Guns

[Requin]

Yes I know that there was one of these but i'd bring it up again after the recent horrible business of Jenifer Hudson's family and that little girl accidently shooting herself.
This is mainly focused on america as I think that is where the worst problems are.
But it doesn't have to be.

So any thoughts?

[Underground_Network]

Guns make the world go 'round. There's no point on hating or loving guns (in terms of the right to bear arms, not in terms of loving or hating guns themselves), as no matter what happens, we're better off with the right to bear arms than without it. I mean, if you want to change it to the right to arm bears, I'm fine with that, but still... Back on topic: If we eliminate this right, bad guys will still get their hands on guns and innocent people will not be able to defend themselves. If we keep this right, bad guys will have guns, but innocent people will be able to protect themselves as well. Its pretty plain and simple. Guns are guns. I for one like them. I wouldn't kill an innocent person with one, but joining the army or even joining law enforcement does interest me (and not for the sole reason of wielding a weapon). Guns aren't the most dangerous weapons, trust me. I would much rather be shot than hit/slashed with a katana or scimitar or other blade/sword.

[theOperaGhost]

I agree with Adam. Tragedy does happen, but if we lose the right to bear arms, the wrong people will still be able to get a hold of them, no matter what.

[Donkey]

England is better with guns than America tbh. We don't have them legal and gun crime is rare; we're more into knifes.

[byee]

Frankly, the right to arm bears sounds rather appealing. It would give them the right to defend themselves against the hunters who invade their turf to kill them for sport. It would level the playing field and give them a fighting chance to defend all that's theirs and their family's. And, it's Pro life! Aren't most NRA members conservative 'values' voters who are also Pro Life?

j/k, j/k.

[Requin]

Don't get me started on the NRA!
What a crappy organisation, how can they support guns. But of course as they say, "Guns don't kill people, people do"

[theOperaGhost]

I do say guns don't kill people, people kill people, because it's true. If guns didn't exist people would still be killing people. Guns only make it easier.

[Requin]

But surely. The gun helps, and would reduce so many deaths.
Here's Eddie Izzard's view - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KsN0FCXw914

[Whisper]

hM3j34i81Fk

guns arent the problem
It's the incompetent testosterone filled I'm the man idiots that own them

These are a few of the guns my family owns as outfitters (we probly have over 20 in total not including the 3 bows)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Iluminati/004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Iluminati/007.jpg

I've been around them my whole life
and I'll tell you now I trust guns completely, Its the person holding them I won't go anywhere near

[theOperaGhost]

I agree with Kodie...there has to be a person there to pull the trigger, you know.

[Requin]

But if they weren't there. They wouldn't have to pull the trigger. As there wouldn't be one.

[Whisper]

Ya umm in Canada there's very few gun related deaths because there aren't as many espically hand guns (in America Pandora's box so to speak has already been opened there's to many out to solve it by "removing")

So do you know what that means for Canadians? Knife related deaths and injurys in Canada are sky high
a few months ago a dude pulled out a knife and hacked a strangers head off then ate chunks on a greyhound bus


If it's not a gun it's a knife
If it's not a knife its a bat
if it's not a bat its a pipe
if it's not a pipe its a stick
etc...........


That's like solving STD transmission and teen pregnancy by only teaching abstinence

[The Batman]

Here's what I think...

The problem doesn't lie with the guns it's with the idiots carrying them(not everyone that carries a gun is an idiot). Now some people should never even hold a gun, but because of the gun laws anyone with money can go buy one. There needs to be stricter gun laws so dumb shit like this doesn't happen. I don't think anyone under the age of 12 should be allowed to use a gun just like ex-cons. Also they need to tag guns and have a requirement for like once a year gun owners have to report the guns they have in there houses and if they sell them they have to report it to the police that way these guns won't fall into the wrong hands. Oh yea I pretty much didn't read the other posts so if I reposted something sorry.

[Zephyr]

Guns are fine.
It's the people weilding them that you have to worry about it.

With proper training, certification and a proper criminal background check,
I'm okay with people having them.

