Souls

[Random_oso06]

Do dogs really have souls because there was this commotion in my debate class and it turned in to a fight so is it really true :confused:

[Camazotz]

No one will ever be sure, but in my opinion souls don't exist.

[Random_oso06]

so your saying you don't have a soul :P

[ThatCanadianGuy]

so your saying you don't have a soul :P

Yes. Yes he is. And I don't think there is sufficient evidence to believe souls exist either. Dogs don't have souls and neither do we. Yayyy...

[BlackenedSilver]

I believe in souls, and I think every living thing has them well except plants. But everything that can interact with other animals, love, care and hate has a soul. (In my opinion)

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I believe in souls, and I think every living thing has them well except plants. But everything that can interact with other animals, love, care and hate has a soul. (In my opinion)

Why do you think so? All of those emotions are explained with the brain; no soul needed for any of those emotions. Where does the soul come in? And hey why not plants! They have feelings too! (lol jk) But seriously why do you believe in them then.

[The Batman]

I do believe in souls and that plants and animals have them. I believe that we get our soul is the only part of us that is pure.

[Random_oso06]

Why do you think so? All of those emotions are explained with the brain; no soul needed for any of those emotions. Where does the soul come in? And hey why not plants! They have feelings too! (lol jk) But seriously why do you believe in them then.

well i believe in it it is just the opinion of others but we won't would we there are many ways that we have souls like to love and what to tell whats good or wrong like a Jimmie cricket lol

[Whisper]

Do dogs really have souls because there was this commotion in my debate class and it turned in to a fight so is it really true :confused:

As far as I'm concerned
anything thats alive has a soul
Some burn brighter than others
When you compare a humans to say that of a tree
But if it's alive
It has a soul
period


But thats me

[Hyper]

As far as I'm concerned
anything thats alive has a soul
Some burn brighter than others
When you compare a humans to say that of a tree
But if it's alive
It has a soul
period


But thats me

La la

ALERT: Personal Opinion

I agree basically, since its 4:21 AM I wont expand it though and since I can't rep I'm posting :P

[Antares]

I haven't decided. I think yes, I am leaning my answer to yes but since there is no...proof...I don't know

[Curthose93]

I don't believe that there is such a thing as a soul, unless... actually, can you give me your definition of 'soul'?

[rainebg]

what exactly is a soul?

[MissRuby]

rainebg, I was going to ask the exactly same thing!
I've heard the word "soul" so many times yet don't know the exact definition. Maybe that's because there isn't one.

In any case, I have a basic idea of what the word means and no, dogs don't have souls just like people don't. Until there's sufficient evidence that I should think otherwise, I'm not.

[CaptainObvious]

I don't think anything has a soul. In fact, neuroscience provides decent arguments (/evidence) against us even having true free will... though that's another debate. But at its basic, I believe that to say we have souls is a proposition that must be proved, and until it is I do not put stock in it.

[zarri]

Why do you think so? All of those emotions are explained with the brain; no soul needed for any of those emotions. Where does the soul come in? And hey why not plants! They have feelings too! (lol jk) But seriously why do you believe in them then.

Well, would there be any reason for our emotions without a soul? Our being able to make a distinction of right and wrong I think defines our soul. Our being able to feel fear, I think, is part of our soul.

[Curthose93]

Feeling fear is needed for survival. If we didn't learn to be afraid of bad things, like vicious predators or extreme heights, then we'd be easy prey for the simplest of things. It's a natural part of our brain. Emotions, I think, can be explained in much the same way.


And still, for this debate to continue, it is necessary to know what you all think a soul is.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Well, would there be any reason for our emotions without a soul? Our being able to make a distinction of right and wrong I think defines our soul. Our being able to feel fear, I think, is part of our soul.

All of those things you mentioned have been explained a longggg time ago. Neuroscience? Neurochemistry to be exact. We KNOW the areas of the brain and the chemicals/hormones involved that CAUSE emotions. The distinction of right and wrong partly comes from our learning (we "learn" that hurting other people is bad) as well as an evolutionary adaptation (we are social animals; our survival depends on us being able to "get along with eachother" and not right or do "bad" things to eachother).

