Climate change/Global Warming

[Perseus]

All righty y'all, here is a thread(obviously)about whether global warning actually exists...

OK, my opinion: I think that is not actually real because 1.)the Earth's climate goes in cycle, and 2.) I live in the South, and meteorologists and other people said since of global warming, there will be even stronger hurricanes than Hurricane Kartrina. Well, there has not been a stornger hurricane than Hurricane Katrina yet.
And, another reason is, if the world is getting much warmer, why does it still get cold in the South?

Now, whenever you post, please explain why you believe something and dont say, "yeah, I believe what that guy said" because that is a waste of space and does not contribute to the debate.
And, sorry in advance, if this is a dupped thread.

Ah crap, could a mod please fix the last poll option to:I do not know if I think it does exist or not.

[Maverick]

Fixed the poll.

[Aneklusmos]

Well. I believe in CLIMATE change. Theres a reason why they changed the title from "global warming" to "climate change" because in some areas it is getting colder and some areas it is getting warmer. And it is true that the earth goes in cycles, the last warming cycle happened in the medieval area if I am correct. Cores taken from deep in the ice of Antarctica show that carbon dioxide levels are higher than they have been within the last 650,000 years. That means we are outside of the normal range of climate variation.

This is a great website that gives a quick overview of the book A Inconvenient Truth
http://read-the-truth.com/

[Whisper]

I love how people believe in god whole handedly
yet a FACT no belief required proven by thousands of scientists who have dedicated there entire lives to the study of the environment in a particular area are all raising red flags all saying HOLY FUCK and your average Joe the plumber who knows fuck all about anything to do with the environment can stand there and go nope i don't think its true
the arrogance
jebus

[theOperaGhost]

I can't really answer the poll in the way it is stated. I personally don't believe in the liberal preached (mainly Al Gore) global warming scenario. That is just a completely manipulation and exaggeration of the statistics. I can't accept that view on global warming.

Climate change however is a fact. It has happened to the earth at least twice in the past. The earth has gone into ice ages before caused by the initial heat up of it's climate and it will inevitably happen again. The global warming liberal bullshit is just something to scare people into being more environmental. Being environmental is not a bad thing at all, I just don't like the scare tactic to make people more environmental. It's nearly as bad as an extremist religious group.

[Mzor203]

Al Gore has pretty much skewed the way people are looking at this. I disliked his video because he provided the facts in a way which made you go "Holy fuck we're all doomed!" He blew things out of proportion in a very small, small way.

Many of the people who deny global warming are those who don't want to feel as if they're are doing anything wrong. No one wants to give up their lifestyle in which they are perfectly happy, so they start protesting against anything that might change that.

Now, being meteorologically inclined (And this is a subject in which I REALLY KNOW my stuff), I can explain the hurricane thing. Basically, a prediction is a prediction. There is absolutely no way to know how something is going to turn out unless you can map every single atom in the universe, and know its direction and velocity (And according to the quantum theory, that is impossible, so there goes the idea of being able to predict ANYTHING with 100% accuracy). So just because someone PREDICTS a hurricane, it means fuck all. And there have been powerful hurricanes in other parts of the world. The only ones which make the news are the ones that hit somewhere and blow shit up... people like destruction, for whatever reason, so those are the only ones that are going to make the news.

Now hurricanes are only one part of it. If you're basing your entire understanding of global warming on whether there are hurricanes stronger than Katrina, then I'm afraid you can't really contribute to the debate because that is hardly even relevant to global warming. It is simply a symptom, and as with every disease, the symptoms can vary widely in intensity.

Tha main thing is (sorry, wrapping this up as I smell dinner :P) is that, even if global warming isn't occurring, does that still mean it's okay to pump out the CO2 and pollution? Nope. It hurts people and the environment. There is no excuse for laziness, and if people got less lazy and started taking more action, then we'd have a lot of our problems close to being more or less solved right now.

*End Rant*

[Camazotz]

Global climate change is a fact. While the Earth has cycles and we are supposed to be in a warming part, temperatures have been increasing more than they should have. It is a threat to our environment and humanity, and it's only because of laziness. It's not so hard to ride a bike once in a while, or carpool. While Al Gore is taking it too far, he has a point in saying we need to change our ways now.

[DarkWingedAngel]

i don't think it is actually real
because well last summer we got hail in Ontario
and i thought global warming was supposed to make it hotter

[Mzor203]

i don't think it is actually real
because well last summer we got hail in Ontario
and i thought global warming was supposed to make it hotter

That isn't entirely true. 'Global Warming' is a misleading phrase in itself for the reason that, although the overall temperature of the Earth is heating up, specific areas are going to experience drastically different weather patterns than each other. 'Global Change' would be a more suitable term for the understanding of the average person.