I've never gotten to shoot one before,
But I'm thinking about having my dad teach me.
With living out on my own, being female and everything,
A gun would be good for defense purposes.
Especially since my county is pretty bad for crime
In the burglary and sex crimes categories.

[Antares]

It's not the gun, its the person behind it.
Guns don't shoot people themselves. It's kinda hard for inanmiate objects to become possessed too:P
But umm yea, if people cant handle guns how they are supposed to, then stop making them. IDK, GO BACK TO SWORDS I SAY!

[Sage]

GO BACK TO SWORDS I SAY!

En garde! Hyaaa!

To repeat what most people've said so far, I'll have to agree- Guns are just another means to the same end. As it was said well earlier, if there weren't guns we'd just use knives, if not knives then bats, and so on. I'm all for the right to bear arms, with proper regulations and such and such.

[CaptainObvious]

Anyone whose point of view on banning guns is "if you ban them, the criminals still get them but law-abiding people can't" isn't thinking things through. If guns are illegal, the only people who can carry are police. Therefore, the only people who can get them are police. Therefore, guns are not available in stores, in homes, are not sold anywhere... they are only kept in police installations and on police. Much tighter security. Very little of the illegal weaponry in the country comes from police diversion - almost none, I'd say.

Ban guns, and the only source you really have to worry about is smuggling. Difficult, but easier to deal with than trying to keep guns out of the hands of "criminals", when gun crimes are often committed by people who could've easily legally bought the guns - and often did, VTech being a good example.

At the very least, serious restrictions need to be put into place. The girl who killed herself with an Uzi, for example, should never have been allowed to handle a gun. 8 years old, are you kidding me?

As with everyone else, I agree that people kill people, not guns. But until we can police thoughts, I think making sure that people can't acquire purpose-built killing machines that can cause massive havoc with a minimum of skill or effort is a reasonable medium. Or, at the least, adding some restrictions (I'm thinking no automatic or semi-automatic rifles, no handguns, significantly tightened background and mental competency tests, minimum age of use equal to the minimum driving age in a state, etc.).

[Ironic Infidel In England]

I fully agree with the above post.

As to the if it wasn't a gun it's a...

A gun is FAR easier to kill with. It's built to kill. This makes it easier for people to kill with it. And in most murders, it's a crime of passion. Let's say your angry for a second before you get it under control. That's time to draw and shoot. Not time to pull a knife and stab unless you're right next to someone, and carrying one.

[Θάνατος]

Why is all you from the UK are still trying to take away our civil rights here in the US. We gained our I dependence from you over 200 years ago. You forgot to mention one thing though. The criminals and the police have the guns over there.

It is our right in the US Constitution to bear arms. Why do you think other countries are afraid to invade the US. They know we have our guns and know how to use them. I

Yeah it is a tragedy that someone gets killed with an Uzi. My question is this where the fuck were the parents and why didn't the gun have a trigger lock on it. See the parent or the owner of the gun are to blame not the gun.

Well I am glad that I have my right to bear arms.

[Ironic Infidel In England]

Why is all you from the UK are still trying to take away our civil rights here in the US. We gained our I dependence from you over 200 years ago. You forgot to mention one thing though. The criminals and the police have the guns over there.

It is our right in the US Constitution to bear arms. Why do you think other countries are afraid to invade the US. They know we have our guns and know how to use them.

Yeah it is a tragedy that someone gets killed with an Uzi. My question is this where the fuck were the parents and why didn't the gun have a trigger lock on it. See the parent or the owner of the gun are to blame not the gun.

Well I am glad that I have my right to bear arms.

I'm not trying to take away your "Civil rights". Why are some people so protective? Some things SHOULD NOT BE a right. (This is, of course, just my opinion.) We have an armed task force, for dealing with criminals. And yes, some criminals have gun, of course. But far fewer than in the US! Because they're harder to get hold of, by far, so opportunistic gun crimes are brought down. People are afraid to invade the US because of Nukes, not guns. No point invading if your contry will be blown to shit in an hour.

[Requin]

Why is all you from the UK are still trying to take away our civil rights here in the US. We gained our I dependence from you over 200 years ago. You forgot to mention one thing though. The criminals and the police have the guns over there.

