Pope Joan?

[RunAwayMolly]

Does anyone here believe the myth of Pope Joan? the so-called female pope?

Do you think women should be allowed to become pope in the future?

[kolte]

ommmm, isnt it catolic whatever that women cant join the priesthood.

[kolte]

pitty

[redcar]

i dont beleive in Pope Joan at all, back in the day the Catholic Church was a force to be reckoned with they were the super power of their time, like u did not want to get on the wrong side of them. and also since they are totally male dominated, except for nuns who only occupy the very low ranks, i really cant see them electing a female pope ''by accident''.

i know the process of selecting popes was different back in those days, where any male could become a pope, no necessarily a cardinal, but i really cant see where they could make such a bad error,

but in saying that if they did we will never know, Vatican City, is so secretive.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

no, because women arent good leaders. but then again being pope is totally stupid and worthless, and doesnt really require a leader, so who cares. sure--it doesnt really matter anyways

[redcar]

no, because women arent good leaders. but then again being pope is totally stupid and worthless, and doesnt really require a leader, so who cares. sure--it doesnt really matter anyways

hang on there, women are actually quite good leaders, granted there arnt many women in power presently, but still they do make good leaders.

also the pope has an important job, he is the leader of millions upon millions of people, and people do care about him, just look back to Pope John Paul II funeral look how many people atteneded, look how many countries had days of morning. that just shows how many people cared and cared wat he did.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

pft there are like NO woman leaders in power, and thats because noone will vote them in power because everyone knows how much of a bad leader they would be

[redcar]

ok i am just going off the top of my head here,
prime minister of new zealand: woman
chancellor of germany: woman
president of ireland: woman

these were all voted into office fair and square. and they are very good leaders.

[TheWizard]

I saw it on the history channel so its ture.

[redcar]

i saw that documentry too, but i still refuse to believe that the most male orientated organisation , for want of a better phrase, would allow for three years a woman to in control.

[kolte]

GO HILLARY

[serial-thrilla]

I saw it on the history channel so its ture. haha

[Dante]

pft there are like NO woman leaders in power, and thats because noone will vote them in power because everyone knows how much of a bad leader they would be

that was a very sexist comment...how dare you say that they arent woman leaders because they would do a bad job...that is extremely sexist...Do you just cross every fuckin line you see because in your world everything is right.

[serial-thrilla]

why bother tell him that, he knows its sexest he just doesent care.

[///James///]

pft there are like NO woman leaders in power, and thats because noone will vote them in power because everyone knows how much of a bad leader they would be

that was a very sexist comment...how dare you say that they arent woman leaders because they would do a bad job...that is extremely sexist...Do you just cross every fuckin line you see because in your world everything is right.

you know, if it wasnt for having a female president in Ireland (Mary Robinson/Mary McAleese), and having a female Northern Ireland secretary Of State (Mo Mowlam R.I.P.); Ireland would currently be one of the most fucked up nations in Europe? Funny how our current president won in pretty much a landslide.

So ya, there are no woman in power, yep. So thats what drinking cola and watching Fox News does to you! :shock: :roll:

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

ok i am just going off the top of my head here,
prime minister of new zealand: woman
chancellor of germany: woman
president of ireland: woman

these were all voted into office fair and square. and they are very good leaders.

dude... those jobs dont like require real leaders. new zealand? pft who knows about them. im sure a ten year old could run things smoothly in new zealand. and james, u kept referring to the leader of ireland being in a position of power.... ya right. id feel more empowered if i owned a doughnut shop than if i lead IRELAND as;dlfkjasdf

[nwshc]

Being a leader in anything requires skill...

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

nick u signed on like 30 seconds ago and instead of wishing me happy 2006 u say something stupid at me :(

[nwshc]

My msn isn't working you dumb bum on a hot summas day... jesus

Plus, I'm right

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

no you arent... ill give u an example when i leader didnt have to have skills.... FEMA!!!!

