Religious crisis!

[Jean Poutine]

This will probably be a long rant. I just don't know what to do with faith anymore.

Today I went to a party my mom's friends were throwing. Well my mom and her friends are all like 60+ and rabid Catholics (save for my mom). So obviously their party was actually thrown by Knights of Columbus and we were invited to attend. Being ambivalent about religion and wondering if the Catholic Church's strong arm also twists arms, I didn't want to go first. But the desire of not leaving my mom alone won and I went.

Knights of Columbus sure know how to throw a party. Or maybe just Québécois do. Even with all the contempt I usually have for French Canadians, I must admit our parties really are fun. Québécois are usually really close knit even with strangers and even with my usual awkwardness I felt right at home. I love Québécois folkloric songs and that's all we play in Christmas parties. In fact I nearly bursted into tears because the spirit of brotherhood was so strong (yeah I know I'm a sensitive sucker with a shell). I couldn't help but smile, even as withdrawn as I usually am.

Anyhow, where does religion come into that? Well, the Knights of Columbus is a Catholic organisation. And seeing everyone happy there, at the party, all of them Catholics made me think : perhaps my way is not the true one? Would I be happier if I had a crutch to fall on again?

I say again 'cause newsflash : I was Catholic. Technically I still am since I never bothered to ask for aposthasia. But yeah, I was a practicing one. I refused to go to Church 'cause it's almost akin to worshipping idols. But I do have all the tools : baptism, first communion, confirmation, etc. Heck until I was 16 I was constantly thinking about priesthood. And since I'm Catholic, priesthood means I leave everything behind (not that I actually have much to leave behind). But you know what I was back then? I was happy. Honest to goodness, I wish my faith never had waivered. Sure perhaps to some I was some near-sighted dick who liked to read the Bible at lunch time if he had nothing better to do. And yeah, I always stood for what I believed in Morals class. But eventually I got pwned on the big scales of things and I turned to rampant nihilism. What's that world for? What good it is? What kind of God would put humanity through such an ordeal? All-loving my ass!

The logical conclusion here is that God may not exist. I say "may" because I'm an insecure pussy.

But you know what all of this made me realise? My religious upbringing is still a part of me. My morals are extremely close to the Christian right. Yeah I'm rabidly pro-life. Yeah I believe in abstinence. And yes, I believe in traditional gender roles although I'm more willing to make concessions on this one. The one thing I don't believe in is proselytising. I believe in choice on that matter.

I would like to join a group of like-minded people. I want to relive the spirit of brotherhood, union and community I had at that party. I want to be a part of something.

But not of the Catholic Church. I do not identify with it anymore. As right-wing and neocon as I am, the Church is even more right wing and neocon than I am.

Which leads to an anecdote. I did a college project on the English community in Québec City when I was still in my old major. What is more English than the Anglican church? So I e-mailed the resident minister in the Quebec parish (who doesn't work here anymore...too bad...he was definitively a cool guy) and he invited me over at Sunday mass...and asked me if I knew a person that was my English literature teacher. lol, so she joined us later to eat, xD. Anyway, I learned from that religion is not as stuck up as I thought it was. In fact, Anglicans are pretty damn chill. What threw me away from religion is all the elitist bullshit Catholics spew around. And I had a minister here who paid me lunch and joked about working one day a week!

And the same spirit of brotherhood, I felt it in this small Québec City church before. I was a dyed in the wool French-speaking Québécois and the only thing me and the rest of the church had in common was our province. Yet I was welcomed with open arms. You know who would never do that? French-speaking Catholics.

Furthermore, I want a friend, a crutch. I've been alone too long. Perhaps if I were alone with God I'd be less unhappy. But I just can't bring myself to believe fully in God. To trust him. I have problems with trust and my past experiences with religion denied me the luxury of blind faith.

I don't know what I should do. A religious community feels perfect for me. This is more of a rant than anything else, but feel free to offer advice/comment if you've ever been through this.

However, I think that tonight, for the first time in 2 years...I'll try to pray.

[Burnthecity]

this is one rant alright, well heres my 2 cents
im a cathloic and well i dont even think i believe in God, i belive that their is a high power in the world, i dont know what it is, and i dont know if its God or not, but everyone has their on beliefs, i totaly agree with you though, wanting to belong, a church group would be a good experience for you, you might find yourself believing in God alot more after this,
well theres my 2 cents, if it didnt make sence im sorry its 2am and im havin a bad night, just thought id give you my 2 cents since you helped me out earlier, thanks man
well hope it helpped

[Raynes]

Just wanting to be part of something, isn't a good reason to go Christian. There is pretty much never a good reason to go Christian. It seems to me you just feel empty, my recommendation, is for you to begin studying religions, study whats behind Christianity from a non-Christian perspective, you might just find several reasons to give it up. I know I did, there is a lot average people don't know about Christianity and it's variations. At the very least you could call yourself well studied, and if you do decide become Christian you'll be able to help yourself in religious debates. (not much but at least you wont have to look stupid like the people who just scream GAWD EXISTSZES) But before jumping in anything, research, learn, and when you feel ready, decide your beliefs. That's what I did. Good luck!

-Rayne

[byee]

I like you , Jason. Not only do you use big words correctly, but you really care a lot, that's whay you think so much. There's definitely hope for you.

I think you confuse religion (or perhaps most accurately, organized religion) with faith. The two are different. Religion has a very bad rep b/c it often seems like a prohibitive list of 'don'ts' and threats. And then there's the Cecil B. Demille quality to the Bible itself. For many 'thinkers', it's all a little too unbelieveable and over the top. That's why there's faith. It's more abstract and pure, we don't need all the Hollywood stuff, nor do we respond to threats and intimidation and all that 'hell and damnation' stuff. Maybe that's what you're responding to, the apparent dichotomy b'twn what you need and what's out there in organized religion.

Part of what I've said to you elsewhere is valid here, too. You'd do so well just getting out there and exploring and experiencing different things in different contexts without thinking so much about them. That's what you did by going to the K of C party, you just went (eventhough you had those doubts). And, it gave you a different perspective. That's what you need.

Why not get out there, explore different ways of experiencing faith (or whatever else it is you're looking for). Having a sense of belonging isn't a crutch, it's not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of your humanity.

[Hyper]

Just wanting to be part of something, isn't a good reason to go Christian. There is pretty much never a good reason to go Christian. It seems to me you just feel empty, my recommendation, is for you to begin studying religions, study whats behind Christianity from a non-Christian perspective, you might just find several reasons to give it up. I know I did, there is a lot average people don't know about Christianity and it's variations. At the very least you could call yourself well studied, and if you do decide become Christian you'll be able to help yourself in religious debates. (not much but at least you wont have to look stupid like the people who just scream GAWD EXISTSZES) But before jumping in anything, research, learn, and when you feel ready, decide your beliefs. That's what I did. Good luck!

-Rayne

Careful your really bordering on political correctness

I can clearly see that your bashing but lets just keep it at my opinion.


Jason.. Well every human wants to belong and have like minded individuals surrounding them.. I think you should just try what you feel is right. Nobody can make you believe in something and nobody can force you to stay & participate if things go wrong..

Following an old classic: You got nothing to loose!

So go try whatever feels right to you..

[Raynes]

I'm not bashing anything. I'm very sorry it seemed that way. most of my friends are Christian I'm just trying to help him fill the spot that is missing, without deciding on a whim to start going to Church and reblasting himself with that belief system. I will bash Christians who don't even understand what they believe. I don't like people who believe in something they have never taken the time to study. Those are the ones who defend their religions by getting offensive. This doesn't just apply to Christianity. I'm afraid I should have worded my post more clearer. But by the wording of his post, it seemed he feels as if a spot is empty inside him, and he is thinking that joining the Church, and being a part of something, would fill said spot. I was merely trying to help him not take careless actions. Researching this religion, and other religions is the best thing anyone can do. There is a lot of history behind everyone of them. As we all know, none of us can know which is right, so it's really our decision what we want to believe in. But a lot of people think we somehow don't have this choice. I have a lot of things against Christians. But I don't hate them, nor would I bash them. I'm sorry if I jumped the gun. I hope this post, helps you understand the meaning of my post.

-Rayne

[Jean Poutine]

Researching this religion, and other religions is the best thing anyone can do.
Don't worry, I know my religion, and I know about most other denominations too.

I'm not one to be impulsive.

[thesphinx]

You don't have to be a part of a religion to be close to god, I fully believe that god is too big for one religion.
So if you believe there is room for god in your life let him in, you don't have to get to god through your church or anyone else for that matter.
And that doesn't me you couldn't be friends with people in other religions or beliefs, I have friends with many different beliefs and we get along fine.
I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Hyper]

I'm not bashing anything. I'm very sorry it seemed that way. most of my friends are Christian I'm just trying to help him fill the spot that is missing, without deciding on a whim to start going to Church and reblasting himself with that belief system. I will bash Christians who don't even understand what they believe. I don't like people who believe in something they have never taken the time to study. Those are the ones who defend their religions by getting offensive. This doesn't just apply to Christianity. I'm afraid I should have worded my post more clearer. But by the wording of his post, it seemed he feels as if a spot is empty inside him, and he is thinking that joining the Church, and being a part of something, would fill said spot. I was merely trying to help him not take careless actions. Researching this religion, and other religions is the best thing anyone can do. There is a lot of history behind everyone of them. As we all know, none of us can know which is right, so it's really our decision what we want to believe in. But a lot of people think we somehow don't have this choice. I have a lot of things against Christians. But I don't hate them, nor would I bash them. I'm sorry if I jumped the gun. I hope this post, helps you understand the meaning of my post.

-Rayne

What we really have is the freedom to choose what FEELS RIGHT to us logically & un-explainably.

Anyway good luck Jason :P

[Raynes]

I'm against ignorance, not free will. It is anyone's choice to believe what they want to believe, and it's my choice to try to help them not ruin their lives with religions like Christianity, simply by encouraging them to learn. I don't try to convert, or ridicule them for their beliefs, I just try to help educate them in what they believe. Because most of the time they don't even know what they believe. Most of us are taught to believe in god straight from the womb, which doesn't give us a chance to see there is more to life than Churches and God. I live in the bible belt, I know better than anyone. Everyone should have a good, honest, unbiased choice in what they believe, they shouldn't have to be afraid of going to hell, or things going wrong in their life if they even think of other religions. The limitations are there for order, but they only cause chaos.

Sorry to hijack this thread with my opinions, good luck with whatever you do Jason.

-Rayne

[MisterAndrews]

it's my choice to try to help them not ruin their lives with religions like Christianity, simply by encouraging them to learn. I don't try to convert, or ridicule them for their beliefs, I just try to help educate them in what they believe. Because most of the time they don't even know what they believe.

It's quite the contrary over here in England. I'm Catholic and I think that God does not ruin lives. Only you can tell yourself what you believe in, and NO-ONE else can educate you in your beliefs, because they are what makes you, you. You, and ONLY you can ever know what you truly believe.

The point of christianity is to spread the word of God as CHRIST intended, and it is wrong to think that it takes over your life, or that it is in some way wrong, which is what Rayne seems to be bend on telling everyone. I don't mind telling you that I am actually quite offended by the stream of attacks on christianity, but I think that you miss the point of the religion. Whislt different denominations have certain rules (i will admit, i do not whole heartedly agree with some), the Main or 'golden rule' is LOVE ONE ANOTHER, AS I HAVE LOVED YOU. That is the heart of christianity as christ himself explained.

So, R.E. lesson aside, I think you should do some practical experimentation of different lifestyles and approaches to see you you feel living with different religions. BUT always remember.... You control your spiritualality. Your spirituality does not control you.

-Good Luck!- :-)



EDIT:: 'TheSphinxs' made a good point about letting God into your life. Spending sometime alone to pray, or just clear your head and be close to God is brilliant, and can be more affective then just relying on church!

EDIT:: Catholicism is obviously very different over there than it is in England, and I think that we all need to remember that you do not have to agree with everything your religion teaches... that is impossible. It's best to find one that you generally believe in!

[Raynes]

I think you're missing the point. Without Christianity, you wouldn't have to worry about everything you do, you wouldn't have to think twice about breathing simply because you might go to hell for it. Everyone chooses their own path, that's what I've been trying to stress for this entire thread. You don't have to choose Christianity just to fit in, or just because everyone else is doing it, or your family might be mad otherwise. I know exactly what Christianity is, that's why I left it behind me, that was my choice, believe what you want to believe, because atheists, luciferians, wiccans, and finally Christians, believe what they want to believe. That's the whole point of religion. All I'm saying is while you're believing what you want to believe, why not look around and check out what you're believing, and see if it really really makes sense too you. Because it didn't to me, and still doesn't today. If it does to you, then okay, that's your choice. For the final, and last time, this is my last post in this thread. I'm not bashing Christianity, and if you're offended by what I say, that's your own problem.

-Rayne

[MisterAndrews]

I know you said that it was your last post, but what makes you think that christians think they are going to hell for doing the slightest thing? We believe that if we are TRULY sorry then God will forgive us and we will go to heaven.... hell is for those who cannot feel truly sorry. I don't know where you got this idea of God damning everyone to hell, but in christianity it is not like that at all.... i think your research was wrong, maybe?

[Raynes]

I think you're over analyzing my words. And you just gave me my biggest point. It's a guild ridden religion. I don't think it's ethical to feel guilty if you make a mistake. Or if you do something wrong. If you really had free will, you wouldn't feel guilty about what you do, simply because there is some judge standing behind your back watching over your shoulder. Doing good should be your choice, not your only option. Do good die go to heaven. Do bad die go to hell. And I'd like to point out that your way of thinking is comical. Do bad beg for forgiveness, go to heaven. That pretty much gives you the right to do anything you want, murder, drugs, and last time I checked with a church, watching movies with nudity and harsh language in them are sins as well. So you can do all those and STILL go this beautiful heaven, as long as you beg for forgiveness with all of your heart. That is the stupidest shit I've ever heard of.

I guess if you continue replying I will as well until they decide to either move this to the debate forum or close it.

[Jean Poutine]

I chose to attach my faith to the general idea of a higher power, instead of a particular denomination.

I never felt at ease with organised religion and simply meant to give it another try. I eventually decided against.

[Raynes]

Good for you man. I'm proud of you. :D

[MisterAndrews]

To Raynes, i think you missed the point on the forgiveness remark and you obviously are extremely closed minded and critical when it comes to christianity. I would prefer if you didnt call peoples religious beliefs "comical", as i dont agree with yours but i do not make fun of you in public. There is no point arguing.

To Jason, well done and i hope your happy with your decision and your beliefs continue to grow. :-)

[Raynes]

To iamvampire, you have the audacity to call me close minded when you come from one of the most close minded religions there is. The forgiveness you speak of is just another creation by Christians too give their followers hope after they told them they were going to hell just for living. And about me being critical, you're damn right I'm critical. You haven't seen half the shit I have. Just drop it man, there is no point in arguing. It wont change anything.

[MisterAndrews]

Raynes, it's not right that we continue this argument on this thread. I do want to respond to that comment but i will PM you.

As i've said before, well done for making your mind up about your religious beliefs.