Value of human life.

[theOperaGhost]

Are some humans more "valuable" than others? Say a criminal in prison for example, are they less valuable than any other person? Also, is anyone more valuable than anyone? Say a president or high leader of some sort.

I personally regard every as equally valuable, and that value is priceless. I don't regard a prisoner as less valuable as a human life than anyone else and I certainly don't consider a high leader to be any more valuable.

Along with this topic, how highly do you regard human life? Do you think human life is more valuable than the life of other animals?

I do regard human life as more valuable than other animals. Now, this doesn't mean I'm going to go around killing animals, because their lives are extremely valuable and shouldn't be taken. However, humans are basically at the top of the food chain making us more valuable than other animals in my opinion.

And for you vegetarians out there, plants are living. Why is it any more cruel to kill and eat animals than it is to kill and eat plants?

[TigerLily]

Firstly, I agree with you that all human life is equal and priceless, a reason I am strongly opposed to the death penalty.
As a veggie, I don't quite get your point. Yes, plants biologically are living, but can we compare this to the same living qualities possessed by an animal? I'm not sure we can. Animals have feelings and instincts and behaviours - if we look at a pig (a very intelligent animal btw) and a lettuce, well I dont have to point out how extraordinarily different they are.
I think vegetarianism is a personal choice, and I would never have a go at someone who chooses to eat meat because that is they're choice, just as it is my choice not to.
In my opinion, it is far more cruel to kill an animal than a plant. For one, plants do not feel pain. And I'm not even going to try and compare the suffering caused by battery-farmed chickens bred for meat consumption to picking an apple of a tree
Hope that made some sense :)

[Camazotz]

Are some humans more "valuable" than others? Say a criminal in prison for example, are they less valuable than any other person? Also, is anyone more valuable than anyone? Say a president or high leader of some sort.

I personally regard every as equally valuable, and that value is priceless. I don't regard a prisoner as less valuable as a human life than anyone else and I certainly don't consider a high leader to be any more valuable.

Along with this topic, how highly do you regard human life? Do you think human life is more valuable than the life of other animals?

I do regard human life as more valuable than other animals. Now, this doesn't mean I'm going to go around killing animals, because their lives are extremely valuable and shouldn't be taken. However, humans are basically at the top of the food chain making us more valuable than other animals in my opinion.

And for you vegetarians out there, plants are living. Why is it any more cruel to kill and eat animals than it is to kill and eat plants?

I agree with everything you said Jared. Everyone is equal to one another, (Or I wish it was) which is why I'm also against the death penalty.

I also agree that humans are more valuable than other animals. Sure, I don't treat them like dirt, but humans need meat to sustain a healthy lifestyle. What have animals ever done for us? (besides being so delicious)

[Church]

It may make me sound like a a-hole, but if someone is on the death penalty they obviously deserve it, say they raped like 10 women then killed them after in some horrible way, well if I could, I would let the prisoners take care of him and let them do what he did to those women, rape then kill

[Skeln]

Well, I believe that all humans are equal because they're all made the same way. This is also why I'm opposed to the death penelty. (Also because, in my eyes, prison makes people learn their lessons quicker).

However, I believe that people of more importance should come first. The president's life is equal to that of a prisoner, yet the president is more important because whatever happens to him affects the whole country, while whatever happens to a prisoner usually stays with the family and the prison. So people of more importance come first, because if someone killed then yeah, they don't deserve luxary. They made that choice themselves and they ruined their entire life so it's their fault.

I also agree that humans have more value than animals, but this depends as well as to their importance. The world's greatest and ost intelligent dog has more importance than some criminal, but the criminals life comes first. So the dog lives a better life, but the criminal lives a longer life. So it really depends on importance, not value in my eyes.

[redcar]

Humans are not equal, it's why communism fails. On different scales certain people are more valuable than others. It's harsh but true. It is all dependant on what area you consider them valuable.

To me it is inconceivable to say that the likes of say Josef Fritzl has the same value as a human to someone like Diana, Princess of Wales. One is a monster the other was a saint.

To me you create value as a human by what you contribute to society, and those who damage society devalue themselves as a human, therefore I just can not agree that everyone is equal.

[OnlyByTheNight.]

I fully agree with Alex. All human lives are NOT equal. Its true. I mean how could a serial murderer's life be just as valuable as Gandi's?!

