom liberty watever happened to that dude be wat u r god made u like u r for a reason

[mr.sexy_bomb]

i think people still need to be more accepting, but you know how some people say no one would choose to be gay, well i do, i love beeing gay and its awesome, i wouldnt wanna change it for any thing, because i love who i am, and what i am and i wouldnt change any thing about myself :D

[INFERNO]

Dude im bi there is nothing wrong with being gay or bi or lesbian or watever this is the USA!!!! Freedom liberty watever happened to that dude be wat u r god made u like u r for a reason
Could you type coherently next time? I managed to, or at least think I managed to understand your babble.

[Death]

Incoherant writing can be annoying but it isn't exactly what I'd call 'babble' (although I agree with absolutely everything else you've said on this topic). Anyway, I think that the world still has some changing to do when it comes to being tolerant and there is still some nasty and illogical discrimination against gays (ShatteredGlass being a shining example of said evil) which needs to be changed. I think we're getting better though.

[INFERNO]

I think that the world still has some changing to do when it comes to being tolerant and there is still some nasty and illogical discrimination against gays (ShatteredGlass being a shining example of said evil) which needs to be changed. I think we're getting better though.

I do agree with this, however, there is one very large question to answer, one that is also exceedingly hard to put into practice: HOW do you make the intolerant people become more tolerant? If they believe through whatever set of beliefs that homosexuals are "evil" or whatnot, then is it really right for us to go about and tell them to be more tolerant simply because we disagree with the intolerance? On one hand, yes, it'd be nice if the world was more tolerant but on the other hand, should we make the intolerant more tolerant, do we have that right? If we allow freedom of speech, then shouldn't we allow the verbal intolerance also?

[Sage]

I do agree with this, however, there is one very large question to answer, one that is also exceedingly hard to put into practice: HOW do you make the intolerant people become more tolerant? If they believe through whatever set of beliefs that homosexuals are "evil" or whatnot, then is it really right for us to go about and tell them to be more tolerant simply because we disagree with the intolerance? On one hand, yes, it'd be nice if the world was more tolerant but on the other hand, should we make the intolerant more tolerant, do we have that right? If we allow freedom of speech, then shouldn't we allow the verbal intolerance also?

Personally, I've always believed that it is not intolerant to intolerate intolerance. But that's just my two cents.

[goin to work]

most people that are intolerant are bible beaters or are homophobic america has gotten way better but its still got a long way to go the bible beaters and homophobs will olney change if a person close to them ends up being gay

[nachtspiegel]

Fuck tolerance. Acceptance.

[The Batman]

most people that are intolerant are bible beaters or are homophobic america has gotten way better but its still got a long way to go the bible beaters and homophobs will olney change if a person close to them ends up being gay

It's more than just them that are intolerant it's people that can't accept that fact that their are differences in the world.

[INFERNO]

Personally, I've always believed that it is not intolerant to intolerate intolerance. But that's just my two cents.

But that is simply being intolerant towards their beliefs in order to counteract their intolerance towards your beliefs. It then would make little sense if you wish for them to be tolerant... . That's the thing that I find to be rather curious.

[MykeSoBe]

Now I've changed my opinion on homosexuality. Though I am not homosexual in any way or form (I am 100% straight), I am perfectly fine with socializing with people of the orientation, and I do believe they should be allowed an everlasting marriage along with every right a straight person has. I am not trying to contradict religion, but I believe that a true Roman Catholic like me would have nothing against letting gay or lesbian people flourish. If we've given rights to women and African-Americans, why can't we give rights to homosexual people? For all I know, scientifically speaking, the first humans could've possibly even been homosexual (of course not knowing and not caring that they were being so): imagine a scenario like that -- a male probably tried to "connect" with another male and found out that nothing happened, then they moved on to the females, and found the desired result. (I am not sure of this, please do not criticize me, I'm only trying to side with science)

[Death]

Now I've changed my opinion on homosexuality. Though I am not homosexual in any way or form (I am 100% straight), I am perfectly fine with socializing with people of the orientation, and I do believe they should be allowed an everlasting marriage along with every right a straight person has.

I agree; only the intolerant would believe that they should have less rights.

For all I know, scientifically speaking, the first humans could've possibly even been homosexual (of course not knowing and not caring that they were being so): imagine a scenario like that -- a male probably tried to "connect" with another male and found out that nothing happened, then they moved on to the females, and found the desired result.

Instinctively, this would not have happened. It wouldn't happen with us now so why then? Mating is an instinct so, instinctively, they would have gone straight to the females when they could.

[redcar]

Now I've changed my opinion on homosexuality. Though I am not homosexual in any way or form (I am 100% straight), I am perfectly fine with socializing with people of the orientation, and I do believe they should be allowed an everlasting marriage along with every right a straight person has. I am not trying to contradict religion, but I believe that a true Roman Catholic like me would have nothing against letting gay or lesbian people flourish.
I find this post very strange in that you say one thing but the way you write it doesn't seem like you are comfortable saying it.