It is our right in the US Constitution to bear arms. Why do you think other countries are afraid to invade the US. They know we have our guns and know how to use them. I

Yeah it is a tragedy that someone gets killed with an Uzi. My question is this where the fuck were the parents and why didn't the gun have a trigger lock on it. See the parent or the owner of the gun are to blame not the gun.

Well I am glad that I have my right to bear arms.
Your still bitter about that? I'm sorry I apologise for my ancestors dealings but lets be honest...us Brit's have pissed everybody off in this world, either we've invaded them, or we fucked them over in a battle.

But anyway, we're not trying to take away your civil rights. But there is this old argument, about if the constitution should be amended. Is it right that everyone can carry a gun? IF, there were no guns for civilians, the person who would be shooting someone with the gun, couldn't, because there aren't any. Does that make sense? I'm not saying that if there were no guns allowed for civilians, there wouldn't be any, because people will still be able to get them somehow, but it would help.

Oh and the reason nobody wants to invade america is very simple, they don't want to start another World War, no one does. But I don't know why I started this thread because you can argue against them, but the american people will never get rid of them, even if there told to.
That's what I think anyway.

[Callwaiting]

Thickheaded yuppies are why guns shouldn't be allowed in society. I don't mean they don't have a place - in wars/peacekeeping where they're actually necessary.
But people having guns just because they can makes me feel sick. 99% of these guns are treated as toys by their owners, I don't mean they're not careful with them, but most gun owners DON'T buy them to protect their family, they do it because they like the look of them and the feeling of power that comes with it.

I'm glad the average no-brained redneck in Australia finds it hard to come across a gun, because guns are not needed in society. Imagine you are a gun owner, fully legit and a robber breaks into your house. Hmmm. seeing as you have a gun that's more powerful than his knife, why don't you take his life? That's what guns do, give you that ultimate power over somebody that really is not needed nor wanted in our society.
And it isn't just robbers, sometimes its the kids that were bullies at school.

When guns are readily availible it just becomes a matter of time before something bad happens, as proven time and time again in the US.

[Sage]

I'm glad the average no-brained redneck in Australia finds it hard to come across a gun, because guns are not needed in society. Imagine you are a gun owner, fully legit and a robber breaks into your house. Hmmm. seeing as you have a gun that's more powerful than his knife, why don't you take his life? That's what guns do, give you that ultimate power over somebody that really is not needed nor wanted in our society.
And it isn't just robbers, sometimes its the kids that were bullies at school.

If someone is robbing your house, no matter what they're armed with, I think most people find it safe to assume they're there to cause you harm. Also, regarding kids at school, the vast majority of school shootings are caused by kid who already have a lot of serious issues and problems and shouldn't have access to a gun either way at their age.

Anyone whose point of view on banning guns is "if you ban them, the criminals still get them but law-abiding people can't" isn't thinking things through. If guns are illegal, the only people who can carry are police.

Yeah, that seems rather ideal to me. But you can't face the fact that there are already so many in circulation that taking all of them except ones used by the police would be a massive, unrealistic undertaking. Also, mind you, police officers can't show up at any given spot in a split second. If a clerk at a convenience store is being robbed, wouldn't he be better off with a gun in his hand than waiting for someone with a gun to show up?

[Whisper]

Anyone whose point of view on banning guns is "if you ban them, the criminals still get them but law-abiding people can't" isn't thinking things through. If guns are illegal, the only people who can carry are police. Therefore, the only people who can get them are police. Therefore, guns are not available in stores, in homes, are not sold anywhere... they are only kept in police installations and on police. Much tighter security. Very little of the illegal weaponry in the country comes from police diversion - almost none, I'd say.
First of all I'd like to say.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Dude the guns are ALREADY out the cats outta the bag were talking tens of millions already on the streets.
When there all considered illegal are all the gangs just going to turn them in?
What about reimbursement? The people that paid good money for there firearms are you going to give them every dime back? Your in a deficit with an economic recession...Can you even afford to?