All of that stuff is natural, and soul-less. Where does the soul come in? There's been no evidence presented for it, otherwise it might hold some actual credibility.

[Whisper]

How is that soul-less
DEFINE soul for me?

[Callwaiting]

Apparently soul is another word for psyche - the psyche refers to the forces in an individual that influence thought, behavior and personality.
So I guess if you look at it in a technical perspective everything capable of independant thought has a soul, no matter how simple or small.

So yes, I'd have to say that a dog has a soul.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

What evidence AT ALL do we have for "evidence" that souls exist? Nevermind the DEFINITION you have for souls; all the things that have been attributed to souls so far in this thread are just natural things like our brains and neurochemistry. Where does the soul come in and explain something that natural causes CAN'T?

[Techno Monster]

I go back and forth on the whole soul thing, it is a confusing concept.
At the moment, I'd say no.

[Curthose93]

What evidence AT ALL do we have for "evidence" that souls exist? Nevermind the DEFINITION you have for souls; all the things that have been attributed to souls so far in this thread are just natural things like our brains and neurochemistry. Where does the soul come in and explain something that natural causes CAN'T?

You cannot simply assert your position as being correct and expect everyone to take your word for it. You must fully understand the beliefs of the opposition before you are able to reason them away. Besides, how are we to know that when someone SAYS 'soul', that they THINK of the supernatural. For example, someone may think of 'soul' as simply being a synonym for the natural consciousness, with no spiritual or supernatural meaning attached to it. So, don't "nevermind" my question, CanadianGuy. And don't come into the debate forum if you aren't going to actually DEBATE.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

You cannot simply assert your position as being correct and expect everyone to take your word for it. .

When... supernatural beliefs have done this for thousands of years? Do I need to say any more? You said it yourself in the first sentence.

I don't assert my position without evidence and facts. I was TRYING to get people to explain what souls do that WE CAN NOT explain already with natural things (science).

[Perseus]

on xbox live one day i said to my friend dogs have no soul and hes like everything has a soul and he called me retarted and so we got into the same kinda debate here and yeah i believe that only humans have souls so yeah

[Curthose93]

I was TRYING to get people to explain what souls do that WE CAN NOT explain already with natural things (science).

Getting to that may be a multi-step process, but your blunt approach is obviously not getting very far. That's all I was saying.

[zarri]

Where does the soul come in and explain something that natural causes CAN'T?

I think the soul is what makes up who we are. Our personality, our conscience.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

I think the soul is what makes up who we are. Our personality, our conscience.

Yet... I already explained that "who we are" and our personality and conscience are clearly natural biological processes (especially the conscience, which we can almost see how it really evolved from our ancestors). So there's no "supernatural" thing anywhere in there to call a "soul".

Seriously; ANYTHING that we don't already know is natural? Haven't seen anything so far.

[Falk 'Ace' Flyer]

*puts on lab coat*
Fact: all thoughts and information stored in the brain and cells are stored via electrical signals, even for dogs. Which means souls are just currents of electricity, arranged in specific ways.
*takes of lab coat*
Yeah, what the smart guy said!

[Hyper]

Lal you hardcore atheists make good SCIENTIFIC points but your ignoring the natural truth that people have certain traits that have no connection to their experiences or upbringing

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Lal you hardcore atheists make good SCIENTIFIC points but your ignoring the natural truth that people have certain traits that have no connection to their experiences or upbringing

Give me an example. You've made a claim. Now its time for YOU to back it up for once! Not meaning to single you out in particular... but I hear come-backs like this all the time... without the person giving ANY evidence or reason for me to believe them. Give me an example of a trait that isn't caused by upbrining, experience, OR genetic predisposition and neurochemistry... two factors that YOU left out.