[nwshc]

no you arent... ill give u an example when i leader didnt have to have skills.... FEMA!!!!
But that was a man...
Also, I said being a leader in anything requires skill.
The FEMA leader didn't have skill, thus he couldn't leed

[redcar]

ok i am just going off the top of my head here,
prime minister of new zealand: woman
chancellor of germany: woman
president of ireland: woman

these were all voted into office fair and square. and they are very good leaders.

dude... those jobs dont like require real leaders. new zealand? pft who knows about them. im sure a ten year old could run things smoothly in new zealand. and james, u kept referring to the leader of ireland being in a position of power.... ya right. id feel more empowered if i owned a doughnut shop than if i lead IRELAND as;dlfkjasdf


hang on wats wrong with leading ireland, some 4 million people?

and wat are you saying those jobs dont require real leaders? the chancellor of germany is the leader of the government the person who is in charge. and being leader of germany is something that requires real leadership.

and who are you to say that a ten year old could run new zealand. sorry if its not as big and as powerful as the usa, but it is still a country, and leading it requires some skill.

[///James///]

you can say all you want becouse you live in america, but if you had any idea on the history of ireland, you wil realise that it isnt as simple as gettnig two sides to meet in a room and talk. they would pefere to shoot them on the spot, well at least they used to

for a person in power to be able to bring down one of the most troubled spots in western europe is an achievement, but for a woman to is even more

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

for a person in power to be able to bring down one of the most troubled spots in western europe is an achievement, but for a woman to is even more

u realized that while your trying to show me as sexist, your comment is inherently sexist in itself. you said its an even BIGGER achievment for women, as if doing the same thing as a guy is somehow more meaningful when just a guy does it. talk about inequality :roll:

[///James///]

no its becouse (like i sed learn some irish history), woman never had much of a place in society, always were treated like second class citizens. i really should of pointed it out

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

women arent treated as second class citizens, mexicans are ;)

[redcar]

women arent treated as second class citizens,

yea they are in middle eastern countries, like saudi arabia.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

women arent treated as second class citizens,

yea they are in middle eastern countries, like saudi arabia.

ya in middle easterns countries its against the islamic religion to treat women fairly. so if you think treating women as second class citizens is evil, which it is, you must also think the religion of islam is evil. in gaza a UN club was blown up because it was the only club in the area to serve alcohol. people KILL themselves to try and disrupt other people from having a drink. religion of peace my ass. women dont make as good leaders as men do, end of story

[redcar]

granted, we live in a predominatly male world where men occupy most places of power.but that does not make women any less of a leader than a man. what evidence do you have to support your claim?

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

theres infinate examples. here ill pick just one. my dads the vice president of the western region. my mom does jackshit she stays at home. why? beacuse my dads a better leader. end of story

[redcar]

theres infinate examples. here ill pick just one. my dads the vice president of the western region. my mom does jackshit she stays at home. why? beacuse my dads a better leader. end of story

no its not end of story. now my turn, Chancelor Angela Merkel is the leader of one of the biggest countries in europe and is one of the biggest economies there. her husband is a teacher at college. i wonder who the better leader is?

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

ok, so uve named 3 countries with women leaders, out of ONE HUNDRED AND NINETY TWO. so how can u still say women are better leaders when there are more men leaders in the world

[redcar]

ok, so uve named 3 countries with women leaders, out of ONE HUNDRED AND NINETY TWO. so how can u still say women are better leaders when there are more men leaders in the world

i am not saying women are better. they are equal and just as competant as men. u are making out that because there are not more women leaders it makes them less of a leader. i dont see many gay people that are world leaders, would that make gay people any less of a world leader?

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

ok, so uve named 3 countries with women leaders, out of ONE HUNDRED AND NINETY TWO. so how can u still say women are better leaders when there are more men leaders in the world

i am not saying women are better. they are equal and just as competant as men. u are making out that because there are not more women leaders it makes them less of a leader. i dont see many gay people that are world leaders, would that make gay people any less of a world leader?

um YOUR DAMN RIGHT IT WOULD, thats how logic WORKS you moron. if there arent a lot of something, that that something is good. DUH!

[redcar]

ok, so uve named 3 countries with women leaders, out of ONE HUNDRED AND NINETY TWO. so how can u still say women are better leaders when there are more men leaders in the world

i am not saying women are better. they are equal and just as competant as men. u are making out that because there are not more women leaders it makes them less of a leader. i dont see many gay people that are world leaders, would that make gay people any less of a world leader?

um YOUR DAMN RIGHT IT WOULD, thats how logic WORKS you moron. if there arent a lot of something, that that something is good. DUH!

oh please! u actually believe that?

explain how the numerous women world leaders, past and present have done such a good job? following your way of thinking, since there would be more male leaders, then the the female ledears are not good. but most of the women leaders this world has seen have been good, care to explain this inacruacy in your way of thinking.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

im not saying that the women who ARE leaders are bad ones, im saying that the women sex as a whole isnt very good at leading because there are more male leaders than woman leaders

