Gay Marriage

[WelshLad]

Is it legal in the USA and Ireland yet? coz it was legalised here in Wales about 3 weeks ago. (Just curious)

[redcar]

ireland most certainly not, in the depths of it we are very set in our ways being gay was only legalised in the 90's and Playboy wasnt allowed be sold until 1995. it will be a cold day in hell before Ireland legalise gay marraiges, which is a shame.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

nope

[WelshLad]

so if a gay irish guy came over to wales to get married legally (to a guy) - would the marriage be seen as valid if he went back to ireland?

[redcar]

is that a proposal Lloyd? :wink: only j/k!

but no it wouldnt be recognised at all.

[kolte]

some places in america allow it i think, so sorta.

[<-Dying_to_Live->]

i live in the us. and in that case, no, it would be invalid here. i think in massachusettes u can get married if ur gay, courtesy of a supreme court ruling there. nick correct me if im wrong, but if a gay married massachusettes couple came to california i believe their marriage would be voided

[nwshc]

erm... idk, there has been some shit about that. Gay couples coming here and marrying and going back to NY and such.

To tell you the truth, i don't know. I guess it would be all good in mass, but out of mass its void

[WelshLad]

that sucks - at least accept it if theyre too prejudice to peform them

(would u say yes if it was a proposal alex? :wink:)

[redcar]

its shit living in a homophobic world.

[WelshLad]

ah well - when ur older, come to wales and find urself a gr8 guy

[redcar]

no i dont plan on getting married, why sign over everything you own to be joint owned by someone else, u dont need to get married to someone to show them u love them.

[WelshLad]

i suppose not. i've never been a fan of marriage. these days there's nothing new there

[[email protected]//]

i dont rele think so

[serial-thrilla]

its legal in canada, not many gay people get married though.

[Whisper]

its legal in canada
For now
I hope it stays

[nwshc]

What the hell happened to the gay marriage sticky?

[redcar]

it was un-stickied cause it didnt get wnough traffic i presume.

[0sm0sis]

ah well - when ur older, come to wales and find urself a gr8 guy

rofl, he's the only gay in the village! ( I know I'm not the first to do it to you, but I don't care.)

[redcar]

ah well - when ur older, come to wales and find urself a gr8 guy

rofl, he's the only gay in the village! ( I know I'm not the first to do it to you, but I don't care.)

what are you on about, he is not gay.

[serial-thrilla]

i dont think its going to stay in canada for much longer, the conservative party is leading and they dont want it.

[kolte]

my view on gay marraige is....its none of your business. thankyou very much

[Aηdy]

my view on gay marraige is....its none of your business. thankyou very much

well said.. my view is.. well im not gay but i think that if people are gay and they want to get married then they should be able to.

[Underage_Thinker]

ya sierusly i dont think it matters. I mean dosnt no, so i dont see y people are against it.

[serial-thrilla]

people are against it because they believe it is a violation of a sacrad ritual

[Cap'nCrunch]

Doesn't sound like a debatable question to me. Its not in the U.S. yet.

[redcar]

Doesn't sound like a debatable question to me. Its not in the U.S. yet.

actually its one of the biggest current debates going, shoud gay people be afforded the same rights as a str8 person.

[tucker92]

the argument that so-called conservatives make against gay marriage is that they want to protect the family. it just seems to me that by not allowing some people the same rights as other people the opposite is actually happening. how can u protect the family while not allowing part of the population to have one? its all fear and ignorance...two things the world is full of. wouldnt it be alot better if people would just live their own lives and let other people do the same thing instead of trying to dictate how other people live? yeah im dreamin but its a good dream.

[Webbeardthepirate]

The US constitution has a requirement that a state recognize any contracts made under the law of another state, as well as all legal documents. That's why a driver's license good in one state allows you to drive in all the others. This why the republicans (not the same as the kind in northern Ireland) want a constitutional amendment to outright ban gay marriage, then no court could overturn it. There is some debate about whether a marriage that is illeagle in one state has to be recognized in another. This is the same as the Dread Scot Case that lead to the civil war in which the Supreem court ruled that a slave in a slave state remained a slave in a free state like Minnesota. Free staters didn't like that at all, and wanted to ban slavery everywhere in that case. Southerner's depended on slaves and so they rebelled before Lincoln, who promised to keep slavery out of the free states, could do any thing about it. Would Massechusits withdraw from the Union? It didn't work for the south so I doubt it. In for a penny in for a pound as they say.

