"God created us in his image?"

[INFERNO]

I've presented this argument on another website but received absolutely no replies from it regarding the argument. So, maybe on here I can get some. I've presented it to some of my friends IRL, however, I want to know what you think, considering many of the friends are non-believers, I only get a rather one-sided view.

I know many people, believers or non-believers, take the phrase from the bible of God created us in his image, in quite a literal sense. Whether it should or shouldn't be is a different matter but let's stick with the first condition, where it is taken literally. I'm not going to go the route of how are we physically formed, as I know, somewhere in the bible it says god is not in a human form or something like that. So, here goes.

Humans, like other animals, are composed of cells. In order for us to have cells, and obey this literal interpretation, god must also have cells. Whether we look the same as god is a different matter, one which I'm not going to address. But here is where I see a problem. Humans have a wonderful, extremely large molecules called DNA. If humans have it, then theoretically god should have it. No problems so far. But, the problems start when we look at the DNA replication and inheritance: it's semi-conservative, meaning 1 part from the father, 1 from the mother. This has been proven many times in experiments in humans and other animals. However, what of god's DNA? Theoretically, his would also have to be semi-conservative, but that would imply he was created by something else. This idea is frowned upon because in the little bible it says otherwise.

However, we can consider for a moment, god using conservative DNA replication. For humans to have semi-conservative makes no sense, unless god didn't make the humans, he made the asexual organisms, such as bacterias. Through evolution the bacterias became humans. However, this too is frowned upon due to the presence of evolution.

But, there is one other possibility: Adam and Eve, the supposed first humans god made. Let's suppose for a second, that these 2 used conservative DNA replication, as did god. So far everything seems to check out. As Adam and Eve produced their large family of inbreds, there would most definately be quite a few genetic problems. However, as we know, maybe if they confessed or whatever crap, they miraculously got healed (I'm not a believer in miracles but let's play along with it). How then, would have it gone from conservative to semi-conservative and be so amazingly co-ordinated and vastly complex? Humans are about a second or less in the geological timescale, so evolution would have to occur rather quickly. But wait! Evolution isn't allowed. OK, the other possibility is for whatever reason, god felt the need to make it semi-conservative. But from what I recall, god doesn't control us. He designed us, designed everything else but does he really go and fiddle with our DNA to change it just for the hell of it?

From DNA evidence, it is clear that the DNA of our human ancestors is very similar to ours, including semi-conservativeness. So this begs the question, how is it possible for god to have made us in his image?

The other condition, is a more metaphorical interpretation of god made us in his image. Perhaps that was what is meant to be, a metaphor. But just how is this possible? God is all-knowing, we are not. God is all-powerful, we are not. God is benevolent... well this is very debatable, and the same can be said with us, but if we are to assume he truly is benevolent, humans for the most part aren't. He did gives us freedom of choice, however, that's not the issue here. The issue is, if he made us in his own image metaphorically, how do we resemble him? We are, in essence, from the moment we are born, the opposite of him, maybe even before birth. After all, we cant be like god, that's forbidden.

Or, did it mean to say he is all-knowing, etc... and we are smart, as though we are proportional to him? But that seems a bit far off from being made in his image, it would have to be made similar to his image or along those lines.

So, the argument and question is how did god make us in his image? Furthermore, if he didn't make us in his image (may have made us slightly similar but that's not "in his image"), what about the other claims in the bible? I'm not going to go and analyze all of them but this claim, the one of being made in his image, is a rather important one and one that is very often used in debates.

My next question has to do with the 10 commandments, the rules or laws, so to speak. This will incorporate the idea of being made in his image, although it takes some thinking, so allow me to explain. For this, we're sticking purely with the metaphorical interpretation. God made the 10 commadments, that's all wonderful, but then something gets interesting. Throughout the bible, and I'm going with the New Testament here, god violates them. Most notably, he violates the 6th commandment, thou shall not kill (Exodus 20:13). However, god himself is very well-known to kill one person to an entire village, see Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT. I'm not going to go the route of saying, "well, shouldn't we kill also?" but rather step back and look at it from a larger, more broad view. Throughout the bible it is very well-known that it contradicts itself over and over again. Here is where it will link up to the idea of god making us in his image, metaphorically. God, for all intensive purposes, is hypocritical: the 6th commandment appears to apply only to certain people, as it seems to depend on whose killing and whose being killed. However, regardless of how you spin it, god is hypocritical, as is the bible. So... if we are made in god's hypocritical image, shouldn't we be hypocrites? Perhaps we can even extend this further: if god is hypocritical yet gave us freedom of choice, is he a hypocrite on that also? Are the believers/non-believers also hypocrites for believing/not believing?