[redcar]

im not saying that the women who ARE leaders are bad ones, im saying that the women sex as a whole isnt very good at leading because there are more male leaders than woman leaders

but there are more male ones because men have been the dominent sex, from the begining of time. it has only recently changed in the last hundred years or less that women have been made equals. so they havent had the chance to lead, but that does not make them any less of a leader than a man.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

yes, theyve been the dominant sex, because they are dominant in many skills (including leadership)

[Dante]

you said something about your dad being a VP of western regiona nd your mom staying at home, and thats because hes a leader or w/e...well i got this forune.com....most powerful women in business...This shows some type of leadership

Rank Name Company Title Age

1 Meg Whitman eBay Chairman and CEO 49
2 Anne Mulcahy Xerox Chairman and CEO 52
3 Brenda Barnes Sara Lee President and CEO 51
4 Oprah Winfrey Harpo Chairman 51
5 Andrea Jung Avon Chairman and CEO 47
6 Pat Woertz Chevron EVP, Global Downstream 52
7 Sallie Krawcheck Citigroup CFO, Head of Strategy 40
8 Abigail Johnson Fidelity President, Fidelity Employer Services 43
9 Karen Katen Pfizer Vice Chairman, President of Human Health 56
10 Judy McGrath Viacom Chairman and CEO, MTV Networks 52
11 Indra Nooyi PepsiCo President and CFO 49
12 Christine Poon Johnson & Johnson Vice Chairman; Worldwide Chairman, Medicines & Nutritionals 53
13 Ann Moore Time Inc. Chairman and CEO 55
14 Pat Russo Lucent Technologies Chairman and CEO 53
15 Ginni Rometty IBM SVP, Enterprise Business Services, IBM Global Services 48
16 Anne Sweeney Walt Disney Co-Chairman, Disney Media Networks; President, Disney-ABC Television 47
17 Susan Arnold Procter & Gamble Vice Chairman, Global Beauty Care 51
18 Ann Livermore Hewlett-Packard EVP, Technology Solutions Group 47
19 Zoe Cruz Morgan Stanley Acting President 50
20 Charlene Begley General Electric CEO and President, Plastics 39
21 Martha Stewart Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia Founder 64
22 Anne Stevens Ford Motor COO, Americas 56
23 Susan Desmond-Hellmann Genentech President of Product Development 48
24 Susan Ivey Reynolds American President, CEO Reynolds American; Chairman, CEO, R.J. Reynolds Tobacco 46
25 Amy Woods Brinkley Bank of America Chief Risk Officer 49
26 Shelly Lazarus WPP Chairman, CEO, Ogilvy & Mather Worldwide 58
27 Irene Rosenfeld PepsiCo Chairman and CEO, Frito-Lay 52
28 Heidi Miller J.P. Morgan Chase CEO, Treasury and Securities Services 51
29 Linda Dillman Wal-Mart EVP and CIO 49
30 Mary Minnick Coca-Cola EVP; President of Marketing, Strategy, and Innovation 45
31 Carol Bartz Autodesk Chairman, CEO, and President 57
32 Doreen Toben Verizon CFO 55
33 Stacey Snider GE Chairman, Universal Pictures 44
34 Cathleen Black Hearst Magazines President 61
35 Lisa Weber MetLife President, Individual Business 42
36 Lois Quam United Health Group CEO, Ovations 44
37 Carrie Cox Schering-Plough EVP; President, Global Pharmaceuticals 48
38 Nancy Peretsman Allen & Co. EVP, Managing Director 51
39 Mary Sammons Rite Aid President and CEO 59
40 Susan Decker Yahoo CFO and EVP, Finance and Administration 42
41 Dawn Hudson PepsiCo President and CEO, Pepsi-Cola North America 47
42 Amy Pascal Sony Vice Chairman, Sony Pictures Entertainment 47
43 Claire Watts Wal-Mart EVP, Product Development, Apparel and Home Merchandising 45
44 Vivian Banta Prudential Financial Vice Chairman 55
45 Ellyn McColgan Fidelity President, Fidelity Brokerage 51
46 Ellen Kullman DuPont Group VP 49
47 Barbara Desoer Bank of America Global Technology, Service and Fulfillment Executive 53
48 Ursula Burns Xerox SVP 47
49 Safra Catz Oracle Co-President 43
50 Kathy Cassidy General Electric Treasurer

