Paranormal.

[The Batman]

Do you believe in ghosts, spirits, or any other paranormal being? Why or why not?

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I'll keep it short.

No, to everything mentioned. No evidence to suggest any of those things exist, therefore I do not believe in them.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Actually, I beg to differ there is evidence so you can't say there is no evidence. I believe in them, not the white ghosts that look like people wearing bedsheets, but the apparitions. Plus, I grew up listening to them. Now I'm part of a paranormal team, and I've been doing this for about 2 years. In this time, I have got evidence to support m findings which in fact suggests that they exist.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Actually, I beg to differ there is evidence so you can't say there is no evidence. I believe in them, not the white ghosts that look like people wearing bedsheets, but the apparitions. Plus, I grew up listening to them. Now I'm part of a paranormal team, and I've been doing this for about 2 years. In this time, I have got evidence to support m findings which in fact suggests that they exist.

Then provide the evidence. So far there has been absolutely NONE provided. When you were a little kid "growing up" its not that uncommon to "hear things" in the night. Heck, I thought that Jason from friday the 13th was in my closet or standing right over my bed at times when I was little. That's not an "apparition". In fact, all of these night-time apparitions especially from little KIDS holds NO scientific validity whatsoever. We know all about pareidolia; you're mind creates patterns, sounds, and familiar images out of RANDOM stimulus as an evolutionary trait.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

^^^ That is all your "hearing apparitions" ever was.

[doktored]

Then provide the evidence. So far there has been absolutely NONE provided. When you were a little kid "growing up" its not that uncommon to "hear things" in the night. Heck, I thought that Jason from friday the 13th was in my closet or standing right over my bed at times when I was little. That's not an "apparition". In fact, all of these night-time apparitions especially from little KIDS holds NO scientific validity whatsoever. We know all about pareidolia; you're mind creates patterns, sounds, and familiar images out of RANDOM stimulus as an evolutionary trait.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

^^^ That is all your "hearing apparitions" ever was.

You fail to acknowledge the many video's seen of these apparitions. Sure, many have been faked, but some have not. You also said there is no evidence proving there is ghosts, whilst you failed to mention that there is no evidence proving there IS NOT such a thing as ghosts.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

You fail to acknowledge the many video's seen of these apparitions. Sure, many have been faked, but some have not. You also said there is no evidence proving there is ghosts, whilst you failed to mention that there is no evidence proving there IS NOT such a thing as ghosts.

That's flawed logic in its most blatant form. You can't know if some have NOT been faked until you've proven that they are REAL... which has NEVER happened.

As for evidence of ghosts, the same goes for god, unicorns, and fairys. You don't assume that they DO exist, just because they haven't been DISPROVEN. The whole point of believing something is to KNOW its true, and have a reasonable basis of fact and evidence to support its existence.

You NOT prove that there are invisible garden gnomes making the flowers bloom every morning. Does that mean you automatically take the position that they exist? Of course not.

Name one SINGLE verified video or story. You can't.

If you're going to make the CLAIM that some of these videos are true; you can't just claim it and that settles it. You have to PROVIDE this proof. Its totally absurd to just automatically take the position of ghosts exiting simply because an impossible and unprovable thing has NOT been proven.

Seriously...

[Rutherford The Brave]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2oTGk8jvuw&feature=related Yes I can smart one, watch all of this and tell me that I'm wrong, mysterious thermal hits, voices, full bodied apparitions DIS PROVE THOSE! I've already proven that they exist you fail in comparison to disprove.

[Requin]

The problem with all this 'evidence' is that it is all exactly what we would expect to see. So it all seems a little too 'true'.
If you get what I mean.
I will only believe when I see one for myself, but I think they do exist.

[Whisper]

Yes I do
Why?
Because it's cool

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/colbys/supernatural.jpg

[Requin]

LOL!!!!
Best analysis ever.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2oTGk8jvuw&feature=related Yes I can smart one, watch all of this and tell me that I'm wrong, mysterious thermal hits, voices, full bodied apparitions DIS PROVE THOSE! I've already proven that they exist you fail in comparison to disprove.