So, throughout this somewhat disorganized argument I have given my reasons and I have given evidence for it, and I have presented some questions which I attempt to address and hope others can address them also.

Just a few rules for responding as I'm pretty well aware that it could turn into a flamewar...

1) Non-believers and believers are all welcome to reply, and take the literal or metaphorical interpretation, or both.
2) If you give an argument, put your evidence and reasons. I'm not a fan of reading someone's claim that has no evidence, no substance, no meat on the bones.
3) If you are going to quote a verse from the bible, explain how it ties in with what you're saying, don't just quote it and hope someone else or myself have the same lines of thinking as you do.
4) Don't say to go and read a certain book if you want someone to take some knowledge from it. Post the quote you want to use from the book.
5) Have fun

[Franz Duck]

I wonder if God has a belly button.

[metaldeathhorse]

Well, if "God" created us in his image, then we have to look more closely into the word. The word "image" can be taken in many different terms. Image can mean looks, or the word can trace farther into, as you had described, molecules and DNA and such. But, if we are made of the same cells, and molecules, and things of that nature, as "God" is, why do we not have the same magical powers that he does? And, if we are of the same image, as in looks, as "God", then why have we found the skulls of many ancient hominids that have protruding brows, and features of that nature that look nothing like what we do today.

[Prince_of_Peace]

God does not have cell or DNA because he is a spirit and he IS (meaning no beginning, no end, no past, no future and ALWAYS AT PRESENT). God is the creator and we are his creation. One can see God through His creation. Just like you would resemble your mom and/or you dad. Just like a the artist who painted a great work of art, or a composer created a song. The painting or music already existed in God's mind. Evolution and Creation do not contradict each other. Remember, God has no time. A day in the Bible could be 1 trillion days.


I have to think about your second question.

[metaldeathhorse]

My rebuttal to that is simply: where is your cold-hard proof. Evidence that this "God" that you believe in so strongly really is there and watching over every one of us? And that he is a "spirit" and timeless.

[ShatteredGlass]

Well in sense yes it could be taken quite literally seeing as Jesus Christ was one form of God and yes he appeared in the human form. The holy spirit, is just a spirit so i guess it would kind of seem foggish? As for God the father (the trinity God the Father, God the son and God the holy spirit) I cannot really say, seeing as i havent died and gone to see Him. However i think it's more in the way we should act like God's a lover, and if we are created in his image then we should also be lover's, God gives forgiveness, therefore we should give forgiveness. Not saying, however, that we are gods, just that we should act in the ways of God because that is how we were created, that's why i think we ultimately experience regret when we do something "wrong" because that's not how we were created. :)

[INFERNO]

Well, if "God" created us in his image, then we have to look more closely into the word. The word "image" can be taken in many different terms. Image can mean looks, or the word can trace farther into, as you had described, molecules and DNA and such. But, if we are made of the same cells, and molecules, and things of that nature, as "God" is, why do we not have the same magical powers that he does? And, if we are of the same image, as in looks, as "God", then why have we found the skulls of many ancient hominids that have protruding brows, and features of that nature that look nothing like what we do today.

True, "image" can be interpreted in many ways. I avoided the part on saying the same magical powers simply because, somewhere in the bible (I don't know the exact verse) it says along the lines of humans being unable to be like god and have his powers. For that simple reason, I avoided discussion on humans not having god's magical powers.

For the second question regarding the various skulls, that is an excellent question. I see that as a fairly good refute against the literal interpretation of being made in god's image.

God does not have cell or DNA because he is a spirit and he IS (meaning no beginning, no end, no past, no future and ALWAYS AT PRESENT). God is the creator and we are his creation. One can see God through His creation. Just like you would resemble your mom and/or you dad. Just like a the artist who painted a great work of art, or a composer created a song. The painting or music already existed in God's mind. Evolution and Creation do not contradict each other. Remember, God has no time. A day in the Bible could be 1 trillion days.