[INFERNO]

I don't believe humans are equal. Taking out criminals, presidents/prime ministers, celebrities, etc..., so there's only the average people left, I still don't view them as equal. To me, there's a hierarchy that I make and different people are on different levels. In terms of human life, that too is decided by the hierarchy. If a person is very low, then they're treated more or less like shit and deserve nothing more until they can climb up some levels. Then again, someone who is high on the hierarchy can fall down a few levels.

As for animal life, I value certain animals more than others. For example, the ones I value the most are dogs, cats (including tigers, lions,...), komodo dragons, foxes and wolves. The other animals I have no concern over. If those animals I mentioned are painlessly killed, assuming it's not mine, then I have no problem with it. If it's something along the lines of torture then killed (i.e. dislocate dog's arms, tie them being its back then shove a metal can over it's nose), that person I consider no longer a human. The only fair treatment is for them to enter a human slaughter or torture house and suffer the amount of hours that the animal suffered in minutes (i.e. torture dog for 20 mins, person gets tortured for 20 hours). If the animal was killed in the end, so is the sub-human vermon. If the sub-human vermon killed multiple animals after torture, one of 2 choices exist: (1) they suffer the total length of every single animal in hours, which would probbaly kill them or (2) they suffer the average length and members of their family or friends also suffer. If this means killing their entire family, then so be it, it's the only morally correct thing to do.

As for serial killers, I personally love them so I don't regard them as being very low. If they torture animals but also torture humans, then they've compensated.

In the end, human value is based off of what they do in society and what they do for me.

[Oblivion]

Humans are not equal, it's why communism fails. On different scales certain people are more valuable than others. It's harsh but true. It is all dependant on what area you consider them valuable.

To me it is inconceivable to say that the likes of say Josef Fritzl has the same value as a human to someone like Diana, Princess of Wales. One is a monster the other was a saint.

To me you create value as a human by what you contribute to society, and those who damage society devalue themselves as a human, therefore I just can not agree that everyone is equal.

Agreed completely.
It's sad, but true, that some humans are more valuable than others.
If someone contributes in a good way, their value goes up.
If they contribute in a bad way, their value declines.

[Camazotz]

Agreed completely.
It's sad, but true, that some humans are more valuable than others.
If someone contributes in a good way, their value goes up.
If they contribute in a bad way, their value declines.

If a person contributes to society by making nuclear weapons, is that valued highly because they're smart, or low because they're "evil" and responsible for more deaths?

[Mzor203]

Are some humans more "valuable" than others? Say a criminal in prison for example, are they less valuable than any other person? Also, is anyone more valuable than anyone? Say a president or high leader of some sort.

In short, my view is that all humans, at the core, have the same value in life. What they do, however, will still determine where they get in life, and how they end up. People create their own value for themselves, so while every human has the same value and worth potentially, in the end, you are the one who determines your value.


I personally regard every as equally valuable, and that value is priceless. I don't regard a prisoner as less valuable as a human life than anyone else and I certainly don't consider a high leader to be any more valuable.
As a human life, I suppose nobody is of a lesser or higher value. To others and to the world around them, a criminal is much less value than someone who say, strives for environmental protection.


Along with this topic, how highly do you regard human life? Do you think human life is more valuable than the life of other animals?
Human life is in no way more valuable than any other life on this Earth. We are, actually, of much less value, because we have came in, screwed up the environment, screwed up much of the world's order, and haven't caused any good. All we were was a mistake of nature, pretty much. This is assuming you are coming from an Atheist standpoint. If you are religious and believed we were created by 'someone', then obviously our life would be of higher value, but looking in from a strictly from a worldly point of view, we have done nothing good for this planet or the species that inhabit it.

If you use the argument that we are furthering technology and medicine and all that good stuff... yes, we are furthering it, but only for our own purposes, and we wouldn't need it in the first place if we weren't interfering with the natural order of the world.

'But we're saving other species!' you say. Yes, we're attempting to save them (and pretty much failing to do so on the large scale) from our OWN destruction, which would have never occurred in the first place if humans weren't here.

And as for the top of the food chain thing, that just makes us worth even less, as if we disappeared, it wouldn't have an effect on the food chain since everything is below us. If all the insects died out in the world, the effect would be millions of times worse than if humans died out... meaning technically insects are of much higher value on this Earth than us.


I do regard human life as more valuable than other animals. Now, this doesn't mean I'm going to go around killing animals, because their lives are extremely valuable and shouldn't be taken. However, humans are basically at the top of the food chain making us more valuable than other animals in my opinion.See above.