[Cindex]

on xbox live one day i said to my friend dogs have no soul and hes like everything has a soul and he called me retarted and so we got into the same kinda debate here and yeah i believe that only humans have souls so yeah
What's the difference between a human and a dog? We're smarter so we have a soul?

Lal you hardcore atheists make good SCIENTIFIC points but your ignoring the natural truth that people have certain traits that have no connection to their experiences or upbringing
Hardcore atheists? Two things on that. It's a religion, a belief, that is in no way hardcore. Second, don't group people like that. It's rude.

No connection. Well actually that's because chemicals in the brain aren't in tubes. They react differently on how they're mixed. If you get hit in the head while you're thinking it can literally help spark a new idea or concept.

It's not all that difficult to grasp. The soul has nothing to do with your brain whatsoever. It's simply what people think of.

[Perseus]

Canadian guy calm down, let people beleive what they want. No one has proof that they exist or dont

[Falk 'Ace' Flyer]

Canadian guy calm down, let people beleive what they want. No one has proof that they exist or dont

Actually, you're very, very wrong. He's provided evidence and proof against what followers of any God have said, yet all you say is "you don't know what you're talking about" or "this happens BECAUSE GOD SAYS SO!!11".

[theOperaGhost]

See...I don't even try to justify why I believe in God, because there is no way to...I don't even give a shit anymore. Kind of pointless to keep arguing about it. Where does it get anyone? Nowhere! People on one side of the debate are never going to see what the other side sees. If they do, then they are being "converted." And I know from past experience that atheists really don't like it when Christians push their beliefs on them (who would?). But I feel the same way about atheists trying to push Christians away from their beliefs.

As for souls...I don't really believe in them, but I don't have any idea...

[Falk 'Ace' Flyer]

See...I don't even try to justify why I believe in God, because there is no way to...I don't even give a shit anymore. Kind of pointless to keep arguing about it. Where does it get anyone? Nowhere! People on one side of the debate are never going to see what the other side sees. If they do, then they are being "converted." And I know from past experience that atheists really don't like it when Christians push their beliefs on them (who would?). But I feel the same way about atheists trying to push Christians away from their beliefs.

As for souls...I don't really believe in them, but I don't have any idea...

Very well said. I don't mean to attack anybody, but it's when people get extremely defensive that they begin to practically damn others to hell that gets me off. I don't expect you to justify why you think you're right, I expect you to justify if you think I'm wrong.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

See...I don't even try to justify why I believe in God, because there is no way to...I don't even give a shit anymore. . And I know from past experience that atheists really don't like it when Christians push their beliefs on them (who would?). But I feel the same way about atheists trying to push Christians away from their beliefs.



Yet with this inability to justify belief, many MANY christians feel they are entitled to act and treat others based on their beliefs. You, on the other hand, have actually been HONEST and admitted that the claims your faith makes on souls is UNPROVABLE. You're right; of course we don't want Christians to push their beliefs on us... mainly because we don't believe in their god to begin with... and his "morals".

As for atheists; we don't actually have any beliefs to "push". Atheist is just a label; it means you don't believe in god. Our actual MORALS and beliefs on OTHER things (like love, or family, etc.) are not BECAUSE of our atheism. We get these specific individual beliefs from ourselves, just like the religious do (yet they give their religion the credit where no credit is due).


In some ways I DO want to push any theists away from certain beliefs. Naturally I want them to stop persecuting homosexuals, indoctrinating their children, and trying to have their religion become the force behind government (hey, its happening up here too guys).


I just point out the facts, evidence, and REASON behind the conclusion that no god exists. It is up to YOU to decide whether you are still going to believe in the light of evidence or not. I can see you wavering on these issues because you have no DEFENSE for them. And that is perfectly fine; it shows you're coming to the understanding that at least you can admit to yourself that your beliefs can not be proven and are not supported by any evidence.


Oh, and I think Cindex mentioned atheism being a religion. NO. :P

It's the LACK of a belief in god. There is no Church of Atheism. It's just a word, to describe our opinion on the existence of god. He doesn't exist = atheist.