I'm assuming you're taking a more metaphorical interpretation. However, there is one thing that always just bothers me about the phrase in bold. Somehow, it has to be made. The universe didn't just magically appear out of nowhere, that too has its origins.

I'm a bit confused about you saying "one can see God through His creation" and your examples. That seems to be a more literal interpretation, and that seems to be suggesting that we literally were made in his image, however, in the beginning line of your response, you contradict this. I'm quite confused here.

The underlined part is another contradiction: first, god has no time, then he has time. A trillion days still is time, it is a long time, but it is time none the less.

Well in sense yes it could be taken quite literally seeing as Jesus Christ was one form of God and yes he appeared in the human form. The holy spirit, is just a spirit so i guess it would kind of seem foggish? As for God the father (the trinity God the Father, God the son and God the holy spirit) I cannot really say, seeing as i havent died and gone to see Him. However i think it's more in the way we should act like God's a lover, and if we are created in his image then we should also be lover's, God gives forgiveness, therefore we should give forgiveness. Not saying, however, that we are gods, just that we should act in the ways of God because that is how we were created, that's why i think we ultimately experience regret when we do something "wrong" because that's not how we were created. :)

The part in bold is a highly debatable subject: many find god to be very loving, after all, he made us didn't he? But the other side is he acts sometimes like the very opposite of love - throwing people in a place to suffer for eternity, killing an entire village because 1 person disagrees (see Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT), killing homosexuals, killing children, etc... . The idea of him being a loving being is somewhat hard to conclude because sometimes he is loving, other times he seems more sadistic and cruel.

If we should act like god in his loving sense, this leads to a big mess. If we act like how god wants, obeying the Ten Commandments and such, we have in essence, proven ourselves cruel also. God wants homosexuals, non-believers, etc... killed, and if we obey this want, that for starters is not a loving attitude nor behavior, but it also violates the 6th Commandment (going with the New Testament).

The "regret" is a bit of a difficult issue for the reasons explained above. Sometimes in god's view the killings are justified, other times they're not. So doing something "wrong" needs to be defined. Does it mean doing something unjustified, such as killing a non-sinful believer? Or does it mean doing something justified, such as killing a homosexual non-believer? In both cases it violates the 6th Commandment according to the New Testament, but according to the Old Testament, only the 1st example would be a violation (for the 6th Commandment is thou shall not kill/murder without reason).

Furthermore, as I gave in my big long argument, god is rather hypocritical, and if we are metaphorically made in his image, shouldn't we also be? After all, if we are meant to inherit his "loving" nature, then why not his other natures? I think it's only logical to assume we would inherit his hypocritical nature, and thus, humans are hypocritical. So if god says thou shall not murder but does so anyways, then should we observe the same; say we shouldn't kill yet kill anyways?

This isn't meant to be a way to bash god, but rather to say if we inherit or are made with some of his qualities, shouldn't it be all of them and not something where we or him, pick and choose? I assume it should be all of them.

[ShatteredGlass]

The part in bold is a highly debatable subject: many find god to be very loving, after all, he made us didn't he? But the other side is he acts sometimes like the very opposite of love - throwing people in a place to suffer for eternity, killing an entire village because 1 person disagrees (see Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT), killing homosexuals, killing children, etc... . The idea of him being a loving being is somewhat hard to conclude because sometimes he is loving, other times he seems more sadistic and cruel.

If we should act like god in his loving sense, this leads to a big mess. If we act like how god wants, obeying the Ten Commandments and such, we have in essence, proven ourselves cruel also. God wants homosexuals, non-believers, etc... killed, and if we obey this want, that for starters is not a loving attitude nor behavior, but it also violates the 6th Commandment (going with the New Testament).

The "regret" is a bit of a difficult issue for the reasons explained above. Sometimes in god's view the killings are justified, other times they're not. So doing something "wrong" needs to be defined. Does it mean doing something unjustified, such as killing a non-sinful believer? Or does it mean doing something justified, such as killing a homosexual non-believer? In both cases it violates the 6th Commandment according to the New Testament, but according to the Old Testament, only the 1st example would be a violation (for the 6th Commandment is thou shall not kill/murder without reason).