And for you vegetarians out there, plants are living. Why is it any more cruel to kill and eat animals than it is to kill and eat plants?I am vegetarian strictly for environmental reasons, health reasons, and because I can't stand animal abuse. I eat meat whenever it is hunted locally and has had its chance to survive. I recognize that there is a food chain. Plants simply aren't abused as animals are.


I agree with everything you said Jared. Everyone is equal to one another, (Or I wish it was) which is why I'm also against the death penalty.

I also agree that humans are more valuable than other animals. Sure, I don't treat them like dirt, but humans need meat to sustain a healthy lifestyle. What have animals ever done for us? (besides being so delicious)

I have to answer this by saying, What have we ever done for animals? You have to start by looking at each animal as equal to one another, and then start picking out the traits that make them higher or lower than one another. Looking at what us humans have done to other animals and the Earth, we certainly aren't up there on the moral scale.

And what about the animals' healthy lifestyles? What automatically makes OUR lifestyle more important than THEIR lifestyle? Hmm?

[Oblivion]

As a human life, I suppose nobody is of a lesser or higher value. To others and to the world around them, a criminal is much less value than someone who say, strives for environmental protection.


Wonderful!
What i mean is that how valuable people are to each other changes, but the core value of the human life is the same.

Scenario: If you had to choose, would you rather a family member die, or a criminal who murdered 20 people?
Most would choose the second, because they see them as having less value to them personally.

[Mzor203]

Nick, you bring up another good point. The value of a human life cannot be accurately judged, because the value of something to someone else is all relative to that person. A crime lord is valuable to his subjects, but not valuable to others who are not criminals.

A sticky situation.

[theOperaGhost]

Looking at what us humans have done to other animals and the Earth, we certainly aren't up there on the moral scale.

And what about the animals' healthy lifestyles? What automatically makes OUR lifestyle more important than THEIR lifestyle? Hmm?


I can agree with some of the things you say, but not too much of it.

First of all, if we were just a mishap, that means all life is also a mishap. Or is it just the ability to have complex thought processes the only mistake?

Also, the reason for me cutting your quote down. Do other animals have morality? Is morality only a concept to the human mind? I would certainly say humans are MUCH more morally correct compared to animals. Animals kill to survive and further their life regardless of what it does to any other animal (unless it is an animal that clans naturally). Humans do the same thing. Humans kill to survive. It is how life works. Humans kill for the same reasons as animals, the only difference is humans are the only ones attempting to make life better and sustain life past it's natural length. In other words, technology is the amoral aspect to life. Technology is what humans have that animals don't. The technology that is there to make our lives better or to prolong life is in effect killing those that are weak. Eventually, evolution will kill us and the earth. It is evolution and technology that will be the end.

[Mzor203]

The problem is by doing that - trying to extend life - we are going against what nature has laid out for us. "Moral' is all in the eye of the beholder as well. What might be moral to one may not be moral to another, therefore you can't use morality as an excuse. Animals are pretty much controlled by instinct... they have no way of knowing that killing is wrong, which again, is all opinion, but regardless, they do what they can to survive because it's programmed into them from birth.

And again, looking at it from a more worldly point of view, the destruction we are causing this Earth certainly isn't more 'moral' than what the animals are doing - simply living their lives as their brains are programmed to do. We're both going against natural order and destroying that order. If that is the 'moral' thing to do, then our morals are pretty messed up.

[theOperaGhost]

The problem is by doing that - trying to extend life - we are going against what nature has laid out for us. "Moral' is all in the eye of the beholder as well. What might be moral to one may not be moral to another, therefore you can't use morality as an excuse. Animals are pretty much controlled by instinct... they have no way of knowing that killing is wrong, which again, is all opinion, but regardless, they do what they can to survive because it's programmed into them from birth.

And again, looking at it from a more worldly point of view, the destruction we are causing this Earth certainly isn't more 'moral' than what the animals are doing - simply living their lives as their brains are programmed to do. We're both going against natural order and destroying that order. If that is the 'moral' thing to do, then our morals are pretty messed up.

Rex, we are animals too. We are also controlled by a lot of instinct, the instinct to survive being among them. We have a conscience holding us back a bit when it comes to some instincts, but at the core, we are merely animals trying to survive. Also, I believe I said something similar to your first sentence. That is why I hate technology for the most part. I'm not particularly a supporter of stem cell research or searching for cures and such. Also, working in a nursing home, I am quite against prolonging life past what is natural. I find it to be more torture than just letting them die. I can't stand to think of what will be happening when I'm old because I can't stand what is going on in the present time.

