Is this abuse? Please help :(

[SapphireDragon13]

Well, over the past few years my parents have been arguing alot, and it always seems to have something to do with either my dad wanting to have sex with my mom and her not wanting to, or my dad not having enough control over his life [he controls HIS life, as well as attempts at controlling EVERYONE ELSE in it].

It all started one night when I was trying to sleep, because I had school the next day, and I overheard my parents arguing in their bedroom. At first Dad was yelling about work and stuff, and then... I heard him saying that his life would be sooo much better if he had more control over his life. He said that he was tired of everything at home because nothing ever went his way [yet at the same time, he has more sh*t than anyone else in the family, and buys stuff that he wants whether we can afford it or not]. A little while after that, I heard him saying, sort of quietly, that he wanted her to have sex with him, but she said she didn't want to, and he made a big deal out of it. If i remember right, it was something similar to, "Why won't you have sex with me? If you won't have sex with me, then I guess it just means that you don't care about/love me. It must just mean that I'm nothing to you." [He said this after they've been married for almost 20 years, and I think that if she truely didn't care she would have left by now.] And then Mom said, "There is a difference between loving someone and just wanting to have sex with them. There is more to a relationship than sex."

After this arguement [that was just the small portion that I remember clearly], their relationship seemed to become worse and worse [although, looking back, I think it's been bad all along and I didn't notice it until recently.] They began getting in more and more arguments like the one state above, and they started growing farther and farther apart [even though the only people who have really noticed are the few that are close to them, mostly close to my mom]. A little while later, he started getting in arguements with me over absolutely NOTHING...

A few months ago, on the way home from Wal*Mart, Dad randomly started yelling at me because I broke a pair of headphones and bought a new pair while we were in town [they don't make headphones as good as they used to...?] and said it was all my fault that they were broken and that I need to take better care of my stuff. He also said that he was tired of spending his money on useless stuff that I break all the time. [Facts that I'll include are that I take responsibility for the fact that the headphones were broken, but they were crap in the first place, and I paid for the new headphones with money that I got for my birthday from my grandma.] Doesn't it seem completely immature for an adult to randomly start something like this? And a couple weeks after this arguement, he threatened to take away my phone, driving permit, and internet because I was doing my homework [There was alot that night.] , and I continued doing my homework instead of letting the dog out when he asked, because homework was my priority at the time. The next day, being the total [email protected]$$ that he is, he took the computer modem and the internet was screwed. He also took my hair straightener [I don't use it AT ALL so what was the point in that?].

Another example of his immaturity was one night at dinner. We were eating at the dining room table, and I, being completely pissed off at him for being an @$$hole, was ignoring him, so he told me that if I didn't like living with him, I should just leave [the house]. This, by the way, was an idiotic statement, because I'm technically considered a minor so it wouldn't be legal for me to leave anyway. At this point, I basically told him that I didn't want to have anything to do with him and that I was tired of putting up with the way he treats me [and the rest of our family]. Since then, me and Dad are as far apart as ever, and at the same time, Mom is farther from him, also, because she thinks he had no right to treat me that way either.

I've also suggested to Mom that they should get a divorce, because I think he abuses her, not as much physically as mentally and emotionally. He treats us all like sh*t, and acts like we're just here to do whatever he wants us to do... like puppets? He keeps Mom up most nights trying to convince her to have sex with him, and when she doesn't he acts like a total @$$ until she agrees.

Please help, I don't know what to think anymore. Does anyone have any suggestions? Opinions? I'll take anything at this point. :(

~Jenelle

[Sapphire]

It is very frustrating for both partners if there is a significant difference in sex drives. Yes, sex isn't the only thing that relationships are about. But, it is still important - regardless of how long they have been together - and your dad is evidently feeling hurt, rejected and unloved by the lack of sexual contact with your mum. This is not uncommon and shouldn't be judged too harshly.
The way he deals with it (trying to "convince her") is harmful for their relationship as it will result in even more bad feeling. So, yes, he is being abusive towards her.

I do not agree with you urging your mum to divorce your dad. Whatever the state if their relationship, it is theirs to address. If she leaves him then it has to be her choice. And it certainly should not be because one of her children have told her to.

I think how he is with you isn't right. It does seem to mirror how he feels about a number of things in connection with the state of things in the family home/environment though. Frustrating as it is, you have to find a way to deal with these situations as they arise.

[SapphireDragon13]

It isn't like I randomly suggested to my mom to get a divorce, she was the one that mentioned it to me first. I'm mostly trying to be supportive of her, but the reason why she doesn't want to at the moment is because she doesn't know what Dad will do if she does. At the same time, she wants to because she wants to go to college and he is holding her back. She has said numerous times before that she's tired of him... I don't understand why she would agonize staying with him just for the sake of staying with him.

A side note that I didn't mention before was that soon before or after I was born, Dad cheated on Mom, but they stayed together and eventually had my younger brother 8 years ago. Does anyone think this is right for him to do? I mean, she's said before that she's forgiven him, but whether she has or not, she can't say it didn't hurt her any.

[Sapphire]

It wasn't right for him to cheat on her all those years ago and of course it would really have hurt her. But, it's in the past and they seem to have dealt with it and moved on.

The reason she is "staying with him just for the sake of staying with him" can probably be put down to one or a combination of reasons. Such as:
1. She still loves him.
2. She knows that he still loves her.
3. She doesn't want to put you and your siblings through divorce.
4. She is intimidated by the thought of being on her own as a single parent.

[SapphireDragon13]

... It isn't that simple though.

1. She's told me that she doesn't love him anymore and she's completely tired of all the shit he does.
2. He doesn't love her, he's just controlling her and trying to force her to have sex with him.
3. She's only worried about how my younger brother might take it because she knows that I can't stand him and wouldn't be hurt any.
4. She isn't really intimidated at this point, she's just trying to be financially stable enough to support both of us and herself.

[Sapphire]

There is going to be a reason as to why they aren't divorced. Whether you can see it or not doesn't affect it's existence.

[SapphireDragon13]

I'm not sure, but I think I just stated why they are still together. At this point, the only reason why Mom ISN'T getting a divorce with him is because she isn't financially independent enough to support my brother and me. That is exactly what she told me, and exactly what she's been saying for quite a while now [on an internet forum other than this one]. Something else that I should probably mention is that I'm more worried about her than myself, because dad abuses her mentally and emotionally to get her to do whatever he wants. He doesn't do anything to help around the house, because my mom and I do everything. I do my part, but she does so much more than I do [mostly my brother and I take care of ourselves but she has to take care of the other child--my dad]. And, she's told me that she thinks he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder [it's kind of complicated and I dont really feel like explaining, so if you don't know what it is, Google it :) lol].

[Clawhammer]

My concern is about your little brother. I'd say that you should help get him through this as much as you can. I've gathered that he is pretty young, so he probably needs someone to help get him through rough times. My advice is keep your friends close.

[Sapphire]

I'm not sure, but I think I just stated why they are still together....Something else that I should probably mention is that I'm more worried about her than myself, because dad abuses her mentally and emotionally to get her to do whatever he wants.
You said in your first post that she still cares about him, otherwise she would have left him by now. Yet, you have contradicted this in later posts. The former is more likely to be correct. You cannot live married to someone for 20 years without still loving them.

From what you have said so far, his attitude isn't harmful enough to warrant so much worry. His pressuring her into sex isn't really abuse. I mean, it can be seen as abusive because it is damaging for their relationship, but it's not actual abuse.
And have I missed something huge here? Because apart from the trying to convince her to have sex, I can't see how any of his other behaviours can be seen as abuse.

He does sound like a bit of a handful, but it doesn't actually sound like Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). Especially as aloofness and avoidance of intimacy are characteristics of NPD.

[SapphireDragon13]

You said in your first post that she still cares about him, otherwise she would have left him by now. Yet, you have contradicted this in later posts. The former is more likely to be correct. You cannot live married to someone for 20 years without still loving them.

From what you have said so far, his attitude isn't harmful enough to warrant so much worry. His pressuring her into sex isn't really abuse. I mean, it can be seen as abusive because it is damaging for their relationship, but it's not actual abuse.
And have I missed something huge here? Because apart from the trying to convince her to have sex, I can't see how any of his other behaviours can be seen as abuse.

He does sound like a bit of a handful, but it doesn't actually sound like Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). Especially as aloofness and avoidance of intimacy are characteristics of NPD.

Sorry, I've left out a lot of the details, because I didn't want my first post to be wayy too long. My mom told me that basically, she isn't going to put up with him anymore, and that she has put up with him longer than she ever planned to [she wants to care about him, but she just doesn't care anymore]. She also told me that she is planning on getting a divorce, because she is tired of the way he acts--whenever anyone doesn't do what he wants, he throws a huge temper tantrum just so he can get his way, and he expects everyone else to do what he wants [kind of like he's more important than everyone else]. He also acts like the world revolves around him--whenever he wants to do something, he just does it whether he realizes its wrong or not, because he thinks rules don't apply to him [kind of like there can be dire consequences for everyone else, but he's 'different' so he shouldn't get in trouble for the same things everyone else does]. He also has a tendency to act all nice and caring about people he just met [to win them over], but after he 'knows' that they'll follow him he treats them like sh*t. It may not be an extreme form of NPD, but it's enough to realize if you're in direct contact with him over extended periods of time.

By the way, to whoever asked, my younger brother is 8, and I'm ready to do anything I can to help him through the likely divorce, even if that means giving up sports to get a job.

[byee]

This is a difficult situation, I can understand your concerns! First, though, I think you have to clarify the boundaries here with your mom. Eventhough you're exposed to a lot of dysfunction, i think it's your mom's role to keep things safe and to take care of you and your brother. It sounds like she's (understandably) stressed and needs some support, but by taking you into her confidences so much, there's an uncomfortable role reversal here that benefits neither of you (or your brother). Id help mom stay on her side there and get support from her peers, or by taking some action. It's understandable that she's got some financial concerns which might motivate her, but that's an adult issue, and frankly, one that's used more as an excuse for inaction. Your mom sounds like she cannot let go here, and she might need to look into herself for the answer, not to you.

Help your mom see what's going on in a very observational way, how it affects you and your brother, and let her figure out what to do. Try to avoid counselling or consoling her, she needs to take action here, not get support from you.

[SapphireDragon13]

She would turn to her friends for help, but my dad, being a total @$$hole, has driven all of her friends away, and the ones that are still semi-close live too far away to keep in touch with easily. Basically, she chose to turn to me... because I'm the closest thing to a friend that she has at the moment, and I don't want to let her down. She hasn't really talked me into agreeing with her at all, I just find it easier to see from her perspective than from Dad's.

Jacob knows absolutely nothing about the situation, though, and I think that he should if our parents are probably going to get a divorce. I mostly only think this because of stuff that I read on the internet though, because most of the statistics say that it's less stressful for young children to go through a divorce when their parents tell them about it before hand, rather than getting a divorce and THEN telling them because it's a huge shock to most kids. I don't really want him to go through it that way though.

By the way, Sam, she does take care of us, although Dad does basically nothing to help. Also, she and Dad work together, but she does basically all the work [my parents are self-employed], so indirectly [or possibly just directly], she is pretty much providing for our family, as well as doing most of the work around the house AND taking care of the three of us [Jacob, Dad, and me]. I don't know what Jacob and I would do without her, and I have no idea what Dad is going to do once he's on his own...

Does anyone have any more suggestions? I'm really confused about how things are going at the moment, and at this point, I have no idea what to do or how to continue living my life.

Thanks,

Jenelle

[byee]

I think uncertainty is part of this, unfortunately. I'm not sure what you can do, other than help your mom see what her choices are and what is actually going on, clarification is about the only thing I can think of doing, and coming up with some kind of startegy or plan to address the dysfunction.

With regards to Jacob, I think he needs to be kept in the same loop as you and mom, all you guys need to address and acknowledge what's going on, how awful it is, and the uncertainty. Unless and until your mom decides to leave, that doesn't need to be brought up just yet.

[Sapphire]

From one who has been in a similar situation to you, she should not be confiding in you like this. She has friends that she could talk with over the phone if meeting in person isn't always possible. They are who she should be turning to.

With time you may gain some insight into your dad's view of all of this. The only reason you don't at the moment is because he isn't talking with you about it and it is the better way for a parent to behave. When one parent confides in their child like this it can really screw up the relationship that child has with the other parent by giving them a very biased view of things.

Your mum's issues with your father are hers. Not yours. The issues between you and him mirror those of normal parent-teenager relatonships. These are the ones that you shoud be concerning yourself with.

Sorry if my conviction has irritated or angered you, but I have learnt all of this the hard way.
My mum confided in me about my dad and their relationship. The things I heard made me really angry with dad and I refused to see him on a number of occasions. However, with time I realised that there's always two sides to every story. We have slowly developed a good relationship again.
Don't let this happen with you too.

[SapphireDragon13]

I think the reason why Mom doesn't want to turn to her friends is that the friends that ARE close enough to talk to in person go to church with her, and she feels like they'll look down on her as a Christian if she divorces Dad. She also says that she doesn't want God to be mad at her for divorcing him either, because she thinks that it could be considered a sin. But she also thinks, at the same time, that He [God] wouldn't want her to stay in a relationship like this, not only because she doesn't feel any attraction to him anymore, but also because he manipulates her feelings and opinions so that she ends up feeling like she's less important than he is. She says that she can't stand living like this anymore, and that she doesn't know how soon, but she's probably going to divorce him before she goes back to college.

A few other details that haven't been mentioned, is that for the past couple years whenever Dad and I are alone, like in the car and stuff, he always complains about Mom and says that she's holding him back, but in reality I think it's the other way around. It's seriously like he's trying to get me to choose a side between either him or moms, but I think it would be more responsible to take Mom's side because she's much more responsible and reliable, although I am currently choosing to be semi-neutral. I think Dad is also trying to get Jacob to choose him over Mom, because he takes him to major league baseball games in the summer [as well as other things of the sort]. Jacob really likes doing these things, because he loves sports, especially baseball, but I think Dad is just trying to win him over... Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Jenelle

[byee]

Jenelle, I think you might encourge your mom to talk with the minister about all this, he might be of some assistance. Or, you might even speak with him. I think you guys need some outside help here, and if she's identified with the Church, then the mininster might be the way to go.

With regard to your dad's trying to win you and Jacob over, you might try telling him how stressful this whole situation is for you guys, and how much you need him to try to work it out with mom differently than he is. Often, when adults get caught up in their own unhappiness, they forget that it's also public, and that the public displays of that unhappiness has a stongly negative affect on everyone else (you and Jacob). Maybe if you point that out to him he might realize how his behavior is affecting everyone else and do something about it. However, do NOT take sides, he is not looking for an objective opinion here, he's looking for reinforcement for his position/opinion, and if he doesn't get it, he's likely to feel provoked.


Remain neutral, but offer up observations and options that he might not be able to see right now. And get mom to the minister, and consider going yourself.

[SapphireDragon13]

Mom has talked to our pastor, and he is supportive of her wanting to get her Masters degree in college, and he, out of what I understand, also thinks that things will be alright if she gets a divorce with Dad. He also thinks that Dad is being controlling in some ways [Mom and Dad are going to a missions trip in Mexico next week, and Dad almost had a temper tantrum when he found out that he wasnt rooming with Mom...]. Dad also said that if he didn't get to room with her, then he just wouldn't go [I think that was just an idle threat though].

I guess... I'm just a little confused about the situation. Not really because I don't understand what's going on, but I don't get what the purpose is for Mom and Dad to be together when they both complain about eachother constantly, and if they have so many problems with eachother, why do they even bother staying together? I guess I'm just sick of everything at the moment...

Well, I don't really know what to say or think, but if anyone has any more suggestions, I'd love to hear your opinions. :)

~Jenelle

[ECGBUnni]

wow.

unfortunately, i have to disagree with whoever said that this wasn't "really" abuse. Anyone that acts in a manner where a person's emotional or physical health is in danger, is an abuser in some sense. It's obvious that your father is abusing your mother in some way. To pressure someone to have sex when they don't want to is never a good sign, especially after 20 years of marriage.

What worries me the most is the obsessive control issues. It's clear to me that his control issues are far from normal, and this compulsion to control is a dangerous character trait. As much as I don't like encouraging families to split up, it may actually be physically and emotionally safer in the long run to leave your father. Dominating behavior like that can all too easily lead to physical abuse and worse emotional abuse.

Your mother seems like a strong woman who has a lot of faith in God. I will make sure that she is in my prayers and that she will come out of this stronger than before. The world needs more women who can stand up for what they know is best for them and their family.

I also want to commend you. You seem to be taking this huge emotional roller-coaster ride with a grace that I envy on all levels. I am lucky to have a very stable family with two parents that love me my brother and each other. I could never imagine living without that support. Keep up the good work, and remember that in the end, your mother is an adult and you are technically the child. Things work out a lot better in the end, and that it's your right as a youth to live a little bit and let the adults fix things for you.

If you ever need someone just to listen to, PM me or IM me or whatever

[SapphireDragon13]

Thank you :) ... It makes me feel better to know that people care.

[ECGBUnni]

thats why we're here :)

[SapphireDragon13]

Sorry that I haven't been on, Dad took the computer modem for basically no reason and I didn't have a connection to the internet for a couple of days.

~Jenelle

[Sapphire]

Trying to teach you to be tidier, maybe?

Just let him get on with it. It's not going to be easy, but until your mum leaves him you can't get away from him.

[ECGBUnni]

just remember, without a negative, there can never be a positive. So after such a negative, there should be a huge positive coming :)

[SapphireDragon13]

I know there isn't a positive coming... ... because it hasn't been positive for as long as I can remember. And as for him to be trying to teach me to be more tidy, would definately make him a hypocrite. He lets about 10+ glasses collect on his dresser in his bedroom, and they don't get taken care of until my mom or myself takes care of it.

[ECGBUnni]

i am a world class pessimist, but i also know that there's a certain duality in the world, and eventually, things will get better. perhaps not in the immediate future, but things will work out.

have faith in the future, after all, your father can never take that away from you

[SapphireDragon13]

Well.. . .. he could take away my future if he really wanted to.. .. .. I'm sure he wouldn't regret it any. :(

[Strength]

If she never intends to have sex with him ever again i guess she dosent love him.:yes:

[Sapphire]

If she never intends to have sex with him ever again i guess she dosent love him.:yes:
How immensely short sighted and typically male...:rolleyes:

[Halibut]

no the way he is treating you is not right. have you tried confronting him about it? may i suggest that you ask your mom for family councilling.even if your dad does not go . you and your mom can learn to cope and deal with it or get him to stop! because asking your mom to get a divorce is wrong. first she needs to confront the issue before ending it

[SapphireDragon13]

I didn't directly ask her to get a divorce, she said she probably would.. ... and I sort of tried encouraging her to do so... She has tried to get him to stop, but he doesn't listen. All he cares about is himself, and nothing, or anybody, else.

And to jack, there are many more things involving love than sex or anything involved in it.

~Jenelle