Furthermore, as I gave in my big long argument, god is rather hypocritical, and if we are metaphorically made in his image, shouldn't we also be? After all, if we are meant to inherit his "loving" nature, then why not his other natures? I think it's only logical to assume we would inherit his hypocritical nature, and thus, humans are hypocritical. So if god says thou shall not murder but does so anyways, then should we observe the same; say we shouldn't kill yet kill anyways?

This isn't meant to be a way to bash god, but rather to say if we inherit or are made with some of his qualities, shouldn't it be all of them and not something where we or him, pick and choose? I assume it should be all of them.

Okay, okay i can see where you are coming from but you say that he's going to throw people into hell for all eternity and that makes him sadistic. Right? And yes i can see how someone would think that. But the thing is, it is that individuals choice. God says, John 3:16- For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Basically, if you believe in Jesus Christ, you dont have to worry. He doesnt want people to turn away from Him, if He was "sadistic" (not being sarcastic or bashing you) he would have never sent His son to save us, he would have let us all burn in hell or wiped us all out.

And i can't speak for God on the homosexual bit, and i can't say who deserves to live or die. But i do know that the old testament is based on the laws before Christ came, so the laws changed after. Since Christ came we don't have to do animal sacrafices, or die because we arent virgins, or because we are homosexual. Not saying to completely disregard the Old testament.

And about the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" that applies to murder, when you set out to kill someone just for evil purposes or the coldness of your heart. Not like the troops who defend, or killing to protect.

And we are made with all of His qualities please elaborate on why you think He's hypocritical? But also understand that God is perfect
Romans 12:33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
Basically meanig that our mortal minds cannot fully comprehend the greatness of God meanig, we cannot fully understand His ways though we can try and should. Hope that answers your questions.

[Camazotz]

Since all people look different, wouldn't God (if he existed) be different to everyone? What I'm trying to say, is that He wouldn't be a physical thing, only a thing of imagination. He would only look like what you wanted Him to. Every person imagines a different God, which is fine; it just means that our minds make up what he looks like based on thoughts and feelings.

[INFERNO]

Okay, okay i can see where you are coming from but you say that he's going to throw people into hell for all eternity and that makes him sadistic. Right? And yes i can see how someone would think that. But the thing is, it is that individuals choice. God says, John 3:16- For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Basically, if you believe in Jesus Christ, you dont have to worry. He doesnt want people to turn away from Him, if He was "sadistic" (not being sarcastic or bashing you) he would have never sent His son to save us, he would have let us all burn in hell or wiped us all out.

And i can't speak for God on the homosexual bit, and i can't say who deserves to live or die. But i do know that the old testament is based on the laws before Christ came, so the laws changed after. Since Christ came we don't have to do animal sacrafices, or die because we arent virgins, or because we are homosexual. Not saying to completely disregard the Old testament.

And about the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" that applies to murder, when you set out to kill someone just for evil purposes or the coldness of your heart. Not like the troops who defend, or killing to protect.

And we are made with all of His qualities please elaborate on why you think He's hypocritical? But also understand that God is perfect
Romans 12:33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
Basically meanig that our mortal minds cannot fully comprehend the greatness of God meanig, we cannot fully understand His ways though we can try and should. Hope that answers your questions.

Well, he didn't wipe all of us out, which is correct, however, he did flood the world, he did wipe out many villages, he did order a woman who announced she was raped to be killed along with the rapist, and so forth. He also does let people burn in a firey pit in pain as he watches them for eternity. That there to me is sadistic. Yes, he did sacrifice his son and doesn't kill everyone but to be sadistic, he doesn't have to kill everyone. He only has to enjoy inflicting pain and torture on some, which he does do.

To give another example, take Numbers 31:7-18 NLT, Deuteronomy 20:10-14, Judges 5:30 NAB, Exodus 21:7-11 NLT and Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB. All of those above references are where god clearly allows, even encourages rape of women, as well as some killing of men, non-virgin women and children. It is also in the New Testament, not the Old Testament. I gave a variety of references simply so I don't favour 1 source over the others, give some diversity in my examples.