Phrases like "...socialising with people of the orientation,..." just don't sit well with me, it's like it's put on. I am open to correction here but I just find it a very strange post.

[MykeSoBe]

I find this post very strange in that you say one thing but the way you write it doesn't seem like you are comfortable saying it.

Phrases like "...socialising with people of the orientation,..." just don't sit well with me, it's like it's put on. I am open to correction here but I just find it a very strange post.

Well for one I've never had anything against gay / lesbian people. It's been my opinion on whether they should marry which I've had a bit of trouble deciding on. I probably didn't use the right phrases but please get my point across: I now have no problem with homosexual marriages and I've never had anything against them. I just hope that no one got the wrong message!

[INFERNO]

I agree; only the intolerant would believe that they should have less rights.

I assume you mean INtolerant, unless I completely misread it.

I now have no problem with homosexual marriages and I've never had anything against them

bold part: That would be a contradiction:

If it was up to me, I would not allow gay / lesbian marriages

When someone says or indicates that they support gay rights, they like homosexuals, all that fun-loving stuff, yet they disallow gay marriages, that seems rather unusual. Regardless of what someone's height, weight, skin colour, gender, orientation, etc... is, as a human, they get human rights. Depriving them of marriage, at least in the Western society, violates the idea that humans deserve equal rights. So, in a way, you become against gay rights, or perhaps it's the idea of "I support gay rights but not all of it, only certain parts", as in doing so, you're against the other parts.

As for the laws concerning this being based on religion, I find that ridiculous. For starters, laws are meant to be objective and interpreted objectively. It's not meant to be "Oh, you're Asian, well that parking violating doesn't apply then". If it were based on religion, then be fair, promote equalness and disallow things that other religions dictate, such as not eating pork, make that to not eat pork in public. As silly as that is, it makes it fair as each religion has a say in at least one law.

[guacamole24]

The fact that people constantly insist that homosexuality is a choice gets on my nerves.
If people CHOSE to be gay, why would they even go through with the gay bashing and intolerance? If people chose to be gay, would they even choose that in the first place, when faced with the fact that they would have to go through all the junk that they get BECAUSE people think its a CHOICE? Something tells me a lot of people wouldn't.

[soggytoast]

save the gays burn the christians.


this is the opinion of a straight atheiest, gay people never go forcing their veiws on others....how many gay held protests do you see where they walk around with signs saying "christians are wrong" ect.

given the choice to rid the world of all christians (or any religion that forces their veiws onto others like that) or get rid of gay people. bye bye religious folks.

[Zero Beat]

Me, only have read the 1st page of comments have come to this (me gay and happy btw)

How many gay guys would be like that? at a bar? like i wouldnt...
There isnt enough tolerance anywhere yet. And i think its gonna take a long time for people to change. many many years of "non liking of gay ppl" has been inbeded into people, there many many many people. Long time...

[sebbie]

I think a key factor which sways many peoples tolerance towards homosexual people is to do with how they express themselves. As homosexuality is a minority compared to hetrosexualtiy, when gay pride festivals are held or gay events people are intimidated by it.

A lot of heterosexual people feel that homosexuals are "blatantly" expressing it, almost rubbing it in that they are gay, which can lead to people being intolerant towards it.

[goin to work]

[QUOTE=soggytoast;531579]save the gays burn the christians.


you allmost had it right its save the gays burn the asshole christians that say they love every one yet they hate gays jews ec people that do this type of thing need to be taken care of becuse they are verry stupid

[sebbie]

save the gays burn the christians.


you allmost had it right its save the gays burn the asshole christians that say they love every one yet they hate gays jews ec people that do this type of thing need to be taken care of becuse they are verry stupid

Tolerance between religion and issues like homosexualtiy is a touchy subject. If you think from the religion perspective

Religion - Homosexualtiy is deemed a sin, thus is wrong and should be condemned, how they go about doing this will vary from how extreme beliefs are or the exact religious teaching. When it comes to religious tolerance between religions you need to bare in mind. Each religion will believe the other is wrong.

I think to say that they are stupid id wrong, to say that they are narrow minded however is a different matter.

[goin to work]

most say good loves every one then why dont they think he loves gay people there all wrong and they all think thair right and i bogles my mind how they all cant be tolrent

[sebbie]

most say good loves every one then why dont they think he loves gay people there all wrong and they all think thair right and i bogles my mind how they all cant be tolrent

Yes most religions do say that God loves everyone, however they also agree that although God loves people He does not have to love everything we do.The cannot be tolerance when views as extreme as religion influence it.

[INFERNO]

most say good loves every one then why dont they think he loves gay people there all wrong and they all think thair right and i bogles my mind how they all cant be tolrent

You misunderstand, God loves everyone as a person but what they do he does not always love. Hence, he would love a person who was a mass murderer but not the fact that he mass murdered. It's basically viewing the person and their actions as two (or more) separate entities. In the end at death, whether you go to god (yay) or hell (boo/yay) is determined by your actions that you did. At that time, I'm not sure if it's still him judging your actions yet you pay or if he judges you and the actions together.