[Mzor203]

And what is your point here? Of course we have instincts! Since we're animals too, we should be on the same level as other animals, not above them.

You're failing to prove anything here. You have yet to give a decent reason WHY humans are more valuable.

[theOperaGhost]

In my opinion, our ability to think wish such complexity is what puts us above the other animals.

[Mzor203]

Why does that make us more valuable when all it has ended up with is massive damage to the Earth and our environment? Complex thinking is simply a trait which came about by evolution, and that could happen again with any species of animals. And if that ever happened, we would find some way in which we were still better than that other species, since we are so selfish.

The thing is, not many are going to admit that they're less valuable than another species. With our mix of instinct and human nature, OF COURSE we're the best species of animals.

And, why just because we can think? Birds can fly, and we can't. Therefore they are superior to us in that way. We have brains, they have wings, bears have incredible strength. Every animal has different traits. Humans just ended up destroying the natural order with theirs.

[theOperaGhost]

And when something with a higher thought process comes into existence, which in my opinion will inevitably happen eventually with evolution, they will be of higher value than us. We will try to fight it, but they will be superior nonetheless so it really won't matter if we try to say we are still superior to that species. Evolution created life and it will inevitably destroy it.

[Mzor203]

So, this is your opinion. Give some reason why just because we are smart we are of higher value. Saying 'this is my opinion' without giving reason doesn't work.

And, why just because we can think? Birds can fly, and we can't. Therefore they are superior to us in that way. We have brains, they have wings, bears have incredible strength. Every animal has different traits. Humans just ended up destroying the natural order with theirs.

And you didn't answer this.

[theOperaGhost]

Brains are more powerful than wings or other strength. It takes brains to make any of those other things work. Our brains are the most powerful of the animal kingdom.

[INFERNO]

Brains are more powerful than wings or other strength. It takes brains to make any of those other things work. Our brains are the most powerful of the animal kingdom.

Explain what you mean by most powerful. Do you mean the biggest overall, different brain structures being larger/smaller, more effective cerebral blood flow, etc... ?

I don't believe it is simply due to our complex thinking. Take for example, throwing a ball for a dog. Does the dog follow it in a straight line? Not always, it tends to take the shortest route to the ball, something that couldn't be done by a stupid animal. I think some of the other things humans can that animals cannot or at least cannot do as effectively are to rationalize more, investigate the components and processes of something in great detail, and possibly being able to plan events far in the future.

[theOperaGhost]

By more powerful I mean those other things such as wings and other muscles of the body would not be able to work without the brain.

[nick]

All people should be valued equally.

Diana, Princess of Wales was no saint. She died as a result of her sleeping around. She was a self seaking publicist and a very manipulative woman.

Yes there are some people who commit deeds of such extreme evil that we think of them as barely human. But we have to show that we wont sink to their level. I dont believe that we can demonstrate the sanctity of life by killing people.

[Mzor203]

By more powerful I mean those other things such as wings and other muscles of the body would not be able to work without the brain.

That isn't completely true, as many organisms at a microscopic level have no true 'brain' like we do.

The part of our brain that is more powerful that other animals is not the one that controls our muscles actions.

And besides, how does us having something better than others make us more valuable? Again, we obviously ARE NOT valuable AT ALL to other animals except our pets. We are not valuable to the Earth, the only thing we are valuable to is other humans, and if all humans didn't exist, nothing would be harmed.

Think of it this way: By destroying the planet like we are, we are being valuable only to about 6 billion organisms: us humans. However, we are destroying the world for quadrillions of other organisms out there. Therefore, whatever value we have is vastly outweighed by the destruction we cause to others.

Just because we have brains doesn't mean anything. If you meet up with a moose in the middle of the woods without any weapons, those brains mean fuck all. Without the tools which we rely on so heavily, we're pathetic weaklings compared to many of the animals out there. So really, if you're going to value anything, value the tools, because they're the only thing which has allowed us to continue on.

And on that topic, you saying that just because we have more brains we are higher in value than other species, you're being slightly hypocritical. You say all human life should be valued, but Albert Einstein certainly had a hell of a lot more brains than you did. So, somehow, in your thinking, differences between humans mean nothing, but difference in species means a good deal. Some apes contain roughly 99% of the DNA set of humans. So why ae humans allowed to break away from this heirarchy of value which you have set for the animals in this world?

[theOperaGhost]

Because I'm a selfish asshole. That is all. I have no other argument to back myself up, so I am done, you have proven your point.