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

congratualtions, in the world of 6 billion people, 50 women have done something. this is almost insulting that u have to make a list, because it shows that without a list i wouldnt be able to think up any women examples on my own (which i cant). ur stupid. there are more men leading more things in more powerful positions, and u know it

[Dante]

congratualtions, in the world of 6 billion people, 50 women have done something. this is almost insulting that u have to make a list, because it shows that without a list i wouldnt be able to think up any women examples on my own (which i cant). ur stupid. there are more men leading more things in more powerful positions, and u know it

we know that more men are leading more things in the world, noone is disputing that, but to say that women arent good leaders...that was wrong.

[///James///]

congratualtions, in the world of 6 billion people, 50 women have done something. this is almost insulting that u have to make a list, because it shows that without a list i wouldnt be able to think up any women examples on my own (which i cant). ur stupid. there are more men leading more things in more powerful positions, and u know it

your the most sexist person i have ever come across in my life. like seriosuly, times are changing. if that list was compiled in the 1996 or so, it would be much less. What do you really think, that in order for woman to be better they have to control EVERYTHING? You have a bad opinion of everything if thats the way you think. So what if there is only a couple of female leaders in the world; how about how many male leaders in the world? How many of the males are curropt or are the ones who call for torture and killing; then weigh it up with the woman? I seriously don't think that the President of Ireland or the PM of New Zeland would be doing Saddam style killings?

Just becouse of numbers being greater doesnt mean they are good honest leaders. Quality not quantity boy

yeesh talk about taking gay to the extreme

[Whisper]

Okay first of all Matts not sexist the dude loves to debate and this is a touchy subject so its pefect for him

Men are not better then women when it comes to politics
This isnt ancient greece
Its not all about war now...unfortunatly
we had fire back then


...anyway A girl is just as good as a guy when it comes to politics
Tecnically speaking if you looked at the way the male and female brain developed there better for politics then men
Men can focus on one task allot better then women but women can see and monitor the big picture better then guys. Girls can communicate better, they talk more, can learn languages easier (thats why girls start talkin at a younger age then boys) etc..

Guys are better at war though
we can focus better
can take more external pain
guys can see 3D objects and maps inthere head easier thats why were better at finding out where we are n stuff...yea
its even been proven that its easier for guys to detach from emotions
etc...

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

james what makes u think i give a shit whether u think im sexist or not. as nick pointed out, becomming a leader requires skills. if women had better leadership skills, there would be more women leaders. but there isnt because they dont. thats why men are better leaders

[Dante]

how can you make an assumption that woman dont have good leadership skills?

[///James///]

james what makes u think i give a shit whether u think im sexist or not. as nick pointed out, becomming a leader requires skills. if women had better leadership skills, there would be more women leaders. but there isnt because they dont. thats why men are better leaders

there would be more woman leaders if woman wernt tied down by sexist and segreating (sp?) leaderships. Saudi arabia is one, Kuwait is another. Woman cant go on the street without following strict rules. Do you seriously think that in a second a woman will become a leader of the country? NO

Not every country in the world is free. Men rule most of the world. Men may also rule most of the free world, but they are not nessicary good leaders. If there were more "free" countries, there would be more female leaders

And as for woman being able to tackle wars ect. Well I heard on the TV once before that a country with a female leader is less likly to be at risk of attck or has a better chance of avoiding war becouse the government sees the country as a woman. its all do to with the mind. You can say about Maggie Tatcher in the UK with the Fawklands. She fought it, and she won. There was lots of controversy surrounding it but the end result was she won. If more woman were in charge of wars there may be more results like this. See you must also considder that a leader isnt a leader by them selves. They have advisors, ministers, spin-doctors, press secretaries and representitves. They have all that brain power. They just head it

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

james what makes u think i give a shit whether u think im sexist or not. as nick pointed out, becomming a leader requires skills. if women had better leadership skills, there would be more women leaders. but there isnt because they dont. thats why men are better leaders

there would be more woman leaders if woman wernt tied down by sexist and segreating (sp?) leaderships. Saudi arabia is one, Kuwait is another. Woman cant go on the street without following strict rules. Do you seriously think that in a second a woman will become a leader of the country? NO



stop trying to tackle the aspects of religion. thats how their culture is. women are treated poorly, but only in our eyes. women who live in muslim countries dont mind the fact that they arent allowed to vote or drive cars. thats just how those people operate. we may think theyre treating women poorly, in comparison to our own culture, but in their culture the women have no problem with how they are being treated because it follows the rules of their religion

there are more countries in the world than saudi arabia and kuwait. how come there are so few women leaders in so many countires? uve so far listed 3 countries with women leaders. thats um... a breathtaking 1.56%