[advent_child]

not all republicans want that... there are many tho.
tell me if im wrong here (rhetorical statement) but why not take advantage of the whole federal system of the sharing of state and federal powers take it over. if the population of a state wants gay marriage, they can have it without interference, if the don't, then vise versa. eventually good will prevail and biggotry will die (hopefully a painful death) and all states will grant gay rights. let the homosexuals of a state fight for their own rights, in turn not making people in , for example, mississippi conform to a belief they cant except yet (because they dont understand that we can all live happy if no one whines) i beg of you please stop making the rednecks riot!!!!!! i live in south louisiana if they are pissed off they piss everyone off!

[kolte]

Well, though it really doesn’t support gay marriage, it is very possible to have children threw genetics. Should two lesbians want a child, the nucleus of one woman’s cell can be implanted into the egg of another woman. Two men still cannot have a child of there own, but still, we are reaching a point in time that men are no longer needed for life. However daunting this idea is, I don’t support it, I’m just saying.....well actually, I don’t know what I’m saying.

Christians are falling in numbers more and more rapidly. A child thinks for themselves, and decides on there own that they don’t wish to believe in religion. I’m not a Christian nor am I Jewish though most of my family is. I therefore don’t see homosexuality as an abomination. And yes, sex is meant for reproduction, However, the female clitoris evolved only for sex. It does not help reproduction in anyway. Most sex in modern society is not for reproduction, but for pleasure. Even the most strict Christians, don’t have sex only for reproduction. We need to face the facts that sex is no longer just for babies, its a connection between to people, weather they be male/male, female/female, or male/female.

Morality has long been an argument of why homosexuality is looked down upon. Many people see it as strictly for pleasure, therefore immoral. If all things that are pleasurable immoral then is the very computer you are on not immoral, the T.V. you vegetate for hours in front of, is it not immoral. What about sports, and kissing. These aren’t mandatory acts for survival and reproduction. They are pleasurable and enjoyable things.

We are in a rapidly modernizing era of time. People are becoming more and more open to new things. No more are they closed minded to other peoples opinions. Though I don’t speak for everyone when I say that. Many people are still oppressing other people because of there own moral views and practices. In the 60’s during the civil rights movement, interracial marriage was seen as a ‘sin’ by the church. in the 40’s women holding prominent positions in economic and political seats was ‘immoral’. Are you saying that threw those civil rights movements, we have still learned nothing? That we still oppress people because of there beliefs and practices?

If homosexuality was harmful to people, then I might understand reasons for restricting it. But its not, in fact, people have to tell you they are homosexual before you know the are. Two consenting adults, no matter of race, sex, sexuality, or morals, should not be denied the equal rights founded under the United States constitution. Let me show you in an example why this is so. If you were straight in a community with a majority of homosexuals, and they told you that because you were different you couldn’t get married to your female counterpart, would you not protest, would you not say that all people are created equal, and that you should share the same freedoms as them? Of course you would, so don’t be a hypocrite and deny them there rights as humans. Don’t go against the fundamental rights of the constitution and tell them that they are lesser then you because of an emotion they cant control.

I want you to think about this threw the eyes of the persecuted not the persecutor. And tell me you wouldn’t strive for the same things.

[redcar]

ok i am Catholic, devout in some senses but also gay. and as from my point of view God created everyone in his own image and without flaw. he created gays and he loves us. end of.

and when you say its not natural, its only because we cant natural convieve babies, everything else about a same sex relationship is totally natural. the love is there, and that is all that matters.


There's still a choice there. No one has to be homosexual, they choose to be.

ok i am sorry that one statement has just got me angry. i didnt choose to be gay. why the fuck would i wake up one morning and say "dam i think i will decide to fancy guys so i can recieve a whole load of hardship". no one would choose that. and no one chooses their sexuality.

[kolte]

I can have kids in the future, but I'm going to adopt anyway. Why be selfesh and have a kid when there are millions of kids in china and africa that could be adopted out of there lifes of suffereing and into a life of happiness. Thats what I think anyway. But of course I'm netural when It comes to sexuality. I have fallen in love with both male and female, and I could spend the rest of my life with either sex, in a relationship, easy. However, I think I will, to do the things i want, go for a girl, just because I would like to be in polotics, and thats really not good for your image.

[~Dazed&&Confused~]

To be honest I don't believe in gay marriage... and neither does the Bible... I don't mind gay people... But I mean doin a ceremony like that In a church which doesn't believe in homosexuality is wrong...