Ban guns, and the only source you really have to worry about is smuggling. Difficult, but easier to deal with than trying to keep guns out of the hands of "criminals", when gun crimes are often committed by people who could've easily legally bought the guns - and often did, VTech being a good example.
Again your not following
Were not saying leave them in wall-mart
You have to jump through many hoops to get guns in Canada
You have to have gone through training courses in handling and proper safety etc....
And I don't know maybe don't sell a hand gun on a whim to an 18yr old Marlyn Manson wannabe

At the very least, serious restrictions need to be put into place. The girl who killed herself with an Uzi, for example, should never have been allowed to handle a gun. 8 years old, are you kidding me?
I completely agree with you on this in Canada you can't buy handguns or machine guns period
But your not grasping the scale
The sheer amount of fire arms already out on the streets
There needs to be a fuck of allot more done than passing a law
And then your fighting the American constitution.....you barley beat the south last time...
Not to mention Alaska.....1 in 3 have a fire arm I think was the stat....
We went there for a trade show and all the "men" were packing 45's
One guy took us into his basement the entire thing was a vault
he had over 5 thousand guns from hand guns, to rifles, to full auto machine guns

As with everyone else, I agree that people kill people, not guns. But until we can police thoughts, I think making sure that people can't acquire purpose-built killing machines that can cause massive havoc with a minimum of skill or effort is a reasonable medium. Or, at the least, adding some restrictions (I'm thinking no automatic or semi-automatic rifles, no handguns, significantly tightened background and mental competency tests, minimum age of use equal to the minimum driving age in a state, etc.).
I agree with that
But good luck passing it
and like I've said before
all this will stop is the accidents and the trigger happy
the gangs, the criminals, the rapists, etc...I GUARANTEE YOU will be packing
And you have to get passed the second amendment
and you have to figure out a plan to reimburse

In Canada its been strictly no handguns or machine guns etc... for along ass time
and every year we have an immunity day you can turn in any weapon registered or not, legal or not and the cops won't do a thing to you
a 90yr old lady turned in an RPG last year in Vancouver she'd been hiding it in her attic since the last world war

[theOperaGhost]

Anyone whose point of view on banning guns is "if you ban them, the criminals still get them but law-abiding people can't" isn't thinking things through. If guns are illegal, the only people who can carry are police. Therefore, the only people who can get them are police. Therefore, guns are not available in stores, in homes, are not sold anywhere... they are only kept in police installations and on police. Much tighter security. Very little of the illegal weaponry in the country comes from police diversion - almost none, I'd say.

Ban guns, and the only source you really have to worry about is smuggling. Difficult, but easier to deal with than trying to keep guns out of the hands of "criminals", when gun crimes are often committed by people who could've easily legally bought the guns - and often did, VTech being a good example.

At the very least, serious restrictions need to be put into place. The girl who killed herself with an Uzi, for example, should never have been allowed to handle a gun. 8 years old, are you kidding me?

As with everyone else, I agree that people kill people, not guns. But until we can police thoughts, I think making sure that people can't acquire purpose-built killing machines that can cause massive havoc with a minimum of skill or effort is a reasonable medium. Or, at the least, adding some restrictions (I'm thinking no automatic or semi-automatic rifles, no handguns, significantly tightened background and mental competency tests, minimum age of use equal to the minimum driving age in a state, etc.).

I still have to disagree with that. Drugs are illegal and people have absolutely no problem getting their hands on them. Why would guns be any different?

I do agree with you on the strict restrictions however. Guns are not for everyone and should definitely not be made available without some type of screening process beforehand.

[Avalikia]

I would highly be in favor of some sort of ammo license, similar to a driver's license, that you're required to have in order to buy or possess ammo. (Not a gun license because some people have things like antique guns they never shoot and that would complicate things a lot.) I see a lot of similarity there because both are potentially very dangerous if you don't know what you're doing, but can be a useful if you do. You're required to take classes and demonstrate your skills in order to get a driver's license, and I think that it's an equally good idea for people who use guns.