[///James///]

well go on then wise guy, name the countries of the world and the leaders who have a non-curropt status aswell as having a male in power. there may be more then 3 countries sure, but jesus there isnt too many (keep in mind you will be naming african, asia and even some new-european countires)

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

well go on then wise guy, name the countries of the world and the leaders who have a non-curropt status aswell as having a male in power. there may be more then 3 countries sure, but jesus there isnt too many (keep in mind you will be naming african, asia and even some new-european countires)

corruption doesnt have anything to do with it, nor can it analyzed objectively because everyones opinion on the matter differs. here ill give you an example. alex thinks george bush is corrupt, politically wrong and insane. i dont.

so now what? i cant just name people who i think are corrupt because u will disagree with me, and even if i WERE to name names, and even if we WERE to come to a consensus, you would still end up with more than 3 EFFECTIVE male leaders.

also, if u already acknowledge there will be more effective male leaders than 3, whats the point?

[Dante]

look, this all comes down to that woman also possess leadership qualities and could be and are effective leaders....yes there arent as much women leaders than men...but the fact that there are female leaders is something and that they are doing good jobs

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

im not saying that women cant be great leaders, im just saying that men are better ones

[Kiros]

no, because women arent good leaders.

... You sure about that? :what:

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

that was a dumb comment. u probably havent read this debate at all

[Kiros]

No, I've been reading it. You're just assuming too much, while being extremely contradictory :?

[///James///]

well go on then wise guy, name the countries of the world and the leaders who have a non-curropt status aswell as having a male in power. there may be more then 3 countries sure, but jesus there isnt too many (keep in mind you will be naming african, asia and even some new-european countires)

corruption doesnt have anything to do with it, nor can it analyzed objectively because everyones opinion on the matter differs. here ill give you an example. alex thinks george bush is corrupt, politically wrong and insane. i dont.

so now what? i cant just name people who i think are corrupt because u will disagree with me, and even if i WERE to name names, and even if we WERE to come to a consensus, you would still end up with more than 3 EFFECTIVE male leaders.

also, if u already acknowledge there will be more effective male leaders than 3, whats the point?

I Can see where you are coming from. in a way I have the whole way though. But what I would like to know is, in say 10 years time, or 20 years time ect, will your opinion still be the same? Like if there are more woman leaders, will you change it? Like cos thats what I am seeing: you only think men are better becouse there are more of them in power?

If Bush was a woman, would you be saying differnt? If Tony Blair was a woman, would you be saying differnt? I guess you would, becouse they are in places of high power, while others are in "small, un-important" nations.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

if there were more women in power, their leadership abilities would be proven, and i would change my opinion yes

[Dante]

* I would like to say that I am actually enjoying this debate...its not getting nasty or anything...Been a while since ive seen that.

* I also want to hear from a female member on this issue.

[nwshc]

If Bush was a woman, would you be saying differnt? If Tony Blair was a woman, would you be saying differnt? I guess you would, becouse they are in places of high power, while others are in "small, un-important" nations.
But, they are not women.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

yes, this has been a good debate so far. but dont end it by talking about the debate itself, instead of what we are debating.

[redcar]

speaking of if bush was a woman hopefully there will be a woman candidate for the 2008 presidentail election. someone like codeleza rice or hiliary clinton.

[nwshc]

speaking of if bush was a woman hopefully there will be a woman candidate for the 2008 presidentail election. someone like codeleza rice or hiliary clinton.
Gross. Not Condi. Yuck

[Dante]

oh no im not trying to end it, just putting in that note...

You have to remember skills such as leadership is earned, not something people are born with. So a woman could posess the same leadership qualities as a man, with proper learning

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

ya, but ahve they? no, they have not. not since ancient times, and still not today. women arent aggressive enough to pursue such positions as leader of a country. men are much more aggressive. example: men are found to do better on multiple choice tests than girls do, regardless of who actually knows more. the deal is that the boys will guess aggressivly, in situations where girls are too timid to guess. because of the multiple choice nature, boys do better. since the early days in the neanderthall age, the men were in control of everything, becuase women were incapable. traces of this are still found today

[redcar]

speaking of if bush was a woman hopefully there will be a woman candidate for the 2008 presidentail election. someone like codeleza rice or hiliary clinton.
Gross. Not Condi. Yuck

how can u think like that? she is such a powerful figure, a force to be reckoned with. she would make a powerful president.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

i really hope she wins. stay on topic!