Well... homosexuals are ordered to be killed, along with children and such even in the New Testament.

Yes, "thou shall not kill" applies to murder as well. I should have put murder also but that was my mistake, thank you for pointing it out.

I think he's hypocritical because he says "don't kill/murder" yet he turns around and he does kill. Definition of a hypocrite right there. This isn't a one time occurance, it happens throughout the bible.

But, as I did before, I'll give a variety of biblical references that don't all focus on murder and killing. In fact, none of these do. I'll give them in pairs.

Tim 6:16 and 1 Kings 8:12 (god is in light, god is in darkness).
Exodus 33:23 and Exodus 33:11 (God can be seen and heard, god is invisible and cannot be heard).
Exodus 31:17 and Is 40:28 (God is tired and rests, god is never tired and never rests).

And now, for what is probably one of my favourite ones...

Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21 and Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8 (God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things , God is not everywhere present neither sees nor knows all things).

There are many others but these were just a few. I'm not intending to bash it or anything but it's right there, right for you to see. God is hypocritical, not only on what he says to do or not to do, but also on what he is (all-knowing then not all-knowing). He is not all perfect, as no divine being would do so many contradictions on who/what he is, what he possesses, and even acknowledging that he isn't pleased with his work (Gen 1:31 , God is pleased with his works , Gen 6:6, God is not pleased with his works). Therefore, if we inherit the qualities of god, it is only reasonable we inherit his quality of being a hypocrite. After all, being made in his image doesn't imply getting only a few traits, not a self-serve buffet.


Since all people look different, wouldn't God (if he existed) be different to everyone? What I'm trying to say, is that He wouldn't be a physical thing, only a thing of imagination. He would only look like what you wanted Him to. Every person imagines a different God, which is fine; it just means that our minds make up what he looks like based on thoughts and feelings.

If he looks like how you imagine, then how are you made in his image? He would be made in your image, which is not what the bible states.

What you are saying does seem reasonable, however, it's neither the literal and metaphorical interpretations of being made in god's image.

In my opinion, I do think it is purely imaginary.

[Prince_of_Peace]

Your face my friend would resemble the face of your parents. In essence, you are made out of your parents DNA. Your parents are the your creator and you are the creation. Just as God is the CREATOR...we can find his image and likeness in His CREATION. Do not assume that I am speaking in metaphorical interpretation. How else can anything exist if not in the mind of the CREATOR first.

God is always present and has no beginning nor end. When God created the world, a day in creation (in the Bible) could mean a trillion years (in evolution). Remember, he is eternal and has no beginning nor end. He IS and always present. Creation's time could be billion of years in human time, could be a second in divine time. There is no contradiction in here.

I understand that you are looking for the truth. You wonder where you came from...the reason you asked about creation. Where did life come from. Science's goal is to good things for man, to prolong life, to heal sickness so that life can have meaning. Day by day, we ripe and ripe. Day by day we rot and rot. So life is limited and we die. But you look for the LIFE. You tear apart your toy and ask what makes the wheel go round...man begins to tear human DNA and try to find the truth in everything. Man even cloned animals and try to search for the ultimate TRUTH. Yet, for every scientific theories discovered, the more questions we asked. So man is in a never ending search for the TRUTH. Man also look for love. He wants to be accepted, belongingness for man is not good to be alone. You and I need somebody to love and to be loved in return. So there are three things that man looks for: LIFE, TRUTH and LOVE. If you are looking for a light, you will not be searching underneath a rock, nor underneath a table for light is mixed with darkness. If you will look for the light, you will get close to a light bulb that is on or outside where the sun is shinning on you. If man is looking for LIFE, TRUTH and LOVE, he should go to the ultimate LIFE, ultimate TRUTH and ultimate LOVE....and that is the definition of GOD.

You ask for the TRUTH. My friend, it is not you who is looking for God....it is GOD who is searching for you. It is more of a divine infection....you are restless until you find GOD.

[Sage]

You know, Joel, I don't want this to sound like a personal attack or anything, but I really am getting sick and tired of the way you present your points. There are better ways to argue theism than preaching. That being said, let's begin.

How else can anything exist if not in the mind of the CREATOR first.

Science happily says we don't know what came first. Replacing 'We don't know yet' with 'God did it' gets us nowhere.

God is always present and has no beginning nor end.

One could also say the universe is always present and has no beginning nor end. If God is eternal, why did he choose to do all the things he is claimed to have done at one point and not another?

When God created the world, a day in creation (in the Bible) could mean a trillion years (in evolution).

That's just a silly argument used by creationists to make their claims look less ridiculous.

Remember, he is eternal and has no beginning nor end. He IS and always present.

I already argued against this, see above.

Creation's time could be billion of years in human time, could be a second in divine time. There is no contradiction in here.

There's no contradiction because you're making up a silly idea such as divine time. What is divine time? How is it different from regular time?

I understand that you are looking for the truth. You wonder where you came from...the reason you asked about creation. Where did life come from. Science's goal is to good things for man, to prolong life, to heal sickness so that life can have meaning. Day by day, we ripe and ripe. Day by day we rot and rot. So life is limited and we die. But you look for the LIFE. You tear apart your toy and ask what makes the wheel go round...man begins to tear human DNA and try to find the truth in everything. Man even cloned animals and try to search for the ultimate TRUTH. Yet, for every scientific theories discovered, the more questions we asked. So man is in a never ending search for the TRUTH. Man also look for love. He wants to be accepted, belongingness for man is not good to be alone. You and I need somebody to love and to be loved in return. So there are three things that man looks for: LIFE, TRUTH and LOVE. If you are looking for a light, you will not be searching underneath a rock, nor underneath a table for light is mixed with darkness. If you will look for the light, you will get close to a light bulb that is on or outside where the sun is shinning on you. If man is looking for LIFE, TRUTH and LOVE, he should go to the ultimate LIFE, ultimate TRUTH and ultimate LOVE....and that is the definition of GOD.

This whole block is just preaching that I refuse to dignify with a proper analysis.

You ask for the TRUTH. My friend, it is not you who is looking for God....it is GOD who is searching for you. It is more of a divine infection....you are restless until you find GOD.

No man, you join my church.

[Prince_of_Peace]

1 - My apologies Deschain for having misinterpreted me. My POST REPLY is respose to INFERNO.

2 - When you say "Science happily says..." since when did science started to have feelings? (no clue where you got that)

3 - When you say "one could only say"...could be anything what he wants to say and does not constitute reason. This "one "who is speaking can possible someone who came from a fictional book....who knows

With this being said...I have no further comments to any arguement you present for "feelings" and "people who speak out of "unknown origin" do not contitute a response for a healthy and educated conversation and forum. I have no intention to hurt your feelings but ideas do not come from a numeric value of ONE.

I am not a preacher and I do not preach. My responses can be found in the book written by Thomas Aquinas, Agustine. I am sure you might encounter some of their books in Theology.

I find it difficult to join your church if they have convinced you that science can feel.

[Sage]

1 - My apologies Deschain for having misinterpreted me. My POST REPLY is respose to INFERNO.

Perhaps, but being a debate forum, I see no harm in my replying to it.

2 - When you say "Science happily says..." since when did science started to have feelings? (no clue where you got that)

You're reading too much into things. I'm saying that in science, there is no problem with saying we don't know things yet. It's only in theism that we have religions who claim to have all the answers and almost never change their views, despite new evidence.

3 - When you say "one could only say"...could be anything what he wants to say and does not constitute reason. This "one "who is speaking can possible someone who came from a fictional book....who knows

I'm not sure what you're getting at with this. The main point in my argument is that you saying God is eternal is no more valid than a random persons saying the universe is eternal. The argument holds no merit.

With this being said...I have no further comments to any arguement you present for "feelings" and "people who speak out of "unknown origin" do not contitute a response for a healthy and educated conversation and forum. I have no intention to hurt your feelings but ideas do not come from a numeric value of ONE.[/quote

Is your english poor or something? One, in this context, is a pronoun.

[QUOTE=prince_joel1;459967]I am not a preacher and I do not preach. My responses can be found in the book written by Thomas Aquinas, Agustine. I am sure you might encounter some of their books in Theology.