[The Batman]

The world is changing. There are many chrisitans who are becoming more accepting of others beliefs and the ones who still aren't are being persecuted by the church.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

The world is changing. There are many chrisitans who are becoming more accepting of others beliefs and the ones who still aren't are being persecuted by the church.

I'd like to see some proof of this. WE can provide of course all the historical persecution, and there is a lot of evidence that it is GROWING in america today, or at least not DECLINING like you say. What proof do you have that they have become more accepting? I know I'm never gonna see the Westborough Baptist Church accepting homosexuals (so don't worry) but even mainstream Christianity finds it sinful, wrong, and makes people feel HORRIBLE for something they did not choose. Until the religion as a WHOLE body is able to overcome its extremely DAMAGING principles... there isn't gonna be a lot of progress.

You see, the religion does NOT look "good" when you defend it by saying that although ALL this delusional, descriminatory, and repulsive behaviour is going away in some SMALL places. With a vast, loud spoken fundamentalist or prejudiced majority, the small percentage of "the actually good christians" doesn't make THEM go away or seem less harmful to society and progress.

[Perseus]

when did this become a religous debate?

[Hyper]

when did this become a religous debate?

Lal it exactly isn't yet but if I had to answer. When Jared and James started talking

To Canadian Man: I thought about it and I couldn't come up with a trait on me that I could honestly say has no connection to my experiences, upbringing, genetics.. I may be a kind person even though I've never been treated that way by almost anyone, but thats problably because thats how my parent is.

Yeah if I reflect on it and can bring you a example I can be confident in I'll post back in here.

Also Cindex.... If your implying that I'm stupid or simply don't know anything about the brain in general I assure you that you're very wrong.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

To Canadian Man: I thought about it and I couldn't come up with a trait on me that I could honestly say has no connection to my experiences, upbringing, genetics.. I may be a kind person even though I've never been treated that way by almost anyone, but thats problably because thats how my parent is.

Yeah if I reflect on it and can bring you a example I can be confident in I'll post back in here.
.

Thanks; remember... I only refute things that deserve to be refuted, which we can DEMONSTRATE to be false. For most atheists, if they were given real, concrete evidence that souls exist (with a lot of factual back up) then we would ACCEPT souls as truly existing. The same goes for god. However, no such proof or evidence has been provided.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't look for it! IF you believe in it, I'm sure you'd want your beliefs to be TRUE and valid. So if ANYONE has the evidence... come on in and show it by all means! :)

[Perseus]

I highly doubt anyone will want to argue with you because you will win, no matter if they have evidence. And souls exist. raaage

[Curthose93]

Who would have guess that a thread about spirituality ends up being "Religion- The Good, The Bad, The Ugly"? But everyone seems to have a good enough time doing it, so meh.....

Anyway, is anyone able to answer my question? Or do you just believe in 'souls' when you don't have any idea what they are supposed to be, beyond "your conscience"? What is the nature(or 'supernature'...?) of the soul that accept so blindly?

I highly doubt anyone will want to argue with you because you will win, no matter if they have evidence.

So, are you suggesting that evidence of souls actually DOES exist? If so, you should have presented it in that post. If not, then your post should never have been written.

Don't double post - Bobby

[Perseus]

no im just saying he can argue really well in what he believes

[ThatCanadianGuy]

no im just saying he can argue really well in what he believes

I may be able to argue well; but all of the things that I refute are for good reason. Its easy to refute nonsense, or things that are UNTRUE in the light of other contradicting evidence. EVEN I would concede defeat if I was given clear and undeniable proof of souls or a god.

[Falk 'Ace' Flyer]

"Jesus loves me, this I know, because the Bible tells me so!" See ThatCanadianGuy? Irrefutable proof. =P

[Perseus]

i know, i do it all the time lol

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Damn it... I guess I lose forever now :(

I can't stand up to that logic.

[The Batman]

Now you guys ARE mocking religion

[Falk 'Ace' Flyer]

Sorry. I revoke my previous statement, however my point still stands.

[Perseus]

Im sorry but thats just funny