[Dante]

I cant stand condoleezza rice...she is a puppet of Bush, cant move or think on her own

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

someone reply to what i said above

[Dante]

sry...when u posted that i posted wat i said at the exact same time....would your views be different lets say that ur father wasnt the VP of his region and ur mom was instead.

[///James///]

I cant stand condoleezza rice...she is a puppet of Bush, cant move or think on her own

I agree, but I would like to see her stand against Clinton in 2008

I think that its unfair really that you are saying that woman need to be in power first before they can be proven to be good leaders. The woman who have been in power in the past have overall done a good job. They have been put down in the history books as leaders who did work for their country and its people and help with international affairs. Why do you think Bush put Condeoleeza in such a position that involves international relations?

[redcar]

ya, but ahve they? no, they have not. not since ancient times, and still not today. women arent aggressive enough to pursue such positions as leader of a country. men are much more aggressive. example: men are found to do better on multiple choice tests than girls do, regardless of who actually knows more. the deal is that the boys will guess aggressivly, in situations where girls are too timid to guess. because of the multiple choice nature, boys do better. since the early days in the neanderthall age, the men were in control of everything, becuase women were incapable. traces of this are still found today

the only reason they are not in more power is because women in western civilisation have only been recognised as equals in modern times and have only been allowed take part in elections etc.

i think that men being more agressive than women is beside the point because both sexes have different attributes that can help them lead, and make them good leaders.

the only reason they were like that in neanderthall times was because women are physically weaker, they were put down. but because of someones physical strenght, or lack of, it does not make them any less capable of being leaders.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

yes it does, because being physically strong plays a big part in running for election for any leadership postion. do you think a 90 year old woman who lives off of a respirator could run for president, no matter how brilliant she is? of course not. you have to be strong, you have to have a voice, and u need to be able to take a stage.

u try and give an excuse as to why women arent leaders today, that theyre "just starting to be recognized as equal". thats an excuse, if there was a good leader, nothings stopping that person from leading (regardless of whether their considered equal)

heres an example. back in the 50s, blacks were second class citizens. they werent just second class citizens, they werent even considered to be human beings under the constituion. yet lo and behold, martin luther king. one of the greatest leaders of all time. he became one of the greatest leaders of all time under the most severe prejudice and discrimination. no amount of 'inequalness' stopped him from kicking ass, and NO amount of 'inequalness' is stopping women from leading. if there was a good woman leader out there, she would become a leader. but there ARENT many. u cant use the "oh but they arent treated as equal and given as much opportunites" excuse, because martin luther king totally shatters it.

[redcar]

i am sorry being phsyically strong place no part in an election. i'll give you an example, and dont start slagging ireland, but one of our greatest ever leaders Eamon de Valera was president at the age of 91. the oldest head of state in th world at the time, so physical strenght doenst play a role.

i agree martin luther king was a great leader, however women went through a similar movement, lead by suffragists and suffragettes, they fought for the vote. these women died for the vote. they were lead by strong women in male environment fought for their rights and won. this shows how good leaders women are.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

i am sorry being phsyically strong place no part in an election. i'll give you an example, and dont start slagging ireland, but one of our greatest ever leaders Eamon de Valera was president at the age of 91. the oldest head of state in th world at the time, so physical strenght doenst play a role.

i agree martin luther king was a great leader, however women went through a similar movement, lead by suffragists and suffragettes, they fought for the vote. these women died for the vote. they were lead by strong women in male environment fought for their rights and won. this shows how good leaders women are.

i conceed to you that physical strength plays no part in being a good leader in your case. however, i can think of many examples where physical strength is REQUIRED to be a good leader--the army.

the difference between the woman's suffrage movement and blacks striving for equality is that woman werent discriminated against. now hold on now before u say "bullshit u know they were!". not in the same way. blacks werent even considered people, women were just considered homemakers (and they accepted that for a long time). the womans suffrage movement wasnt as momentous as the "all men created equal under god" movement. plus, off the top of my head i can name martin luther king because you KNOW hes one of the greatest leaders of all time. i cant think of a woman suffrage leader who i would consider one of the greatest leaders of all time.

[redcar]

the difference between the woman's suffrage movement and blacks striving for equality is that woman werent discriminated against. now hold on now before u say "bullshit u know they were!". not in the same way. blacks werent even considered people, women were just considered homemakers (and they accepted that for a long time). the womans suffrage movement wasnt as momentous as the "all men created equal under god" movement. plus, off the top of my head i can name martin luther king because you KNOW hes one of the greatest leaders of all time. i cant think of a woman suffrage leader who i would consider one of the greatest leaders of all time.

i will agree the black movement was more momentous, than the womens movement. but never the less it doesnt take away the quality of leadership skills that these women had. like u have the likes of Elizabeth Cady Stanton, just to name one, fighting for the vote and actually winning, must require a hell of a lot leadership qualities.

it doesnt matter if the woman is a leader of a mass movement or even the pricipal of a school, the size does not make a diference. its the quality. u cant judge the quality of a womans leadership ability by just loooking who had the biggest movement.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

[outburst]god damnit mother fucking bastard bitch i just typed this nice long post and then i click submit and im not logged in, so naturally everything got erased and i have a start over again. what a pain in the fucking ass jesus almighty whore[outburst]

it doesnt matter if the woman is a leader of a mass movement or even the pricipal of a school, the size does not make a diference. its the quality. u cant judge the quality of a womans leadership ability by just loooking who had the biggest movement.

ya well.. i kinda um.. can lol

size DOES make a differnce, both when were talking about penises and leaders. how could u possibly say that the the leadership position doesnt matter? are you trying to tell me that the pincipal of my school, whose moral crusade against littering trumps his agenda, is just as special and just as good a leader as a supreme court chief justice? no. thats not right. in a democracy, people elect people whom they want to lead them. the more prominant a leadership position, the more leadership skills a person must have in order to secure the support of the people. the better a leader u are, the more power u will be entrusted to lead with.

my boss at work does in NO WAY equate with lets say the leader of Chevron. u said that u cant judge a person by their leadership role, when determining how good a leader u are. well guess what, you can. i can pretty much guarantee that in an urgent situation, no matter what it may be, the Director of Intelligence of the National Security Administration is more cut out to handle it than the city library manager.

of course your going to say something like this: "oh but george bush, the most powerful man in the entire world, sucks at leading. there is no correlation between how powerful a leader you are and how well you go about doing it". well of course there is a correlation, but its in the eye of the beholder

my history teacher frequently reminds us that "what you see depends on where you stand". if youre a democrat, ur gunna think bush is a bad leader, where if ur a republican ur gunna love him. me and u cant debate on which leaders are important, because what we see depends on where we stand. theres always gunna be disagreements on whats a good leader and a bad leader. but i think we can all agree on one thing.

it takes more skill, whatever skill means, to lead a nation, than it does to lead a track team.

[Whisper]

Okay dude
this is begining to insult me because your saying that my mum (a high end manager) isnt a capible leader and the sole reason that ur basing this on is that shes a girl

Yet she's fixed SEVERE problems in the organization
shes brought in millions of dollars worth of bussiness
the staff that report to her love her
In all the years shes been there shes never had a single complaint against her

my mum kicks ass
and is an awesome leader

so
blow me

~xXx~

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

not one place did i say women are incapable leaders. i said that men lead BETTER

[nwshc]

[outburst]god damnit mother fucking bastard bitch i just typed this nice long post and then i click submit and im not logged in, so naturally everything got erased and i have a start over again. what a pain in the fucking ass jesus almighty whore[outburst]

it doesnt matter if the woman is a leader of a mass movement or even the pricipal of a school, the size does not make a diference. its the quality. u cant judge the quality of a womans leadership ability by just loooking who had the biggest movement.

ya well.. i kinda um.. can lol

size DOES make a differnce, both when were talking about penises and leaders.
Pft, No/
Like My mom says, "You could have the biggest cock in the world, but if you don't know how to use then your not going to satisfy a woman"
:P

[redcar]

Like My mom says, "You could have the biggest cock in the world, but if you don't know how to use then your not going to satisfy a woman"

your mother is very wise!


ok now i am going to go back to an example that i used of a prinipal, now mine is a women and one of the best you will ever see. if she can lead and protect couple of hundred students keep them safe from bullying, then that makes her a great leader and jsut as great as a local politician. now speaking of politicians they dont have to great leaders all they have to do is whore themselves to the general public, and make some fancy promises, while in office they can do what they like. now you said this
people elect people whom they want to lead them
no they elect who stands. i can thikn of people who would make much better TD's than are currently there.

and no i wouldnt have said that about Bush, pointless argueing about it with you we have different points of view, and i respect yours.

it takes more skill, whatever skill means, to lead a nation, than it does to lead a track team.

well obviously! but who says these people dont posses the skills to run a nation? maybe they would prefer it there, i know people, family even, who have been offered jobs that come with more power and money, but they stayed where they are just cause they liked it, even thouhg they were more than qualified and could have handled the job great.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

[outburst]god damnit mother fucking bastard bitch i just typed this nice long post and then i click submit and im not logged in, so naturally everything got erased and i have a start over again. what a pain in the fucking ass jesus almighty whore[outburst]

it doesnt matter if the woman is a leader of a mass movement or even the pricipal of a school, the size does not make a diference. its the quality. u cant judge the quality of a womans leadership ability by just loooking who had the biggest movement.

ya well.. i kinda um.. can lol

size DOES make a differnce, both when were talking about penises and leaders.
Pft, No/
Like My mom says, "You could have the biggest cock in the world, but if you don't know how to use then your not going to satisfy a woman"
:P

dude, how the fuck would u not know how to use your penis. thats an instinct. thats like saying that i might forget how to drink water properly. and this has nothing to do with leadership capacities, stop derailing the train

[nwshc]

Wow, talk about over analizing it

Not like use it as in just the general fuck

Using it as in making the woman scream for mercy and blowing her mind

jesus

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

Like My mom says, "You could have the biggest cock in the world, but if you don't know how to use then your not going to satisfy a woman"

your mother is very wise!


ok now i am going to go back to an example that i used of a prinipal, now mine is a women and one of the best you will ever see. if she can lead and protect couple of hundred students keep them safe from bullying, then that makes her a great leader and jsut as great as a local politician. now speaking of politicians they dont have to great leaders all they have to do is whore themselves to the general public, and make some fancy promises, while in office they can do what they like. now you said this
people elect people whom they want to lead them
no they elect who stands. i can thikn of people who would make much better TD's than are currently there.

and no i wouldnt have said that about Bush, pointless argueing about it with you we have different points of view, and i respect yours.

it takes more skill, whatever skill means, to lead a nation, than it does to lead a track team.

well obviously! but who says these people dont posses the skills to run a nation? maybe they would prefer it there, i know people, family even, who have been offered jobs that come with more power and money, but they stayed where they are just cause they liked it, even thouhg they were more than qualified and could have handled the job great.

look, im short on time i gotta leave to school. but there is no way in hell my principal could lead the fucking nation. theres no way my manager at pottery barn could lead the fucking nation. in no way does being able to handle a couple thousand students qualify you for handling a couple hundred million people. principals very ineffectively "protect people from bullying" like you claim. talk to anyone whose bullied. noone can protect you from that

[redcar]

look, im short on time i gotta leave to school. but there is no way in hell my principal could lead the fucking nation. theres no way my manager at pottery barn could lead the fucking nation. in no way does being able to handle a couple thousand students qualify you for handling a couple hundred million people. principals very ineffectively "protect people from bullying" like you claim. talk to anyone whose bullied. noone can protect you from that

welll when i use the example of the principal i am using the example from my school where we have an excellent principal who reduced the bullying in my school drasticaly, in comparision to her predesscor who was a fucking tool.

now you go on with "leading a couple of hundred million" are you maybe insunutating that if a country does not have that population they are some way not so important. ireland has 4 million, for our general election we our td's only need a quota, of around 10,000, depending on locality. and for local elections it is around 2000, again depending on area, but that does not make them any less of leaders, and less capable of being good leaders.

[Dante]

you have to remember Bush might be the leader of this nation, but he does not do it alone.....there are his cabinet, Governors, mayors, assemply men, Congress...they all play vital roles in how this nation runs.

[TheWizard]

Bush couldn't manage a T-ball team.

[nwshc]

Bush couldn't manage a T-ball team.
Thats why hes the President of the United States right?
If you are just going to spout bullshit like that, then don't post
Your not funny

[Dante]

Josh, why dont u say something useful in the forum u soooo wanted to look after....instead of nonsense that u usually say....when u say something make sure u have some support to back up ur argument, or in your case lack of an argument