Apart from that, hail is not derived from cold surface temperatures. On the contrary, true hail is most likely to be experienced in hotter, more humid weather, since along with that type of weather the updrafts in the clouds that create hailstones intensify, so that hail can actually become big enough to make it through that fall towards the ground. Thunderstorms and other storms usually create very localized conditions that can be very different from an area 50 miles away, it is simply the nature of the storm.

This illustrates a point that is particularly frustrating in the cause to get people to actually believe that there is some danger. Constantly I will hear, "Oh, but it was colder than average this summer. I thought it was supposed to get hotter. I guess global warming doesn't exist." I want to eat my head whenever I hear something along those lines, and explaining it to them never seems to work.

So that's my rant, it's dinner time now, but I'll certainly be back with more.

[volaricc55]

I could care less really i'm not worrying about when we die we do nothing to it :P.

[AllThatIsLeft]

This feels like a do you believe in "god" thread.

nevertheless. Drastic changes in the climate are a sign of global warming. The hole in the ozone IS real.
all the altered climate changes is because the weather has not been stable. now i am not an expert of this, and i don't know much. But it seems to be that it does speak for itself.

[Mzor203]

This feels like a do you believe in "god" thread.

nevertheless. Drastic changes in the climate are a sign of global warming. The hole in the ozone IS real.
all the altered climate changes is because the weather has not been stable. now i am not an expert of this, and i don't know much. But it seems to be that it does speak for itself.

Technically speaking, the hole in the ozone layer:

a) Really doesn't have anything to do with global warming, except vague relations which are not pertinent to this thread.

b) As of a couple years ago, is on the mend, as regulations were out in place to control the chemicals being released into the atmosphere.

And the thread differs from a 'do you believe in God thread' because the facts are actually THERE, and are 100% provable. There is an increase in global temperature, whether we like it or not.

Not an attack on your info Paula, but I have the urge to keeps things straight. :P

I could care less really i'm not worrying about when we die we do nothing to it :tongue:.

Not caring is one of the worst things you can do. This is an issue which in a few years is going to be HUGE if everything keeps going how it's going. There's pretty much a point where the change in temperature is going to make all the areas of the world where agriculture is big into climates that cannot sustain that growth. It'll kill off thousands of species who can't deal with the rapid change of climate. Storms are going to become more intense and widespread. The coastlines - the most populated areas of the U.S. and other countries - are going to be underwater. All it will lead to is major economic crises, food shortages, etc., etc. It will be affecting you soon enough, so you're going to have to start caring sooner or later.

[Sapphire]

Global warming is a natural phenomena. It has happened many a time and is the reason there have been Ice Ages etc.
The only unnatural thing about the current situation is that we are catalysing the whole process. We are doing this by expelling greenhouse gases into the air which stops more of the suns rays from exiting our atmosphere, which increases the rate at which the Earth is warming up.

[Aneklusmos]

Just my take on the Al Gore is blowing it way out of proportion thing.
Would people pay more or less attention if he just said "well folks we may have a bit of a problem, some changes are gonna need to be made around here" or "look at this holy shit water levels are rising fast cause YOU are driving to many cars. you guys need to cut the fuck back on everything"

sorry ranting

[AllThatIsLeft]

OOOHH rex thanks for destroying my post. lol
and of course it is different from a `do you believe in god thread`this is scientific. Factual. =]

[Sapphire]

Would people pay more or less attention if he just said "well folks we may have a bit of a problem, some changes are gonna need to be made around here" or "look at this holy shit water levels are rising fast cause YOU are driving to many cars. you guys need to cut the fuck back on everything"
Surely the fact that independent scientists have been saying the same thing changes things...

[INFERNO]

To all those saying it doesn't occur, I suggest you re-evaluate your statement. Global warming isn't some recent phenomenon, it's being happening for hundreds of thousands of years.

Also, to the issues of why there aren't stronger hurricanes or warmer weather, it's a simple explanation. The claims made by meterologists are predictions. Nothing is definite until it occurs, plain and simple. The warming isn't going to be noticable right away. It's very slow, gradual heating up, even with our contributions of pollution and such.

But, to those who believe global warming doesn't occur, let me ask you this: How is it that the snow and ice from the Ice Age melted? Did god suddenly think it was too cold so he kicked the sun into high gear even though it took quite some time for it to melt.

