Religon Section

[shadow_moses]

I think there should be a section put in about relgion, cause i definately see that as a very confusing aspect of growing up not knowing what to believe, let alone understanding your own beliefs.

[IAMWILL]

Well in ROTW aka Rambling Of The Wise there is always lots of talk about religion. And anyway, there isn't much demand for a religion section.

[theOperaGhost]

Religion is a very heated topic and I just don't see it turning out very well. Most threads would turn into full fledged arguments in no time. I think keeping it in ROTW is the best option. We do have a sticky about religion here (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7985) that you can make posts in about religion.

[Antares]

Umm.
I HIGHLY doubt there will EVER be a whole forum dedicated to religion. There are social groups and threads related to it. Also, your blog is your dominion so you get your...praise out of your system there :P
Otherwise, ya, thats about it

[The Batman]

I'm sorta on the fence with this one. If it was just a place to ask about religious beliefs then that would work, but it would have to be heavily moderated and it might be more trouble than it's worth.

[Oblivion]

I don't think it would be overly active. As of now there are 2, maybe three threads for religion, no where near enough to satisfy a forum.

[Underground_Network]

Every time a thread starts on religion, no matter how harmless it is intended to be, it turns into a debate... Might as well just put all religion threads in ROTW [Ramblings of the Wise]. There's really no need for an entire section on it... If its a debate, put it in ROTW. If its just something about religion, put it in TWPR [The White Padded Room] or a/your diary.

[Skittle Flavored]

As religious as i am, i agree. And it also ties into the personal maturity of posters. Example: I can see someone post about a paragraph of something religious, and the thread closes because another poster spams and blams the thing to high heaven*No pun intended*

[Bobby]

We had a diary started about religion a while ago, and it only created animosity.

[Sugaree]

I couldn't see this becoming it's own forum. We have a thread in Ramblings of the Wise (the debate forum) about religion and different beliefs. I can't see this subject becoming a full forum because it would cause too much fighting and infractions would be handed out and even some bannings.

Religion is a very heated subject on this forum. Roger Rabbit would be wise to stay out of Mr. McGregor's garden. Just remember that.

[Maverick]

I think it would be pretty cool.

[theOperaGhost]

I think it would be pretty cool.

Really?

I know this has been brought up in suggestions before and it was turned down. It would have to be heavily moderated in my opinion, because nearly every religious debate turns into bashing and fighting, usually against Christians, which is quite discouraging. Moderators of it would NOT have to choose a specific side of these topics either, because that could lead to misjudgment and inappropriate modding. I have been on both sides...I used to be religious and am now close to atheist however nothing pisses me off more than bashing of religious people or religious people trying to convert atheists or people of different religions.

I can't say if I'm for or against this idea or not, but mostly against.

[Truth]

It would all end up in blind people fighting with eachother. I wouldnt even look at the section, and i'm christian >.>.

[Mzor203]

Multiple things to say on this.

First off, there's drastic potential for problems here. If something of this extent were created, it would have to have a VERY strict ground of rules. Many, many posters on this site would see it and come there only to debate what other people posted. Even if people offered 'help', that help would mostly be extremely biased. Atheists obviously wouldn't give a ton of good advice on holding on to your faith through your teenage years, for example. They would probably try to seem like they were giving 'advice', but find some way to get their religious ideas into other peoples' heads.

This could be very dangerous because of that. It would put some very vulnerable people in a position where others can easily put ideas into their heads, and influence them in ways they wouldn't otherwise be influenced. It's okay in ROTW because it's a forum made solely for debate, and those that come there are generally well-prepared to stand their ground.

Really, the only way I see it working out as an advice forum would be to have it be a strictly no-debate zone, and possibly even make it so that only a few specific peope (moderators) could post. Religion is such a dangerous and sensitive topic when someone is unsure or unstable, that we wouldn't want to have anybody be able to take advantage of the uncertainty of the advice-seekers in that forum.

Thus, the only way I see this working out is as an extension to ROTW, which would provide a few benefits, mainy that people would keep the religion topics in one area where they are easily avoidable, and it makes it so posts don't have to keep being merged into the religion sticky. Now, in this case I would say sub-forum (Yes, I know I always drive for sub-forums, but it would make sense).