[kolte]

To be honest I don't believe in gay marriage... and neither does the Bible... I don't mind gay people... But I mean doin a ceremony like that In a church which doesn't believe in homosexuality is wrong...

rights should be instated to protect gay rights, and rights should be instated to protect church rights. The chruch should not be forced to marry gays, however, gays should have the right to get married. In the very least, civil unions should be given to peple of all sexualities regeardless.

[MoveAlong]

...you say that if the person has this perspective about the way they feel toward the same sex, then they have no choice. But that's not true. When it comes to things like that (varieties in the human mind) you always have a choice. People who have low MAO in their brain are prone to anti-social behavior and/or extreme risk-taking. But that doesn't mean that just because you find out you have low MAO, you have to go become a cliff diver or a hermit. There's still a choice there. No one has to be homosexual, they choose to be...

If we could choose to be gay, then shouldn't we be able to choose not to be gay? You almost make homosexuality sound fake, like some kind of depressive disorder. I don't belive homosexuailty is an "anti-social behavior" or a "extrime risk". If I could start my whole life over without being gay (B.T.W I am) and never knowing I chose not to be, I would. But since I'm here and I'm queer, no uh uh. We do want to show our pride and that we are just inoccent people like straight people, but also we know we can't change it. As I read in Highlights (lil while ago) that if one can't get what they desire, one tries to convince him/herself that it's not worth having. And based on that, I can determine that since we have something and we can't get rid of it, we to convince ourselfs that it is WORTH having, so we better be gay about gay. The people in my science fiction club are weirder and more far out than gay people! And I would never choose to be gay, because why would I put myself through the hastle of coming out to not only everybody I know, but to myself, AND having to be shut out by most of our country. Would you choose to go through this hastle? I ask you.

[MoveAlong]

I would of posted more on my last post in here but I posted that at school.
This is a long post, lots of quoting, please read it, do not just blotch it out in your mind. Not trying to spoil the drama or impact by putting this anywhere else in this post I want to let the readers know I am very tired, as it is past midnight in Arizona. I've tryed my best with this post and some things may be jumbled up, but I've looked it over as much as I could and I think I did at least good.
[]
It would upset the very balance of nature. I'm sorry, but it does. The fact of the matter is that two people of the same gender cannot have a baby together. Not in the natural way. And so how can it be natural for two people of the same gender to be together in that way, or to have a family? Whatever you say about free rights and such is true, but it still goes against not only my faith as a Christian, but my logic as a person. It just doesn't work naturally, and so it creates complications for the couple, for their families, for any children that they want to adopt later on down the road. It's not natural and its not meant to be.

How is one mother raising one child a family? It's kind of hard to explain what a family is. Let me try something you said: Family is supposed to be secure, stable, dependent, comforting...
I live in an apartment with one cat, one mom, and a lot of bamboo plants that are alive and healthy. I feel secure, stable, dependent, and conforted.
[]

The bible would not be a valid argument in a country that gives freedom of religion, true. But it would explain why so many people are opposed to it.
I'm--sorry? What? Here's what I got out of that: "The bible...would explain why so many people are opposed to it". {Lol} Using "it" confuses me. Please explain.
[]

But no one can argue with that fact that two women or two men cannot produce children together. The sexual act, though quite pleasureable, is mainly for the reproducing of children. A man and a man cannot perform the sexual act in the way that it was meant to be performed. Same thing with a woman and a woman. So if relationships were meant to be between two people of any gender, then why are we made the way we are?
This one kind of stumped me...Any help here people? Hey koler you sound good for the job, but it doesn't pay in money.
[]

Relationships were meant to start with courtship (now called dating, I guess), and then marriage, and then sexual intercourse for the creation of children. Two people of the same gender cannot create children, so why wait until marriage to have sexual intercourse? This leads to the spread of diseases ( which can be spread between man and woman, don't think I'm blaming all STD's on homosexuality), etc.

~You mean romantic realationships.~ My hair dresser Janine would like to get married, but not have kids. She's straight, and rides her croch rocket (motorcycle) to work. One of the main reasons why she doesn't want to have kids is becuase she can't ride her croch rocket 90 mph down a highway without risking her kids not having a parent to see at the end of the day.
[]

But there is one thing they haven't found a way around, and that's having biological children together. If two women are "married", or are living together in a marriage like relationship, they cannot have children of their own. Yes they can't have biological children together. True, but here's what happened on the latest episode on Desprate Housewifes:
Two people wanted to adopt. They get a person already pregnant and waiting to pop. She has the baby, and they get temporary custody of the child. One day the woman lets her housekeeper go to a spa, and herself goes to a resturant while the man's working. She realises, and runs home to the baby, and hugs it, carresses it, and practices yoga with it.
Now forget the temporary custody thing. It doesn't take a biological mother to care for the baby as her own, and the biological mother can have her desision to have give her baby away.
[]