DaTrooper00, it's cold at the poles for a rather simple reason. The Earth is tilted at about 23 or so degrees. When the sun's rays come to the Earth's atmosphere, they diffuse a lot and lots of it gets reflected away. The sun's rays tend to be focused primarily around the Equator, so when the rays diffuse, there's not enough sunlight nor is it at the proper angle for the poles to melt faster. This is not to say that they don't melt at all, as they do, just slower.

Clickie to see a simple diagram of the tilt and sunlight (http://www.noc.soton.ac.uk/soes/staff/ejr/DarkMed/9-tilt.jpg)

Article on how global warming can lead to global cooling (http://www.livescience.com/environment/041217_sealevel_rise.html)

[theOperaGhost]

Technically, the ice ages were caused by "global warming." I've basically stated my stance on the issue. I know climate change occurs and has occurred in the past, causing a heat up, then an ice age. It WILL happen again...The thing that bothers me is the liberals placing the blame of this "global warming" on all the people. We may be speeding it up, but we are not causing it. It is a part of nature. It doesn't worry me, but maybe I'm just a stubborn conservative...whatever.

[Zephyr]

The whole, "Global warming, ahhHH! We're all fucked!" thing, ya, no.

Climate change, yes.

[CaptainObvious]

All righty y'all, here is a thread(obviously)about whether global warning actually exists...

OK, my opinion: I think that is not actually real because 1.)the Earth's climate goes in cycle, and 2.) I live in the South, and meteorologists and other people said since of global warming, there will be even stronger hurricanes than Hurricane Kartrina. Well, there has not been a stornger hurricane than Hurricane Katrina yet.
And, another reason is, if the world is getting much warmer, why does it still get cold in the South?

Now, whenever you post, please explain why you believe something and dont say, "yeah, I believe what that guy said" because that is a waste of space and does not contribute to the debate.
And, sorry in advance, if this is a dupped thread.

Ah crap, could a mod please fix the last poll option to:I do not know if I think it does exist or not.

Your reasons for disbelieving climate change are spurious, at best.

The overall climate of the Earth can be warming significantly, and it could still get cold where you live. And there could be no bigger hurricanes. Those two phenomena are entirely compatible with climate change, which you would know if you knew more about it.

[ShatteredGlass]

No, global warming does not exist, this is part of the earth's cycle. It's happened twice before. Look it up. :)

[Curthose93]

"It" has happened more than twice. But this time it is something different. Don't just look at temperature and weather; the levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere are higher than they have ever been. This climate change is being exacerbated, if not outright caused, by human industry.

[Talia]

No, global warming does not exist, this is part of the earth's cycle. It's happened twice before. Look it up. :)


Yes, it has happened before, but we humans most definitely help speed up the process.

I think people need to stop denying the fact that we are causing damage to the earth and should at least do something to stop it, if not try to repair what's already been done. We should care about what happening to our planet, we only have one after all, and it's our home.

[Koman]

I dont see how you can dis-believe it becuase screwed up atmosphere = changing climates. And please dont believe the political bull crap they force feed you over television and in school. The truth is we cant fix out planet and factually even if we stopped running every coal factory in the world and the sun decided to release a coronal mass ejection or a huge ejection of any kind towarsa us it would completely reverse any progress we have maee. And it has happened in the past.

[Sapphire]

And where did you get that info on coronal mass ejections and their effect on the Earth and global warming?

We can't reverse the effect we've had so far, but we can reduce the effect we continue to have on our planet.

[Antares]

I agree that we are being...bombarded by all of this enviromental propoganda but if you think about it...

Earth is the ONLY place we can actually live. If we screw it up, we're dead. It will take it years for us to get and harness the technology to...live in other places.
So saving the enviroment...its kinda NECESSARY!

So yeas, I believe in global warming because as far as I know its proven fact :D

[Whisper]

wAiMAD88_hg
i'm not arrogant enough to believe we were created by some omnipotent being in his image to dominate all else
But I do believe humanity is very lucky to inhabit such a beautiful world

I strongly believe it is humanity's duty and destiny to be the vanguards of this eden
To protect and spread the most precious gift in all the universe, life.
and right now anyway we've dropped the ball....the "baby boomer's" have made a real mess of things.....

[Antares]

wAiMAD88_hg
i'm not arrogant enough to believe we were created by some omnipotent being in his image to dominate all else
But I do believe humanity is very lucky to inhabit such a beautiful world

I strongly believe it is humanity's duty and destiny to be the vanguards of this eden
To protect and spread the most precious gift in all the universe, life.
and right now anyway we've dropped the ball....the "baby boomer's" have made a real mess of things.....

I totally agree with you Kodie.

The issue is also that the Baby Boomers weren't thinking the future. They were kinda selfish in a sense. I don't just blame them. I blame the generation/people from the turn of the century that really started this deathly cycle.