Now I know that a debate-type religious forum may not have been what the OP intended, but that is my view on it, and I think it is something that needs to be handled and thought through very gingerly, and with incredible care.

[Camazotz]

We have a Religion Sticky in the ROTW. Religious threads will only end in debate, so I think it's best to be left as is.

[Maverick]

I understand people's concerns and I think they are valid ones. This has been suggested many times I've been active here and has been shot down for the same reasons. At the same time though VT continues to grow and I'm always open to adding new topics to attract new kids of members. More people = more religious diversity = more topics and discussion.

There would be a risk should one be created, but sometimes things are worth giving a shot, and if it doesn't work or goes wrong it can be taken away. Probably a minority opinion though.

[The Batman]

I say we go for it and whatever happens happens.

[theOperaGhost]

I understand people's concerns and I think they are valid ones. This has been suggested many times I've been active here and has been shot down for the same reasons. At the same time though VT continues to grow and I'm always open to adding new topics to attract new kids of members. More people = more religious diversity = more topics and discussion.

There would be a risk should one be created, but sometimes things are worth giving a shot, and if it doesn't work or goes wrong it can be taken away. Probably a minority opinion though.

I guess it is worth a shot.

[Oblivion]

Just to let you all know, Ant agreed to make a diary to start off.
Click (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=238)
PS- I'm still setting it up.

[The Batman]

A diary set up just for religious debate is not what a religious forum should be for. If that was the case then there shouldn't be one at all and all the threads could go to the ROTW. A religious forum should be one about respectfully talking about the different viewpoints and discussing your personal stories and issues(not the issues you have against it just the ones you have about your religion). A religious forum would be a place where Christians, Islamics, jews, atheist, Buddhist, or any other religion could talk to each other about how they feel about their own religion not what they hate about the other. If a religion forum is going to be about debating it then I am against this idea and any future ideas supporting it.

[Oblivion]

Well, I really don't see a religious forum just for respectful stories, especially since it would end up not being respectful.
You can though post in the diary and simply state you don't want to debate, only share stories.

[theOperaGhost]

I think it should be more like the Christianity social group. There are religious people on this site that might want to talk about their religion without debating it. I'm quite good friends with a few of them. There is no reason for it to be a religious debate forum.

[Oblivion]

What else is there to do with religion?
I suppose you could discuss it, but how far would it go without turning into a debate?
Not very.

What's the point of a religion forum other than debate? I'm not really understanding. Like talking about different prayers etc?
You could do that as well; again just make your own thread and state that you don't want to debate.

[The Batman]

I don't see a religious forum just for debates. A Religious forum should just be for discussing your beliefs, and posting questions about other ones. But debating rather it's real or not??? Come on that is just stupid IMO.

[Oblivion]

Like talking about different prayers etc?
You could do that as well; again just make your own thread and state that you don't want to debate.

Ok, you can do that as well.
If you still don't like it, the forum is still just a diary, not a full forum. It's not set in stone.

[theOperaGhost]

What else is there to do with religion?
I suppose you could discuss it, but how far would it go without turning into a debate?
Not very.

What's the point of a religion forum other than debate? I'm not really understanding. Like talking about different prayers etc?
You could do that as well; again just make your own thread and state that you don't want to debate.

Have you ever checked out the Christian social group? Religion is NOT just one big debate. Everyone turns it into one (especially atheists) which I think is unfair to theists. There is nothing wrong with being religious yet they are often attacked for it. This forum is just going to make that worse. I think this should just be a bigger version of the social group to be honest. I'm not liking the idea of a forum dedicated to religious debate.

[Oblivion]

Have you ever checked out the Christian social group? Religion is NOT just one big debate. Everyone turns it into one (especially atheists) which I think is unfair to theists. There is nothing wrong with being religious yet they are often attacked for it. This forum is just going to make that worse. I think this should just be a bigger version of the social group to be honest. I'm not liking the idea of a forum dedicated to religious debate.

The difference:
A social group discussion is much smaller than a forum
The social group discussion has one side, with no other input. Debate is impossible with all the same beliefs. I'm sure if a bunch of Atheists joined and started inputting, it would become a battle.

And again, you can specify to not debate! I even added it into the rules.
If a thread specifically asks for there to be no debate, any provocative posts in said thread will be deleted without warning or notice. Please respect their decisions to talk about religion, and not debate about it.

[theOperaGhost]

I don't think you should have to specify not to debate though. Debates belong in ROTW. I don't think you are seeing that religion is always a debate. There are MANY aspects to religion that involve NO debate whatsoever. Some people are just curious about different religions. Some people want to talk about their religion with other people of the same religion.

I do NOT like the idea of a separate debate forum for religion.

[Maverick]

Discussion and debate can co-exist. No one should have to specify because it will be a discussion or debate based off the nature of the question or topic.

If there's a topic 'Did God create the universe?" Its obvious its a debatable topic and will be a debate.

On the other hand, if there's a thread 'Can someone explain to me what the trinity is in Christianity?" based off the question it will be a discussion because its not asking anything to be debated, just discussed and explained.

There's no possible way a forum for religion can be discussion only. The forum does not have to be pure debate, but asking it to be pure discussion just isn't reality. I think both can co-exist but if it can't be tolerated then it shouldn't happen.

[Oblivion]

Discussion and debate can co-exist. No one should have to specify because it will be a discussion or debate based off the nature of the question or topic.

If there's a topic 'Did God create the universe?" Its obvious its a debatable topic and will be a debate.

On the other hand, if there's a thread 'Can someone explain to me what the trinity is in Christianity?" based off the question it will be a discussion because its not asking anything to be debated, just discussed and explained.

There's no possible way a forum for religion can be discussion only. The forum does not have to be pure debate, but asking it to be pure discussion just isn't reality. I think both can co-exist but if it can't be tolerated then it shouldn't happen.

Sounds great!
Amended the rules, suggestions welcome.
I suppose I really didn't think about it, but one of the first threads I made in the forum was exactly what you guys were talking about. :rolleyes:
It's not a debate, just discussion.

[The Batman]

I can understand having discussion and debate but to me the whole diary is centered around debate since it's in the description and all the stickied threads. I just think that if there is a religious forum it should be more centered around discussion than debate.

[Oblivion]

Well, it's really still just a diary.
I really don't think a discussion based religious forum would make it as a forum, much less a diary.

[Atonement]

I think that the forum needs to be very strictly, as in, like, no leniency to any insult or joking of someone religion because its just as bad as homophboia which we don't tolerate either. I'm sure, athiests and people that oppose certain religions can talk about them respectfully and because its a touchy subject, I think that there needs to be a lot of moderation to make sure no joking or jest of the matter.

[The Batman]

Well, it's really still just a diary.
I really don't think a discussion based religious forum would make it as a forum, much less a diary.

But a debate based religious forum won't make much of a forum either. I'm not saying their shouldn't be any debates at all I'm just saying it shouldn't be the main focus of it. The forum should be there to more educate people about religion instead of having them argue about their different viewpoints on them all the time.

[Oblivion]

But a debate based religious forum won't make much of a forum either. I'm not saying their shouldn't be any debates at all I'm just saying it shouldn't be the main focus of it. The forum should be there to more educate people about religion instead of having them argue about their different viewpoints on them all the time.

True, but really, do you expect it to be very active? No.
Would a forum dedicated to both, although leaning towards debate work? Yes. It would be active and informative.

[The Batman]

A religious debate forum won't do anything but piss off a lot of people. ROTW is for debate so what's the use of having a religious debate forum?

[Oblivion]

What's the point of all the sub forums to Mental Illnesses? To specifically talk about a huge part of mental illnesses.
And if someone is pissed off, they can either ignore it, don't come to the forum, or report whatever post pissed them off. If it's a valid/considerate post, then there isn't really much you can do.
ROTW pisses people off daily, I would guess. But debate is like that.
So I assume you are against debate in general?

[The Batman]

I did not say I'm against debate I said I'm against having a religious forum based on debate. Having subforums in the mental illness forum is about the types of mental illness. There can be subforums about the different types of debate if you want though, but leave religion out of it if you ask me. Seriously though and I think whoever runs a debate forum shouldn't be biased at all.

[Oblivion]

...And the owner should have no religion? Then they would be biased, as Atheists.
It's impossible to not be biased, especially with religion. Either way, I should hope that you know I'm not biased when it comes to kindness, courtesy, and what's OK to post. I'll post my own debates against religions, but that doesn't affect how I moderate the forum whatsoever.

Why leave religion out? It's one of the hottest debate topics, and only gets nasty when it's aloud to get nasty.

[The Batman]

I'm going to sum up everything I've been trying to say. A religious forum shouldn't be centered around debating religion it should be more focused on educating and discussing and if they debate then they can debate but it's not the main focus of it. When I said that they shouldn't be biased I wasn't talking about being religious or non religious I was talking about they shouldn't be closed minded or so far to one side of the religious spectrum that anything they hear we'll be seen as garbage.

[Antares]

I say, how about we give the religious people their space to...praise and the people that don't believe in a religion just stay out.

I will personally make a non-religious diary if needed, to represent everyone.

There should not be any debating in the religion diary.

[Oblivion]

I'm going to sum up everything I've been trying to say. A religious forum shouldn't be centered around debating religion it should be more focused on educating and discussing and if they debate then they can debate but it's not the main focus of it. When I said that they shouldn't be biased I wasn't talking about being religious or non religious I was talking about they shouldn't be closed minded or so far to one side of the religious spectrum that anything they hear we'll be seen as garbage.

Most anyone that is religious (or lack there of) will be somewhat close minded, and obviously if you don't believe something, it is garbage to you. Plus, if the above was possible, the person wouldn't even be very active in the debating, which would be weird for the owner of that forum. So, instead, the point should be whether or not said person can distinguish respectful debate, and non respectful debate. For that you don't need to be unbiased on the religious scale, just able to read the rules, and interpret them fairly (and unbiasedly on the rules scale). And, like I said before, that you haven't responded to, is that a forum mainly centered around religious discussion will fail. There are possible threads and posts that can be thought up, but honestly, it will not go far.

[The Batman]

Nick you are completely the type of bias that shouldn't run a Religion forum. I did not say that the forum should only have discussion i said that it should be more centered on discussions and they could have a few debates if they want to. A fucking religious debate forum will die considering the only threads in their are the ones you made.

[Mzor203]

Just find a mod of each major religion? Then it would be evened out.

[Oblivion]

Most anyone that is religious (or lack there of) will be somewhat close minded, and obviously if you don't believe something, it is garbage to you. Plus, if the above was possible, the person wouldn't even be very active in the debating, which would be weird for the owner of that forum. So, instead, the point should be whether or not said person can distinguish respectful debate, and non respectful debate. For that you don't need to be unbiased on the religious scale, just able to read the rules, and interpret them fairly (and unbiasedly on the rules scale). And, like I said before, that you haven't responded to, is that a forum mainly centered around religious discussion will fail. There are possible threads and posts that can be thought up, but honestly, it will not go far.

Just to be clear: It was brought to my attention Most anyone that is religious (or lack there of) will be somewhat close minded, and obviously if you don't believe something, it is garbage to you.
was misunderstood. I was told that I shouldn't generalize religious people as close minded- I did not however. I specifically pointed out "or lack there of", which suggests anyone is close minded to some extent. I also added "Somewhat" which means anywhere from little to very close minded.

Just find a mod of each major religion? Then it would be evened out.

That actually was my plan. I had no intention of solely running the forum. It would be hard and quite unfair.

[IAMWILL]

The ultimate downfall of this idea: a thread about creating a religion section to prevent arguing about religion has turned into an argument about religion.

[SapphireDragon13]

I think there should be a section put in about relgion, cause i definately see that as a very confusing aspect of growing up not knowing what to believe, let alone understanding your own beliefs.

I think that this would be a good idea, because there are lots of people who don't openly talk about their religion, and many of them would probably be more comfortable about talking about it if religion had its own section on VT, especially if they could see that others were accepting of their beliefs, as well... Does anyone else agree with me?

~Jenelle