If these people had ANY scientific basis behind their claims, they would be able to submit their evidence for peer review, which is how science works to PROVE things. If NONE of the evidence provided has EVER been peer-reviewed, double-blind tested etc., then it is NOT valid. ONE undexplainable thing happening ONE time, doesn't cut it; especially when a number of non-supernatural causes can be found.

IF ANY of the claims of this show (or any "ghostbuster" group) were actually REAL, this wouldn't just be classified as a superstition. We'd actually recognize it as fact... though we don't (for all the past reasons given).

IF ANY of these people gave REAL proof; don't you think we'd make a BIGGER DEAL about it?! I mean come on... REAL proof of ghosts! That would make national headlines and the WORLD would be changed. It would be the FIRST time we'd have a legitimate example of some kind of "afterlife" or continuation of life after the body dies.

But we don't...


(oh yeah and I agree... I DO believe in the Supernatural TV series. I can actually SEE that it exists! :D )

[Rutherford The Brave]

http://www.the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com/communicate/contactus.html ask them yourself smart one. ALL and when I say this I mean it, ALL of TAPS'S evidence is peer reviewed before it is put out to the public.

[Falk 'Ace' Flyer]

I don't think you grasp the concept of proof: asking them if the videos are real is like me stealing something and then saying I didn't do it. There's always a logical and real explanation for things that happen because of "ghosts;" a door opening? That's the best you can do?

Oh wait, I was just looking through some videos, and I take back everything! Holy shhiz this is freaky! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk_2Vdjrez0

[Donkey]

Nope, don't believe in them, but this 'evidence' is incredible:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

[theOperaGhost]

I'm leaning more towards no, but I don't know.

[Cindex]

Yes, I do.

Yes, I may be partially insane. I've always had weird stuff happen.


There's just one that has bothered the H*** out of me! When I was 9, me and my mom were at home because the rest of the family was at my grandma's. I stayed because I don't like my grandma on that side and neither did my mom. Plus she had to work anyways.

Well I'm supposed to wear glasses and I did at the time. I would put my glasses on the shelf above my bed. One morning I forgot to put them on and went downstairs. (My room was upstairs) My mom told me to go put them on. I was a computer geek even then and she hated it when I squinted. I went to go get them and they weren't there. My mom came and helped me look for them and got super-pissed when we couldn't find them. The next day I woke up, grabbed my glasses off of the shelf and went downstairs.

My mom started yelling and asked where I got them. Really weird.

[Perseus]

ok here we go again... I beleive in spirits because Ive seen tons of videos and even a picture of a ghost that clearly couldnt of been shooped because it was taken a hundred yrs. ago.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

ok here we go again... I beleive in spirits because Ive seen tons of videos and even a picture of a ghost that clearly couldnt of been shooped because it was taken a hundred yrs. ago.

Yeah... because nowadays people CAN'T take old pictures as "shoop" ghosts into them :rolleyes:

[Perseus]

ahg... it was on the freaking history channel and I highly doubt they shoop pics...

[ThatCanadianGuy]

ahg... it was on the freaking history channel and I highly doubt they shoop pics...

:rolleyes:

Not even gonna argue with this anymore. You'd need to prove they weren't shooped. IF they were pics of SOLID and easy to see "people ghosts" then I'd say shoopage. NOW, if its just blurry shit that you can't even TELL what it is... then either pareidolia, or natural causes (not SUPERnatural).

Post some PROOF people, to support your claim. PICTURES would be nice.

[CaptainObvious]

http://www.the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com/communicate/contactus.html ask them yourself smart one. ALL and when I say this I mean it, ALL of TAPS'S evidence is peer reviewed before it is put out to the public.

You obviously don't know what the term "peer review" means, which is not really your fault since TCG is sort of misusing it. Peer review is the rigorous and wide-ranging process through which new contributions to science (generally in the context of scientific journals) are checked to ensure no errors, and also reproducibility.

Peer review for these flakes is meaningless, since their peers are other nutjob "ghost hunters" and such chaff. But the process is important, so we'll bear with the name.

Are you telling me that the "evidence" presented in the video has been extensively reviewed by scientists or other relevant experts for validity and to rule out other causes? Most importantly, have the results in that video ever been reproduced? Lots of random crap can happen - if you can't reproduce it, it's not evidence of anything.

And in case it wasn't already obvious, I do not believe in any supernatural crap like this, no more than I believe in God (which is zero).

[Raynes]

It really depends on how you define the paranormal. I've seen spirits. I sense their presence naturally. It's just a part of who I am, for reasons I can't explain here.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

You obviously don't know what the term "peer review" means, which is not really your fault since TCG is sort of misusing it. Peer review is the rigorous and wide-ranging process through which new contributions to science (generally in the context of scientific journals) are checked to ensure no errors, and also reproducibility.

).

Sorry; I COULD have made such a good post EXPLAINING what the basics of REAL peer-reviewing is... but I thought I didn't HAVE to; I guess I should have seen it coming that people wouldn't know what it means to the scientific community (duh... we're talking about friggin' GHOSTS now, I should have known :rolleyes:)

ANYWAYS; going along with this framework of what peer review IS... nothing at all has come close to validating ANY of your claims. So... stop saying that it has when it obviously has not.

[Perseus]

319
Voila
heres the picture i was talking about this whole time

[doktored]

That's flawed logic in its most blatant form. You can't know if some have NOT been faked until you've proven that they are REAL... which has NEVER happened.

That is exactly my point, you can't say that they are real, but at the same time you cannot say that they are fake. If you can't prove it, you let it slide, so just let it go TCG, stop the arguements till this turns into warfare like the homosexuality topic.

If these people had ANY scientific basis behind their claims, they would be able to submit their evidence for peer review, which is how science works to PROVE things. If NONE of the evidence provided has EVER been peer-reviewed, double-blind tested etc., then it is NOT valid. ONE undexplainable thing happening ONE time, doesn't cut it; especially when a number of non-supernatural causes can be found.

Peer Reviews are susceptible to being incorrect aswell. The most historical one I can think of is gravity. For hundreds of years people believed in Sir Isaac Newton's theory of Gravitation, it was reviewed and there was no arguement that it was false, then a few hundred years later Albert Einstein comes along and proved how wrong Sir Isaac was with the theory of relativity. I understand where you are coming from, like you I am more of a scientific guy where, in most cases, science has the better answer than something else, it us just in the cases or paranormal activity and aliens where I cannot say which side I am on as there isn't sufficient evidence proving either side wrong.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Weel, I emailed then seeing as you guys are to lazy to ask yourself.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

That is exactly my point, you can't say that they are real, but at the same time you cannot say that they are fake. If you can't prove it, you let it slide, so just let it go TCG, stop the arguements till this turns into warfare like the homosexuality topic.

Peer Reviews are susceptible to being incorrect aswell. The most historical one I can think of is gravity. For hundreds of years people believed in Sir Isaac Newton's theory of Gravitation, it was reviewed and there was no arguement that it was false, then a few hundred years later Albert Einstein comes along and proved how wrong Sir Isaac was with the theory of relativity. I understand where you are coming from, like you I am more of a scientific guy where, in most cases, science has the better answer than something else, it us just in the cases or paranormal activity and aliens where I cannot say which side I am on as there isn't sufficient evidence proving either side wrong.


Okay. For the FIRST part, about not being able to DISPROVE or PROVE it, here's my point. You don't AUTOMATICALLY take the position that something exists when you have NO proof of it. You automatically take the "negative" position and can't say that it DOES exist until you prove it.

As for Newton; you butchered it (sorry :D). Einstein did NOT prove Newton was "wrong" or anything. All he did was ADVANCE our scientific knowledge. Newton was alive several HUNDRED years before; all he was ABLE to explain at that time was gravity in relation to the Earth. The theory of relativity was just a way to EXPAND upon Newton, and explain the relation of space, time, and gravity to eachother. HE DIDN'T PROVE NEWTON WRONG!!!

I don't know how much more I can stress that. I'm serious... if he'd proved Newton wrong then gravity must make things fall up! When you BUILD upon previous knowledge, you aren't proving it wrong... you're making our understanding MORE detailed and ACCURATE.

As for DaTrooper... your picture is totally unconvincing... I think I've even seen it before. If you think that "ghost" is real... give us the evidence. The PICTURE is not evidence until you can prove that it's real... you can't just post it and say "voila, its real". If you give me SOURCES and scientific review that makes the picture REAL... then you have more of an argument.

[Perseus]

i looked for it google( yes i know) because i've seen it before plenty of times and i was convinced. It could've been shoop, anything could be shooped now a days but still, what if it wasn't? It actually is one of the most famous ones too because of when it was taken and how impossible it would to fake a transparent appearance like that. But for the source I will get back to you on that, once im done listening to my maiden.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

i looked for it google( yes i know) because i've seen it before plenty of times and i was convinced. It could've been shoop, anything could be shooped now a days but still, what if it wasn't? It actually is one of the most famous ones too because of when it was taken and how impossible it would to fake a transparent appearance like that. But for the source I will get back to you on that, once im done listening to my maiden.

Though I love my maiden; stop using it as an excuse :P

A google image that convinces ONE young and naive person doesn't really credit the cause.

Come back with those sources. And Up the Irons! :D

[Perseus]

I got from a website that has booty loads of pictures( I think) so i highly doubt they have the actual source but... who knows?

I put my evidence on the wrong thread...
www.hauntedamericatours.com

it has evidence on ghosts i think because it says so..
dont say im gullable Candian Man

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I got from a website that has booty loads of pictures( I think) so i highly doubt they have the actual source but... who knows?

I put my evidence on the wrong thread...
www.hauntedamericatours.com

it has evidence on ghosts i think because it says so..
dont say im gullable Candian Man

You can't site a biased source... haunted tour people make MONEY on ghosts. Of course they are gonna TRY to make it seem real! Or else they'd be out of a job!

Yes... you are gullible... IF you believe in ghosts and superstition. I'm sure you don't though.... right? :P

[Perseus]

Hey i dont believe everything i hear, see, or read man...

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Hey i dont believe everything i hear, see, or read man...

Good! Skepticism and critical thinking are the best assets you can have in life. That... and good music!

(you're lucky we love the same bands... it keeps me staying "nice" :P lol jk)

[Perseus]

I wish i could present some massive loads of evidence to where you would be like, "hey, wait a second, thats seems logical" but knowing me that'll never happen lol.. and also why do i all ways lose debates or arguments its like a curse.. I guess i never have enough evidence and sometimes im ignorant.. oh well...

[Mzor203]

http://paranormal.about.com/library/graphics/ghost_on_stairs_lg.jpg

This was an image that was taken when nothing "ghostly" or "paranormal" was being investigated at all. It was just a shot of a stairway in a manor or museum just for the heck of it I suppose. But this turned up in it. Of course people thought it had been tampered with, but the experts at Kodak (the brand of film I believe) took the negatives in, reviewed them, yadda yadda, and confirmed that there had been zero tamperment. Is that not proof that there is SOMETHING?

As for proof of my own, I had two very distinct experiences growing up, both of which were very weird, and somewhat creepy to me.

One of them happened when I was around 7 or 8 years old. We lived in a house in which there were always doors randomly opening or closing, which we always attributed to "the wind".

Since we ran a daycare, the doors had safety cover plastic thingers on them which you have to squeeze down to open (sorry can't find a pic for some reason). So anyway, I was incapable of opening them.

One time I wanted to get into my parents' room for whatever reason, but I couldn't find my mom, so I decided she must be in the room. So I went up to the door, and was about to knock, when the door handle turned and the door swung inwards. Nobody was there. I checked around the entire room, and eventually went and found my mom outside. There was no logical way that the door handle could have turned itself like that.

Second was the weirder one. It is also the one with less concrete evidence that could be dismissed as the weirdness that happens inside a child's mind, but I'll still tell it because it was one of the weirdest experiences I've had in my entire life.

I was a bit older for this one, I think just over 10 years old. My dad had taken my brothers and I to one of his brother's houses to visit for a week in summer. One of my cousins was there as well, who I played with a lot.

One of the days we were outside playing. It was a normal enough day, nothing weird about it, but then I looked up and looked across a field that was near us, and I saw a man. I was too far away to make out any features, but I could tell it was a human. Suddenly, out of nowhere, everything just kind of went blank. I didn't remember anything about me in my body for that period of time, but all of a sudden I was looking out through the eyes of the man. I remember feeling his thoughts, and I remember seeing myself and my cousin through his eyes on the other side of that same field, and I remember some very menacing thoughts, though I couldn't really make out what. I remember him having a gun of some sort... what kind I couldn't tell you, might have been a shotgun, but just after that I came back to myself, dropped what I was doing, and ran inside as fast as I could, much to the bemusement of my cousin.

A few minutes later we all heard a gunshot, which repeated itself a minute after that. We could never figure out what it was or why.

I know the second experience is something that could be blown aside very easily, but I know what I felt, and I know it was something more then me seeing things.

So anyway, yes, I believe in that there are certain things out there. I KNOW there are things out there. What I don't know is exactly what they are, what their purpose is, what they are made of. But we have always had strange things happen around us. We've always lived in houses where doors would randomly open and close and things would randomly go crash every once in a while. And I'm okay with that, because it interests me. It's neat.

And that's my rant. Wee... that was fun.

[Perseus]

I believe you unlike Canadian who wont even with your evidence and dont say im gullable again!:no:

[Raynes]

TAPS is pure useless garbage, they are what makes the paranormal seem fake. Ghost hunters. What a load of shit.

[Antares]

For all you non believers, all you have to do is just...

watch Most Haunted. Travel Channel. Friday night.

Then you will see....
slash hear...

[Random_oso06]

ooh ya i seen it it is freaky

[theOperaGhost]

For all you non believers, all you have to do is just...

watch Most Haunted. Travel Channel. Friday night.

Then you will see....
slash hear...

I've been watching Most Haunted for years and never see or hear anything...that damn British woman never shuts the fuck up though...lol :P

[AutumnDae]

I keep flipping between whether I do or not.

I awoke one morning at my uncles house to sense that someone was in the room. You know that feeling? Yea. I had that one. I turned over to see someone standing there. Obviously not my mom or my uncle. Those were the only people in the house. I felt like I couldn't talk. I wasn't scared or anything, but I just looked, curious. The "man" looked at me, and turned around to walk away. I thought it was odd because he was wearing a suit and a hat. He opened up the door and was gone. As soon as I like...thought about what had happened, I sat up. The door was open, and there was no one in the room. I got up and I asked my mom and uncle if they had opened the door a while ago. They said no, they haven't been down my hallway since they closed my door at around midnight last night.

How did the door open? The room is at the end of a hallway, and it opens outward, and my window wasn't open. The wind didn't push it open. I later asked my uncle about the history of his house. He had grown up there, but before his parents bought it there was a couple. A business man of some sort, I want to say worked at a bank and his wife lived there. The man eventually died in the household after being sick for a while.

What is weird though, is that my uncle has since mentioned that he saw that man a few times. I told him what happened to me, and he said "He was wearing a hat? And nice clothes? He didn't say anything right, just walked away?" I told him, and he had told me that this was what had happened to me.

Another time, actually just on Thanksgiving, we were at my grandmother's house. The hallway between her kitchen and dining room has a counter and cabinets, along with a door to the basement. The door is very heavy and hard to open and close. We were getting dinner on the table, and all of the sudden the door just opened. On it's own. We closed it and mentioned it to my grandmother. "Oh it's just those darn ghosts again." she said, joking. She then said "I can hear people down there, walking. One time they knocked on the door." Wait, what?!

So yea. I don't know. Those are my experiences. I dunno if I believe or not.

[Perseus]

ive seen some of that show. its pretty freaky at times

[Camazotz]

I don't think you grasp the concept of proof: asking them if the videos are real is like me stealing something and then saying I didn't do it. There's always a logical and real explanation for things that happen because of "ghosts;" a door opening? That's the best you can do?

Oh wait, I was just looking through some videos, and I take back everything! Holy shhiz this is freaky! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk_2Vdjrez0

Lmao, that was great.
Nope, don't believe in them, but this 'evidence' is incredible:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

I've been Rickrolled too many times...:(
Yes, I do.

Yes, I may be partially insane. I've always had weird stuff happen.


There's just one that has bothered the H*** out of me! When I was 9, me and my mom were at home because the rest of the family was at my grandma's. I stayed because I don't like my grandma on that side and neither did my mom. Plus she had to work anyways.

Well I'm supposed to wear glasses and I did at the time. I would put my glasses on the shelf above my bed. One morning I forgot to put them on and went downstairs. (My room was upstairs) My mom told me to go put them on. I was a computer geek even then and she hated it when I squinted. I went to go get them and they weren't there. My mom came and helped me look for them and got super-pissed when we couldn't find them. The next day I woke up, grabbed my glasses off of the shelf and went downstairs.

My mom started yelling and asked where I got them. Really weird.

Misplacing your glasses isn't good evidence to support the paranormal.

I do not believe in ghosts. I will not bother with the lack of evidence because frankly, the whole argument is annoying.

[Zephyr]

Yes.
I say this from shear experience.

My dad's house was, and may still have a ghost in it.
Not a bad one mind you, but a nice one if anything.
It's a lady, in her 40's or 50's, who was found dead in the upstairs closet back in the 70's.
She was the original owner's first wife.

But she's rather fond of me.
When my parents used to fight all of the time before they divorced,
She'd come around and comfort me.
I didn't ever see her, but I could hear her and feel her presence.

When I would be home alone at night and scared,
She'd always play the same eerie, yet sweet lullaby tune for me,
Like I was her child or grandchild.
My friend Katie heard it a couple times before too... so I'm not crazy :P
Also, when nobody was home, you could hear her walking around upstairs,
Or coming down the stairs to the basement to my room.

Every time I felt she was around, my dog Holly would start freaking out, barking, growling, running around the downstairs living room and sometimes backing up into the corner with her hair on her back sticking up for no apparent reason.

I haven't felt her presence for a couple years though,
Kind of makes me sad in a way.
She was like a non-existent grandmother or nanny
Since my granny lives across the country,
And my grandma is mentally ill, lives in a nursing home in Washington and doesn't even know who I am hardly.

[Modus Operandi]

No, I really don't. Despite all the "ghost hunters" out there who say they exist. There really is no profound evidence that they are real.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

No, I really don't. Despite all the "ghost hunters" out there who say they exist. There really is no profound evidence that they are real.

QFT

I get really annoyed by these "ghost hunter" shows where they go around to supposedly haunted places to PROVE that ghosts are really there. On the other hand however, I am confident enough that ghosts do not exist, that I would spend the night in ANY haunted place you can name, even if its said to be haunted with "evil" ghosts or whatever. That would be a pretty easy way to make money by just sleeping somewhere for a night!

[INFERNO]

I believe that their existence is merely for little campfire stories and fairy tales. So, are they real to me? No.

ahg... it was on the freaking history channel and I highly doubt they shoop pics...

Then prove that they don't. Your doubtfulness is meaningless as it's not proof.

These paranormal things can all be rationalized and explained. Taking a camera and having something spooky happen can be easily replicated by a child. Go in some home where there's some "disturbance", be all scared going in, hear or see some faint obscure thing and cry out ghost.

This seems to be simply a result of people unable to explain something so they attribute it to be "paranormal".

[Perseus]

Wait, TCG, does that mean all of youre creepypasta is fake? Lol, IM such a pansy..
But, anyway, back to this topic..
Ok, assylums, here is a great example ofa place being paranormal..
People have described assylums that they've been too after they were closed and saying that it is just scary.. doors closing.. people being pushed down stairs.. COLD CHILLS out of nowhere..
I mean seriously, that is convincing, and back to the old days..
Im not gullible TCG. :D

[INFERNO]

Wait, TCG, does that mean all of youre creepypasta is fake? Lol, IM such a pansy..
But, anyway, back to this topic..
Ok, assylums, here is a great example ofa place being paranormal..
People have described assylums that they've been too after they were closed and saying that it is just scary.. doors closing.. people being pushed down stairs.. COLD CHILLS out of nowhere..
I mean seriously, that is convincing, and back to the old days..
Im not gullible TCG. :D

Asylums a few hundred years ago were absolutely horrible. The methods they used, in some cases, may be considered torture or damn near close to that in modern times. For example, Benjamin Rush, the "Father of American psychiatry" believed there were 2 main ways to rid a person of a mental disorder. First, you try to scare the shit out of them. Second, you bleed them because he believed the disorders may have been due to excess blood in the brain.

So, before you start going on about asylums, do know that most of the time, they were hell-holes. The exceptions are Phillipe Pinel (man who freed the patients from chains because they were bound about against a wall in more or less a dungeon), and some others (I think Dorthea Dix?). Then again, Pinel only helped the rich patients, not the poorer ones.

[BuryYourFlame]

i believe that there is a spiritual realm, that we cannot see, but not in ghosts. i.e. i believe that angles and demons exist, and that demons can do horrible things to people.

why? because the bible says that they exist, and i trust the bible. Also from historical accounts. dont challenge me on this, i cannot name them, i have only heard them mentioned.

[Perseus]

Inferno, I know what used to happen in assylums, thats why I mentioned it, because what happened there was so messed up, the people's spirits' weren't able to go anywhere, that's probally why some assylums are believed to be haunted.

[Camazotz]

Just like religion, I need evidence before I can believe in something. I have never seen any type of evidence (besides photos which can be shopped or flashes of light in the lens) to point to the existence of "ghosts". I would appreciate any evidence.

[Techno Monster]

I do.
I know we can't be the only things in the universe.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I do.
I know we can't be the only things in the universe.

Uhhh... duh. We're obviously just one organism amongst trillions on our planet alone. That doesn't mean that magic spooky people actually exist.

[INFERNO]

Inferno, I know what used to happen in assylums, thats why I mentioned it, because what happened there was so messed up, the people's spirits' weren't able to go anywhere, that's probally why some assylums are believed to be haunted.

... Did you actually read what I wrote or just re-iterate what you said? If you believe it was so horrible because people's "spirits" couldn't escape, then you need to do more research or at least think outside this little spiritual paradigm of yours in order to truly see what happened. As for them suspecting to be haunted, I suppose their "spirits", especially of the mentally ill would be believed to remain trapped. However, that does not begin to explain nor touch on what happened at the asylums.

I do.
I know we can't be the only things in the universe.

So you believe in the paranormal simply due to the very high probability that extra-terrestrial life may exist in other galaxies and on other planets humans have not yet investigated? Seems more like common sense and basic mathematical skills comimg into play than believing in the paranormal.

[Perseus]

No, Inferno, i know what happened at assylums, people were not treated with respect,mistreated, people just didn't care about the mentally ill. I wasn't saying whatever you thought I said. i just didn't make it clear.

[Halibut]

i sure do :D

[Camazotz]

i sure do :D

May I ask why?

[Church]

I do because I have experienced ghost, and no I wasn't watching a ghost movie and seeing things, didn't just get up, wasn't seeing something out of corner of my eye, was right there in front of me, no light sources to cause a illusion etc.

[BlackenedSilver]

I believe in it, Not because Ive seen a ghost or anything. The only time Ive come close to that is when my Gran died, My dad came in a said they had to go to the hospital because She didnt look good but I had to stay home, then 10 mins after they had gone I felt someone in my room, and just whispered to myself, She's dead. I was too scared to turn around but I could feel her in the room watching me cry.

Anyway the reason is because I cant be 100% sure that Ghosts don't exsist, Who actually knows what happens to our spirits when we die, I like to thnk theres something more but Im not religious. But Im not going to stop believing in it until we have 100% proof that when we die thats it.. we just die.

[rainebg]

No i don't but id like to. I've always found it hard to believe in anything like that, even god.
i just can' wrap my head around it.