[Koman]

Yes the earth is the only planet we have to live on thus far and it is important to protect it but im saying, the sun would do more harm than running all of our coal factories at the same time. sources? my astronomy class and i've heard it on the history and discovery channel.

[Curthose93]

Yes the earth is the only planet we have to live on thus far and it is important to protect it but im saying, the sun would do more harm than running all of our coal factories at the same time. sources? my astronomy class and i've heard it on the history and discovery channel.

But how often does a CME occur? Compare that to the consistent use of fossil fuels...

It's irrelevant, because 1)it's rare and 2)we can't stop it, so whatever.

[Koman]

But how often does a CME occur? Compare that to the consistent use of fossil fuels...

It's irrelevant, because 1)it's rare and 2)we can't stop it, so
whatever.
Yes we cant stop it was my point

And it has happened to earth before in the 50's i believe.

[Curthose93]

Yes we cant stop it was my point

And it has happened to earth before in the 50's i believe.

I wasn't arguing, I think.

ANd it did happen in the 50's.... the 1850's, though.

[Sapphire]

CME's and flares happen about every 11 years and the greatest impact it has had is disrupting people's lives because it has interfered with electricity. It is natural and has been happening long before we started burning fossil fuels. I hardly see how a natural and fairly common occurrence will cause more damage than our catalysing gobal warming by burning fossil fuels.

[Koman]

CME's and flares happen about every 11 years and the greatest impact it has had is disrupting people's lives because it has interfered with electricity. It is natural and has been happening long before we started burning fossil fuels. I hardly see how a natural and fairly common occurrence will cause more damage than our catalysing gobal warming by burning fossil fuels.


"It is hard to conceive of the sun wiping out a large amount of our hard-earned progress. Nevertheless, it is possible. The surface of the sun is a roiling mass of plasma - charged high-energy particles - some of which escape the surface and travel through space as the solar wind. From time to time, that wind carries a billion-tonne glob of plasma, a fireball known as a coronal mass ejection (see “When hell comes to Earth”). If one should hit the Earth’s magnetic shield, the result could be truly devastating."

http://www.disassociated.com/2009/03/25/coronal-mass-ejection-a-different-sort-of-global-warming/

Now hold on that sounds familiar... Oh yea i said that....

"The truth is we cant fix out planet and factually even if we stopped running every coal factory in the world and the sun decided to release a coronal mass ejection or a huge ejection of any kind toward us it would completely reverse any progress we have made." - Me, previous post.

My exact point.


CME's can seriously disrupt the Earth's environment. Intense radiation from the Sun, which arrives only 8 minutes after being released, can alter the Earth's outer atmosphere,disrupting long-distance radio communications.

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/sun/cmes.html&edu=high


Oh and that 11 year cycle is related to sun spots. Not CMEs.

[Sapphire]

"It is hard to conceive of the sun wiping out a large amount of our hard-earned progress. Nevertheless, it is possible. The surface of the sun is a roiling mass of plasma - charged high-energy particles - some of which escape the surface and travel through space as the solar wind. From time to time, that wind carries a billion-tonne glob of plasma, a fireball known as a coronal mass ejection (see “When hell comes to Earth”). If one should hit the Earth’s magnetic shield, the result could be truly devastating."

http://www.disassociated.com/2009/03/25/coronal-mass-ejection-a-different-sort-of-global-warming/

Now hold on that sounds familiar... Oh yea i said that....

"The truth is we cant fix out planet and factually even if we stopped running every coal factory in the world and the sun decided to release a coronal mass ejection or a huge ejection of any kind toward us it would completely reverse any progress we have made." - Me, previous post.

My exact point.


CME's can seriously disrupt the Earth's environment. Intense radiation from the Sun, which arrives only 8 minutes after being released, can alter the Earth's outer atmosphere,disrupting long-distance radio communications.

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/sun/cmes.html&edu=high


Oh and that 11 year cycle is related to sun spots. Not CMEs.
CMEs happen regularly and categorically do not pose more danger to the environment than we do. They are made up of hot gases and don't carry any extra radiation. The danger they pose are in terms of geomagnetic storms, not greenhouse gases or global warming.

Take a look at these.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast13sep_1.htm
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/CMEs.shtml

[Koman]

CMEs happen regularly and categorically do not pose more danger to the environment than we do. They are made up of hot gases and don't carry any extra radiation. The danger they pose are in terms of geomagnetic storms, not greenhouse gases or global warming.

Take a look at these.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast13sep_1.htm
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/CMEs.shtml

But it is agreed had one be big enough, it could do some serious damage?

[Sapphire]

The worst that could happen is damage to power grids.