[Whisper]

We have a firearms liscence you need it to buy, own or operate ammo and firearms
Its a simple course really

[The Batman]

It's easy to say, "Oh lets ban all guns," but who can carry it out? How can you pick up millions of guns including the stolen and unlicensed ones? Really you think by making them illegal people won't get them. Drugs are illegal and yet people get it all the time. You can't just ban something and expect everyone to follow it. They aren't following any other laws so why would they start abiding by them now? If you ban guns the only people who will have them are the police and law breakers simple as that.

[Underground_Network]

There's actually an interpretation of the statement "the right to bear arms" to mean the right for military personnel to use guns, rather than for an individual (citizen) to use them. But at this point it doesn't matter. A nationwide gun ban would fuck the states. The Second American Revolution would come about. Gun crazy maniacs would fuck us all, and the world would be in even more turmoil than it currently is. Still a fan of banning guns?

They can't just take away the MILLIONS of guns on the streets. And the US isn't that bad a place. Look at Africa (and the Middle East) where gun lords are quickly becoming multimillionaires by supplying Africans with guns (and in most cases giving them guns not to defend themselves with, but to commit genocide [of innocent, unarmed people] with).

[Whisper]

Remember when america banned alcohol?
How'd that go for ya

[Techno Monster]

This is a tender issue, like Kodi implied, taking away guns is like Proabition.

[theOperaGhost]

Remember when america banned alcohol?
How'd that go for ya

Yay moonshine!!

Yeah, prohibition did not really work at...all...Alcohol was banned, but people just started making their own and saloons still sold it illegally. Prohibition was quite a time in America. Everyone was a criminal then...lol.

[Antares]

What would happen iffffffffffffffffff....
the government made gun maker companies halt all productions. cease all production and pay them a huge settlement. there would be no replacement parts made, etc.

Then what would happen?
People smuggle guns in or something...that wont last long because they have no real bullets :P

[theOperaGhost]

What would happen iffffffffffffffffff....
the government made gun maker companies halt all productions. cease all production and pay them a huge settlement. there would be no replacement parts made, etc.

Then what would happen?
People smuggle guns in or something...that wont last long because they have no real bullets :P

Bullets are NOT hard to make on your own. The quality may not be as good, but they would surely do the job.

[Callwaiting]

What would happen iffffffffffffffffff....
the government made gun maker companies halt all productions. cease all production and pay them a huge settlement. there would be no replacement parts made, etc.

Then what would happen?
People smuggle guns in or something...that wont last long because they have no real bullets :P

XD you're forgetting that most guns aren't made in the countries they're bought in.
I doubt you could get an overseas gun producer to lay off it's workers and ruin its company just by asking.

Plus even if this happened it would take about five years for people to have trouble finding ammo/gun parts, and knife crime would rise.

[Justwondering]

Guns dont kill people. People kill people. If we didnt have guns, we would find other means of killing people.

[Θάνατος]

Guns dont kill people. People kill people. If we didnt have guns, we would find other means of killing people.

That is a very true statement. We have been killing each other since the beginning of time with Cain and Abel.

[Callwaiting]

Guns dont kill people. People kill people. If we didnt have guns, we would find other means of killing people.

How about we give everyone a gun then, by your reasoning we should all be safe.
You think guns just appeared one day out of the blue? They were made for killing, they're a tool designed to kill something more effectively than a knife.

This means accidents are far more common, when's the last time you heard of someone accidentally stabbing themself repeatedly with a knife?

[Underground_Network]

If they banned guns, I have a friend who knows how to make guns out of the most random materials (even things like LEGO and Kinex) that can deliver a fatal blow, so banning guns wouldn't be effective, and if he goes all psychopath on us, people could die. Banning guns is impossible. The only option available to do what you want to do is to make a time machine, prevent guns (or even crossbows for that matter) from being invented and somehow managing to continue to prevent them from being invented as technology evolves.

[theOperaGhost]

Great post, Adam! I completely agree.

[Sporadica]

England is better with guns than America tbh. We don't have them legal and gun crime is rare; we're more into knifes.

Ya but the thing is scince u banned guns from private ownership the outlaws still have guns and ppl are now not able to defend themselves from ppl with knives

[theOperaGhost]

Old thread. :locked: