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View Full Version : St. Johns police video: 8 year old boy says he 'thinks' he killed his dad


The Batman
November 22nd, 2008, 12:30 PM
A police videotape released Tuesday shows a tearful 8-year-old in St. Johns confessing to murder after more than an hour of questioning by detectives, then burying his face in his shirt.
"I think, um, I think I shot my dad because he was suffering, I think," the third-grader says. "So, I may have shot him."
That admission led detectives to arrest the boy on Nov. 6, one day after his father and another man were shot dead at the family's home on a quiet residential street. (http://gannett.gcion.com/adlink/5111/328554/0/154/AdId=139071;BnId=1;itime=374928078;nodecode=yes;link=http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/10621-66737-13791-5?mpt=374928078)
Police have said the child's initial account contained numerous discrepancies, which caused investigators to interrogate him further. Roy Melnick, police chief in St. Johns, said last week that the crime appeared to be carefully planned and that he advocated the boy be tried as an adult.
Since then, a judge has issued a gag order, which prevented the child's attorneys from comment Tuesday. Earlier, they had complained that their client was subjected to an interview without parental authorization or legal counsel.
Steven Drizen, legal director at the Center on Wrongful Convictions in Chicago, and an expert on juvenile false convictions, said children are especially vulnerable to leading questions and pressure during police interrogations.
"There is a heightened risk of false confessions when police officers use tactics that are legally permissible with adults on children," he added.
Drizen said false confessions accounted for about one-fifth of all wrongful convictions in a 2004 study, with high percentages of those involving murder cases and child suspects.
The two victims suffered multiple wounds in the Nov. 5 attack. Police have said the suspected weapon is a single-shot .22 rifle that the boy's father, a hunter, had given to him.
The Arizona Republic is not identifying the boy or his father. The second victim, Tim Romans, lived at the house and was a work colleague of the father.
The police video was made available Tuesday by the Apache County Attorney's Office, which also released photographs from the autopsy and pictures taken by police at the crime scene.
Investigative records are public, and a court ban on releasing documents in the case was lifted last week. But police and prosecutors have yet to make the homicide report available or to disclose the results of key crime-lab tests. There has been no indication whether ballistics examinations verified the murder weapon, or if gunpowder residue was found on the boy.
The interview was conducted by two female law-enforcement officers whose identities could not be determined.
In the video, one of the detectives initiates conversation by emphasizing the importance of telling the truth.
The boy, wearing pajama bottoms and seated in a stuffed chair, seems articulate and intelligent. Through much of the videotaped interview, the child fidgets and wriggles, denying any role in the slayings. With prompting and pressure, his story begins to change. First, he says he may have shot at a vehicle he saw fleeing the scene. Later, he says the gun may have gone off by accident. Finally, he says he thinks he fired two shots at his father to end his suffering after he already had been wounded and two shots at Romans for the same reason.
The escalating admissions are often phrased as possibilities or questions. He never admits to initially wounding his father and Romans but says he may have shot them because they were in agony.
The interview begins as he tells detectives that, after getting off the school bus, he wandered around his neighborhood for about 90 minutes because no one arrived home from work on Wednesdays until 5 p.m.
When he finally returned home, the boy says, he saw a white sedan race down the street. Then he looked at the house: "I saw the door (was) open, and I saw Tim (Romans) right there. And I ran and I said, 'Dad! Dad!' And I went upstairs and I saw him. And there was blood all over his face. And I think I touched him. I just kind of checked to see if he was a little bit alive."
The boy says he cried beside his father for about 30 minutes before going next door to tell a young neighbor, "My dad is dead." The neighbor phoned his parent at work, who came home and discovered the crime scene. He then called police on a cellphone.
During the interview, the detectives claim that other sources told them the boy was in the house during the killings and that someone had repeatedly called out the boy's name about the time of the gunshots. The child denies that ever happened.
Gradually, the investigators become more aggressive. They explain fingerprints and gunshot residue, telling the boy, "If you shot the gun, we're going to find out."
"I think I might have shot the gun," he says finally, "because I think I went in the house and the car was still driving on the street, and I think I shot at the car."
"What happened?" the woman asks. "Come on, tell us the truth."
"I'm not ... I'm not lying," the child answers.
"Did you shoot your dad?"
"I don't know."
Twenty minutes later, the same question: "Did you shoot your dad?"
The boy rubs his eyes and covers his face, saying quietly, "I think so."
"You think so. Did you shoot him because you were mad at him?"
The boy shakes his head, "No."

Neverender
November 22nd, 2008, 08:14 PM
whats the source? i only got through enough to figure out what happened (first 3 or 4 lines). St. John's is the capital of newfoundland.

The Batman
November 22nd, 2008, 08:31 PM
It's in the U.S.

Whisper
November 22nd, 2008, 11:01 PM
i read the first sentence and stopped there

If someone that young took a gun and shot his dad
Then something horrible happened
he was coerced, minipulated or horribly treated

3rd graders do not go around killing there parents
and I haven't herd anything about this
on any news here

The Batman
November 22nd, 2008, 11:08 PM
He might not have done it the cops interrogated him for an hour without any relatives or a lawyer. I believe they scared a confession from the boy.

NightHawksr71
November 22nd, 2008, 11:40 PM
He might not have done it the cops interrogated him for an hour without any relatives or a lawyer. I believe they scared a confession from the boy.

And in doing that they screwed themselves over, any good lawyer will free the kid on the need to have a lawyer or Family member present, which means the "confession" Should be thrown out of court. I will agree with you though a kid that young would be fairly easily scared by two adult police officers questioning him.

Oblivion
November 23rd, 2008, 12:12 AM
Thats so sad :(
Thats all i can say :(

Random_oso06
November 23rd, 2008, 01:14 AM
is this true i feel sorry for the little kid but it sounds like he is just saying yes and no then maybe

Neverender
November 23rd, 2008, 03:12 AM
It's in the U.S.

ahh. i never read the whole thread in this forum anyways. im like Kodie

ShatteredWings
November 23rd, 2008, 03:46 PM
I actually read the whole thing

It seems that the kid was handed a gun to hold for a few minuetes or something like that, and he accidentally set it off.

How could anyone accuse a child of trying to kill someone? He's too young. The fact that he 'can't remember' if he did it tells me that he didn't try to and is afraid that he's gonna get in trouble

RaisingSand
November 24th, 2008, 01:03 AM
i read the first sentence and stopped there

If someone that young took a gun and shot his dad
Then something horrible happened
he was coerced, minipulated or horribly treated

3rd graders do not go around killing there parents
and I haven't herd anything about this
on any news here

Agreed.

Hyper
November 24th, 2008, 07:13 AM
Agreed.

Unless their sadistic psychopaths

Though yeah I'm leaning more to the side that its easier for them to pin it on the kid rather than to investigate it

nachtspiegel
November 24th, 2008, 08:44 AM
I saw this on the morning national news and was enraged by the end of the feature. This child is being held! His mother gets daily visits, but half of them are through a glass pane. She gets him for 48 hours on Thanksgiving and then he has to be taken back to the juvenile center. He's being kept in his own cell because of his age, but regardless, I hope she sues the hell out of the municipality. This child is being put through unnecessary hell because of ignorant fucks that should not be allowed anywhere near a law preceding.
This is a fucking disgrace.

ShatteredWings
November 24th, 2008, 03:20 PM
I saw this on the morning national news and was enraged by the end of the feature. This child is being held! His mother gets daily visits, but half of them are through a glass pane. She gets him for 48 hours on Thanksgiving and then he has to be taken back to the juvenile center. He's being kept in his own cell because of his age, but regardless, I hope she sues the hell out of the municipality. This child is being put through unnecessary hell because of ignorant fucks that should not be allowed anywhere near a law preceding.
This is a fucking disgrace.

Are. You. KIDDING?

wow. What the hell is wrong with people
We all know that an eight year old would NOT intentioally kill his parent [well, there are like maybe two exceptions, but this child is CLEARLY not one of them]

And their treating him like some sort of deranged killer?

theOperaGhost
November 24th, 2008, 03:36 PM
The interrogation can't even be used, can it? He's 8 years old, thus a minor, so there needs to be a parent present. The kid didn't have a parent or lawyer present. I think the interrogation is inadmissible in the court of law. There was obviously coercion and if this interrogation is allowed as evidence in the court of law, it is a disgrace to the whole justice system. It already is a disgrace, but god damn...yeah, it's bullshit. The kid is god damn 8 years old! Now he's going to be put through psych evaluations and trials. There is a small possibility it wasn't accident and the kid is a psychopath (has antisocial personality disorder), but it doesn't appear there are any signs that he is psychopathic.

ShatteredWings
November 24th, 2008, 03:44 PM
Yeah.. i don't think you can do that to a child under like 12 anyway. So.. basicly what he 'said' is inadmisable and.. god. HE'S EIGHT. If he had issues, there would be proof of it by now

theOperaGhost
November 24th, 2008, 03:51 PM
He could be psychopathic, but most people with antisocial personality disorder start out by torturing animals at his age, not killing their fathers....I highly doubt he meant to do it. It was probably an accident and I think they are going way overboard.

Now if he has a history of torturing or killing animals, pyromania, lack of remorse, I would think differently, but I don't know the kids history.

The Batman
November 24th, 2008, 04:52 PM
I'm not sure but I think it was more than his dad that was shot. I think that his neighbor was killed as well.