So we've found a way around all of that. Different ways of having sexual intercourse (though it cannot really be considered such), involving objects, or using condoms to prevent disease.
Condoms arn't just to prevent disease, but also to prevent having children between straight couples. It's a choice, not a duty to have kids.
[]

But there is one thing they haven't found a way around, and that's having biological children together. If two women are "married", or are living together in a marriage like relationship, they cannot have children of their own. Instead, they either have to visit a sperm bank, or enlist the help of a friend or the services of someone to donate sperm. Either way, it that child now has three parents. I even read a case where there was two men and two women who were both in gay relationships, and so one of the men and one of the women had children together. So, those children had four parents! Imagine what it would be like growing up with two moms and two dads. It's like divorce, and it's part of the reason why the world continues to go downhill. I'm not trying to offend anyone with that statement, that's just what I believe.
Well how about straight couples? What if a father can't have kids and is sterile? Maybe a mom goes to a sperm bank where they can have sperm inplanted. Three parents. OR, they adopt. Three parents. There are more straight couples adopting than gay couples.
[]

Family is supposed to be secure, stable, dependent, comforting... not confusing. In family, you have the dad to provide, the mom to care for the children (not saying that women can't work, just that the father should be the main provider).
One thing about the bible: It says something along the lines of "one shalt not sleep with a man as those people doeth the with a woman." It sounds to me like the bible is addressed to men. It also says something like "Thoust shaleth not--eth sodomise", furthering my point. And look at us the U.S. with Condi Rice in our third most poerful spot in our counrty! On to "father should be the main provider". That is simply not true. I have heard of some situations where the father is caring for the children, and the mom is the main worker.
[]

If you have two women, who's the mom and who's the dad? Or if you have two men, who should be the primary caregiver of the children? It becomes so confusing, and of course it's even harder on the children. There are no longer any distinct roles, which is part of what establishes the stability that I was talking about earlier.
One person at school asked me if I went on a date would I put make-up on. Heck no! He then said "Well there's got to be a man and a woman, right?" No. It's kind of hard and confusing to explain. (Help again, and how am I doing?) Then you go and say "it's confusing for the kids and the parents later on the road". It's that family's problem not yours. It doesn't take a man and a woman to make a family. My version of a family off the top of my head is two or more people who love each other, not exactly IN LOVE with each other.
[]
Before my conclusion, I'd like to quote something.
---The president puts their hand on the bible and swears to uphold the constitution, not on the constitution swearing to uphold the bible.

[]
You also say natural natural natural, and then some republicans acuse liberals of being hippies. Some things I just don't get about christens/republicans. You say being gay is a sin, but doesn't a sin hurt other people? Such as stealing? Stealing is far worse than loving someone. Someone gay could of been straight and helped this society by having children. That is something that I find to be kind of selfish. How a child turns out (NOT SEXUAL ORIENTATION) is determined by nurture. So how about these adopted kids. Their life could of turned out as the new Stevie Wonder if they were raised by their birth mother/father. One stolen object could of been truthfully bought and used by another person, and have benifited the other person with money or currency. That isn't selfish. It's the truth.

[kolte]

Quote:
Originally Posted by _moo_
But no one can argue with that fact that two women or two men cannot produce children together. The sexual act, though quite pleasureable, is mainly for the reproducing of children. A man and a man cannot perform the sexual act in the way that it was meant to be performed. Same thing with a woman and a woman. So if relationships were meant to be between two people of any gender, then why are we made the way we are?
This one kind of stumped me...Any help here people? Hey koler you sound good for the job, but it doesn't pay in money.

I'm not even gonna try to quote properly. Sex is more then reproduction. If that was it, then why would you stay with a partner. thats really shallow. thats like saying your only getting married to fuck. Sex is about love, and connection. I have LOVED so strongly before. I'm male, I'm bisexual. I have been in deep loved with man and woman alike. I'm not thinking, lets make babies, I'm thinking, I want to make a connection, I want to show this person that I love them so much, I'm giving myself to them. I'm exposing the very thing that is hidden from all eyes. I'm giving them me in all form. Its LOVE its CONNECTION FREEDOM and HAPPINESS. Something you don't seem to understand.

[R&b_Boy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by _moo_
But no one can argue with that fact that two women or two men cannot produce children together. The sexual act, though quite pleasureable, is mainly for the reproducing of children. A man and a man cannot perform the sexual act in the way that it was meant to be performed. Same thing with a woman and a woman. So if relationships were meant to be between two people of any gender, then why are we made the way we are?
This one kind of stumped me...Any help here people? Hey koler you sound good for the job, but it doesn't pay in money.

I'm not even gonna try to quote properly. Sex is more then reproduction. If that was it, then why would you stay with a partner. thats really shallow. thats like saying your only getting married to fuck. Sex is about love, and connection. I have LOVED so strongly before. I'm male, I'm bisexual. I have been in deep loved with man and woman alike. I'm not thinking, lets make babies, I'm thinking, I want to make a connection, I want to show this person that I love them so much, I'm giving myself to them. I'm exposing the very thing that is hidden from all eyes. I'm giving them me in all form. Its LOVE its CONNECTION FREEDOM and HAPPINESS. Something you don't seem to understand.

I understand what u saying but i'll give myself to the person i want to spend my life wit.. u feel me? not just anyboday.. but u neve know dat could change

well my view on gay marraige is this.. if they want to get married let em... but i'm not going be saying anything when the aids population goes up.. I'll tell u one thing u ain't go see me ending up wit no other gay guy.. (doing it in the butt) no no.. and just to clear things up i am not a homophobia

[kolte]

don't duble post *merges posts* god i love vbulletin...*sighs*

and by the way, if you can get aids from sex with a broad as well, so good luck on that!

[Bobby]

Back onto the topic. Gay marriage is not something that I agree with, but if other people want to do it, then hell with it.

[kolte]

why don't you agree with it?

[~Dazed&&Confused~]

As the Bible doesn't agree with it..

[kolte]

But the bible says nothing against "gay marriage" just homo. sex.

[Whisper]

As the Bible doesn't agree with it..

Bahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
The bible dosen't agree with masturbation
are you gonna stop wackin off now?
Exactly so think befor you speak

Theres NOTHING wrong with gays or gay marrige
I'm proud to say its legal in Canada on the Federal level
and the majority of provinces
with more legalizing it all the time

[~Dazed&&Confused~]

if God wanted homosexuality he would of made Adam and Adam...

[kolte]

dude....you jack off, you look at women lustlfully, you judge, you hate people, how are you gonna say that out of all the things you break out of the bible that you are against gay marriage.

[Whisper]

if God wanted homosexuality he would of made Adam and Adam...

First of all Adam & Steve would have been able to create over 6 billion humans about as much as adam and eve would have been
That story is a load of crap invented hundreds of years ago to help idiots feel more secure
Nobody likes unanswered questions
We evolved you dumbass, fuckin cults

Second of all if you look at the animal kingdom homosexuality is rather common

Third of all they say people that fear and hate gays do so because there not comftorable and or sure with there own sexuality so they attack innocent people to try and cover up there own insecuritys


Let he whos without sin throw the first stone
bitch!

[kolte]

You don't understand how awsome it is to have you back in the debate fourm cody, high five lol. *extends hand into the air*

[Whisper]

-high five-
good to be back
gay bashers -shakes head-

[kolte]

meh, i guess its not that there gay bashers, because most arent.
but its the fact that they don't understand....and don't want to.
they have this misunderstanding that homosexuality is about lust, and its not.
its about love, and partnership.
just like heterosexuality.
people will, one day, reolize how irrelevent gay marriage is to there livelihood, but untill then, we have to accept that we live in a narrow minded world.
we must work to educate people in open mindedness, and accetptence.
only then, will we be able to live in peace, as far as sexuality is concerned.

[R&b_Boy]

We will never be at peace, Kolte.. if the world had no people there would be peace lol, lol. There are too many ignorant people out there and they won't except shit!!

[kolte]

no. we will never reach peace.
but that doesnt mean we cant strive for it.
the more we try to acheive peace, the closer we get.

[Whisper]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/s/T/prowarsign1.jpg


~~~~~~~~~~~
don't make this about war
this is about gay marriage

[kolte]

nobody made it about war but you.
just because i said peace doesnt mean i was reffering to war.
they really have nothing to do with each other in the context we were using it in.

[R&b_Boy]

uh uh ... yep.. ur right

[kolte]

try not to post just random bits of agreement.
it just gets on my nerves a bit when you get like, yup, i agree, in a post and thats it.
thanx.

when i refere to peace, i mean on just....well, everything peace.
peace with yourself.
and peace with others.