Firstly, if you're getting your answers directly from a book, why the hell aren't you using quotations? That's plagiarism. Secondly, Theology isn't taught at my school.

I find it difficult to join your church if they have convinced you that science can feel.

Again, you read that literally, when it was simply a snarky little joke you missed.

[INFERNO]

First, I want to get something straight with you: I do not wish to be preached to. I wish for you to answer my questions or refute my debate. This can be done without having you preach. So, the parts I will answer will be of everything that you did not preach about.

Your face my friend would resemble the face of your parents. In essence, you are made out of your parents DNA. Your parents are the your creator and you are the creation. Just as God is the CREATOR...we can find his image and likeness in His CREATION. Do not assume that I am speaking in metaphorical interpretation.

Not true all the time. There can be numerous mutations and the face will have little or no resemblence to the parents. However, assuming no visible mutation occurs, there will be some differences. They may be subtle but there will be some.


God is always present and has no beginning nor end. When God created the world, a day in creation (in the Bible) could mean a trillion years (in evolution). Remember, he is eternal and has no beginning nor end. He IS and always present. Creation's time could be billion of years in human time, could be a second in divine time. There is no contradiction in here.

Yes there is contradiction here. Let me show you.

"
7(A)Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8(B)If I ascend to heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, (C)You are there.
9If I take the wings of the dawn,
If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea,
10Even there Your hand will (D)lead me,
And Your right hand will lay hold of me. " (Psalm 139:7-10)
This states how God is present everywhere and is all-knowing.

" 20 Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."" (Genesis 18:20,21)
This states that god is not all-knowing nor always present.

Also,

"11 The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent." (Exodus 33:11)
This shows that god can be seen and heard.

"No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known." (John 1:18)
This clearly shows god cannot be seen.

These last 2 quotes don't show he does not exist, but rather, assuming he does, we can or cannot see him. This can be argued as not being present, however, it is a rather feeble argument.

Unless you have some evidence to support your claim that 1 day for god is a trillion years for evolution, then it is a silly claim, and I can do the same: 1 day for god is 1 day for evolution.


Where did life come from. Science's goal is to good things for man, to prolong life, to heal sickness so that life can have meaning. Day by day, we ripe and ripe. Day by day we rot and rot. So life is limited and we die. But you look for the LIFE. You tear apart your toy and ask what makes the wheel go round...man begins to tear human DNA and try to find the truth in everything. Man even cloned animals and try to search for the ultimate TRUTH. Yet, for every scientific theories discovered, the more questions we asked. So man is in a never ending search for the TRUTH. Man also look for love. He wants to be accepted, belongingness for man is not good to be alone. You and I need somebody to love and to be loved in return. So there are three things that man looks for: LIFE, TRUTH and LOVE. If you are looking for a light, you will not be searching underneath a rock, nor underneath a table for light is mixed with darkness. If you will look for the light, you will get close to a light bulb that is on or outside where the sun is shinning on you. If man is looking for LIFE, TRUTH and LOVE, he should go to the ultimate LIFE, ultimate TRUTH and ultimate LOVE....and that is the definition of GOD.


Science's goal is not to have "good things for man". It is to use a systematic, objective approach to determine the mechanisms and propose explanations of phenomena. Whether those theories and outcomes are used for good or bad is nothing to do with science, it is to do with the person using the science. Yes, as we discover more, we ask more questions. If we figure out the B causes A, then naturally we want to know what causes B? Suppose C and D both cause B, then what causes C and D? We can ask an infinite amount of questions and that is also part of science. Unfortunately, the rest of what you typed was preaching, or if there was a point or question in it, I couldn't find one.

[Evermore]

Does anyone remember the scientific method back in middle school? Science can't prove anything. Hypothesis > Theory > Law > Counter Example > Now it is nothing.
You remember the story about spontaneous life? Or an Earth Centered universe all were scientific laws and with one counter example were left in the dust. Science can't prove anything. So the phrase science has proven... is just false and everything after that should be disregarded.

I agree with Prince of Peace on the metaphor about how you can see a reflection of the artist in his painting and that is how we are in his image.

[IAMWILL]

Please don't bump old threads, this one is really old.
Thanks, :locked: